Unions have been the real plague of society. There is not much they have not really destroyed. They wiped out New York City as a port. No ships dock in New York City any more. They serious reduced the American auto industry reducing quality that opened the door for foreign cars. The big three US auto manufactures are General Motors (NYSE:GM), with 17.9 percent market share, Ford (NYSE:F), with 15.9 percent market share, and Chrysler, with 11.5 percent market share. That is just 45.3% with the rest going to foreign. Toyota (NYSE:TM) alone has 14.3 percent market share.
The unions are probably worse in Philadelphia than anywhere. They are driving the city’s Convention Center into the brink of bankruptcy because of their arrogant demands. We had to cancel our conference there because we were not allowed to hire a video company that was not local Philadelphia Union. The German film crew that has been making this move would not be allowed to have their own people. We had to cancel and move. When we called the Marriott with just 1 week to the event, they asked why were we cancelling? The unions?
The Construction Unions are basically criminal organizations. They threaten people who do not use union labor and now a bunch of people are getting indicted for such violent activity. These unions have been destroying equipment of competing firms that are not union. They have goon squads that intimidate people.
The days when unions were necessary to ensure working conditions are long gone. There are all sorts of laws in place that unions are no longer necessary. Nevertheless, we are looking at a major rise in civil unrest coming primarily from state unions. These are teachers ro bureaucrats all demanding more and refusing to reduce their demands. This system is just unsustainable. They have attack advertisements in Pennsylvania blaming school violent on cutting teachers. Governor Christie cannot fund the pensions of state workers. When he said the unions have to give back, they said no – they want more.
The problem is that the only way to pay these unions is to raise taxes. That reduces the disposable income and robs the citizen of their future to fund state workers. It was the unfunded pensions that caused the collapse of the Roman Empire and it wiped out the city of Detroit. More than 50% of tax revenue went to pensions and that means you cannot fund government without it shrinking.
This is the poison pill that will destroy Western Society. This hunt for taxes will destroy the economy and will not save the day in the end game. Just do the math.
A private union is the utmost expression of capitalism.
To outlaw this is to outlaw markets themselves.
If union should be outlawed, so should billionaires. How else, but through a union, can labor get a voice?
"There are all sorts of laws in place that unions are no longer necessary."
Wonder where those laws came from...
The government is the biggest criminal organisation on the planet, but I don't see Armstrong calling it a plague.
He's a fuckin .gov tool. A shill for the thiefs and murderers. Fuck Martin Armstrong.
The banks are far bigger & far more powerful than world governments. Even entire Kingdoms back in the day couldn't wage war without securing bank support.
Today it's still the case here & there.
This is a guy looking at one side of a polygon then making an argument. So infantile in its scope
Lolplolol
Sorry Martin, unions are a symptom not the cause of a bigger problem...
Unions in a labor sense don't exist unless there is centralized control of a business.
They form for reasons in the first place, they aren't THE reason.
For the recording like anything else they eventually become the very thing they set out to combat in the first place over time which is monopolized control in this case of labor and in certain areas whole industries.
Wrong
Explain then.
I am not pro union either but I do know people in general when they are getting fucked at least back in the day will naturally group together to protect themselves and that is the crux for unionization of workers.
The same iteration happens over and over in nature and in living systems in general.
I have other posts here and you can read there. The bottom line is that unions have lead to a decline in overall living standard, not an increase. Unions are no different that an oil monopoly, or the FED. They exist only to enrich a few at the expense of everybody else.
wrong on all counts.
One and ONLY one thing has caused decline in standard of living: god-power in the hands of the banks.
Nothing else.
Period.
Piss off you arsehole what a complete bullshit comment
Dewey, let's not forget the 1rst amendment, the right to peacable assembly & to a redress of grievance.
A small nudge to those who are so bent on concepts like "liberty", "Heritage" "Freedom" and the Constitution.
I've had ample grudges with unions over the years, but I like my nose too much to spite my face, there's good reason the Federalists were unable to prevent the bill of rights.
Destroy unions!!! Save America!!!
Damn I should really work for a campaign or something! LOL American flag in the background and shit.... Oh yeah....
To the authors excuse, I think he'd not been born stupid but education did that to him.
