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Guest Post: Liberty Movement Rising
Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt-Market.com,
"Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine
The label of “fringe” is a common one used by statists, bureaucrats and paid shills in order to marginalize those who would stand against government corruption. The primary assertion being sold is that the “majority” joyously supports the establishment; and the majority, of course, is always right.
The liberty movement, which is a collection of numerous freedom organizations and political activists brought together by a shared philosophical bond, has been accused of “fringe” status for quite some time. With corporatist dominance over the mainstream media for decades backing an elitist machine in Washington and a global banking cartel footing the bill with money created from thin air, any such accusation can be made to seem “real” to those who are unaware.
The problem has always been a matter of physical action giving rise to an acknowledgment of numbers.
We have all heard the old story of the debate within the ancient Roman government over the idea of forcing the slave population to wear distinct armbands so that they could be more easily identified among the regular population. The concept was rejected on the realization that if the slaves were given a visual confirmation of their considerable numbers and strength, they would be encouraged to revolt against the Roman tyrants. That is to say, as long as the slaves felt isolated, they would remain apathetic and powerless. Of course, that was not always the case. Sometimes, a small group would stand up despite their supposed isolation, and the rest of the world, wide-eyed and astonished, would take notice.
The liberty movement has just experienced one of its first great moments of realization and empowerment in Clark County, Nev., and millions of past naysayers have been shell-shocked.
I covered my views in detail on the Bundy Ranch saga in Nevada in my article “Real Americans Are Ready To Snap,” amid the usual choir of disinformation agents and nihilists desperate to convince Web audiences that the liberty movement would do nothing to stop the Bureau of Land Management’s militant assault on Cliven Bundy’s cattle farm. This assault included hundreds of Federal agents, helicopters, contractors hired essentially as cattle rustlers and even teams of snipers.
The statists and socialists were certainly out in force to misrepresent the Bundy issue and frighten anyone who might consider taking a stand for the family. The Southern Poverty Law Center, not surprisingly, was hard at work spreading lies and disinformation about the confrontation in Nevada, painting a picture of fractured patriot groups and militiamen with “little training” going to face unstoppable Federal BLM agents and likely “ending up dead.” The SPLC insinuated that the movement was ineffective and in over its head.
The reality was much the opposite. Liberty groups arrived in droves and were staunchly unified — not by a centralized leadership, but in defense of the basic moral principles outlined in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. Sources on the ground at the Bundy ranching operation relayed to me that at least 1,000 activists and militia members arrived over the weekend, with many more on the way. This one event proved certain points:
- The liberty movement is not afraid to put itself in harm’s way for the right cause — even if this means facing off against highly armed government thugs.
- The liberty movement has the ability to field a response team or even an army anywhere in the country at any time within a couple of days.
- The liberty movement has the ability to change the course of events, even to the point of removing Federal agents from a region who are acting in an unConstitutional manner.
- The Federal government is not invincible, nor is it unfazed by liberty movement opposition. They worry about our strength and ability.
Over the past weekend, we witnessed the true influence of the liberty movement. As thousands of activists and militia arrived in the area, the BLM finally began to understand what it was facing. The government agency that has been terrorized farming communities throughout the West for years, the agency armed with military-grade weaponry and hundreds of agents, ran away, as freedom fighters descended on the region.
Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval and Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie, two politicians who were deathly silent during the beginning of the Federal incursion on the Bundy ranch, have now suddenly become vocal in defense of Nevada ranchers against the BLM. It’s amazing how “inspired” politicians can become to do the right thing when they see an army of liberty activists marching against tyranny in their own backyard.
Not only was the BLM forced to remove itself from the area, but it was also forced to relinquish all the cattle it had stolen from Bundy over the course of the past week. Here, liberty groups close in on the cattle holding pens of the BLM and take back Bundy’s property.
Statists are indignant and furious over the surrender of the BLM. The same people who boasted that liberty activists would be slaughtered by Fed agents are now frothing at the mouth because they did not get their massacre. Not only that, but the bureaucracy they worship has shown itself to be impotent in the face of Constitutional champions. All I can say is nothing puts a bigger grin on my face than to see statists cry like babies when their delusions of grandeur are trampled on.
This was a major victory for the liberty movement. But let’s be clear; the fight is just beginning.
I suspect that the Bundy event will be spun by news agencies and the government until it is unrecognizable. They will claim that the BLM left not because they were wrong, but because they were trying to keep people safe. They will claim that liberty movement protesters were the aggressors and the poor BLM agents were just trying to do their jobs. They will play the race card as they always do, much like this pathetically lazy and unprofessional article from Slate, which asserts that if the Bundy's had been black, the Liberty Movement would have never supported them. They will argue the so-called Federal legality of the raid itself, and paint Bundy as a “freeloader” who refuses to pay taxes and who is living off the American people. They will do everything in their power to destroy the image of the victory and soil the name of the Bundy family.
What they don’t seem to understand, though, is that the liberty movement does not care what the Federal government deems “legal” or “illegal.” Our only interest is what is Constitutional and what is moral. The dispute was never about the “legality” of Bundy’s use of the land, which his family used for grazing without interference for generations — until 1993, when the BLM used the absurd endangered species protection racket to put all of his neighbors out of business and threaten his ranch with invasion. Add to this the recently discovered fact that Senator Harry Reid's former assistant and friend Neil Kornze is now head of the BLM due to Reid's influence, and the fact that Harry Reid and his family are reaping financial rewards by driving farmers from all over the region where Cliven Bundy's ranch sits while arranging land deals with Chinese solar companies, and one has to ask, why should Bundy pay any of his hard earned money to the federal government when they are just going to use it to bulldoze his cattle and make Harry Reid more rich?
Disinformation websites like Snopes contend that Reid's "projects" are not being established anywhere near the Bundy Ranch, yet, one such project has already been launched only 35 miles south of Bundy, and, the BLM has erased a page from its website specifically mentioning the Bundy Ranch and it's "interference" with Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone Projects, the same projects Harry Reid and his son are heavily involved in.
What is amazing to me is that in light of this information hardcore socialists are still willing to defend Reid and the BLM. My question is, if the BLM is so innocent, then why are they erasing such data from their website at all? What were they trying to hide?
Harry Reid has not responded to the facts behind his financial involvement in the BLM's attacks on Nevada farmers, except to say that they are "conspiracy theories". He added when asked about the status of the confrontation:
“Well, it’s not over. We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it’s not over...”
Yes, Harry, it won't be over until men like you are thrown behind bars.
Note that he says "an American people"; as if he is separate, as if he is referring to all of us as a subservient organism, or servant class. What Reid is saying is, the elites can't have "an American people" openly exposing their criminality and defying their tyranny, and then just walking away. I'm sorry to break it to Reid, but that is exactly how all of this is going to end.
Statists and bureaucrats like Reid continually attempt to argue this issue from the standpoint of Federal legality, obviously because the Federal government has the legislative and bureaucratic power to make any despicable action legal (at least on paper) if it wishes. However, the liberty movement has no interest whatsoever in Federal interpretations of legal precedence. We are only concerned with what is right. As the old saying goes, when injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty.
The liberty movement also fully understands that the Bundy victory was only one battle at the beginning of a long war.
The BLM may very well be waiting for activists to leave the area before attacking again. And even if that is not the case, tyrannical systems have a way of attempting to make up for signs of weakness by escalating violence during the next siege. That is to say, we should expect the next event involving the BLM or other government agencies to be even more vicious than the Bundy incident. It is simply the natural inclination of totalitarian systems to exaggerate their power when their failings have been exposed.
That said, it should be noted that corrupt leadership often crumbles in the face of steadfast resolve and courage. We have a long way to go before this Nation is once again truly free, but the liberty movement has proven its invaluable worth over the course of the past several days. We arrived at a crossroads, and we are now moving forward in the right direction — without fear and without regret. It is in these moments when history is made — when common men and women thwart the odds, defy the darkness and make good on their beliefs by risking everything in the name of freedom.
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Two Nevada millionaires feuding over who gets to use public land for private gain.
This is exactly the issue and yet very few get that point. You have people who argue this is a 'property rights' issue. It isn't. Ditto the idiots who argue that Bundy should 'see fit to use the public land as he wants to' which is a 'tragedy of the common' issue and no private individual should be fit to utilize public land only as they see fit.
It's actually not a tragedy of the commons issues because Bundy has been taking care of the land he's been raising cattle on.
A tragedy of the commons example would be the US Government's extensive use of land in western states for military training and testing.
Says Bundy.
The 'american' movement "let's me thieve quietly, bro" is rising. Always been on the rise since 1776, July, 4th. But still rising.
Tell me, what is your idea of freedom and who are the freedom fighters today?
Always funny to see 'americans' quoting Thomas Paine, who was loathed by the hallowed founding fathers.
Hey, always calling an outsider as an endorsement to conceal their 'american' nature.
What bullshit.... Bundy is trespassing, and needs to pay his grazing fees or get his cows off public lands.
And the show of force from the BLM is shameful and unprofessional......
They are all a bunch of jackasses!
anyone ever wonder why the Fed gov owns any state land? did they pay the states for it? seems like public land is really the kings forest, you know - only the king can hunt and kill wild game thing..reminds me of DNR agents who hunt/fish out of season here in maryland, but will arrest and fine the public for doing the same thing..
Because there was a federal government before there was a claim on such lands.
Different from the "King's Forest", public lands not on trust to certain specific beneficiaries can be used by everyone. But if you extract from it, damn, you have to compensate. If not, you're just taking from the public domain to your own private one. Same as the crazy patenting and copyright laws in the US which only robs from the public domain and keeps it locked away for over a century.
This thing about Harry Reid and his son reminds me of the Soviet Union during the Brezhnev years, and Russia under Yeltsin. Back then, if you were connected to the regime, you were allowed to participate in various "sweetheart deals", that no one else was allowed to. You prospered at the expense of the rest of the country. We all know how that ended, and this is no different. I used to think that the statist would win in an armed conflict against the people, but I am not so sure now. One thing is for certain, the reason why the ammo shortage has continued this long is because certain people want to see it dry up. Your advesary can't continue if they run out of ammo.
Lots of ammo on those BLM storm troopers and in their SUV's .... must practice heead and joint shots.
OMan - how true, which is why I cringe every time people use 'socialist' to describe the likes of Reid, I see a thug with far left leanings who has no problem using the weight and weapons of the Fed to oppress people. That is a communist.
Time to go back on the definitions:
"Communism (from Latin communis – common, universal) is a socioeconomic system structured upon common ownership of the means of production and characterised by the absence of classes, money,and the state;"
"Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy"
"The terms "left" and "right" appeared during the French Revolution of 1789 when members of the National Assembly divided into supporters of the king to the president's right and supporters of the revolution to his left."
Definition and reality are two different things.
Liberal at one time was defined as conservative.
Putin is a communist and that pretty definition has nothing to do with his belief system - thug is a thug in the US or Russia
Definition and newspeak are two different things. In ancient China, whenever a new dynasty took over, they made a reset on the meaning of words to their original meanings, as they lost it with time.
Liberal is too ample a term to be taken like that. There are several branches of liberalism, or several political ideologies which take parts of the original liberal ideology.
My grandpa was a communist. And he was no thug. He was the hardest working man I ever knew. His own father sold rags and was illiterate. He became an engineer and ended his life being high middle class.
Being a thug or not has nothing to do with communism, socialism, capitalism or any other social or economical theory. A thug is simply a brutal ruffian or assassin, originates from Hindi thag: "thief". The day I see Putin advocating common ownership of the means of production, no classes, no money, no state; then I'll call him a communist.
So how would you define the likes of Reid and Putin?
Anytime a government restricts freedoms like speech, travel, land ownership, which communism does, that fits within my definition of a thug.
Communism is just what the definition I posted before said. Some people sometimes get confused by 2 things. Many call themselves something they're not. And the second reason is that the "book" process for the proletariat revolution had an interim phase called the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, which was supposed to be the moment to get "hard" on capitalism to achieve "global communism". Because after all, no national state can pretend to be a superpower, or be free from outside interference once the real objective of communism is reached. Because it's all about, in principle, the absence of the state and hierarchy... AND MONEY. Of course, that's just one type of method to achieve the theoretical end of communism, not the only one. And I'm afraid that within our current national state system worldwide, something like theoretical communism (on a country level) can never exist (it'd be eaten by the powerful first, after all it's de-complexity. And we know what Tainter said about that: "collapse" (loss of complexity) - they'll get absorbed by the more complex actors around).
Communism doesn't mean thuggery. It's meaning is quite simple and has nothing to do with that. If people viced the idea, or took methods which implied heavy restrictions, or just became drunk with power; that doesn't mean they were "communists" per se.
