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Guest Post: GUNS: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly
Submitted by $hane Obata and TRIGGER$
GUNS: The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly
Gun ownership and gun control are very controversial topics. If more people own guns then will there be more violence and more crime? If everyone is allowed to own guns then will there be negative consequences? Both of these questions are debateable and each of them has its proponents and opponents.
In this article we’ll take a look at some interesting gun statistics from an objective viewpoint. The point is not to argue for or against gun ownership and or gun control. With that said, let’s look at the good, the bad, and the ugly gun statistics.
The Good
Gun ownership in America – as a percentage of households – has been in a shallow decline since 1960. In 1960 almost 50% of households had a gun. In 2010 that percentage was down to around 40%.
Furthermore, the rates of firearm homicide deaths and non-fatal firearm crimes have also been falling steadily. From 1981 to 2010 those rates fell 45 and 75%, respectively.
Lastly, the incidence of intentional homicides per 100,000 people is lower in the US than it is in many other countries.
h/t @wu_tang_finance
In sum, the rates of gun ownership and firearm homicides deaths and non-fatal firearm crimes have been in decline for a while. Furthermore, the intentional homicide rate in the US is relatively low.
The Bad
The homicide rate in the US is higher than it is in most other developed nations.
h/t @gunsenseUSA
Moreover, gun ownership per 100 people is higher in the US than it is anywhere else in the world.
h/t @wu_tang_finance
Unfortunately, mass shooting casualties continue to be a problem for the US.
Homicide and gun ownership rates are down in the US, but relative to other countries, they’re still high.
In addition, annual mass shooting casualties are on the rise.
The Ugly
Spending on guns and ammo has risen with the gini ratio – a statistical measure of income inequality.
source: www.bloombergbriefs.com
it’s also interesting to note that violent crimes are often committed by the same perpetrators.
If the US wants to reduce the incidence of violent crime then it should shift its focus away from incarceration / punishment…
…to treatment, rehabilitation, and prevention.
There’s no two ways about it – guns are dangerous.
That said, it’s not a question of “how many guns are out there?” – it’s a question of who’s holding them.
We live in a reactionist society. Often times, we don’t deal with important issues until we have to. If we can take a more proactive stance and concentrate on preventing gun crimes, on reducing the number of repeat offenders, and on the rehabilitation and reintegration of criminals into society then it’s likely that the rate of firearm homicides and the financial burden associated with incarceration would fall.
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FNAR...reasonable cost for a semiauto 308, but very high accuracy.
http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/autoloading-rifles/fnar-standard/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrJhCwIYZ2c
I've been very satisfied. Mounted with Leupold hog scope, subzero laser illuminator and bipod.
NICE! I'm just fond of the AR platform...lots of parts available and some are interchangeable between, for example,2 or more different uppers if you are so inclined like 7.62 Nato, 7.62X39, 5.56, etc.
Right make wrong model.
SCAR 17
Very low recoil. It's become my favorite. FLIR for night,ACOG for day.
Sold my AR 10s.
Kept the M1As though. Just couldn't do it.
Yes, but hard to find and big bucks. Last one I saw for sale was about $2800 which is about two grand less than two years ago. The FNAR is solid, accurate and about $1200.
May I reccomend the Gunsite Scout?
+1 on the Scout rifle.
When it comes to a hand cannon I prefer a Ruger Blackhawk. 44 single action, loaded with 320 grain hard cast solids.
Shoot a wild hog between the eyes and it exits the asshole. Also does a good job on engine blocks.
Having killed over 150 wild hogs with a pistol, and seen countless more shot with everything from a 22 to a 50 cal, I can assure you that when you hit something with a flat nosed 44 - it gets slammed to the ground - and it does not get back up.
A Marlin 44 lever action rifle and a Ruger Blackhawk single action revolver make a tried and true combo. Same ammo, similar ballistics. Immune to high capacity legislative, pistol grip bullshit. Bring on your body armor - I'll just knock you off your fucking feet and make you wish you were dead.
Good for you, buy 2.
Good for you. Don't forget the ammo.
http://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/HuntingLicCertHistory20...
14.6 million licensed hunters in the USA circa 2013.
Texas over 1 million
PA 968,000
The numbers are staggering. How many have .308 scoped rifles? I bet a lot of them.
We are not alone.
All of the above is moot because good, bad, or indifferent, our Constitution guarantees us the right to own guns. Well, I mean assuming the Constitution still carries any weight, which is highly debatable.
Have you not been paying attention? Our Constitution doesn't seem to mean shit these days.
Gun control: The ability to hit what you aim at.
Any non american reading the comments would think that americans live on another planet and a pretty fucked up one at that. Man this article sure brought out the wacko side of the US populace. No wonder the rest of the world just shakes their head at the idiocity that makes up US politics and society.
Yes like last week when a mom in France walked into a classroom and stabbed the teacher to death. The real issue is why some people believe they have a right to kill other people, period, whether with a gun or any other means.
why do people feel they have rights at all
"Idiocity" is where you live.
