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The West Prepares: These Are All NATO Aircraft Deployments In Response To The Ukraine Crisis
It's all the Russians' fault? This does not exactly look like de-escalation to us...
Source: @IHS4DefRiskSec
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MH-370 Location Known all along, so say's CIA 'remote sensing' company scanning sea's for loot'
March 10, just a few days after the plane was sent to Diego Garcia it was ditched north.
The MSM is saying "Pay not attention to these findings, everybody knows the plane is in the South Indian Ocean, and not in the North"
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-georesonance-wr...
Which NATO plane is the best?
So I've been doing some analysis here as to which NATO aircraft will have the highest kill ratio against the Russian Su-35. The answer is a surprising one.
Before I get to it---> Does it seem strange to you Russia-lovers that we do not see F-35s being deployed? Just how shitty is the F-35 anyways? Or is the F-35 the secret "trump" card (or Bluff card?)?
Did the manufacturer ask to keep the F-35 out of the frey in order to avoid future loss of future sales?
Back to the question:
Which of the NATO fighter aircraft do you think has the biggest teeth with the hardest bite in this fight?
Rafale? Typhoon? F-16? F-15?...Gripen?
I think the toughest dog-fighter/best electronic warfare/modern avionics/Missile hurling Bear eater is the Gripen with the Typhoon coming in a close second. What is your opinion?
There aren't enough F35s to matter.
The SU-35s are good. But nothing the Russians have is totally dominant.
Their tactical Air Defenses are superior. But their strategic Air Defenses a touch weaker - though it is a close call.
Their tanks are inferior in the current generation of tanks - but they have a lot more of them.
But all of this is sound and fury signifying nothing.
People are not going to live better because of these rivalries. They're empty.
It disappoints me when the Russians think that militarily bullying and killing people proves their manhood - same for us Americans. It is a useless game that produces nothing worth having.
I had hoped we were beyond that.
Everyone should have known Obama was not competent on the World stage. It was clear that he was a creature of the Marxist lobby right from the beginning.
Signing the Patriot Act, and not clearly articulating what they thought it meant, should have been the end of the Bush administration - and eventually it was. His followers are out.
Hopefully one of these criminal fiascos and scandals will get Obama admin people lawfully, impeached, lawfully tried, and lawfully guillotined.
Then we can try the next asshole. Or if we are wise we'll cut so much power out of the job that the damage a single asshole can do will be limited.
I don't know what to do about Putin. He is like a bad coin. He just keeps turning up. Seems like Russia simply can't find any way to limit the damage any particular politician can do.
"I had hoped we were beyond that."
Priceless!
During the cold war, NATO war planners estimated that a pilot had a 10% chance of surviving his first 10 missions if a war would break out. I don't think it will be any different this time. A major role will be played by drones and cruise missiles taking out forward command posts.
That implies an attrition rate of 90% perhaps worse as the pilot has the opportunity to depart a failed aircraft.
Under such a scenario the player with the largest stock of aircraft has the best chance of winning provided all else is equal.
So then will the US block 500 nuclear warheads?TThe thing the US always relies on is the wars and trouble they cause is always on somebody elses soil, bring that war to their borders and the will suddenly weakens.
Count the Air-to-air missiles on each aircraft...that is the number to consider. (;-/)
Common sense tells us that there is no winning a nuclear war. That is, unless you're a sociopathic mass-murderer already hidden from the world making game theory decisions to accumulate even more power and imagined wealth.
An interesting bit of game theory here is from a video game where an Orwellian world has three superpowers locked in eternal war. It is a stalemate of religion, totalitarianism, building weapons, and cleaning up radioactive waste.
"You've heard of the 100 year war? Try the 1700 year war. The three remaining nations have been locked in an eternal death struggle for almost 2000 years. Peace seems to be impossible. Every time a cease fire is signed, the Vikings will surprise attack me or the Americans the very next turn, often with nuclear weapons. Even when the U.N forces a peace treaty. So I can only assume that peace will come only when they're wiped out. It is this that perpetuates the war ad infinitum."
