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Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?
While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.
Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.
Why is the diversion from the traditional flight path and passage over the highlighted zone a concern? Because as the following map from the WSJ shows this is precisely where the restricted airspace is.
So perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?
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Same here...css not loading on some refreshes...some avatars not loading...unusual.
Many are experiencing the issue. Mustn't have the knowledgeable plebes crowd sourcing info...
Good
I am not alone...
I only was able to access the site via zerohedge.org (found a notice visiting the original blog site to use that). I understand today is a heavy news day but from what I've seen over the past year or two, ZH servers should be able to handle that.
DDOS.
I've been having quite a bit of trouble for a couple of hours. Maybe a denial of service attack?
Ditto for me last night (UK time).
Also, this morning at 8:45am UK time ZH went down for about 40mins and has just come back up.
I also noticed flightradar24.com was down this morning.
Sum ting vely wong.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ce8_1405649759
Interesting
First I wan't to say this is a serious response. Do you think that the same people that bought the birth certificate forgery would give a flip about incoherent time stamps?
Interesting indeed.
I think all of the tinfoil hats commenting at once are causing the technical difficulties.
It's a good question really, how in hell did this plane get sent over an active aircombat zone with known anti aircraft missile strikes and fighters airborne every day? Only madness can account for that flight pattern. Who could have signed off on this?
As for the shoot down. It could be either side, as even the rebels hold at least on BUK system, though a captured one and it is not know if it wsa operational. The Ukies got several BUKS deployed into this area along with the offensive of the last two weeks. Many pictures and videos exist of both sides systems.
There is an out side the box claim that two or one Ukrainian SU aircraft were in the air near this flight. Also, the Self Defense Forces have used only the MANPAD systems to shoot down UKIE aircraft. If the BUK was fired by them, it ws their first ever launch.
Lets be clear, both Russia and the USA know what happened. They have to. Their intelligence and orbital systems saw it all. Neither side acts like they know, in this they both are liars. They have to know, in 2014 orbital systems in broad daylight on a sunny day, over a war zone, who dares say that the USA and Russian militaries do not know?
I don't know jake. Do we know it was sunny? Satellites can view small areas in high-res, but I'm not aware of the ability to simultaneously and continuously monitor a whole (or half) a country.
I don't disagree, but I want our position to be unassailable.
Both countries have highly efficient radar systems that can track and record all flights and any missile launches. The cultural differences and stategies between the countries is likely at work here. The US is highly reactive, often shooting before thinking, whilst the Russians are more considered and will thoroughly analyse thier radar recordings and the plane's black box info before speaking up. So I am not surprised that the Russians are being fairly quiet about this. But the Americans might well already know and are keeping quiet (about the truth, though very loud about the blame) in order to take advantage of as much of the initial propaganda against Russia as possible before the truth comes out. It's like the Syrian poison gas issue - once the lie is pushed out theere and people grab hold of it, it makes little difference once the real truth cones out later - by then it's too late.
Knowing it was a missile tells us little. We need who and motive.
The rebels have BUKs?
Source?
One captured BUK from Ukies taken in battle. It has no radar system with it, so might not even be operational. Source. The rebel websites, there are videos of their captured BUK, they were proud of having taken it in battle. I
Want to know who shot this plane down?
Ask who had the power to divert the plane's flight path and altitude -- and you will have your answer
C'mon over baby- I have a date with you.
SMACCK
As it's handlers said earlier to MH 370 and now to MH17
When I was a teenager we used to make multistage rockets. We put one solid stage booster on top of the other so when the first one went out the second one lit. Its a long stretch of the imagination but WHAT IF THEY, "MANPAD BADGUYS" figured that shit out and they taped one manpad to another with duck tape technology? Holy shit head for the bunkers!!!
Yeah, anything worth having that we can depend on has duct tape and wire from cut up coat hangers.
ZH under Attack. Not surprised.
Interesting Photos of crash site here- and Captions.
Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over UkraineCui Bono? Who benefits? NWO
i normally like zero hedge's take on things but on this one ZH is like the FOX NEWS of mother russia.... seperatiests stole a surface to air missile launcher, accidentally shoot down a passanger plane and then try cover it up......
Is Zero Hedge a Putin Asset?
http://28sherman.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/is-zero-hedge-putin-asset.html?...
