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More APCs And Helicopters As The Airspace Closes: The Latest Developments From The Ukraine
While the latest official development surrounding the Ukraine crisis is that in under two hours, or at 3pm, the UN Security council will meet to discuss the situation in Crimea, Censor.net, citing Christopher Miller, the editor of Kyiv Post, reported the following:
Russian vice-admiral declares war with Ukraine in Crimea, reports @censor_net. For real? Can he do that?http://t.co/eaU0LbGJgu
— Christopher Miller (@ChristopherJM) February 28, 2014
Below is the google translated story from Censor:
In Crimea, Black Sea Fleet commander of Russian Federation Alexander Vitko announced the beginning of the war with Ukraine. Such information TSN confirmed MP from the "homeland", the former chairman of the Mejlis of Crimean Tatar people Mustafa Cemil
According to him, on Thursday, February 27 in Sevastopol Vice Admiral Vitko gathered all the generals and said, "We start war with Ukraine. "
About the Jemilev meeting only became known today, February 28.
In addition, according to the deputy, the morning without permission border of Ukraine, trying to bypass finders crossed four helicopters from Anapa. Moreover, he noted that Ukraine is now Russia does not oppose, and Ukrainians are on the verge of very dramatic events.
"The only way out here, I think that we have the strength to impose emergency rule, bring our troops and take control of all state institutions," - said Cemil.
He asked about acting Ukrainian President empowered Commander of the Armed Forces, Alexander Turchinov.
"Now I'm with Turchynov said that what we have military units, the forces necessary to throw everything in the Crimea. Elsewhere us no threat yet, enter PE and throw under control. But again, there is concern that we provoke, that we may not have enough forces, "- stated the MP.
He believes Russia will not go to full-scale war, but "the country must defend their dignity, basic rights of its citizens."
"I constantly call and say: if Ukraine can not do something, let us at least a weapon," - said the ex- Head of Mejlis.
Moreover, he noted that the Crimean Tatars no sense to stand with machine guns and pistols against "armed to the teeth with the Russian army" which means "let the people to death."
Is this merely a provocation from the Tatar source, or a glimpse into the endgame? We will find out soon. In the meantime, here are some of the other more recent developments from the Ukraine:
- UKRAINE CITES RUSSIAN VIOLATIONS OF AIRSPACE, FLEET ACCORDS
- UKRAINE URGES RUSSIA TO RETURN MILITARY UNITS TO BASES
- UKRAINE ISSUES NOTE OF PROTEST TO RUSSIA OVER CRIMEA
- UKRAINE SAYS DIDN'T ASK RUSSIA TO HELP MAINTAIN CIVIL ORDER
Ukrainian international airline says it has cancelled flights to #Crimea because "airspace is closed" -Reuters
— LBCI News English (@LBCI_News_EN) February 28, 2014
BREAKING: AP in #Crimea spots convoy of Russian armored personnel carriers en route to capital http://t.co/BZhOPl2RHe pic.twitter.com/mjPeVQfCb9
— Haaretz.com (@haaretzcom) February 28, 2014
???, ??????? ???????? ?? ??????? ????????. 4 ???????. ????????????? pic.twitter.com/XdvmnlDuY5
— ????? ?????? (@oivshina) February 28, 2014
And more choppers:
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Looks like an assortment but pretty sure a number of these in the video:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50
If I were living in the Ukraine I'd be getting my Russian flag out of the closet.
....and all of the Russian fags out of the closet at the same time.
"Don't ask, don't tell".
Looks like some of these in the video as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28
Good eye, EB.
Or perhaps this and it's delivery system. But I think Poland and Germany better be more concerned about that one if they let the U.S. continue running this game.
When you are in retreat and as "rabid" and desperate in your thinking as the U.S. and NATO is at this point your friends become enemies and you are willing to sell out anyone to get what you want.
This is why John Kerry's statements yesterday were so revealing.
If I were CIA and NSA I'd be prepared to do anything to stop their paycheck providers at this point at any price! Let's hope that it falls from within because the rest of the American sheep are abject and clueless about what this means.
It's a police action! MIC needs another DMZ produced ASAP
And here's the "head on a stick" they keep reviving to tell us what may spark it. That desperate enough for you?!!!
Like I said previously.
We better pray for a coup in our own military to save our sorry asses.