Interestingly many who have played the game develop very Orwelian strategies, one of the most telling:
"There is... a possible solution, but you will not like it. It will require you to give up your ideals, your ambitions, and your honor.
You must sacrifice yourself, your nation, and your people, to assure peace for mankind. You must ally yourself with the Americans, or the Vikings, and as short as the alliance will last, you need this edge.
Throw yourself at the remaining enemy. He must be crippled beyond repair. Your ally will turn on you, this is expected. You will die, this is expected. Your armies will lose, this is expected. Your enemy will not be defeated, not by you, this is expected.
You will cripple your enemy, and mortally wound yourself, and your temporary ally will destroy you. But he will also defeat your enemy. And peace will return to mankind."
http://www.reddit.com/comments/uxpil/ive_been_playing_the_same_game_of_c...
When you here these words, Be afraid, be very afraid:
" I need no declaration of war from Congess, I get my authority from UN and NATO to start the fighting"
or on MSM channels,
"Today, Mr Obama ask for a resolution from the UN to ask NATO to protect the Ukraine so he can send more military support"
Mr Obama the Only US President to be head of an UN secruity council meeting, Mr Obama serves many masters
http://www.whitehouse.gov/video/President-Obama-at-UN-Security-Council-S...
This alone would be enough to oust Mr Obama
An 'american' world requires people not to have a memory.
When you take a look at the way they developed their technology, they have put a lot of effort in providing tools to avoid memorizing. That is because 'americans' run a large human selection program on a world scale.
It is funny for an 'american' to try and hide behind the UN as it is well known that 'americans' bypassed the UN on the war against Iraq.
The UN is an empty shell to serve 'american' interests over the world.
As to Obama bypassing congress, he was also the first president in decades close to bring a war issue to the Congress.
And who saved from that disaster? (since the 'american' middle class want the wars but wants not to bear the responsibility of triggering them) Putin, the chess player.
you've been hanging out at WalMart too much, fuckstick
I would add, "..., and those people are NOT the American Middle Class."
AnA:
You don't seem to be from around here. The American "Middle Class" (the AMC) is under attack from within the US; they do NOT want a war. It is the 1%-ers who will benefit from any war... the owners of the Military Industrial Complex. Add to that the oil/gas interests who would profit from a victory (and the AMC will lose again as their energy costs skyrocket). And Congress does not represent the AMC. No one does. They have been abandoned.
Also, lest you forget, the US got tacit UN approval on Iraq by lying, not by bypassing. And that was done by Gen Powell (who has since expressed his sincere regret) at the behest of Shrub Bush. The only country truly complicit on that one was the UK, as Tony Blair bought in on the bullshit.
Craig
Tacit UN approval? What is that? How does it work when you need written official papers, red tapes?
It was so a tacit UN approval that the 'american' negro in charge of the UN at those times showed his negro colours and told that the war was illegal regarding UN standards.
As to the 'american' middle class not wanting wars, how long will that song keep being sung?
Here're two scenes:
An army recruitment, a guy standing outside, he is weeping.
During the King's times, this guy was a poor fellow who was just force enlisted by a King's press gang.
In an 'american' society, this guy is a proud 'american' middle class guy whose application has just been rejected.
'American' middle classers want wars, what they require from their politicians though is not being connected to the declaration of war
In an 'american' society, politicians declare war and take the blame of it while the 'american' middle class take the benefits while keeping their cherry.
The time 'americans' start to behave like people who do not want wars, then there will be some material here.
For sake, in the US, during more than one century, 'americans' refused to serve negroes a drink of water or anything. To be compared with the treatment they give to their army forces.
Even witnessed somebody in the US who refused to serve a guy because he serves in the military?
The 'american' ways are known.
'Americans' are fully for murder and theft but they do not want to be considered murderers and thieves.
