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The Final Moments Of Flight MH-17: The Russian Side Of The Story
Yesterday, we laid out extensively what the official Ukrainian case was when it came to "proof" that Russian separatists had launched the Buk missile which allegedly took down flight MH-17; we also highlighted several glaring inconsistencies and questions that still remained open after the "incriminatory" YouTube clip release. So far, any international response has been muted to this hastily prepared evidence of Russian involvement, although the day is still young.
So what about the Russian side? Below we present the key arguments made by Russia to suggest that not it, but Ukraine, was responsible for taking down the Malaysian Boeing.
As reported earlier by RIA, the Russian Defense Ministry says it had intercepted the activity of a Ukrainian radar system on the day the Malaysian plane went down in eastern Ukraine, the ministry’s press service said Friday.
"Throughout the day on July 17, Russian means of radar surveillance intercepted the operation of the Buk-M1 battery’s Kupol radar station located in the region of the populated area of Styla [30 kilometers south of Donetsk]," the press service said in a statement.
“The technical capabilities of the Buk-M1 allow the exchange of data on air targets between batteries of one battalion. Thus, the launch of rockets could have also occurred from any of the batteries deployed in the populated area of Avdeevka [8 kilometers north of Donetsk] or from Gruzsko-Zoryanskoe [25 kilometers east of Donetsk],” the ministry said.
Then we go to Itar-Tass which reported that civil flights in the air space of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions cannot be performed as the relevant communications infrastructure was destroyed there, a source from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) told ITAR-TASS on Thursday.
“Kiev operates all air traffic control services and it is unclear how this plane (the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday night. — ITAR-TASS) could appear in the area,” he said.
“During the combat actions in Donetsk’s airport the communication tower, a part of the united air control service was blown up,” he said adding that “planes cannot fly there.”
On July 8, Ukraine’s State Aviation Service banned all flights over the Donetsk and Luhansk regions aiming to provide “adequate safety and security for all flights of civil aircraft in favor of state aviation.
Meanwhile, Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council took a decision to close the airspace over the area of the so-called anti-terror operation to commercial flights three days ago, Rosaviatsia reported.
This goes back to our post from last night in which we wondered just why and how did it happen that flight MH-17 diverted from its usual trajectory to fly over what was effectively restricted airspace. This also is the topic of a follow up piece by Bloomberg released overnight in which it was noted that "Malaysian Air Flight Took Route Avoided by Qantas, Asiana:"
Qantas hasn’t used the route for a few months, said Andrew McGinnes, a spokesman for the Australian carrier, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific said it has been detouring for “quite some time.” Korean Air Lines Co. and Asiana Airlines Inc. said in statements they have been avoiding the area since March 3.
One hopes that all lingering questions about the flight path, and where the instructions to change it came from, will be answered when the contents of the flight black box are released.
And finally, as RT reported, the national governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, admitted that while the separatists indeed are in possession of one BUK missile unit, it is not operational, and even if it was, it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report.
We will ignore circulating reports of two Ukraine jets that may have followed the Boeing as there is, at least for now, zero direct or circumstantial evidence validating this story aside from one Twitter account which has since been deleted.
In brief the plot thickens, and all that matters now is whose propaganda, read media outlets, will be more persuasive although in reality even that is moot: in the echo chambers of ideology, most people already have their mind made up as to "who" the shooter was.
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Still kicking, are we?
Someone is asleep at the wheel. Yo Tyler! I got money riding on this chump! Running out of time here see, little help here is all I'm asking.
I thought I had connections around here. What is it, Tyler, do I have to show you my tits? Well tits were right there in the avatar. Loser.
You still owe me 10 bucks, cougar.
Sister says hi and how's the family, and to go fuck yourself. Oh now she's cracking up. Her sense of humor is sorta out there.
Nine PM down at Persephonie's House of Blood and Biscuits, and bring your backgammon board, double or nuth'n. Four trillion computational units says you ain't got the balls, mutherfucker.
Careful. If you don't watch your mouth you may say something worthwhile.
Bankers botching another false flag event. Interesting how it occurs about the same time as the Gazan invasion.
"never let a good crises go to waste"
Rahm the traitor.
I believe nothing from any side. The West has lied for so long via the "news" you simply cannot take it at face value and the Russian side is little better if at all. Just keep the crowdsourcing info from all the ZH'rs coming(sans the State Dept Disinfo PaTROLL that is more pervasive daily here)....
Another conspiracy here. Head of pro russian separatist Igor Strelkov said that many bodies in plane were not fresh (they died days before crash), and a lot of special medical equipment was in a plane. http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7586 http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7573Good call.
When everyone is lying you can't take lying to be evidence of culpability.
So far I've noted in posts:
-The West Ukrainains lying.
- The East Ukrainians lying.
- The Russian authorities lying.
It is hard to tell whether Obama is lying or his teleprompter, but the administration's statements are false.
So... everyone can't be simultaneously doing a false flag. False flags have to be carefully planned.
