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Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?
While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.
Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.
Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.
So perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?
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ATC (Eurocontrol) will also have audio recordings as well as detailed info on each radar hit which usually occurs about every eight seconds.
Hard drive failure @ Eurocontrol in 5...4...3....2.....
Too many cookie crumbs in the ATC hard drive....and the crumbs lead to Noodlegurl.
excellent work john ! usa war machine trying to engage.
questionable evidence shows trolls at work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM
I will transmit this information to Vladimir.
I heard that the plane came down in an area controlled by pro-Russian forces, and that they were going to send the black box to Moscow.
Putting all the disparate conspiracy pieces together (gathered from other ZH threads) I fully expect to hear Putin proclaim that this plane was really MH-370 in disguise, based on the flight recorder. Wouldn't that be a hoot?
That kind of information would be too dangerous even for Putin. That would be WW3...USA vs Everyone
He will just leak it via Captain Obvious Edwardo Snowden...then the USA can spend energies ddosing and censoring its own social networks.
It definitely didn't look like much of a plane when the Babushkas showed up with their smart phones.
maybe the pilot was trying to avert flying through bad weather?
Turbulence is a bitch. Scares passengers.
Maybe the pilot really did have some bombs to drop? There were a bunch of people from the Netherlands on board.
I bet they were paying in Dutch Gilders too.
http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Donetsk+RSXX2769:1:RS
Couldn't help but noticing weather.com's prediction: Donetsk, Russia
There's a Donetsk in Russia as well. Not that far across the Russian border, at that. The Russian Donetsk isn't very big though.
Most people don't know that the cold war originated from a comment that the russian donetsk isn't very big.
It is still Top Secret what "To go cold on the Sparrow" really means, but there are a couple of old madames who could tell you.
pods
while u are here let me tell you about the negro donetsk
(how could i not? seriously how could i not?)
Donetsk, don't tell?? That is the new gay policy of the Ukies.
Subtle. Nice.
lets not forget dunkink donetsk
This from the horses mouth.
http://www.goes.noaa.gov/FULLDISK/GMIR.JPG
Ukraine looks like it has a shitload of Moisture over it.
How does on say Polar Vortex in Russian?
a war zone where planes had recently been shot down is sort of like 'bad weather'...you go away from it, not into it.
And now we know why Putin Grabbed that black box ASAP...flight recording data is going to prove if the pilots were ordered onto a specific course by military jets belonging to Ukraine. Now that is going to be very problematic when Russia releases these tapes since the drums immediately were beating instantly that this was either Russia (Which we all knew it was not) or seperatists armed by Russia.
I supposed the geniuses should have thought a move ahead and had a team nearby prepared to scoop up the black boxes before Putin. I wonder how long he will hold onto the tape and wait for the Ukraine and its backers to dig a whole of blame that falls solely on Russia before releasing them.
That would pop me a wheelee
Or even a postie actually.
John look up BUAP ( kudos to satoshi ). Dov Zakhiem specialty.
These passports have an eerie similaritiy to the unburned passport 'found' in the debris of the WTC. All unburned, and looking brand new, no dirt, or signs of use. Like they've been collected from a bag. Could be pure coincidence, but is another mystery in the riddle shrouded in the enigma that is contemporary headfake-falseflagerism.
If this is such an event (or part thereof), the identies of those on the passenger manifest of a flight that is reported to have been cancelled (screenshot from FlightRada24 here: http://jimstonefreelance.com/ ), will be of much interest in the following days. Expect outpourings of unbridled grief to out-grieve the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza. Such timing! Reportedly 24 Australians aboard, presumably carrying Australian passports, in no way like those that were very useful in the assassination of Hamas leader Mahmoud Al Mabhouh in Dubai in 2010. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-02-26/mossad-factory-churned-out-fake-au...
Warning, this clip also shows graphic images of the crash site/passengers. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ea9_1405620477
TBC
omniversling
Yup.
"headfake-falseflagerism"
that's freaking beautiful wordsmithery!
We do NOT know if Russia was involved. Possible accident, possible world political gains. If you believe the ones that control Russia would not want to keep that power just like in the west you are sadly mistaken. Be careful until you begin to build a picture that might never be complete. Pray for the victims and families, they will need it.
There is no bad weather at 32,000 feet....
that possibility occurred to me after i posted it.
