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U.S. Government Lied to Pretend that Accidental Russian Shootdown of Commercial Plane Was Intentional … Three Decades Ago
We noted yesterday that Ukraine, Russia, the U.S., Israel and China have all accidentally shot down commercial airplanes.
Ray McGovern – a 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their vice presidents, secretaries of state, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials – provides vital details on an accidental shootdown by Russia – and America’s disinformation campaign to make it look intentional – 3 decades ago:
The U.S. press might pause to recall how it’s been manipulated by the U.S. government in the past, including three decades ago by the Reagan administration twisting the facts of the KAL-007 tragedy.
In that case, a Soviet fighter jet shot down a Korean Air Line plane on Sept. 1, 1983, after it strayed hundreds of miles off course and penetrated some of the Soviet Union’s most sensitive airspace over military facilities in Kamchatka and Sakhalin Island.
Over Sakhalin, KAL-007 was finally intercepted by a Soviet Sukhoi-15 fighter. The Soviet pilot tried to signal the plane to land, but the KAL pilots did not respond to the repeated warnings. Amid confusion about the plane’s identity — a U.S. spy plane had been in the vicinity hours earlier — Soviet ground control ordered the pilot to fire. He did, blasting the plane out of the sky and killing all 269 people on board.
The Soviets soon realized they had made a horrendous mistake. U.S. intelligence also knew from sensitive intercepts that the tragedy had resulted from a blunder, not from a willful act of murder ….
But a Soviet admission of a tragic blunder regarding KAL-007 wasn’t good enough for the Reagan administration, which saw the incident as a propaganda windfall. At the time, the felt imperative in Washington was to blacken the Soviet Union in the cause of Cold War propaganda and to escalate tensions with Moscow.
Falsifying the Case
To make the very blackest case against Moscow, the Reagan administration suppressed the exculpatory evidence from the U.S. electronic intercepts. The U.S. mantra became “the deliberate downing of a civilian passenger plane.” Newsweek ran a cover emblazoned with the headline “Murder in the Sky.”
“The Reagan administration’s spin machine began cranking up,” wrote Alvin A. Snyder, then-director of the U.S. Information Agency’s television and film division, in his 1995 book, Warriors of Disinformation.
USIA Director Charles Z. Wick “ordered his top agency aides to form a special task force to devise ways of playing the story overseas. The objective, quite simply, was to heap as much abuse on the Soviet Union as possible,” Snyder recalled.
Snyder noted that “the American media swallowed the U.S. government line without reservation. Said the venerable Ted Koppel on the ABC News ‘Nightline’ program: ‘This has been one of those occasions when there is very little difference between what is churned out by the U.S. government propaganda organs and by the commercial broadcasting networks.’”
On Sept. 6, 1983, the Reagan administration went so far as to present a doctored transcript of the intercepts to the United Nations Security Council (a prelude to a similar false presentation two decades later by Secretary of State Colin Powell on Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction).
“The tape was supposed to run 50 minutes,” Snyder said about recorded Soviet intercepts. “But the tape segment we [at USIA] had ran only eight minutes and 32 seconds. … ‘Do I detect the fine hand of [Richard Nixon's secretary] Rosemary Woods here?’ I asked sarcastically.’”
But Snyder had a job to do: producing the video that his superiors wanted. “The perception we wanted to convey was that the Soviet Union had cold-bloodedly carried out a barbaric act,” Snyder wrote.
Only a decade later, when Snyder saw the complete transcripts — including the portions that the Reagan administration had hidden — would he fully realize how many of the central elements of the U.S. presentation were false.
The Soviet fighter pilot apparently did believe he was pursuing a U.S. spy plane, according to the intercepts, and he was having trouble in the dark identifying the plane. At the instructions of Soviet ground controllers, the pilot had circled the KAL airliner and tilted his wings to force the aircraft down. The pilot said he fired warning shots, too. “This comment was also not on the tape we were provided,” Snyder wrote.
It was clear to Snyder that in the pursuit of its Cold War aims, the Reagan administration had presented false accusations to the United Nations, as well as to the people of the United States and the world. To these Republicans, the ends of smearing the Soviets had justified the means of falsifying the historical record.