NTEU:
NTEU-represented agenciesDept. of Agriculture
• Farm Service Agency
• Food and Nutrition Service
Dept. of Commerce
• Patent and Trademark Office
Dept. of Energy
Dept. of Health and Human Services
• Administration for Children and Families
• Administration on Community Living
• Food and Drug Administration
• Health Resources and Services
Administration
• Indian Health Service
• National Center for Health Statistics
• Office of the Secretary
• Program Support Center
• Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
Dept. of Homeland Security
• U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Dept. of the Interior
• National Park Service
Dept. of the Treasury
• Bureau of Engraving and Printing
• Bureau of the Fiscal Service
• Departmental Offices
• Internal Revenue Service
• Office of Chief Counsel
• Office of the Comptroller of the Currency
• Tax and Trade Bureau
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Environmental Protection Agency
Federal Communications Commission
Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
Federal Election Commission
National Credit Union Administration
Nuclear Regulatory Commission
Securities and Exchange Commission
Social Security Administration
• Office of Disability Adjudication and Review
Why are we up shit creek?
http://www.nteu.org/NTEU/
Thanks for the link.... hmmm interesting.
Your welcome
"Your welcome"
Your welcome was greatly appreciated.
Why, thank you!
You're welcome.
HTH
Take a moment and go to the NTEU website; they need not only members but you and me to contact our reps in D.C. so they can get a much needed and clearly deserved 3.3 % pay raise.
I hope my new ObamaCaree rates do not go up so I can help them get this raise since they are not required to use ObamaCare. You know we owe it to them just ask.
LOL. Just think, we will one day put our health and lives in the hands of people that only answer to their union, are unaccountable and can't get fired. Lovely.
The vertical axis is in thousands. At the peak there were 600Million warriors?
The low lying fruit is still Obama. He's the bane of industry.
He;s a low, lying, fruit, alright.
Lol...you win this thread.
As a former card-carrying member myself... I agree for the most part. The Union is just another motherfucker with their hand in your paycheck.
Poison Pill of Western Society, Right. I gotta read this shit after the big 1913 shit sandwich.
No organization has done more to raise the standard of living for the average worker than labor unions. At a time when membership is at an all time post Wagner Act low its no surprise that workers wages are also plumbing new lows.
Unions are undeniably the first, last, and only hope for the man and women of the working day.
You fucking moron!!! No organization has done more to raise the standards a very few people primarily in the government and lower the standard of living for hundreds of millions through higher taxes and interest payments on fucking debt accumulated because the POS government employees didnt have the fucking balls to raise taxes as high as they needed to be to fund their over fucking bloated salaries.
You simpleton fucking moron you are so fucking stupid it is fucking unbelievable.
You do realize that when you resort to vular language and name calling you have lost the argument????
Lets see.. who was responsible for electing the people who set the taxation rate????
""We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo
some slips are truly freudian.
not this one:
http://www.agentprovocateur.com/nightwear/slips/info/chrissy-babydoll~black
I'm not a union guy, but your arrogant, profane laced response is grade school idiocy.
People like you keep pushing people like me more and more to the left...at this rate I'll be a card carrying Liberal joining a union, versus ranting about them just a few years ago.
But Einstein, 'splain the descent of middle class wages & net worth coinciding with union membership decline since the 1970's.
Tell me it's pure coincidence, or that "correlation isn't causation".
Sell me on your empirical rationale....or - just call me a bunch of bad names like a 15 yr old.
"But Einstein, 'splain the descent of middle class wages & net worth coinciding with union membership decline since the 1970's."
Taking Detroit as an example, Henry Ford and other successful businesses were the catalyst and cause for the rise in the middle class in Detroit. NOT, the unions. The unions were responsible for minting millionaire assembly line workers. The union scourge spread to the government and resulted in higher taxes. This, in turn, caused businesses to flee the city and state. Unions were responsible for a decline in the middle class in Detroit, not the rise of the middle class.
Union didn't design, order faulty parts, and encourage short cuts in the manufacturing of cars. The employee's did what they where told to do and worked with the tools there managers gave them. You make the mistake of blaming workers for managerments incompedence. Toyota, BMW, Honda, and many other had unionized workforce and produced superior products. Superior products, superior management, and superior attitude is what kill detriot not unions or union scale wages.
Get a clue before you open your ignorant mouth.
Sorry, but I'm calling BULLSHIT, Capital B! Of course the banksters and our rulers don't want labor to organize. That is the main problem of 'we the people' and is our handlers clear advantage. Unions are the only chance the worker has to make a decent living. Everything else is 'divide and conquer' by the elite and the managers directly under them. This is the main reason the 'Middle class' is a thing of the past in the USA.
As a fresh scrubbed "baby engineer" working in my first management role in a non union facitily... long long time ago... it was drilled into my head..." unions only get a foot hold if management is incompetent." Unions are a necessary pain in the ass to keep management honest and fair.