Except that possibility is an impossibility...
From an Aviator blog about Thunderstorms with actual Airliner Pilots commenting...
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/152684/
Highest I've ever actually seen was on the Gulf coast, near Mobile - Biloxi a few years back. Must have been fifty miles of red and purple returns and tops reported at seventy two thousand feet.
Be careful about ones whom spread doubt without evidence as they tend to use your ignorance to promote an agenda.
Cold is bad weather.
Only for the US economy, exempting the rich, of course.
So is a smoldering warhead...
"There is no bad weather at 32,000 feet...."
While I'm not saying it was bad weather, there can be, and often is, bad weather at 32,000. Garden variety thunderstorms in the US extend to 45,000 ft. while severe thunderstorms often reach 60,000 ft. So, yeah, weather IS a possibility. I fly corporate jets and frequently deviate around such weather systems.
I've heard that ice can be upwardly ejected from internal cloud dynamics like a shotgun blast. This frozen ejecta blasts hundreds and hundred of feet from the top of cumulonimbus clouds, so it's not safe to even fly 'over' the cloud ceiling in many cases. But what the hell do I know, I just attract ball lightning wherever I go.
Could have been swallows carrying coconuts.
Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?
"There is no bad weather at 32,000 feet...."
Sorry to disappoint you, but, no that is not true. That far north most weather stops in the mid 30s (the Trop is down to the high 30s). But, no, FL32 is right in the tops at that latitude.
Tops can go to 60,000 feet at that latitude very easy. Look at what happens every Spring and Summer in the Midwest and Southeast.
Ukraine is the Breadbasket, like the US Midwest, and has similar weather of that area.
(Not this year. The fields were left fallow because of the war. There will be a severe Wheat Shortage and possibly Famine as a result. Long Wheat Futures...)
Nah, not the old "Lusitania gambit" ? Couldn't be....not a chance.
All we need now is a Zimmermann telegram.
Die has been cast. The Matrix has sucked this one up and Vlad is the cause. I spent as much time today in the Matrix as I could, and they swallowed the hook on this.
pods
I sent a group text out to a bunch of people with the zh link to the breaking news. one out of about 10 people wrote back and he wrote "big whoop".
Makes you wonder why they bother staging these things at all, when most the country doesn't give a shit anyway.
You could cause more panic stateside by blowing up a cable switching station during primetime, or DNS attacking Netflix.
Hell, the Twinkie Incident probably affected more 'mericans than any of these elaborate plans.
If the people who really run this country knew how little of a shit that most people in this country give they would cry.
pods
Not the Twinkies!!
“Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society.”
-Aristotle
Probably more for entertainment amongst themselves...
As well as for the (black) 'spiritual' connections...
....the Twinkie Incident...
Lulz
If the people who really run this country knew how little of a shit that most people in this country give they would cry.
pods
What do you mean cry???
They are laughing all the way to the bank. That is the cause d'celebrare. They are overjoyed over that fact as it is how they get away with their nefarious deeds with impunity.
Im always a little leary about flying. But lots of deadbeats just think its safe and sound.
Probability is for pussies.
And Coffee is for closers.
...on a long enough timeline...
"They don't call it the control room for nothing." No physical instructions need be made. "Just enter it into the computer" and no one is the wiser for it. That could include the launch of the missile as well.
"All perfectly timed to launch a full scale invasion of Gaza."
To which I say "so what?" It's not like we all don't know what's going on in Gaza. We would indeed have a striking bit of honesty if the "nerdy folks" we're able to come clean about all these things.
I know of only one actually...and he's in Moscow yet "no one of importance has claimed to even have met the guy." Maybe Snowden should start a Kung Fu training academy at the airport.
Who directed the polish president to land through fog in a forest?...
man, that is one intriguing notion.
man, that is one intriguing notion.
I'll bite.
Was it the same person who instructed the "rescue team" to spray the survivors with hot lead?
Betcha.
So will the Russians share the data in the black box? Audio recordings of how the plane deviated should be very interesting
Depends what's on it, I guess.
Even if it changed course, even if Kiev air traffic told it which heading to take, there was never any good reason to target it all.
They just needed a reason.
Didn't need to be a good one.
False flag, anyone?
Yes, of course it was a false flag..