When the frame fits beautifully you know it was made ahead of time.
While I see a lot of frames being built after the fact, I don't see any immediate perfect fits.
That indicates it was not premeditated, but that everyone wants to turn it to their own uses.
Drunkenness on the part of a SAM operator might be a factor...
Good call.
When everyone is lying you can't take lying to be evidence of culpability.
So far I've noted in posts:
-The West Ukrainains lying.
- The East Ukrainians lying.
- The Russian authorities lying.
It is hard to tell whether Obama is lying or his teleprompter, but the administration's statements are false.
So... everyone can't be simultaneously doing a false flag. False flags have to be carefully planned.
When the frame fits beautifully you know it was made ahead of time.
While I see a lot of frames being built after the fact, I don't see any immediate perfect fits.
That indicates it was not premeditated, but that everyone wants to turn it to their own uses.
Yesterday, Tyler, you presented the Russian rebuttal to the Ukranian side of the story. Today you present the Russian side of the story as a foregone conclusion. You are not merely reporting the positions of the two sides, you are advocating the Russian side.
On which article did you comment? I can't see any "foregone conclusion" in the above, just reporting of what is going on.
Don't try to convince me white is black, or even better, return to your "Manipulation 101" handbook - it is far too early for you to try your abilities on the ZH crowd!
Yrb.. another aimless, unemployed troll.
Nothing is a foregone conclusion here. Many viewpoints and much input. Many collections of information being posted. If I wanted the simple version I would tune in Fox. Why do you criticize exchange of information. Some could be right and some could be misleading. But some could also preserve links and information that are being tampered with. Called thinking.
That is a good piece TYLER: KUDOS!!!
then a bang blow up on der ground
dis sure looks like a bang from 30 thousand feet wreckage hitting der ground at free fall speeds.
dis video reminds me of der pentagram washington 9 elevens boeing hit video.
Malaysian Plane Crash Video Shows Ground Explosion, Not Missile Explosion In Air!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fytpEF6-EQ
Is this a dancing Israelis thing?
Was this someone who just happens to hang out in some remote area in order to film the flight of a common commerical flight?
Clearly, if this is actual footage it would tend to, pardon the pun, blow up the storyline... (in which case wouldn't the folks on the Russian side point all of this out?)
I think the recording of the separatists was very acted and spoken in a heavy ukrainian accent whereas most of the separatist speak perfect russian.
Here is something I learned from my stay in Russia, plus my sister's long (many year's) stay in Russia, where she worked as a linguist: Despite the immense sie of the nation, there are no regional acents, unlike the US. A Russian from Sakhalin island doesn't speak that much differently than one from St.Petersburg.
The big difference is the accented Russian spoken by nationalities other than Russian. A Russian can distinguish in a moment the nationality of a person based on their distinctive accent- Chechen, Ukranian, Georgian, Buryat, Turkmen, etc. If these guys were speaking Ukranian-accented Russian, they were most probably not separatists. Most likely they were Ukranian security forces.
Video with evidence Russia did it went terribly wrong.
Just found it in a German online news service.
*Somebody published a video as evidence the Russians did it. The video is a conversation between two Russian talking about the succesful shooting down of the plane. It was PUBLISHED after it happened. But what the publisher didn't seem to know. You can see in the video statistics that it was UPLOADED already 18 hours BEFORE the plane got shot down.
(Timezones don't explain it. Even if the server was in Hawaii, and you could not go any further in regards to time zones, the upload time would have been at 08:10 AM local time in Ukraine, still hours before the event.)
When the publisher realized his mistake he deleted the video but it is still in the cache.
So somebody knew in advance about all this, and planned to blame the Russians. Who could that somebody be?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM
That guy DAHBOO77's accent is awesome, dude
Just asking here. I am curious about the "creation" of the video as well. Found this and I am not tech savy enough to confirm or deny.: Bear with me.:
One guy says: "
2014-07-16
19:10:24 (creation date)
Just to make sure that my comment won't get lost, I post it here: you are kind of right, the reason is actually a YouTube bug. Here's a short description how to check my statement:
BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!.1. First of all, you should find a video metadata viewer and a YouTube downloader. (See my comments on this later.)
2. Find any video on your computer, or record one.
3. Login to YouTube and upload the video.
4. Once it is uploaded, copy the link of it, for example, for this video, it is
5. Now, download the newly uploaded video, and examine its metadata.
What you'll find is that, in UTC time zone (Google it if you don't know what is the current UTC time), it shows that the video was created nearly exactly one day before the actual upload time, independent from the actual creation.
So, finally, about software: I can't really recommend anything. You should make sure, however, that you download the video from googlevideo.com
(that is the ACTUAL host of youtube, anything else gets converted). As far as I know, keepvid dot com is a good solution, however, I'm not 100% sure. For viewing metadata, I used a linux-only tool, named avprobe, but there probably are some good software for Windows, too.?