Behold this.
Go fuck yourself bill.
I'm good with it!
I'm fucking crazy and I have a gun!
Stay the fuck away!!!!
Does that work for you?
@billwilson
Thats because most non Americans have given up their right to self defense and allowed their respective governments to have the monopoly of violence. I can't think of a more fucked up planet to live on than that.
Bill, you can keep your idiocy. I'll keep my guns. Best of luck.
maybe this Canadian should stick to his fucking day job. and leave america's business to america.
Well when the EBT cards give out in Buffalo, and all of those Guatemalan refugees have been spoiled for a few years, where do you think they are going? Got Gun?
Got Many .
That homicide chart, What the hell is happening in Greenland?
"Eh-rabs" from Toronto.
Sometimes quickly buried deep-thread comments are worth the dig. Yours was worth the dig. Green arrow.
Wonder the.same. Norway looks calm, and I think they have connections.
"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.
Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to
become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."
- Justice Louis D. BrandeisIf our leaders and our government think it can solve all of its problems with guns, of course, many of our more impressional citizens will think the same way.
Damn good thing they had that attitude back in 1776!
Gun-control, centralization, works...for those at the center, behind armed thugs and goons, that is.
Well flanked wherever they are.
Know this.
un armed house holds should be required to post a sign stating "this is a gun free house", I know alot of us gun owners will sleep better at night knowing our chance of a break in just dropped to near 0.
how many guns protect 1600 pa ave or any rich neighborhood in holly wood or the hamptons?
if you need more, my wife dragged me to a mom's against guns march on DC, years ago the featured speaker a lesbian entertainer had 6 big guys with MP5's , my wife looked at her and her thugs and said: "Ive been had"
never hear word one about gun control from her sinse..glory be. ps she now can shoot a nice 9mm i got for her.
We have insane psychopaths and narcicists in charge of our armed forces and nuclear weapons. small arms in the hands of the people are the least of our fucking worries...
There's an ever-so-slight disconnect between going "from an objective viewpoint" to the subsection headings "good", "bad", "ugly".
Yep. And the fact that the statement:
"Moreover, gun ownership per 100 people is higher in the US than it is anywhere else in the world."
is listed under "the bad" was just a teensy weensy clue that this "objective" writer should think twice about his objectivity.
Problem is it's all shamwow to the lowbrow on the teevee.
Please enjoy some reverend Al vs. Teleprompter.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ggHWRpsMEmk&feature=kp
this article is actually interesting, though i thought it was going to be some left wing totalitarian horseshit.
first the idiotic. the idiotic writer tries to imply causality between the rate of gun crimes and gun ownerhip. so despite the idiot's desire, he fails to ackowledge that many other factors could explain it. the most likely factor is the aging poulation.
second is moronic. the moron wants to imply that high gun owership explains homicides and mass shootings. almost every single mass shooting event is a cia terrorist operation through which the rockefeller nazis hope to elicit a scream for gun abolition. the assholes can kiss my ass.
third for something good. incarceration is evil and retarded. it is a stupid fuck's solution to a complex problem. not all can be released from prison, but i dare say that 80-90% could and should be released under some other penal system. prisons are a grotesqe barbarism and the outworkings of a totalitarian demented mind - just like those of the bush crime syndicate.
You're right. That last part caught my eye.
And his statement?
…to treatment, rehabilitation, and prevention...
Right.
Release all non-violent offenders to work release. Treatment is as follows. Execute murderers. Castrate rapists. And do it DOWNTOWN, in the city square with bleachers. Let it be a true example.
We just had an Indy Police Officer killed over the weekend. 3rd this year.
All by violent offenders that had been released. Some multiple times.
All of them Trayvons,,,yet, they'll want to come for mine? Fuck that. They don't respect a police officers life, they sure as shit give less about mine.
Let those fucks ride the lightening and be done with it.
.
White Lightning is rayciss.
I like the idea.of.public.beatings for.some.crimes in order to cut down on jail populations. I think it should first be tried on any politician that shirk his/her oath of.office. I also think an ass.whipping is in order when an appointee by an office holder screws up as well, for.the politician and the appointee.
Televise.it.
Fucking POS post this one was. Don't waste your fucking time. Just remember, Hitler took the guns before gassing 6 million jews and poles... And how is the fucking gun control working out for Mexico or Chi-town? fuck you and your stats!
And in Turkey, and in the Soviet Union, and in China, and in Cambodia, and in Uganda.....
And when they get rid of the 2nd Amendment, the people who read and post on ZH will be near the top of the government's confiscation list.
Smaller Gov: Hitler did not take any guns away, Herr Reichwinger! Read some history! Your ignorance is abysmal!
Let me recommend this hour long documentary about the History of Gun Control. In case you think that your government's interest in you being firearm free is "benign"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaDzKzKT6nM
lol...really?
May I suggest less meddling shrinks over prescribing mind altering (legal) drugs starting in the formative years of a childs brain development?