Those days are long gone.
those days are gone 'cos reagan/thatcher said : sorry, we deregulate and go supply side, quarterly report market tuned basis, and then Bush/Clinton outsourced to slave labour.
Unions were dead ducks on a shoot hunt from then on.
These transnational deals will make that even more so.
I don't understand why this site bothers, honestly. Clearly the Tyler(s) cannot get out of their own way. They all post under Tyler because they're afraid of personal criticism for their views, but they post this libertarian corporatist bullshit and anarchic anticapitalist bullshit under the same name. WTF is your agenda here?
Either the system is so corrupt and fixed for the benefit of a very few people that it it would be a blessing if it were to collapse, or the little people need to make way for their Randian betters. Which is it to be? Otherwise, I can't tell the bullshit on your website from the bullshit.
And let me just add for a minute, I think that the inclusion of this author's content as well as people like Reggie Middleton, who exist purely to sell you some shit is an extremely, Extremely poor choice for anyone who wants the material they present to be taken seriously. Did I get this wrong the whole time? Is this site satire?
And stop titling posts with any sort of combination of "Presented with little comment, but to say..." or "Presented with no comment". Ya playin' yourself.
I'm sorry but if you support any type of union and do not support crony capitalism you are a hypocrite.
IMO, it is hard to pin it solely on unions. The issue appears to be much broader. It is total non-market driven overhead drag on business and society. If market forces were allowed to determine wages, prices, taxes, debt, regulation etc. then we could have a competitive market environment.
However the US has regulated and taxed itself into a position where the parasites are killing the host. There are too many bloodsuckers attacked to the value adding portion of the country and so the host is dying.
The elitists are simply major fuck-ups when it come to running an entire country. They would be worse running the entire world. Yes, they would have no competition, but that would make them simply more parasitic and corrupt.
way too simplistic to blame one side without laying some blame on management. a pox on both houses.
In the end, I blame society.
The Roman military wasn't equipped with Commodore C64s.
Unions have nothing on mulitnational multi-billion corporations when it comes to destroying the fabric of western society...
Except their vote.
Flakmeister, I never thought I would see the day; but it has arrived. You actually said something that corresponded to reality and makes sense. Congratulations. Martin Armstrong makes you look well-oriented and well informed about the real world; and that's not easy.
Are you sure you understood exactly what I said? ;-)
Flak always makes sense. Just not always something I agree with.
What a load of shit! Any extended comment is not necessary to anyone with a brain.
Public employees with civil service protections should not be in unions, but worker safety rules in hazardous industries such as mining and construction would not be in place had there not been unions to fight for them.
I call bullshit. Unions build the designs engineers (managers) determine.
GM's recalls are their fault too.
Not saying they don't have their issues e.g. lazy slug gets paid the same as a work mule, but they aren't the ones that are running these operations, shipping jobs overseas & evading taxes.
With unions being about 6% of the labor force & totally emasculated by globalization, they're REALLY powerful.
MA=FOS
Where did you find this shit? Maybe somebody already wiped their ass with it and this guy picked it up and published it.
Fuck you asshole.....unions, and I worked both sides, meaning which gate I went through to get to work, created the middle class and the greatest prosperity of the fucking godamned world!
I was probably your grandfather who got a union job and had a life for your father and mother, fought for and provided by popular support of organized labor, who gave your father the life he had to bring your stupid fucking know nothing ass into this world and sent you to the greatest school system IN THE HISTORY OF THE FUCKING WORLD ASSHOLE! Too fucking bad your learned nothing from the experience.
FUCK YOU. AMERICA NEEDS UNIONS NOW MORE THAN EVER!
You are totally correct. That is why of course your and my opinions are hated by the exploiters and all the assholes that are brainwashed into believing the exploiters bullshit.
No they are hated because you are tools of the media and buy the corporate lies hook line and sinker.
No, FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!
Only a small percentage of the population is in a union and sucks off every other American. Unions, overall, have lead to a decline in standard of living for most through higher taxes and interest on the debt (accumulated to pay the over bloated salaries of union workers).
BTW, the best school system in the world??? You are fucking delusional besides being a moron. Let me get this straight. The federal government pulls trillions of dollars out of every local community in America, funnels it through the department of Education, the government develops a highly bastardized far left wing curriculum on everything from history to social studies and holds every community hostage by withholding the same funds if they don't have the government approved propaganda as their curriculum.
FUCK YOU!
Trollololo....
Governor Christie cannot fund the pensions of state workers.
Don't forget your taxes pay for Goverment worker pensions.
Ask yourself a question
Are the Goverment pensions better than you own?
Can they retire earlier than you?