Show less
..... and this as well from someone else. (I am not identifying the posters).
Yes, I wanted to check myself and see what I can find. The first host website where this file appeared is using Moscow time. So the file was created on July 16th at
19:10pm Moscow time, which was 17:10pm Amsterdam time (they are 2 hours behind Moscow). The plane left Amsterdam 7 hours later - at 12:15am on July17th. So it looks like the timezones can't explain this early appearance of the file
Anyone confirm if the first comment is true?
AND I kinda wonder why so far anyway we have no mass scenes of mourning relatives? Nowhere to be seen on my TV; faithfully tuned in to CNN. (with time-outs for Judge Judy and People's Court where life is actually evolving (smile)).
Vote up!
8
Vote down!
0This is real, I have confirmed for myself. Ripped the video straight off of youtube with youtube-dl, scanned the metadata with MediaInfo. Screenshot below.
http://i.imgur.com/Rtptix8.png
This was created a full 20 hours in advance.
There are far too many inconsistancies, rumor, inneuendo and outright lies going on. Soical media posts from rebels claiming a shoot down are quickly removed when it becomes clear it wasn't an army plane, failure of international flight services to reroute traffic away from a war zone (perhaps because it would cost more for the airlines?), conflicting reports about who clears routes with whom, the capabilities of all sides (all apparently have access to SAM missiles, the rebels having captured at least 1 battery from Ukranian forces.
This is going to keep being a cluster until folks stop pointing fingers and going "me, me, me" all the time. Too bad its the innocents that always pay the price.
"What difference does it make?"
HRC
it doesn't. 300 people are dead and not even a world war will bring them back, even though some will try their best to convince us all of the opposite.
IF
it is shown to have been done deliberately,
however optimistic or pessimistic,
the possibility exists to prosecute the perpetrators,
and/or also that public revulsion may deter such acts being done in the future.
And perhaps some of the victims' friends and relatives may also find it less distressing to know the true cause/circumstances.
Screw that.
I don't want the 'perpetrators' prosecuted. Chances are HIGHLY in favor that it was just a screw-up.
CUI BONO?
Is it good for the US? Did you see the markets take a dump? Is it good for West Ukraine? Is it good for East Ukraine? Is it good for Russia?
There was a deadly foul-up somewhere. That's a far more likely explanation.
I don't want them prosecuted. Given what they believed they knew, they probably thought they were doing the right thing.
This is THE NORMAL STATE OF AFFAIRS IN WAR. Don't kid yourself. No how much they tell you it is clean and surgical, don't be fooled. It isn't.
I want this to get people to step back from the brink, and think about whether there are any sacrifices they can make to do this some other way.
War criminals should be prosecuted.
Non-war criminals should be prosecuted.
Your stated belief that the first group should instead get a free pass is direction down
the well-worn path of excuse-making,
and neither a new or improved "some other way" as you fantasize.
Short of verifiable truth here I would truly hope you are correct. A massive screw up by some "poor" misguided fool is more palatable than an orchestrated attack.
Counterbalance
On CNBC _
"US believes Russian separatists fired missile that downed MH17: Dow Jones, citing sources"
There, all decided....move along everyone.
first the video of the british dude critical of Israel, and now this. please stop confusing us by presenting both sides of a story.
LL,,
How did u get so smart?
Flight paths can't be photo-shopped...
UN Security Council Live in Progress.
And the difference between this and "UN Security Council Dead in Their Chairs" is????
No, here it comes: NATO.
Scientists dead, Dutch Dead.
1914.
Are you talking about the UN with its headquarters in NY which both Israel and the U.S. blatently ignore whenever it doesn't suit them? They should put United Nations Plaza on Madison Avenue.
WTF are you talking about?
This is the move to move ZATO into Ukraine.
This is the move to threaten Putin and go to War.
I hear the Chow hall bell ringing at Eglin. Time for your diner.
True...
But they are hardly alone in ignoring UN when it suits them.
Care to name a country that doesn't?
I hate Hitler...actually i believe that in a past life i fought him...but i approved his destruction/occupation of the Netherlands in WW 2.
He is blowing smoke about the need for a central radar. That stopped being true by 1980. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
I read the wiki article. old BUK systems used the central radar, and then were upgraded for radar on each mobile unit. does Ukraine have the latest BUK systems? Doubtful.
Those pesky Russians have an answer for everything! Why can't they just lie down and die like Libya. We could just then get on with our lives, business as usual. One big happy PLANTATION. FUCK.
This is the video where a guy with nickname DAHBOO77 shows how the video shown by ukraine goverment about the separatists in Donetsk being involved in that accident has been created a day before the plane has been shot down!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM
It's interesting that the original youtube video has been removed from youtube since then. And I spotted on several sites in DIFFERENT languages trolls telling people THE SAME STORY about a bug in youtube backend giving wrong timestamps for videos!!! It's all fucking unbelievable.