Crimea is strategically valuable because of its location but not much else. The very north of the Ukraine is uninhabitable. Why not make the south with a whole legion of Russian troops that way.
West vs East round 12438 or wherever we are at through history.
Why it's like Zbigniew's wet-dream come true. Just another day of fun on The Grand Chessboard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
The Grand Chessboard is about to get rammed up Zbigniew's ass sideways. The guy is right up there with Fukuyama and his end of history crap.
humanitarian mission, in force
we are in a countdown towards a thermo-nuclear war
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gxggiIuVs_s
larouchepac.com/node/29800
LalalalaLaRoach.
Laughing my ass off.
The only way we could get into a war is if we were stupid enough to elect some moron like a community organizer to the WH, so that will never happen. Relax.
He's smarter than you. I seen that.
Boris, are you Rooskie or Ukrainey?
Which side you on?
Boris is from Georgia.
Just outside of Atlanta.
hell yeah time to load up on the snacks! this is REALITY TV.
those tires look flammable
Now this is how choppers roll in...take note Putin!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30QzJKCUekQ
seems like a good enough reason for the SPY to hit all time highs, and the NASDAQ to hit 14 year hights while gold is slammed lower. WTF???
Oh wow, a UNSC meeting. Guess who is permanent member? Guess which other permanent member will support the permanent member?
I rode a tank, held a General's rank. When the Blitzkrieg raged, and the bodies stank.Please to meet you, hope you guess my name.
it seems to me the us and eu started this pro-western thing via subversion, and took over the ant-corruption riots to steal political power.
I smell a dicktaster and his Kohn-head companion acting on behalf of banksters.
No no no.
John Kerry spotted flying in...
First off, the government in Ukraine is illegitimate.. its basicly mob rule, with Southern and Eastern and Crimea regions do not regocnise its authority.... Secondly nationalists from LVOV didn't ask for Russias help, but the South, East and Crimea regions did and are continuously asking for it... So enough with the propoganda and I hope KIEV IS LIBERATED FROM THE NATIONALISTS, BANDERAS, and RIGHT SECTOR extremists, and KIEV THE MOTHER OF ALL RUSSIAN CITIES, WHERE Rus was baptised into orthodoxy under unites with its homeland.. and the nationalists sponsored by the west can fuck off. Russia, Ukraine, Belarussia and Kazahkstan are brothers forever!
Sashko
so... ummm... join the EU where everything is sunshine and puppie farts? explain, please.
No. Unite Russia, Belarussia and Ukraine as one single nationa (and Kazhakstan too if they are down) Kiev is where "Rus" (the name of the country when Russia, Ukraine and Belarussia where all United) was baptised into orthodoxy.. Then later on the people in Galicia (Lliv) got conquered by the Austro-Hungarian empired and forced to switch to Catholicism or die.. thats how Grecko-Catholics came into being.. orthodox church and service but under the Pope's Rule. Then World war one came Austria-Hungary got destroyed, broke apart.. and the free nation of Western Ukraine (Lliv) was formed. The people who lived there by this forgot that they were once orthodox and part of Rus (their borthers). Then the communist JEW Lenin came to power killed the orthodox Czars.. and conquered western Ukraine back and made part of the USSR. Then world war 2 broke out.. and the city of Lliv took the side of Hitler under their leader Stepan Bandera against the commies... Now the USA is breeding and financing the wrong type of nationalism there as you can see they were originally orthodox and part of Russia now they are nationalist and "supposedly a different people" (they just forgot their history). So there you go now you know why a lot of us believe that we should be united as one nation again.
pretty dramatic turn of events. bottom line is that each nation should remain soveriegn in absence of outside interventions. this goes for financing protest and violence campaigns to overthrow governments. to each is own is what i always say.
Here is knowledgable analysis...
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/ukrainian-nationalism-its-root...
Read the rest of Saker blog for more followup and current..
World is absolutely falling apart. Gold and silver are down. Silver is WAY down. That makes sense. Every US index is up. The VIX seems low considering how high tensions are at this time.
Hah.
Winter's over, Europe doesn't need Russian nat gas!
Ukraine will be a banker's paradise after they start combing through the rubble.
Combined Cycle Natural Gas Electrical generation facilities...
Private enterprises don't spend billions of dollars to build pipelines to sell their BTUs only 3 months a year.
There's a high season and a low season, but a NO season brings out the Zombie Apocalypse in urban centers.