And in fact, there are communist/semi-communist models around which are functional and have nothing to do with repression. Something like the "village system", where everybody shares the means of production, the results of labour. And rather than trading or doing commerce, they give what they produce to those who need it, and vice-versa: they receive what they need from others who produce it.
It's always good to first check the definitions. If not, throwing willy nilly terms like "communism" as labels full of empty meanings, end up just playing the hand of the one who got you to believe those bastardizations. Like when you start Kendou. You don't go around doing "tsuki" willy nilly. You start by the "kihon", the basics. The boring "tairyouku" for starters. No "kihon" and you'll always be mediocre, at best.
EDIT: Shit, long post gonna become longer. I got so into the previous explanation I forgot your first question.
"So how would you define the likes of Reid and Putin?"
I'm not so sure about Reid's history and background, so I can't give you a more precise definition. But from what I can see he'd be part plutocrat (hes a moneyed man, wouldn't be in congress without that), but he's not THE plutocrat as I believe he's more like the sycophant of the real moneyed ones. He'd also be in part an aristocrat. He's part of a privileged class just by being in congress (congress has private laws for themselves). And I don't really know how much of his posturing lately has to do with his personal belief or just following a state policy, which fogs the definition even more. Reid is no ruler. He's a bureaucrat (government characterized by specialization of functions, adherence to fixed rules, and a hierarchy of authority) of sorts.
As for Putin. I'd first call him a plebiscitary autocrat. A guy who was elected and controls (to some extent) the 3 branches of government. I'd also dare call him a fascist, as he has some unholy alliance with not really corporations but oligarchic plutocrats, while being nationalist and populist. Putin is a lot easier to classify, after all, he's the one holding the reins.
The Nevada Cattlemen Association has one of the most balanced and insightful view regarding this issue.
The Nevada Cattlemen's Association believes that private property rights are at the foundation of our country and our liberty, and we know that the rule of law protects those property rights. Our policy supports private property interests that exist on public lands, including water rights and grazing rights. We also support the continued multiple use of public lands, as authorized by law and confirmed by the courts. It is under this framework of the rule of law that our property rights and multiple uses are protected.
The multiple use statutes allow timber, grazing, wildlife, recreation and other uses to carry on side-by-side in a way that, as the statute reads “will best meet the needs of the American people.” Increasingly, we see the federal government placing higher priority on uses other than grazing. This not only violates the multiple use statutes, it violates the grazing and water rights that are also protected by laws such as the Taylor Grazing Act (TGA). Under the TGA, ranchers have a right to graze livestock on federal lands based on historical utilization. While this property interest is complex by nature given that it exists on surfaces owned by the federal government — it is nonetheless a real property interest that is taxed and saleable. It must be protected. On the same token, ranchers who exercise their grazing rights are obligated to pay a grazing fee as established by law.
Ranchers such as Mr. Bundy have found themselves with their backs against the wall as, increasingly, federal regulations have infringed on their public land grazing rights and the multiple use management principle. This is not only devastating to individual ranching families; it is also causing rural communities in the west to whither on the vine. In the west, one in every two acres is owned by the federal government. Therefore, the integrity of the laws protecting productive multiple use is paramount to the communities that exist there.
The situation in Nevada stands as an example the federal agencies’ steady trend toward elevating environmental and wildlife issues over livestock grazing – in violation of the above mentioned laws and principles. Well intentioned laws such as the Endangered Species Act — which are factors in Mr. Bundy’s case are being implemented in a way that are damaging to our rights and to our western families and communities. In Bundy’s case, the designation of his grazing area as a critical habitat for the endangered desert tortoise gave the BLM the rationale they needed to order a 500% decrease in his cattle numbers. There never was any scientific proof that cattle had historically harmed the desert tortoise.
However, in accordance with the rule of law, we must use the system set forth in our Constitution to change those laws and regulations. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands.
Nevada Cattlemen’s Association (NCA) works hard to change regulations detrimental to the sound management of public lands in a lawful manner and supports the concept of multiple uses on federally managed lands and encourages members of the livestock industry to abide by regulations governing federal lands.
Furthermore, Nevada Cattlemen’s Association supports effective range management through collaboration with resource management agencies and interested parties to achieve rangeland management goals for economically viable ranch operations and the conservation of wildlife species.
With the above stated, this case was reviewed by a federal judge and a decision was rendered to remove the cattle. Nevada Cattlemen’s Association does not feel it is our place to interfere in the process of adjudication in this matter. Additionally, NCA believes the matter is between Mr. Bundy and the Federal Courts.
We regret that this entire situation was not avoided through more local government involvement and better implementation of federal regulations, laws, and court decisions. While we cannot advocate operating outside the law to solve problems, we also sympathize with Mr. Bundy’s dilemma. With good faith negotiations from both sides, we believe a result can be achieved which recognizes the balance that must be struck between private property rights and resource sustainability."
Great post thanks...
The position take by the cattleman's assoc. obviously protecs the big producers, Bundy is just more proof of that, being the last man standing in Clark county.
A bit off topic but as you said "Our policy supports private property interests that exist on public lands"
Individual property interest on public lands. What a novel concept. And yet the public has been brainwashed by the political branches and seemingly backed up by the courts that this is not possible.
Take for instance your drivers license. We have been told over and over that it is a "privilege" to operate a motor vehicle on the streets and highways of this country. I have read volumes of case law on this subject matter confirming that driving is a privilege and fully agree with the courts. The problem is that due to the jurisdictional defects in those cases created by the licensing statutes, ALL OF THAT CASE LAW IS OFF POINT. THIS is how the system works.
Most State constituions confirm that all political power is inherent in the people. We the people created the constitution and from those rights we grant our government powers. One of those powers involves the right of eminent domain. Having agreed to be taxed, our servants use the power of eminent domain to condemn private property for public roads ..aka "right of ways. Those right of ways are "inailenable and are held in Trust for the public for the purpose of (travel) common use. The public, that is every individual within the public has a constitutionally and judicially protected property interest in that use. However, there exist a use that lies outside the terms of the trust. Using the public right of ways for extra ordinary uses...aka deriving profit and gain from the use (taxi service, over the road trucking, ect) falls outside the terms of the trust and therefore can be prohibited altogether. Our legislature(trustee) can however grant those extraordinary uses and tie any conditions to those uses to protect the public from an activity that would otherwise constitute a TRESPASS. The license represents and administrative lifting of a legislatively created prohibition and can include regulations that can be so oppressive that they, in of themselves, can prohibit.
The supreme court of Washington said in Hadfield v. Lundin, supra: “If any proposition may be said to be established by authority, the right of the state in the exercise of its police power to prohibit the use of the streets as a place of private business, or as the chief instrumentality in conducting such business, must be held so established. Nor can it be questioned that the [page 238] power to prohibit includes the power to regulate even to the extent that the regulation under given conditions may be tantamount to a prohibition. Where the power to prohibit exists, the reasonableness of any regulation is palpably a legislative question, pure and simple.”
In other words, spit on the sidewalk, loose your license. Dont pay child support. Loose your license. Moreover the PUBLIC must be compensated and protected for the GRANT of use therefore the trustee can TAX the PRIVILEGE and as the power to tax is the power to destroy, the amount of the tax cannot be controlled by the courts.
BUT WHERE DOES THE PUBLIC RIGHTFULLY STAND WITHIN THE PUBLIC TRUST DOCTRINE?? IS COMMON USE AS A MATTER OF LAW AND FACT INVOLVE BOTH LIBERTY AND PROPERTY INTEREST OF EVERY INDIVIDUAL OF EQUALL STANDING WITHIN THE PUBLIC? OR DO WE THE PUBLIC STAND NO HIGHER THAN THOSE PERMITTED THE PRIVILEGE TO TRESPASS????
“As was said by the supreme court of West Virginia (Dickey v. Davis, 76 W. Va.576 [L.R.A. 1915F, 840, 85 S.E. 781]:
“The right of a citizen to travel upon the highway and transport his property thereon in the ordinary course of life and business differs radically and obviously from that of one who makes the highway his place of business and uses it for private gain, in the running of a stage coach or omnibus. The former is the usual and ordinary right of a citizen, a common right, a right common to all; while the latter is special, unusual and extraordinary. As to the former, the extent of legislature power is that of regulation; but as to the latter its power is broader; the right may be wholly denied, or it may be permitted to some and denied to others, because of its extraordinary nature. This distinction, elementary and fundamental in character, is recognized by all the authorities.”
The above quote by the courts shows the judiciary recognizes the distincion. And herein lies the problem. Isnt it interesting HOW MUCH EXTRAORDINARY CONTROL AND REVENUE THAT CAN BE EXTORTED FROM THE PUBLIC BY IDENTIFYING AND REGULATION THE PUBLIC AS MERE TRESSPASSERS ON THEIR INAILENBLE RIGHT OF WAYS??
........
INALIENABLE. A word denoting the condition of those things the property in which cannot be lawfully transferred from one person to another. Public highways and rivers are inalienable. There are also many rights which are inalienable, as the rights of liberty or of speech. (Note, this is repeated in Bouvier’s Law Dictionary verbatim Baldwin’s Students Edition 1934 Banks- Baldwin Law Publishing Company at the time was the Oldest Law Publishing House in America - Established 1804.
So there you have it. There exists an entire body of case law that confirms that operationg a motor vehicle on the publics road is a privilege. There also exists an entire body of case law that draws the distinction between the USE and confirms ordinary use is a RIGHT that can not be ailenated. But it has because once the trustee licenses, the courts of law and equity must presume the law does not violate the constitution. All those that stand before the (traffic) courts are presumed to be properly classified and the courts are now prohibited under the doctrine of separation of powers from interfereing judicially with administrative regs. They are jurisdictionally restrained from interfereing with political questions.
We are plauged by a broken down system of justice that places form over substance. Yes we are dealing with a massive breach of the public trust and corruption by our trustees. Yet, the courts have their rules and their systems. They were suppose to guaruntee honesty, justice, and the rule of law. They were suppose to guaruntee property rights!!! The system as designed is working perfectly. And yet, the SUBSTANCE of the forms adopted by the judiciary results in the EXACT OPPOSITE of what was to be inviolable within our written constitutions.
LISTEN!! This is the scam. The legislature creates a license using broad language that identifies everyone. The statute therefore creates the STANDING of the individual. The licensing scheme is nothing more than an administrative lifting of a legislatively created prohibition. Standing in turn creates the JURISDICTION of the court which in turn determines how a court SITS in relation to a RIGHT as that RIGHT is affected by the enforcement of the law.
So where did the trustee get the power to PROHIBIT the public in the first instance? And now, under the unrebutted presumption, that power of prohibition includes the application of SUMMARY REGULATIONS and EXCISES in amounts that in of itself can act as prohibitions. Cause and effect. One thing leads to another. The entire regulatory scheme as created by the presumption that the public itself are mere treaspassers and therefore fits these extraorninary administrative regulatory powers is beyond absurd yet stands because of government corruption and legal paradoxes that have all but destroyed the due process clause.
Fucking idiot lawyers. So many think that just because you walk into a court, that the court sits in a capacity that it can hear your arguments. Look at the rancher. He claims a property interest. Great!! Did he identify and then attack the constitutionality of the underlying federal ACTS used by the BLM to tie the hands of the federal courts thereby allowing this fucked up despotic administrative agency to WALK AROUND those substantail property interests??? I would bet a pile of silver coins that his idiotic legal representation did nothing of the sort, nor did they properly present a case or controversy within the context of procedure.
We are now all tresspassers on our own property. If this shit is NOT straightened out in the courts, its going to devolve into civil war. ARE YOU FUCKERS IN THE JUDICIARY LISTENING??? Or are you going to address the legal paradoxes created within your own system? So far we the people are watching you continue to fiddle while the empire burns
Inalienable illegals.
Translation - please don't stop using Vaseline.
"A judge awarded more than $4.2 million to a late Nevada rancher's estate after finding that the U.S. Forest Service engaged in an unconstitutional 'taking' of water rights out of hostility to the rancher, a property rights activist.
The rancher, Wayne Hage, bought the sprawling Pine Creek Ranch in central Nevada in 1978:
http://www.planetizen.com/node/33467
Now if these people would stop waving these ridiculous American flags and stop standing while putting their hand over their hearts during the imperial anthem, that would be great.
This issue isn't the start of anything and the only reason it stays at the top of ZH and has so many posts about it is because it gets so many views. It is click-bait and a honey pot to draw people to come back to the site early and often.
The fact that Brandon Smith somehow is given a lot credibility on this site is laughable. Op-ed contributors often are fringe guys but get posted on here frequently since they work for free and allow ZH to repost their content for free.
ZH isn't remotely an 'alternative-news site' either as evidenced by the number of web site hits it gets monthly or the number of unique users it gets. It is predominantly an American-viewed website with almost no foreign readership.
May I see your credibility license? Was it officially issued to you or is the application still processing?
