This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Bitcoin Tumbles After BTC China Halts Funding Amid Concerns PBOC About To Get Serious
Bitcoin prices tumbled almost 15% as Chinese bitcoin exchange BTC China announced it has stopped accepting RMB deposits to user accounts from a major bank. As Coindesk reports, Management decided to proactively halt deposits from one of the country’s largest banks, China Merchants Bank, after the bank posted on its public website that it would no longer allow its customers to engage in bitcoin-related transactions, and said essentially it would require all such businesses to close their accounts. Withdrawals, of course, are allowed, but as Coindesk goes on to note, that while the PBOC's 'official' policy on Bitcoin has not changed since December, this 'pre-emptive' move may suggest he PBOC would soon set stricter rules about how its earlier edicts should be followed.
As Coindesk reports, management decided to proactively halt deposits from one of the country’s largest banks, China Merchants Bank, after the bank posted on its public website that it would no longer allow its customers to engage in bitcoin-related transactions, and said essentially it would require all such businesses to close their accounts.
A rough translation of BTC China’s Weibo post reads:
“Due to a notice issued by China Merchants Bank, BTC China, out of consideration for user security and stabilization operations, decided to suspend the credit of accounts with RMB.
For subsequent updates, please pay attention to our website and Twitter, thank you again for your interest and support of BTC China.”
BTC China CEO Bobby Lee said his company had not yet any direct notifications from any of its banking partners, but was ready to act should such information arrive. Apart from the China Merchants Bank website posting, which did not specify any exchange by name, no other banks have stated their intentions as yet.
This followed reports last week that financial institutions were preparing to sever links with bitcoin exchanges, after closed session meetings with People’s Bank representatives.
...
The PBOC itself has continued to deny that it will ban bitcoin outright, though it has not made any public statements about how it intends to restrict digital currency use in the country.
...
The meetings were reportedly more grave in tone than on previous occasions, suggesting the PBOC would soon set stricter rules about how its earlier edicts should be followed. As well as preventing users from funding their bitcoin exchange accounts, the new guidelines could eventually limit their ability to withdraw from bitcoin and litecoin into yuan as well.
»
- 19689 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
That's the case for anything including hard assets. You have the freedom of your own opinion, which doesn't matter when it comes to the real cost to produce it.
i think you're just listening to the hype and not really thinking things through.
don't worry about what 1 BTC is actually "worth".
think about the value, though of being able to instantaneously transfer money, anywhere in the world, with no capital controls, no central authority telling you where you can move your money and with what restrictions and what amounts, with no "holds" on the money.
think about the 3% more you have to pay with every online purchase you make, due to skimming by banks and credit card companies - that adds up to a lot of money.
there is some real value there, and you can deny it if you want, but others will use btc to improve their lives and their financial positions.
Eactly
But the hoarders of Bitcoin are fucking up the utility of it.
Don't understand why hoarders do harm. Isn't store of value a utility?
"But the hoarders of Bitcoin are fucking up the utility of it."
That needed to be repeated!
What value is something that is meant to be circulated if it's not being circulated? It's kind of feeling like the USD!
Free BTC! (free Corzine too!)
The sooner you get this stuff out into everyone's hands then the sooner it can actually get traction. And, all the virtues of it being able to upend the current system and everything (unlike the PMS, which are clearly not a mechanism for creating hidden transaction systems)!
Localbitcoins.com Bitstamp.net There are Bitcoins for sale, not everybody is hoarding them.
stacking12321: I have had a few discussions with "seek" about BC. As you probably know, he's one of the most knowledgeable people on this site when it comes to BC. I've set up a Multibit account and seek has tranfered a small amount of BC to me which I returned to him so I could check out how it worked.
But here's why BC doesn't work for me, and seek tends to agree with my situation (Hi seek, I see you're on this thread):
- I never have, and never will, transfer "millions" across a border or even small amounts.
- All of my purchases are local. I don't buy stuff on the internet.
- I've bought several of WB7's art works using MoneyGram transfers that are quite inexpensive and the transaction happens in mere seconds from N.America to Hong Kong. The volitilaty of BC is nuts compared to any FX conversion between USD & HKD. And there's still the fact that WB7 doesn't do BC.