I swear, if I have to start using a /sarc tag each freakin time ...
Sorry, I got distracted couldn't hear the sarc over the sound of ENTIRE CONVOYS OF DIESEL ENGINES...
The Ukranian armed forces are no joke. Serious biz. But Russia wants Crimea and it already has it. That's done. Now the oil pipelines, well that's getting a lot deeper (hotter).
The sad thing is that Ukraine gave up it's nukes in the 90s (lots of them, which in and of itself was good), and now all current and aspiring nukers are going to say, "See? Get rid of em and just hang up a big sign, Welcome all Imperial Invasions".
I still think this place is bleaker than the Crimea!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAZyirfvE_s&list=UU-Y8tHCwNCHYzGL8iw5IOXA&feature=c4-overview
Kosovo has been taken from Serbia by force of NATO arms.
Crimea is being reunited with Russia.
All reports are unconfirmed. Mr.s M and I have been working together for several hours now on a post trying to confirm the truth and we do not "tweet". Russians seem to be most concerned about the Turks getting involved and I guess the Chechens are now pissed off at Saudi Arabia. Everyone should know Russians and the Turks do not get along at all. I'm not sure about the Chechen thing as that could have been an error in translation. This is a lot of work to try to translate all of this shit. I can say this much, Russians and Ukrainians are not pissed at one another at this point.
There are a great deal of shifting alliances in that part of the world where Mr.s M is from.(yes, I have been there) Even she does not know, so there is no way Western media could know what is going on. I like some sort of order as all Americans do. By this afternoon, who hates who could change. We can't apply American standards and we need our military out of there ASAP. Obama is not popular in the region. Sometimes it is better to just better to back off and mind your own business when there are that many cultures mixed together.
I've spent a good deal of time in Russia, and much of it outside Moscow. The Russian people do not dislike Ukrainians at all. SO much inter marriage, and so many have worked in each others countries. Most speak each others language. Do not judge Ukraine by the western part alone. That part is anti Russian, and always has been. They are more Polish than Russian. The west is using them in an attempt to grab the whole Ukraine for NATO. Anyone saying different is either a fool, or a liar. Any informed person knows this, but if you watch western media, you are not informed. I have said before, this is the "end game" against Russia, NATO will not settle for anything but the whole Ukraine, and Russia will go to war to prevent this. Russia has nukes, plenty of them, so this is not Iraq or Serbia, a false move could begin some bad events. Are all our lives worth NATO march to the east, of Germany's final dream of conquering and owning Ukraine? They tried twice by invasion, now they plan to get it via the EU and west Ukrainian stooges. Germany never changes, they have always grasped to take everything and they will continue. Only armed force has ever stopped Germans when they go on the march. EU is a front, it is just the civilian face of the NATO war machine, which is the German Army and it's USA allies.
That is the most eloquent and beautifully written explanation of our current global situation I have ever read. You are a scholar and a gentleman and may your soul be rewarded with riches beyond comprehension for all eternity. Where were you educated because I am enrolling.
I've never been complemented like that before! If I have any knowledge of the world, it is self taught through reading, and life experience. I can't claim any credentials from universities, I have none.
Charles is correct. Your posts are some of the best out there on ZH Jack. Don't let it go to your head though or I'll take and drown you in Gluek on Mille Lacs.
We are a pack of Viking lutfisk eaters up here on Lake Superiors shores! Our Scandinavian relatives had to pick the closest thing to Norway and Sweden, and they found it in NE Minnesota!
It's not the German Army anymore. It's the Anglo-American war machine of which NATO is a part. The Americans are not "allies". They are the conquerors and many of the Germans know it. The Germans are not so anxious to fight in wars of conquest as they once were 70 years ago.
NATOs march anywhere requires fuel.
Remember how they corrupted the UN resolution in Libya after it became clear all those sorties they were flying for 6 months were paying $125/barrel Brent -- so they had a meeting and decided that "protecting civilians" meant bombing purely defensive Gadaffi emplacements that were no threat to civilians.
