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Biggest Dutch Daily Calls For NATO Intervention To Protect MH17; Feinstein Tells Putin To "Man Up And Confess"
Shortly after we first reported about the MH-17 tragedy, we said that the key variable would be proving who the shooter was, as the grand fingerpointing theater was about to begin. We also noted that the actual answer to "who did it" was irrelevant, for the great propaganda machine had already made up its mind and was on overdrive. It promptly led to such ridiculous comments from non other than the Pentagon which said that, on one hand:
- 'STRAINS CREDULITY' SA-11 FIRED WITHOUT RUSSIAN AID: KIRBY
and yet:
- 'WE JUST DON'T KNOW' WHO FIRED SA-11 MISSILE AT PLANE: KIRBY
So, "we don't know who did it" as long as Putin did it.
As expected, the narrative that the jet was shot down over Ukraine by Putin promptly became the go to version of the western media, and in the absence of actual facts, the appeal to emotions took over and quickly hit a fever pitch. Below is a sampling of some UK newspaper front pages. Clearly, facts be damned, the media knows all already.
"Putin's killed my son" says the Mail. Wow, I've only just seen these front pages (via @kshn). pic.twitter.com/00yHbma3QM
— Shaun Walker (@shaunwalker7) July 19, 2014
In fact, one needs do nothing more than listen to that supreme "the NSA spying is good for you" demagogue, Dianne Feinstein, to know that the "west" is by now convinced the propaganda was has been won. To wit, from Telegraph:
Dianne Feinstein, chairman of the US Senate Intelligence Committee, has urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to "man up" and admit Russia made a mistake.
She told CNN: "I think this has become a huge human drama, and I think the nexus between Russia and the separatists has been established very clearly, so the issue is where is Putin?
"I would say, 'Putin, you have to man up. You should talk to the world. You should say, if this is a mistake, which I hope it was, say it.
"I think the world has to rise up and say we've had enough of this.
"You cannot let this kind of thing happen, and Russia continues to prepare it for the next strike down of a civilian plane. There will be repercussions from this."
But if the "facts" were so overwhelmingly against the separatists, why does it matter if Putin admits? After all it would surely assist the demonization campaign against Russia if the former KGB spy kept up his version of events.
So facts be damned, everyone in the west, from the most crony politician to the biggest tabloid has "undisputed" proof Putin did it. But what now: what is the endgame?
Once again the answer is simple: Western military intervention, this time in the conflict zone, under the guise of public anger against Putin, to reinforce the dwindling Ukraine army forces and to repel the separatists, in the process regaining the critical industrial regions of Ukraine which also are the location of vast natural gas deposits. Certainly showing to Gazprom just who was in charge of this key natural gas nexus wouldn't hurt either. After all the west has already invested so much in the current Ukraine government, it can't all be for nothing.
And we know that because a few hours ago, the biggest Dutch newspaper, Telegraaf, openly asked for military intervention by NATO to protect MH 17 and calls Putin a "KGB liar."
So what happens next? Well, since no crisis should ever be put to waste (especially a crisis created by the same entities who end up benefiting the most from it) the big push over the next week will likely involve setting the stage for the Western arrival (led by NATO or some other grand Western alliance) to secure the MH-17 site, to repel the separatists, and to reinforce armed forces that, courtesy of extensive CIA intervention in recent months, are aligned with said "reinforcers", all the while further provoking Putin and Russia, leading to even more sanctions and countersanctions.
To all those who see this as nothing but a deja vu of the Syrian fiasco scenario that unwound over the past two years with such unprecedented humiliation for the US State Depratment, you are not alone.
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The Pentagon at first denied the Iranian claims, declaring that information from the fleet indicated that the Vincennes, equipped with the Aegis electronic battle management system, had shot down an attacking Iranian F14 jet fighter. But after sifting through more detailed reports and electronic intelligence, Reagan directed the Pentagon to confirm there had been a tragic case of mistaken identity in the war-torn gulf.
Crowe, in his hastily called news conference at the Pentagon, also backed up the skipper of the Vincennes and faulted the Iranian airline pilot. Crowe said the Airbus had flown four miles west of the usual commercial airline route from Bandar Abbas to Dubai and that the pilot ignored repeated radioed warnings from the Vincennes to change course.
