This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Las Vegas Is "Screwed"; The Water Situation "Is As Bad As You Can Imagine"
"It's just going to be screwed. And relatively quickly," warns Tim Barnett, of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, telling The Telegraph, the situation in Las Vegas is "as bad as you can imagine". After a devastating, 14-year drought drained the reservoir that supplies 90% of the city’s water, the apparently endless supply of water is an illusion as Las Vegas population has soared. As Barnett ominously concludes, "unless it can find a way to get more water from somewhere, Las Vegas is out of business. Yet they’re still building, which is stupid."
As The Telegraph reports, as with many things in Sin City, the apparently endless supply of water is an illusion.
America’s most decadent destination has been engaged in a potentially catastrophic gamble with nature and now, 14 years into a devastating drought, it is on the verge of losing it all.
“The situation is as bad as you can imagine,” said Tim Barnett, a climate scientist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. “It’s just going to be screwed. And relatively quickly. Unless it can find a way to get more water from somewhere Las Vegas is out of business. Yet they’re still building, which is stupid.”
Things are not good...
Las Vegas gets just four inches of rain in a good year, and in the first four months of 2014 there was just 0.31 of an inch.
The Southern Nevada Water Authority, which has the task of keeping the city from running dry, has described the effects of the drought as “every bit as serious as a Hurricane Katrina or a Superstorm Sandy”.
...
However, Las Vegas still uses 219 gallons of water per person per day, one of the highest figures in the US. In San Francisco the figure is just 49 gallons.
But they have a plan...
Lake Mead’s water level is currently at 1,087ft above sea level. There are two pipes, known as “straws”, that take water from it to Las Vegas.
The first extracts water at an elevation of 1,050ft and is likely to be sucking at air, rather than water, soon. The second straw is at 1,000ft.
Lake Mead is expected to fall another 20ft towards that critical point by the end of this year.
Beneath the ground a mammoth effort is already under way to complete a new, lower straw which will be able to draw the last of the water from the lake.
But it is a painfully slow process as a giant drill the size of two football pitches advances at a rate of one inch per day.
That rescue project is costing $817 million and is currently expected to be complete by late 2015, but it is not viewed as a long-term solution.
Las Vegas also wants to build a separate $15.5 billion pipeline that would pump 27 billion gallons of groundwater a year from an aquifer 260 miles away in rural Nevada.
But a judge has refused permission after environmentalists sued on the basis that it would adversely affect 5,500 acres of meadows, 33 miles of trout streams, and 130,000 acres of habitat used by sage grouse, mule deer, elk and pronghorn, an antelope-like creature that is endangered in the region. The court heard that 25 species of Great Basin springsnails would be pushed toward extinction.
But in the end, it's a fals promise...
“It’s a really dumb-headed proposition. It would provide a false sense of security that there’s plenty of water and it would delay the inevitable decisions that have to be taken about water conservation and restricting growth.
“The drought is like a slow spreading cancer across the desert. It’s not like a tornado or a tsunami, bang. The effects are playing out over decades. And as the water situation becomes more dire we are going to start having to talk about the removal of people (from Las Vegas).”
Mr Mrowka cited Lake Las Vegas, a mega-resort where stars including Celine Dion live, as one of the “most egregious examples” of wasting water.
And then there's this...
One proposal is for landlocked Nevada to pay billions of dollars to build solar-powered desalination plants in the Pacific off Mexico, taking Mexico’s share of Colorado River water in exchange.
But Mr Mrowka said: “The Colorado is essentially a dying river. Ultimately, Las Vegas and our civilisation in the American South West is going to disappear, like the Indians did before us.”
* * *
The bottom line - get there now, watch the fountains, drink the water, swim in the lake... (and sell your house)
»
- 105427 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Nothing thirstier than a Vegas golf course.
http://www.fastcompany.com/1749643/big-thirst-nothing%E2%80%99s-quite-so....
Those Strip casinos are going to make for some cool pyramids.
Call Moe Green ...
"That man, was Moe Green..."
He made his bones while you were going out with cheerleaders in high school
Is that why he slaps my brother around in public?
Don't blame Moe Green, blame Linda Green.
Problem is people have been removed from the act of surviving for so long they take supply for granted on everything and in this material disposable world that is not possible.