Read it and weep for what you've done, Freudians:
http://www.cchrint.org/school-shooters/
Typical Leftie, Lib, - violence in society is a functin of its racial makeup, for example, when Britian was exclusively an Anglo Saxon country crime was at a minimum, in terms of both volume per 1000 and the type - the Bobbies weren't even armed. That changed when large numbers of Negros, Arabs, Pakis, Gypsies were introduced itno the mix. The level of violence, sexual assault, organized crime, etc, has skyrocketed in the new Brown/Black replacement people.
Race has nothing to do with it. Culture does. The welfare culture has a lot to do with it. Liberal policies have created moral hazard and broken the back of minority communities. Subsidize poverty, you get more poverty. Make drugs illegal, you create black markets where violence is common and very bad people make lots of money. Tax the rich, you get less rich and no one left to pull an ever growing wagon of thieves.
It's just like Redd Foxx said. Being a nigger has nothing to do with race. There's lots of white niggers.
I think the traditional term for this is thug. There are lots of thugs out there that come in all colors, but they tend to center around the welfare culture. Decent, honest, hard-working folk are rarely part of the welfare culture, and by definition are not thugs, thieves, or degenerates.
Welfare didn't make Hispaniola into Haiti.
This article doesn't belong on zerohedge, it belongs on marketwatch.
Gun ownership is down as "good". I would say that is awful:
1. Nobody to stop the Jackboots
2. Nobody to stop the criminals
3. Nobody knows how to shoot gun, if we got to war
Isn't Chicago a gun free zone? Not having guns doesn't reduce crime. Bet if a political figure has a gun jammed down his throat, we could make millions on a depends commercial and deflect corrupt policy.
I nominate Michael Madigan. That is his hood.
??? Not from that shit hole state. Please explain.
For starters, he recently proposed the $500 mil taxpayer funded
Soetoro library. You can work your way back 4
decades from there via google.His daughter is
Il atty. general.
THE machine.
Oh shit FACTS! It's time I cover my ears and start yelling DENY DENY DENY DENY!!!11w
The answer is capital punishment. Carried out swiftly.
So subtract SSRI's...
False flag 'government' op's to get the guns out of enemy hands... AND YES you supposedly 'Liberal' numbnut shitstain..I do mean You. Sandyhook was a government op. PERIOD. Just because your little pussified ass doesn't want to 'rock the boat' doesn't mean reality changes dimwit POS.
WAKE THE FUCK UP.
OKAY, contrary to leftist opinion ( not facts mind you, that would shut these intellectually void wanna be porch monkeys down back to reality) Government (the massa)n ISN'T YO Freind,
THE MASSa is killing you BRO....
Seriously...It's lies are literally killing you.
LBJ's grandkid's......
Wahlaaaa.
On to the next bullshit excuse for the criminal gang AKA 'government' to continue playing their sick ass game on us.
Slaves actually had it pretty good.
At least the rules were advertised.
This shit is going ...............
DOWN.
If you want to read some really ugly statistics, look here: http://www.studentsfirst.org/pages/the-stats
I wonder what the statistics of book ownership in the US would look like ... oh, wait, an educated population is acutally harder to control ...
if the gun ownership rate has gone down, where did all the un owned guns go?
F BS.
Since this evil creep was installed - gun checks are running about 15 million a year for 5 years or more. Every check is for about 1.5 guns as a check can be more than one. So in the past 5 years, a country with probably 300 million guns added about 60 to 70 million more guns. Who ever thought a saturated market would buy even more guns?
The lefties also always try to say the number of hunters is down.
http://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/HuntingLicCertHistory20...
Well in 2013, there were 16.3 milion licensed hunters.
i suspect that the people have stopped telling the truth to Gallop...those guns didn't go anywhere, except into safes.
Guns have been around here forever. The question becomes "why all the shooting deaths NOW"?
Aside from the sensationalistic school shootings and such, we know that a very small group of people are responsible for the overwhelming number of murders.
If you really wanted to have the murder rate drop 80% tomorrow, find a way to get guns out of only historically democrat-voting populations. They are doing the overwhelming amount of killing, and dying.
The only correlation you need is the near-genocide of the Black and (to a lesser degree) Latino communities since the "war on poverty" began. Look up murder rates per 100k as it "progressed" over the decades. It's gone absolutely insane. Welfare penalized marriage and encouraged bastardization. Males now grow up completely unsupervised in feral environments. I saw this has it developed, and had to move several times to get away from it.
Add a dash of thug culture....and presto.
You have Camden, Chicago, Watts, Detroit, (fill in your nearest blue inner city here).
This is not about guns. It never was. And never will be. And it's NOT about race.
It's about stupid, misguided, & heinous liberal policies that have caused a perpetual bloodbath.
Judging by the collective intelligence of the voting public, it won't be ending anytime soon.
That is because those groups affected have made a deal with the devil. They stay poor and unmarried, pop out kids by the bushel, and their political masters will provide them with just enough subsistence money. Of course in return for votes.
This is a tragedy on so many levels, with so much misery and so much lost human potential.