Perhaps they are simply trying to add some balance to the overwheling propaganda flood of the West and Ukraine pointing the finger at the rebels. You see, no one REALLY knows at this point what happened and who did it and why. But the questions that ZH raises are valid questions. Aside from ZH's motives, what is it about the content of the articles that you find wrong?
i'm sorry but we know that usa is so unskilled on the ground that now with less money they pay arabs groups to mess around their targets in syria, in irak, they give money to israel againt palestinian ppl, & they react like mentals to ukrain, forcing nazis to get control of country to destabilize russia at borders.
the lack of tactical skills of usa is going to put serious shit on the table. i not believe in any god but i swear on my own head i prey for usa not to be responsible of this plane shoot cause if evidences pop that it was another ukrain/cia coup to try to mess with poutine, this is potentially the trigger of a next stage in the war. i think when ppl talk to war they understand the word but not realize the meaning of the daily living.
+ usa is far away, for european countries the insecure feeling growing tend to become a lil paranoid & some pop/burst everywhere, this go badly, & force poutine to stay clean hand in the ground but accelerate brics to get hits own economic alternatives, this can become a loops, actually it is looping. more sanction against russia, more speed to build brics, etc...
i think that about meadows, exponentials, we are now passed from the lil stable eye-flat line to the curve and we are sit almost like astronauts with belt the back on the ground & the knees facing the head looking the sky.
if things not seriously calm down we gonna crack the system before 2015.
have you seen gold jump/correction/rigging since 14 july ? become unstable. global feeling is no more stable neither, the trust is collapsing, banking system is based on trust on dept. this is really bad.
"You see, no one REALLY knows at this point what happened and who did it and why".
Boom. The propaganda blitz from both sides from the beginning make it nearly impossible to accurately judge this conflict. Much less this tragedy. And the Hedge has raised some valid questions and not so valid questions as well. But when you read through the threads you clearly see a pattern. Some have chosen to believe one sides propaganda, alone. They may even be right but it's been my experience real world situations don't have clear villains and heroes.
That is one possibility. So is an intentional attack by Ukraine ( read NWO) to blame Russia. We need more evidence. Who's got the black box? Everyone gains here except Russia has more to loose, so they would not. Malaysia loose again as more punishment for trying to persecute the us government for 9/11.
Video reportedly of MH17 falling from the sky.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aad_1405654499
would be another plane. time is wrong.
thanks for the video though.
Was there a Queen onboard?
I'm convinced that the Western retarded inbred fruitcake oligarchs are forcing their wills according to a timetable that is much too fast. The TV shows and movies are now merged with English producers. Obama has commanded the removal of the US Southern border with Mexico. The central banks have merged all western nations taxing and financial matters. The UN has command of the US military. The Arabian "Queens" (that took down the World Trade Centers with the help of Rumsfeld and Cheney) have created the Caliphate as partners against Russia and China. The Western Oil Queens are about to force their will on Russia and China.
YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaa. Its time for toast.
Long live the trannies
I really do not even know what to say anymore and that is enough said to say enough.
I may be mistaken but I have a suspicion that the "rebel" Ukranians were baited by the Kiev regime into knocking the plane out of the sky thinking that it is a Ukranian military plane.
Political fallout to then follow for Putin and the rebel Russians.
There was a drone, US that was shot down, it had a civilian plane's footprint.
Diversion is the name of the game. Now with the plane being shot down & Israel in full swing, we are no longer bitching about the thousands of illegals invading the US with contagious diseases & criminals. Before the illegals took center stage the outrage of the week was the US Govt. intentionally killing Veterans to get bigger bonuses. Before the V.A. scandal, the outrage of the week was the corrupt IRS & targeting Conservative groups. Before the IRS scandal, the outrage of the week was the NSA spying scandal. I go could on & on, but the bottom line is we are all being distracted from the truth that our country is being stolen from us in broad daylight without a whimper from the American people.
yeah. that's it. multiple countries are involved, shooting down planes, killing hundreds of innocent people. Ukraine is in Civil war and Israel and Hamas are at war, Malaysia and their airlines are targeted, all to 'distract from the truth that the US is being stolen'. riiiight.
Hey you know what? Sometimes it isn't about the US. go figure.
Some asshat I met in a bar outside DC(2-3 weeks ago) claimed to have closed a contract, with the UN, to kill 60 bad guys in the following 30 days,(well really about 6 months as he put it eventually) and when I saw him tonight I did ask him, and not surprisingly he claimed some credit[because that's what these fuckers(lower case) tend to do], in my opinion wholly for the purpose of ensuring the general public(that they happpen to meet at a bar) will believe what they are told.
The name on his credit card was Richard Higgins.... for those can't find me any other way...........................................
Whatever, as I put it to him this evening...."He is surely the most dangerous SALESMAN on the face of the planet"
Lots of these clowns 'round here.
