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Carl's Jr CEO Explains Why Nobody Is Hiring Young People
In President Obama's speeches this year, a steady theme has been creating jobs and economic opportunity for Americans. In his State of the Union address in January he said that "what I believe unites the people of this nation . . . is the simple, profound belief in opportunity for all—the notion that if you work hard and take responsibility, you can get ahead." And in his weekly address on Saturday, he repeated his strong appeal to young people: "As long as I hold this office, I'll keep fighting to give more young people the chance to earn their own piece of the American Dream."
Yet during the more than five years Mr. Obama has been in office, young people have been especially hard-hit by the slow and virtually jobless recovery. Given the destructive effect this has on individual initiative and the prospects of a productive and rewarding working life, the continuing struggle of young Americans to find jobs, start building families and contribute to society is no longer simply a matter of politics or policy. On a deeply human level, it's profoundly sad.
Consider these grim employment numbers:
• In February the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) recorded the lowest percentage of 16- to 19-year-olds working or actively looking for work (32.9%) since the bureau started tracking the data in 1948. The BLS recorded the second-lowest labor-participation rate for this group in April (33.2%) and the third-lowest in January (33.3%). May's rate was the sixth lowest (33.8%).
• Over the past two years, the BLS has recorded some of the worst labor participation rates for 20- to 24-year-olds since 1973, when the Vietnam War was beginning to wind down. In August 2012, the 69.7% rate was the lowest since '73. The second-lowest (70%) came in March last year. This year, the third-lowest rate came in April (70.2%). May's rate was a still-miserable 71%.
• Looking at the seasonally unadjusted data—which is what the BLS makes publicly available—for 25- to 29-year-olds, the April 2014 labor-participation rate was the lowest the BLS has recorded since it started tracking the data in 1982 (79.8%). May's rate was the second-lowest (79.9%). January, February and March tied with the fourth-lowest (80.3%).
These disturbing numbers raise a simple question: Where are the entry-level jobs?
Five years of 2% average yearly GDP growth simply doesn't produce enough jobs to absorb the natural increase in the labor force, and over the past eight quarters GDP growth has averaged only 1.7%. Between May 2008 and May 2014, BLS data show that the employable population increased by 14,217,000 while the number of people employed actually decreased by 94,000 and the number of people unemployed increased by 1,404,000. It remains a bad time for young people to be looking for jobs.
Nonetheless, various states and municipalities have increased their minimum wage, thereby increasing the cost of employing inexperienced workers. Minimum-wage jobs have always been a gateway to better opportunities. In making hiring decisions, businesses must weigh the quality and value of work that entry-level employees produce against the cost of employing them. For many businesses in high-minimum-wage states or municipalities—Seattle leads the list, having approved a move to a $15 minimum wage—that trade-off is no longer working.
The bottom line on labor: Make something less expensive and businesses will use more of it. Make something more expensive and businesses will use less of it. The Congressional Budget Office has forecast a loss of 500,000 jobs should the president's proposal to increase the federal minimum wage to $10.10 an hour become law.
The CBO also forecast that this increase would lift a number of people who already have jobs above the poverty threshold. For 500,000 unemployed people, however, that's 500,000 opportunities American businesses will never create.
ObamaCare is also increasing the cost of hiring inexperienced workers. The health-care law requires that businesses with more than 50 full-time employees offer medical insurance to employees working 30 or more hours a week. The administration knows that the employer mandate will kill jobs and has twice delayed implementing it. With an election on the horizon, American businesses know that these delays were political and that the mandate's economically damaging impact is in the pipeline, coming their way.
ObamaCare gives businesses an incentive to either eliminate entry-level jobs or keep the workers' hours to under 30 a week. It also gives businesses a reason to reduce the hours of experienced employees to under 30 a week. These experienced employees are now working second jobs to compensate for their lost hours—resulting in fewer positions for less-experienced workers.
To get on the ladder of opportunity, America's young people need jobs. Creating disincentives to hire them diminishes the notion that "if you work hard and take responsibility, you can get ahead." The reality is that you can't get ahead if you can't find a job.
I'm not speaking primarily as a business CEO. My company will adjust to new laws. I'm speaking as someone from a working-class family. I started work scooping ice cream for the minimum wage at Baskin-Robbins. To put myself through college and law school while supporting my family, I cut lawns, painted houses and busted concrete with a jackhammer. I know how important these jobs are. For one thing, they taught me—as no lectures from my parents ever could—that I needed a good education so I wouldn't have to settle for low-paying work the rest of my life. Too many young people today are being deprived of even that basic lesson.
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"You are arguing about how this credit is spent"
Why not argue about how it is spent? If it were fair (I know this is laughable but you raised the point) then the money would have been divided up and sent to all the TAXpayers who would have decided how to make their lives better and this would have FIXED the spending problem and got the jobs back. Of course this would also have required the insolvent banks to be forced into BK but that's another fairy tale.
Just sayin - I know it means little in the context of what really happened.
You're missing the problem. The problem isn't government spending... government spending is merely a symptom. The problem is the monetary system. The problem is credit/debt money loaned into existence with interest attached at creation. It requires that aggregate debt be in a state of constant expansion or you face a daisy chain of debt implosion (collapse). The collapse in inevitable. The problem CAN'T be solved... the can can only be kicked down the road... which we've been doing for 40+ years.