But the liberals will keep pressing on, no matter how high the bodies pile up.
There's really nothing anyone can do. Except move away from it.
You'll keep having mass shootings until you roll over like we did in Aust.
As for the rest of your post, fits with the Tavistock meme infiltrating most western nations and cultures. We're viewed as useless eaters and treated and entertained accordingly, but we can individually decide not to buy into the crap and be who we really are - when we work out how to get through the layers and layers of our conditioning.
Your last sentence poses the greatest challenge - "where" is away from it?
"Where is away from it"?...Anywhere "they" are not.
"They" are typically in inner cities. Or anywhere a liberal gets elected. STay away from that, and you will be ok.
Unlike Oz....our nation can be inhabited in the great rural middle. Even with over 300 million people, the place is still barren but eminently habitable. In fact, it's probably one of the safest places on earth.
And you will have plenty of murders in Oz, you just won't read about them.
The media will ensure you are kept thinking the way you are supposed to be...i.e. Gun control is working!
rehabilitation and reintegration are total bullshit.
most career criminals are sociopaths and there is no cure. Poverty doesnt cause crime, criminals do. Sociopathy is genetic and some ethnicities have more of it.
I would ask you for the empirical evidence on that, but then again, we're at Zerohedge. Specially on a thread with facts which everybody does their hardest to deny...
The chart graph with Sandy Hook and Aurora should be clearly labeled.
False Flag events to destroy 2nd Amendment.
Google Wolfgang Halbig and Sandy Hoax.
I know. It was all a ruse by Al Gore and UN climatologists to take away yer gunz and TAX YOU. Oh the humanity!
I for one support legislation banning all guns in the US. If guns are banned law enforcement will not need them either.
So... Law abiding citizens will have no guns. Criminals will have guns. Police won't need guns? Liberals are illogical. The state wants to be the only one with guns, because they then have nothing to fear from the public. They would never give them up. In any case, criminals don't follow laws. Actually, they routinely break them. That is why they are criminals.
Great idea! I'll give mine up right after we verify that Homeland Security gives up theirs, and all hardened criminals give up theirs too! Let me know when and I'll toss mine in the bin!
I noticed the one statistic the writer didn't provide is the crime rate in areas where there is a higher degree of gun ownership. In areas where a decidedly higher percentage law abiding people are packing heat, the relative crime rate is WAY THE FUCK DOWN!
Put that in your "good" pipe and smoke it you douche bag writer.
How about the proven research on this one.
Armed Citizens and a Fasciist Police State cannot coexist.
America is pushing the envelope on this one, i.e. drifting towards an event, while in uncharted waters.
So which "developed" country has a homicide rate about 4 times that of the US? And from which "developed" country is the US importing millions of people? Mexico, both times. Brilliant.
The ACLU and other lib groups have made sure that prisons are well enough appointed with creature comforts (not just 3 hots and a cot) so that prisons may be thought of as a home away from home where no hard labor is required - after one revisits the joint time and time again
I found that chart showing the % of population incarcerated going back to 1920 extremely interesting. For 60 years we were always at or below 0.2%.
Then in 1980 something really changed and we have the proverbial hockey stick going up to 4X that prior level.
That amounts to an annual increase of about 11% to 12% since 1980.....that is an amazing ramp up and I doubt it is due to our police getting better at catching and prosecuting criminals. Which leaves us with the alternative.....we have far more criminals committing crime. My guess is that drugs are behind the ramp since 1980....just a guess.
If we legalized all drugs, we would put all the drug cartels out of business and we could get rid of the DEA and save other time now spent by police on drug crime, permitting them to focus on violent crime. We could also tax the drugs and spend a percent of that revenue on drug treatment programs. But I imagine this will never happen as there are certain special interest groups that would suffer, especially those government agencies whose sole function is to reduce the amount of drugs on the street.
When everything is a crime, it's easy to fill corporate-run prisons.
Who is the commie bastard that wrote this piece of trash? While the stats are interesting, exactly the wrong conclusions are drawn. More guns, less crime. Also, crime as a whole is not examined here. Of course in places where guns are hard to acquire they will have less gun crimes, but that says nothing about crime or even violent crimes. Moreover, it overlooks issues such as over medication and the fact that the us doesn't institutionalize mentally ill.
Producing a music video for a rapper. Just got back from a meeting. Nice guy. Rode around in his car a bit and listened to some beats.
Don't ever mess with a rapper. There's an entire gun show packed away in their car's console.
Why is gun ownership bad? And what then has the numbers about people in jail to do there? Does it mean gun owner should be put into jail? How do you think the "unlawful" gun holders will be stopped if they decide to use the weapons to threaten? If gun ownership is bad how comes that you give all the policemen guns? Sorry this an extremly poor blog entry, by any means...
60% of firearm deaths in the US are suicides(liberal-progressive types should be down with the right to end one's own life). The vast majority of the rest of firearm deaths in the US are due to violent minority crimes, including gang and drug warfare. Less than .1%(one tenth of one percent) of firearm deaths are from mass murders(more than 3 killed at a time).