Well OK but is it possible that this info regarding the glitch in uploading videos is even remotely true? I posted above where one fellow outlines how to test if true. Don't jump too fast.
Let's review some facts about the Malaysian government:
a) won't give control of arguably the most important shipping lane in the world to the globalist hell hounds
b) maintains an official position that 9/11 was a false flag attack
c) maintains an official position that Bush and crew are war criminals
It matters little how this plane was brought down or who exactly perpetrated it. What matters to the globalist hounds of hell is that Maylasia suffers and that enemies of the hell hounds are blamed.
All lies, most of them are in on Obama's caliphate project.
Malaysia had condemed the Israeli government just hours before the plane blew up. They also have a been fund raising for the Palestinians since 2002.
"Anifah also said that the Palestine Humanitarian Trust Fund established in 2002 under the purview of Wisma Putra was ready to receive financial donations from the public.
He said the accumulated donation would be channelled to the Palestinian people via the relevant international bodies to help ease their suffering.
All donations could be channelled to the CIMB Islamic Bank account number 8600302489."
http://www.malaysiandigest.com/news/509552-malaysia-strongly-condemns-is...
Swift code is: CTBBMYKL
The Ukrainian military is good at high-altitude shoot downs, like the Russian flight 1812 that they blew out of the sky into the Black Sea in 2001, killing 78 passengers and crew. When attempts to deny that they were responsible failed, they then admitted to conducting the missile attack:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812
Relations between Russia and the Ukraine were much friendlier then and Putin initially stated:
"the weapons used in those exercises had such characteristics that make it impossible for them to reach the air corridor through which the plane was moving."
So one could also conclude that Putin has plenty of experience in lying to cover up aircraft shootdowns.
Well something crawled up Poroshenko's ass and died... because that really stinks, but it also doesn't necessarily add up.
1) Kiev Buks could (theoretically) have taken the plane at either altitude.
2) Dropping to the ceiling of the restricted airspace (notwithstanding that the entire airspace appeared closed by other reports) ~320 and providing a fighter escort would make the civilian airliner "appear" to be a legitimate military target.
3) But that doesn't answer the rather basic question of whether the plane was shot down by air-to-air or surface-to-air missile, much less whose missile did the deed.
4) Why would the Kiev military be sharing this information informally?
I'll bet you money that the West Ukes have had their military flights shadowing - "hiding behind" if you prefer - civilian flights in order to cut losses to Air Defense.
I'll bet a case of beer.
Anyone want to take that bet?
Hell no, it's a hot Friday afternoon in summer, I could actually use that case of beer.
Colonel Mustard, in the den, with a Bic.
The US said they tracked the missile yesterday. If it had been Russians or seperatists, they would have said so immediately. They said nothing. That is all the evidence I need.
Missiles and radars come with emitter profiles, radar tracks, and pulse modulation profiles.
They don't come with an return address. So anyone with monitoring equipment could see WHAtT it was, and could see APPROXIMATELY WHERE it came from, but could not see the identity of the people doing the firing.
Well, doesn't the NSA monitor all global electronic communication, and especially hostile Comm from conflict regions?
On the other hand, if the same NSA group that can't find the lost IRS emails is responsible for this Comm, the world will never know.
"doesn't the NSA monitor all global electronic communication, and especially hostile Comm from conflict regions?"
I think that you're thinking of Israeli intelligence (which is tapped into the NSA's data).
Careful to accept this as though it's a fact that a missle was used. It's possible that this could be a false premise that the game-players wish us to swallow such that they can then unfold the "story."
[duplicate post]]
UN Security Council in session.
Great, we've got no facts..........so let's decide something.
What a mess the world is.
Exactly,
They all lie and then rush to judgement.
US UN Ambassador Accuses Russian Separatists with Shootdown at Security Council.
US: "...Technical assistance for Separatists from Russian Technical Experts."
"President Putin continues to choose Military Escalation over Peace--" US Ambassador."
"Russia Must Stop Destabilizing Ukraine."
"Russia at fault for Aircraft Disaster."
WAR>
I always say to myself, if the propaganda is this crazy when they are effectively at a stalemate, how stupid and delusional will it get once they start losing.
The USA has assets that can see exactly where this missle was launched at...and those assets were tuned to this area as it is a hot spot right now..they new it is less than a second...that is their job ..to watch for missle launches....Nuclear War stuff...I agree it was the seperatists that fired it...remember many Ukraine militarys deserted early on...some could have been attached to this rogue battery....enough to fire it...jus sayin...I still will say they just lost their war though...
Another conspiracy here. Head of pro russian separatist Igor Strelkov said that many bodies in plane were not fresh (they died days before crash), and a lot of special medical equipment was in a plane.
links
http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7586
http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7573
The AIDS experts
Well, I guess if some anti American website is going to take Russia's side in this conflict, it might as well be this Anarcho-Capitalism website.