Theoretically, it can be solved. It's fiat we're talking about, after all. So, a brave leader would tell the Fed and its owners to fuck right off and declare that no interest shall accrue to any monies (debt still, but owed to the people via the Treasury instead), abolish the income tax and have the Treasury actually do it's job. If it wuz me, I'd place hard limits on the amount of currency in circulation based on the number of users of said currency. Only the US has the ability to do that at this point in time, and it don't look promising.
Of course that's one of the primary problems but what the fuck would we all write about in these blogs if we didn't explore the finer details as well?
Dingleberry Just because one has the intelligence to point out that socialism is a lie does not make one a Republican.
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You have not followed any of RevRex other posts on othe other threads. Rev is clearly a GOP shill. He's been called out and just continues to spout red pill propaganda. Congrats if you have been suckered by him.
Which on voted for it, coward?
Voted? How quaint.
pods
They will never save us not their mission. Their mission is to slow it down enough for the cultural, economic and attitudinal damage the Dems make while in power are solidified, before the next ramp up. While it is a transitory space it is one we could all desperately use at this point. This is why the mission for the repugs this next election is to barely win so the Dems don't cede space by too far a margin.
when the legislation is so onerous that you can't get at least _1_ member of the "opposition" to vote with you, you know it's complete and utter crap... I voted you up, not saying GOP is the messiah either, but they sure as hell got their vote right on that one... ACA should be fully repealed, if that day ever happens we may actually be able to get the runners of the economy broken from the ice... as it stands now, no amount of whips can get the sled dogs to move, they have no incentive to
Most of the GOP voted for Medicare Part D. They're ok with government controlling healthcare as long as they're the ones in power instead of the blue team.
"show us one GOP member that voted for the ACA... just one..."
Chief Justice John Roberts
lol
lol good one... +1
Thanks for cowering like a sniveling worm.
RevRex, I observe by your Up arrows that a lot of ZHers are falling for your D&C (Divide & Conquer) ploy. I'm not one of them. And I neither Up nor Down arrowed you.
As for the "Hoax & Chains", as you put it... it's fair and accurate to say that millions got duped by Obama -- just like millions got duped by Bush.
That's what you get when you have a nation of people who act like sheeple: They want to believe (maintain their prevailing belief system), rather than proceed on REALITY. And that is why I say: "The beginning of wisdom happens when you give up ALL illusions and pretenses", regardless of their appeal, their source or their popularity.
p.s. Anyone who is really accomplished in Sales or Marketing will tell you that it's really easy to "sell" something to anyone, if you know their profile and their Hot Buttons. This includes people of all political, religious or cultural stripes, or IQ. Once you got them figured out, all you have to do is put on the right CD/Video and repeat as required, and the Sale is yours. QED.
Vote???
Are you nuts.
If you vote, it only encourages the bastards.
Here's a guy bitching about rising health care expense to businesses, yet supplies the public with a product that diminishes the consumers health. My excel model is bitching about a circular reference error.
well hey, let's add more controls and regulations and reduce free choice even further... that'll fix it
fuck the excel models and the horses they rode in on
Hey, lets be the cause of a problem we're going to bitch about. That'll solve the problem.
goddamned you are fucking useless... *plonk*
Hey let's cry about it on the internet, that'll help. I am waiting on pins and needles for your next post about a solution, oh wait it'll be more bitching and whining.
Yes, the government should definitely be allowed to dictate what we put in our bodies.
"I AM FOR THE IMMEDIATE LEGALIZATION OF HERB, BUT BAN MCDONALS! EVIL CORPORATE EMPIRE"
Moron.
You lack any and all reading comprehension skills, let me guess your class of 2010.
lol
My reading comprehension skills are just fine. Although someone should teach you the difference between your and you're.
Firstdivision: Then let's ban EVERYTHING harmful to us!
Like planes, trains, automobiles, bikes, electricity, fire, sodium, sugar, booze, pot, sex and being alive!
Happy now?
WHAT? No mo' ho's? Well fukashima!
Maybe he really wanted to "guess your class" of 2010? Like guessing all the names or something like that?
I think firstdivision was just complaining about hypocrisy. There is nothing for it.
Runaway train with a happy party on board.
Build into your excel model the notion that his supply to the public does not force the public to consume, and your circular reference error will be solved.
The #N/A error in your head, however, will be there for a lifetime.
Add in the drugs and hookers and employment in that age bracket gets quite a boost.
I cannot wait for the moment the Federal Reserve decides that selfies add to GDP and they apply $50k/selfie to the GDP calculation. That would mean the 12-40 year olds add quite a bit of value to the GDP.
The Brits added in prostitution and illegal drugs. Selfies seems quite reasonable after that.
Apparently this guy doesn't realize that it doesn't matter if $10.10 passes or $15 passes, it is about the promise and the emotion, not the actual facts or the results. It seems like the GOP is finally figuring this out as they reach across the aisle and begin negotiating to make our country awash with the invasion from the South. They do this not because it will strengthen the country or provide us skilled labor, or even votes, but that it feels good to not be the bad guy.
The new strategy for politicians is the same one Europe has used, give away the house, but make sure to grab some bribes and other baubles while you send the nation to its destruction.