That is all the utility of their servants, the politicians who take the label for them. Frontmen, that is all.
100% correct....Fuckbama should be impeached for Libya alone....
Too bad none of the numbskulls in CONgress haven't the stones to put forth articles of impeachment for this piece of shit.
There will be no nukes in that area because the prevailing weather moves from west to east, for the Russians it would be like pissing against the wind with the fall out heading to moscow.
So does that mean that the Russians should bomb the USA and then let the "cloud" make its way to Europe?
No, a much more likely scenario would be a clandestine nuclear show in Europe by those who said "F" the EU, putting the blame on Russia.
I fear that a war that gets out of hand will not be fought on the battlefield or the skies.
It will be fought in the cities with the poisoning of water supplies, bombing of bridges and tunnels and other acts of sabotage by sleeper cells on both sides who have waited for the day and for instructions to act.
Nuclear weapons are a last option but hopefully a very last option.
It will also be fought at the satellite and compueter level as each side tries to neutralise the other.
It will be fought on the airwaves with successive waves of misinformation from both sides.
It will be fought everywhere except around the politicians who will still get their benefits and freebies and their children and grandchildren will be far from harms way.
All the posturing on both sides including their respective supporters reminds of how little we have changed from our early primary school days when we would compete to see who could urinate highest against the wall of the urinal while calling out , "mine is bigger than yours!!"
Everyone here is FORGETTING one little 'FACT'
That the US-MIL told OBAMA "NO" about SYRIA, and that has a lot more strategic importance to US-MIL than UKRAINE.
The Generals went one saturday AM and told OBAMA "NO", that was that.
Now you have the same problem, you got the MSM/ZH talking shit, and PUTIN pissed off sound-bites about sanction bullshit, ... but nobody is talking about the US-MIL wanting to go have a WAR with RUSSIA, fucking STUPID.
There is infinite FIAT and gold-plated retirement for the MIL, why in the fucking HELL would the PRAETORIANS send themselves to DEATH and lose ALL? Ain't going to fucking happen.
>>>
OBAMA, CAN'T DO SHIT, ... JUST LIKE SYRIA.
The USA can print FIAT for FREE, so it was easy for HILLARY and LURCH to give NULAND $5 billion USD.
It was supposed to be easy to PUT in Tel-Aviv Puppets
and run UKRAINE by KEIV,
Mission Failed, ...
Game-Over, ... but for some dumb reason everybody
talks shit like OBAMA is actually going to do something.
Here's the DEAL boy's, the ONLY thing the USA has
is FREE MONEY, they don't got anything else.
They don't got balls, or brains, or a MIL. The Current MIL is fucking tired, remember it was the GENERALS that told OBAMA "NO" on SYRIA, or have the UNICORNS already
forgotten?
It takes an 'american' to think that 'americans' did nothing in Syria.
The Syrian lord is now forced (thanks to his buddy, the chess master Putin) to disarm its chemical arsenal.
'Americans' have a long history of disarming people. As long as their own history actuall.
In the meantime, they increase their capacity to have guns and use them liberally (as 'americans' are liberal in this regard)
When someone is disarmed and surrounded by people who are getting more and more armed and whose society entitles to a right to kill people like that someone, it is never, never a good situation.
But, hey, the 'american' culture of death is so deep that pleasing the 'american' middle class is extremelly hard.
Your hatred of all things American defines you more than your Reason.
Those who wish to rule others are simply bad people, always and everywhere. Thinking that your "Pinky and the Brain" is better than another "Pinky and the Brain" is wishful thinking.
Putin, far from a Chess Master, is blind. He cannot understand a world that is not a top-down pyramid such as the Soviet Union he grew up in.
This means he cannot understand when nations in a defense pact accept some directions but reject others. To him it looks like mutiny or weakness. He can't understand voluntary association that is not a military-style top-down pyramid.
This also means that when people or places join that limited association, to him it looks like conquest - because he can't believe that the association is not in charge.