As LawsofPhysics keeps reminding us here, "When SHTF all markets will become local". I agree with that because SHTF with me on a personal level about 14 years ago and forced me to think locally, rather than globally. I also don't understand how the ability to transfer money around the world cheaply will help anyone if they can't leave their physical location anyway? Why would you want your wealth half way around the world and completely out of your control, even if you trust the other party to look after it for you, and assuming their location is stable?
I'm a big fan of anything that drains power from the banksters and if you can make it work to your advantage then all the power to you. But right now BC isn't of any use to me that I can see. I'm always open to suggestions and ideas.
Cheers
yup, seek is brilliant, one of my favorite zh posters.
as far as crossing borders, it doesn't even have to be millions...at a fairly low threshold of $10k you have to declare cash on you, which may lead to questions or confiscation by "authorities" (TSA or other such criminal types).
to your question about why i'd want my wealth halfway around the world and not under my control - i wouldn't!
i can very easily forsee a situation in the next 5 years where life in the US is unpalatable (it's getting more so every passing month), and i'd like to leave the country and take my $/au/ag/btc with me. with btc you don't even need to take it across a border, it can sit on a computer somewere and be easily accessed.
as far as local, btc can be used for local transactions as easily as for internet shopping. most merchants don't accept btc directly yet, but, that's ok, it's still early, and adpotion is increasing over time.
and as far as your comment on SHTF situation, let's face it - none of us really knows how that will play out, there's a wide range of possibilities in how extreme it will be. i view btc as a strong option for moving wealth at this time, but plan to keep an eye on how things develop.
"BTC is fiat..."
Left your fly open there, 813, as fiat is money created by government dictat and sustained as monopolized legal tender, while Bitcoin is created and sustained solely by the free market.
Of course, even fiat is also "worth exactly what people convince themselves it is worth," and when enough people convince themselves that it's not worth squat, that's exactly what it will be worth.
But where, then, will people turn for their money?
You guessed it.
You caught me, I was flattering BTC by calling it fiat. A bitcoin is already worthless, when the dollar reaches the same valuation at least I will be able to wipe my ass with it.
It is a unit of account. Is a centimeter or an inch worth something ? Nope. But CMs and inches have utility
Has value to the NSA (as does BTC).
Unicorn money?
Keeping the slaves in their slave pens.
Oh well.
And it will soon double as toilet paper.
It already does.
I like the soft subtleties of the $50 bill
My CDN paper money always survived the washing machine.
I would guess, that you wash your dollars so you can reuse them as toilet paper?
Any good currency can be washed and reused.
One should always wash their money.
It might be poo dollars.
The benefits, they never end..
Remember to ask the bit ches how all that works out with the brown finger...
Maybe, but Wall St sucks out 2-5 cents on every dollar you flip.
so then, that is why bitcoin must fail.
The threat will be met.
how well bitcoin succeeds, grows and develops is a future unknown at this point - maybe a great success or maybe will be superceded by some bitcoin 2.0.
what is certain, though, is that the dollar is failing and will fail soon:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2...
Currency Reform coming soon.
New Dollar, same as the Old Dollar.
Or maybe, New World Currency (new and improved Dollar).
Brute force will always fail in the end.
Brute Force is all there ever is. There is no "end". Just continuous Brute Force.
All that changes is: who controls the Brute Force?
Monkeys have been beating each other up for over 50 million years. That never changes.
Slavery, mass murder, genocide, destruction of enviroment, weapons of mass destruction aso. are a product of "civilized" mankind, not of nature or preneolithic tribesman. If we get rid of centralized powers and able to govern ourselves in the mode of consensus again, the world will become a better place. The consensus on currency is just the beginning.
Mankind was NEVER governed in a mode of consensus! Which Myth has misled you?
Government is the means by which policy is ENFORCED.
Government is always FORCE. It can be nothing else.
Coercion exists in nature and has always been a part of human societies. Nothing new under the Sun.
Early man had no regard for his environment. He trampled an area, moved on, and trampled another area.
Getting rid of any centralized powers only moves the brute force to a more local level.
WMD -- the Genie is out of the bottle.
Your comment "consensus on currency" makes me laugh. Consensus is a requirement of *any* currency!
The opposite of consensus is fiat. Dollar is fiat and we are forced to use it, because we have to pay taxes in Dollars, not grain or gold.
Government or state did not exist in preneolithic times, so there was no force.