The "food" at Carl's Jr. is shit!
Your exactly right, that was his only mistake. The politicians don't care, as long as they got theirs and F everybody else.
how much did that asshole get paid?
You MAF common sense getting in the way of ideology.
I'll bet he gets great benefits too. Henry Ford understood the concept that your employees should be able to afford the product they make but now even Idiocracy Carl's Jr and McD's putz CEO's are too greedy to give a flying fuck.
Too greedy? Are you stupid, dumb, or just a shitlib?
Profit margins at these places are razor thin, and most of these fast food restaurants are franchises - not some evil empire you nimwit. You raise minimum wages, the franchisers will quite hiring, or start using computers to do what minimum wage people do now. But hey -- these franchise owners shouldn't be there to make a profit -- but to provide jobs AMIRITE?
This $15/hour for minimum wage workers is more than the average starting salary of a first year attorney who bills 2000 hours in a year. But only in odd little worlds like yours is this ok.
yeah, it's better the entire market cap of every corporation should end up in the CEO's pocket. fuck the people, and fuck you too. loser.
Pudzer made a few million, personally last year. I guarantee you Carl's Jr. alone is worth hundreds of times that. We aren't even touching Hardies.
So not only do you suck at the English language, but you suck at basic math as well. Maybe you should submit your app to CJ's. I believe Pudzer is a ZH reader.
Or you could just gas yourself. Probably the best bet. Save the planet too. One less mouth to feed.
'nobody' is 'making money', but 'everybody' is chasing it. carl's jr. is not very good. in-out-burger is much better.
Too greedy?
How about unfairly charitable to CEOs? I don't see why CEO have to have multimillion dollar pay. We all know the stocks of these companies are not rising because they are doing such a great job.
Good luck getting someone to sacrifice time with their family, go to school for the better part of a decade, and burn a marriage or two for the same pay the average joe gets.
Id rather have one marriage and less pay -- but for those of my coworkers who put in the 80 hour weeks every week -- they deserve to make more than me.
Is this a joke?
People make these kinds of sacrifices all the time, especially in this shitty economy for much less if anything at all.
Sorry, if you have a skill that society considers valuable -- and you're willing to make it #1 in your life -- absent being a complete moron, you're gonna make a ton.
Yes, worker wages can go to zero and that is all right because rich customers are magic and come from rainbow fairyland. Just ask the Chinese. They can have workers as poor as they like and there are still plenty of rich customers available to buy everything they produce.
After the unicorn shits a skittle, a rich customer hatches from it.
Carl's Jr. "Fuck you, i'm eating".
The bottom line on labor: Make something less expensive and businesses will use more of it. Make something more expensive and businesses will use less of it
why not pay them $0.00 then, dipshit...minimum wage bad, slavery good.
satan has a two warts on his ass; one he calls ayn rand, the other one he calls andrew puzder.
The logic fail is strong in this one.
^ that
I am absolutely dumbfounded that this trillion dollar coin glaziers fallacy type thinking continues to paint the economic landscape.
Or why not pay have Carl's Jr. pay them zero and have the taxpayer make up the rest of what it takes to get into the "middle class"?
Oh wait . . .
what's that smell why not pay them $0.00 then, dipshit...minimum wage bad, slavery good.
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So I am assuming that YOU and those other people would show up to work for free? Are you that retarded? Apparently so with your post. Satan may have two warts on his ass, but you are satan's ass, thus you have two warts.
No way !!!??
You mean the market would set the price of labor !!??? But. but, but, but,...... government needs to DO something !
The only thing any rational person wants from government is for it to continually shrink and ultimately disappear.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr. (Literally ths time)
How about he answer as a CEO why his pay never goes down when the company misses all guidence, unless its voluntary
because you don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate... why don't you ask the board and HR why he's compensated in that fashion, they're the ones that are ultimately responsible for that
Thanks for the info Captain Obvious, but you ommited that he's the one that makes sure the clause isn't in there about his pay is dertermined by performance while the board plays along.
if it's so fucking obvious why don't you do everyone a favor and delete your original post... because if you obviously knew the answer there was no point to it... you're just here to stir class warfare shit while hiding the real issue... you do realize the board and HR have access to legal etc., so they review this shit, and they pass it, and the CEO gets what he gets...
the only point I see you having is the one on top of your head, unfortunately
You seem stressed. The new report by the Surgeon General recommends overly stressed should utilize suicide as a cure. I'm pretty sure that'll help you.
like I said... fucking useless
If you kill yourself now, you'll be a shining example of self-sacrifce to ensure the future of humanity.
You will make a fantastic useful idiot in the coming civil unrest.
By that you mean 'a target'?
Or somebody who is duped, plain and simple. I get his frustration with the bountiful hypocrisy, but he is focusing on it. Hypocrisy is not the only issue here, and no matter how hard we try, we're all hypocrites in one fashion or another. You are. I am. We may not see how, but I guarantee that if you really examine every action you take, you will find that you're doing things that are inconsistent with what you believe. Sometimes it will be intentional, because you need to do something to simply get by, even if you don't like it. Paying your income taxes for people on ZH is an example. You do it, not because you think it's good or right, you do it because you don't want armed men coming in and throwing you behind bars. Your average ZHer that pays income taxes is a hypocrite, and for a good damned reason. Other times, you won't even realize it.