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/05/24/suicides-account-for-mos...
http://newobserveronline.com/nonwhite-crime-apocalypse-envelops-new-york...
http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.html
http://dailykenn.blogspot.com/2012/07/why-blacks-attack-old-white-people...
The article is pretty scattered, but does make the point that it is a small number of 'bad' guys that commit most of the crimes - showing the point that people kill people - regardless of weapon.
Gun control is the final admission that the Constitution has been suspended and the call to arms for all freedom loving Americans whether they own guns or not.
It is the one thing that can turn good citizens into 'criminals'. It is the breaking point that turns taxpayers into terrorists.
I suspect that they know this and are saving their efforts for the final assault...or they just use it as red meat for the blue masses.
There's nothing controversial about gun ownership unless you also support slavery or genocide or both.
Furthermore, this isn't a serious article because it fails to address the issue of psychotropic drug / SSRI use and the extremely strong correlation between these drugs and "mass casulty" shooting incidents. (Drug companies sure would hate to be found partially liable for all these "mass shootings.")
Saw one of those stunts that liberals love, where the woman mayor and woman police chief walked the streets of north Minneapolis after a violent weekend. Everything was going fine with all the 'touchy feely love' to show that things are safer until the local representative popped up while the local TV cameras were rolling and brought up the real issue - which is that judges are being too lenient on criminals that commit crimes with guns. This small minority of criminals either never get jail time or get so little that they are back on the streets ready to commit yet another crime.
Definition of a refugee:
1). Someone that didn't own a gun
2). Someone that didn't stack enough ammo and ran out
3) Someone who is on his way to some place else to die.
You lost me when you started comparing the US with other nations....pointless.
I'm a good shot with both hand gun and rifle. My only hand gun is a .22 Browning semi auto target pistol. Last time at the range the guy next to me and his friend were shooting a very nice 1911. He invited me to try it and of course I said yes. I'm 6-3 over 200# and the gun felt great in my hand.
I emptied one clip, with one bulls eye at 25' and nice tight grouping. Last shot I thought I missed the target. The gun's owner was looking at the target from behind me while I shot his gun. He corrected me and said I doubled the bulls eye. Nice!
I'd love a nice 1911. Recoil was barely noticed because of my mass and hand size.
Shocked to hear the wife tell me last week she wants to learn to shoot. Lots of wild life in our area and she says she's tired of being afraid about running into a mountain lion.
Rock River sells a nice one on the low end for under $600. I got a Smith & Wesson 1911 and love it. Bought a Glock 21 at the same time (.45 ACP also) and far prefer the 1911 from a feel/handling standpoint. The Glock has great reliability, but the accuracy seems worse, and I'm a bit leery about the whole deal with needing to "dry fire" it as a dissassembly step, most of the negligent discharges I've read of with it are related to people failing to clear the chamber before doing this.
For fun/cheap shooting and the rote of getting into good cleaning/maintenance habits you can't go wrong with one or two of the current manufacture black powder revolvers like the 1858 New Army Remington. I mention that one because you can have multiple loaded cylinders for quick changeout and I've found that they are surprisingly accurate with consistent loading. They run under $275 with accessories for one and you can still order them through the mail with no BGC/paperwork to worry about.
FUCK ALL THIS SHIT.
BLACKS HAVE THE ABORTION TO KILL THEIR OWN.....
I use this argument/stopper for every black person that spouts anything close to racism. According to the US Census, as of 1980, the population of people in the US identifying themselves as "African American" in the Census was around 13%. As of 2010 - 30 years later, the Census was completed again.The population of people in the US identifying themselves as "African American" in the 2010 Census was around 13%. These two facts are easily researched and irrefutable. 13% Why the static number? It seems "African Americans" are everywhere, being OVER-represented on TV, in magazines, etc. Again, this is easily researched. African American women ABORT 2 out of every 3 newborns. see: http://www.blackgenocide.org/black.html ..and numerous other web sites for this approximate statistic. African Americans always seem to want "respect" from everyone else, and cry racism at the drop of a hat. (See Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton). However, ANY discussion of "racism" must start and END with this - based on the above statistics;If a race cannot RESPECT ITSELF, AND WILLINGLY ABORTS 2 OUT OF EVERY 3 BABIES BORN TO IT, THEN THEY DESERVE LITTLE RESPECT NOR OVER-EXPOSURE.
I don't really care. Point blank...no article, argument, majority of morons, president, congress or a hot chick have the authority to take my second amendment right to bare arms. One or more of the aforementioned may have the power to take my second amendment rights but in no way are they authorized to do so. My natural right...your natural rights. Do not give them up.
Prior restraint arguments against the second amendment are by nature authoritarian. You might commit a crime so therefore your rights must be infringed upon. It's also a collectivist (another word for authoritarian) argument, your rights must be curtailed for the supposed good of the collective. Or someone else commits a crime so you must give up your rights for the collective.