The Ukrainians are losing on the ground near Donetsk. The Ukrainians want NATO's help, they have asked for NATO's help every few days. The Ukrainian FM asked for immediate NATO help after yesterday. Why was the plane off course? And really, who has BUK's with good eough radar to pull this off? The quick and crappy Ukrainian youtube video/audio is not evidence imho. The Russians people of the Ukraine have asked from the beginning for a referendum and instead they have faced violence from the installed government in Kyiv. I think it stinks and the Ukrainian's have some explaining as to why the plane was off course and who has operational BUK's with good Radar.
The Ukies were choking on its own shit. The anti Nazi resistance was beating them on all fronts. They desperately needed something to distract the world's attention away from their shameful defeat and embarrassing policies of ethnic cleansing. The same goes for the latest Israeli's invasion of Gaza.
What could be better then another "shoot down" of some Malaysian plane ?!...
This whole affair has a clear stylistic stamp of the CIA/MOSSAD execution.
So arrogant of them to think that the rest of the world is made up of such idiots who would be unable to link together all these obvious clues.
All in all, Kiev/CIA/MOSSAD Nazis are the only beneficiaries of this engineered incident.
To better undestand how tightly knit things are:
http://coat.ncf.ca/P4C/66/spy.pdf
After reading that one can understand how there came to be the Dancing Israelis...
Interesting assertation that it was an assassination attempt but they got the wrong plane.
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
...
“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.
"The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical", the source added.
...
Still doesn't explain the reports of Ukrainian jets escorting/diverting it into restricted airspace if they tried to intercept/reroute the plane in Poland unless the fighter jets weren't Ukrainian....
"Then we go to Itar-Tass which reported that civil flights in the air space of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions cannot be performed as the relevant communications infrastructure was destroyed there, a source from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) told ITAR-TASS on Thursday."
This confirms what I said yesterday. The East Ukrainians can't rely on knowing which are the civilian flights by the means they would normally expect to. I haven't a clue whether the radars on the airfield were destroyed or captured. But from the East Ukrainian point of view the distinction is not meaningful.
"it would be unable to reach a height of over 30,000 feet without central radar guidance which the Donetsk region does not have, once again suggesting that a Surface to Air Missile, if indeed one was used, came from the Ukraine side. Surely it will be very easy for international monitors to validate this report."
This is a materially false technical statement.
The missile will get up there just fine, with or without radar.
The networked radars provide the full target acquisition because a single radar can only "see" within direct line-of-sight, and only out to a certain range. The guidance radar provides target lock for the missile to reach its target. If a single BUK had a radar lock with line-of-sight and fired he would hit the airliner.
He just lied to you.
"“Kiev operates all air traffic control services and it is unclear how this plane (the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 that crashed in eastern Ukraine near the Russian border Thursday night. — ITAR-TASS) could appear in the area,” he said"
This too is not a correct statement. We know how and why the Air Liner was flying there because Malaysian Airlines told us: This was an established route that they and others had been following (the others deny it), believing the cruising altitude was sufficient protection.
He is asking you to disbelieve what Malaysian airlines has said about itself.
SHORTLY IT GOT THERE BECAUSE THAT WAS IT'S ESTABLISHED AND APPROVED FLIGHT PLAN. THAT'S WHAT MALAYSIAN AIRLINES ANNOUNCED AND IMMEDIATLY FOLLOWED BY SAYING THEY WERE CHANGING THAT ROUTE.
The flight plan is on record at the European air control, and will still bear the Captain's signature. It was unquestionably stupid for flight control to approve that flight plan. And the fact that it was approved indicates that there was AT LEAST miscommunication between Euro flight control and Ukraine flight control. But those are separate questions from the question of who fired the missile.
The problem with the above statement is that EVERY bit of the above statement is a provable falsehood.
We know international flights are coordinated and not under one country's fuill control. So, no, Ukraine does not operate ALL traffic control services, just one part of them. We know how the plane got there. It is on the frickin' flight plan!!! And the frickin' flight plan is on file!!!!
Mistakes happen.
The firing system could have been EITHER the West or East Ukrainians - so he is techically correct when he say is was 'Ukraine" that fired.
But the delivery is total sophistry meant to lead to the conclusion that the West Ukrainians MUST have done it, without directly saying so.
The question of 'whodunnit' is still open.
There's plenty of stupidity here for everyone to share.
But the lying has to stop.
Yawn... You boldy state with manly assertive words that:
"This is a materially false technical statement.
The missile will get up there just fine, with or without radar.
The networked radars provide the full target acquisition because a single radar can only "see" within direct line-of-sight, and only out to a certain range. The guidance radar provides target lock for the missile to reach its target. If a single BUK had a radar lock with line-of-sight and fired he would hit the airliner.
He just lied to you"
How about some links to some actual data to support your rather bold accusations Mr. Know-it-all? Until you supply verifiable data to back your accusations up, your accusations are as meaningless as the words in the article you are attacking.
What you say is true.
The BUK can operate as a stand-alone system, and 30,000 ft is within easy reach.