Everyone agrees
This is interesting....
Anybody hear about the Ukrainians leaving out a couple of lightly unguarded Buk launching systems for the rebels two weeks ago?
And who exactly trained them to use it?
"Two weeks ago, pro-Russian fighters from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) boasted that they had captured Buk missiles and launchers when they overran a Ukrainian army garrison on June 29. The DPR posted a Twitter picture at the time of the vehicle-mounted missile system, but last night deleted the picture and denied they possessed such a weapon."
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/17/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-pa...
Makes sense. So the NSA scrambles up some communications, telling the rebels it's a gov bomber.
But they still would need operators...
"BUK units require technicians to work them, who typically need several months of training. However, Mr Richardson said it was possible that rebels who had done military service would know how to work them."
Things getting foggier and foggier... best to check out who is short a missile...
And WHY exactly would the Ukrainians bring missile launchers to a fight where the rebels clearly have NO aircraft?
When was the last time any state ran single armouries? You disperse your military assets over a larger area so they won't be destroyed in a few careful strikes.
The rebels ganked a SU-25 from the Ukies. So they do have aircraft.
I am really unclear on what there is to investigate. Everybody there had a S-300 system. The rebels acknowledge that they took some from the Ukies so even if they recovered a SN off the missle it would still be Ukie (assuming that Russians didn't fire it and that is VERY improbable). If the Ukies shot it they would say that was one of the ones that were taken. We would then be back to finger pointing.
I think the golden moment is the demand for the cease fire to investigate. The Ukies are on their heels and NEED that time very badly to regroup.
This link is still up:
ZIP: clear sky above Donetsk - DND special forces captured the garrison missile air defense forces
Based on a lot of other evidence though, it's looking less likely that the militia shot it down, even though they shot down a Ukie plane in the same area (Thorez) a little earlier. For example, a poster at Saker's site who works in the area said the BUK's they captured were not operational.
Gulf of Tonkin incident
MH 370 a dryrun for MH 17? one and same aircraft/passengers(bodies)? blackwater smarter than 99.9 earthly inhabitants - except putin and his cossacks.
Possible....
but then, were there ever two planes called 9M-MRD and 9M-MRO?
Probably were... So where is the other one?
And then where, right now, are 9M-MRI (which was stored in a hangar in Tel Aviv) and 9M-MRK (which was stored in an airport in Orlando)?
What gets to me is that mainstream journalists are so braindead that they haven't even started to look at these basic questions. It's frustrating how these journalists are getting paid to rehash press releases. Shame on them.
does any media fall within .001? blackwater runs diego garcia , malaysia, barry, mccain, JP Morgan, Fox and could go on ad infin...
The NWO isn't going to be a warrior state, Blackwater are highly expendable technicians of others.
Laggardes ouiji board is a bitch . Bitchez
I do believe there was NATO trickery involved here.
Nice move!
Now let's turn off the gas.
BUAP - Boeing Uninteruptable Auto Pilot. Just like the last one.
Well then theres nothing in the box after all...and perhaps Boeing can describe some arcs two thousand miles away were the plane could be presumed to be as well.
Don't forget the Rolls Royce Trent engines and their signalling capability
Nothing on the black box due to BUAP? Not necessarily. They never found the black box for the last one ... because they're looking all the way to Antartica when they should have been checking the hangars on Diego Garcia.
all commercial aircraft are weapons now.
I guess the anomalous occurrences should start to be unveiled. I'm sure this is the first of many revelations that led to this probably avoidable "event".
TWA-800 went down on this day the same way. eerie. our radar detectors picked this missle up, but missed the one 50ft off the coast of LI.
Nice work fonz.
Good points. Just ask Moscow to return us the black box.
We will know as soon as they recover the Black Box. Its under Building No 7.
BLACK BOXES? Vlad respectfully, speaking for all intelligent life on Zero Hedge. Suck it up and don't lie.
The spoils of war get ugly, and the explanations are legendary...
So maybe Langley involved after all but on a more sneakier way than suspected at first glance?
It was trumpeted by Langley that MH370 would turn up somewhere. Maybe now it has. This is like a 3 cup switch (or even 4 cups), with the plant in the audience distracting the punters.
Smells to high heaven.
Give it a couple days and will be completely rancid.
BTW, Diego Garcia called and they want their plane back.