But understand this. I will never recognize anyone who try's to deprive me of my rights by fiat, majority or whatever. This doesn't mean it can't happen, but I will not just roll over. Same with the fourth and tenth amendments. I cannot stop those who would usurp these amendments but I do not recognize their authority to do so.
With the federal government, you are dealing with a gang, nothing more. It is a violent gang that uses the threat of force to steal from you and to make you do what they want you to do.
Once you realize that, you realize that you do not have any real rights. If they say you do not have any rights, you can whine all you want, but ultimately you have no recourse... unless enough people agree and the government becomes afraid of you... and you avoid being killed by them.
I do realize the criminal gangs that seek to usurp my rights. I do not, however, recognize their authority to do so. Yours is a fatalistic point of view and you've already given up your rights. Why would they respect your natural rights if you give them up so easily? As I pointed out, the power exists to strip me of my rights but I will not hand them over without protest simply because they seemingly have overwhelming force. You are welcome to give up, I will not.
See, I have always assumed that the reason that the federal government does things the way it does is because it likes conflict, it likes selling guns, it likes making the people dependent on drugs and the money and control it brings, it likes putting non-violent people into prison and it likes to have an excuse to heavily arm the police and turn them against the people.
In my world, one should always look at the actions of the government and not its words. The actions seem to give a truer indication of intent and government officials seem to lie an awful lot. Their words don't mean much.
Because of my above assumption, maybe we should look a little closer at the homegrown terrorist attacks and who really benefitted from them and also how much gun violence is instigated by police ... who are typically not charged and jailed for their crimes.
Interesting maps. Wonder how they define "homicide"? Because the middle east should be dark red with gun murders. I guess endless trible war doesn't include homicide.
Gang homicides are really just negotiations.
At least the "ammunition shortage" nuts have quieted down.
Sure, .22LR is still hard to come by, but overall ammo prices are down and availability is up.
The shortage was never a threat to the ability of American citizens to form a guerilla insurgency. America is so overflowing with ammunition, you could shut of the supply for years and there would still be plenty to defeat any attempt at martial law, invasion, or occupation.
Bait, think before post, and no, you can't have mine.
Hey Bloomberg- Where's the graph that shows the negative correlation of homicides to gun ownership: In the cities where the homicide rate is highest, gun ownership is lowest.
Inconvenient to their propaganda
80+ people shot in Chicago this past weekend, at least 14 of those killed.
Strictest gun laws in the country.
That is my two-sentence rebuttal to this POS article.
Mass shootings? Mother Jones? Are you serious?
"The homicide rate in the US is higher than it is in most other developed nations." if you subtract out the gang violence it is a miniscule blip.
"Spending on guns and ammo has risen with the gini ratio – a statistical measure of income inequality." I assume this includes the billions of rounds purchased by the IRS, EPA, USPS, etc.
"Unfortunately, mass shooting casualties continue to be a problem for the US." All committed in 'gun-free' zones. Stupid is as stupid does.
In spite of the stupidity of the left and their continual 'de-education' of the sheeple, the US is still the anchor of freedom for the world. Without the USA, and our guns, the world would most likely be a warren of dictatorial hell-holes, albeit 'gun-free' hell-holes.
Freedom ain't free.
For some reason, they always forget to subtract the number of deaths caused by the police state. That will also cause a major drop in the statistics.
Let us also not forget that without the Seconnd Amendment, the rest of the Bill of Rights are just words on a piece of paper, for we would have nothing with which to defend the other Amendments.
As a gun owner I still liked the info. Good article. Although as the Ugly shows, America is just too diverse (ethnicity and economic classes) for one size fits all policies. Which I why intend to prefer states rights. Find the state that fits with you.
The war on drugs is a disaster and rehabilitation is part of the solution. But referring to the Ohio study with 1% committing 57% of violent crimes....do you really think these worst offenders can be rehabilitated? Kill war on drug, at least legalize marijuana and reserve prisons for these worst criminals. Rehab lessor criminals. I agree once someone does time they come out much worse.
Is this a thinly veiled attack on the Bill of Rights. Or is this a MDB type joke.
Let's have some adult talk for a minute:
Damn skippy they're dangerous. Humans are the most dangerous creature on the planet.
As a man that has God given stewardship over my own life, and responsibility for nurturing little lives, you'll not keep me from my rights.
If you think you're given stewardship over my life by vote, entitlements or some other popular falsehood, then you have a God-complex. That makes you the dangerous person.
Remember, Nanny State = Warfare + Welfare . Both are to be avoided. Stop the nonsense before the disease gets too entrenched.
They're on the march again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAqLNznfJM4
Here I thought I was going to read an inteligent discourse and reasoned explaination of both sides, when in reality.....
It was just another anti-gun, anti-self defence, anti-freedom, anti-constitution and bill of rights, anti-human rights presentation by those who want to enslave us, so they can protect us crowd.
They all agree that we would be so much easier to manage if we would simply give up those notions of self determination and freedom, and simply let them rule us from cradle to grave. I'd be nice it we'd let them bar-code our upper extremities too!