Do they get a better value for thier contributions compaired to your own?
Thease goverment workers are no differant than those taking goverment hand outs when you look at it from a ballance sheet point of view.
And you are on the other side of the ballance sheet supporting and paying for it!
Once apon a time you took a job for life with .GOV low paying but a good pension.
Now they get better wages, more holidays etc and still get a better pension
The FED is the only thing that is supporting the pensions and wages...............alot of the 17T + debt has gone to support the above............not you.
"Only a small percentage of the population is in a union and sucks off every other American."
Only a small percentage of the population is in government "service" and sucks off every other American.
Ditto financial "services".
Ditto banking.
Ditto insurance.
Ditto real estate sales.
Ditto crime.
How about spreading the shit around a bit more?
The Teachers union has about as much in common with a skilled trade union as you have with a brain..none. You must have been picked on while you were stocking those grocery store shelves with Mish.
As a current member of the Communications Workers of America, I tell you right now they suck pass and if I was not required to pay my dues they would not get shut from me since they only fund the DNC.
The CWA is a bunch of scumbag lowlife assholes.
Please site 5 viable reasons why America needs unions. Waiting......
Name 5 members of the Walton family....
Gotta up-vote you again; honesty is honesty.
#1 coming home alive from work
#2 paying for food, housing & normal medical needs using wages, not credit or insurance or government welfare from taxpayers
#3 being able to lawfully work less than 60 hours a week, less than 12 hours a day, and still be "full time" or "not fired"
#4 being able to work without being exposed to hazardous chemicals or violent situations
#5 it would never be legal or morally correct to hide all wages so that workers are always unsure what the fair wage is. A fair, free market requires open information. Currently many jobs actually forbid discussion of what a wage actually is & if you're caught sharing the information you're fucking fired and now your wage is zero and everyone will know it.
By the way, fuckmonkey, the word is "cite" not "site".
A SITE is a place. A location.
If you can't comprehend the meanings for words it's no surprise you can't comprehend the math for trading either, which explains why all the dumb sheep "traders" bitch about "all the money" they lost to the "rigged markets".
They are rigged but if you're this incompetent the rigging is not really the core problem.
sent you to the greatest school system IN THE HISTORY OF THE FUCKING WORLD ASSHOLE!
Yup. Those union teachers are doing great. Their students...? Meh, not so much.
That sentence alone is worth the price of admission.
Tyler, Martin? F*ck You! To talk about unions without mentioning that the AMA and ABA are both unions. Wow! You can't practice law or medicine without belonging to these cocksuckers. They got you by the balls. These two outfits are the ones to blame.
>>>the AMA and ABA are both unions. Wow! You can't practice law or medicine without belonging to these cocksuckers.
There are enormous monopoly and restraint-of-trade issues in US medicine, but the AMA is not a union... it's basically a lobby, which is a different animal.
We are each entitled to our own opinion, but not to our own facts.
All you fucking union supporting morons can go to fucking hell!!!
No organization has done more to raise the standards a very few people primarily in the government and lower the standard of living for hundreds of millions through higher taxes and interest payments on fucking debt accumulated because the POS government employees didnt have the fucking balls to raise taxes as high as they needed to be to fund their over fucking bloated salaries.
Go take an extra fucking wide train back to a yet to be built extra wide train station. THE FUCKING MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE YOU SOCIALIST MORONS!!!
Words from another stooge who has partaken of the corporate banker koolaide. While in some respects I can concur with your criticism of government unions, the fact remains, both governments and corporations stole from employee funds to better their bottom line. These funds were set up to provide the payouts required under the employee contract. When times were good and investments produced a solid return, the government and corporations stopped paying their share into the pot. Then the Banks seeing this great pool of wealth and in cahoots with the Rating Agencies produced fraudulent investments geared to these funds, and promptly stole the money.
And you and the media stooges want to now blame this on the poor schmuck that believed he had a contract to provide for his retirement. You uneducated sheep will never learn.
Yep, you and the other union lovers are right. Just look at Detroit. Private sector unions are alot better than public sector unions and all unions lead to a higher standard of living. You are so smart!!! They are living high on the hog up there in Detroit! Yep, high standrad of living. Living wage. Yep, I like that one, a "living wage". Yep, they are living large!!!
Thank you for making me so beautiful unions!
Detroit, Michigan
While the sarcasm is a bit thick, the point made is indeed the case. The truth is, if you factor out the Lions, the Ford family has done far more for the city of Detroit than the entirety of the UAW, it's membership and their idiot butt boys, Dingell, Conyers et al, in Congress ..... combined.
Factor in the Lions and it's about a push.
