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Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet
Earlier, when we commented in the abnormality in the flight path of flight MH-17 we said that "perhaps before coming to "certain" conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion?"
The simple answer would have come if Ukraine had merely released the Air Traffic Control recording from the tower and flight MH 17, something Malaysia did in the aftermath of the disappearance of flight MH 370, which at last check has still not been uncovered.
It now appears that answer will not be forthcoming because as the BBC reports "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency."
What happens to the recordings next is completely unknown. What is known is that any hope of getting an undoctored explanation why the plane flew as it did, or what the pilots may have seen or said in the moments before the explosion, is forever gone.
It also means that any hope of actually working with facts instead of emotional appeals, and getting to the bottom of the Malaysian airline tragedy, resides in what may be recorded by the black box, whose location right now is now exactly clear. From the Independent:
"Ukraine's emergency services have found two black boxes at the crash site of the downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, the governor of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region has been quoted as saying.
"Two black boxes were found by our emergency services. I have no information on where these boxes are at the moment," Kostyantyn Batovsky told the Interfax-Ukraine news agency.
Pro-Russian separatists in the region said on Thursday they had found one black box when the Malaysian airliner came down between Krasni Luch in Luhansk region and Shakhtarsk in the neighbouring region of Donetsk.
The Interfax-Ukraine news agency had claimed the first black box has been sent to Moscow for analysis, the BBC reported. The news agency now reports a second black box has been recovered at the crash site.
Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has been quoted as saying Russia does not plan to take the "black box" flight recorders from downed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in territory held by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine,
However, separatist leader Aleksandr Borodai told the Associated Press: "No black boxes have been found ... We hope that experts will track them down and create a picture of what has happened."
A spokesman for the Emergencies Ministry in Kiev declined to comment on the report.
In other words, even more fact-free confusion and speculation which is just what a propaganda-based reporting system needs.
And so, just like in the case of flight MH-370, what actually happened with MH-17 may never be known.
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Do you wrestle or are you into MMA? Is that why you call yourself Dumpling Ears? I guess Cauliflower Ear has fallen from common usage.
Baseless?! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. There are decades upon decades of elements of the State trying to fool the masses. I like this site because the "speculation" is not baseless and it agrees with my view of our present situation. We speculate because we can't sit in on meetings with Cheney, Rummy, Obummer, Bush family members, Pentagon, Fed, and on and on.
I don't think we would understand them anyway - Reptiloids speak in hisses and clicks.
I'm pretty sure Dope-n-Strange can just make a call from the 9th hole to "make it perfectly clear, making no mistake, as president, that the flight recorders be sent immediately to any of the partners involved in this tragedy."
See? Easy.
Nudleman caught setting up coup "Missing Plane"
Israeli invasion of Gaza, 15 min later "Plane Shot Down"
Plane shoot down: approximately 14:15 UTC. Israeli assault on Gaza: 14:00 UTC.
To prove that theory we need look at who shorted the airline and when. Then one may want to check the tail number and see if the paint is still curing.
here is my best guess as to what went down...
Kiev posts an air defense battery in the area because Moscow has threatened airstrikes and cruise missile attacks after a series of cross border shellings, one of which killed a Russian civilian making this an extremely high tension situation and a disaster waiting to happen.
for reasons unknown, intentionally or unintentionally putting the aircraft in danger, Kiev flight control orders the 777 to change it's flight path over Donetsk, an area where most airlines have been avoiding. at which point the BUK's radar detects an aircraft flying over what is supposed to be restricted airspace and without using proper IFF procedure, again intentionally or unintentionally, fires on the civilian aircraft shooting it down.
then the propaganda machine swings into action like always, without providing any proof or evidence blames the eastern separatists and Russia despite the glaring fact that neither would gain anything by committing this act and stand to lose a great deal if this farce is accepted as fact and goes unchallenged.
the only real mystery to be solved, as I see it, is did the Ukrainian military intentionally shoot down the 777, or was it truly an accident and a case of "never let a crises go to waste" ?
Reasonable EXCEPT you've stated we should discount Separatists firing because they have nothing to gain, but we should ACCEPT that Kiev possibly fired by accident.
Why?
Aren't the Separatists and Kiev Equally able to fire accidentally?
In point of fact, Kiev still has access to all the early warning radar that would tell them it was a civilian airliner... but the Separatists have admitted they lost those feeds in recent fighting.
Why do people think this has anything to do with the legitimacy of the Separatist cause?
Why do people think this can end the Separatist cause?