'I'd be completely surprised if the US/Israel was involved...' Things nobody has ever said.
www.TopTheNews.com
"Goodness gracious great balls of fire!" KAL 007 redux. Moscovites kill more civilians in 5 minutes today, than thousands of Israeli air and artillery strikes after 10 days of hundreds of missile attacks on Israel.
That's the good zino-boy. Spin that spin. But don't forget, your very own Vicky Knoodleman / Kagan and her $5B got the ball rolling on this particular blood bath.
Pssst. You're not supposed to be drawing attention to Gaza today while the spot light shifts elsewhere. You are gonna get canned if you keep f'n up.
MI6 "SKY FALL"
The James Bond title was NO accident.
00777777
How many more clues does a person need?
Trivia question,; who was the original James Bond (hint, he's been dead over 500 years)?
Caligula?
This isn't about a plane being shot down. It's about recognition.
Serfs fighting for independence... Sound familiar Bitchez?
LOL, busted.
Fuckin' morons can't start a fucking fistfight.
Jesus these assholes can't even pull a basic caper without fucking it up. Cue the green screens, Robbie Parker and Hey! I think Gene Rosen was there!
It helps that so many of us disbelieve anything the GOP says that there is nothing they can do without getting blamed for it.
Bad as that sounds, its definatly become a good thing.
The US ain't gonna do nothing no matter what happens in the region. Putzin is safe for now.
Flight 17's shootdown split the news coverage, giving Israel the go-ahead to invade Gaza. By the way, has anyone noticed the really cheap coverage FOX news is giving of this shootdown, continuing to just have its talking heads blather on with their New World Order scripted comments? I just saw someone named Brooke Goldstein telling Megyn Kelly that Hamas was responsible for Gaza civilian deaths because Hamas uses civilians as human shields. Like those kids playing on a beach before they became target practice for the Israeli Navy. If there is a Goebbels Award for the Big Lie, Goldstein gets it.
my old man watches Fox News and he thought that the 4 kids on the beach were probably killed by Hamas to make Israel look bad. He dismisses most of what I say or think as "conspiracy theory" because he doesn't read about it or hear about it in the mainstream press :(
Your Dad knows you better than you know yourself.
What if told you the deaths on the beach and the plane crash were gasp staged by the same people
So. A rich little man with white hair died. What has that got to do with the price of rice, right? And *why* is that woe to us? Because you people, and sixty-two million other Americans, are listening to me right now. Because less than three percent of you people read books! Because less than fifteen percent of you read newspapers! Because the only truth you know is what you get over this tube. Right now, there is a whole, an entire generation that never knew anything that didn't come out of this tube! This tube is the Gospel, the ultimate revelation. This tube can make or break presidents, popes, prime ministers... This tube is the most awesome God-damned force in the whole godless world, and woe is us if it ever falls in to the hands of the wrong people, and that's why woe is us that Edward George Ruddy died. Because this company is now in the hands of CCA - the Communication Corporation of America. There's a new Chairman of the Board, a man called Frank Hackett, sitting in Mr. Ruddy's office on the twentieth floor. And when the twelfth largest company in the world controls the most awesome God-damned propoganda force in the whole godless world, who knows what shit will be peddled for truth on this network?
Goebbels fought these forces and educated the Germans about the practices of these forces, sheeple.
Offspring of a diseased sow I presume?
I saw Bolton interviewed on faux, almost thru up.
(TV on wall at The gym, Sound off thank goodness.)
A marxists fucknob was paid to divert flight. US Obama Ass Clown comes on TV to undermine the tragedy and begins talking about building bridges, high speed trains..of course, new radar aviation to suck the wallets.
Impeach this motherfucker. We were born at night, just not last night
In all honesty Atomizer.
I think either protocol wasn't changed, or over looked. An airline has a flagship(777-300) disappear (3) months earlier, then another blow-up over Ukraine?
So, I wanna know, if you have 4 planes 9M-MRO, 9M-MRD, 9M-MRI, and 9M-MRK, then if one supposedly disappears, one supposedly crashes, one supposedly is in Tel aviv and the fourth one is supposedly in Orlando, then how many are left now given that this whole fuckin mess stinks to high heaven?