I constantly tout local food security. Accordingly, every time I buy something that was shipped in from China or even the midwest, I am a hypocrite. But then again, I am not yet self sufficient. I would have starved or stolen had I not relied on the food system.
So is the CEO a hypocrite because of this? Probably so. But that is part of being human. I'm more concerned with the real world effects of raising the minimum wage and whether or not he is corrupt.
You seem to have a problem with hypocrisy. Others seem to have a problem with your complaining about it.
In President Obama's speeches this year, a steady theme has been creating jobs and economic opportunity for Americans
Leave it at that! His speeches are not what his actions will be, he is a liar! Got to hope this is not coming as news to anyone?
LOOK! OH MY GOD! THERE IS A BUTTON THAT MAKES MY TEXT LOOK LIKE THIS!
WOW HOLY SHIT!
WHAT IS GOING ON!=?
Labor is just another input, and should be treated accordingly in a free market.
The farmer will explain the security of his cages to the chickens. He will then explain the luxury of not having to walk so far in the smaller cages.
The fox will explain to the chickens all about the joys of freedom by having no cages or fences at all. None what-so-ever.
The moral to the story is don't be a chicken. Be either a farmer or a fox. If you have to be a chicken then you're fucked either way.
P.S. If the farmer doesn't need the eggs then he'll happily sell his cages to the fox ...
Let's see. I seem to have a choice for the same price.
I can hire Grandpa who understands the concept of 'work', who shows up on time, is conscientious and diligent in his duties, is grateful for the extra income and doesn't require fringe benefits because he is already 'retired'.
Or I can hire junior who expects to be paid just for showing up for work (and expects a bonus for showing up on time) is constantly texting or on the phone, is permanently afflicted with ADHD from 20 years of video gaming and has the attention span of a gnat.
This employment decision was already made when Grandpa showed up for the job.
As a guy who works with both "grandpa" and "Jr" ill tell you that while grandpa understands and is willing to work hard, his output is half that of jr, even on a bad day.
As the biblical saying goes, "the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak'
That may be so.
Still every store I have been in over the last few years has many Grandpas and Grandmas working the counters and backrooms. So some value must be gained by the store owners even if the productivity is less.
There is a lot to be said about consistent output, on time arrivals and a life time of working experience as opposed to a strong back and a quick hand. They clearly fill a business need or they wouldn't be working.
I think them "filling the business need" goes back to your first point--they don't cost as much in terms of benefits and don't require the oversight an experienced grandpa would have. Simple as that.
Plus the slip-n-fall is scary. I've seen it. A wonderful old man, falls and breaks his hip for 8 bucks an hour. Sad.
Your comment is very true, I am a "junior" but also know what work means and am very time oriented, sadly most people my age are worried about texting and have a lack of discipline
Grandpa might not last quite as long twirling that sign in the hot sun for minimum wage.
But look at the bright side. If he dies before payday . . .
Grandpa has already paid off his house and his kids have left home. Now he just works for a bit of pocket money and he doesn't want to earn too much or it will cut into his pension.
No?
Oh yeah, sorry. I forgot about 2008.
Actually, I meet a lot of people who complain that all the bosses ignore your experience and after you reach age xx, no-one wants to hire you no matter how good you are.
Still a bit of everything out there in my neck of the woods.
As long as he keeps Kate Upton on the payroll I'll be happy.
He is leaving out a key fact which he already knows.
His product, and the public's perception of taste, quality is only worth so much. Meaning if you raise wages on them, they cannot always just raise prices.
Demand is not inelastic for low priced fast food burgers. Raise prices too much and demand drops because the product value is not perceived to be worth that much.
McD, others face the same thing.
Additionally, with wages stagnant for everyone - raising min wage by 50% or more will NOT lead to more burgers sold, it will lead to less. Would you pay $6.00 for a Big Mac? Would you pay $9.00 for a Super Star with cheese (Carls burger)? Probably not. Eventually the min wage hikes will force other jobs to raise wages also BUT within 7-8 years we will be at equilibrium again with the other jobs wages rising, prices rising across the board. Then they will want more again.
Would you pay $6.00 for a Big Mac?
that's what we pay in France ;) The difference is that McDonald's is a quality fast food here, rather than just a cheap one as in the US. For instance some have a starbuck-coffee-like corner.
Horse meat is popular with the French, correct?
It's Frog/Snail meat actually
That's fine, but I'd actually like to be informed that I'm eating frog and snail before I put it in my mouth.
. . . "McDonald's is a quality fast food"
Just when you think you've heard every bit of stupidity mankind can offer up, someone says that.
French, what other explanation do you need?
ok, so it seems every loony has already downvoted/ridiculed this... Maybe it's time for a bit of reading...
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/born-in-the-usa-made-in-franc...
thanks for that link, quite interesting read. . .
particularly when comparing notes on the average amrkn palate that is fast fud is being "tailored" for.
with ingredients including GMO'd grains, hormone & antibiotic "meat" - with cellulose-filler to stretch that always cheaper "value", etc.
slap a bit of plastic Velveeta on yer wood-pulp meat, some "secret sauce" on the bun, voila! "happy meal" amrkn style.