Why do people imagine the NATO countries would commit their nations to war over this?
All evidence points to an accidental firing, and EVERYONE trying to "never let a crisis go to waste".
Pity is that they all seem to think expanding hostility is the only way to 'not waste' the crises.
Send Boeing and Antonov in a joint investigation team, do it successfully, and you'll mend a lot of fences.
If the 'seperatists' had the type of missiles and launcher allegded to be used here. They would have used it already on Ukraine or targets in Eastern Ukraine by now.
I'm still hanging in there with your theory.
"Aren't the Separatists and Kiev Equally able to fire accidentally?"
Yes, and no one can claim otherwise. Shit, it was several months ago (sometime this year I believe) that someone in a naval yard in Britain launched a torpedo into a dock (naval?); fortunately it wasn't armed. The POINT is that accidents are happening a LOT more than we think. This does not, however, get fact status in this airline incident: it's a contender.
Flight plans are downloaded prior to take off. I have been delayed because of errors. The captain of the plane explained over intercom. This has happened 3 or 4 times in my experience.
The same inteliigence service closely cooperating with the CIA.
Trust me--all the evidence is buried under Building No 7
so the BBC is cooperating with the CIA
The other way around, American cousin.
I would have to venture that cooperation is a two way street. Other than that it is more of a master/servant game.
Both are cooperating. Neither is Master or Servant.
In late breaking news, Obama shits a turd from his mouth, MSM declares the 3 second rule and eats up the bowl movement.
This whole thing is highlighting how worthless US journalism has become.
We're well into the "we're never going to get to the bottom of this" territory.
Maybe someone can speculate up a motive while they're all pulling things out of their collective asses.
People won't be able to handle the truth: we've run out of ability to perpetually grow, and seeing as our entire existence has been predicated on this flawed premise and we're going to all turn on one-another, well, we keep reading the fiction hoping that we'll just quietly go to sleep (forever) rather than do the burning in hell part... Personal translation: I'm really torn as to whether knowing is a good thing; as a "Seer" I can really only see the general plot, I don't see the details, even what is to become of myself (other than the fact that eventually my survival rate drops to zero).
They'll prbably have a computer crash that erases the whole thing....that seems to be going around.
Check with the NSA - maybe they have the info. They listen to everything else, why not this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696847/They-shouldnt-f-g-flying-There-war-going-Ukraine-intelligence-officials-release-phone-calls-claim-PROVES-Russia-shot-Flight-MH17.html
Another perspective obviously in stark contrast to the Ukraine/US Axis of Evil theories being promoted here as gospel. I'm deeply hostile toward my own country and the other puppet masters who clearly have a wider agenda in the Ukraine and elsewhere but sometimes ZH just digs in its heels making it no different than Obama, Cameron or anyone else who is "convinced" that Russia is responsible. ZH is equally intent on convincing us that Russia or Russian separatists could not have done this and that's just fucking foolhardy.....
FUCK British tabloids!
As stated above, flight plans are downloaded to the plane. Black box leaves forensic evidence.
Please, enlighten us with a motive for shooting down an aircraft over restricted airspace.
Create a boost in GDP to offset lower expectations.
Why does there necessarily have to be a motive? Ever heard of accidents? Think there aren't poorly trained, poorly disciplined morons manning these things, particularly among "separatists"? Drunk and possibly trigger happy? How many jets/planes did these clowns shoot down in the last week? No, inconceivable that they painted yet another jet and decided to blow anything with wings out of the sky. Yeah, it was obviously the Ukranians shooting it down to incur the wrath of Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. Makes fucking sense. lol
Here's the problem: an accident is the last thing that can be assumed here. It's literally the final thing you can conclude once you've ruled out everything else. People don't otherwise shoot civilian aircraft out of the sky even in a war zone. The last thing you can conclude is the someone is a moron. And it's why you hear people say "you're either a genius or a moron, until you open your mouth". AND even if someone is a moron, you're probaly no smarter than they are.
This incident, if an accident, is not much unlike the USS Vincennes firing on a civilian Iranian passanger ariliner in the 1980s. The difference of course being that the Iranian passanger airliner was not in restricted airspace.
ZH did this like yesterday...man.
The separtists do not control the Air Traffic Control system of Ukraine.
The separtists do not control a radar/targeting system for the missles. It's not just a matter of lighting a fuse.
So that leaves us with Russia or Kiev.
Russia does not control the Ukraine ATC system either.
The only way the story works is if there were traitors in the Ukrainian ATC...German...Russian...Jewish traitors.