He only understands pyramids.
And for that reason, even if he succeeds in all his immediate aims, he will still fail.
If he humbles the US, Europe will fear and loathe him all the more.
If he humbles the US, seizes most of Europe, and holds the rest of Europe hostage to energy - then he will have become too powerful to tolerate and China will turn on him and he will face revolts everywhere.
Because a top-down pyramid is an unnatural condition for normal people to live in, and no one wants to be dominated.
For this reason ALL "PINKY AND THE BRAIN" schemes to "RULE THE WORLD" will fail.
Putin is a wannabee 'american'.
The only thing that prevents him from being a full blown 'american': random birth.
He was born in Russia in the current times.
Other than that, this guy would be a shameless 'american'. Spreading 'americanism' all over the world.
Ann, now work in the disarming of the Ukrainian nuke missile stock pile in 1994.
If you did this, you might be taken seriously. No one really trusts someone with such an obvious blind spot.
The new 'american' song: speaking on 'americanism' makes you a Russian.
James.connolly you make a lot of sense but since when has the USA applied coommon sense in recent decades?
You forget that the boys upstairs need to make money and gain power and they ain't going to achieve it by letting Putin off the hook.
Therefore, in my book, anything is possible.
In the US, generals don't tell the President when and where the military will be used.
If the General is unhappy enough about it he can resign. That's about it.
Obama didn't do Syria (though Europe DESPERATELY wanted him to) because the politics were such that he would be impeached if he tried - and combined with the drone assassination of Americans - he would probably end up being charged for murder, war crimes, etc.
THAT is why Syria hasn't happend.
Obama is in a pinch.
Europe must have access to energy supplies before the supplies become much tighter. Russia's goepolitical play is to prevent that diplomatically if it can, and otherwise militarily. That has been the Russian's strategy since at least 2004.
If Obama can't or won't see that task done, then NATO - or at least a NATO dominated by the US - is finished because it will have no utility to Europe. A 'mutual-defense' pact that does not ensure the ability to economically defend one self is useless.
So, Obama has to get either Libya, Syria, or Ukraine done - with energy pipelines functional - VERY soon or the post-WWII order will collapse.
BTW...Its collapse will be the decisive point for the loss of Dollar Reserve Status - though it might take a few years.
Jimmy. it was the British House of Paliament that said the "NO!" to which you refer.
You see, Britain still has some element of a real democratic system and the USA does not.
The military upper echelons of every country is chock-a-block full of ambitious sociopaths who are desirous of a high-paid private industry job...they never say "NO!" to war.
It is the Princess in the Kremlin and his fascist supporters who are driving Russia to ruin.
'Americans' put many shows in order to conceal 'americanism'.
One type of shows happen when they claim to ignore the way 'americanism' works.
'Americans' might be satisfied with a war in Ukraine, they might push for it. But they do not push for war in Russia.
'Americans' are used to monetizing every stage in their way of doing war. So why should skip some stages when they promise to be so ludicrously rewarding when applied to Russia?
The 'american' middle class crave for war. They want the opportunities tied to war in an 'american' world.
Added to the fact that some middle class are demoted on the demand of the 'american' middle class, and you get that impatient feeling. Things do not go fast enough, Obama is weak for not urging things, the 'american' middle class should already benefit from the spoils of war...
It is hard to be a servant for the 'american' middle class as their culture of death, their taste for blood only go higher and higher. That is why so many sociopaths and psychopaths are elected to serve the 'american' middle class. Because they are at an advantage when it comes to endure the whims of their master, the 'american' middle class.
You are crazy, my friend. The American Middle Class does not want war! Only the top few, maybe <5%, profit from such.
Craig
One reality check.
No longer conscription.
During the times of conscription, denial was easy. The big bad government drafted wretched peace loving unwilling non consenting 'americans'
Today, the conscription is no more.
'American' middle class are queuing to the recruitment bureaus to join the military.