I walked into a McDonald's in Paris because I really wanted to get a Royale with Cheese, just to say I did it. First, the McDonald's was absolutley packed with people. Amazing in a city of so many quality dining options. Second, JUST the sandwhich was like 6 euros, so I said forget it.
this is true... same goes for Germany, McD's there was surprisingly good (not that you make a habit of it, but in a pinch for some road food it was very good)... in the US, ugh, no thanks
The health of the American people, and consequently the cost of medical "care", should improve if McD and their ilk's business of providing poison to the proletariat deteriorates.
It would not make me unhappy if they lost all their business because their business models were no longer subsidized by the rest of us, and they were no longer able to poison Americans. Fifty years ago, most meals for the middle class and those poorer were prepared by the ones that were consuming those meals. We have not progressed, regardless of what all the "progressive" neo-conmen might suggest.
As CEO, i will only hire retired 45yo cops. They already have health insurance paid for life by the taxpayers. They are allowed to carry a gun,to protect us, because they are special and I am not. Only downside is they like trying to pick up all the female workers even though they are married.
Good luck with that "health insurance paid for life by the taxpayers" thingy.
The cops will be the last ones to see their free (or nearly free) health insurance disappear. It must be so. They're the ones with the guns protecting TPTB from the rest of us livestock.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-4LU79qbU
oblig
I'm speaking as someone from a working-class family. I started work scooping ice cream for the minimum wage at Baskin-Robbins. To put myself through college and law school while supporting my family
Yes, and back in those days, college was cheap and minimum wage was a modern day equivalent to ~$25 an hour. Thanks for playing.
And what changed between back then and now? I'll give you a hint... It happened in 71 and it had to do with Nixon.
laomei has a point, Doc. When I started working (min wage) I made $1.25/hr. Gas was $0.25/gal. $7000/yr was a good salary. If you just look at the stuff the average joe has to buy in order to function in an oil-based world, $10.10 really hasn't kept up. And, yeah, I get it and I know, prices rise with cost/unit. In '71 China was opened up and viola' - 35 years later that big sucking sound Perot talked about with Clinton's NAFTA became a typhoon sound from Nixon's former ground-breaking work. Well, we can't call 'em all and we sure has hell can't put Pandora back in her box, so, if I were a young fella' just starting out, stocking shelves and mopping floors again, I'd probably be very happy with a minimum increase, regardless of how it affected everyone else.
And the Fed must blow up the currency with inflation in order to be able to handle $17 trillion in debt. Doubling the minimum wage will spark inflation - no doubt about it.
And according to Schiff, doubling the minimum wage would cause 15% inflation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLr5oWfoWRY
Oh noes! It is the end of the weerld!
On the plus side, people would be able to pay off their debts. Bail out the banks via bailing out the people or bankrupt the people while bailing out the banks. You decide.
Okay, yes that last sentence is crap. For two reasons:
1. Jobs would go overseas where there are lower or no minimum wages.
2. The banks will just lend more money to idiots and your debt problems will all magically reappear. As long as people are stupid and banks are getting bailed out, your debt is gonna grow no matter what.
Given that all the jobs are going overseas, I suggest you start selling stuff to the people who are overseas. That is where the rich customers are, no?
I logged in to upvote and reiterate. This (^ Dr. Engali's comment) is the takeaway from the story.
Our money has never had the same buying power since we utterly destroyed it.
Yet we attack the leaves (D v. R, old v. young, intelligent v. cops, etc.) instead of the root (fiat "money" creation by an insolvent private cartel).
What has changed drastically is that productivity and profits have exploded while wages have not moved at all.
You have to look at average rents, cost of living, median incomes, etc.
The difference is that "back in the day", minimum wage @50 hours without overtime would be enough to hit median income. This means that minimum wage was enough to support a family as long as the breadwinner was fulltime and there was some work on the side, or a spouse kicked in a few hours a week to find some extra income. That was the 60s. In the 70s things stagnated and it was the rush to getting women into the workplace. Not out of self-empowerment, but simply because things had stagnated. A dual-income became required at those minimum wages, or a breadwinner working 2 fulltime jobs to make ends meet as they once had. The 80s was the era of credit cards. Dual-income was no longer enough, savings were being depleted and credit cards helped to stretch things out. In the 90s you had the IT bubble to supplement, and in the 2000s, you got HELOC and using homes as ATMs.
To hit the same level of median income, you need about $21 an hour now @ 50 hours a week. To account for other drastic increases in basic living, you're looking at about $25 to hit $60k a year @ 50 hours a week. It's silly to launch in the straw men arguments of $1000 an hour minimum wage and other bullshit like that. The entire "american dream" was based on the premise that as long as you went beyond the expected, by just a little bit, gave a little bit more, you could be middle class and see your family prospects improve greatly. The immigration waves were always criticized not due to them being "lazy", but rather them working harder, longer and being hungrier. Giving that little bit extra allowed literally anyone to make it, and that is what made the US great. Well, on paper at least, in reality the US was an utter shithole for a long long long time, up until around WW2, when everyone came back home after seeing what the rest of the world had to offer.
If a job cannot support that type of income, the problem is then either with greedy management or that job flat out shouldn't exist anymore anyways and be replaced with something that CAN. I'm sure I could do lots of profitable things with slave labor, crying about not having access to slaves anymore is a bullshit argument.