You corporate-shill, fascist-dumbfuck!
Most unions have nothing to do with taxes whatsoever.
Unions are nothing but Rent-a-Friend organizations that bully businesses into bankruptcy. Once, long ago, they used to care about worker's conditions and rights, now they just care about their own bottom line and sphere of political influence.
A bad business should be bullied into bankruptcy, by all its employees and customers.
That's part of how capitalism works.
And a good business should be able to get rid of bad employees and control its means of production PRIVATELY so that it may operate at a profit; That IS how capitalism works.
Agreed. Without government interference there's no reason a business can't get rid of an entire union all at once, and no reason a contract would be forced so its conception would be consenting by management & workers, and if the 'good' business is wrong the former employees can get community boycott power to punish it. If the good business is really good then business will get better after ditching a union full of bad employees and will suffer no harm.
Yes, another straw dog. Look over there, there's the problem. Corporations are good, they have your best interests at heart. You can trust them.
When the bottom line took precedence over the social good, that's when all bets were off. Businesses and governments hired actuaries to determine if a contract with employees is of economic benefit to both. They obviously were or their Human Resources Departments were totally fraudulant and inept. When companies and governments started evading their obligations and raided their benefit programs to increase the bottom line the whole thing went to shit. But it's all the employees fault for having the temerity to hold corporations and governments to their word.
That is the basic reason that the system is doomed. The new normal means you can't trust a word they say. Even their signature is worthless. We live in times of untrustworthy men and their greed. Not to mention their apologists who write crap like this.
Whatever respect I had for Armstrong just spiralled down the drain for going after the unions, which have already been in decline for a generation as has the middle class as we hurtle our way back to Feudalism.
Actually, Martin, it's not merely "the unions". No union would get very far without government protection...they'd be out on their ear and replaced with better, more cost-efficient help.
What would happen without union-friendly governments? What would happen to striking hired help without mandated "union recognition" laws?
Take away the artificial, government-installed mandated collective "bargaining"...What would happen if owners of capital were allowed to bargain individually, one on one, with each prospective employer? Isn't that the way a free world should work? Respect for property rights? Shouldn't the fact that there is a great shortage of invested capital opportunities and a massive surplus of people trying to sell labour be reflected in the marketplace?
Unions and government work together. We need to cut back BOTH.
To my way of thinking there are two types of unions. First, there are the trades. If you see the in-depth training provided to the trades, you'd never hire a non-union iron worker or pipe fitter. Thumbs up to the trades. Then there are the blood-sucking unions that exist only to coerce an employer into higher wages and benefits -- without regard to the ramifications. In this category I place all government unions, UAW, NFLPA, and teachers. Thumbs down to these barnacles.
You make it sound so nice, the trades. The "trades" line the coffers of political officials bank accounts in exchange for forcing everyone under their jusrisdiction to pay more for goods and services.
Unions decrease standard of living, not increase it.
for being 100 quadrillion percent wrong, -1 for you.
Anything thats a "thing" is inherantly a problem for someone.
The biggest problems in the world
Governments Exist (sadly)
Unions Exist (sadly)
Insurance Laws that force you to buy insurance Exist (sadly)
Central Banks Exist (sadly)
Once these cancers are cleansed from society, everyone will be driving space yachts to mars, because thats how rich we will all be.
So then we can write "I was on my usual day-trip to Mars when all of a sudden my shuttle lost guidance & accidentally went into a decaying orbit into the sun, carrying all my recently purchased gold and silver. Whocouldanode."
Bankers, Lawyers, and corporations had their own crony guilds, so the workers needed some too.
We wouldn't need Unions if crony capitalists gave a person a decent wage and benefits for their labor.
Public service sector unions are holding the economies of the West and its public finances hostage.
Labor unions are a whole different story. Without labor unions the Walmart execs would pay themselves 150 million in retirement packages. Oh wait, that's right. Walmart doesn't have a union and the execs are that exploitive.
I'd like to see the day where labor unions pick up their tools and shove them down a banksters throat and up a political whore's ass. That would be a change the 99% can hope for.
So go start you own WalMart and compete with them for their workers. Should be easy ... right?
NO ONE can start their own Walmart.
That's the point.
Fascism oligarchy, not "socialism" (USA has never had any form of socialism, never ever, and will never) prevents this.
UNIONS fight this.
Labor unions are also fighting free trade agreements as much as they can. It sure wasn't labor unions which sold America down the river to have about all production shipped off to China.
Without strong unions, America has been completely hollowed out and its productive assets sold for cents on the Dollar over and over and over again.