God Bless America?
------
https://twitter.com/VagelisKarmiros/status/489926167731142656/photo/1
2:14 AM - 18 Jul 2014 <==== NICE:-)
The source comes hours after my initial tweet and email to you guys.
https://twitter.com/Jeroen_Snijders/status/489889252097142784
https://twitter.com/Jeroen_Snijders/status/489891473404747777
According to Field McConnell, ex American fighter pilot and ex commercial airline pilot, these aircraft are fitted with non-interuptible auto-pilots (911 being the excuse). They can be controlled from the ground or by AWACS and there is nothing the crew can do about it.
Was 9-11 the test.....Inquiring minds want to know and Procecute.
"these aircraft are fitted with non-interuptible auto-pilots"
Come on! Think that through. No one is going to make an auto pilot that cannot be disengaged for any aircraft, it's just not safe. That would be quite dangerous. Caveman dangerous.
But it's there now.... 911 all falls into place
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Uninterruptible_Autopilot
I sit corrected.
C'mon, man. Did you never see "Dr. Strangelove"?
SEYMOUR HERSH EXPOSES US GOVERNMENT LIES ON SYRIAN SARIN ATTACK
Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh has published an article demonstrating that the US government and President Barack Obama knowingly lied when they claimed that the Syrian government had carried out a sarin gas attack on insurgent-held areas last August. Hersh’s detailed account, based on information provided by current and former US intelligence and military officials, was published Sunday in the London Review of Books. The article, entitled “Whose sarin?,” exposes as a calculated fraud the propaganda churned out day after day by the administration and uncritically repeated by the media for a period of several weeks to provide a pretext for a military attack on the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pers-d10.html
SURELY THIS IS A LIE http://21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1-Britam-Leaks-Daily-Mail.jpg
AND THIS TOO http://joequinn.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Britam-email-Doughty.jpg
It's as though these fuckers think it's still 1910 and they can say something and people will take it at face value.
It's 2014 motherfuckers, the internet exists and it's populated by large swathes of people who don't trust their so-called leaders. Therefore there's a powerful motivation for us to investigate potential acts of war.
Evolve you assholes, youtube clips and fucking hearsay are amateur hour.
http://fr.sott.net/article/22258-Crash-du-Boeing-777-l-avion-du-presiden...
30minutes gap between mh17 & poutine plane on same trajectory.
poutin was the target from cia/neonazi ukrain
It's probably a good idea to find out what comms exchange took place between flight MH17 and Kiev ATC before this incident to see if it was diverted into a dangeous area. However, it's not at all unusual for the same daily flight to use different paths each time. The most common reason is weather expectations, the pilot will want to avoid areas of turbulence or storms etc. So I think analysing MH17 flight paths for previous 10 flights may not prove anything, unless yesterday's diversionary route was given by Kiev ATC. They will then need to explain why.
One minute warning to Americans and people of the world.
http://youtu.be/_QZLuu_8du4
Right on, we DON'T want war with Russia. I would rather we force Mexico to controll their damn border and open up to let us take bus loads of illegals back there, drop them off, and make it Mexico's problem. When we do, you will damn sure see them step up their own border security...
Tyler, problem dissolved. Not sure of the 502 error. Didn't want to feed additional IP harvesting.
Glad to be back.
MH17 shot down by Ukraine
latest:
http://tersee.com/#!q=mh17&t=text
Just a note to the masonic cretins
Dutch: Obviously out, never liked you currs anyway. Mexicans haha. Sodom and Gomorrha are remembered, you will be not.
We old world folks are in the know about that "HAARP" attack you "23" are planning.
Just know that a response will be disproportionate (Nothing to do with Jews, nothing to all, a question of style)
"From Donbas to Mauritius" go with the flow...and the vampire turned your Horus into a husk. I am sure survivors will say (and believe) it wasn't worth the souls sold and the lightyears travelled. "This way up" to the class 2 civ, the most quoted scripture during freefall.
"But Obama" Golf, going through the motions, father like son...first the range goes then the intensity and finally the light.
Slendermen are so 2009, we shall see.
"But but we are from a high astral plane...like angels"
Take a look around. You and your frame of reference took a dive together.
I don't pretend to care about you and your kind, but Amsterdam should be the pit by next week, Mexico suburbia (with massive losses), Doha the highest point where you will be able to converse with humans as equals. As for your homeworld...planets are quite tough, they can survive a solar flare and red giant or three.
"I have de key" Yup, praise Baby Lucifer, Aton will return will return with his 72 virgin gay angels to slay us ghouls.