At present, to hit median income, it requires double dual income. That's 2 people each working fulltime at 2 jobs. Considering that noone is even willing to give a regular 40 hours in the first place and that schedules are shuffled around in a way to detract from having outside work... good luck with that! In reality, to get that 160 hours, you're looking at 5~6 jobs. That's INSANE. There's no margin for fuckups, no margin for error, one bad illness and you lose everything. Previously, if the breadwinner fell ill, there was still bandwidth within the family to cover as needed, and most had a thing called SAVINGS. There were also these crazy things called pensions, which rewarded loyalty to a company, but that all got destroyed in the 80s during the corporate raids.
The situation is bleak because no one wants to or dares to admit the problem. Admitting the problem means a solution must be found, and that solution is less profits, less crazy salaries and bonuses for the upper crust, and other things which corporate doesn't ever want to have to do.
@laomei "crying about not having access to slaves anymore is a bullshit argument."
good comment/analysis as per usual laomei. Reminded me of a man that once said that oil/ff was the equivalent of having millions of slaves working around the clock. Not surprising that when the cost of the slaves in the barrel stays high, the temptation is to make the slaves over the barrel pay it. The CEO is over the barrel too because a CEO will be replaced if profits fall. Hence, we get more bullshit stories in the bullshit MSM.
"bleak" is putting it mildly!
I'd gladly hire some cute, little 20-somthing to clean my apartment whilst wearing a sexy maid outfit. However, seeing as how that's "degrading, demeaning, sexist, etc.," I've no takers. Oh, well. Guess I'll just live like a horder and buy gold.
What's a "horder"?, I hear you cry.
A member of The Horde (see also: WoW, World of Warcraft, MMORPG) who accumulates as many items as possible and never shares them, sells them, or uses them. They will cling selfishly to these items until they are no longer useful and expired from game play OR hoard things like cloth that could be used by the guild. This often results in creation of extra characters simply for bank tab space.
Literally, "A Horde Hoarder."
(1) Player A: "Dude! You're not using that item. Sell it to me?"
Player B: "No way, I need it."
Player A: "No you don't, you haven't played the game in six months!! *sigh* Horder."
(2) Player X: "You have one level 85 character and seven level 3's."
Player Y: "FOR THE HOARD!!!11"
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Horder
Red meat for the red team. The minimum wage debate is an absolute distraction. It's meant primarily to distract, secondarily to divide (or keep divided). It's the monetary system, stupid. Credit/debt money, loaned into existence with interest attached. That's the eCONomy. This CEO may or may not understand this. He certainly benefited from it on the way up. I'm guessing Carl's Jr. expanded with the help of the banking cartel while his consumers lived off of tomorrows earning in the aggregate. He's not the original "Carl" who likely built the company off of some degree of sweat equity... I'm guessing he's the CEO brought in by a Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs or some such something or other. Now that we face the limits of the exponential function in reality, his reality is becoming more difficult to navigate. Shit seemed fine on the way up... on the way down people are going to be pointing fingers... most everywhere EXCEPT the banking cartel... and that's by design.
KridKrid - + 1,000
He is arguing against the minimum wage because he can't raise the price of a burger to pay for higher labor costs so it will eat into the companies margin. What government can give can also take away.
The BLS says that in 2012 1.6 million people make minimum wage or 1.1% of the workforce so practically nobody except for fast food workers of course and maybe convenient stores. I imagine I'll hear an argument from 7/11 CEO soon also. People making minimum wage get subsidies paid for by the taxpayer.
I agree with his aguments about Obamacare though, it turns the country into France. The French generally are not unhappy but then again there social services are much better than here I am told.
There's a reason most "convenience" stores are manned by immigrants.
At least the US army is hiring young people but gives the job of firing to the enemy.
everything he said doesn't matter, until we have cheap energy we will continue to have an economy that loses capicity
I guess this means Carl's Jr. $6 hamburgers will actually break the $6 threshold.
"I'm not speaking primarily as a business CEO. My company will adjust to new laws. I'm speaking as someone from a working-class family. I started work scooping ice cream for the minimum wage at Baskin-Robbins."
Yeah and you used to be able to pay for a year of college by scooping ice cream at baskin-robbins for a summer. These baby boomers are out of touch completely.
a good point, but after all the discussion in the student debt thread... inflation in college costs isn't just regular old inflation, it's completely steroid-infused out-of-whack inflation... you could keep up to a point but after 1992 all bets were off...
http://inflationdata.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/education.jpg
Not mentioned is that in the production workplace, that's where real goods are produced, the ordinary 24 year old is useless. Single mothers produce non-workers.
Really feeling Pudzer's pain. Poor bastard personally has to scrape by on $4.5 million.
FUCK THE MAGGOTS! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
I'm entirely serious. Back then, you could work part time at minimum wage for a summer and fund all of college for the year including food, books and housing. If you worked full time during the summer, you could toss in a car.
Currently, you would have to work around 60 hours a week all year long to cover tuition. Good luck with that!
60 hours per week at minimum wage will not cover tuition at even a community college now a days.
Even if it did, after working 60hrs/week, who would have time for school?
Next week on: "It's Everybody's Fault But Ours", CEOs decry the size of ANOTHER tax break being too small, and then end up funding "conservative" "grassroots" operations that will run underground viral campaigns that will end up blaming everything on poor and brown people.