Why and how the Vincennes mistook the bulky, wide-bodied Airbus A300 for a sleek, supersonic F14 fighter plane barely a third the transport's size will be the subject of "a full investigation,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655#Aftermath
Similar to what the Russians paid to the KAL 007 victims. Wait a minute...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAL_007#Aftermath
Nevermind...
The problem DF has is that she has never been known to tell the 'truth' ie any pronouncement that a normal person could understand as being possible much less probable. She is the Dunce of the Senate (oopppps that title might be shared with Reid...Schummer, Durbin..or any of several others....but she is at least very much in contention.)
I dont 'give a fuck! As long as there is gas for my super-kool sports car. And drive to her house and fuck the shit out of her, who cares! I'm for me, don't give a shit aboiut others. Did the same in business. AS soon aS i RAN OUT OF PEOPLE to fuck over, I retired! More than you, fuck you, I won!
you a asshole
He's just telling it like i is man. Plus he's being facetious.
Wow, you drive to Feinstein's house and fuck her? Up thread they said she had her head up her ass. Is that hot? Or kinda, ya know, difficult? I know you are a guy who likes to get his...
Reasons the Russian did it.
1) To be hated by the world.
Reasons the US did it.
1) To stop conversation about US spy scandal in Germany.
2) To drown out criticism of the the Israeli slaughter of hundreds of Gazans.
3) To force the cancellation of the French sale of two Mistral carriers to Russia.
The West gets all of that for having Ukraine blow 300 lifes out of the sky. Which is cheap for Kiev considering the the est put them in power in February.
OK Let's make a list. BUT I think the main thing is US is a spurned and stalking ex-boyfriend jealous that Angela Merkel had a date with Putin for the World Cup final.
But down the list we go....
BRICS Bank
BRICS political alliance
Pipelines
Syria
Judgement of Malaysia regarding war crimes
Natty Gas in Ukraine
Nato failing
BRICS BRICS and more BRICS
Alliance with Russia/China
By=passing of US Dollar as a clearly stated aim in international trade
HUGE distraction from Israel's genocide in Gaza
EGO hit to State Dept et al in recent months with blogs and internet media catching the odd lie.
EGO
Military machine needs to be set in motion for financial reasons
Loss of "face" and "power" in DC as they self-destruct.
Need to kill a bunch of innocent people world-wide to boost the economy, downsize generally and promote some insiders.
Elections are coming. Elections are coming and we need an enemy here.
Have I missed something?
Psst, the dollar.
And the answer is : PEAK OIL.
Hubbert pridicted peak oil in America to hit in !973 and to hit world wide in 2006. The American prediction was accurate and the global prediction was almost correct but for the discovery of oil shale, which America had cubic miles of. Which meant the US would be the largest producer of crude oil in the 2020s.
Everybody took this government proclaimed fact to the banks, put up their feet and lighted up a cigar.
Until May 20, 2014
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-oil-20140521-story.html
In 1980, when Reagan's neocons learned about peak oil, they look at it as a way not to repay the debt and the National Debt began its dizzying journey from one trillion in 1981 to 17 trillion today.
In 2000, someone reminded the military that they couldn't use all their high tech gadgets without crude oil. And Iraq, Iran, Venezuela and Russia had the lion's share.
Saudi Arabia's Ghawar oil field was on the decline. What was there to do?
911, withdraw from ABM treaty. Invade Iraq. Install a missile shield in Eastern Europe. Later would be the Arab Spring, which was a nice name for revolutions in Syria, Egypt, yes Turkey, Libya. The Middle East was destabilized
Where are we now? It's Putin's move. (After all, he was the most powerful man on the planet in 2013.)
"Man up" ? I love it when our politicians talk like the cast of Jersey Shore. Feinstein should come to work wearing jeans halfway off her ass and a ball cap cocked to one side with a huge gold hub cap adorning her chest. That should intimidate those evil russians into fessing up.
She da left coast Bloomberg Bitch
Spoutin' on the corner some red hot shit!