I hope that the sponsorship money you are receiving from Russia ar worth the mind prostitution showed in this article.
Yeah, this is a worldwide conspiracy against the Snow White Putin and its Snow White Russian regime. These western bastards, they even fly civilian airplanes in front of Russian SAM rocket launchers to provide false flags for the World Zionism, CIA, the Reptilian Dark Forces and MSM. Poor Russian victims, their SAM launchers were remote controlled by criminals, CRIMINALS. Because everybody knows, a "pro-russian insurgent" is just a regular civilian that learned yesterday to shoot a weapon and is making sophisticated weapons from plows and kitchenware. There is no, NO proven involvement of Russian special forces in Ukraine. And no proven involvement of the Russian Army. Because Russia only wants to "keep peace". Crimeea was just a special case. And they "voted" for "reunion" ;) Because Crimeea it was after all Russian, everybody knows that. And, by the way, Ukraine downed a Russian plane 15 years ago, so it's fair game to down it's planes. And why did that plane was flying over the warzone? Yeah, it's Ukraine fault, because they diverted it to be shot down, by mistake. But it isn't clear who shot it down. Ukraine has SAM rockets too, and they are using them in the area. No, the rebels don't have any plane to use land-air rockets against, but Ukraine is to blame. The plane was over their territory, so they are to blame, Mr. Putin is right on spot. Yeah, these nazi, NAZI Ukrainians. This is a holy war against nazism. God save President Putin because he is the one that protects the whole decadent world from these criminal Ukrainians. And I hope there is nobody to say otherwise, because the Russian natural gas could be suddenly disconnected. No, its just self defense and anyway, the decadent EU is to blame because it shouldn't dare to blame President Putin for any killing. This is in itself an aggressive act against Russia. Because Russia is a peace loving country and it's peace keeping forces in Transnistria, Georgia, Crimeea, Cecenia are just defensive forces. Yeah, there is a CIA plot here to discredit the progresist Russian Government and the legitimate freedom fighting of the oppressed Russian Minority in Ukraine.
The down arrows mean you are over the target. We need more like you to come through some of these threads and bust up the group think and incestuous programming that goes on.
Down arrows means that he is completely brain washed by the MSM/US Govt narrative. We have free and critical thinkers on this site able to put two and two together...
Nope. What you can't see is that you get programmed inadvertently by other hedgers to believe completely irrational themes. It happens to me as well. It's how the brain works. I just try to remain rational. And you are right there are a lot of free thinkers that post thought provoking info and many that post irrational non-sense. It's a false dichotomy to think because one doesn't buy into highly implausible scenarios that somehow you believe msm narratives instead. The above poster included a lot of the irrational themes in a big sarcastic poke. If you felt a sting...good. It's healthy.
5 ! I know that one, gheesh!
The pro-Russian propaganda is strong on this forum. It is in no way antagonistic to pro-Western propaganda. It's another bad face of the same coin. Ukraine is a victim of geostrategic games with human flesh and bones.
Yeah Putin really had something to gain by shooting down a passenger plane didn't he? Cui Bono?
Yeah, the US CIA machine didn't support the coup that took out the democratically elected and pro Russian president of Ukraine and then didn't install a puppet in the interim. Nah, that never happened either did it?
The sacraficial Lamb.........Or was that the Path the FAA demanded they take? There is no truth coming out of the Western governments now.
Take in some fresh air and think as clear as possible. OK, you with me.
Read the above sentence out loud. Now try to think where this crash took place.
I am sorry for being a smart ass. It's just that so many go off the deep end in these situations and forget to be rational.
I seriously wonder why they even care to construct such (relatively) elaborate false flag operations , as one thing is sure; neither US or European peoples care about the truth.
There`s a small fringe of people that care, frequent the internet, read ZH and similar sites, but how would that influence NWO policies?
Ten thousand persons know perfectly well that it was a false flag attack on Russian interests.
So?
The mass of sheeple bleats in chorus with the Ministry of Truth.
They could`ve put a sock puppet show showing the EvilPutin shooting a bow at a stick airplane and the sheeple would bleat their reprobation till the next zap.
Relinking this from the previous thread:
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28411,9M-MRD-Mal...
Isn't this curious? First flight exactly 17 years ago, MH17, shot down on 17th.
And look who is talking numerology and 7:
http://deusnexus.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/occult-message-lagarde/
WTF???
nothing like a serious geopolitical event (or 2) to fester up right before this 20th date, eh?
Sure she isn't just playing games with us?
edited: sorry about the duplicate post.
nothing like a serious geopolitical event (or 2) to fester up right before this 20th date, eh?