Bottom line -- oil forced their hand. Russia sends 6 million bpd to Europe. They won't be sending it if it fuels a war against Russian troops -- and sportsfans, there is nowhere else you can get 6 million bpd.
and just to add why I believe we should all be one nation (i'm from Ukraine)... Russia, Belarussia and Ukraine as one single nationa (and Kazhakstan too if they are down) Kiev is where "Rus" (the name of the country when Russia, Ukraine and Belarussia where all United) was baptised into orthodoxy.. Then later on the people in Galicia (Lliv) got conquered by Poland and the Austro-Hungarian empired and forced to switch to Catholicism or die.. thats how Grecko-Catholics came into being.. orthodox church and service but under the Pope's Rule. Then World war one came Austria-Hungary got destroyed, broke apart.. and the free nation of Western Ukraine (Lliv) was formed. The people who lived there by this forgot that they were once orthodox and part of Rus (their borthers). Then the communist JEW Lenin came to power killed the orthodox Czars.. and conquered western Ukraine back and made part of the USSR. Then world war 2 broke out.. and the city of Lliv took the side of Hitler under their leader Stepan Bandera against the commies... Now the USA is breeding and financing the wrong type of nationalism there as you can see they were originally orthodox and part of Russia now they are nationalist and "supposedly a different people" (they just forgot their history). So there you go now you know why a lot of us believe that we should be united as one nation again.
Erdogan surely could use a diversion from the trouble he is in. And he has been dreaming of restoring the Ottoman empire for a long time. His personal wet dream.
I am sure the Armenians , Kurds and Greeks would LOVE the idea of Erdogan getting involved in a WAR WITH RUSSIA.
I would guess there's a lot of miscommunication going on. People don't realize how often they use slang terms that don't make any sense when translated. I could say Obama is a cool guy. It gets translated as cold, which is the exact opposite of what I meant. The famous "we will bury you" comment was a misunderstanding. That's a common phrase meaning we will outlive you; we will be there to attend your funeral. Saying you'll start a war might be a common Russian phrase. Even in English, we have things like war on drugs, war on poverty, war on prosperity, war on the middle class. Someone could easily translate that in a way that makes it sound like a bunch of thugs in army gear will kick down your door and kill your dog over some marijuana......
The US hasn't had to face a foe that comes anywhere near its military capability in a very long time. June, 1944 spring to mind.
I'm not saying Russia's forces match up well with ours, neither am I saying that they don't.
My only point is that Russian confidence is growing, it isn't resource-dependent on foreign sources, it has home field advantage, and the disparity between US/NATO forces and those of Russia is nowhere near the mismatch that we've seen vs. Third World enemies, 2002-2014.
Add in the corrosion caused by US and NATO inclinations to use their militaries as petri dishes for bizarre and morally questionable social engineering experiments and I'd wager that no one in the West feels much confidence about confronting Russia over Ukraine.
Western miscalculation, foolish thinking, and rampant hubris are biting them squarely in the bum.
Re: one in the West
I'm pretty sure nobody is expecting that the Germans would be welcomed as liberators in the Ukraine.
The Russians are just making sure the various ethnic groups in the Ukraine remember that Russians are part of the mix. When people start killing each other because of the alignment of their eyebrows the Russian eyebrows will be defended.
Breaking News: John Kerry on his way in to save the day!!!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Lego_helicopter.jpg
WW3 sounds expensive.
Big-MIC, the ultimate "Keynesian" stimulus program.
I'll have a quarter-megaton with cheese, please.
So remember how Hitler went ballistic on Poland after the Olympics? History repeats itself.
-Financial Meltdown begets
-depression begets
-Fascism(in US and Russia now)begets
-Wars to boost political popularity and obfuscate the political and wealthy classes run off with everything not nailed to the floor
So remember how Hitler went ballistic on Poland after the Olympics? History repeats itself.
-Financial Meltdown begets
-depression begets
-Fascism(in US and Russia now)begets
-Wars to boost political popularity and obfuscate the political and wealthy classes run off with everything not nailed to the floor
SUCK IT BARRY!!!!!
sir, you're going to have to move your apc OUT of the handicapped parking area or we will be forced to tow it. lulz
I'm pretty sure the Repo guys in Ukraine are still using mules to tow things, also they protect themselves with battle axes instead of tasers. Pretty sure there is a decent google image somewhere.