In his book, Snyder acknowledged his role in the deception and drew an ironic lesson from the incident. The senior USIA official wrote, “The moral of the story is that all governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes. The key is to lie first.”
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Stumpy, I have also written these articles recently:
And I have posted these articles on my website by guest authors:
I've also tried to explain background to Americas:
Wanna know a secret? I'll tell you my REAL agenda ...
I'm an American (born here, raised here, lived here my whole life, love my country ... at least the country that the Founding Fathers envisioned).
Top financial analysts have predicted WW3; war is horrible for the economy; and the Founding Fathers said that prolonged warfare shreds democracy/republican government.
For those reasons, I write to try to diffuse pro-war propaganda.
Get it?
I get that you're a traitor and little else, except maybe sschizophrenic.
Hey GW,
I note the "tag team" Troll sequence attack on you/your piece:
Stumpy4516
mjcOH1
SurlysonofaBitch
conscious being
Tall Tom
You and ZH must be upsetting a few people in the "establishment"
You confuse me Bingo Hammer:
I have pointed out on several of his articles that George Washington is all of the sudden posting articles (really trash articles) that mimic the "establishments" mantra that Russia is to be blamed for the false flag act (George tries to ease you into it by insinuating Russia did it but it was an accident). And point out how someone has instructed him to stay at it, as he is a resource of theirs.
And somehow you twist that into I am the one working for the "establishment". Well, actually you do not confuse me. You are I thnk the third to make those reverse claims that I am Establishment/CIA type for showing George is just publishing a version of the MSM/US story line. Which is a classic move, accuse the people who are caling out someone like George Washington for carrying the water of disinformation and psyopps in support of the US and MSM mantra of "It's all Russia"s fault (but maybe an accident but still Russia's action) and claim those who are calling out people llike ol George are the agents. That works well with the msm crowd.
Really? :) I'm pretty clear about you though...
Guess who just happened to be running a "drill" in the area of Donetsk when the flight went down...3,2,1 yup you guessed it the good old USofA had AWACS aircraft involved in a drill called "Breeze 2014" which finished just after the plane went down....hmmm???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KezfJV8ghc
Fuck Off BingoHammer.
I'm a big fan of GW and I still will be, even if I have an issue with one of his posts. I think Stumpy nailed it when he said the real signifigance of the KAL007 shoot down and this MH17 shootdown is that the USA / USA shadow government will put a commercial airliner in harms way to score geo-political points.
George missed that aspect. Everybody can't know everything.
On a positive note, the fact that GW is making the link between the two events might cause the PTB to back off on pushing their false-flag because they would prefer not to have the public looking into and discussing what really was going on with KAL007. For example, the pilot was one of the top pilots for the airline. He flew the president around. How did he get 100s of miles off course, over Soviet air space??
Back in the day when Larry McDonald was claiming a socialist plot to install a new world order, it was easy to dismiss him as a kook. Now, not so much.
Thanks for all you do GW.
Your comment was supporting the conga line thread of the trolls CB, sorry to hurt your feelings sweetheart I promise to be nicer next time...in the mean time chew on this new info...
Guess who just happened to be running a "drill" in the area of Donetsk when the flight went down...3,2,1 yup you guessed it the good old USofA had AWACS aircraft involved in a drill called "Breeze 2014" which finished just after the plane went down....hmmm???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KezfJV8ghc
The whole thing stinks like a Boston Marathon Bombing or a 9/11 dance party.
Bugger Off Bingohammer.
GW does a bang on job,no one is omniscient.
Sorry to inform you "oudinot" that when you named your avatar you mispelled it you "idiot" - there, fixed it for you :)
ps I was supporting GW, not criticising him - now fuck off you stupid POM
You need to add an article on the technicals - ranges and math - of the BUK system.
If pro-Russian rebels used a captured Ukranian BUK (or a secret system smuggled in from Russia) and fired it from any of the rebel-controlled areas, then MH17 would have been hit, and the wreckage would have traveled far beyond the region it was found.