But America is also the proud home of the richest and most parasitic class the world has ever known.
It could be a good place to live but alas, the oligarchs have made that next to impossible. Fuck their American Dream. They stole from everyone here and now it's about time they either share the majority of their wealth or they die trying to protect it all. I could care less what happens to them as they have not real value for our economy.
It sure wasn't labor unions which sold America down the river to have about all production shipped off to China.
It sure was. First there was the migration out of the Midwest and Northeast to the south where labor appreciated the jobs more than the spoiled northerners. When the south got too proud of their laber it moved to Japan and Indonesia. Now it's moved to China. But in the process, the USA is flat broke. They don't produce anything but hand waving ... and that's not selling too well.
WalMart was started when Sears, Wards, S.S.Kresge and others dominated retail. WalMart is ripe to take the dive now that it is no longer controlled by its owner and creator.
OH, so you want us NOW to go back in time to start our own Walmart TO COMPETE NOW with the Fascism.
Hold on, I'll call my DeLorean from the valet.
I'm afraid Mr. Armstrong might have spent a bit too much time in solitary.... cuckoo... cuckoo...
"Look, Martin, we're going to let you out of here, see? But you have quite a bit of influence with this Internet Intelligencia, so we want you to start writting articles that'll sorta distract them from what we're doin here; Okay?" "yeah, sure, guys, sure; anything to get out of here; anything you say."
Bingo!
Unless, of course, Mr Armstrong was referring to the closed-shop International Brotherhood of Judaics in Vampire Finance, Controlled Media/Propaganda, "Law", Porn, PNAC, Wars-For-Israel etc etc..... then he might be onto something
Nahway, Frankie; you and I both know he wasn't referring to "the people".
Go easy there cowboy...
There's some real talent in the porn industry.
Thank gawd they are not unionized!
Unions of choice for private enterprise must be allowed in a capitalistic country. However Public Unions are destructive because they are not contestable once in place. The only comparison I need to make is between the private labor sector and the Federal government sector.
Federal Government employees make more than twice as much in wage and pension as the average employee in the private sector. In 2009 the wages were as produced by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Federal wages and pensions were $123,049 and Private Sector wages and pension were $61,051. You know it's more now. Are you happy with that? If a Federal program is created like Obamacare, why can't the cheaper private sector run and oversee it, not the IRS? This president wants and defends Federal Government. That is Socialistic.
"Unions of choice for private enterprise must be allowed in a capitalistic country."
Unions of choice? Unions are NEVER about choice!
There is no distinction between public and private when it comes to employees telling owners what they can and can not do. If an employee doesn't like his owner's behavior he has three options: 1) Work to change the owner's behavior; 2) Live with it; 3) Walk. Forcing the owner is "not" an option ... ever. If you think you have that option, go become an owner.
THERE IS NO FORCING.
Option 1: work with the employer = HAVE A UNION.
Ever hear of a strike? Ever hear of "scabs" crossing picket lines and being acosted by strikers? That's force! If unions think they can create and manage businesses better than owners, then why do you never hear of them creating and managing businesses? Before the owner creates the company, there are no jobs. Union members never demand someone create a company so they can work there. Rather, once a company is created, workers organize and take over the company ... just like a parasite infects its host ... and eventually kills it.
ever year of MANAGERS shooting WORKERS with machine guns? That's force too.
South African gold miners face this risk when they strike.
.gov employees are LEGALIZED MAFIA
yes, yes...Lobbyist and the FOMC recipients agree... Look! ...Look! shiny object: "Unions"...get 'em.
Unions are one side of the equation, and only one.
As a former Employee Relations, HR employment consulant, I witnessed close up the other side of the equals sign:
Management.
Here it is in one brief sentence: "We hope they do go on strike, because the more the unions get the more we get".
There was no incentive among Employee Relations and labor relations negotiators on the plant floor to give more than lip service to trying to hold the unions demands in check.
Up until the Unions went over the top and in the USW demanded a half year off fully paid, after 20 years service.
Overreach, emboldened by an opportunistic management.
They both deserve the hit, not just the unions.
Public sector unions however, need to be outlawed.
You properly identify that the "union problem" is not limited to the card carrying members. But it is still a "union problem".
I'm no longerpart of the rat race.. This is my new career. www.Fishgaak.com
I sure hope they don't PAY this bozo for continually stating the OBVIOUS! BOR-RING!
"Unions have been the real plague of society. There is not much they have not really destroyed."
"Banksters have been the real plague of society. There is not much they have not really destroyed." There, fixed it for you.