'American' middle class want war, they want the opportunities going with them.
The veil of the conscription is torn by now.
Time to get on the page and stop using propaganda that is no longer effective.
There are many jobs 'americans' do not want to work and the jobs associated to the military are not among those jobs.
As a matter of fact.
The situation is fairly simple :
1° NATO is covertly encouraging the pounding of the pro russian population of Ukraine, Hoping for Putin to fire the first shot
2° Putin is waiting for the economic timebomb the US is sitting on to blow
The prize is domination of Europe via control of NG supply. Myself living in France, I do not trust neither BO or VP but given the track record of the USSA of selling out and dismantling my country day by day since WWI, I am willing to try a Russian boot on my throat for a change. Can't imagine living under Russian influence being any worse, whatever MSM bullshit they try to shovel down our throat.
so, from where i stand, the sooner #2 happens, the better, I'm just hoping #1 won't happen first..
Of course there is always the remote chance that this is only a well choreographed ballet and the end of the play is already known to both sides, in which case I should probably get my suicide booth business off the ground as there would truly be no hope and no point living any more.
Your arguments undo themselves.
Economic "melt down" is the historical prelude to most wars.
I disagree. My contention is that the empire is trying to start a war PRIOR to meltdown and yet WITHOUT pulling the trigger first so that THEY can point the finger at the other guy 'see HE started it and it's certainly not 100years worth of fraudulent banking that brought this onto you, sheeples'
I would argue that that order of things happening (war before cataclysmic crash) is paramount to the survival of the empire and the continuation of its plans.
whcih will happen first
RUSSIAN SPRING
AMERICAN SPRING
CHINESE SPRING
RIO IS READY FOR THE OLYMPICS FRESHLY WAXED ANND LUBED
Erm. Rio is supposedly ready for the World Cup, not the Olympics. That's in 2016.
Rio riot police and some military are working overtime trying to get control of the favelas before the football begins. Football will either happen as planned or there'll be street wars. Who knows. The drug lords and assorted criminals in Rio's favelas are well armed.
All the depolyments in that graphic are tiny. You would need 100x those numbers to fight a real war.
These numbers are small enough that they are easily within normal transport and routine training numbers.
MOREOVER
The graphic itself is suspect.
Two Danish F-16s deployed to ... wait for it ... DENMARK?????
Others on the graphic are zero-sum-game routine moves. For instance, 4 polish MIG-29's deployed from Poland (bordering Russia) to Estonia (also bordering Russia). This looks like re-arranging deck chairs to me.
When you combine that with the Denmark "DEPLOYMENT" to ... DENMARK, this chart's nature becomes crystal clear.
It is pure propaganda.
No one who is being honest would call Danish fighters staying home a 'deployment' or a 'provocation'. No one honest would call moving 4 fighters from one spot on the border to another 'provocation'.
BUT WAIT! THIS CHART IS EVEN WORSE PROPAGANDA THAN YOU THOUGHT!
Militaries deploy in units. Sending an F16 or a MIG without the mechanics, ordnance crews, etc, that come with it does NOTHING MORE THAN AN AIRSHOW.
To fight, those things can't move as one or two fighters at a time. They move as a unit, with the appropriate logistics - or they can't fight. It is as plain as that.
Two fighters are called a 'Flight'. They can't do anything by themselves - can't fuel themselves, can't load bombs themselves, can't do more than a basic flight prep on their aircraft - ANYTHING.
18-24 fighters are a 'Squadron'. This level can organize their operations and perhaps do some minor maintenance. They are dependent on in-place assets on the Air Base - which must be specific to their aircraft - like specific bombs or missiles with specific mount points and specific cranes to lift that specific ordnance into place.
Mostly those things aren't going to be pre-existing in place on a Baltic Air Base - because they are expensive and these countries only just joined.
So, for any fighting to happen you havre to send a Wing. This echelon has 54 fighters - but MORE IMPORTANTLY - it comes with some LIMITED logistical ability.