If you catch my drift. Perhaps tomorrow's episode.
I would actually find that quite impressive for Poroshenkowood...Triple citizen captured...what does it mean for us in the homeland....but i digress. (Yeah, just noticed they would be quadruple citizens)
Agreed - if not the Western Ukraine government - then a small faction of 'Western rebels' who want to provoke an escalation.
The separatists do not control a radar/targeting system for the missiles.
OK, thanks Comrade. Didn't realize you were manning a SAM battery in the Ukraine. ZH poster's word is good enough for me. Or was that Putin who told us that? lol
We need all recordings of Vicky Israel-First Nuland's phone calls.
Inmarsat to the rescue... again.
I would love to give equal footing to the Russians to explain their side, but I notice all the information being released suggesting Ukraine had something to do wtih this is always released by Interfax, citing "anonoymous sources", and never corroborated by any other media outlet. Considering that Interfax has been used for sperading false rumors and pro-Putin propaganda since the beginning of this mess in Ukraine, it really appears that the Russians really do have more hand in this tragedy then they are trying to make the world beleive. You fail Russia.
BBC quotes Interfax...Interfax Ukraine...they report everything pro-west...unless it involves Jimmy Saviles and Hagues pimping.
I am sure there is a Russian politcommissar in London checking the releases...not. Or is there ? Tell me more.
The problem with digital audio is that there is absolutely no way to prove if something was doctored or not; you can change timestamps, you can layer the ambient noise, you can match one voice to another etc, etc and there will be no perceptible cuts or crossfades. I mean any 10 year old can do it. Now that the Kiev's Nazis confiscated all recordings pertinent to this investigation, there will be zero chances to know the truth.
To borrow a phrase from McLuhan, in this case "the medium is the message". That fact that the Ukr. USB confiscated the tape is the smoking gun.
Yes, but will this end this part of the storyline...the Ukies deserve their own 9/11 level stage performance...but since they are bunch of Slavic squatters on Khazarian land, perhaps less.
Agreed. Anything digital can be modified with ease now to look or sound like whatever you want.
This is why witnesses are all the more important now.
" the Ukies deserve their own 9/11 level stage performance..."
Would they also have Dancing Israelis to film it while it happened as a training/documentary film?
Black box copy
Obama is a powerless cunt. He gets up every morning and is informed of what he will do and say by the real rulers of America. You think Obama commanders power inside the Pentagon, or CIA and NSA head offices? You think leaders of the Fed and major banks consider for a second Obama's leadership role? You think AIPAC and Israel need to lobby hard to get favorable treatment from Obama?
Obama does not even know what CIA is doing in Ukraine. He hasn't a clue what NSA does or whose files are on the top piles. The Pentagon tells Obama, Obama wouldn't dare enter that building and pretent to command it!
Where do people get off believing in Obama as president and powerful leaders. Just like Bush, the fucker does as he is told. Clinton? Same thing. Only Bush #I was even a bit of a leader, Why? Because he ran the CIA, that made him a real member of the ruling class. Obama and Bush #II were total outsides used as puppets.
You either sit in the Military Industrial Spy complex as a leader, or sit as head of major banks and the Fed, or are a top Israeli official,or are from the old monied classes of the east, or you are outside the ruling class. Obama is no more a ruler and leader than I am. Even Kennedy was not a leader, he tried to become one and had his brains blown out on national TV for his efforts. He crossed the Military Industrial Spy complex directly, they answered back with lighting speed.
Well said.
Obama has abdicated whatever popular influence he might have had. Ever since he was elected, he has willingly bowed down to every command of the financial and military elites.
Is there any proof for this assertion ?
Well, the fact no one was prosecuted for the greatest financial fraud ever committed in human history seems probative on the issue.
Uh, yeah, that could be because he influenced it so...
Because this is the way they think...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSPjhQQpqLE
Ok, some wealthy gentlemen decided to entrust the most powerful country on the globe to some Communist hangout, CIA-affiliated, Muslim sympathizing layabout...where's my movie.
The Problem is Americans are like Obama
They do what they are told
They cannot see and cannot think
America has been surrendered at least since the creation of the FED.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4n0J19yFMY
He told you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDe6QCqFu4c
I find it funny so many of you think the U.S. and Russia's interests in this matter are TOTALLY at odds with one another.
Tell me -- what position does Goldman take on this matter with respect to EACH of its "clients?" Anyone know someone who works at Goldman? Are they "concerned" war will break out between the two nations? Hahahahahaha yeah right.