A BUK M1-2 TELAR (Transport Erect Launch Aquisiton Radar) unit by itself (without the big radar-only truck) can only begin to acquire an approaching target at a range of maybe 15km or so. MH17 would be approaching the launcher at a lateral closing speed of one kilometer every four seconds. That means, at best, the TELAR might begin to see MH17 approaching at 60 seconds out. Let's say it took fifteen seconds to somehow decide it was something they wanted to shoot down and launched a missile. Fifteen more seconds after launch for the missile to travel to and hit the plane. At that time, the MH17 would have been only seven or eight kilometers in front of the launcher, but ten kilometers high and still traveling forward (until hit) at a kilometer every four seconds. It would take well over three minutes for the heaviest pieces to hit the ground, and they would have done that several kilometers beyond the launcher - much further toward the Russian border.
For the wreckage to land where it did, an oncomming plane would have to have been hit by a missile while it was still about 22 or so km away. Twenty seconds for missle flight time to be there means it would have to be launched while the plane was still 27 km away. It would still take a while to be acquired by the radar and identified as 'unfriendly', so you're talking more like 30km+.
30+km is within the capability of a fully-deployed BUK battery with all the TEL and TELAR missile launchers communicating wtih a M1-1 Kupol (Tube Arm/Snow Drift) search and acquisition radar vehicle. Trouble is that the seperatist militia didn't capture an entire battery - they jsut got a couple of TELAR trucks. The TELAR units only have a much smaller Fire Dome radar to use (the bump under the missles). That means, under the most ideal conditions, they would have engaged and hit a approaching target that was a few km, not 30km away. The wreckage from a commercial airliner hit a few km in front of the TELAR would be found a dozen kilometers further downrange.
The destruction of MH-17 happened at a point well beyond the range of any separatist captured BUK TELAR units when you consider the additional acquisition, launch and missile flight times (not simply the stated raw BUK ranges). A BUK TELAR vehicle, by itself, could have shot down MH17, but it would have to have been 10km further into Ukrainian-held territory.
There's people that do a lot better job of explaining the dynamics of a BUK system and can give more precise numbers, but it makes sense at face value. You simply can't shoot down an approaching jet aircraft that far out without the half-dozen or so vehicles working together as a minimum, complete SAM battery. You can't even see the aircraft that far out without a dedicated Kupol search and acquisition radar.
Paveway: Interesting argument. Thanks.
Why can't we have MSM like Paveway trying to figure this mess out than air brushed, brain dead media?
Stumpy agree with your post. About KAL007
There was an anti-NWO congress person on KAL007. I think a senator.
The guidance system, giving the route across the Pacific was fiddelled (sp) with.
One school of thought says the plane was intentionally redirected onto a death route to kill the senator. Will look for more. George W. - for the first time in history, I have to vote one of your pieces less than excellent because you left this important KAL007 info out. It changes the meme.
I must be getting old indeed if I'm the only one here who remembers this.
Congressman Larry McDonald."The fact that McDonald was the only member of the 36 member of the US deligation to fly alone seeme strange.
Representative (and rabble rousing conservative southern Dem) Larry McDonald - Jesse Helms asked him to come over to KAL 015...he decided to stay on 007. While Buddy Darden replaced him, a bastardized district later went to??? Newt Gingrich...PS That is not to suggest that Mcdonald was in any way a target of the flight. As I mention in later comments, best book I have read is "Incident at Sakhalin" on this matter. Written a long time ago in relative terms.
Yeah, I'm sure that's what happened. Is this the account from Jessie's memoirs? "I told him to get on the plane with the rest of us, but he refused."
I read a creepy account where Jessie talked about the children in the Alaska passenger lounge hugging him with their little arms around his neck [his words]. All going to S. Korea, like Jessie, but on different flights. Was he bothered, his consience that is, by his foreknowledge? Jessie led a campaign on behalf of the KLA007 relatives, to get to the bottom of what happened. Obviously, that didn't go any where.
The details of KAL007 slip me a lot now. But, instead of having someone like George Washington using KAL007 as evidence of this being an "accident" and being shot down by Russia it makes much more sense for it to be used a evidence the US will take down an airliner.