I heard this guy from the Kiev post, he used to work as a reporter for the Pioneer Press in St. Paul Minnesota. You might wonder how he is in Ukraine publishing a paper. Well, of course you know he is a State Department Plant, he writes what Washington tells him to. Anyways, Minnesota Public Radio had him on this mornings news show for an hour with some other hacks from various US universites. I can tell you from listening to him for a full hour that he works for the US State Department, and he is a propaganda agent for that institution. He is in Ukraine to publish official USA propaganda. His take on the real situation is that most Russian Ukrainians are fully in support of the Kiev revolutionary government and, in Crimea the majorty Russian population is pro Ukrainian revolutionary government. He claims Putin is going to shoot them for their disloyalty unless the UN steps in with peace keepers to allow the revolution in Kiev to send forces to save them.
I have never heard such a complete fuck head. He is paid by the USG to run a propaganda outlet in Kiev, his lies are totally transparent, he does not even try to hide that he is a liar, and that he prints his paper from the script the State Department sends him. He is paid by the USG, your tax dollars at work. besides, he is stupid to boot, from listening to him ramble propaganda talking points and lies, he must have the IQ of a frog. Or, he simply says garbage in return for the tax dollars that are paid to him.
I have heard enough lies about this revolution. Let the West Ukraine alone and absorb them into the EU and send NATO forces and missiles to protect them, let them take IMF loans and follow EU austerity plans, let them shut down all industry and sell their farm land to corporations, that is fine with me. Give them what they want.
But, if one of them enters East or South Ukraine or Crimea and trys to conquer those places, shoot them at the border. I see people in Crimea are already at the airports and train stations ready to intercept the USA funded revolutionaries as the USA and EU pay for their travel to spreard their power to these places. I suggest they stay home, any attempt to conquer people who don't want you could end badly for you. So forget that 30 Euro a day pay from EU and stay home, get a job and live your life in peace. If there is war, it is those fools who will cause it, prodded by the west to try and spread their power to the east.
Wow, I must have shut off MPR just in time this morning.
I don't know what Putin is planning to do, but despite our MSM/State Department's PR campaign, he isn't crazy. Oh, he isn't what GWB claimed he saw in Putin's soul, mind you. Putin is "former KGB," if there could possibly be such a thing. Let's have no illusions. But he isn't nuts.
So of course he's going to put up impregnable defenses around his strategic interests, and dare any Svoboda or Pravy Sektor skinhead militia to try any little thing. Ukraine's a sovereign nation with the rule of law, right? Then you can't have coups d'etat sponsored by foreign powers and call that legitimate, and once it's not legitimate then you're perfectly justified to defend what's yours until the dust settles. And then we'll just see who's serious about sovereignty and getting stuff done. And, by the way, there are natural gas pipelines from Russia to Europe through Belarus and Latvia, as well.
+1 swmnguy. If you shut off MPR then you wouldn't have had to listen to any of the crap Dayton comes up with.
And how exactly does he envisages the UN sending in peace keepers while Russia is permanent member of the UNSC with veto power? Oh never mind, you already said he has the IQ of a frog :-)
Agree all you said
Kiev post is terrible one sided propaganda lies
I get the feeling the street thugs and criminals in power in Kiev do not have long. Put simply, they are an embarassment to this perpetual (and of course untruthful) notion of benign Western democratic influence. The EU/US have paid, fed & armed them to overthrow what turned out to be an almost spineless administration, which was ironic itself because the MSM kept trying to portray Yanukovich as some sort of iron fisted dictator! Now its time for the puppet masters to throw their little running dogs in Kiev under a giant bus. I wouldnt be surprised if the Ukrainian military and reconstituted police forces enter the scene and send Right Sector et al packing back to their breeding grounds in western Ukraine. Then some weedy neoliberal undertaker (probably Yatsenyuk, Nuland''s favourite boy) can start the process of truly shackling Ukrainians into perpetual debt slavery. I doubt the Southern & Eastern regions will put up with this which will lead to the breakup of the country, peacefully or violently who can really tell.
Another reference to MPR lol. We ought to meet up and have lunch at Kramarczuk’s one day. That place is great as I am sure you already know. We always take our transient eastern European visitors there and they really seem to like the restuarant side. I like the NOT chilled 7% Baltica but they are not giving it away. It is still about the best food you can get for a reasonable price near downtown Minneapolis and it is pretty easy to get to relatively speaking.
Some things never get old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFvxqQTh3m4
...And the bear says, "I'm starting to think you don't really come here for the hunting, do you?"