Vegas may or may not survive, but the cost to keep it going isn't worth the effort
"Problem is people have been removed from the act of surviving for so long they take supply for granted" Fuck, I've never seen one sentence sum it up so well I was thinking you finish the sentence this way:
Problem is people have been removed from the act of surviving for so long they take supply for granted, screw everything up, and then go back to surviving
First it'll be an aquifer 260 miles away, then a lake 500 miles away, then another river 1,000 miles away and so on.
Either Las Vegas needs to conserve water and figure out a more sustainable way to impress the tourists, or it should be allowed to collapse under it's own foolishness.
Where have you been for the last few years? Nothing is allowed to collapse--ever.
/sarc
At least not on it's own.
In their mind if the ship goes down then so must all the lifeboats.
Postal...except 3 buildings in NewYork
Touché. But those were "necessary." One must keep the plebs distracted with various "terrorist" attacks, you know. We can't actually prevent terrorism with all of our spying, but if we had more resourses and didn't have that damned Constitution thingy...
/sarc
Yea its called there's a reason you don't live in a freaking desert. Unless you use water for drinking only.
Only a 2 hour drive to the place they call Death Valley, Gee, I wonder why its called that. Nothing lives. DERP
Death Valley: that place where one person died, thus giving it its name:
The valley received its English name in 1849 during the California Gold Rush. It was called Death Valley by prospectors[28]and others who sought to cross the valley on their way to the gold fields, although only one death in the area was recorded during the Rush. During the 1850s, gold and silver were extracted in the valley. In the 1880s, borax was discovered and extracted by mule-drawn wagons.
Death Valley is home to the Timbisha tribe of Native Americans, formerly known as the Panamint Shoshone, who have inhabited the valley for at least the past millennium. The Timbisha name for the valley, tümpisa, means "rock paint" and refers to the red ochre paint that can be made from a type of clay found in the valley. Some families still live in the valley at Furnace Creek.
- Excerpt from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Valley#History
Don't believe everything you read on wiki mate. its edited by just about any.
"Build a City in the middle of a desert and...
Yeah.. It's a desert. It's always been a desert. It's never going to be anything but a desert in the human span of time.
But on a long enough time line it may become an inland sea.
It will still be a desert?
Every state is getting its own Indian Reservation casino. Distributed network for money laundering and illegal transfers / payments. Tax evasion is deflationary, can't let that happen. Las Vegas must survive ... for the children!!
Tax evasion is inflationary. The less government gets in tax revenues, the more it creates through debt financing. The money retained by the evader is spent into the local economy, instead of syphoned back to the government.
Nicely stated!
And where did Harry get the money to finance the ponzi to sell to the builders to fleece the Joe that bought the house that Jack built?
Blessed by economists, regulators and beneficiaries, environmental impact fudged by industry "experts", politicians bought-off. Las Vegas, like Detroit, is just a reflection of the same America in a different "light," or climate. It is decay all around, and that which was pomised to be sustainable, will not be. The infinite growth, or our inability to understand exponential growth paradigm, will be our demise. We sold out our chance to respond to it for cheap oil, plastic junk, junk food, fraud, "security" and corruption. It is the song that will never stop itself, so it will become dirty and crisis-driven (like this immigration ploy - well I'm just sure O'Bama is going to offer the solution to this crisis-problem-solution tactic).
Sorry, back to Wall Street's vaudevillian cousin, Las Vegas...
Which district will have the honor of hosting the next 'hunger games'? There is a schadenfruede in me that hopes it is Washington. For me, the games are silly and I think we shouldn't be forced to play them. But if they are going to be played and we have to play them, I think Washington District would be the national favorite. Stay tuned to find out!*
* Are you not entertained?
Any place with a large quake could find it hard to get the resources to fix up afterwards. No matter how much money is printed, you can't print the physical building materials for repair and maintenance. How's Haiti doing ever since?
It earned the name Sin City for a reason.
Huh? I tought that was the Castro in SanFran
its at 1082 , but only as they let out a shit ton since March to spring flood below rivers.
Tomorrow it hits top 10 lowest ever level list.
http://lakemead.water-data.com/
Hooray
Water is like gold in the west..very valueable....Las Vegas can buy it from Colorado...as they should do...why support development in a desert..where the biggest attractions are pools with fountains
ya know I was just thinkin.. they probably don't want to drain that lake too much. There's no telling what they'll find on the bottom.