Papa in finance, buildin' jet rail
Daughter in Moscow yellin' "Pussy for sale"
Yeah and that horrifying scratching sound of her two old cellulite-ridden monster thighs rubbing together as she walks would be enough make any man cower, even Vlad.
Most interesting thing of all is that there has been zero discussion of the possibility of a bomb on the plane. Yet the so-called "Underwear Bomber" was able to board a plane at the same Amsterdam airport.
I looked around and I couldn't find any information about any investigation whatsoever into the situation at the airport prior to departure.
It seems like either they know something shady happened in Amsterdam and don't want anybody to even think along those lines, or they know something shady happened elsewhere and so there really is nothing to learn in Amsterdam.
The fact that they don't want to do any investigation of the one thing they control, ie the Amsterdam airport, is curious in the extreme.
Two odd criticisms:
One is that the bodies were left out in the sun, while others were saying that the rebels should not be disturbing the site.
Two is that the rebels needed trained Russian troops to operate this sophisticated weapon, yet if Russian troops were operating the weapon they would have recognized it as civilian.
Off topic but what the hell.... Inquiring minds want to know:
Does Lurch Kerry have a big tool or or is he one?
Is this whole confrontation between the USA and Russia because Obama caught his boyfriend Reggie rubbing one off to a shirtless picture of Putin?
Is it true that McCain and his effeminate man crush Lindsey Graham are desperate to capture and "personally interrogate" Strelkov about the big Buk missile that CIA intelligence says he is packing below?
Is Dianne Feinstein really George Soros in drag? After all no one has ever seen them in the same room together.
Is Hillary really hiding a Buk Missile launcher inside her canckles until she goes to Moscow on her book tour and plants it beside Lenin's tomb?
Does fatty Poroshenko really have Downs Syndrome or does his face look like that because of all of the inbreeding in Ukraine?
Does Putin do the dirty with his little gymnast hotty while watching old B&W footage of May Day parades on Red Square and dreaming of re-buiding the USSR empire ?
How did Poroshenko get so FAT?
Poroshenko, a multi-billionaire, owns the largest CANDY company in Ukraine (primarily by having previous Kiev regimes force out his competitors). Among the Ukraine people, Poroshenko has long been known as the "Chocolate King" - even the friendly media in Ukraine used this term.
Poroshenko also owns numerous other buinesses, including the Channel 5 TV station in Kiev. During the election campaign, he promised that he would sell the TV station if he got elected. Of course, he reneged on this promise. Hey! What do you expect? He is a politician, after all !!!!
--Jack4952
an American living in Ukraine
Wish you the best and keep your head low and family safe.
To make a long answer short, I would say "yes".
Who do these treasonous retards think they're fooling? Oh only the entire populace comprised of the obese GMO burger munching sports addicted sheeple waving the flag and chanting USA as the cops beat their brains in for spitting in the sidewalk.
If you watched "Face the Nation" you know that the two CFR's, 3 Aipacs, and 2 CIA's (the reporters) all agree that Russia is to blame. Bob Scheifer's viens were literally popping out of his head during his commentary at the close of the first half hour. It's as close to shapeshifter as you will find.
When the accounting comes, remember that group. There really is a conspiracy.
The Telegraaf was the news paper which served as the Propganda outlet for the German Occupier in the second world war. Seems they haven't changed their ways!
If you can read German, this PDF details NATO & US joint military exercises in June 2014 where a fighter jet would shadow a passenger jet, jam it's transponder and then transmit a military code to make it look like a military plane. The Russian Seperatists [sic] were shooting at a "military target".
http://adam.curry.com/enc/20140720012844_1801925hunkolinke.pdf
Yup makes sense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKKoKmUtQXE&list=PL8KaQljsCR7gBTzxv4SKqJ27WJ3ZYZk4W Been doing this for awhile.
This needs to get out there.
Be sure to go to CC on the lower right hand area of the screen and get subtitles in English.
Interesting theory.
I am an American who has lived permanently in Odessa, Ukraine since 2009. I do NOT know who shot down the Malayasia MH17 airliner on July 17, 2014, but I would like to present some FACTS we currently do know and some questions that desperately need answering.