Sure she isn't just playing games with us?
edited: sorry about the duplicate post.
nothing like a serious geopolitical event (or 2) to fester up right before this 20th date, eh?
Sure she isn't just playing games with us?
...and the Christine Lagard IMF video is...wait for it...wait for it... 7 minutes long.
RT: On Thursday, when a Malaysian Airlines plane was apparently shot down over Ukraine, a Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational in the region, the Russian Defense Ministry said, contradicting Kiev’s statements.
The battery was deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner, the ministry said in a statement. It said radiation from the battery’s radar was detected by the Russian military.
“The Russian equipment detected throughout July 17 the activity of a Kupol radar, deployed as part of a Buk-M1 battery near Styla [a village some 30km south of Donetsk],” the ministry said in a statement.
The ministry said the radar could be providing tracking information to another battery deployed in the region, which was at a firing distance from the plane’s flight path.
Earlier Kiev said it could not have fired a missile at the passing civilian plane because it had no Buk missile launchers deployed in the region. At the same time the Ukrainians said the militias had no Buk systems in their hands, according to a statement from the country’s Prosecutor General.
The Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 carrying almost 300 people on board crashed on Thursday as it was flying over Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. The plane was apparently shot down by a surface-to-air missile, although both Kiev and the local militias fighting against it deny responsibility. A flurry of condemnations and calls for a swift investigation followed the disaster.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
I'd like to bang the black box. How does one go about that?
Cui Bono?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-downed-over-warzone-ukraine-who-was-behind-it-cui-bono/5391840
I was really surprised it was even flying over Ukraine in the first place. In the early 90s, I was flying back and forth to Asia and the ME from the UK, and every time the planes flew around Yugoslavia, not over it. Sensible.
Why on earth are they flying over the fucking Ukraine anyway?
Because fuel prices today are killer!
I believe we have now reached Peak Conspiracy Theory.
There's just too many in play to make sense of anything anymore.
So I'll just fall back to the default theory of everything and attribute all current events to the master plan of our reptillian overlords.
they found bullet holes in a wing. wtf
http://www.blick.ch/news/ausland/waffe-noch-unklar-einschuss-loecher-im-...
Suspect Russia had those things locked and loaded and one went off by mistake or on auto. No one would want to acknowledge that too hard to explain. We did same. Imagine the few seconds watching that thing streak off toward shiny plane full of civilians.
West Ukraine probably was responsible.
MH 17 was diverted from Kiev. It could have been a technical accident, but that is higly improbable because supposedly the plane was escorted by two Ukrainian jets. This suggests that West Ukraine was hoping or planning for the plane to be shot down. I don't see them planning a diversion and then just hoping on the outcome.
As usual the wackiest theories appear on ZH. I'll join in, there was no plane at all it was the CIA using smoke and mirrors to start ww3.
Not WW3, just a take down of Putin. That's there ultimate goal.
try this one 33,000 feet anywhere close to 33rd degree
MH17 was definitely not flying in closed airspace as the following article points out in detail:
http://blog.wandr.me/2014/07/notam-malaysia-airlines-mh17/
Well we can quit looking for MH370 as it is clearly now a stolen recovery call in Ukraine.
I'd say 370 was a 'test drive' of the computer over ride system. This plane could've been 'driven' into this flight path by ground operators. Clearly, something stinks at MA.
backtracked flight data MH-17 07172014-03182014. Only flight planned that north of Black sea as 01062014. Route was diverted. Strange considering Putins planned flight yesterday over exact same area. http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
See https://twitter.com/Jeroen_Snijders/status/490114441569402880 for picture of flight MH17 01062014.
MH17 shot down by Ukraine
Data from Flightradar24.com reveals the Copenhagen to Singapore flight was in airspace above the dangerous Donetsk region just two minutes before the attack.
latest:
http://tersee.com/#!q=mh17&t=text
There are inconsistencies between the flight paths in this map & those which can still be obtained from the flight aware site itself - http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS17/history, please have a look. On the 9th,10th,11th,12th.14th, 15th, 16th July (according to the site I looked at 10 minutes ago) the flight paths over the Ukraine are the same as that taken on the 17th July, there was a slight deviation south on the 13th July. So unless flight aware have gone back & changed these earlier flight paths to be the same as that of the 17th I think it would be fair to say the map in your article is misleading.
A lot of recent (and not so recent) conspiracy theories point to the fact that this particular aircraft has a “Fly By Wire” system that can be remotely controlled (Google it) if one were conspiracy minded one might think the plane was subtly diverted using this method.
If one were conspiracy minded…