"Fundamental Change"= Destruction of the USA.
Amazing a hard-core Communist could be elected President, yet alone his Destruction of America go unimpeded.
Trading 5 Taliban Generals for one NCO should at least give a clue.
Amazing.
Americans watch their country being Destroyed by a Man With No Name and do Nothing.
throw in a feckless, compromised, and complicit Congress. He couldn't do it alone.
O's not the real problem, a glove puppet for the true PTB is all he is.
I don't think the destruction started with him, either - been going on for a long time.
Not that I like the guy or anything, he's a politician and, therefore, not to be trusted.
Fiat, Fractional Reserve, Usury and Central Banks are the real problem.
I'm sure dropping the minimum wage to $1.25 would be wonderful for big business and will cure the high unemployment problem. I can't imagine how people cannot afford to live on that, after all, we hear there is no inflation.
I can't imagine how people cannot afford to live on that, after all
Did you even read the article? Minimum wage was NEVER intended to be a living wage. It is an entry level wage for those with limited experience, skills or education.
But the idea of working toward an objective by making yourself more valuable is foreign to many. It is easier to blame the CEO, "big business" and "the system". Raising the minimum wage hurts those the increase is intending to help. Small business and entry level wage earners get creamed, those evil "big corporations" love it.
sschu
There are many more effective ways of working to make oneself more valuable than holding a minimum wage job.
Name one that doesn't involve either breaking the law or excessive (read: govenment raises your costs) government interference.
anything that creates a self-sustaining income, doesn't include a "W-2" - preferably something that incorporates tangible "trade-offs" that one would normally exchange fiat for. . .
just cutting out the fiat middle-man skim is an eye-opener for many, and things accelerate from there.
That's pretty vague and does not get into all of the business licenses you'll need, and doesn't get into tax evasion. Like I say, name one that doesn't involve excessive government interference and/or breaking the law. I could go become a drug dealer, but then I have to worry about APD, BCSO, DEA, etc... busting my door down with M-16s. Or I could produce my own food and barter for what I need, but I'd still have to pay property taxes.
Yes, but holding a job, showing that you can get there every day and be ready for work is a fundamental skill that is required and not taught by our education institutions anymore. Instead they teach our kids that the system is rigged and they deserve a trophy no matter how they perform.
sschu
Yes, but minimum wage is not just for "entry level" any more. Now it's just a "job" that you should consider yourself "lucky" to have. Now you have college graduates with student loan debt working for minimum wage. Senior citizens who can't make ends meet working for minimum wage. And regular adults with families.
The cost of living keeps rising. Corporate profits keeps rising. CEO wages are in the stratosphere, but workers wages have remained stagnant for years, decades if you adjust for inflation.
When these assholes talk about how they could pay for their college when they worked for minimum wage in the fucking 60's I just want to hack them up with a fucking chainsaw. And then to see some people actually believe their bullshit...simply fucking amazing.
Now you have college graduates with student loan debt working for minimum wage.
So a "college graduate" with a degree in anthropology and a 2.7 GPA is somehow deserving of a "living wage" job? How exactly?
Even if all you say is true, how does increasing the minimum wage help these folks? How does the fact that "CEO wages are in the stratosphere" change anything?
The post medern mind, incapable critical thinking. It is easier to just ask Obama to fix it. Ugh.
sschu
The kid with the anthropolgy degree was conned - Try getting into the enginerring program at Texas A&M -most of the slots are filled by Chiness imports - there are no such jobs available anyway, that's why most of our colleges offer about 90% of their students worthless degrees at outrageous tuition -the criminal Oligarchs are exported our manunuacturing to China so they can increase their profits, bring in millions of cheap labor from mexico and make us all debt slaves. Our kids can't compete with the Asian imports anyway because we screwed up their primary education, detsroyed the family and work ethic and conned them into believing 4 years of learning bad habits with a shitty degree from one of our crappy colleges is a key to success.
Yes, the system is screwed up. So that means we raise the minimum wage to a "living wage"? Really?
BTW, I am an engineering recruiter and many of the resumes I receive are from non-US students with degrees in engineering seeking work.
And that is the fault of the Chinese or Indian students?
sschu
I don't think he ever said or implied that it was the fault of Chinese or Indian students, and when you really get down to it, it is our fault.
As someone who put themselves through college in the late 90's (albeit the cheapest one in the state) delivering pizzas and selling cases of beer out of the trunk of the car, it was still doable 30 years later. Just dont expect to go to harvard or notre dame on this strategy!
sschu:
Do you mean by that: "entry level before complete starvation takes hold of the corpse?"
How does one emerge positively from that "entry level" if their is not enough to eat, pay for a minimum level of medical insurance, get to work, live indoors? It sounds like it's more likely your victim will emerge from the "entry level" at the local homeless shelter.
Unless your victim gets a substantial subsidy from the taxpayers, that is.
If you are suggesting that work leads to poverty and homelessness, good luck with that.
Check this one out:
http://eagnews.org/prom-slogan-highlights-cps-failures/
This is Are Story.
Of course, raise the minimum wage is the solution.
sschu
You are generalizing and misunderstanding as well.