Everly Brothers- "All I Have To Do Is Dream/Cathy's Clown" 1960 (Reelin' In The Years Archives)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTYe9eDqxe8 (5:43)
"how well bitcoin succeeds, grows and develops is a future unknown at this point - maybe a great success or maybe will be superceded by some bitcoin 2.0."
So, there's no other future possibility/outcome? Humans are destined to have crypto-currencies? All 7+ billion of us (even though most don't have access to internet or computers*)?
* In order to improve on this we'll need growth, and growth ain't looking too good right now.
That you can't conceive of a complete failure/non-acceptance of crytpo-currencies tells me that you'r projecting more on a desire than on possible outcomes: careful to confuse "possible" with "probable," the later is the turf I play on...
i don't claim to know the future.
but, what i can say for certain, is that bitcoin has VALUE!
for example, right now we are paying 3% on every credit card transaction.
as the global economy continues to flounder, that 3% margin is huge, and merchants will find it to be worth fighting for.
that's not even considering all the other issues with banks and credit cards that i'd like to avoid as a merchant, like fraud, chargebacks, bank holds, account fees, and restrictions on how, when, and where i can move money.
when something adds value, i fully expect it will catch on over time, just as surely as water will flow downhill.
you say i'm a dreamer, well, i'm not the only one! you're right, i can't conceive of a complete failure of cryptocurrencies, because, well, the way i view it, it's already a success. adoption levels may be low for now, and there's obstacles to be overcome such as public awareness and ease of use issues, but, that's ok, it's still very early in the game, give it time.
BTC may succeed, but it will only do so at a price. Regardless of whether people think everything should be free, the clearing and other activities provided by the existing system(s) does/do add a cost. Now, people can bicker as to what that price is, and I really cannot say (I can't remember), but my point here is that the FUNCTION will still likely have to layer on to the "chosen" crypto-currency, and that WILL command a level of charges.
TPTB have always taken over and hijacked popular stuff (religion is a good example). What once was ends up significantly distorted. After BTC is distorted (to fit into a "system") will it still be attractive?
that's a good question.
but, i don't dwell much on possibilities of what might happen.
right now, btc has value, so for the time being i will use it and support it.
If Bitcoin falls and ZeroHedge does not report, does it make a sound ??
None but those on Zero Hedge care what anyone on Zero Hedge, including the Tylers, say about Bitcoin anymore.
Gotta agree with you. Tyler(s) are way out of their depth when it comes to crypto.
They seem to understand page hit revenue when their regular echo-chamber chimps get all lathered-up over selectively biased "reporting" catering to their own self-reinforcing ideology though...
Had to laugh at the post that said that the bitcoin bubble had popped since all that bitcoin hardware was now being liquidated due to the plunge in price. As the Tyler(s) never tire of reminding us, they are Austrians. As Austrians they should know that all value is subjective (not intrinsic), and that subjective value is based on marginal utility and scarcity.
When the bitcoin prices plunged, mining became unprofitable to some and some participants (possibly leveraged) had to liquidate their hardware by selling it on e-bay. It is just the liquidation of capital from weaker into stronger hands, as happens when any other market is overvalued. Bitcoin has plunged but is now consolidating from a solid base, ready for the next spike. This is how free markets work, but for some reason the Tyler(s) can't seem to apply it to this market. More fool them.
Bitcoin has scarcity (21 million coins) and has utility as a medium of exchange AND as a store of value. I've quadrupled my wealth by holding bitcoin for the last year. I can't say the same for my gold or silver stash... yet...
BTC is not a store of value. Its guys like you who think it does that damages the utility of them. They are a unit of account and a medium of exchange.
It's been the best store of value of any commodity in the last five years. It has gone from zero to over 1100 dollars. Its down in the 400 hundreds now sure, but I bought most of mine for under $ 100 dollars each. Please tell me what other commodity has a better store of value since 2009?
Given a short enough timeframe ANYTHING can be viewed as being successful.
I'm sure that Beanie Baby collectors also had thriving books before the craze ended.
"Please tell me what other commodity has a better store of value since 2009?"