The only restriction is that the BUK stand alone can only use radar in the direction it's facing (which may or may not indicate which direction the missile came from)
However it's abundantly clear that flying at 30,000 ft never actually provided any protection and it was only a matter of time before something like this happened.
As has already been pointed out- planes flew 'safely' over Iraq during the war, but the technology of weaponry in this war is vastly superior on both sides - even if the operators are not.
Yawn.... You boldy state with absolute certainty:
"SHORTLY IT GOT THERE BECAUSE THAT WAS IT'S ESTABLISHED AND APPROVED FLIGHT PLAN. THAT'S WHAT MALAYSIAN AIRLINES ANNOUNCED AND IMMEDIATLY FOLLOWED BY SAYING THEY WERE CHANGING THAT ROUTE.
The flight plan is on record at the European air control, and will still bear the Captain's signature. It was unquestionably stupid for flight control to approve that flight plan. And the fact that it was approved indicates that there was AT LEAST miscommunication between Euro flight control and Ukraine flight control. But those are separate questions from the question of who fired the missile.
The problem with the above statement is that EVERY bit of the above statement is a provable falsehood."
Once again, how about some links with verifiable data to back your accusations up? Google is your friend.
Try this theory for size.
Hackers have worked out how to re-direct planes - well certainly Malaysian airlines anyway.
(they will be labelled terrorists soon)
One sent out into the middle of the ocean (practice) - the next one diverted over a restricted war zone.
Don't worry though folks - nobody will react too quickly as 'cancelled flights cost money' and we all know what a life is worth now.
Now how do I get me one of thosse Buk thingys - they look fun. It will certainly be a better result firing them at police helicopters than my current catapult.
Hell Boeing admits BUAP is hackable by outsiders.
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/11/18/2013-27343/special-c...
"The proposed architecture is novel or unusual for commercial transport airplanes by enabling connection to previously isolated data networks connected to systems that perform functions required for the safe operation of the airplane. This proposed data network and design integration may result in security vulnerabilities from intentional or unintentional corruption of data and systems critical to the safety and maintenance of the airplane. The existing regulations and guidance material did not anticipate this type of system architecture or electronic access to aircraft systems. Furthermore, regulations and current system safety assessment policy and techniques do not address potential security vulnerabilities, which could be caused by unauthorized access to aircraft data buses and servers."
Zero Day bitches.
The truth will seem so unbelievable that it will not be believed even when it is revealed, not only about this plane but also about 911, Kennedy and all the rest of the shit that is going on.
Notice what we are all not talking about.
I think there are alot of unarmed people beling killed today.
I read a blurb, the tanks are to kill anything that moves.
Any headlines on ZeroHedge, no.
Two birds with one rocket.
Are you talking about the CIA stockpiling weapons in Irbid, Jordan ?
If you come up for air you'd see that there IS a acticle on ZH:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/israel-overruns-gaza-tanks-orde...
The shot came from the grassy knoll.
U.S. financed. Blackwater trained!
It was posted already somewhere else, but does this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQXaCqLOnTo look like a plane falling from the sky that was hit by a missile?
Just saying...
This plane was not shot down. period.
You could tell from that video? Really?
Well where is the plane and debris in that video? See any? Maybe it's just the guy filming the wrong scene.
THIS is a plane being shot down (nice "patriotic" background music btw):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VBiqsQ2CjY
Who Shot Down 777 Over The Ukraine?
Does this one look like it? Notice the blue skies...very different to other clips purporting to be of the event in question (eg DABOO7 and RT, the one that looks like it's filmed from a quarry but shows no falling plane, or smoke signature, and which appears to be a 'hide' or security camera quality including blurred edge of the image):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA
H/T http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/07/evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh...
Reading the conspiracy theories is half the fun
It's a way of vetting data... And seeing that none of this will ever actually be tested in a court of law (like 9/11 wasn't), then this is what we have...
SO let me get this straight - While half the NWO is trying to get everyone riled up to start a war and cause alot of chaos to kill off the useless eaters, the other half of the NWO is manupulating markets (especially PMs) and public opinions to make everyone think that we have "tranquility" around the globe so stock and bond prices keep going up and the useless eaters just keep eating.
ZH is starting to look like ZS (zero sense).
One guy starts the fire and one tells the frog that the warm water is an air bubble...
"I don't know the facts yet, but George Zimmerman did it,"
Bo Bergdahl's ass rapist father
"If I had a plane, it would look like a 777".
... tell-tale signs of Kiev's military jets involvement? ... "Photographs and videos emerging from the shootdown of Malaysian Flight 17 shows that chaff was deployed as shared in this newly released video ..."
http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2014/07/mh17-shootdown-shows-chaff-was-deployed-proving-fighter-jet-was-somehow-involved-2453122.html
... Chaff is dispensed from military aircraft to obscure an aircraft from RADAR and RADAR guided missiles.