Or who.
Jimmy Hoffa
Las Vegas still uses 219 gallons of water per person per day..
Always blame the victims...
The court heard that 25 species of Great Basin springsnails would be pushed towards extinction.
So the court, in its wisdom, has decided to let a city die of thirst in order to protect a garden pest.
Said "garden pest" doesn't have two thumbs to mash hydrogen and oxegen molecules together. Let's just get those damn big building to collect condensation in the windows?
It wasn't the snails, the snails are an excuse to extort bribes.
A snail can't live without water for more than like a day.
Even less if you salt it....
Lord, I apologize...
Yeah, keep the city alive and kill off other species just so brainless assholes like you can vacation in a fucking desert and blow their savings in the casinos. Fuck you. Seriously. Fuck off and die already.
Pheonyte, you sound like a bug lover. What is a Pheonyte?
A pheonyte is a neophyte with dyslexia. It's also a type of snail.
Idiocracy the Documentary - it works both ways..
A single, 18-hole round of golf at a typical Las Vegas golf course requires 2,507 gallons of water.
I guess not everyone in Vegas plays golf.
I've never been to Vegas. But were I to go, it wouldn't be for no damned golf...
2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen and we still can't just make more of this stuff? Isn't most of the earth covered in this shit? Can the government just get on with moving the ocean already.
2H2 + O2 = 2H2O + Energy
It's not like there is a shortage of sunshine.
I thought that solar was gonna save us? Not American made and American Government subsidized Solyndra solar; but, Chinese made and American subsidized solar:
Isn't Harry Ried's son Rory busy displacing Tea Partying Ranchers as a preamble to selling thousands of square acres of Fed administered land cheap to Chinese Oligarchs so that they could put in a huge solar plant and sell Las vegas the electricity to make more drinking water out of their piss?
It's not like American taxpayers should own their own sunshine or energy infrastructure, or accept that living in the desert means living without swimming pools and lush lawns and water fountains...
Anything is possible with Government intervention, cheap Chinese fabrication, and other People's money...
And where do you get the Molecular Hydrogen and Molecular Oxygen?
If you tell me "electrolysis" of Water then that takes energy. That is Net Energy NEGATIVE and Net Water NEGATIVE. (Yes...you will lose some Water because of inefficiencies in any electrolysis system.)
If you tell me that you can use Solar Voltaics to electrolyze the Water then it becomes a question of cost to benefit.
Platinum, Palladium, and Silver (Solar Cells use that) are still rare and expensive.
There are no easy fixes. In fact there are no solutions at all.
Exactly.
Just wanted to point out that the equation was much more complex than "putting 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen" together.
I think the rain seeders have it backwards; instead of trying to squeeze more of the moisture out of the air, put more moisture into the air.
My plan is just increased evaporation. Along ocean coastlines, just need to make lots of flat runs with low walls around them, let the water fill in from the ocean to maybe half an inch, then let the sun evaporate it and carry it downwind to the mountains, deserts, etc. refill as needed.
If you really need to speed it up, fill the flats with straws to increase surface area and make more evaporation.
Evaporation rate increases with increasing temperature (aka the tea kettle effect). That's why the NRDC is predicting devastating floods and heavy rains:
http://www.nrdc.org/health/climate/floods.asp
"Scientists project that climate change will increase the frequency of heavy rainstorms, putting many communities at risk for devastation from floods..."
So the drought must be evidence of global cooling. We need moar CO2.
Then you can also collect the salt.
.... anybody want to buy some real estate for cheap in Lost Wages???
That judge will get overruled real soon.
Maybe all those endangered species can set up a Las Vegas act and ensure their survival for a few more years as their water moves to Las Vegas. Maybe call it 'The Great Basin Snail and Antelope Show' see how many laps the world's fastest antelope can complete in the time it takes the snail to cross the Las Vegas Strip LOL
Is this really on ZH?
Better this than Martin Armstrong's bullshit.
It's a toss up.
hard to believe, but water is a little more important than money and oil
The planet-wide "Death To The Loser" competition for water resources has already begun. It's just so slow motion it is hard to detect. But the decades-long consequences of unbridled greed and corruption combined with easy money and breathtaking stupidity are beginning to show in places like Las Vegas as detectable movement toward extinction. The tumbleweeds are gathering on the outskirts of town.