My Ag property. Not only has it EARNED money (none of this play shit having to do with speculation- it's actually PRODUCED shit!) it has provided me with my heating needs (wood). And on the "virtual" side the assessment has risen: tax formulas had actually decreased my property taxes, in which case the increased assessment didn't equate to increased property taxes (did I ever say never use the word "never?"). Oh, and I can actually dwell within it, not ON it. OK... a bit of hyperbole here, but my point is I have actually had an interaction with my "investment," an interaction that centers around my lifestyle, provides something of value on a daily basis, it's what I've accepted the future to be (whether I am "right" or "wrong"). If I am "wrong" I face little in the way of economic hit (and factoring in lifestyle I'd say that there really cannot be any). For crtypto-currency speculators? Each person needs to assess things based on his/her own needs... (be sure to understand the difference between "need" and "want")
Yup!
"This is how free markets work, but for some reason the Tyler(s) can't seem to apply it to this market. More fool them."
Folks stuck in theory-land are often burned when they open the door to the real world (welcome to hell!)
As most here would remind you, we have nothing at all that is a "free market."
BTC's/crypto-currencies future will be decided like all other large-scale socio-political/socio-economic systems- by governments. And in this day and age of computer-based terrorism (one can retute the actual existence, but here I'm talking about the perception pushed by the folks with large squads of goons and massive arsenals and communication abilities) in no way will it stay the virgin that it currently is.
If one is trying to protect oneself from a pool of sharks I think it better to not dawn what one thinks is a shark-proof suit and jump in, but to perhaps jump into some other pool... Darwin never suggested that all genes would survive...
You vastly over estimate the power of governments. They have control of your life, until they lose control. When the dollar crashes it's game over for the governments. If they try and kill the internet then they kill the banking system they are also so reliant on for their power, not to mention the IRS, NSA and others. Whichever way you look at it, the government, its Military Industrial Complex and its Surveillance cannot survive in their current form. When hyperinflation hits how are these spooks and bureaucrats and arms companies gonna get paid, or do you think they are gonna work for free?
Governments cannot create wealth, they can only steal it. If there's no wealth left to steal, they are fucked.
"You vastly over estimate the power of governments."
And you vastly under-estimate my ability to over-estimate! Or, was that that you vastly over-estimate my ability to under-estimate?
"They have control of your life, until they lose control."
And how many governments have you been through in your lifetime that you've witnessed losing control?
I'm sorry to report that your reply has me totally baffled about what it is you're trying to present here: I've been here for more years than I'd like to admit, and over all those years I have often stated that "ALL SYSTEMS FAIL," and, as much as I am aware, though I do not read every single article and every single comment, I am the only one who has made this statement (should I trademark it); so... if you want to talk collapse senarios feel free to find me very well versed (goes MANY more years back than just here at ZH).
"Governments cannot create wealth, they can only steal it. If there's no wealth left to steal, they are fucked."
If there's nothing left then they don't exist: fucked is the part/point at which they realize that there's no more growth with which to keep the interest ponzi going. "Interest" is what enables govts. All this is well and good, but ultimately the question comes down to this: What are YOU personally going to to about "it?" Pointing fingers at the obvious is, well, pointing fingers (doing so and going "bang, bang" will only get you tossed into the cage).
When it rises, do the ZH trash posters ever put in a good word? If you had sold all your gold and silver in 2013 and bought bitcoin you would be laughing now.
Would you like that report on a daily or weekly basis?
"If you had sold all your gold and silver in 2013 and bought bitcoin you would be laughing now."
I sometimes laugh when I encounter a moment of total dismay. Is that what you're referring to?
I really can't get how the Tylers hate on Bitcoin. They can love their shiny stuff too. But we haven't had a shot at reclaiming money as good as this for a very long while. I just paid a developer in Prague with 2 clicks, instant (cleared and settled), and a tiny fee...and no bank was ever involved.
China can try to ban Bitcoin, but it will backfire in a big way. There are already cryptos like Darkcoin that will make any form tracability non-existent. The more the Chinese or any other authoritarian gov tries to clamp down on Bitcoin the more popular it will become. The only negative about Bitcoin is the ability to trace transaction through the blockchain, but with Darkcoin that will become almost impossible. The age of anonymous electronic money/assets is upon us and there isn't a damn thing any government can do about it.
http://razorsforex.blogspot.com/2014/02/darkcoin-anonymous-cryptocurrenc...
I admire the spirit of cryptos, but transactions are entirely dependent on a free and functional internet. That is the domain of big gov.