1.) Most of the people I have encountered in southern and eastern Ukraine do NOT support the "Kiev government" (as they call it). They viewed the post-coup government as illegitimate and feel the same about Poroshenko's government, since they believe the latest election was a farce. Further, the new Kiev regime is even MORE corrupt (if such a thing is possible) than the Yanukovich regime, with even more oligarchs in key political positions. U.S. officials have publicly stated that they funded the coup (at a cost of $5 billion over several years) – and even chose Yatsenyuk (“Yats”) as the post-coup Prime Minister - and that today the CIA, FBI and U.S. military advisors have taken over for their use several floors of the Kiev regime’s parliamentary buildings.
2.) The Kiev military has killed well over the 300 people in eastern Ukraine fighting through artillery and air strikes in civilian sections of cities, far more than died in the MH17 crash. However, little news of these killings has been reported in the Western media. Even the murder-by-incineration of civilians in Odessa a few months ago by Right-Sector (neo-NAZIs) thugs bussed in from Kiev received only a few days coverage.
3.) The MH17 flight on July 17 did NOT follow the normal route for previous MH17 flights. The web sites www.FlightAware.com and www.FlightRadar24.com report and record the ACTUAL flight paths of all commercial airlines. If one looks up the flight paths for this same MH17 flight BEFORE July 17th, one can see clearly that these PREVIOUS flights flew well south of the "combat zone" and its “restricted airspace” - most crossed far to the south over the Sea of Azov; and some even flew much further south, either over Crimea or entirely south of Crimea. WHY did this ONE MH17 flight fly over the combat area with its "restricted airspace"?
4.) The pilot of the downed MH17 reported that upon entering Ukraine airspace, he was instructed by Kiev air traffic control to change course so as to fly over the "restricted area". He objected to this course change, stating that he was "uncomfortable" flying over a combat area with "restricted airspace". Indeed, more than three months ago, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) prohibited all U.S. airlines from flying in the “restricted area”, with the “safe zone” far to the south of where Flight MH17 crashed.
5.) For this July 17th MH17 flight ONLY was the airliner escorted by 2 Kiev-government military fighter jets. This was reported by the Kiev air traffic controllers (ATC), as well as ground observers. The Kiev ATCs reported that the fighter jets escorted the MH17 airliner on the altered flight path until just 3 minutes before the airliner was shot down. WHY the fighter escort of MH17 on this day ONLY?
6.) Some foreign air traffic controllers (ATCs) in Kiev, including one from Spain, reported by Twitter messages (“tweets”) many of the irregularities regarding the MH17 flight of July 17 as they were happening, including the changed course and the military jet escorts. Within minutes after the crash, Ukraine SBU security agents entered the facility, seized all phones, and took away all ATC data recordings of flight MH17.
7.) It has been reported in the Ukraine media just days ago that President Poroshenko was told by his top generals that the eastern “separatists” had NO “Buk” surface-to-air missiles. Further, CNN (www.CNN.com) reported that, after conferring with Pentagon specialists, Rear Admiral John Kirby and Air Force Gen. Philip Breedlove, White House officials now believe the Ukraine “separatists could NOT have operated” such a complex missile system, UNLESS they had received extensive specialized training by the Russian military.
8.) The BBC reported "Ukraine's SBU security service has confiscated recordings of conversations between Ukrainian air traffic control officers and the crew of the doomed airliner, a source in Kiev has told Interfax news agency." In addition, all digital records (of radar trackings, etc.) for the MH17 flight were confiscated. Finally, the location of the two “black boxes” (flight data recorders, which are actually BRIGHT ORANGE) within the MH17 airliner is unknown. (Edit: The latest news is that they were found today.)