Urainskaya Pravda (28 ??????? 2014, 17:43) : Russian military planes landing in Crimea:
translation: Russian airplanes are landing in Crimea from the direction of Russia, and a column of APCs is heading from the east toward Simferopol. There are reports of at least 5 large IL-76 planes landing in the district of the military airfield in the town of Gvardeyskoye.
Various sources are reporting that a column of 10 Russian APCs is heading from Sevastopol toward Simfereopol.
Interfax Ukraine reports that all air traffic is halted at the Belbek Airport in Sevastopol due to the seizure of the landing strip by unknown persons.
“There are about 400 people now in the Belbek airport. They have occpuied the landing strip and any movement of planes is stopped,” said a source.
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
That's "into" not "all" . . . rode the 600.
Not if you bother to read the first few lines of the poem. I'll save you from having to expend effort to look it up; I wrote them in my comment above.
The president of Ukraine may be a crook, but he was elected.
Neo-NAZIs backed by US and EU need to stand down or be forced down.
Ukraine is in Russia's sphere of influence; the Russians should oversee transition to elections and guarantee Rights until Ukraine government is fixed.
US, EU stay OUT. Let Ukraine fix their government, let Russia defend its military bases.
Russia is a permanant UN Security Council member and can veto any decision..
So this is bullish for the caterer, and a horse and pony show for others
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=146
'The file you have requested is not currently available.
Please check your URL or try again later.
We apologize for the inconvenience.'
Ok, who hacked the Navy Status page?
So, a Ukranian separatist's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who heard Russia declare war on Ukraine at 31 flavors last night.
Good to know!
/snark
Seriously, though- thank you for the translation.
Heard it from a friend who...
heard it from a friend who...
Pre-WWII, and before the invasion of Russia, Stalin and Hitler established spheres of influence where each would act without triggering a reaction from the other. This happened post-WWII in Yalta and Tehran between Stalin, Churchill and Roosevelt. Looks like it's happening again. If Russia gets the the Ukraine, or at least part of it, what do we get? Detroit?
this is nothing some old rusted flacid choppers is all.
soros rothschild winning good for all.
soon my freedom lovin friends.
lovers of the anus your ukraine legal fun time has cum.
the innocent people of ukraine will be able to engage in homosexual activities in the street.
gay marriage in all churches.
gays can adopt kids and homosexualist haters will be put in prisons.
what ever happens the cia and soros will protect the rights of the weak jewish types and the sodomites.
people of ukraine your money is gone,your gold is gone your sovreign wealth funds have been reset to zero.
butt rejoice you can soon fuck men and some boys in the shitter.
free dumb fuckers
I see those helicopters are gunships. I counted quite a few. This could be a squadron stationed with the Russian Navy in Crimea. Or it could be new squadrons flying in. Only Russia and NATO intelligence knows for sure. I will hazard a guess, with what knowledge I have of the history involved. That guess is that Russia is fully prepared to fight if either NATO or Kiev move forces on Crimea. There is a point beyond which Russia will retreat no further, we are at that point right now, today. If this goes south fast, it will be because NATO wants Crimea. Left alone, Crimea will vote for more independence from Kiev, maybe even an independent state. This is the game the USA is good at, see Yugoslavia break up, or the taking apart of Serbia. Now Russia has all the cards in Crimea to seperate it into a pro Russian state. If they are like the USA, they will carry through with it. After that, Karkov and other Eastern cities will decide what their next move will be.
Just a thought of mine, could be totally wrong, but it is a hunch I am playing. Why does Russia feel it no longer will surrender to NATO march east? Why does Putin feel more secure to act in Russia interests, when NATO threatens them with military action? I have noticed that ever since Russia deployed the S-400 and soon to arrive S-500 anti air systems, supported and protected by the brand new TOR M2 equipped with the latest version of it's missile batteries, ever since these took over Russian air defenses, Putin has grown a backbone. Perhaps these missiles really do function as advertized.
Then those would be the first missiles to function as advertized in the history of the world!
US Navy Air to Air Missiles in the air war over North Vietnam were a joke. Many times the pilot pressed the button and the missiles just dropped off into the rice fields or sea. They had to emergency fit automatic cannon to counter the Mig-21's flown by North Vietnam. But, the missile developers still cashed their huge checks from the USA taxpayers. That's how it works.
Jack fwiw, I think the AA missiles, and shore-to-ships are a major part of it. I've heard claims about the stealthiness of the newer Russian subs which, if even partly true, would truly up the cost of any nato effort.