This is sensationalism at its finest.
The white "high water line" in the pic was formed during the 30's shortly after the dam was completed, and filled to capacity to test the spillway system. After a few years, the lake level was lowered to "normal", but the high water mark remains. Judging by years of experience on Lake Meade, the water level in that pic isn't too much, if any, lower than it usually is.
Lake Powell is the interesting one. (Above Lake Mead.) that dam and resevoir is absolutely huge...but unlike Meade is all sandstone. Took decades before the Lake was filled. Some estimate that 1/3 of the lake is in the sandstone actually.
Can't speak to Vegas because there are contractual issues relative to water out there and my understanding is California is in the middle of a terrible drought.
Destiny bitchez..
NAWAPA was actually a good idea I think.
Santa Barbara was told Lake Cachuma, which provides almost all the drinking water for the county was almost empty and it would tke 20 years to refill. Three weeks later a El Nino super storm drenched the Central Coast, and in six weeks completely filled the lake to overflowing.
Las Vegas sits on top of a massive acquifer, and the next el Nino event will drench enough rain over a massive amount of land to fill the acquifer.
Breathless reporting.
True but these rain cycles may not come in due time as the populations explode and use up even more water. Sure SB just made it now. But in twenty years from now that lake may be dry and gone for a few years before the Next El Nino fills it back up lol.
I'm not worried.
Las Vegas is not Argentina and will pay all it's outstanding bonds in full and on time...
....Right?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/usa-northlasvegas-fitch-idUSL1...
But, but; those Bonds are insured, too, right? ...right?
What do You mean a prime Insurer of the Bonds is itself broke and on the hook for Detroit's bad debt, too??!
http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/122_151/ambac-to-pay-supplements-as-vega...
LOL you dont expect those derivatives to pay up when all the insurers or issuers have no where near enough capital to cover their positions.
MBIA got hammered today...as well as a second muni insurer.
North Las Vegas, located less than 10 miles from the Las Vegas Strip, has cut its employee count in half since 2009 to about 1,100 workers. The city also recently let go of a handful of department directors, Wagner said.
LOL they cut the workforce by a half but the department directors who got the place in the mess it is in, only a handful of them got let go. Keeping the majority of the filth on the payrolls I see while the average employee who had nothing to do with the planning of the mess is let go (must of been the incorruptible ones). Just like corporate America which shipped all the manufacturing equipment to China. We know how this one will end up.
I wonder how the investments of the pension funds did, lol, what kickbacks got payed to what directors for investing that money into which guaranteed losing investment portfolio cooked up by Goldman Sachs.
This is the wild west with a twist, the banks are the robbers these days.
The 1974 neo-noir film, Chinatown, is about the California water wars of the late 1930s
California is heading towards a 100 year drought, supposedly.
Vegas is just more of the same. This reveals the extent of 'Moe Green's' vision. Build it and they will drink all the water and cash
their chips in on housing, business, and casinos. Rape and pillage
rinse and repeat.
Yeah, well we're taking proactive measures like letting all the fucking water out of the damn. Gotta keep the tidal areas from getting too salty. Literally tring to push the ocean back, which is stupid.
a drought in the desert. how bizarre and totally unpredictable.
How in the hell does Las Vegas consume 219 gallons per person per day?
Evaporation and toilet flushing...
"How in the hell does Las Vegas consume 219 gallons per person per day?"
Hotels, restaurants, golf greens, swimming pools, superfluous housing estates, millions of tourists showering and flushing toilets... It's all hubris and a huge fucking waste basically.
Historically, casinos are located at seaside shores (Biarritz, Monte Carlo, Atlantic City, soon the Crimea) and at natural springs (Baden-Baden, Evian, Vichy, Salins-les-Bains etc).
Las Vegas deserves to die.
The hotels. They are massive consumers of water. Laundry, dishwashing, showers. The toilets alone consume huge volumes of water. Hotels never have the kind of toilets you and I have at home, where you get to watch things slowly and lazily spin till you get a little hiccup, and it goes down. Maybe. Sometimes you have to have give it another try.
Every hotel I have ever been too has toilets that flush so strongly you can actually feel the air around you being sucked into it. You could flush your empty beer cans down those toilets.
Where will all the hookers go?