9.) One must ask the question of “cui bono” or "who benefits" from the crash of MH17? The U.S., NATO and the Kiev regime have been trying to provoke Putin into sending Russian troops into eastern Ukraine for several months, but Putin has refused to take the bait. Further, Germany and France have resisted NATO intervention and have actually INCREASED the number of trade deals with Russia, including those in which the U.S. dollar will NOT be used in the commercial exchanges. Such deals by Russia with Germany and France, along with similar deals with Brazil, China, Iran, South Africa, and so on, greatly threaten the status of the U.S. dollar as the world’s “reserve currency” for international commerce. The U.S. and NATO know that the Kiev regime’s military forces alone can NOT defeat the separatists in eastern Ukraine and control eastern and southern Ukraine by force. Thus, the Kiev regime is doing everything it can to bring U.S. and NATO combat troops (and perhaps troops from European countries) into the conflict. So as to the question of “who benefits” from the airline tragedy, the answer is clearly the Kiev regime, along with NATO and the U.S. government. And. of course, the Federal Reserve and large investment banks that survive only because the U.S. dollar remains the world’s “reserve currency” – for now.
10.) Could this tragedy have been a “FALSE FLAG” operation in order to turn world opinion against the eastern Ukraine separatists and Russia? In a “false flag” operation, a country secretly attacks itself, then blames the attack on someone else in order justify military action. According to leaked documents published world-wide, only several months ago the Turkish government planned to shoot down a Turkish airliner and blame it on the Syrian military – in order to justify a war against Syria (with the U.S. and NATO joining in). President Obama and John Kerry insisted that Syria has used the nerve gas Sarin in 2013 against the Syrian people, in order to justify an attack on Syria – until it was discovered that the nerve gas had been released by the “Syrian rebels” and supplied by the U.S. and NATO. It is an admitted fact that the “Gulf of Tonkin” incident, in which North Vietnamese military boats supposedly attacked an American naval destroyer, NEVER occurred – but it was President Johnson’s excuse for escalating the Vietnam War. President George Bush-2 and VP Dick Cheney claimed that Saddam Hussein had “weapons of mass destruction” (WMDs) in the form of nerve gases and biological agents in order to justify the Iraq War – yet no such weapons were ever found. The burning of the German Reichstag (the German parliament building) in Hitler’s Germany in the late 1930’s was supposedly done by Communists, but was actually done by the Nazis themselves – however, it justified the passage of laws suppressing dissent and gave Hitler near-dictatorial powers. In the early 1960’s the U.S. military and the CIA presented a plan to President Kennedy in which the U.S. military would shoot down a civilian airliner over southern Florida, then blame it on Castro’s Cuban military – to justify a full invasion of Cuba by American troops. Fortunately, JFK was appalled and fired several top generals, along with the head of the CIA (Dulles). “False flag” attacks have been used throughout history to justify military action and gain public support for war.
11.) So, WHO shot down Malaysian flight MH17 on July 17, 2014? I have NO idea – I will wait for an examination of the evidence by independent investigators.
It could have been the eastern “separatists”. It could have been Kiev-regime troops in the area. Or it could even have been shot down by one or both of the Kiev-regime military jet fighters that had accompanied the airliner. One thing is certain: Putin would NOT and did NOT order (or even have allowed) such an incident to happen, since his strategy all along has been to avoid a military conflict between Russian and Kiev-regime troops, which might then bring in NATO and U.S. troops. That is NOT to say that Putin seeks friendship with the U.S. government. From the recent trade and currency exchange agreements between Russia and the other BRICS nations (Brazil, India, China, South Africa), along with Iran, South Korea and others, Putin’s goal appears to be the elimination of the U.S. dollar as the world’s “reserve currency” for all commercial dealings. Since the end of World War 2, with the dollar as the “reserve currency”, the U.S. has been able to economically “blackmail” any nation which dissented from U.S. policy. Russia and these other nations seek merely to end this U.S. monopoly on monetary and economic power.
good summary,
as I understand it, the US is now claiming that a combination of Moscow/separatist soldiers
fired the BUK missiles inadvertantly against MH17 because the BUK system was not capable of
properly identifying MH17 as being civilian, and because separatists alone did not possess the
expertise to accurately fire the weapon.
More investigation is warranted to sift through the varied possible scenarios.
Would be nice if it could be done objectively with all the true facts.
Thank you. You are doing the job these overpaid reporter "presstitutes" should be doing. This all needs to go viral. All of this.
Kerry has crossed the line with his "drunken separists" remark.