What are they gonna do, turn off the internet? At this point it is check-mate for them and they know it, the only thing they can do is join in.
What world do you live in? Internet traffic can be easily monitored and filtered.
The US has spent considerable time and energy convincing the world that the dollar is worth something, I don't think WWIII will be fought over BTC.
Look what happened to file sharing. Imagine that, but in encrypted format with no central authority to attack/takedown. How do you stop something like that? What are you gonna monitor or filter? Any form of filtering has a workaround.
Let me know when you figure it out!
A handful of nerds will find their workarounds, the larger public wants to pay with their 'smart'phones. That's why they are called smartphones. By the time darkcoin can be used in an easy way, without traces, in let's say, 10% of all transactions, you will be using small bottles of booze for barter.
Have you not noticed that the US govt has been engaged in extra-judicial killings? That is, all that is required is that one is "suspect." How do you think that they paint their bullseyes? It's called pattern-matching. At some point the patterns of crypto-currency transactors will be readily identified. And if not? I'm sure that your widow will hear all about it in a court of law, just like all the other folks who were pattern-matched to death.
Let me know when you can come out into the real world to play.
TPTB can DOS the miners.
TPTB can DOS the miners anytime they desire.
the powers that be are too big to fail.
The Internet is and was functional in Iraq while the Gulf War was being fought. If things get so bad there is no Internet, your gold and silver will be worthless, you will be living in Mad Max territory.
It is entirely possible that we are entering Mad Max territory based on recent events. If things get so bad that there is no internet, then food, water, and shelter will be most valuable of all.
Silver and gold will buy far more of those necessities than your triple-encrypted USB drives.
"then food, water, and shelter will be most valuable of all."
Actually, seeing as these are the three most basic needs for survival I'd have to state that they're valuable ALL THE TIME. They are, have been, and always will be my first focal points.
The most valuable thing are your neighbours. Are they sitting on their stack waiting for the Power Rangers to save them, or are they organizing a controlled revolution.
I have both bitcoin and precious metals. You still have nothing to teach.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! Spoilsport!
But, Big Brother loves us! (hello NSA!)
NYDFS said that they will be releasing regulations by the end of Q2 2014. After this happens the price is going to skyrocket again.
Central Banks need gold, rather than BTC, to be the store of value. If/when interest rates normalize, their solvency will depend upon value of gold. If digital fiat alternative succeeds, the lose power /control. They may suppress gold, but a successful bitcoin is significantly greater that to TPTB as it also threatens transactional tax/churn business model.
The central banks are giving all that gold and silver away to China and India. None of them are solvent in the West.
But how are you hearing this? And for the US, since it's books aren't audited (thanik you Ron Paul for trying) how would anyone know how much it has?
By looking at the grade of the gold delivered from the West, which is now .9 grade - Napoleonic.
Oh noes, BTFD. /sarc
Just checked my gold, silver, steal and lead.
All good. Sleeping like babies.
Wake your lead up.
Barry is flying back in a day or two.
Zombies breed. The System will just make more of him/them.
Saving the steal, as in blade, for that.
WTF, silver collapsed from over $35 an ounce to under $20 dollar an ounce over the last 12 months. What planet you on?
sounds like he's in the real world.
every 1 oz of silver he had, is still 1 oz of silver. no collapse there.
now, what planet are you on?
maybe instead of paying attention to the manipulated currency called the dollar, pay attention to what's really going on?
www.kingoftherepublic.com
You have nothing to teach me.
That appears to be the problem, you are unteachable.
That's merely your own limitation: you are unable to learn but the things you aren't learning are very important.
I live on a planet where just a single country creates enough fiat money every 6 days to purchase the entire World's yearly Silver mining output.
It's great to be king!
But they don't - otherwise they would push the price of silver somewhere up near Jupiter or Saturn. Instead it is all channelled into the Ponzi Schemes known as the Stock Market , the Housing Bubble , Credit Swaps , Derivatives etc .. Each one a monumental Pyramid Scheme which requires careful and managed nurturing to continue it's cancerous growth. But like all Tumours , it will have to be either removed or it will eventually kill it's host. And it's already metastasised many times over ..
I live on a planet where bitcoins are limited by design, the central banks cannot print them willy nilly. But NVM, keep all your eggs in the one basket if you must.
and yet the total value of bitcoins is limited by the atoms they are made of:
they aren't made of any atoms so they have no value, together, in total, no matter how many or how few there are.