The vague things I recall were that McDonald was a thorn in their side and was making noise, he did get segregated and fly alone (I do not recall the excuses for that), there was no excuse for the plane to that far off course and the conclusion by many was that the navigation system was tamper with, It was flying into a sensitive area, the plane failed to respond to Russian hailing it and kept on it's course, I do not recall if it was a ground missle or jet that took it down, also if a jet I do not recall if the jet made visual contact with the cockpit of the airlines to report if there was activity of those people.
Then you have the 007 number. Combine that with the lies that the US did not track MH370 on military radar, the claimed accident for the airliner shot down by the US navy being suspect to say the least and now this airliner being forced to fly a route no other commercial airliner flew and of course those stupid number things again.
Way too many coincidences that line up to me.
So you all seem to have forgotten that Space Shuttle Challenger was in orbit at the time. In fact, coincidentally, Challenger was directly 200 miles overhead, traveling at 18,500 mph, at the time that the Spy Plane and KAL 007 were in the air in the same vincinty. That Shuttle was not there for long but it was there, it was a coincidence, and Shuttle crews were known to conduct Military Operations.
I am disappointed in YOU, Concious Being, and George Washington for failing to remember and report this information because everything must be absolutely EXHAUSTIVE, right?
/sarcasm
You ought to fucking look in the mirror before you begin to criticize.
People are flawed...including you.
It was an ACCIDENT. They make mistakes too. Thank God that your oversights and mistakes are not fatal to someone else. Living with yourself afterwaeds is a bitch when it happens...as in an auto accident.
That is...if you have a heart.
This is tripe. If you shoot down the plane then admit it. Other people may try to use the mistake to their advantage as they should. The lesson: Don't make mistakes. ZH seems to be trying to say the lesson is to lie about your mistakes because other people may judge you. I've got news, lying about it will be judged much more harshly than the actual mistake made. This ZH logic is so stupid.
"If you shoot down the plane then admit it. Other people may try to use the mistake to their advantage as they should. The lesson: Don't make mistakes."
Exactly.
The fact of the matter is, the Soviets did indeed shoot it down. They said initially that they didn't, a lie. Then they said it was on a spy mission (a passenger jet-spy mission...lol) another lie, compounding the first.
This is a long stretch GW, sane people don't shoot at unidentified outlines in the room at night, it could be one of your family...OR...a burglar.
If you break into my house at night and I shoot you dead, YOU deserve it.
You would be entirely to blame, as was KAL-700.
No amount of weasel-word shit can change that.
Legally you have to give the intruder a chance to retreat from your house unless you fear for the safety of your life, which, of course, you always will.
Legally, sport...it depends on your state laws. The Castle doctrine is not active in all states. If you are a gun owner, you damn well better know those for your state by heart.
Once they are actually in the house, legally a home owner/occupant is under no such obligation. To do otherwise would to subject the rightful occupants to greater risk and only a fool or very unusual circumstances would justify 'give em a chance'.
America vs. UK discussion.
Screw legally.
Far better to take his genes out of the gene pool.
So, you're saying whoever shot down KAL007 or MH17 over Ukraine is justified?
Under the circumstances, KAL 007, yes. Don't know enough about what happened to MH 17.
The US would react no differently.
Ok, I know we've had our differences of late but theres no reason to take leave of your senses, its all right there...
"The Soviet fighter pilot apparently did believe he was pursuing a U.S. spy plane, according to the intercepts, and he was having trouble in the dark identifying the plane. At the instructions of Soviet ground controllers, the pilot had circled the KAL airliner and tilted his wings to force the aircraft down. The pilot said he fired warning shots, too. “This comment was also not on the tape we were provided,” Snyder wrote.
He circled it (so he must have saw something, the commercial under carriage/fin lights, an outline, something besides a radar blip) even fired warning shots.
Spy planes are dark, no lights, for obvious reasons.
So you're in the habit of shooting out of state relatives with flashlights under their chins for a "surprise"?