The real problem for this crowd is that they just can't figure out how far they can go and how fast, without starting a revolution and civil war. I got a feeling they're going to find out one of these days because everyone now realizes that law enforcement likes their pay checks and perks and the rest of government is only interested in power, control and their personal wealth, not the people. The people are viewed as an exploitable asset.
In an uncertain world, guns and ammunition are like money.
You can never have too much, and the more uncertain things become, the more that is needed.
The Second Amendment is not the point.
The only reason to disarm people is if you intend to do things with them that they would resist with arms.
THAT IS THE POINT.
That is also why the Second Amendment exists, not to GIVE people the right to bear arms, but as a warning flare when crossed that slavery, mass murder, and genocide are coming.
State and federal gun control. The feds hold the trump card and the States benefit under their police powers by following suit. All this discussion is off point bullshit and the feds know it. NO PERSON in the US can own a firearm period. Tell that to the NRA or mainstream and they will consider you insane. Of course you own your guns. You bought and paid for them did you not? Yes but irrelevent. The issue is now and always has been PROPERTY, not the second amendment.
Fundamental rights are meaningless without the correct form of process to protect those rights from unreasonable government interference. In order to reach those processes one must have STANDING. As you read this, try to think like a scumbag government lawyer hell bent on manipulating the process. There are certain taxable activities involving the creation, possession, and movement of firearms that do NOT enjoy second amendment protections. This according to the USSC. For purpose of due process, HOW do you make the citizens look like them before the courts? Simple. Create an ACT that extends those extra ordinary regulatory and taxing powers beyond their proper scope. And then watch the courts run like hell under the doctrine of separation of powers.
Look, Manufactureres and dealers are engaged in a taxable business/occupational privilege that agffects the health, saftey, and second amendment rights of the public. The gun is created and then it is transfered to the dealer. Federal taxing power primary, federal commerce powers applying summary control of the property as it moves in commerce to insure the excise is collected at every step. State police powers applied to regulation of the business itself. THEN, comes the purchase by the citizen. NO, wrong. The federal gun control Acts require background checks before the firearm can be TRANSFEFERD. Wait a minute. Transfer is an administrative term under Federal taxing and Commerce powers associated with a taxable privilege outside the protections of the SA. The firearm is TRANFERED between manu. and dealer and if the terms of the privilege are violated or the tax is not paid, the PROPERTY is subject to SUMMARY SIEZURE AND FORFITURE LAWS. Rights of property are irrelevent and the courts are estopped from interfereing with those POLITICAL POWERS. Now the law requires the PROPERTY to be RE TRANSFERED from Dealer to YOU under the exact same summary administrative powers as if between manu and dealer. The fact that YOU are not required to be licensed as a condition precedent to transfer is irrelevent. The political nature of the powers being extended upon the citizenry itself does NOT change in the eyes of the courts. It matters not WHO is involved in the chain of transfer. THE LAW and thus the nature of the powers are enforced equally upon all who would fall within its scope.
So the PROPERTY and its protections have been PRE EMPTED at the federal level and now the States police powers are being applied out of context for the purposes of regulation. Remove the question of PROPERTY from the jurisdiction of the courts and what is left is summary political question control over mere possession and movement as it affects commerce. So when the feds come for your guns in a summary manner and the courts refuse to intervene, this is why. Am I the only one that sees the massive hole blown in the Due Process Clause???
Damn F you make Mongo's head hurt! Read your whole post, nice, but .......envision.....vacant parking lot.... 2 cars...... 1 trunk opens.....1 trunk closes.... transaction complete! Makes much sense to Mongo!
As a gun owner, I'd say that this article sums up the problems quite well. I would have deducted the deaths caused by the police state, as they don't really belong in any statistic presented here. That would reduce the rates greatly and put the USA down to a level that is consistant with most all other nations on the Homicide Rate Among OECD Nations chart.
Also, it appears that the major cause is violent criminals, aka repeat offenders and gang related, that get their guns on the black market. This article is more an indictment of the system, not gun owners. Taking away our guns will not end gun violence, it will leave us more prone to become victims of gun crime. Fix the problem, not the symptom.
As for the Sandy Hook, there are too many holes in that story. I'm not saying it was a false flag, I'm just saying there are too many holes in the official story, and I would like to see those holes filled before I decide on my conclusion.
We would have so little crime, if we had control over the black population.
http://www.abatethehate.com/
Look how many murders and shootings were in Chicago during 4th of July weekend. Guns are basically banned in the city. It's clear that places that ban guns or have strict anti-gun policy only means that the only people that will have the guns are the bad guys. Bad guys don't give a damn about laws. So essentially the only people that are disarmed in that situation are the law-abiding, and they get fucked over by the guys who don't care about laws.
I used to live in that city, in a nice neighborhood by the zoo. I was stunned to hear by one of my co-workers that there had been a shooting a couple of blocks north of where I lived. Isn't that why most people want to live in a nice area? Less crime, right? That's not necessarily true of places that are anti-gun.