The real world, planet Earth: where the price of silver in fiat is meaningless for the re-sell because do not ever re-sell. The ATOMS of silver didn't devalue at all. They depend on the laws of PHYSICS, not the demands of fiat.
Silver is medicine, silver is an excellent conductor & silver makes good mirrors. Silver's a reactive catalyst & has enough uses to fill an encyclopedia by itself.
Bitcoin can do none of these things.
The one thing that doesn't matter is the fiat price once you already have the silver atoms.
http://fiatleak.com/
Bitcoin. I like Shitcoin--it's sprayed with Liquid Ass and has a picture of Mr. Lahey from the Trailer Park Boys on it. There's your digital currency.
Bitcoin......built on fiat............dies with fiat..............first TPTB prototype.......
Not built or dependent on fiat. Go study.
The Abstraction... Not built or dependent on fiat. Go study.
--
And bitcoin is priced in what? Oh yea, fiat dollars. Get some logic.
You could price dollars in lumps of turd , same as you can price bitcoins in gold , your statement is really dumb - ass.
No one has any intention of using bitcoin as a price-unit for inventory.
Or for services.
No one finding/producing bitcoin has any desire for it but to get fiat dollars, more than initial input cost.
Period.
.
study complete: it does.
Fiat pays the power companies.
Fiat pays the Internet infrastructure.
Fiat pays the sellers of bitcoins.
Fiat pays the income that is used to buy bitcoins.
Bitcoin mining rigs are sold for fiat, not bitcoin.
Control is control. If TPTB find a way to control it they will: and those holding current trinkets will get flushed in favor of the "trusted" brand, sorry, it's not what I want, it's how TPTB play. And if they cannot find a way to control it they'll nuke all of it: this appears to be the chosen path*.
* I could put an interesting twist in this and say that since China is currently clamping down that they could be doing so in order to protect gold; the US/West, no longer(?) holds gold and might look to do a quick swtich to a crypto-currency just to force China into a losing hand (assumes that the US/West can convince enough trading countries to go along with scheme- seems like, based on shit like Bretton Woods that it has a chance of success [folks just keep falling for the same tricks!]).
If a type of money is used by the banks then it is contolled by the banks ... end of story.
That explains why gold is controlled.
The Abstraction... That explains why gold is controlled.
----
It explains why everything is controlled, including bitcoin
No one but me controls the gold atoms in my possession, same with silver.
And yes it is.
And if the power goes out it's STILL gold.
It's a small planet. It'll be hard to not touch elbows with even those you do not like.
Most folks who haven't had boating accidents most likely don't have bankers hanging around. And I doubt that the NSA is likely going to be hanging around everywhere there are boating survivors. With crypto-currencies you're opening the door and entering THEIR domain.
Controlled price. Controlled use...
China wants their people in gold and silver. Btc can be shut down by one mouse click, by the NSA or some other entity. You are more vulnerable as a society when many are into cryto's.
uh, where can it be shut down? I didn't read that part. Troll.
Exchanges can be shut down by governments, and i have no doubt that certain intel services can crash transactions. Btc is a setup in my opinion. Of course, the philosophy behind btc is good, but the manipulators have an open mind for war, and a few bits and bites won't stand in their way.
"but the manipulators have an open mind for war"
"but the manipulators have an open mind for CONTROL" - Fixed!
Honorable Kim, Sir,
the NSA and Cohorts have enough computing power to DOS the miners.
At all the major junctions for Internet Service Providers, no more than 10 in each country, would shut down that entire country's Internet. You could then use a combination of legal, police or military actions to shut each down.
If you people think you can all sit on your silver and gold and come out rich, you are dead wrong. When things collapse it will be a battle just to survive. The countries you live in now will not have the same borders or same racial profile as you have known your lives. Gold and silver bugs never fought hard enough. All the metal has gone to India and China.
Its not the case of being the men with the money in a time of poverty, but being the men with metal in the time of anarchy. Face it we failed. Absolute global anarchy, and this attitude of 'I'm all right Jack, Ive got my lead, silver and gold' is complacent bullshit.