As I pointed out elsewhere, if NATO absolutely deployed everything completely in its arsenal against Russian positions in Ukraine, it's not that they wouldn't eventually win, in what would be qute the unfair fight - but first, the costs would be high enough that it would greatly impact the American ability to play global policeman or threaten China down the road, but more importantly, if it got that out of control, it would not stay conventional.
Russia would certainly not fight the war NATO would expect them to, in any event.
And the newest Russian fighter bombers are better than anything NATO has. Period.
I don't think it will come to this. Even Russia may prefer Ukraine's integrity to a great deal of low level, ongoing fuckery to its west. It wants stability but the naval base i non-negotiable, and everyone knows they'd go hot over it.
Greater autonomy for Crimea, and maybe an autonomous Tatar area could help diffuse things, maybe, but the wild card here isn't Putin, despite the claims of the 'Putin is the new Hitler' shills - the danger is the aggressively expansive NATO and the reckless influence of the chickenhawk neocons.
The Global Banking Empire certainly wants to be able to rape and pillage all of Ukraine, and much of the western media is obediently painting Putin as the aggressor, but they know that the line has been drawn, many of the people of the Crimea want no part of the Thugocracy which installed itself in Kiev, and not only does NATO have no business preventing self-determination in Crimea, if it tries to impose its will, it is going to get a fight that, no matter what, will be incredibly costly.
I just don't know how crazy the people pulling the strings of NATO really are. We can all guess what the banks would love to see happen.
j/m/2/c
Johnny. It is official Russian defense policy to make first use of tactical nuclear weapons on any conventional forces that enter onto Russian territory that Russian conventional forces are unable to expel. This would not hold true for fighting on Ukraine soil or Crimea, but it does allow Russia a safe base to operate from.
"Why does Russia feel it no longer will surrender to NATO march east?"
Because there is nothing left to surrender. Crimea is the naval base of Russia since Peter the Great times
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_campaigns_%281695%E2%80%9396%29
You answered your own question. Ukraine is Russia. That's how the Russians look at Ukraine.
War with Russia is nothing NATO wants any part of. NO NATO country, including the US, has been involved in a serious, I mean SERIOUS, ground war with a modern standing army since WWII. Losing to Vietcong or Taliban or Al Sadr is one thing, taking on a standing army that can match your technological edge 1:1 is a whooooole nother can of ugly. AND they have home field advantage? Pffffff....
Let's all just take a deep breath and calm down. At best the West will jawbone to back an insurgency. If Putin is smart he'll say "okay, two can play," and he'll have his spymasters hook up with Mexican drug cartels and start a Mexican armed insurgency in the Southwestern US aimed at splitting it off from the US.
Then we see who flinches first. Look, we're already blinking. This is over before it's even begun.
Interesting point Jack and nice posts as usual. Perhaps Putin looked at western finances and decided to go bold.
Bonzo: Sir, I am quite sure Ukraine is NOT Russia and even the language is somewhat different. They are like sisters in a way but they are not the same.
I do believe Eu and USA finances have played a part in givng backbone to Russia's leadership. Putin knows, via intelligence, just how fucked the EU and USA economies are. Russia is not rich, but it is stable and well funded, plenty of capital reserves, gold and mass energy stores. Plus all the minerals known to man and some very good farm land. Along with unlimited fresh water and forests. Were I a young investor, going long Russia could be part of any longer term investment portfolio.
" Putin knows, via intelligence, just how fucked the EU and USA economies are."
Jack, Putin does all of the above but I would hazard a guess which is, if we bloody amateurs can see the South EU i.e. the PIIGS then it doesn't take a genious to figure that out. Out of the PIIGS include Cyprus. We also know that the West hasn't got much of a support from the Orthodox Countries, Greece and Cyprus which were Royally Fucked of late, financially. Are the Greeks, Cypriots and Mainland Greeks going to support ANY hostilities in Crimea?
You only have to look at History to make sure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea_War
You only have to look at the right side on the "STRENGTH" table to see the opposing sides.
French, English, Turks, Sardinians on one and Opposite Russians, Bulgarians, Serbian Montenegrons and Greeks.
Now I don't believe that the TPTB are ignorant of these facts and the LOYALTIES CONCERNED.