Reno.
Best tasting municiple water I have ever tasted.
#41
The hookers go back to Los Angeles. Many hookers come out from LA to work the Vegas Casinos on the weekends. They leave their day jobs in LA to make the big bucks on the weekends in Vegas.
It has become a growing problem as the economy deteriorates. It is really a shame.
I guess they have to make ends meet...pun intended.
yeah, if you like a 'jet fuel boquet' about your water...
And when lake mead goes low enough that it's below the Hoover dam's generators well good nite LV....And parts of LA....and no electricity to pump the errigation to the imperial valley,,,,no more crops,,,what the fuck keep building casinos fucktards.. I will miss my pistachio nuts.
"no more crops,,,what the fuck keep building casinos fucktards.. I will miss my pistachio nuts."
You aren't the only one who will miss their delicious pistachios:
Mark Cavendish declares US pistachios his favourite snack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWH7KOvNAyI
Hey that should drop realestate prices like 80%! Ok 90%. AFfORDABILITY! = RECOVERY!
I know Zero Hedge doesn't like to hear it, but there's only so much fresh water. There's only so much oil and only so much energy. Human ingenuity has brought us a long way, but we still can't turn lead into gold (okay outside a handful of atoms in very specialized experiments that cost billions to perform.)
As far as I can tell, humans have overshot what the natural world can sustainably reproduce. There's a thing that happens to animals that do that, and I think some of the vociferous justification for unsustainable behavior comes from an unwillingness to look that consequence in the eyes and acknowledge it.
It is a desert.
Nobody could have foresaw this.
I know. First we get cold and snow in winter, in WINTER of all things! Now the desert is going dry? WTF?
How can we live in a world where things are so unpredictable?
Instead of Canada pumping oil to the US, why doesn't it just pump water? It would be just a profitable and much better for their environment.
Canada exports tons of bottled water. Bulk Water is way too cheap to be worth it, at maybe a $1 per cubic meter ($1 per metric tonne). At least, not worth building an expensive pipeline. Maybe in the not-to-distant future.
Alternatively, Las Vegas could just blast an opening in the mountains to let some of that wet air through:
"The peaks surrounding Las Vegas reach elevations of over 10,000 feet, and act as barriers to the strong flow of moisture from the surrounding area. " - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas
Las Vegas will be ground-zero for the solar energy boom. Any decade now.
China & Reid are counting on it...
Dear Tim,
Using the word 'screwed' is probably not the best word to use when you're trying convince people in Las Vegas something is a bad idea..
Getting screwed is the whole reason these people are out there. Those dummies are likely to double down.
I love the US, would travel all over Nevada and probably still couldn't be bothered to visit Vegas. HST already made it sound like an absolute shithole and its probably worse now mickey mouse owns half the place.
I would have to classify this news as bad for real estate, but bullish or neutral for anything that can be carried over state lines.
I was reading a book about Indian cultures one time. It stated that the Indians in the midwest (where I live) all moved from the mid-west region during a terrible drought. I think it was estimated to be around 400-500 years ago. I guess similar things could have happened with Nevada, etc. I suppose one should be nervous it living in LV right now.
Good, I hope the whole fucking shithole burns to the ground.
what about givin them fat fuckin gamblers truck shipped frack water it tastes real sweet when mixed with monsanto corn syrup.
yes sir rebob
Tony, we here at the Hedge truly appreciate a green Birkenstock recycler.
Keep up the good work.
I've wanted to start a dental floss recycling firm for years, but Mrs K keeps drawing Obie like ketchup lines on the floor about it.
"Which is stupid" is perhaps the greatest three-word summation of modern day America that anyone could ever come up with.
Sad, really.
Las Vegas, New Mexico is not any better off...
How about this instead, "What happens in Lake Mead stays in Lake Mead"?
Who drinks water in Las Vegas?
It's all used for washing away puke and cleaning hookers.
Las Vegas is going to need a bailout - plus an executive order to force the desert sky to produce rain.
Why do Americans insist on building giant cities in the middle of the desert where there is no food or water?
Why would any banker finance development in an area that will obviously need to be abandoned by humans within the next 2-3 years ??
Bankers don't finance development, they bundle and sell off debt in the securitization process. Or get the government to insure the debt.
Shut down Vegas and Phoenix...problem solved.