Brandon Smith is a young guy who lives in Montana and didn't even finish community college yet publishes op-ed article after op-ed article on economics, history (none of which is document based or even well-researched), etc.
Yeah his writing style has improved a bit since he first appeared on here but I don't take anyone seriously who doesn't have at least a decent amount of experience on a topic and/or the credentials on it.
Bizarro - We see so many articles written by the left and their 'properly' educated crowd that are based on fiction; only an educated idiot could write them.
Ugh. It depends on the topic but there is a severe 'anti-science, junk science' crowd on here. You see it any time an article on vaccines are posted. Ditto evolution or a host of other topics .
Left? Don't look now, but your .gov conditioning is showing my friend. Left=Right now don't you know. Incredible as it may seem, Bush/Cheny, and it sickens me to say this, trampled on the Constitution waaaaaay less than Obama/Biden have. Very sad. Change we can hardly believe in if we hadn't seen it with our own eyes.
You are talking about pseudo belief systems not the actual left/right belief system.
Bush was a RINO, just less destructive than the acknowledge left
The only person saying Brandon Smith has credibility on this iste is you. ZH posts articles of all kinds and from all kinds of sources. You must have failed to notice the massive ridicule they direct frequently at GS, yet they post many articles originating from GS. I think they call that freedom of speech or something like that. They throw it out there and we are free to read it, or not, and make up our own minds. Pretty sweet actually. Not going to happen in the MSM. They basically condition the masses to think and believe what the MSM's masters have dictated. Maybe you would be more comfortable reading and commenting on the posts on Fox New's site. I hear they have the inside scoop!!!
His license is still stuck at the bottom of the creal box.
You live a world of your own delusions sunshine.
Have you considered taking advice form someone.
Out of interest did you ever have children, or have they all committed suicide by now,
I ecpect the smarter ones, if in fact you have the length or potency to actually have children, would have taken the only viable option before their first birthday
Besides being a complete jerk what facts did you post to counter any of what I said regarding the oped-writers on this site or the viewership stats on this website?
Making those kinds of remarks about someone's kids is completely uncalled for and given you other insulting similar remarks on here I would imagine it is you who had strong antisocial or psychotic issues and needs professional help.
You're way out of line.
"It is predominantly an American-viewed website with almost no foreign readership. "
As you'd expect given that the language used is English. On a Russian language site I expect you'd find a majority of Russians.
And since it's in English, I expect you'd find a number of Canadians, British, Australians etc. in rough proportion to the size of their population.
Likewise, for a Russian site you'd find Ukrainians, Latvians, Estonians etc in rough proportion.
Granted, the focus will tend towards the majority interest, but I've seen enough Canadian and UK issues here to hold my interest. Nigel Farage gets a lot of coverage here, and he's not American.
All that aside, though, I come here because I'm interested in what Americans are thinking, since one way or another it has an effect on the rest of us.
The shill posts are easy enough to spot - I discount those, and yes there's too many of them, but you get what you pay for. That's true just about everywhere and is just one of the caveats to using a free site.
Anyway, I wouldn't base my opinions solely on what I read here, nor would I dismiss posters here simply because I don't share their views. There are plently of echo chambers on the net if that's what you're looking for. Try The Market Ticker or Naked Capitalism if you don't like ZH. No one's twisting you arm.
Everyone keeps saying this could be a Waco type moment. I have news for that bitch Reid...........you kill a bunch of cowboys and average white Americans shit's gona hit the fan big fucking time. There is no comparison to Waco. The gov't already had the sheeple convinced they were a bunch of whackos. This is an entirely different situation. I live in a rural area and let me tell you......I know plenty of old boys just chomping at the bit in response to this, gun control etc. Democracy my fucking ass the US is a goddamn fucking zoo with slightly intelligent monkies in charge.
That is the ridiculous irony is that US gun-rights have never been so plentiful and abundant and if anything the NRA is pressing at the state-level to bring guns into places (e.g., churches, schools) where there have never been guns or guns were banned outright.
Bizarro, what is your backround to comment on blm fed gov ownership of state lands and USA laws in general? as you brought this subject up, you could at least give us a short CV on your expertese..(not holding breath)
None besides what I have read on the topic .
Yeah, like New York, for instance.
Yeah that is one state in 50 but if you look on the whole gun rights have been massively expanded the past few years including the state where I live, PA.
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Funny how if you bring up any gun rights issue on here it is always that there is massive and ever expanding gun control despite Congress not passing any gun control in 20 years, SCOTUS striking down a couple of gun control laws, and most stares massively expanding gun carry rights including concealed carry in every state now.
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Couldn"t have said it better bro!
"you kill a bunch of cowboys and average white Americans shit's gona hit the fan big fucking time."
I guess killing a bunch of workers and average non white Americans is allright with you?
Does anyone know when the BLM bought this land from the State of Nevada? How much did they pay for it?
If you want to throw a jab at the 'Liberty Movment' folks, it is that I have seen so many overweight/even obese people pictured there in camo fatigues or other gear. So hard core that they can't even get up in the morning and exercise.
Please post links with pictures. I would rather have overweight liberty loving folks showing up with resolve and spirit for our Republic than keyboard commandos in mommy's basement.
And what the fuck do YOU look like?
36, 5 11 3/4, 176. Just had my physical last week.
Like to be a few pounds less or in slightly better shake but don't have the time to work out everyday.
Maybe instead of exercising your body you should give some thought to working on your obvious personality flaws. Yeah, I am in good physical shape as well, especially for my age, but I don't belittle those around me for not being fit. Our current socio-economic environment makes it quite difficult for people to develop the necessary discipline and attitude needed to eat healthy and stay healthy. At least your screen name seems appropriate for your disposition presented here.
I was asked by someone on here and yeah at the end of the day it comes down to the individual. You right mocking those who are overweight doesn't do anything productive but there needs to be an action point before disease sets it. It's hard and we haven't found a great way get to engage people cheaply and effectively.
Losing and maintaining weight loss is really difficult because it requires an entire lifestyle change along with being something human physiology has evolved not to easily do.
Huge issue and one of the biggest if bit the biggest ones facing the US because of what it implies for medical costs and levels of disability even at middle age. Getting type 2 diabetes isn't a lifestyle management issue. It is a death sentence which will almost certainly cut someone's life short and almost certainly give them a reduced quality of life before that point.
As a health economist and having saw what that did firsthand to my grandfather, I feel strongly on the topic.
MeBizarro
http://www.drjaywortman.com/blog/wordpress/2012/04/27/carbohydrate-intolerance-institutional-intransigence/
I'm sixty, a certified instructor in spin (indoor cycling), and yoga. I also practice Martial
Arts. ...and yes, I wear camo shorts on a daily basis. It unnerves the Statists.
You're right. We need to stay in shape because the enemy will not be fat and sloppy.
I doubt an alleged weight problem would impair their ability to shoot a rifle well, especially at long range.
here's what the nyt says
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/opinion/egan-deadbeat-on-the-range.htm...
Reading that was like falling into an upside down world...
Excellent link, +1.
The Pravda article forgot to mention that a senior political advisor to Harry Reid took over BLM and Reid's solar farm project 35 miles from the Bundy ranch in Bunkerville.
We stand beside our Ukrainian brothers and sisters.
He's a taker.
Appologise if this has been posted already but anyone see what that fuckwad Harry Reid said yesterday? He's calling the militia at Bundys' ranch "domestic terrorists". This is how the government trys to spraypaint people and influence opinion. Those are dangerous and dismissive things to say about people standing up for what they feel is right.
Never one to mince words, Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, lumped supporters of Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy in with the Eric Rudolphs, Richard Reids and Timothy McVeighs.
The senate majority leader labeled those who defended the rancher against a Bureau of Land Management cattle roundup "domestic terrorists" at a Thursday evening question-and-answer session hosted by the Las Vegas Review-Journal.
"Those people who hold themselves out to be patriots are not. They’re nothing more than domestic terrorists,” Reid said. "I repeat: What went on up there was domestic terrorism.”
Amen, not the only one in Congress fanning the flames:
http://bit.ly/1mlMCmU
Just like Assange, Snowden, MH370 hoax, this story is more phoney baloney. Unless you are a shill or sock puppet, don't be taken in by the BS.
"don't be taken in by the BS"
So, what are you saying is the real story on the Bundy/Bunkerville matter?
Easy. A thief who stole his neighbors, community and the public as a whole.
While I do believe the Bundy issue to be nothing but propaganda, I have to disagree on the rest you said. Not every news story that hits it big with people is a obscure plot by a cabal.
look up "OATH KEEPERS"
look up "Three percenters"
these are the groups that rallied 1000+ to support Bundy
gubmint spends $3 million in attempt to collect alleged $1 million....
ARTICLE 1, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 18
unfortunately the feds never ceded 86% of the federal lands to Nevada back in 1864 when the territory gained statehood.
THUS THE FEDS VIOLATED THE CONSTITUTION FROM DAY ONE
it calls for the land to go to the state and then if the state so chooses it can sell the land.... privately or to the Feds. the Feds can also claim land for specific uses as written inthe Constitution, but non eof these includes BLM or such.
the thing collapsed once HARRY REID'S CORRUPTION BUBBLED TO THE SURFACE. He had the turtle issue quashed for a real estate development his family was interested in. Hea nd his son support ENN a Chinese utility that wanted to use land about 35 miles away with turtle issue waived.
Funny. I don't see any FSA out there on the scene worried about tyrany/freedom. Nope, there to busy in their tiny world.
sorry, but this Bundy guy is just a scofflaw. He feels he's somehow entitled to use land which he does not own and never has. He should pay his f**king taxes like everyone else and if cattle ranching is no longer viable ( he's the last in the area -- smarter ranchers have moved on ) he should move on to another locale.
Lawless A**holes are not somehow standing up for Liberty anymore than Ghetto thugs selling dope to children or Terrorists claiming to be driven by their faith in fundamental religion.
Community standards prevent my neighbor from parking his trucks on my front lawn. I don't want to live in a country or world where Bundy is the community standard -- that's called anarchy.
These are not taxes, they are supposed land use fees. He also was paying them to Nevada as Bundy felt it was state land and did not recognize it as FED .gov land. Nevada could not process the payments as they did not have a depository code for land use fees, they held onto the payments without them being deposited.
You can live in your fine community. Us folks that own many acres of land in the country live on our own, for our own and will continue to do so without federal interference. The Republic will be taken back for love of life, liberty and pursuit of everyone's happiness, except for the socialist elite who wish to own the people and govern the people by a different set of rules other than our beloved Constitution.
Well, Bundy felt something that wasn't the law. If you don't like the laws, there are institutional ways to deal with that. And none of those means doing whatever you want.
[They worry about our strength and ability.]
Not strong enough. Really, they are scared shitless of our strength and ability. They lose sleep at night, they pull the covers over their heads, they would tuck their tails if they had them.
BUTT, don't be lulled though, a cornered animal such as our current regime is still armed to the teeth and perfectly willing to pull the trigger at the slightest provocation. The Bundy ranch is not a settled matter and blood may yet be shed.
You can be certain of this: If it's not the Bundy ranch, it will be something else and pretty damned soon. The greedy self-serving fucks in the halls of power know (KNOW) that control is slipping out of thier grasp and will stop at nothing to preserve their sorry asses. If history teaches us anything, it is that the people that gravitate towrad exploitative power have no respect for the rights of others. Those who believe that things will return to normal cannot be more wrong. We can not go back. We can only go forward, and forward is starting to look very much like a behavioral collapse.
OBTW: All you TLA fucks monitoring this thread: We're watching you.
Show me your friends, and I will show you your future.
When the acron stops spinning, it's time to head for the hills...and "consumer" is a derogatory term. Please don't use it.
messymerry
"control is slipping out of thier grasp and will stop at nothing to preserve their sorry asses..."
Look for the announcment that OB will run again. Or maybe no more federal elections.
I don't think he will get a chance. This ponzi scheme is going to implode before the next prez election. Besides, I think an announcement of a run for a third term will result in a general insurrection. Ain't going to happen. The Statists have a good supply of useful idiots in their ranks to replace BO with another one and sidestep the mayhem that an attempt at a third run would spawn.
Breakng News. Harry Read now saying those at ranch are Domestic Terrorist's.
The guy is a clown. Impeach Harry Reid.
http://www.petition2congress.com/9639/impeach-harry-reid/
The most interesting (to me) aspect of the Bundy ranch saga is that it pits white man (liberty guys) against white man (government) in the US.
The resolution will be interesting to watch.
White Christian vs Zio-Thug Minions.
- Fixed
Now what would happen if Putin were to throw his support behind Bundy - send some Russian special forces over --- along with some sniper rifles?
Surely Obama would be ok with that - because that's what he did in Ukraine - and in Syria
don't forget drones
Putin is just another globalist. We don't need his kind of "help".