Keep believing it's all Obama's fault, or it's all Putin's fault, or whatever version of The Daily Bullshit you subscribe to. There are two real "sides" to this: the people and the government. The "people," in this case, were brutally murdered by a thug that calls itself a "government." I hardly think "which" government did it is relevant in any way.
Most of us realize that, I think. It's just that we can't go through our whole belief system to explain one stinkin little comment. There may be a limit to the pull of the bankers though. With the movement out of the dollar by the east it could set up a little competition.
Both sides answer to the same people. Many here know that.
In this day in age operations in Russia could be shut down in a matter of days if the Banking establishment wanted to. It would be that simple.
Those at the very top of the ownership pyramid would never do that though. It would be like shooting themselves in the face.
I think the real point to take away from this is: does anyone feel safe on Malaysian airlines anymore? I mean, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
CIA airlines...transport valuables...until they don't.
BTW i don't believe they deserve to be their own country...even the Muslims in Thailand deserve more...Indonesia should annex the rest...and they stole a lot from the Philippines.
Such is the fate of American collaborator states.
Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot
Boeing's UpYours Autopilot
On their way to Tel Aviv for post-production editing.
This is the sort of situation in which control is illusory. The crisis surrounding the airliner crash in an illustration of this. It's likely more unpleasant surprises are going to happen.
Yet another opportunity to boil the west in their own bullshit.
Stock up on popcorn.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/17/sanctions-airliners-paul-craig-roberts/
http://www.corbettreport.com/how-to-steal-an-airplane-from-911-to-mh370/
http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/boeing-777-could-have-been-reprogrammed-from-the-ground/
I am confident that the tape will be a YouTube hit! It maybe 'slightly edited' when it appears but it will still be a big hit! "In war, truth is the first casualty."Aeschylus
Time to 'go long' on life insurance policies for anyone that was inside the ATC tower in Kiev...
KIEV'S/CIA FALSO FLAG:
EVIDENCE CONTINUES TO EMERGE
This is the most complete, point by point dissection of all available data
GEEZ, JUST LIKE THE IRS EMAILS AND HARD DRIVES.
Sorry, the discs failed in the solid-state drive...
Isn't this just the same plane that disappeared?
Well, strangely enough that can't be ruled out yet........
Recycling, it's good for everyone (except air passengers flying Malaysian Air [and Boeing, which only has one plane to replace instead of two])!
So now the the cover up of the crime begins.
"MH 17, descend to 30,000, change heading to 180, fly toward the trail of smoke snaking up from the ground. Do not change course...if you can slow to stall speed that would also be helpful..."
Someone should call Michael Savage.
Tell the little Israeli shill to go home.
Eurocontrol in Belgium has copies of all radio transmissions between the aircraft and ATC. One of the aircraft's recorders has voice recordings of whatever was said in the cockpit; the other has aircraft mechanical parameters.
Evidence to Frame Russia For MH17 Shoot Down Fabricated?
Time stamped day before plane crash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMgIpC-bCfQ#t=136
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1784.htm
Just posted by Saker (haven't had time to read it all yet)
Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag OperationLois Lerner being appointed as forensic cleaner, I mean examiner for flight MH 17...Nothing to find...hard drives crashed, all data is lost, and pleads 5th
It strains credulity to believe that pro-Russian separatists would shoot at an aircraft flying at 33,000 ft. and headed into Russia which is only 20 - 30 miles away.
This definitely does not pass the smell test ... unless you smell a rat.
RAT = CIA
Being it was a civilian aircraft in the first place, I don't think the shoot down had anything to do with what direction it was flying.
Someone saw a big target and pulled the trigger.
You were supposed to agree that the plane could not have been shot down by pro-Russian forces.
Shame on you., Joe. There will be no future career for you at RT News with that kind of attitude.
" confiscated recordings"
Well, the pertinent recording was "BOOM".
Daniel...errr, Tyler...there is little confusion here. The story is quite simple.
Your little green men shot down a civilian airliner. Now we are going to have to deal with these animals.
I'll wait for the ARD investigation. They are superior to any source.
Tatort. With reality like, man.
Given them to the Mossad . . . . I'm sure we'll get nothing but the truth that way.
The only thing i know for sure. Whatever i hear in the next few years about this will be wrong. Then one day there will be a 'it was all bullshit' documentary like Iraq, when its all too late to help.
TWA 800 is a good example.
Actually, the key question one should ask before casting blame is, "Who fired the missile"?