Personally I think it's toilet paper or kitchen towels from the galley unrolling. Used to do this as a kid from the science block at school...and the paper floating earthbound appears as the confetti of 911 canyon. I assume that briefcases would have also had explosive depressurisation as the airframe burst. The intimately human side of this...Tragic and profoundly sad way to go...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPu1dhje3Po
H/T http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ca/2014/07/evidence-continues-to-emerge-mh...
sanctions one day before plane shot down
i guess we are headed for some kind of short war, US, Russia
might put an end to dollar bullying
ready for that?
Per TASS 2 AWACs on duty..
TASS
A failed false flag ops....?
Clean passports?
Plane crashed close to Russian border?
Ukraine military had an operational BUK unit?
Distraction from Israeli Gaza bombing/invasion/ethnic cleansing ops?
The big radio station here is blaming the "Russian terrorists".
Edit: The big discussion though is should you wear shorts to work on a hot casual Friday.
The simple answer is it was selected off the autopilot menu.
Don't worry the entire global MSM is putting the USA-Ukraine side of the story....a very little of Russian side.
So all those butt-hurt that ZH isn't putting the MSM side of the story need not worry....papers and TV across the globe are saturated with it.
Because I didn't receive an e-mail confirmation, I post the message here again, I sent to ZH:
VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
The Youtube video you brought yesterday (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17 ) is a fake.
Download it from Youtube.
Get the tool mediainfo.
And check the timestamp, when the file was encoded!
Date: July 16th!
So the phonecalls were TAPPED AND THE VIDEO ENCODED BEFORE they allegedly happened on 17th!
i told you it is washinton /CIA order to kiev ( west nazi ukraine = cia = usa ) to shoot the plane to blame poutine so he can be sued on la haye so it breaks the economical BRICS structurating that is overkillling FED/DOLLAR/D.C/EU BUSINESS
europ will not move on reality coz they are part of the target , the brics are 50% of the planet, you have a 50-50 on the world population now with the US-EU vs BRICS
get this hammered in yours brains, this is the final stage of the countermeasure to try to scam russia to maintain the balance on the US--EU side before loosing the control leading world economy, abandon economic war because it is just lost, to a real old shool war.
i repeat this is real hit to bend the economical reality on US-EU favor. dont be fooled, this is nothing else.
It will get really interesting if we have guidance from Kiev air traffic controllers altering (or failing to alter) the course so that the plane crosses Donetsk. Likewise, if there is reliable evidence of Western Ukraine shooting down the plane, what will happen to their US support? This is why it is important for the Russians to have the black box - so he CIA won't be able to tamper with it.
Washington will send them Dollars for a job well done
Then they get more Dollars (Euros whatever) to keep for themselves instead of paying for Russian gas.
Ukraine is doing the betting for the Zios. That's pretty fucking clear at this point. I thought initially there was legit concern over Russian imperialism but who was I kidding? It's the same template over and over and over again and the paper trail always leads to the same instigators.
#Bringbackourmalaisians
You shouldn't feel the need to rationalize (as you do in the first paragraph) presenting both sides of a story.
The way to clear up what happened would be a joint Russian/US crash site investigation. Which is exactly what I expect Borodai to be calling for any minute... /sarc
The Sheeple in the UK are lapping up the MSM propaganda if the guys in the gym this morning were anything to go by. The Sun's take, "Putin's Missile" plastered across the front cover (all relevant details downloaded straight from the Foreign Office no doubt). How can anyone know anything for sure about this before the investigation? I need to leave this pile of shit of a country.
For a change, NPR here in the States is not yet blaming Putin personally. Seems there is too much dust still in the air for them to blame anybody but the separatists. For now.
They're probably too busy booking all the "experts" (Pentagon folks). NPR lulls people in thinking that they're actually going to get the "other side of the story" and then slowly turns in all 180 degrees.
LEAVE IT BEHIND - it is bad for mental health to be in UK
Before you leave would you be so kind as to unplug the BBC's power cord?
Did any one bother to notice that Ukraine owns and operates said Russian made BUK SAM system?
and sold three units to Georgia so they could down 3 Su25s. I bet Ukraine built parts of the BUK inside the USSR. Probably old hat for Russian forces which i bet have SA-400 deployed on their Western border to keep track on NATO warplanes from Lithuiania and Turkey. Then again the Aegis warships are designed to track missiles
According to Wikipedia, Ukraine is one of a long list of nations that bought those missiles from Russia. And it was a Ukraine BUK array that was captured by the separatists in late June.
Now the separatists admit they captured one but it was damaged and not working. Hmmmm . . .
The BUK was probably MADE in Ukraine as that is where Soviet missiles were built - BUK is a 3/4 component system and I doubt the rebels had the components working though Russia says Ukrainian Government farcoes did have radar painting aircraft when the plane was hit
If you read Wikipedia article about BUK, why don't you mention, that this is not an autonomous system, but consists of a dedicated radar vehicle, therefore has a separated crew, highly specialized and well trained?