And you'd have loved for the US to go and bomb Syria and Ukraine, right?
This is a must watch interview as to how tense the situation was, actual onsite footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v4kHaXYLO-U
It's the people vs the globalist/multinationals.
Makes me wonder: "What if they were Apache or Paiute or Comanche?" Oh wait, we don't discuss events prior to 1492. Move along.
Homeland Security adviser Lisa Monaco gave a speech this week in which she urged parents to watch their children for signs of “confrontational” behavior which could be an indication of them becoming terrorists. Yeah, I'd say we have a problem. Next they will tell the children to watch mom and dad and report their behavior. Liberty is circling the drain a bit faster now
There's an inherent problem with basing arguments about freedom on the Constitution. The second you bring up the Constitution, by the Constitution itself, you submit to the whole framework of government and how the Constitution is to be interpreted and applied. You've opted in to the court system. Guess who runs the court system?
Sure, I can (and have) read the Constitution and I can see how many of the things we do today are clearly not "Constitutional." But most of them have been put to the test by the court system and have been declared "Constitutional." If I'm playing baseball and the umpire calls me out on a pitch in the dirt, that's not right either. But by the rules of baseball, I'm out. Not because of where the pitch was, but because the umpire makes the calls. I agreed to that when I decided to play baseball.
I saw a lot of this during the 1970s and early '80s Farm Crisis (to distinguish from the Farm Crisis that has been going on for 70+ years). Farmers would find a line in the Constitution that explained to them why they shouldn't lose their farms. Or their great-great-great grandfather had been granted the farm by the Homestead Act. Well, of course it was interpreted by the courts that they had forfeited title when they put the farm up to get a loan and never paid back the loan. Now, the reasons they hadn't paid back the loans were worth considering. Farm commodities pricing is stacked in favor of big corporate farms; the more you sell, the higher the price you get. In contrast to bulk discounts, you get bulk premiums. But that sort of thing isn't covered by the Constitution. There were armed standoffs then, too, and they ended about the way you'd expect.
There's an almost Protestant/Catholic divide in this issue. The way the government is set up is more like Catholicism. Only lawyers, legislators, the courts and ultimately the Supreme Court get to define whether or not something is Constitutional. A lot of people, in a Protestant way, want to interpret the Constitution as they read it. The establishment isn't going to go for that.
I suppose in the context of the comments on this page, I should mention that I haven't stated my personal opinion on this matter.
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
Lindaamick: The most interesting (to me) aspect of the Bundy ranch saga is that it pits white man (liberty guys) against white man (government) in the US.
The resolution will be interesting to watch.
...and thats why Ballsac Harry Reid busted out and called them Domestic Terrorists.
problem solved, see how easy that was?
Sign me up to kick some names and take some ass!!
This all paints a pretty dismal picture of our immediate future. It could be that the US government anticipates tough economic times ahead (dollar collapse, war, food shortages, etc) and is preparing for widespread dissent and protest. Perhaps even civil war within the US. But arming ourselves is probably not the right answer. The best way - the only way really - will be to face down tyranny just like the the unarmed protester faced down the tank in Tianamen Square in China.
Is it just me or does everyone else find themselves censoring what they type?
Psquared
Absolutely yes. And what I say to anyone I haven't known for 50 years or more.
The movement must be nonviolent. I'm not saying give up guns, but I'm saying you can't lead with them. Gandhi and other civil disobedience champions should be the model. In this day and age of ubiquitous media, they can take the smallest thing out of context and use an image or statement as a soundbyte against you. The liberty movement must be civil and organized. Occupy Wall Street shows such a failure.
...We're not gonna take you
We forsake you
Gonna rape you
Let's forget you better still.
The Who.
I agree with the nonviolent point.
The system should be shunned. In the Amish tradition.
Shun Credit Cards, Shun Banks, Shun the System as much as possible.
Imagine a Presidential Election and only 5% voted?
But, I feel too much pain has been built up and it may have many people die.
Many innocent people will be killed. Many Guilty.
Many will receive the right punishment for the wrong crime.
And many Will Munny out there.
Little Bill Daggett: I don't deserve this... to die like this. I was building a house.
Will Munny: Deserve's got nothin' to do with it.
Because there will be many Unforgiven
Re "Imagine a Presidential Election and only 5% voted?"
That's how Hitlers are elected.
I will kindly refer you to Alabama 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpGgLyfDERI
Excellent video, watch it.
OBTW: When the acron stops spinning, it's time to head for the hills...and "consumer" is a derogatory term. Please don't use it.
Psquared:
But think about what you say - if we self-censor, aren't we capitulating to the fear that the gov will come after us, our bank accounts, our jobs, our reputations? If we show fear in the things we say in public, we have spat upon the memories of the men who fought and died to write and defend the first amendment and all the others.
This was brought home to me when I was trying to rally my friends to participate in the 2A rallies last year and one mentioned his need to stay off the gov radar because he didn't want to be audited by the IRS, again.
We cede power to the gov by failing to exercise our duties as citizens.
Who knows what happened to Tank Man or the Tank Driver?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
“Well, it’s not over. We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it’s not over...”
Like people who come into the country illegally or something...
Bundy is just the latest exercise in measuirng up resistance of the people to overreach by the feds. There will be more.
Keep your powder dry.
Hopper: You let one ant stand up to us, then they all might stand up! Those puny little ants outnumber us a hundred to one and if they ever figure that out there goes our way of life! It's not about food, it's about keeping those ants in line.
there may be more wacos but the government will always ultimately win. they have the technology to suppress.
Please help. My emails are rejected by out of state congressmen
Dear Congressperson
Greystone and other entities are a way for the president and CIA to get around congressional oversight and legal restrictions of the executive branch established after the Frank Church commission.
The president cannot send CIA and military employees to Ukraine without Congressional oversight
A "private" company can, and Ukraine can "pay" for it with our loan guarantees and other aid we send Ukraine.
This circumvents legal restrictions and congressional oversight.
Greystone and others are the new Air America.
We have contractors.....um....private soldiers......um.......quasi government agents........in Ukraine......without congressional oversight, and this violates several laws established after the Frank Church commission hearings.
Even if the rumors of their capture is untrue, this is still potentially a huge scandal if some were to be captured. Not only that, it is patently illegal. Not only that, it is morally and ethically wrong.
That is also another reason that the BLM pulled out. If there had been a shootout and Joe Blow died in a BLM uniform, then his friends and family would say publicly "Joe Blow? He didnt work for the BLM. He worked for Blackwater and Greystone. He was contract military."
Do you see the huge scandal?
For congressional oversight you have to ask the CIA and NSA and the president to respond to this. Please.
The BLM essentially acknowledged contract mercenaries when questioned. Look up MSM reports. Also our government has even acknowledged Greystone is in Ukraine. Look it up.
Only one foolproof way to get your representative to read your Email. In the heading, subject matter, simplly write "Credit card campain donation".
Better yet, meet at predefined location regular time for blank envelope.
The US Post Office delivers by law:
http://www.contactingthecongress.org/
As much as I would like to see the current "KLeptocracy" overthrown and have long advocated for it, you can not correct one wrong by by replacing it with another!
Much of the west was settled long before the SPanish, Europeans and white mormans showed up. It was through American nationalism and imperialism we took it, called it ours. Killing or placing in prison camps (reservations) the original inhabitatants.
Under no law previous or since implemented does Bundy own the land he is profiting from.
If it truly is "public land" where is my slice? Do I get a say re: turtle or cow?
Give the decision to the original land owners (if any are still left alive).
To start a revolution over this issue is to insure a failed outcome by pitting one set of theives against another.
Bundy is wrong pure and simple. First amendment zones are wrong pure and simple. THe BLM is wrong pure and simple. What we do have here is insanity.
Question? Where were the oath keepers , second amendment supporters and the constitutionalists when occupy kids were getting their heads bashed iin by government supported jack booted thugs for engaging their first amendment rights?
Fucking hypocrites!
The Oath Keepers were at many different Occupy protests across the country, attempting to educate the more Marxist elements on the constitutional way to handle the big banks. The Marxists were angered that the Oath Keepers were there giving a different perspective -
http://occupywallst.org/forum/oath-keepers/
Ummmm, there were no visible or identifiable "oathkeepers" at the Fl location I was at (Florida and your link is to a Tampa Location).
The references to Los Angeles (your link) are not demonstrable of any action to defend "constitutional rights".
There were many vets who showed up in uniform who stood unarmed in protest against the police violence against those exercising 1st amendment rights which apply to the right, left and those U.S. citizens who choose not to wear a label. I personally did not see one who identified as an oath keeper (though I do know some in my area who chose not to get involved).
I also attended Tea Party rallies in the area as, like w/ occupy, many early stands had validity. However and unfortunately both movements were quickly co-opted by crazies. The Tea party crazys better organized, better financed and more skilled at propaganda.
Either/or I stand against designated "protest" zones for anyone. This is America and regardless of your belief you have the right to express it on "any" Public property. So any who advocate for individual constitutional rights rights should have at least objected loudly to the beating being administered during occupy.
The assholes in Washington whom so many on site claim to object to will continue to win until both the left and the right stop picking and choosing between whose constitutional rights they want to defend!
As one who was there I can tell you at the moratoriums in Washington during the Vietnam war there were representatives of all factions of America present. It was only then that we we were able to get the hell out of vietnam.
Using Bundy as the cause of rebellion is totally self serving and will give the goverment an excuse to engage in even more egregious oppression.
Very simply because he is wrong and in defense of him you will give the excuse the government would love.
Delaware Indians signed the first treaty with US government on 17 September 1778 at Fort Pitt for free passage and safety of the white man, to recognize the Lenape as the 14th State.
The treaty was promptly broken as they were tricked into war and repeatedly driven off their lands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Fort_Pitt
How is Bundy wrong again?
Repeated wrongs do not make you right.
Still working on "decoupling" from the system...and it is not easy.
Food independance, energy independence....easier said than done.
Oh, by the way, FUCK YOU BANKSTERS...and their stooges, CONGRESS.
Just because I have seen this referenced in a few posts:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure."
- Thomas Jefferson
Constitution of the Iroquois Nations: THE GREAT BINDING LAW, GAYANASHAGOWA1. I am Dekanawidah and with the Five Nations' Confederate Lords I plant the Tree of Great Peace. I plant it in your territory, Adodarhoh, and the Onondaga Nation, in the territory of you who are Firekeepers.
I name the tree the Tree of the Great Long Leaves. Under the shade of this Tree of the Great Peace we spread the soft white feathery down of the globe thistle as seats for you, Adodarhoh, and your cousin Lords.
We place you upon those seats, spread soft with the feathery down of the globe thistle, there beneath the shade of the spreading branches of the Tree of Peace. There shall you sit and watch the Council Fire of the Confederacy of the Five Nations, and all the affairs of the Five Nations shall be transacted at this place before you, Adodarhoh, and your cousin Lords, by the Confederate Lords of the Five Nations.
2. Roots have spread out from the Tree of the Great Peace, one to the north, one to the east, one to the south and one to the west. The name of these roots is The Great White Roots and their nature is Peace and Strength.
If any man or any nation outside the Five Nations shall obey the laws of the Great Peace and make known their disposition to the Lords of the Confederacy, they may trace the Roots to the Tree and if their minds are clean and they are obedient and promise to obey the wishes of the Confederate Council, they shall be welcomed to take shelter beneath the Tree of the Long Leaves.
We place at the top of the Tree of the Long Leaves an Eagle who is able to see afar. If he sees in the distance any evil approaching or any danger threatening he will at once warn the people of the Confederacy.
3. To you Adodarhoh, the Onondaga cousin Lords, I and the other Confederate Lords have entrusted the caretaking and the watching of the Five Nations Council Fire.
When there is any business to be transacted and the Confederate Council is not in session, a messenger shall be dispatched either to Adodarhoh, Hononwirehtonh or Skanawatih, Fire Keepers, or to their War Chiefs with a full statement of the case desired to be considered. Then shall Adodarhoh call his cousin (associate) Lords together and consider whether or not the case is of sufficient importance to demand the attention of the Confederate Council. If so, Adodarhoh shall dispatch messengers to summon all the Confederate Lords to assemble beneath the Tree of the Long Leaves.
When the Lords are assembled the Council Fire shall be kindled, but not with chestnut wood1, and Adodarhoh shall formally open the Council.
Then shall Adodarhoh and his cousin Lords, the Fire Keepers, announce the subject for discussion.
The Smoke of the Confederate Council Fire shall ever ascend and pierce the sky so that other nations who may be allies may see the Council Fire of the Great Peace.
Adodarhoh and his cousin Lords are entrusted with the Keeping of the Council Fire.