The Abstraction... If you people think you can all sit on your silver and gold and come out rich, you are dead wrong. When things collapse it will be a battle just to survive. The countries you live in now will not have the same borders or same racial profile as you have known your lives. Gold and silver bugs never fought hard enough. All the metal has gone to India and China.
Its not the case of being the men with the money in a time of poverty, but being the men with metal in the time of anarchy. Face it we failed. Absolute global anarchy, and this attitude of 'I'm all right Jack, Ive got my lead, silver and gold' is complacent bullshit
---
This is a bitcoin thread, so I will take it back to that theme. Your entire post regarding dire times and PMs also applies to bitcoin. In such times of anarchy, one will be literally, physically fighting for survival. Bitcoin will be the last on most people's minds.
Keep in mind, I have said for years, that PMs decline in a deflationary period and I do believe we face deflationary times. All assets generally tend to decline and bitcoin is just a speculative asset at this time since it can't be used widely to settle debts that most people have. PERIOD.
"In such times of anarchy, one will be literally, physically fighting for survival. Bitcoin will be the last on most people's minds."
LoL! Dear attacker, would you mind waiting while I break out my iThing/computer and whip you out some crypto-currency?
If one is fortunate one can take a PM brick and at least smash some attacker over the head with it. Yeah, macho and all, but if you're gonna die I'm thinking that I'd like to do it in less of a sissy-fied way...
But this does bring up an interesting discussion about the value of "stored wealth" when fleeing. The crypto-currency folks say that you can "safely" transfer your "wealth" elsewhere. When I think "survival" I tend to think of my physical self, meaning as my body travels along treacherous paths I MAY have a better chance of paying my way with something PHYSICAL than something virtual; note that in a chaotic environment one probably shouldn't assume that techno-stuff will function. But, who knows, maybe the future will be filled with iThugs who cannot identify physical things and can only "trust" virtual things?
I can run faster with my gold than my silver.
However, I can stuff my silver maples & wafer bars into a sock and bash an invader/robber in the head very, very easily compared to trying that with my gold.
You're dreaming in LSD technicolor if you think any disaster will wipe out gold & silver as money but not wipe out all human bodies period. Never happens.
The next step up after big bombs is big nukes and that leaves everything vaporized. No combat possible.
Migrating, having lead, silver & gold, is the most anti-complacent move any human can make or ever will.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rmobXfLzo4
Yawn*. Bitcoin will prevail as always. Very few of you sheep are forward thinkers, unlike me, the great Kim Jong Un. I am buying BTC daily as a few dollars either way doesn't matter. Wake up, sheep. At least make it a challenge for me to rule you. It's no fun this way.
My dad gave me better haircuts than yours.
And he was half blind and drunk on his ass.
Ha ha! It's Fonestar in disguise! I recgonize the twisted humor!
Ya, been prevailing pretty hard since 1200/btc ... if by "prevailing" you mean "sucking donkey cock"
But my shitcoins still have value unless my harddrive crashes.
That makes sense, right??
BTF-shitcoin-D.
You can store bitcoins in your head: Brain Wallet
I am currently storing PM in my head. I got a few grams of gold crowning an old rotten tooth.
When you youngins kill us fogies off, remember to keep the head.
Commies dont like Bitcoin, Shocked.
Just wait for the microchip. Tell us how shocked you are. You POS danster82. Just like Google glass's, you'll be gunned down on sight. Think about that. Bang, bang. Don't fucking blame us on your legacy cost bullshit game, you will get shot as well. Are we clear?
danster82 Commies dont like Bitcoin, Shocked.
---
Silly dandster. Commies and lefties don't like anything, including themselves.
if Fonestar is still riding this rocket, it might be time for a fresh coat of lube.
fonestar's pocket rocket all lubed up in highly flammable cryptassium-nitrate. The hardcore crypo-anarchist is in this to kill this!
Just wouldn't be the same without you here.
That's possibly better than blobbing up 'bitmoneyism'!
I thought they caught that Satoshi scondrel a couple months in Los Angeles. What did he escape. Don't let him get away.
China and other countries are beyond the talking stage and are working on a non-US controlled Internet (thanks to the NSA and the US tech companies that gave the NSA all their backdoors). You can assume all the Asian nations and most of the EU would be happy to prevent NSA snooping. China dropping Bitcoin does not offer much hope for crypto currencies in the non-US internet.
"Bitcoin is just like email"
Totally agree, worthless shit.