Martin Armstrong is a convicted Wall St. swindler. Does anyone believe, or care, what the scumbag spews? I mean, really. It genuinely concerns me that he gets so much space here on ZH. WTF is up with that Tyler? Will you soon be publishing Maddoff's views on financial and social issues?
About 10 years ago, at Time Warner Center in NYC, a guy that ran one freight elevator was getting $40 an hour for pushing buttons....
Damn, that's cheap. Must have been an apprentice.
I'm involved in projects which are exclusively union labor. Most journeymen, especially iron workers and steam fitters, don't get out of bed for anything short of a $100/hr. packet.
Many of the tradesmen are worth that wage, as I've seen lots of world-class skill on display. But it's the loafers and derelicts who irritate me. The better contractors weed them out, but on larger jobs they can't be avoided.
CunnyF, I have a bro-in-law that makes that ($100/hr package) as a union foreman & works his tail off 60-80 hours a week.
You're spot on about the off/on nature of union workers, he's told me nightmare stories of workers running off to sleep off hangovers while he's forced to work double-time to meet deadlines while he had no choice but accept it.
That has changed in recent years, for his union at least.
He tells me his union has a new merit system that caters prefernce to harder, smarter workers with better records & references....edging scum out the door.
Oh yeah, he was union....
The battle cry is forming...wait for it.....You must be a racist, sexist teacher hater.
Face the Facts. Unions are for swaying votes. The left scratches their backs in return for votes as long as their gravy bowl is full.
That's funny.
You still think there is a left and a right. That's a puppet-show for children.
For the most part Unions in Western countries are tools of the state, they don't tell the state what to do but the state tells them what to do.
You want to work for govt you have to pay a union toll, the govt says so, the state wrote the contract which requires all state employees donate to a state political fund.
What about the out of control 1%'ers?
Without unions we would have far less automation. Most incentives for automation come from people being a total pain in the butt.
Some Unions have become corrupt, it is true, however this pales in comparison to our crooked Politicians and bureaucrats, without Unions through out the decades management would have everyone working for $5 an hour and living in dormitories.
Management will always enrich themselves at the expense of the workers, have a look at CEO compensation.
Yea, those labor unions about destroyed our country. Good thing we have to the banksters to save us!
So it's OK for the Unions to destroy America if the banksters are doing it too!
Common everyday stupidity and your post go hand in hand. That's the same stupid arguement that it's OK for Obama to give Corporate Welfare to GM, because he gave trillions in welfare to his tick and leech Army of lazy non-working moocher democrats
IF both parties are the same, WHY does one party suck union cock while the other party does not?
Please feel free to down arrow, if you are too cowardly to answer!
RevRex, so, a politician that answers to his constituents is engaging in fellatio?
Are you saying that of anyone who thinks, even a modicum, that unions have a constructive purpose?
Is it all really that simple?...that binary?
I gave you the down vote, I responded to your idiot claim that I'd be a "coward" otherwise, k?
Don't want my manhood to be in question, not on an anomymous internet forum by a complete stranger, can't have that....no way man!
The crime here is the ability people have to disregard the truth.
What we know.
The banks, in partnership with the FED, Fannie and Freddie, and the rating agencies created financial fraud unheard of in human history.
The creation of CDOs and CDO2s from toxic mortgages were shopped to "knowledgeable" investors as a AAA rate investment that promised a return needed to keep their funds afloa,t because the FED cut interest rates. Thus, forcing them to seek a better return than they could get from historically safe AAA investments.
Towns, Cities, States, Union Pension Funds and a miriade of other investers were sold these "guaranteed safe" investments.
Then the bottom falls out, the ponzi is exposed, and billions of dollars disappear overnight.
Now, those Cities, Towns, States and investment funds are left holding the bag. The purpose for which those billions were earmarked doesn't disappear but the funds sure did.
So what does the government do? It gives 700 billion to the banks (and still counting) that perpetrated this fraud. Bailed out Fannie and Freddie, the FED is still buying the toxic waste from bank balance sheets under the guise of QE
But not one cent has gone to those Cities, Towns, States or investment funds that were swindled. And not one of those responsible has been held accountable.
Yet, here, on ZH of all places I read a post like this, blaming the victims. This is a sad sad day.
What is sad is your pathetic argument that it's OK for the Unions to fleece the taxpayer because the Fed is fleecing the taxpayer.
What is truly sad is that you don't understand that there would be no need for the taxpayer to be involved at all.
But surely you as a the taxpayer are grateful that your dollars, all $700+ billion were used to save the banks, meanwhile their city, town and state struggle to make up for the losses and sheeple blame the unions.
Why is that so difficult to comprhend?