4. You, Adodarhoh, and your thirteen cousin Lords, shall faithfully keep the space about the Council Fire clean and you shall allow neither dust nor dirt to accumulate. I lay a Long Wing before you as a broom. As a weapon against a crawling creature I lay a staff with you so that you may thrust it away from the Council Fire. If you fail to cast it out then call the rest of the United Lords to your aid.
5. The Council of the Mohawk shall be divided into three parties as follows: Tekarihoken, Ayonhwhathah and Shadekariwade are the first party; Sharenhowaneh, Deyoenhegwenh and Oghrenghrehgowah are the second party, and Dehennakrineh, Aghstawenserenthah and Shoskoharowaneh are the third party. The third party is to listen only to the discussion of the first and second parties and if an error is made or the proceeding is irregular they are to call attention to it, and when the case is right and properly decided by the two parties they shall confirm the decision of the two parties and refer the case to the Seneca Lords for their decision. When the Seneca Lords have decided in accord with the Mohawk Lords, the case or question shall be referred to the Cayuga and Oneida Lords on the opposite side of the house.
6. I, Dekanawidah, appoint the Mohawk Lords the heads and the leaders of the Five Nations Confederacy. The Mohawk Lords are the foundation of the Great Peace and it shall, therefore, be against the Great Binding Law to pass measures in the Confederate Council after the Mohawk Lords have protested against them.
No council of the Confederate Lords shall be legal unless all the Mohawk Lords are present.
7. Whenever the Confederate Lords shall assemble for the purpose of holding a council, the Onondaga Lords shall open it by expressing their gratitude to their cousin Lords and greeting them, and they shall make an address and offer thanks to the earth where men dwell, to the streams of water, the pools, the springs and the lakes, to the maize and the fruits, to the medicinal herbs and trees, to the forest trees for their usefulness, to the animals that serve as food and give their pelts for clothing, to the great winds and the lesser winds, to the Thunderers, to the Sun, the mighty warrior, to the moon, to the messengers of the Creator who reveal his wishes and to the Great Creator who dwells in the heavens above, who gives all the things useful to men, and who is the source and the ruler of health and life.
Then shall the Onondaga Lords declare the council open.
The council shall not sit after darkness has set in.
8. The Firekeepers shall formally open and close all councils of the Confederate Lords, and they shall pass upon all matters deliberated upon by the two sides and render their decision.
Every Onondaga Lord (or his deputy) must be present at every Confederate Council and must agree with the majority without unwarrantable dissent, so that a unanimous decision may be rendered.
If Adodarhoh or any of his cousin Lords are absent from a Confederate Council, any other Firekeeper may open and close the Council, but the Firekeepers present may not give any decisions, unless the matter is of small importance.
9. All the business of the Five Nations Confederate Council shall be conducted by the two combined bodies of Confederate Lords. First the question shall be passed upon by the Mohawk and Seneca Lords, then it shall be discussed and passed by the Oneida and Cayuga Lords. Their decisions shall then be referred to the Onondaga Lords, (Fire Keepers) for final judgement.
The same process shall obtain when a question is brought before the council by an individual or a War Chief.
10. In all cases the procedure must be as follows: when the Mohawk and Seneca Lords have unanimously agreed upon a question, they shall report their decision to the Cayuga and Oneida Lords who shall deliberate upon the question and report a unanimous decision to the Mohawk Lords. The Mohawk Lords will then report the standing of the case to the Firekeepers, who shall render a decision as they see fit in case of a disagreement by the two bodies, or confirm the decisions of the two bodies if they are identical. The Fire Keepers shall then report their decision to the Mohawk Lords who shall announce it to the open council.
11. If through any misunderstanding or obstinacy on the part of the Fire Keepers, they render a decision at variance with that of the Two Sides, the Two Sides shall reconsider the matter and if their decisions are jointly the same as before they shall report to the Fire Keepers who are then compelled to confirm their joint decision.
12. When a case comes before the Onondaga Lords (Fire Keepers) for discussion and decsion, Adodarho shall introduce the matter to his comrade Lords who shall then discuss it in their two bodies. Every Onondaga Lord except Hononwiretonh shall deliberate and he shall listen only. When a unanimous decision shall have been reached by the two bodies of Fire Keepers, Adodarho shall notify Hononwiretonh of the fact when he shall confirm it. He shall refuse to confirm a decision if it is not unanimously agreed upon by both sides of the Fire Keepers.
13. No Lord shall ask a question of the body of Confederate Lords when they are discussing a case, question or proposition. He may only deliberate in a low tone with the separate body of which he is a member.
14. When the Council of the Five Nation Lords shall convene they shall appoint a speaker for the day. He shall be a Lord of either the Mohawk, Onondaga or Seneca Nation.
The next day the Council shall appoint another speaker, but the first speaker may be reappointed if there is no objection, but a speaker's term shall not be regarded more than for the day.
15. No individual or foreign nation interested in a case, question or proposition shall have any voice in the Confederate Council except to answer a question put to him or them by the speaker for the Lords.
16. If the conditions which shall arise at any future time call for an addition to or change of this law, the case shall be carefully considered and if a new beam seems necessary or beneficial, the proposed change shall be voted upon and if adopted it shall be called, "Added to the Rafters".
Rights, Duties and Qualifications of Lords17. A bunch of a certain number of shell (wampum) strings each two spans in length shall be given to each of the female families in which the Lordship titles are vested. The right of bestowing the title shall be hereditary in the family of the females legally possessing the bunch of shell strings and the strings shall be the token that the females of the family have the proprietary right to the Lordship title for all time to come, subject to certain restrictions hereinafter mentioned.
18. If any Confederate Lord neglects or refuses to attend the Confederate Council, the other Lords of the Nation of which he is a member shall require their War Chief to request the female sponsors of the Lord so guilty of defection to demand his attendance of the Council. If he refuses, the women holding the title shall immediately select another candidate for the title.
No Lord shall be asked more than once to attend the Confederate Council.
19. If at any time it shall be manifest that a Confederate Lord has not in mind the welfare of the people or disobeys the rules of this Great Law, the men or women of the Confederacy, or both jointly, shall come to the Council and upbraid the erring Lord through his War Chief. If the complaint of the people through the War Chief is not heeded the first time it shall be uttered again and then if no attention is given a third complaint and warning shall be given. If the Lord is contumacious the matter shall go to the council of War Chiefs. The War Chiefs shall then divest the erring Lord of his title by order of the women in whom the titleship is vested. When the Lord is deposed the women shall notify the Confederate Lords through their War Chief, and the Confederate Lords shall sanction the act. The women will then select another of their sons as a candidate and the Lords shall elect him. Then shall the chosen one be installed by the Installation Ceremony.
When a Lord is to be deposed, his War Chief shall address him as follows:
The War Chief shall now address the women of the deposed Lord and say:
Again addressing himself to the deposed Lord he shall say:
Then shall the War Chief address himself to the Lords of the Nation to which the deposed Lord belongs and say:
The Lords of the Confederacy shall then have no other alternative than to sanction the discharge of the offending Lord.
20. If a Lord of the Confederacy of the Five Nations should commit murder the other Lords of the Nation shall assemble at the place where the corpse lies and prepare to depose the criminal Lord. If it is impossible to meet at the scene of the crime the Lords shall discuss the matter at the next Council of their Nation and request their War Chief to depose the Lord guilty of crime, to "bury" his women relatives and to transfer the Lordship title to a sister family.
The War Chief shall address the Lord guilty of murder and say:
The War Chief shall then hand the title to a sister family and he shall address it and say:
21. Certain physical defects in a Confederate Lord make him ineligible to sit in the Confederate Council. Such defects are infancy, idiocy, blindness, deafness, dumbness and impotency. When a Confederate Lord is restricted by any of these condition, a deputy shall be appointed by his sponsors to act for him, but in case of extreme necessity the restricted Lord may exercise his rights.
22. If a Confederate Lord desires to resign his title he shall notify the Lords of the Nation of which he is a member of his intention. If his coactive Lords refuse to accept his resignation he may not resign his title.
A Lord in proposing to resign may recommend any proper candidate which recommendation shall be received by the Lords, but unless confirmed and nominated by the women who hold the title the candidate so named shall not be considered.
23. Any Lord of the Five Nations Confederacy may construct shell strings (or wampum belts) of any size or length as pledges or records of matters of national or international importance.
When it is necessary to dispatch a shell string by a War Chief or other messenger as the token of a summons, the messenger shall recite the contents of the string to the party to whom it is sent. That party shall repeat the message and return the shell string and if there has been a summons he shall make ready for the journey.
Any of the people of the Five Nations may use shells (or wampum) as the record of a pledge, contract or an agreement entered into and the same shall be binding as soon as shell strings shall have been exchanged by both parties.
24. The Lords of the Confederacy of the Five Nations shall be mentors of the people for all time. The thickness of their skin shall be seven spans -- which is to say that they shall be proof against anger, offensive actions and criticism. Their hearts shall be full of peace and good will and their minds filled with a yearning for the welfare of the people of the Confederacy. With endless patience they shall carry out their duty and their firmness shall be tempered with a tenderness for their people. Neither anger nor fury shall find lodgement in their minds and all their words and actions shall be marked by calm deliberation.
25. If a Lord of the Confederacy should seek to establish any authority independent of the jurisdiction of the Confederacy of the Great Peace, which is the Five Nations, he shall be warned three times in open council, first by the women relatives, second by the men relatives and finally by the Lords of the Confederacy of the Nation to which he belongs. If the offending Lord is still obdurate he shall be dismissed by the War Chief of his nation for refusing to conform to the laws of the Great Peace. His nation shall then install the candidate nominated by the female name holders of his family.
26. It shall be the duty of all of the Five Nations Confederate Lords, from time to time as occasion demands, to act as mentors and spiritual guides of their people and remind them of their Creator's will and words. They shall say:
Every Confederate Lord shall speak words such as these to promote peace.
27. All Lords of the Five Nations Confederacy must be honest in all things. They must not idle or gossip, but be men possessing those honorable qualities that make true royaneh. It shall be a serious wrong for anyone to lead a Lord into trivial affairs, for the people must ever hold their Lords high in estimation out of respect to their honorable positions.
28. When a candidate Lord is to be installed he shall furnish four strings of shells (or wampum) one span in length bound together at one end. Such will constitute the evidence of his pledge to the Confederate Lords that he will live according to the constitution of the Great Peace and exercise justice in all affairs.
When the pledge is furnished the Speaker of the Council must hold the shell strings in his hand and address the opposite side of the Council Fire and he shall commence his address saying: "Now behold him. He has now become a Confederate Lord. See how splendid he looks." An address may then follow. At the end of it he shall send the bunch of shell strings to the oposite side and they shall be received as evidence of the pledge. Then shall the opposite side say:
29. When a Lordship title is to be conferred, the candidate Lord shall furnish the cooked venison, the corn bread and the corn soup, together with other necessary things and the labor for the Conferring of Titles Festival.
30. The Lords of the Confederacy may confer the Lordship title upon a candidate whenever the Great Law is recited, if there be a candidate, for the Great Law speaks all the rules.
31. If a Lord of the Confederacy should become seriously ill and be thought near death, the women who are heirs of his title shall go to his house and lift his crown of deer antlers, the emblem of his Lordship, and place them at one side. If the Creator spares him and he rises from his bed of sickness he may rise with the antlers on his brow.
The following words shall be used to temporarily remove the antlers:
32. If a Lord of the Confederacy should die while the Council of the Five Nations is in session the Council shall adjourn for ten days. No Confederate Council shall sit within ten days of the death of a Lord of the Confederacy.
If the Three Brothers (the Mohawk, the Onondaga and the Seneca) should lose one of their Lords by death, the Younger Brothers (the Oneida and the Cayuga) shall come to the surviving Lords of the Three Brothers on the tenth day and console them. If the Younger Brothers lose one of their Lords then the Three Brothers shall come to them and console them. And the consolation shall be the reading of the contents of the thirteen shell (wampum) strings of Ayonhwhathah. At the termination of this rite a successor shall be appointed, to be appointed by the women heirs of the Lordship title. If the women are not yet ready to place their nominee before the Lords the Speaker shall say, "Come let us go out." All shall leave the Council or the place of gathering. The installation shall then wait until such a time as the women are ready. The Speaker shall lead the way from the house by saying, "Let us depart to the edge of the woods and lie in waiting on our bellies."
When the women title holders shall have chosen one of their sons the Confederate Lords will assemble in two places, the Younger Brothers in one place and the Three Older Brothers in another. The Lords who are to console the mourning Lords shall choose one of their number to sing the Pacification Hymn as they journey to the sorrowing Lords. The singer shall lead the way and the Lords and the people shall follow. When they reach the sorrowing Lords they shall hail the candidate Lord and perform the rite of Conferring the Lordship Title.