Training for the system around 6 months.
It's absolutely ridiculous to claim this was captured by rebels and used.
That such claims are spread and the NATO stays silent, already says everything.
Additionally such systems are always integrated into higher echelon and command and control chains: The danger to hit something else, if you shoot with a cannon on the neighbour's dog running by, should not be to complicated to understand even for laymen.
It's time for another epic fail from Colin Powell in front of the UN. Don't think about it Colin, just read the script.
I can't believe anything that the U.S. gubment says anymore. When was the last time this administration, or the previous 2 or 3, told the truth about anything? Yeah, it's been a while. Notice the difference in tone? the Russians/Putin are always calm and reasoned while the U.S. speakers are all on about sanctions and hysterical accusations of wrong-doing with the grace and dignity of an ex-wife in divorce court. That should tell you who the desparate men taking desparate measures are. Yes, the men that are losing their "petrodollar" advantage and whose privilege of printing wealth out of thin air will disappear when they lose reserve currency status. The Russians and Chinese are calm because they know they have the west by the snarglies and all they have to do is wait while the west hangs itself with its own rope. They don't need to shoot down planes or even back the Ukraine separatists. They just stall for time, do the rope-a-dope, and entertain themselves with the American circus. btw, some coincidence this happens not two days after the BRICS form thier own little IMF? is it just me?
NASDAQ up 1%, DOW up .5%. Buy the fucking flaming wreckage.
False Flag CIA stink all over this MH17 plane
The first Malasyian plane had 20 specialists on board for stealth technology.
This one had 100+ Aussi AIDS specialists on board.
Qui Bono on this incident?
Russians - no
USA - yes
Media Blame - the Russians
Ergo: USA did it.
Easy to figure it out! Call the NSA. They tape, eavesdrop, & video everything legally and illegally! They'll tell u 4 sure!
Please go back and EDIT your first posts and delete all the blank lines...
Easy to figure it out! Call the NSA. They tape, eavesdrop, & video everything legally and illegally! They'll tell u 4 sure!
I think this sums up our concrete knowledge of this event quite nicely.
Stop posting until you figure out what's wrong with your computer.
You had me at posting.
Like yesterday on this story, near impossible to post. Are any of you also having trouble posting, or is it only if your post contains anything that wouldn't be seen watching MSMedia
I'm interested to know if this has changed. Early reports said 23 passengars were American and 9 from UK
Reuters is reporting that the dead includes 23 United States citizens
23 US on board? Holy shit! The families will be demanding war. McCain will stage a coup in Washington. Neocons will set up a Euro Maidan on the Rose Garden. Once the McCainites gain power world war three will be "a go".
the families are probably all foreign & dont speak English
Malasia Air's statements do not even mention US passengers.
3. Nationalities
Following this afternoon’s press conference, Malaysia Airlines can confirm that a further 16 passengers’ nationalities have been verified. The latest breakdown of nationalities of those on board the flight is as follows:
· 189 Netherlands
· 44 Malaysia
· 27 Australia
· 12 Indonensia
· 9 UK
· 4 Belgium
· 4 Germany
· 3 Philippines
· 1 Canada
· 1 New Zealand
Four passengers’ nationalities remain to be verified.
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html
That link also has the cargo manifest. Some stand outs:
1 Live Dog
1 Shipment of Pot
1 Used Household
1 Diplomatic Mail
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH...
And of the 23 how many were immigrants under surveillance?
How come the NSA didn't prevent this?
MH17 shot down by Ukraine
Data from Flightradar24.com reveals the Copenhagen to Singapore flight was in airspace above the dangerous Donetsk region just two minutes before the attack.
latest:
http://tersee.com/#!q=mh17&t=text
MH17 shot down by Ukraine
Data from Flightradar24.com reveals the Copenhagen to Singapore flight was in airspace above the dangerous Donetsk region just two minutes before the attack.
latest:
http://tersee.com/#!q=mh17&t=text
Everyone here is rushing to judgment without a shred of evidence. Just like sheep in the war between Eurasia and Eastasia... or is it Oceania? I can't remember...
I know the court of public opinion is swift and brutal, but calm the fuck down already. Russia and U.S. are in an all propaganda battle royale. Besides the victims, the other casualty in this grotesque display of warring superstates is the truth.
Will truth ever come out? The USA and Russia have so much at stake here that one or the other will lie and sabotage any truth if it proves to not favor them. Any evidence like Black box, radar tracks etc, will be claimed as faked and false by whichever side does not get the result they want. Governments are liars, and they seek to use this incident for power to make war and make money for their friends.
Bingo. People here should be more reserved about this until further information comes out, and even then, it might never become fully clear given the interests at stake. Usually this site is great because it cuts through the pro-American / pro-Russian BS, but since this crash it has stepped completely into the pro-Russian buffalo chips. ZH will be ignoring anything to the contrary of the Kremlin's narrative at this point.