Phoenix was mostly farmland and produced crops. Before the Central Arizona Project most of the Water was supplied by the Salt River. At 700,000 the Maricopa County population was marginally sustainable.
Tucson has a much worse water problem than Phoenix and has had one for many decades.
Here is a novel idea. Instead of paying out Fiat for Jackpots the Casinos in Las Vegas can now pay out in allotments of Water. The House always wins.
/sarc
Obama's fault
Don't forget the Bush guys
Who?
is there water in the bush?
What was the name of that Stephen Kings novel?
The Stand
Here is the movie version...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7MSNEbl-hA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqpIb1JVL94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXqGc9GQUow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIINHnlGU-o
It takes about 6 Hours to watch but is well worth it.
yeah, I read the book
I am not knocking reading (I encourage that.) but the movie is pretty cool also.
"However, Las Vegas still uses 219 gallons of water per person per day, one of the highest figures in the US. In San Francisco the figure is just 49 gallons"
Poor resource management.
San Francisco gets it's most of it's water from hundreds of miles away from the Hetch Hetchy water reservoir in the Sierra Nevada mountains in Yosemite National Park.
San Francisco should not exist--it lacks water and is built on an active earthquake fault line.
http://bawsca.org/water-supply/hetch-hetchy-water-system/
San Francisco uses an average of 98 gallons of water per capita per day because most people live in cramped apartments and condos without yards.
http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25090363/california-drought-water-...
Having grown up in Phoenix, this article is a real hoot to me. I've been talking about the coming water shortage since I was 8 years old. Now I'm 56. Anyone who wants a good read on the politics of water in the southwestern USSA should pick up "Cadillac Desert". If you watch "Chinatown" after reading "Cadillac Desert" you'll know where Robert Towne got his screenplay material.
re:Cadillac desert
a good documentary was based on that book
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkbebOhnCjA
Great book, I read it long ago and it really opened my eyes to what water really represents in the Southwest- Chinatown told the truth about LA politics, water may flow downhill anywhere else in the world but in California it always flows toward money.
Call the dudes in Dubai and ask how they manage to run a ski jump in the desert.
Totalitarian monarchy, a decent money print and good old fashioned nepotism, buddy.
BRING BACK BUSH!! BRING BACK HILLARY!!! USA!! USA!!! USA!!
Cue the old Sam Kinison routine: "We have deserts in America, we just don't live in them, asshole!" Until now.
I recall that holy Jonah was somewhat disappointed that God decided to spare Nineveh when the city repented at his preaching. I don't think Las Vegas will fair so well. The very existence of the place is a sin against all laws natural and supernatural. The hubris of building a sin city in the middle of the burning desert is just astonishing. The waste and environmental degradation needed to sustain it is insufferable. The idea that anybody would want to live there, inconceivable.
It was started by the mafia. They built it in the desert because of it's remote location. Add to that the great Boulder Dam, built for farming originally. Just raise rates until they conserve.
The universe is a closed system. Everything is infinitely recycleable. Amen.
good - vegas is a cesspool that needs to go down in flames.
and i'm not anti gambling, i hope online gets passed nationwide so casinos in vegas get crushed.
Their municipal sewer system is failing too. The Las Vegas strip literally smells like a cesspool.
Tap the Columbia build a pipeline to Vagas, just make sure the intake is south of Hanford.
Drain Lake Tahoe
Dehydrated gamblers can't think straight.
Hydrated one's are even worse...
The technology from the newly designed Molten Salt Solar Plant can be applied to new desalination projects. This technolgy could make the southwest and southern CA an energy and water mecca.
http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/molten-salt-solar-plant/
At what cost? To whom will the expenses be levied? Where does the capital for development originate?
The USA could have men on the surface of Mars today if they were willing to spend the money. But is it worth it? Is there a political will for that?
Sometimes it is not about the available technology but is a question whether, or not, that there are those whom are willing to shoulder the financial burden. And as America is insolvent, and is a Financial Train Wreck, there are not going to be many whom will financially supprot this.
men on mars sounds great. wonderful. i hope lots of people go there. but, really, what's the point? can't we create societies and cultures here on earth, where people are satisfied and don't need to worry about landing on mars?
does it make anybodies dick feel bigger? ego? i just don't get it.
Well you got sidetracked on an example and missed the point.