33. When a Confederate Lord dies, the surviving relatives shall immediately dispatch a messenger, a member of another clan, to the Lords in another locality. When the runner comes within hailing distance of the locality he shall utter a sad wail, thus: "Kwa-ah, Kwa-ah, Kwa-ah!" The sound shall be repeated three times and then again and again at intervals as many times as the distance may require. When the runner arrives at the settlement the people shall assemble and one must ask him the nature of his sad message. He shall then say, "Let us consider." Then he shall tell them of the death of the Lord. He shall deliver to them a string of shells (wampum) and say "Here is the testimony, you have heard the message." He may then return home.
It now becomes the duty of the Lords of the locality to send runners to other localities and each locality shall send other messengers until all Lords are notified. Runners shall travel day and night.
34. If a Lord dies and there is no candidate qualified for the office in the family of the women title holders, the Lords of the Nation shall give the title into the hands of a sister family in the clan until such a time as the original family produces a candidate, when the title shall be restored to the rightful owners.
No Lordship title may be carried into the grave. The Lords of the Confederacy may dispossess a dead Lord of his title even at the grave.
Election of Pine Tree Chiefs35. Should any man of the Nation assist with special ability or show great interest in the affairs of the Nation, if he proves himself wise, honest and worthy of confidence, the Confederate Lords may elect him to a seat with them and he may sit in the Confederate Council. He shall be proclaimed a 'Pine Tree sprung up for the Nation' and shall be installed as such at the next assembly for the installation of Lords. Should he ever do anything contrary to the rules of the Great Peace, he may not be deposed from office -- no one shall cut him down -- but thereafter everyone shall be deaf to his voice and his advice. Should he resign his seat and title no one shall prevent him. A Pine Tree chief has no authority to name a successor nor is his title hereditary.
Names, Duties and Rights of War Chiefs36. The title names of the Chief Confederate Lords' War Chiefs shall be:
The women heirs of each head Lord's title shall be the heirs of the War Chief's title of their respective Lord.
The War Chiefs shall be selected from the eligible sons of the female families holding the head Lordship titles.
37. There shall be one War Chief for each Nation and their duties shall be to carry messages for their Lords and to take up the arms of war in case of emergency. They shall not participate in the proceedings of the Confederate Council but shall watch its progress and in case of an erroneous action by a Lord they shall receive the complaints of the people and convey the warnings of the women to him. The people who wish to convey messages to the Lords in the Confederate Council shall do so through the War Chief of their Nation. It shall ever be his duty to lay the cases, questions and propositions of the people before the Confederate Council.
38. When a War Chief dies another shall be installed by the same rite as that by which a Lord is installed.
39. If a War Chief acts contrary to instructions or against the provisions of the Laws of the Great Peace, doing so in the capacity of his office, he shall be deposed by his women relatives and by his men relatives. Either the women or the men alone or jointly may act in such a case. The women title holders shall then choose another candidate.
40. When the Lords of the Confederacy take occasion to dispatch a messenger in behalf of the Confederate Council, they shall wrap up any matter they may send and instruct the messenger to remember his errand, to turn not aside but to proceed faithfully to his destination and deliver his message according to every instruction.
41. If a message borne by a runner is the warning of an invasion he shall whoop, "Kwa-ah, Kwa-ah," twice and repeat at short intervals; then again at a longer interval.
If a human being is found dead, the finder shall not touch the body but return home immediately shouting at short intervals, "Koo-weh!"
Clans and Consanguinity42. Among the Five Nations and their posterity there shall be the following original clans: Great Name Bearer, Ancient Name Bearer, Great Bear, Ancient Bear, Turtle, Painted Turtle, Standing Rock, Large Plover, Deer, Pigeon Hawk, Eel, Ball, Opposite-Side-of-the-Hand, and Wild Potatoes. These clans distributed through their respective Nations, shall be the sole owners and holders of the soil of the country and in them is it vested as a birthright.
43. People of the Five Nations members of a certain clan shall recognize every other member of that clan, irrespective of the Nation, as relatives. Men and women, therefore, members of the same clan are forbidden to marry.
44. The lineal descent of the people of the Five Nations shall run in the female line. Women shall be considered the progenitors of the Nation. They shall own the land and the soil. Men and women shall follow the status of the mother.
45. The women heirs of the Confederated Lordship titles shall be called Royaneh (Noble) for all time to come.
46. The women of the Forty Eight (now fifty) Royaneh families shall be the heirs of the Authorized Names for all time to come.
When an infant of the Five Nations is given an Authorized Name at the Midwinter Festival or at the Ripe Corn Festival, one in the cousinhood of which the infant is a member shall be appointed a speaker. He shall then announce to the opposite cousinhood the names of the father and the mother of the child together with the clan of the mother. Then the speaker shall announce the child's name twice. The uncle of the child shall then take the child in his arms and walking up and down the room shall sing: "My head is firm, I am of the Confederacy." As he sings the opposite cousinhood shall respond by chanting, "Hyenh, Hyenh, Hyenh, Hyenh," until the song is ended.
47. If the female heirs of a Confederate Lord's title become extinct, the title right shall be given by the Lords of the Confederacy to the sister family whom they shall elect and that family shall hold the name and transmit it to their (female) heirs, but they shall not appoint any of their sons as a candidate for a title until all the eligible men of the former family shall have died or otherwise have become ineligible.
48. If all the heirs of a Lordship title become extinct, and all the families in the clan, then the title shall be given by the Lords of the Confederacy to the family in a sister clan whom they shall elect.
49. If any of the Royaneh women, heirs of a titleship, shall wilfully withhold a Lordship or other title and refuse to bestow it, or if such heirs abandon, forsake or despise their heritage, then shall such women be deemed buried and their family extinct. The titleship shall then revert to a sister family or clan upon application and complaint. The Lords of the Confederacy shall elect the family or clan which shall in future hold the title.
50. The Royaneh women of the Confederacy heirs of the Lordship titles shall elect two women of their family as cooks for the Lord when the people shall assemble at his house for business or other purposes.
It is not good nor honorable for a Confederate Lord to allow his people whom he has called to go hungry.
51. When a Lord holds a conference in his home, his wife, if she wishes, may prepare the food for the Union Lords who assemble with him. This is an honorable right which she may exercise and an expression of her esteem.
52. The Royaneh women, heirs of the Lordship titles, shall, should it be necessary, correct and admonish the holders of their titles. Those only who attend the Council may do this and those who do not shall not object to what has been said nor strive to undo the action.
53. When the Royaneh women, holders of a Lordship title, select one of their sons as a candidate, they shall select one who is trustworthy, of good character, of honest disposition, one who manages his own affairs, supports his own family, if any, and who has proven a faithful man to his Nation.
54. When a Lordship title becomes vacant through death or other cause, the Royaneh women of the clan in which the title is hereditary shall hold a council and shall choose one from among their sons to fill the office made vacant. Such a candidate shall not be the father of any Confederate Lord. If the choice is unanimous the name is referred to the men relatives of the clan. If they should disapprove it shall be their duty to select a candidate from among their own number. If then the men and women are unable to decide which of the two candidates shall be named, then the matter shall be referred to the Confederate Lords in the Clan. They shall decide which candidate shall be named. If the men and the women agree to a candidate his name shall be referred to the sister clans for confirmation. If the sister clans confirm the choice, they shall refer their action to their Confederate Lords who shall ratify the choice and present it to their cousin Lords, and if the cousin Lords confirm the name then the candidate shall be installed by the proper ceremony for the conferring of Lordship titles.
Official Symbolism55. A large bunch of shell strings, in the making of which the Five Nations Confederate Lords have equally contributed, shall symbolize the completeness of the union and certify the pledge of the nations represented by the Confederate Lords of the Mohawk, the Oneida, the Onondaga, the Cayuga and the Senecca, that all are united and formed into one body or union called the Union of the Great Law, which they have established.
A bunch of shell strings is to be the symbol of the council fire of the Five Nations Confederacy. And the Lord whom the council of Fire Keepers shall appoint to speak for them in opening the council shall hold the strands of shells in his hands when speaking. When he finishes speaking he shall deposit the strings on an elevated place (or pole) so that all the assembled Lords and the people may see it and know that the council is open and in progress.
When the council adjourns the Lord who has been appointed by his comrade Lords to close it shall take the strands of shells in his hands and address the assembled Lords. Thus will the council adjourn until such time and place as appointed by the council. Then shall the shell strings be placed in a place for safekeeping.
Every five years the Five Nations Confederate Lords and the people shall assemble together and shall ask one another if their minds are still in the same spirit of unity for the Great Binding Law and if any of the Five Nations shall not pledge continuance and steadfastness to the pledge of unity then the Great Binding Law shall dissolve.
56. Five strings of shell tied together as one shall represent the Five Nations. Each string shall represent one territory and the whole a completely united territory known as the Five Nations Confederate territory.
57. Five arrows shall be bound together very strong and each arrow shall represent one nation. As the five arrows are strongly bound this shall symbolize the complete union of the nations. Thus are the Five Nations united completely and enfolded together, united into one head, one body and one mind. Therefore they shall labor, legislate and council together for the interest of future generations.
The Lords of the Confederacy shall eat together from one bowl the feast of cooked beaver's tail. While they are eating they are to use no sharp utensils for if they should they might accidentally cut one another and bloodshed would follow. All measures must be taken to prevent the spilling of blood in any way.
58. There are now the Five Nations Confederate Lords standing with joined hands in a circle. This signifies and provides that should any one of the Confederate Lords leave the council and this Confederacy his crown of deer's horns, the emblem of his Lordship title, together with his birthright, shall lodge on the arms of the Union Lords whose hands are so joined. He forfeits his title and the crown falls from his brow but it shall remain in the Confederacy.
A further meaning of this is that if any time any one of the Confederate Lords choose to submit to the law of a foreign people he is no longer in but out of the Confederacy, and persons of this class shall be called "They have alienated themselves." Likewise such persons who submit to laws of foreign nations shall forfeit all birthrights and claims on the Five Nations Confederacy and territory.
You, the Five Nations Confederate Lords, be firm so that if a tree falls on your joined arms it shall not separate or weaken your hold. So shall the strength of the union be preserved.
59. A bunch of wampum shells on strings, three spans of the hand in length, the upper half of the bunch being white and the lower half black, and formed from equal contributions of the men of the Five Nations, shall be a token that the men have combined themselves into one head, one body and one thought, and it shall also symbolize their ratification of the peace pact of the Confederacy, whereby the Lords of the Five Nations have established the Great Peace.
The white portion of the shell strings represent the women and the black portion the men. The black portion, furthermore, is a token of power and authority vested in the men of the Five Nations.
This string of wampum vests the people with the right to correct their erring Lords. In case a part or all the Lords pursue a course not vouched for by the people and heed not the third warning of their women relatives, then the matter shall be taken to the General Council of the women of the Five Nations. If the Lords notified and warned three times fail to heed, then the case falls into the hands of the men of the Five Nations. The War Chiefs shall then, by right of such power and authority, enter the open concil to warn the Lord or Lords to return from the wrong course. If the Lords heed the warning they shall say, "we will reply tomorrow." If then an answer is returned in favor of justice and in accord with this Great Law, then the Lords shall individualy pledge themselves again by again furnishing the necessary shells for the pledge. Then shall the War Chief or Chiefs exhort the Lords urging them to be just and true.
Should it happen that the Lords refuse to heed the third warning, then two courses are open: either the men may decide in their council to depose the Lord or Lords or to club them to death with war clubs. Should they in their council decide to take the first course the War Chief shall address the Lord or Lords, saying: "Since you the Lords of the Five Nations have refused to return to the procedure of the Constitution, we now declare your seats vacant, we take off your horns, the token of your Lordship, and others shall be chosen and installed in your seats, therefore vacate your seats."
Should the men in their council adopt the second course, the War Chief shall order his men to enter the council, to take positions beside the Lords, sitting bewteen them wherever possible. When this is accomplished the War Chief holding in his outstretched hand a bunch of black wampum strings shall say to the erring Lords: "So now, Lords of the Five United Nations, harken to these last words from your men. You have not heeded the warnings of the women relatives, you have not heeded the warnings of the General Council of women and you have not heeded the warnings of the men of the nations, all urging you to return to the right course of action. Since you are determined to resist and to withhold justice from your people there is only one course for us to adopt." At this point the War Chief shall let drop the bunch of black wampum and the men shall spring to their feet and club the erring Lords to death. Any erring Lord may submit before the War Chief lets fall the black wampum. Then his execution is withheld.
The black wampum here used symbolizes that the power to execute is buried but that it may be raised up again by the men. It is buried but when occasion arises they may pull it up and derive their power and authority to act as here described.