Therefore what are these moves? Fighters always fly at least in pairs. A PAIR of fighters is often what you would see when a broken aircraft returns from a maintenance facility.
Flight crews have limits on their flying. Four Air Craft means you could have planes in the air for, maybe, half a day. Four is essentially an air show. It might be an air show for ground units that are training 'how to ask for air support'. But it can't DO ANYTHING.
18 or more is a military move for military purposes - but only realistic when the logistics are in place, or moving in place.
CONCLUSION:
Movements of 1-4 fighters mean nothing. They are routine dog-and-pony shows. With help from the Air Base they can probably get themselves in the air - but NOTHING more - no bombs, no missiles, no bullets - all of that requires some level of aircraft-specific equipment and ordnance.
BUT THAT SOMEONE WOULD MAKE A PROPAGANDA SHEET LIKE THIS? THAT'S PRICELESS! IT TELLS A LOT ABOUT WHAT THE RUSSIANS ARE THINKING.
What will they be telling us next? That the Germans have aggressively deployed fighters into GERMANY????
And what does naming Denmark fighters in Denmark as "Aggression" tell us about the Russian Regime's position? I'll leave that to you.
Too much wishful thinking and assumptions, John.
" Sending an F16 or a MIG without the mechanics, ordnance crews, etc, that come with it does NOTHING MORE THAN AN AIRSHOW. "
Air crews are on site in the Baltics for these aircraft along side US special forces teams as security. You have to have a wider understanding of this situation if you wish to get the analysis right.
Armed citizens, disarmed governments. What a concept.
Seriously, more peeps shot and killed by police in NYS than by semi automatic rifles.
Both numbers comparatively tiny.
Which one have they banned.
Just sayin.
Don't believe the hype.
And Turn off the fucking TV.
Oh, vis a vis Russian Air Force.
It's not the planes really, since dogfights are pretty much a thing of the past.
It's battlefield coordination, the "awareness" in real time.
That's what the Yankees have.
And don't get your knickers in a twist, no one will go nuclear about this.
It's not the planes really, since dogfights are pretty much a thing of the past.
Now where have I heard that before ...
Yet
Air to Air missiles are the "game" when an advanced fighter challenges a non advanced fighter. The Gulf war and the Iraq War saw many of these conflicts.
However, Advanced Fighters use electronic counter measures, flares, decoys to ensure the likelihood of the need for dog fighting.
Dog fights are not a thing of the past after all.
Otherwise, I agree with your points...+1 for you!
BTW: SWEDEN has been in the linked-plane, situational awareness TECH for 4 decades now. I think the Gripen will be the Plane to Beat.
This chart shows Danish fighters remaining in Denmark as "Deployment' and "Aggression".
It also shows 4 Polish fighters on the border of Russia being moved to the Baltics and infers that to be aggression. It looks more like rearranging deck chairs. Both source and destination are on Russia's border.
It shows no movements of units at all. For a unit that can actually shoot down fighters, bomb places, etc, there would need to be at least a squadron moved - ergo 18 aircraft with logistical support.
CONCLUSION:
THE CHART IS PURE PROPAGANDA.
Zero Hedge is becoming such a chore to clean up...all the idiocy and a-historic bullshit! Too much! Read people! Get interested in history or take some ritalin...what ever it takes! Just don't post comments until you have a clue, k?
'cause, as it now is, we need a garbage truck and full cleaning crew to sweep up the STUPID every morning. (Extra Crew in the wings ready for the trash talk...)
"It's all the Russians' fault? This does not exactly look like de-escalation to us."
Generally, "de-escalation" means that the guy who started throwing punches is expected to stop throwing punches. Otherwise, things don't de-escalate.
Then again, you're probably from the generation that, when the school bully started a fight, his victim ended up in detention right alongside him, so my argument may have cleared the top of your head by a few thousand feet or so.