Probably going to distress your kids who opened the door for them ;-)
For a very good and well researched KAL 007 (that pesky 7 showing itself for the numerologists...) book for those interested from the late 90's - "Incident at Sakhalin" by Michel Brun with a forward by John Keppel. Brings back memories of ABLE ARCHER for those old enough to remember that...
Fantasy. A distraction. Why would the Soviets admit they shot the plane if they did not?
"Spy planes are dark, no lights, for obvious reasons."
So all spy planes do this? You mean they NEVER are disguised as a civilian plane in order to conduct a spy mission? It would be impossible to imagine that a civilian plane flying over a most super sensitive area and refusing to respond to international signals to land COULD actually be a spyplane disguised as a civilian plane?
Really?
It would have been a remarkable propaganda coup for the Ruskies if it had been. Could have been, would have been, you, yourself might like to say, should have been.
But the point is, it wasn't a spy plane. They fucked up in the most horrific way possible.
Now, I'll throw you a bone. The U.S. shot a passenger jet out of the sky with a ship born missile on July 3 1988. A major league fuck up.
http://www.inquisitr.com/1358815/the-day-the-united-states-shot-down-a-civilian-airliner-a-look-back-at-iran-air-flight-655/
You're welcome ;-)
https://www.google.com/search?q=air+force+rc-135&hl=en&gbv=2&prmd=ivns&s...
Yes, someone else tried to sucker me into that ;-)
The pilot saw the lights, he shouldn't have fired.
/////
Whoa, clarification...(having read my own words) not that I'm saying either was an attempt to sucker. The outlines are similiar.
Not trying to sucker you, since I don't even have a picture of the exact plane in question... The pilot certainly fucked up, but a functional human might be perfectly capable of fucking that up. I don't know what sort of "headlights" a Russian fighter has but I don't think there was a Hollyhoax lighting crew up there to help out with the ID. Then, if there was one of those annoying announcements for people to close the window shades so other people could sleep- there would just be door lights plus the same red/white tail and fuselage lights that you see even on military planes. But if the pilot of the KAL plane could see tracers out of the cockpit- why the fuck didn't he do SOMETHING???
the closest I could find to a night flight picture
The whole truth never comes out unless the raw data is released.
As a former pilot i will add this. We rarely look outside in cruise, we are looking at the dash, or reading the newspaper (not kidding) Or maybe doing company paperwork.
All those fancy lights that light up the logos etc, would be off at that altitude and in those days double definatly been off.
At 3am or so local time, with all hopes of sun behind you you wouldnt see squat for other planes. Its tough to see them when you know they are there.
Also the fighter pilot said he only had armor peicing shells, no tracers.
1) He said he circled it, signifying he saw something and also meaning KAL007 should have been able to see him or else he would not have bothered dipping his wings alongside the cockpit or in front of it for them to see his visual command to land.
2) The aviation lights on passenger jets, the strobe lights, not the interior cabin lights or a "fighter jets highbeams"...lol. A military jet wouldn't have had them on if they didn't want to be detected, apparently no one thought to ask the Russians if they were on.
3) Finally he said he fired warning shots. We are asked to believe this is true. IF TRUE, it can only mean one thing, the entire crew and passengers of KAL007 were asleep with the plane on auto-pilot with the wrong heading punched in, taking it over Russian air space.
We are asked to take certain statements at face value as facts here.
Even after the Russians got caught lying about shooting it down in the first place (they did in fact shoot it down) and then lying again stating definitively it was on a spy mission while offering no proof of that (they couldn't because it wasn't).
Snyder is engaging in a bit of sensationlist deflection & hyperbole of his own here..."The senior USIA official wrote, “The moral of the story is that all governments, including our own, lie when it suits their purposes. The key is to lie first.”
It was actually the Russians who lied first. Thats not conjecture, its a simple statement of fact.
I don't buy the "lie first" hypothesis, if someone is hell bent on lying they should "lie best" - the natural inclination of political types to open their mouths and to fear the sound silence like the plague would be comical if it wasn't so deadly serious.
Gotta go check on some clowns I actually did try and sucker...
Cheers!
You hand your enemy a propoganda pinata when you fuck up.