60. A broad dark belt of wampum of thirty-eight rows, having a white heart in the center, on either side of which are two white squares all connected with the heart by white rows of beads shall be the emblem of the unity of the Five Nations.2
The first of the squares on the left represents the Mohawk nation and its territory; the second square on the left and the one near the heart, represents the Oneida nation and its territory; the white heart in the middle represents the Onondaga nation and its territory, and it also means that the heart of the Five Nations is single in its loyalty to the Great Peace, that the Great Peace is lodged in the heart (meaning the Onondaga Lords), and that the Council Fire is to burn there for the Five Nations, and further, it means that the authority is given to advance the cause of peace whereby hostile nations out of the Confederacy shall cease warfare; the white square to the right of the heart represents the Cayuga nation and its territory and the fourth and last white square represents the Seneca nation and its territory.
White shall here symbolize that no evil or jealous thoughts shall creep into the minds of the Lords while in Council under the Great Peace. White, the emblem of peace, love, charity and equity surrounds and guards the Five Nations.
61. Should a great calamity threaten the generations rising and living of the Five United Nations, then he who is able to climb to the top of the Tree of the Great Long Leaves may do so. When, then, he reaches the top of the tree he shall look about in all directions, and, should he see that evil things indeed are approaching, then he shall call to the people of the Five United Nations assembled beneath the Tree of the Great Long Leaves and say: " A calamity threatens your happiness."
Then shall the Lords convene in council and discuss the impending evil.
When all the truths relating to the trouble shall be fully known and found to be truths, then shall the people seek out a Tree of Ka-hon-ka-ah-go-nah,3, and when they shall find it they shall assemble their heads together and lodge for a time between its roots. Then, their labors being finished, they may hope for happiness for many days after.
62. When the Confederate Council of the Five Nations declares for a reading of the belts of shell calling to mind these laws, they shall provide for the reader a specially made mat woven of the fibers of wild hemp. The mat shall not be used again, for such formality is called the honoring of the importance of the law.
63. Should two sons of opposite sides of the council fire agree in a desire to hear the reciting of the laws of the Great Peace and so refresh their memories in the way ordained by the founder of the Confederacy, they shall notify Adodarho. He then shall consult with five of his coactive Lords and they in turn shall consult with their eight brethern. Then should they decide to accede to the request of the two sons from opposite sides of the Council Fire, Adodarho shall send messengers to notify the Chief Lords of each of the Five Nations. Then they shall despatch their War Chiefs to notify their brother and cousin Lords of the meeting and its time and place.
When all have come and have assembled, Adodarhoh, in conjunction with his cousin Lords, shall appoint one Lord who shall repeat the laws of the Great Peace. Then shall they announce who they have chosen to repeat the laws of the Great Peace to the two sons. Then shall the chosen one repeat the laws of the Great Peace.
64. At the ceremony of the installation of Lords if there is only one expert speaker and singer of the law and the Pacification Hymn to stand at the council fire, then when this speaker and singer has finished addressing one side of the fire he shall go to the oposite side and reply to his own speech and song. He shall thus act for both sidesa of the fire until the entire ceremony has been completed. Such a speaker and singer shall be termed the "Two Faced" because he speaks and sings for both sides of the fire.
65. I, Dekanawida, and the Union Lords, now uproot the tallest pine tree and into the cavity thereby made we cast all weapons of war. Into the depths of the earth, down into the deep underearth currents of water flowing to unknown regions we cast all the weapons of strife. We bury them from sight and we plant again the tree. Thus shall the Great Peace be established and hostilities shall no longer be known between the Five Nations but peace to the United People.
Laws of Adoption66. The father of a child of great comliness, learning, ability or specially loved because of some circumstance may, at the will of the child's clan, select a name from his own (the father's) clan and bestow it by ceremony, such as is provided. This naming shall be only temporary and shall be called, "A name hung about the neck."
67. Should any person, a member of the Five Nations' Confederacy, specially esteem a man or woman of another clan or of a foreign nation, he may choose a name and bestow it upon that person so esteemed. The naming shall be in accord with the ceremony of bestowing names. Such a name is only a temporary one and shall be called "A name hung about the neck." A short string of shells shall be delivered with the name as a record and a pledge.
68. Should any member of the Five Nations, a family or person belonging to a foreign nation submit a proposal for adoption into a clan of one of the Five Nations, he or they shall furnish a string of shells, a span in length, as a pledge to the clan into which he or they wish to be adopted. The Lords of the nation shall then consider the proposal and submit a decision.
69. Any member of the Five Nations who through esteem or other feeling wishes to adopt an individual, a family or number of families may offer adoption to him or them and if accepted the matter shall be brought to the attention of the Lords for confirmation and the Lords must confirm adoption.
70. When the adoption of anyone shall have been confirmed by the Lords of the Nation, the Lords shall address the people of their nation and say: "Now you of our nation, be informed that such a person, such a family or such families have ceased forever to bear their birth nation's name and have buried it in the depths of the earth. Henceforth let no one of our nation ever mention the original name or nation of their birth. To do so will be to hasten the end of our peace.
Laws of Emigration71. When any person or family belonging to the Five Nations desires to abandon their birth nation and the territory of the Five Nations, they shall inform the Lords of their nation and the Confederate Council of the Five Nations shall take cognizance of it.
72. When any person or any of the people of the Five Nations emigrate and reside in a region distant from the territory of the Five Nations Confederacy, the Lords of the Five Nations at will may send a messenger carrying a broad belt of black shells and when the messenger arrives he shall call the people together or address them personally displaying the belt of shells and they shall know that this is an order for them to return to their original homes and to their council fires.
Rights of Foreign Nations73. The soil of the earth from one end of the land to the other is the property of the people who inhabit it. By birthright the Ongwehonweh (Original beings) are the owners of the soil which they own and occupy and none other may hold it. The same law has been held from the oldest times.
The Great Creator has made us of the one blood and of the same soil he made us and as only different tongues constitute different nations he established different hunting grounds and territories and made boundary lines between them.
74. When any alien nation or individual is admitted into the Five Nations the admission shall be understood only to be a temporary one. Should the person or nation create loss, do wrong or cause suffering of any kind to endanger the peace of the Confederacy, the Confederate Lords shall order one of their war chiefs to reprimand him or them and if a similar offence is again committed the offending party or parties shall be expelled from the territory of the Five United Nations.
75. When a member of an alien nation comes to the territory of the Five Nations and seeks refuge and permanent residence, the Lords of the Nation to which he comes shall extend hospitality and make him a member of the nation. Then shall he be accorded equal rights and privileges in all matters except as after mentioned.
76. No body of alien people who have been adopted temporarily shall have a vote in the council of the Lords of the Confederacy, for only they who have been invested with Lordship titles may vote in the Council. Aliens have nothing by blood to make claim to a vote and should they have it, not knowing all the traditions of the Confederacy, might go against its Great Peace. In this manner the Great Peace would be endangered and perhaps be destroyed.
77. When the Lords of the Confederacy decide to admit a foreign nation and an adoption is made, the Lords shall inform the adopted nation that its admission is only temporary. They shall also say to the nation that it must never try to control, to interfere with or to injure the Five Nations nor disregard the Great Peace or any of its rules or customs. That in no way should they cause disturbance or injury. Then should the adopted nation disregard these injunctions, their adoption shall be annuled and they shall be expelled.
The expulsion shall be in the following manner: The council shall appoint one of their War Chiefs to convey the message of annulment and he shall say, "You (naming the nation) listen to me while I speak. I am here to inform you again of the will of the Five Nations' Council. It was clearly made known to you at a former time. Now the Lords of the Five Nations have decided to expel you and cast you out. We disown you now and annul your adoption. Therefore you must look for a path in which to go and lead away all your people. It was you, not we, who committed wrong and caused this sentence of annulment. So then go your way and depart from the territory of the Five Nations and from the Confederacy."
78. Whenever a foreign nation enters the Confederacy or accepts the Great Peace, the Five Nations and the foreign nation shall enter into an agreement and compact by which the foreign nation shall endeavor to pursuade other nations to accept the Great Peace.
Rights and Powers of War79. Skanawatih shall be vested with a double office, duty and with double authority. One-half of his being shall hold the Lordship title and the other half shall hold the title of War Chief. In the event of war he shall notify the five War Chiefs of the Confederacy and command them to prepare for war and have their men ready at the appointed time and place for engagement with the enemy of the Great Peace.
80. When the Confederate Council of the Five Nations has for its object the establishment of the Great Peace among the people of an outside nation and that nation refuses to accept the Great Peace, then by such refusal they bring a declaration of war upon themselves from the Five Nations. Then shall the Five Nations seek to establish the Great Peace by a conquest of the rebellious nation.
81. When the men of the Five Nations, now called forth to become warriors, are ready for battle with an obstinate opposing nation that has refused to accept the Great Peace, then one of the five War Chiefs shall be chosen by the warriors of the Five Nations to lead the army into battle. It shall be the duty of the War Chief so chosen to come before his warriors and address them. His aim shall be to impress upon them the necessity of good behavior and strict obedience to all the commands of the War Chiefs. He shall deliver an oration exhorting them with great zeal to be brave and courageous and never to be guilty of cowardice. At the conclusion of his oration he shall march forward and commence the War Song and he shall sing:
82. When the warriors of the Five Nations are on an expedition against an enemy, the War Chief shall sing the War Song as he approaches the country of the enemy and not cease until his scouts have reported that the army is near the enemies' lines when the War Chief shall approach with great caution and prepare for the attack.
83. When peace shall have been established by the termination of the war against a foreign nation, then the War Chief shall cause all the weapons of war to be taken from the nation. Then shall the Great Peace be established and that nation shall observe all the rules of the Great Peace for all time to come.
84. Whenever a foreign nation is conquered or has by their own will accepted the Great Peace their own system of internal government may continue, but they must cease all warfare against other nations.
85. Whenever a war against a foreign nation is pushed until that nation is about exterminated because of its refusal to accept the Great Peace and if that nation shall by its obstinacy become exterminated, all their rights, property and territory shall become the property of the Five Nations.
86. Whenever a foreign nation is conquered and the survivors are brought into the territory of the Five Nations' Confederacy and placed under the Great Peace the two shall be known as the Conqueror and the Conquered. A symbolic relationship shall be devised and be placed in some symbolic position. The conquered nation shall have no voice in the councils of the Confederacy in the body of the Lords.
87. When the War of the Five Nations on a foreign rebellious nation is ended, peace shall be restored to that nation by a withdrawal of all their weapons of war by the War Chief of the Five Nations. When all the terms of peace shall have been agreed upon a state of friendship shall be established.
88. When the proposition to establish the Great Peace is made to a foreign nation it shall be done in mutual council. The foreign nation is to be persuaded by reason and urged to come into the Great Peace. If the Five Nations fail to obtain the consent of the nation at the first council a second council shall be held and upon a second failure a third council shall be held and this third council shall end the peaceful methods of persuasion. At the third council the War Chief of the Five nations shall address the Chief of the foreign nation and request him three times to accept the Great Peace. If refusal steadfastly follows the War Chief shall let the bunch of white lake shells drop from his outstretched hand to the ground and shall bound quickly forward and club the offending chief to death. War shall thereby be declared and the War Chief shall have his warriors at his back to meet any emergency. War must continue until the contest is won by the Five Nations.
89. When the Lords of the Five Nations propose to meet in conference with a foreign nation with proposals for an acceptance of the Great Peace, a large band of warriors shall conceal themselves in a secure place safe from the espionage of the foreign nation but as near at hand as possible. Two warriors shall accompany the Union Lord who carries the proposals and these warriors shall be especially cunning. Should the Lord be attacked, these warriors shall hasten back to the army of warriors with the news of the calamity which fell through the treachery of the foreign nation.
90. When the Five Nations' Council declares war any Lord of the Confederacy may enlist with the warriors by temporarily renouncing his sacred Lordship title which he holds through the election of his women relatives. The title then reverts to them and they may bestow it upon another temporarily until the war is over when the Lord, if living, may resume his title and seat in the Council.
91. A certain wampum belt of black beads shall be the emblem of the authority of the Five War Chiefs to take up the weapons of war and with their men to resist invasion. This shall be called a war in defense of the territory.
Treason or Secession of a Nation92. If a nation, part of a nation, or more than one nation within the Five Nations should in any way endeavor to destroy the Great Peace by neglect or violating its laws and resolve to dissolve the Confederacy, such a nation or such nations shall be deemed guilty of treason and called enemies of the Confederacy and the Great Peace.
It shall then be the duty of the Lords of the Confederacy who remain faithful to resolve to warn the offending people. They shall be warned once and if a second warning is necessary they shall be driven from the territory of the Confederacy by the War Chiefs and his men.
Rights of the People of the Five Nations93. Whenever a specially important matter or a great emergency is presented before the Confederate Council and the nature of the matter affects the entire body of the Five Nations, threatening their utter ruin, then the Lords of the Confederacy must submit the matter to the decision of their people and the decision of the people shall affect the decision of the Confederate Council. This decision shall be a confirmation of the voice of the people.