This is so creepy! The plane was full of dead bodies. Here is something straight from Strelkov
The whole Strelkov/dead bodies thing (via Gleb Bazov):
Igor Strelkov: According to the information received from the people who collected the corpses, a large number of the corpses are “not fresh” – these are people who died a few days ago. I cannot vouch for complete accuracy of this information – of course, we will have to wait for conclusions from forensic specialists.
- “Somebody of course must have been piloting this plane, which, to boot, would be impossible to leave. The theory that the plane was full of dead people is, of course, breathtaking; however, it does not seem to make sense.”
Igor Strelkov: First of all, not all the people in the plane were dead prior to the fall.
Second, a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.
Third, I do not insist on anything (for now). It’s just that only moments ago I spoke with two individuals who personally gathered the corpses after the crash (both of them are from Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene less than half an hour after the catastrophe). I am writing exactly what they told me. They emphasized that a large number of the corpses were “completely bloodless” – it’s as if their blood clotted long before the catastrophe. They also remarked that there was an overwhelming putrid corpse stench, which was also noted by many locals – a smell like that could not have formed in half an hour in any weather, let alone in the cloudy, temperate weather we had yesterday.
Fourth, while I am usually very suspicious of any “conspiracy theories” myself, but the 18 of our fighters that were poisoned with chemical weapons at their positions in Semyonovka, the executions of the militiamen’s family members and all other “small joys of Ukie patriots” have convinced me that the Ukrainian government is capable of any villainy.
The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive – the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.
I know why they did it this way. This is a brilliant way to accuse the other side of conspiracy and insanity.
medication and blood samples were probably on their way to the aids conference that some passengers were flying to.
We are quickly descending into a period of total chaos on a global basis - financially, economically, politically & militarily - fostered by significant efforts to hide, spin & otherwise distort reality & the facts to serve whatever vested interest(s) of the side you (or your bread) happens to be (buttered) on.
There are still a few with the courage to stand for truth with conviction, but they are (intentionally?) drowned out by the cacaphony of mindless voices & written words...
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
https://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/was-crashed-malays...
Malaysian air BHD is trading at $.18 per-share. Probably still a bad price.
Yes but is flight MH17 Flight 370? (One source says same kinda plane Boeing 777-200ER)http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76348000/jpg/_76348113_malaysian_a...
Waste not want not.
Already dead bodies on board?
Aids folks accounts for medical supplies though.
So we have this plane full of dead people and we want to stage a false flag...relable the plane get a few countries on board...trigger a hacked BUK...or you have a spy infiltrated...
Why not? No crazier that the rest of the B.S. out there. 'Bama knew exactly what happened real time, hence so nonchalant. How many 'mericans on board. One eh?
American count, none, 33,22, one.
The more absurd the more likely angle.
MH-17 was moving at 30,000 to 33,000 feet (depending on which report) at somewhere near 600 mph meaning a mile every six seconds. It would have been over Russia in two to three minutes had it not been shot down.
It makes no tactical or strategic sense whatsoever for the rebels to shoot down a large jet airplane heading directly to Russian airspace. If it was an "unfriendly," the Russians could have easily dealt with it. For this reason alone the most likely cause of the disaster is that the Ukraine military shot it down. It wouldn't be the first time they shot down a civilian passenger plane. They got away with it then and they'll probably get away with it this time, too.
They have repeated a thousand times that the plane was following the same course that several other airlines had been flying for some time. Yet not once have I heard anyone ask, why now? Why have there been countless other planes flying at the same elevation and on the same route not been shot at? Something stinks.. I wonder if we'll see something like this in a short while, only over a syrian territory, and using US equipment?
The world has gone full retard.
"Why have there been countless other planes flying at the same elevation and on the same route not been shot at?"
MH17 was flying lower.
It was on a DIFFERENT course than ten previous flights, which flew a long way South of the combat area.
The CIA book?
The video tape from a gasoline station close to Pentagon, has been confiscated as well. And not released until today.
Oops, sorry, those recordings disappeared. We're sure you'll understand. Because we remember you had the same problem with missing IRS emails. Happens all the time comrades.
OMG, next thing we know, USA will be demanding flight information from Kiev.
Sarc
The most likely explanation is the rebels shot it down thinking it was another Antonov military transport plane. The question is *why* would they think that; was it a simple mistake or was the air liner set up to look like a military target. For example there were early reports about two jet fighters flying behind MH17 - do the Antonov supply planes usually have a fighter escort?