@ Cacete de Ouro Reeks of http://www.lloyds.com/
Looks like Malaysian Air is now the Ensign Ricky of airlines
Donask
The Lusitania comes to mind.
Eurocontrol will also take it in the shorts for this one. Having a ceiling of 32,000 feet for the restricted area was an epic fail.
Ya but if they did otherwise, they wouldn't leave the door open for the False Flag.
Tomorrow Never Dies
Keep your eyes peeled for false flags, they're coming fast 'n' furious these days.
Just wait till Israel detonates a nuke in Manhattan and blames the Arabs to get more more Americas to fight and die in their for them. That's what 9/11 was about in part.
Well you'll know about it because a whole bunch of people of similar ilk will be leaving town at pretty much the same time.
I SAW ON AN ALJAZEERA RPEORT THA THE PLANE WENT NORTH TO AVOID WEATHER.
I think it is just a fucked up accident.
Right. Just ask any commercial pilot how much 'weather' he sees at 33,000 ft.
You'll get the same answer from all of them.
Turbulence maybe, weather..... not so much.
http://www.pilotoutlook.com/aviation_weather/high_altitude_weather
Thunderstorms typically go to 40,000 feet. 60,000 is not unheard of. The aircraft may have been avoiding turbulence or taking advantage of favorable winds.
It will be interesting to see, if the ZOGs will demand an examination from their friendly Ukrainian government, about that Russian argumentation...
Hilary Clinton explains what Europe should do in the wake of this "terrorist" "event":
http://youtu.be/nkTRJgDkNFg?t=1m35s
C'mon Europe. Get with the program. The US needs you to screw yourselves for their greater good.
Cui bono?
The USA will continue killing people in improbable movie plots unless you destroy yourself economically.
(transl.)
It was not a Solar Flare that caused their GPS error.
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/07/17/the-sun-has-gone-quietsolar-cycle...
Maybe it iwas just a bad time to fall asleep at the wheel.
Anyone know about these tweets from a Spanish air traffic controller in Kiev? He says it was Kiev that attacked the 777, and he mentions the Ukraine military ready to take out the Kiev government a few days ago.
I would like more info on this, but it's an interesting bit of information anyway:
http://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-...
See for yourself: https://twitter.com/spainbuca
@spainbuca and its Google translation is up again.
Not for me. I'm still getting "That page doesn't exist!" from Twitter.
NSA, I hate you.
dont those fools over there do something like our NOTAMs?
WSJ said it was restricted airspace below 32,000
I'm simply presenting alternate scenarios. All off you elloquent Z/Her's are taken into account.
Don't be flys on the wall. You don't need to be literate.
Buzz taught me that. ;-)
Not only that, why is it Malayasian Airlines (again)?
I mean, with this and 9/11 (AA/United) and all, there is a potential for folks to make a TON of money here with prior knowledge.
Where is the vapor trail, exhaust plume and explosion smoke from the missile? In these BUK videos, there's a huge trail, un mistakeable. all we really have seen is an on-ground explosion. where's the smoke from the falling plane as well ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPtDy18Nk5I
Easily a diversion to the north could have been weather related, happens everyday in the world.
From Wikipedia:
So a BUK system is not an autonomous system but it needs a command structure and target recognition vehicle! This means a highly trained crew. This is NOT a weapon system for rebels!
As I posted above, the Russians say, that Ukraine has Buk systems.
And this gets even more weight, since the Ukrainian government itself claimed that the rebels had shot down the plane, NOT Russia. But the Russian army operating that system and shooting down the plane - that would be theoretically possible. But the claim that rebels used this system is highly questionable.
So I guess it was a Ukrainian Buk system. If I am correct, we will see total disinterest from USrael + NATO regarding Ukrainian infos about the BUK systems in the area... Just like their disinterest who shot at both sides on Maidan...
My money says the plane was BOMBED, not shot down.
The hell hounds that have been attacking Malaysia over it's refusal to give up the Straits of Malacca (among other issues) would not trust this kind of mass murder to 3rd party missiles.
Yes
Isn't that interesting
Gaz production in the Straits of Malacca
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/business/energi-mega-kicks-commercial-gas...
Hmm...
I'm having a bit of trouble visiting zerohedge tonight. All other sites are no problem but zerohedge is different, it won't load properly and I've been denied access.
Hmm...
It seems strange...