Sir, reread my post again a bit more carefully. I did SPECIFICALLY stress the RUSSIAN notion of Ukraine.
Massive troop convoys with APC and maybe tanks. Sounds like military exercises within the US over the last year. Are police department and fire departments also in coordination?
What the hell is tater sauce?
there is a tatar minority living in Crimea (actually they are the original natives of Crimea)
they're pretty far from Tatarstan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatarstan
But yeah, they definitely don't want to be folded into Russia. I have to wonder though how much they want to be controlled by Kiev. I don't know, but if Crimea breaks off, there's a good argument to be made that they will have to allow the Tatars to have their own state as well. At least, that would seem to be consistent and fair.
Not to paint all Muslims with a broad brush, but I think you can count on car bombings, etc. etc. in the Tatar areas if things go south.
It won't, of course, necessarily be the Tatars doing it. You'd figure the CIA or Saudis would be happy to spread their love in Crimea.
Man, I wish all these people the best. They are absolutely just pawns in the game. Primarily NATO's doing... Ivan has been playing defense for the most part since Gorbachev, despite all the NATO expansion and anti-missile batteries and the NGOs trying to detabilize Russia itself... but Ivan has to draw the line at the Crimea.
Is there a statesman in the West who would or could diffuse this, and arrange for some kind of peaceful rapprochement? I can't think of one, and I'm cynical enough to think the Global Banking Empire would love a splendid little war, or even a big one.
Unite Russia, Belarussia and Ukraine as one single nationa (and Kazhakstan too if they are down) Kiev is where "Rus" (the name of the country when Russia, Ukraine and Belarussia where all United) was baptised into orthodoxy.. Then later on the people in Galicia (Lliv) got conquered by the Austro-Hungarian empired and forced to switch to Catholicism or die.. thats how Grecko-Catholics came into being.. orthodox church and service but under the Pope's Rule. Then World war one came Austria-Hungary got destroyed, broke apart.. and the free nation of Western Ukraine (Lliv) was formed. The people who lived there by this forgot that they were once orthodox and part of Rus (their borthers). Then the communist JEW Lenin came to power killed the orthodox Czars.. and conquered western Ukraine back and made part of the USSR. Then world war 2 broke out.. and the city of Lliv took the side of Hitler under their leader Stepan Bandera against the commies...Then the Soviet Union broke apart and thanks to the jew LENIN (he created Ukraine as its own Region) we now had different countires like Ukraine that became seperate from Russia.. Now the USA is breeding and financing the wrong type of nationalism there as you can see they were originally orthodox and part of Russia now they are nationalist and "supposedly a different people" (they just forgot their history). So there you go now you know why a lot of us believe that we should be united as one nation again.
Belorussians will not wish to unite with western ukrain because they know that nationalists and neo-nazis are in control there (Lviv city comes to mind first and most).
It was well known even during soviet union era
not if we remind them of their history (convert peacefully), stop the west from financing the neo-nazi nationalism... and if all esle fails get rid of the neo-nazis who resist.
Kerry and his envoy on way to the border..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8CDuAoWXs
It's very hard to an interview this way. There were not as many questions asked as I would have liked but she is slower in typing English than I am which is fine because I can't type cyrillic at all. I needled her a bit and I needled us as you will see.:-) She always asks me what I want her to say. WOMAN, that would defeat the purpose! You say what you want to say lady. I will never edit her. We are lucky we got what we did here for her writing in English. I think she hit the proverbial nail on the head. She knows full well it is going to end up on ZeroHedge and Russians do not like posting on a site that is not Russian. Hmm, woman? We have been married for ten years and have two children together, would you care to comment on ZeroHedge on your own? No. That is just the way Russians are and Ukrainians are just about the same way.
I like that she gives me the middle finger once in a while and she means it.
http://www.boatingaccidentnews.com/moar-ukraine-and-russia-and-the-cia/
I am Long Mercs in Ukraine.
Ok...fewer choppers then the invasion of one village in Apocalypse Now...
Is our President and Vice-President going to do anything? I guess he was serious about diminishing our imfluence in the world. You know what we should do? Start boycotting all of the institutions, companies and people who elected Obama! Screw all of them who elected him! Including the RNC and the entire left. I watching organizations like the American Friends Service Committee!
This could be 'it'.
Purchasing Poppy at Taliban +1 & BS ROE's is expensive. Costs $ too.