Do you know anything about the BUK SAM Systems. Hint they are nothing like a weapon anyone can acquire and learn to use in a few hours.
They involve 4-5 vehicles, i.e, launch, supply. radar, radio and command, operated by 15-17 highly trained crew members - btw they are one of few SAMs which can down an aircraft flying at 30,000+ feet. Not the sort of system the Donbass defence forces could use, even if they'd managed to capture a complete system from the Junta forces.
Reportedly the Junta had deployed BUKs near Donesk, so think on that.
A story
.
1) Ukraine has air superiorty
2) Putin sends SAMs to help the rebels and they shoot down a number of Ukraine military aircraft in the last week or so
3) Ukraine loses air superiorty
4) MH17 set up to look like a military flight
5) MH17 shot down and the backlash causes the Russian SAMs to be withdrawn
6) Ukraine gets air superiorty back
#4 makes Kiev guilty of this crime.
Putin-bots are having a tough time fielding this one. Russian separatists don't know where the black box is... Russia claims separatists have it. Sure, OK. All the RTs in the world aren't going to save Russia's reputation after this. Putin already killed his country's economy, and now he's killing innocent people. Whoops, looks like we backed the wrong horse there for a moment ZH.
Zioqueers scrambling as the world has figured out their scam.
Ah, I see Fox and Friend's #1 viewer has weighed in. Have they given you ONE good reason why Putin would do this? One example of what he would gain by shooting down a commercial plane? Keep watching your moronic pop culture TV and let us know when they give you an answer.
please gentlemen enough already
enuff of dis discourse.
this is not a jewish matter.
it does not represent jewish values.
this in know way is time or numerology based.
as far as cuntish kosher kabbalism goes this was not a blood ritual.
how the god satans hell could it be about the blood?
the 4 month old stiffs had been blood drained during live diego garcia torture as per standard cannanite vampyre practice.
poor israel does not have the resources too pull off a psyop in ukraine 15 mins after palestine defensive invasion.
this crash is a local matter and a matter for the malaysian evil doers who found bush and blair guilty of war crimes.
Where in da world is da evil twin to da MA-370 flight that was being prepped for such an occassion in Satan's lair Is-it-real?
Tony? Does it ever get old?
Worth posting again given that we've seen this played out many times before from leaders who never apologized
From the pages of our past rearing it''s butt ugly head too many times to count.
An ex-CIA spokesman who lived through that lie and kept his badge for 10 more years to collect his pension tells an ugly truth about a similar incident in 1983.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/u-s-government-lied-accidental-shootdown-commercial-plane-3-decades-ago.html
until hard evidence turns up to prove otherwise, it's reasonable to assume this was a US false flag.
The US has a solid and consistant history of using false flags (with accompanying propaganda frenzy) as a means of salvaging situations that aren't going as expected. This is yet another. (.. unless proven otherwise by *hard* independently verifiable evidence)
Here's a hint. If you want to anticipate what actions the US leadership might take, just ask yourself "What would the Mafia do?"
I've never met a conspiracy I didn't like. If I'm all wet, not much harm since the conspirators always Goebbels-ize and dismiss even the legitimate conspiracy disclosures. The sheeple lap up the shit as it drips down from their foreheads.
The latest conspiracy I heard is the PTB in Monsanto and Big Pharma are colluding to stop meaningful AIDS progress because the money is too massive to give up. Between the two of these evil empires, the dream of genocide for destroyers of Mother Gaia, population problem, is being fulfilled by the social engineering statists. One missile, one more Malaysian Airline plane shot down, the world renowned researchers gone in a poof of smoke.
My odds? About 0.1 %, I'd say! but that's about 15,000 times the lotto odds.
I fiind it plausible that the rebels shot down the plane, but so far I've seen no direct evidence, only inferences. What interests me on the other side is the supposed post-dating of the supposed conversation between rebels discussing the downing of the airplane. If it is true that the recording is post-dated, that would seem to be a strong indication of Ukrainian involvment, though not necessarily conclusive proof of guilt.
Personally, at this point, I simply don't know what actually happened.
As for the chaos and intimidation at the scene - that I will believe.
The above article is dated " 07-19-2014 20:45" yet more than the half of the comments are dated friday 18th. ? ? ?
They are ALL a bunch of drunks over there.
Hey now! These little Green Men from Russia are "green" in every way imaginable.
Putin's Drunks-with-Guns Army of Russian SCUMBAGS is securing the site so that all the belongings of those dead passengers don't go to waste. Call it "recycling".
And the necrophilia surely has some other rational explanation.