Making it "fully independent" of all other processes makes it worthless, untraceble, just like dog shit on the pavement.
I will never buy this uselss bitcoin.
"I will never buy this uselss bitcoin. "
Time will prove you, since the bar gets higher and higher.
if you have any of those worthless shit bitcoins I'll take them off your hands for $100 usd each. I'll transfer my digital valuable pulled out of Yellens pussy USD for those shitty bitcoins. We have a little difference of opinion is all.
They're not even worth $5, you're over-paying.
Lol..."Bitcoin tumbles...", "Oh no, the sky is falling!"
Just goes to show, some people never get tired of looking stupid...and it's the same ones every time.
No - really - this time it's different.
fonestar bears the ethernal flame of stubitididy.
Bitcoin, like silver, a falling knife.
It's why I take PHYSICAL to its fullest extent- Ag land. It only grows. Unlike everything else discussed here it is a real investment (no intention of selling- it's an income-earning asset, it actually ADDs something REAL to the world).
ag land is a great idea, i've thought about buying, but in the us, political risk is too high, risk of taxation / confiscation. maybe in another country, though.
The real substance of a Bitcoin is that it is NOT attached to any central banking authority , at least at first blush. It can be a mechanism for unhindered prosperity because of it's interest free use. Once it takes hold as a trusted means of local and international trade , then it's utility will be realized. Of course the central bankers feel threatened. I hope there is an Andrew Jackson like Chinaman in the wings waiting to rout them out. The store of value aspect will fill in naturally with the general acceptance of Bitcoins. No more insurmountable ( on purpose ) debt burdens - wouldn't that be a more comfortable way to live ?
So, unlike every other thing in human history we've managed to come up with something that defies all human deception and diversion?
I think that the marketing hype is getting a bit heavy.
"t can be a mechanism for unhindered prosperity because of it's interest free use."
NOTHING IS FREE!
Further, no one says that I am forced to demand interest if I give fiat currency to someone as a loan. The "interest free use" has nothing to do with the token, it has everything to do with how it is agreed to use/pass the token. Saying that one knows how it will/always be used needs to go to the back of the room and sit down...
Funny that you talk about "Chinaman in the wings," from http://surveillance.rsf.org/en/china/
The Internet in China42.1% have access. What happens with the other 58.9% And how literate are any of these 1.34 billion people to crypto-currencies? I realize the argument that there will be expansion, but in this day and age of contractionary forces I don't think that it's the slam dunk that most would otherwise believe it could be.
How many people have gold? A lot less than 42.1%. You do know it is quite possible to invest in PM along side cryptocoins?
Cryptocoins aren't investment, they are a very poor bet that a person with tangibles will want to trade (not likely, not me ever) and that grids won't go down (also a very bad bet) when you most need to use money (like to restore downed grids)
Good thing people who have no grids, no electricity, temporarily or permanently, have no need for money.
Oh, what's that you say, everyone will be using bitcoin?
Not enough grids operative now or in the future to support this.
The more they try to kill it the more of a threat Bitcoins are to the world's central banking systems and the elite. You better buy in now because there is a reason why this type of (negative) information makes it way to the populous. There is a reason why effort is being made to form and shape your opinion on Bitcoins. Read between the lines and do a little research on the EU, IMF, Fed Reserve and you will understand.
"You better buy in now because there is a reason why this type of (negative) information makes it way to the populous."
Hey! I recognize you. You were pushing residential realestate a while back, no? You know, I was the one saying that I thought things were in a bubble and you told me that prices NEVER go down. How's business?
BTW - Do a little research on the NSA (you'll understand - just google "NSA control the internet")
Uhh . no not me. Anyway, if there wasn't an agenda, this information would never make it to you. Just sitting at your computer and this news just comes to you,, way too easy. Think about it for a second and use common sense. Look at the big picture.
I have the Big Picture in my wallet. I carry it around with me all the time. I'm very familiar with it.
Bitcoins are destructive in nature. Every transaction goes further to erode the world's natural resources and drives the price of energy up for everyone else on the planet. Bitcoin is duoomedto failure for no reason other than this. Just like world trade, at some point the energy required just isn't worth it.
Yeah, I know this, but we still have business to conduct before it all goes to hell...
Interesting that China thinks and acts differently about Gold and BitCoin....