Obama is not legislating against the criminals and psychos who need to be controlled with “gun control” and “gun violence” legislation. Instead barry wants to take away the gun rights of those who uphold the law and are terrorized by the criminals and psychos. Then Obama will have his big government totalitarian state that enforces its will on its citizens. With our guns gone Washington will no longer fear the American people…
Murdering children will cause public opinion to favor stronger gun control. The most prominent recent case like Connecticut was in Scotland where the Dunblane school massacre took place. The GB liberal media started a public petition drive over Dunblane that effectively made private ownership of handguns illegal in the United Kingdom in 1997.
But as the British discovered banning hand guns does not solve the problem of crazed shooters and violent criminals. The next big UK massacre was the Cumbria shootings. It was a killing spree that occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England. The shooter switched to rifles and shotguns when hand guns were not longer available.
Since 1973 the government and the press have hardly even mentioned a word about the 57,000,000 children killed in America with a scalpel in the womb? No one seems to care about these murders or ask to ban the scalpel. Two of my grand children are included in these murders.
How can we ever expect an end to gun violence in a society that encourages mothers to kill their own children?
Kids today no longer have the fear of god placed in them they way prior generations have. Many American children have no religion or they do not find spirituality while they growing up. With god out of their lives many kids are no longer are taught about the sanctity of human life. Instead kids are given video games and movies filled killing and violence which have become the new norm. Yet I hear not a word from the Democrats about giving the future Adam Lanza’s the mental health they really need. All I hear from the Democrats is they are going to take away the gun I use to protect myself from the Adam Lanza’s.
FUCK YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO CONSIDERS THIS "THE GOOD":
double post
When it comes to gun control with Obama it is not about guns it is about control. Obama wants a big government model like the European model where people are wards of the big government and government is in total control.
Once the 2014 elections are over Obama is going to go on his final rampage against guns in America. Starting in 2015 Obama will scream out in speech after speech using hand-picked gun “tragedies” that guns must be driven out of America.
We all read the articles in ZH about the perils of the global debt crisis bubble in the world. Now take this bubble popping to the worst case. What could a worst case global debt crisis bubble pop look like…Hmmmm.
One scenario might be when this bubble pops the central banks will no long be able to print money because fiat money dies. With no money there is no EBT for the poor to buy food, so the poor will come looking for food. How will you stop the poor when they come demanding food at your doorstep? I for one will not have a lollipop in my hand.
And don’t tell me these thoughts have not crossed your mind…
This so called study FAILS to show something that is Paramount: Gun violence and Violence in general on States with No Restrictions on Guns Laws is LOWER then Rural Europe or almost non-Existent.
The ONLY problem is the States that Are ANTI-Constitutional like : California, Detroit and NY were Gun crime is Trought the roof making the entire USA look bad on the Statistics relative only to some countries.
Also another FALSE conclusion is that Countries with less guns are safer: WRONG: the More ARMED are the populations the LESS violence there is: Example: Switzerland ... Lowest of all and Norway for example.
Also on the graph look at Mexico, Chile and all others ... themore resctritive Gun Laws = MORE Violence.
So the only Conclusion possible on those Bad Collectivists statistics is the author was not able to Figure out the States/Countries with more Gun Violence are the ones with LESS guns and Guns Laws that are anti-Constitutional.
Nice.
And nice avatar.
You forgot Japan dude.
Another attempted Sith Mind Trick.
The author calls his article "objective". He lies.
The more guns the better. Why? Because far and away the greatest destruction of human life is carried out by government thugs. In the last century alone, the number of humans killed by government exceeds private murders by many orders of magnitude.
And what is the only way to limit government murder? That's right... guns in the hands of regular people.
Author: You are an overt apologist for gun control and confiscation. You are also an overt advocate of mass murder... as long as those murders are carried out by predators paid by some government or other.
I call fraud on this author and this article.
Eliminate all government on planet earth, and watch the total number of murders fall like a rock.
The white American crime rate compares favorably with that of any majority white European country.
Compare the blacks' and mexicans' crime rates to those in any majority black/brown country and they likewise are about as bad.
Violent crime is mostly a black/brown phenomenom.
Of course, our white bankers are no slouches when it comes to white collar crime.
Many people don't seem to realize that there is marked diference (in terms of firearm ownership) between civilized people and uncivilized people. Uncivilized people tend to commit crimes with firearms; civilized people use firearms for protection.
All one has to do is to examine two major pieces of evidence: black males commit 50% of the homicides in the US (almost all with firearms), and the homicide rate, outside of cities, decreases from the southern border to te northen border. The rate in North Dakota, Wyoming, and Montana is extraordinarily low.
In uncivilized areas, (e.g., virtually all Arab countries), the presence of firearms implies criminal activity. Some folks decry the homicide rate in the US, but the rate is much, much lower than the homicide rate in Russia, and if the homicides that occur between drug gangs in cities were neglected, the US rate would be extraordinarily low. The War on Drugs seriously stimulates crime.