It's not that work, in general, leads to poverty and homelessness. It's the USING UP of one's useful life working for poverty wages, much like most of the low paid coal miners of yore and the company store that kept them in debt, could never get ahead. They weren't supposed to. They were supposed to just die of black lung disease when they were past their useful life.
The system was designed by rich white guys and intended to get the rich white guys even richer. That, in itself, is not the crime. It's the human toll that accompanied that process, just like the current fast-food industry, that was criminal.
It's the USING UP of one's useful life working for poverty wages .. low paid coal miners of yore.
Not sure what is forcing people to stay at these entry level jobs. It is a bit of a stretch to compare low paid coal miners of the early 1900s with fast food workers of today.
What holds people back is the attitude and message you deliver that the system is rigged by "rich white guys". I guess there have not been people of color or female who have or would rig the system in their favor. Mao, Pol Pot, Amin come to mind. No one is above reproach.
If you start out with the premise that one cannot succeed because of some uncontrollable circumstance like race or gender then why try? Sounds like the poverty pimp pitch.
sschu
SSchu - I am not sure you read my comment so I'll repeat it. 1.1% of the workforce as of 2012 make minimum wage. Fast food and convenient stores are that 1%.
I have a small business. My part-time, 57 year old coder is getting a raise to $17 an hour here in Florida where wages are shit, $10 an hour. He took an "entry level" position at $14 and has worked with me 3 months. You know what? When I have orders and he is off he will drop what he is doing and fulfill them on his days off or work late to get the job done and keeps his eyes on the network as a bonus. A business can easily increase revenues by incentives so small business isn't the issue. Nor is a megacorp operating internationally a "small business".
In August I am hiring two "entry level" sales people at $12 an hour plus commission. If they perform even just past drooling they will make $20 an hour. Fast food and convenient stores could also offer incentives. Clean bathrooms, hot fries and warm courtesy increases sales. But with rising inflation (real issue is Fed and captured government) you won't get those.
Between outsourcing and collapse in 2008 the supply of labor was huge and companies took full advantage of that. See the people making $10 an hour now when your out shopping or pretty much any service job? They are now pretending to work. Thats why they are texting and jerking off, fucking up my order constantly. It's business practice that eats its own tail.
This CEO has no vision except to bitch his margin may shrink by a couple percentage points but not mention incentives? Incentives are not freebies you make higher demands on your employees in exchange. But he requires $4 M salary and the board thinks this is kosher? This guy should shut the fuck up. He's embarrassing himself.
To achieve full employment, we need merely repeal the Thirteenth Amendment. Problem solved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd9YSrsLHn8
If you can steal [TAX] what you need, there isn't even the remotest care or concern to get anything right or even close to it....
I've worked for myself - either as an employer of as many as 15 people (1982-1991), or, as a soloist (1999-present) - for most of my adult life. As far as I was concerned my minimum wage was always ZERO, as in $0.00/hour, because, as a businessman, I either made a profit or didn't, and employees always got paid ahead of me.
After bankrupting in 1991, I realized how much I had shortchanged myself, because, though all of my former employees had to go find new jobs, so did I, having never saved enough from the business.
So, when I went solo in 1999, I decided that I would never have employees again and I've stuck to that. Some days I make NOTHING. Some days, I've made as much as $500. It's all a function of work-flow, need, boredom and opportunity. I could probably make much more than I do, but I am just not that motivated, preferring more downtime these days, as I'm approaching "retirement" age (I'm 60 1/2).
A few years ago, I almost hired a friend's kid part time, with the understanding that he would be paid in cash, but eventually didn't go through with it, after thinking it through. It just wasn't worth MY TIME and EFFORT, which is probably part of the reason why people aren't hiring kids. They have to be trained, and that takes away from other management work - time that could be better spent running a business. These days, with most businesses operating as less than capacity, there's no incentive to hire anybody, much less somebody who knows nothing and needs hand-holding for 60-90 days.
I applaud this CEO for telling the truth. Hiring is a business decision and most businesses these days are deciding that they don't need more employees, especially ones which need training, can only be put on for 29 1/2 hours per week on top of the excessive paperwork and expenses like withholding, SS, worker's comp, unemployment, etc.
Is there any wonder why most people don't trust the BLS numbers?
The math simply is not there.
We can argue about minimum wage increases until we are blue in the face. Lord knows I've seen my share of minimum wage arguments over the years. In the end it will get raised and we will have this argument again in five or so years. Why is that? It's because the root of the problem is the federal reserve and a debt based fiat currency. If we don't address the real issue which is a group of people who can dilute a whole country's buying power with the stroke of a key then we will keep applying band aids to the problem instead of coming up with a solution. But hey, arguments are always a great form of distraction.
Applying the band aids is what keeps The Great Distraction going. When we are constantly worried about the symptoms the cancer grows ... FED be gone and save America
"DING DE DING DING...ding"!
Concise, simple n' true. T'would be nice if the buck croonin. circuitous "de" bates on the matter turned a dead horse suddenly all a sudden after reading your post. "Fin" sans erratum.
Then we could, mayhaps talk of things not so...immutable- in particular, lotsa stuff frothing outta super neuro-concrete-ey brain pans, pans.
-pans?
:-)
Wpmdering why people didn't just flat-ass starve to death in the '60s, when the minimum wage for a fast-food serf was the current equivalent of almost $11 an hour.