Remember what they did to Gary Powers?
They milked that one.
Yes they did.
Looks like I've interrupted a little Putin Party here by leaving a turd in the punch bowl.
Oh well ;-)
"This is a long stretch GW, sane people don't shoot at unidentified outlines in the room at night, it could be one of your family...OR...a burglar."
We're not dealing with sane types ... we are dealing with national security types, who by definition are always paranoid and often neurotic bordering on psychotic.
Even though it was called the cold-war, there was still a lot of shooting going on that didn't make the front pages. Granted a 747 doesn't look in outline like an RC-135, but KAL007 was flying over some fairly sensitive properties, and, much like we have a t'rist under every rock today, they players in the so-called cold war never knew who might be trying to gain an advantage
I think you would have trouble at 3am local time in september telling much difference. Untill real close. Its not like it was broad daylight as the media convieniently doesnt mention.
"Granted a 747 doesn't look in outline like an RC-135..."
Not sure what a pilot flying alongside one "dipping his wing" can make his eyes tell his mind what it appears to be with everyone shouting in his ear to shoot it down...but yes ;-)
A government lied?!
The DC US government lied?!
I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you. Tell me it's not so.
Russian seperatist leader today suggested that people were already dead before plane even got off because "daed bodeies don't look like that after one day".. take that Western media!!
There have been a couple other accounts of some of the bodies not being fresh, having already started to decay and having been drained of blood (no blood from damage to the bodies). But this appears ,at this time, to only be true of some of the bodies. The implication is that these were bodies boxed and place in the storage area of the plane.
The purpose is a mystery. Were some live passengers taken hostage prior to the plane taking off and these bodies were fillers, with the intent that they would not stay intact and would likely be burned in the crash to hid their condition. Were they Ukranians killed with bioweapons with the intent the rebels would control the crash site and become infected.
If the non EUkran's who visit the site to investigate do not wear biosuits and then return home to the US the bioweapon theory should be incorrect. If they do wear biosuits and decontaminate then it's likely true.
Or the initial observers may be incorrect. But I would think that if the locals (not just EUkran troops) are saying this then there is something to it.
Of course if this is true about the predead bodies it is just "an accident" that they were loaded onto the plane. Those nazis in Kiev would never do such a thing.
Who needed a Malaysian jet and a bunch of bodies?
Were they Ukranians killed with bioweapons with the intent the rebels would control the crash site and become infected.
If the non EUkran's who visit the site to investigate do not wear biosuits and then return home to the US the bioweapon theory should be incorrect. If they do wear biosuits and decontaminate then it's likely true.""
That, or the russians are providing an air defense umbrella within 35 or so miles of their border and shot down 1 more aircraft within it, in thus case with a Malay pilot and 300 or so passengers. One of those.
If the Russians were providing a 35 mile air no fly zone on each side of their border they would have announced it. The Russians has shown no tendency to establish a kill zone (especially outside of their border) and not announce it so all stay out of it. You are saying they made such a zone with the intent to kill all aircraft (any type and nationality) who enter it and tlhen not let it be known. Makes no sense.
Speaking of the separatist leader, what do we really know about Igor Girkin (" AKA "Strelkov"):
"a former (and possibly current) Russian intelligence officer...A wildly messianic nationalist who cultivates an air of lumpy intrigue, Strelkov has found his way to the battlefields of Chechnya, Serbia, and Transnistria."
ooops, looks like he's not an angry Russian from Ukraine after all(!) Rather, a neo-colonialist KGB guy who enjoys putting Putin's toys to use in a pathetic attempt to re-assemble parts of the former Russian empire. Its funny that he likes to call the Ukranian government gay nazis, because I've never seen a gayer looking nazi than this guy, have you seen his moustache?
In his spare time between battles, he apparently enjoys re-enacting historical Russian battles.
"So that's who you're dealing with: some mix of civil war reenactor or Tea Partier decked out in revolutionary garb, with a mix of reckless aggression and comical incompetence."
http://www.alan.com/2014/07/18/putin-gave-this-incompetent-fool-anti-aircraft-weapons
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/meet-igor-strelkov