Oh, I don't know - other great Americans have said similar -
"The difficulty in understanding the Russian is that we do not take cognizance of the fact that he is not a European, but an Asiatic, and therefore thinks deviously. We can no more understand a Russian than a Chinese or a Japanese, and from what I have seen of them, I have no particular desire to understand them except to ascertain how much lead or iron it takes to kill them. In addition to his other amiable characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bitches, barbarians, and chronic drunks."
~ statement made on August 8, 1945 and quoted in General Patton : A Soldier’s Life by Stanley P. Hirshson, p. 650
Of course in Patton's case he made that statement when he was camped across a river from Russian Cassacks that had hung up live German prisoners and were riding past them on horses and hacking off body parts while singing and drinking. In WW2 the Russians and Chinese would send masses of people to the front (without weapons) and tell them to pick one up when they got there. The front line Russians were probably Asian peasants that were sacrificed by Stalin. The Japanese never recovered their pilots and killed their own wounded soldiers if they couldn't take them with. They also hacked off heads if you didn't comply and burned prisoners alive in fire pits.
But, Kerry is credible too, he has a purple heart (or is it ass) after all..........
Patton was an angry little-peckered closet poofter who, like the wacko Macarthur, has been made out to be a heroic "manly" figure by Hollyweird during and after WW2.
There are damned good reasons why Ike and Truman busted those two strutting-peacock clowns down.
If the retard Patton had met General Zhukov on battlefield, Zhukov would have cleaned his clock
LOL - OK, sure he would have.
The fact Ike and Truman 'busted' him as you put it could help in small part to explain how the US has morphed in to the old Soviet Union of the past over the last 70 years. Patton was not particularly enamored of the Zionists either, which seems to be a shared feeling with many on ZHers. I gues TPTB never really care to hear from those that disagree with them and therefore 'bust' them instead of cosidering and weighing their POV's and evaluating if there is merit to it or not.
I think, based on other Patton quotes, it was not 'Russian' per se he was speaking of, but Bolshviks in particular. About Bolsheviks, I cannot disagree with him. If he in fact meant all Russian peoples, then I would have disagreement.
I am kind of thinking that you need to refocus your study to the actual history of WW2. Yankees won the war BS runs pretty thin. All the Hollywood propaganda is there for all to view. Truth be told it is an edited version that is taught in schools.
Patton? Yeah well there are many darts to throw at his view on humanity.
Bolshevik revolution. Russian Revolution was a crime against it's people. Chinese are no angels with Mao. Japanese? Beheadings my Moslem extremists? Israel? Just show me one culture engaged in war that is "polite".
Has the US of A forgotten the demeaning photos and treatment of their soldiers sanctioned to humiliate in Iraq? Tough. Any war is an ugly war. When you send in brainwashed, under educated, children and condone this type of behavior WTF?
I will never send a son to fight for this garbage that is being manufactured now.
Canadian border was passable during the Vietnam protest. I suggest you all buy a bus ticket.
Since Ukraine is in war zone and pipelines were shut down, Russia can not profit (re-armed) from coming oil spikes. Yes MH17 is big deal.
feinstein, when will she confess to her family crimes?
never. projections of guilty representatives and
senators is one critical element to collapse a
civilization. ok, i can live through that again.
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Dianne Feinstein's Husband Tied To Questionable Dealings With U.S. Postal Service, Book Says
The Huffington Post | By Ashley Alman
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/12/dianne-feinstein-postal-service...
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so, confess lady.
.
"..Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and her husband are tied to questionable dealings between the world's largest commercial real estate firm and the U.S. Postal Service, according to investigative journalist Peter Byrne.
Feinstein's husband, Richard C. Blum, is chairman of C.B. Richard Ellis, or CBRE, the real estate firm hired in 2011 to serve as the exclusive agent to the Postal Service, selling facilities from post offices to plots of land worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Blum's investment firm, Blum Capital Partners, is the real estate company's fifth-largest institutional shareholder, according to Factcheck.org. .." ....
So, what purpose in hell would Russia have for blowing a passenger airliner out of the sky in the middle of this Ukraine situation ????
I can think of many reasons why the Kiev/US gubmits would do it and try to place blame on Russia.