Many if not most public pensions were having difficulty well before 2007. What has happened sice has shown more clearly the problem.
Working class union employees ARE THE PROBLEM?! Ahh, thank you for setting that one straight, asshat. How did this drivel get posted?
Non-working tick and leech Union Employees are a huge problem.
Apparently small minds think not.
If you think Unions changed anything, drive produce from Cali to NY unload and do it again. After a month let me know if your story is different from the storys told by drivers in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s.
Go read some, or ask an old hand if you can find one.
Whats a silver dime worth today? ya thats different.
http://homment.com/sQcLfv9LD9
Does Martin Armstrong have spellcheck, or is he still using a typewriter? Kinda kills his credibility.
His entire thesis kills his credibility.
"Cop" Unions are what scares me. We are being stip mined for taxes to retire these guys at 50 years old. "Teachers" Unions also scare me. Mostly because they take the ability hire and fire them out of the equation. In that case, too much protection gives them a sense of entitlement to their teachers salary no matter how badly they teach. "Municipal Workers Unions" again I am scared by them. The always win their wage negotiations, and always win 100% full health care. They also seem to hold power over the elected officials who are supposed to represent tax payers. The higher the aveage worker's wage, the higher the superviors and administartor's. They both strip mine tax payers.
Indeed I regard teacher & police unions as highly suspect.
It's made it so being a bad teacher is the norm & being a bad cop gets a hero's parade & endless promotions, even including wilful public murder.
Neither of those professions was ever in need of union protection of any sort.
The blatantly criminal Police Unions also have "negotiated" contractual provisions like "qualified immunity" to shield cops from any kind of punishment for committing assault and murder....that makes their union even scarier.....
Beat someone to death? Shoot anybody in the back when they are running away? If you got a blue costume and a badge, never a problem.
Martin Armstrong is one of those little green specks on a sour cream chip.
No, he's the green speck in a ten dollar whore's underwear
You know how we can fix things? By demonizing and eliminating people's constitutional right to freedom of assembly. That will surely fix everything.
Funny, I don't see Martin going after the U.S. Chamber of Commerce though, which has done more damage to this country than every single union member that has ever set foot in the United States.
The best part is the fact to combat the unions and those "demands" (because really, laying down and taking it like a man is really what America's all about), the corporations all you guys champion......they moved all of the jobs.....to COMMUNIST China.
Good work, guys.
The unions don't even represent their workers anymore; all they do is implore their members to vote democrat, despite those same democrats throwing their constituients under the bus (see: UAW, GM, Millenial workers, and Geithner).
You know why? Because like the politicians, and the corporate board members, and Wall St.....the people who "lead" these organizations would prefer to live the good life rather than struggle with the masses in the foxholes, where REAL change happens.
These leaders didn't do this because they are in a union. Or work on Wall St. Or work in Government.
They did it because they are selfish, greedy assholes. Pretty fucking simple.
Martin is a shill.
For whatever reason everything changed when he got out of prison. Before that what he wrote was on the dot. After: complete nonsense
Water-boarding will do that.
Personally, I don't really have a problem with private-sector unions, as long as union membership and dues are not mandated by law. But, public-sector unions . . . now that is a totally different animal. While I support the right of government workers to unionize -- again only voluntarily -- I believe that allowing government workers to collectively bargain for compensation or pensions is a crazy thing to do unless the goal is to create corruption on purpose.
Think about it; if a politician sits down to negotiate with a union boss, who is representing the taxpayer at the negotiating table? While the politician is supposed to be, she can easily be re-elected with the votes which the union boss can deliver. This creates a gigantic conflict of interests such that the taxpayer is almost certainly going to lose. This should definitely be illegal, in my opinion, and apparently also in the opinion of none other than Democrat FDR, if I remember correctly. He said something to the effect that if the people ever discover just how corrupt collective bargaining for public sector workers is, it will destroy the unions in the US. I disagree with FDR on most of his policies [if not quite all of his others], but I agree with him strongly on this one point.
I'm in Wisconsin. That was fixed a few years ago. The crying continues to this day. I know quite a few government workers and their benefits are finally lining up more with private sector benefits, except for the pensions. I hear the term "race to the bottom", but I say...the taxpayer can't afford it anymore...costs have skyrocketed and wages are stagnant. Sorry.
Studfinder,
Rather than hold contempt for union wages, why can't we hold contempt for lack of wages elsewhere?
There's absolutely no denying lack of median wage growth is a problem.
I think that's the smoke & mirror strategy of corporate propagandists, distract us from the real problem, divide and conquer....turn us against ourselves.