I am in San Diego. Why in the hell should I worry about Las Vegas' water problem?
Furthermore why should I be forced pay for it?
Why should I pay anything for more efficient energy systems? Should I be forced to pay so that some corporation can collect cash because they used my dollars to develop it in the first place?
I have no problem if men want to go to Mars. In fact if I want to support that venture then I will cut them a check.
But I do not believe that you need to be forced to cut them a check if you do not want to cut them a check.
That is my point.
would obuma allow a water pipeline from canada NW to American cities in CA and our south west?? did not think so, but it could have been a wonderful project with tremendous economic benefit for all...and the water btw is not lost it is on a geologic scale, evaporation in the hot south west - rain snow in canada and back to the south west ...we just do not think large enough, no need for high tech, let ma nature do the work. insp and tip of the hat to ol rome and what they did to move water..nothing new under the sun...
The US National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) has estimated that by 2020 electricity could be produced from power towers for 5.47 cents per kWh. The PS10 Solar Power Plant in Spain cost $46 million dollars to build and produces 23,000 megawatt hours of electricity per year. Additionally, molten salts offer a potentially more practical way of storing large amounts of electricity.
Whom do you suggest pay for the development of the plants?
If it is a totally private venture, and if the bottom line appears profittable, then I may consider investing.
If you are suggesting that a Government subsidize it then not only no, but, hell no.
http://www.thegwpf.org/near-bankrupt-spain-targets-renewable-energy-prof...
Spain's collosal failure...
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/finance/2011/november/spains-green-disaster-a...
It seems some of these solar plants with thermal storage are investor funded, and some is government subsidies. Some interesting ideas, solar capable of base load is a major breakthrough.
Rule of thumb..
..if it's such a great idea, then why does it need a subsidy?
America lost this argument a long time ago..
EREOI
BTU's aren't unlimited and a given btu can be expended for food or water generation, heating/cooling, transportation, manufacturing, or consumption. Choices have to be made.
John Pina Craven and Deep Ocean Water. A man even more eccentric than me.
BTW at 1000ft the ocean pressure is enough to overcome an RO membrane. However, because of the direct correlation between membrane permeability and temperature, a deeper depth would be required for current membrane designs. The mechanical engineering of membrane replacement and scrubbing would be a challenge at that pressure, but ocean currents would reduce the amount of scrubbing required.
Man didn't cross the Van Allen radiation belt in Kerosene rockets and plant the flag the flag on the moon.
It was cheaper to fake it and the real technology wasn't ready at that point.
An increase in water rates went into effect Jan. 1, 2014. The new rates were proposed by a SNWA citizens' committee in order to pay for essential water facilities constructed in Southern Nevada over the last several years.
Starting in January, typical customers with 5/8-inch or 3/4-inch meters using 10,000 gallons of water a month can expect to see their monthly bills rise by $1.04 in 2014, eventually increasing to $4.92 in 2017. Nearly 90 percent of residential customers fall within these two meter sizes. Because half of the proposed increase is usage-based, customers who use large amounts of water will see a bigger increase than more conservative water users.
Funds raised from the increase will be used to help repay bond obligations on existing water treatment and distribution systems as well as the third water intake being constructed at Lake Mead. Nearly 70 percent of SNWA’s overall budget is related to such capital construction projects.
http://www.lvvwd.com/about/news_rates.html
Wow! Water rates are being increased by .01 cent/gallon. Things must really be getting desperate there!
Wow, base service plus usage, about $10 for 10,000 gallons each month.
On one hand, that seems like an obscene amount of water for people to use.
On the other hand, that's about 100,000 pounds of water, at an estimate of 1000:1 ratio for water used to grow food, that only makes 100 pounds of vegatables in a month, so less than a pound per day per person for a family of four.
With hydro or aquaponics in a greenhouse, you can supposedly reduce water consumption 90%.
They gotta save Vegas, they're contributing to the GDP! Won't someone think of the hookers!
Vegas is a shithole tourist trap in the middle of the desert. I will enjoy watching it crumble.
Another 'outta water' story.
Ho hum.
I wouldn't worry about Vegas water, just tell the people to move as once ISIS turns attention on the USA Vegas will be an example and Tahoe emptied.
Goin' back soon! Can't wait. Only pussies drink water- unless you are topping off your drink. :O