94. The men of every clan of the Five Nations shall have a Council Fire ever burning in readiness for a council of the clan. When it seems necessary for a council to be held to discuss the welfare of the clans, then the men may gather about the fire. This council shall have the same rights as the council of the women.
95. The women of every clan of the Five Nations shall have a Council Fire ever burning in readiness for a council of the clan. When in their opinion it seems necessary for the interest of the people they shall hold a council and their decisions and recommendations shall be introduced before the Council of the Lords by the War Chief for its consideration.
96. All the Clan council fires of a nation or of the Five Nations may unite into one general council fire, or delegates from all the council fires may be appointeed to unite in a general council for discussing the interests of the people. The people shall have the right to make appointments and to delegate their power to others of their number. When their council shall have come to a conclusion on any matter, their decision shall be reported to the Council of the Nation or to the Confederate Council (as the case may require) by the War Chief or the War Chiefs.
97. Before the real people united their nations, each nation had its council fires. Before the Great Peace their councils were held. The five Council Fires shall continue to burn as before and they are not quenched. The Lords of each nation in future shall settle their nation's affairs at this council fire governed always by the laws and rules of the council of the Confederacy and by the Great Peace.
98. If either a nephew or a niece see an irregularity in the performance of the functions of the Great Peace and its laws, in the Confederate Council or in the conferring of Lordship titles in an improper way, through their War Chief they may demand that such actions become subject to correction and that the matter conform to the ways prescribed by the laws of the Great Peace.
Religious Ceremonies Protected99. The rites and festivals of each nation shall remain undisturbed and shall continue as before because they were given by the people of old times as useful and necessary for the good of men.
100. It shall be the duty of the Lords of each brotherhood to confer at the approach of the time of the Midwinter Thanksgiving and to notify their people of the approaching festival. They shall hold a council over the matter and arrange its details and begin the Thanksgiving five days after the moon of Dis-ko-nah is new. The people shall assemble at the appointed place and the nephews shall notify the people of the time and place. From the beginning to the end the Lords shall preside over the Thanksgiving and address the people from time to time.
101. It shall be the duty of the appointed managers of the Thanksgiving festivals to do all that is needed for carrying out the duties of the occasions.
The recognized festivals of Thanksgiving shall be the Midwinter Thanksgiving, the Maple or Sugar-making Thanksgiving, the Raspberry Thanksgiving, the Strawberry Thanksgiving, the Cornplanting Thanksgiving, the Corn Hoeing Thanksgiving, the Little Festival of Green Corn, the Great Festival of Ripe Corn and the complete Thanksgiving for the Harvest.
Each nation's festivals shall be held in their Long Houses.
102. When the Thansgiving for the Green Corn comes the special managers, both the men and women, shall give it careful attention and do their duties properly.
103. When the Ripe Corn Thanksgiving is celebrated the Lords of the Nation must give it the same attention as they give to the Midwinter Thanksgiving.
104. Whenever any man proves himself by his good life and his knowledge of good things, naturally fitted as a teacher of good things, he shall be recognized by the Lords as a teacher of peace and religion and the people shall hear him.
The Installation Song105. The song used in installing the new Lord of the Confederacy shall be sung by Adodarhoh and it shall be:
106. Whenever a person properly entitled desires to learn the Pacification Song he is privileged to do so but he must prepare a feast at which his teachers may sit with him and sing. The feast is provided that no misfortune may befall them for singing the song on an occasion when no chief is installed.
Protection of the House107. A certain sign shall be known to all the people of the Five Nations which shall denote that the owner or occupant of a house is absent. A stick or pole in a slanting or leaning position shall indicate this and be the sign. Every person not entitled to enter the house by right of living within it upon seeing such a sign shall not approach the house either by day or by night but shall keep as far away as his business will permit.
Funeral Addresses108. At the funeral of a Lord of the Confederacy, say: Now we become reconciled as you start away. You were once a Lord of the Five Nations' Confederacy and the United People trusted you. Now we release you for it is true that it is no longer possible for us to walk about together on the earth. Now, therefore, we lay it (the body) here. Here we lay it away. Now then we say to you, 'Persevere onward to the place where the Creator dwells in peace. Let not the things of the earth hinder you. Let nothing that transpired while yet you lived hinder you. In hunting you once took delight; in the game of Lacrosse you once took delight and in the feasts and pleasant occasions your mind was amused, but now do not allow thoughts of these things to give you trouble. Let not your relatives hinder you and also let not your friends and associates trouble your mind. Regard none of these things.'
"Now then, in turn, you here present who were related to this man and you who were his friends and associates, behold the path that is yours also! Soon we ourselves will be left in that place. For this reason hold yourselves in restraint as you go from place to place. In your actions and in your conversation do no idle thing. Speak not idle talk neither gossip. Be careful of this and speak not and do not give way to evil behavior. One year is the time that you must abstain from unseemly levity but if you can not do this for ceremony, ten days is the time to regard these things for respect."
109. At the funeral of a War Chief, say:
110. At the funeral of a Warrior, say:
111. At the funeral of a young man, say:
112. At the funeral of a chief woman, say:
113. At the funeral of a woman of the people, say:
114. At the funeral of an infant or young woman, say:
115. When an infant dies within three days, mourning shall continue only five days. Then shall you gather the little boys and girls at the house of mourning and at the funeral feast a speaker shall address the children and bid them be happy once more, though by a death, gloom has been cast over them. Then shall the black clouds roll away and the sky shall show blue once more. Then shall the children be again in sunshine.
116. When a dead person is brought to the burial place, the speaker on the opposite side of the Council Fire shall bid the bereaved family cheer their minds once again and rekindle their hearth fires in peace, to put their house in order and once again be in brightness for darkness has covered them. He shall say that the black clouds shall roll away and that the bright blue sky is visible once more. Therefore shall they be in peace in the sunshine again.
117. Three strings of shell one span in length shall be employed in addressing the assemblage at the burial of the dead. The speaker shall say:
Then at the expiration of ten days the speaker shall say:
In substance this shall be repeated for every one who assisted in any way until all have been remembered.
tl;dr - just post the link next time.
where were these laws recorded? great post
Congressional Resolution 331, a short response to db's Longfellow recognition of our ancestors' Constitution:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/hconres331.pdf
Welcome to Modern Day llusion of Democracy.
People sponsored by the rich, make false promises to the masses to get elected. Distribute national wealth amongst themselves and their sponsors (Industrialists) and when that is not enough borrow money from rest of the world and continue the distribution process. The borrowed money has to be paid back by taxing the masses keeping in mind that tax rules are made such that the politicians and their sponsors pay minimum or no taxes.
End of political tenure, rinse and repeat till the whole system breaks down and the world wealth is cornered by a minuscule of the population.
www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40231.html
I love it. God bless the REAL American's. I was feeling doubtful about all of this, but the American people have proved me wrong. For once, I'm happy about being wrong! Happy Easter! God bless the patriots. PS...My Dad, Mom and Brother are going to the Bundy ranch forthe party tonight! I will report back.
An armed movement is just going to give the govt the excuse to send in the cavalry and slaughter its adherents. You're all going to ruin it for those of us who have avowed non-violence - you'll just further radicalize the govt.
When they come for the guns, I'll PEACFULLY protest, but let them have what they come for. I'll have my say, but until God steps in, they'll have their way.
Wow, Jesus would be dissapointed in you.
Your courage resides in your trigger-finger, not where it should be - in your mind and heart. You mention Jesus - he was non-violent, and he is my exemplar. No one can compare to him and to his example of courage in the face of tyranny. He moved mountains, so-to-speak, but it wasn't the kind of instant gratification you're all seeking. It took time.
When you slaughter your enemies you at the same time sow the seeds for more violence and bloodshed. It has to stop somewhere. Someone has to have the courage to stand up against violence while at the same time resisting tyranny. In the Vietnam War I was a CO. I stood before the draft board and told them I wouldn't go. Then I told them I would be at my home address, not running away to Canada or Mexico. I was fully prepared to go to prison - many of my friends did. The draft was abolished just before they called my number, so it was a very narrow 'escape' for me.
You have to have the courage of your convictions, and true courage isn't in your trigger finger. It's in your heart and mind. What if you lost your gun? Would you cave?
If you allow yourself to be disarmed by the same men who would enslave you, you are nothing but a coward.
It takes a great deal of courage to resist violence in a situation where your life is endangered. I would never call such a man a coward.
You people learn nothing from history - all thru history one group of men have enslaved another, and the enslaved violently overthrow their masters. Nothing is solved. It just breeds more and more of the same. Those once enslaved come to power and become intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them (as you guys are here toward me) and they in turn enslave their opponents. What it all boils down to at its essence: there's very little difference between you people and what you hate. There's not enough difference to make me want to support you, that's for damn sure!
Sen. Reid et al are intolerant and want to abuse, enslave and kill those who dare to oppose them. You are not much different. Your guns and your fervor for them, as if they are a sacrament, breed intolerance and violence. You haven't the courage to stand up to be different, even at the possible loss of your own life. Many of you probably claim to be Christians - but you trample on everything Jesus stood for, not the least of which is a hatred for slaughter and killing, because it just plays into the hands of those who want more and more of the same. It's an orgy for you people - you love it.
Joe Tierney, relax, most of those on this site worshipping guns I suspect have not checked their own for rust lately unless of course they were using them in a mastabatory fantasy. Much hatred here looking for an excuse to shoot anything yet lacking the balls to go any further than their keyboards
Which means all your down votes are really upvotes
I just checked my old J. C. Higgins .22 bolt action and you're correct. It's rusty and dusty and unusable. It always shot to the left anyway so no great loss.
Anyway, most of us here have lost our guns in unfortunate boating accidents. They sleep with the fishes.
Yeah, I think you're at least partially right. Maybe they should all go back to their video games.
I think you need to read up on Jesus.
http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/tabid/109/ID/398/The-Law-Of-The-Swo...
I'll take facts about Jesus from the Bible, not from some radical, violent activist. You make God in your own image.
Joe T. I hope your not the scumbag brother of John Tierney "also a scumbag" the Masshole politician who's wife got caught money laundering. You sure do sound like him.
//Uh, gee - you think that's my real name, huh?
New International Version (NIV)
Jesus at the Temple12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”
I'm sure you realize that in chasing the robbers out of the temple Jesus did no serious bodily harm to any of them.
Translation: you'll keep bending over.
Never.
A few thousand dedicated partisans can indeed defeat the most powerful military in the world.
Two case studies:
1. American Revolution
2. Iraq War
fuck you, fuck your mom, and fuck your faggot-ass dad.
You'll have to do your own killing - I won't do it for you.
New International Version (NIV)
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Man, talk about twisting the Scriptures to your own liking!
Read the rest of his statement - thru verse 39. He went on to say that a man's enemies will be persons OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD, because one accepts his words and teachings but the rest of that man's immediate family does not. Then, he stated that the man that seeks to cling to his own life at the expense of disobeying God would loose his life, but the one that was willing to die rather than disobey God would live, if not in this life, then in a better one.
Nothing in this statement or context has anything to do with justifying a Christian killing others - I repeat - NOTHING!
Stop using God to justify your own violence and hatred.
He stated that the man that lives by the sword will die by the sword - and he stated that right after Peter struck a guy with a sword and chopped off his ear, and Jesus healed that man of his injury. The meaning is crystal clear - Jesus did not support any violence against anyone, and he lived up to his beliefs.
Re Stop using God to justify your own violence and hatred.
Huh?
Speak for yourself.
Jesus said "Turn the other cheek and resist not evil" to keep us alive to fight the good fight on a high calling, not become low life losr cowards.
(ZH was briefy online after being spotty all day.)
Best wishes for justice, life, liberty, peace and prosperity all.
Please define "fight the good fight on a high calling" from the Scriptures. If you refer to using guns or other weapons against your fellowman then you won't find that justified anywhere in the Scriptures.
The Christian's fight is a spiritual one, with spiritual "weapons", not physical ones. And if you think peace-loving people ("the meek" according to Jesus at Matthew 5:5) are "low life losr cowards" then you know absolutely NOTHING about either the Scriptures or true Christianity.
You will reap what you are sowing. So will I.
Never posted peace-loving people ("the meek" according to Jesus at Matthew 5:5) are "low life losr cowards".
Most Oathkeepers and war veterans love and defend our Bill of Rights and peace from government abuse.
We all know guns weren't invented when the Bible was written.
There is plenty of righteous violence in the Old and New Testaments from slingshots to swords to spears:
I came to bring fire to the earth and how I wish it were already kindled! Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.Luke 12:49-51
And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.Luke 22:35-38
There is no condemnation in the Lord.
Peace be with you.