Any benefits to the Russians on this? Also, if the illegal Kiev Gov directed it over that airspace as many say, what does that tell you?
Fucking Diane Feinstien........don't even get me started on her and her hubby and their hypocrisies.....
for fucks sake
This doesn't surprise me and the usual talking idiots include Graham, Feinstein, and Kerry among others were making the rounds this morning on TV outlets. They didn't advocate yet for 'outright war' but clearly more directional confrontation over Ukraine including additional logistics, supply, and other aid to the Kiev gov't along with trying to get the EU to follow US lead on more financial sanctions.
Outright stupidity on here which never places any blame on Putin is ridiculous but escalation over this issue in particular is just a convenient excuse for the US to badger EU (especially Western countries such as France/Germany/Netherlands) to more directly prode the Russians. So tired of the endless warmongering by both sides.
You know the entire situation is manipulated if only because of the Instant co-ordination of the usual corrupt politicians and the "news media."
Assuming the separatists were supplied/trained by Moscow and mistakenly shot down MH17,
that is still somewhat less reprehensible than Libyan and Syrian rebel/separatists who were supplied/trained
by US/EU/Saudis and who have DELIBERATELY committed even worse atrocities against civilians.
Nor are we to speak of Kiev massacres of civilians.
Nor are we to mention the on-going killing of civilians by US drones.
There seems to be a double standard at work.
Neither side has clean hands, but the US alone has supported the Kiev government to continue its unconditional demands and military offense while all other major governments were advocating a cease-fire and negotiations.
the attack was a ziocon cia stunt to stir up war....fuck the war mongerers.
so much wiggle room for error.
mossad keep things sim pull just like wt7.
dutch airport israeli run security
a fucking kosher bomb put on
nice and easy if you run dutch security.
or easier still send up a kiev military plane with a nice shiny new pin missile.
How about Feinstein's sellout of US for her own personal gain to the Chinese? Feinstein is unethical. Like one criminal calling the other person a criminal.
Feinstein is the wicked witch of the west. Have no doubt that she and her hubby use thier money and connections (CIA/Mossad) to get what they want. +1,000,000,000 to you.
Maybe the Dutch have a little 'splaining to do about their bio-weapons labs: http://www.rense.com/general96/dutch.html
Maybe the Dutch have a little 'splaining to do about their bio-weapons labs: http://www.rense.com/general96/dutch.html
Meanwhile, has the US ever admitted legal liability for the shooting down of Iran Air flight 655 with the loss of 290 lives including 66 children on July 3 1988? Nope.
Here comes the 'two-wrongs make a right' defense. I thought Putin was showing the west how to lead?
so the idea the dutch are pushing is to further provoke the nation with the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet..and here i thought the dutch were resonably intelligent people.
19 July 2014, (Spits) (google trans from Dutch) http://tinyurl.com/lbcdf7r
ORG http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/buitenland/2014/07/nederland-en-vs-bereiden-invasie-voor
MH17 PASSENGER MANIFEST
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=256502.msg1480453#msg1480453
MH17 PASSENGER MANIFEST BY COUNTRY
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=256502.msg1480462#msg1480462
Source (pulled now): MH17 PASSENGER MANIFEST PDF
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/malaysia-airlines/mas/PDF/MH17/MH17%20PAX%20AND%20CREW%20MANIFEST.pdf
Guys guys guys... I love this site, but come on. The conspiracy theories are getting old.
Yes, apparently Obama is a weak-willed, indecisive, incompetent, foolish leader who's in over his head. Also, he is a diabolical mastermind who manipulates events the world over, controlling every little act and event for his own benefit. Sure, those things aren't mutually exclusive or anything, fine.
Now, notwithstanding the fact I've been able to take the glaring contradictions between these two narratives with a grain of salt for quite a long time now -- is it REALLY so hard to believe some rebel just shot at a plane he thought was a military airliner, but later turned out to be a commercial jet?
I appreciate the fact ZH wants to cut through the western media bullshit and present the Russian side of the story, but ZH has gone from "presenting" the Russian side to "advocating" the Russian side, and there really is an important distinction to be made between those two. By advocating for the Russians, ZH is guilty of the same things it accuses western media of doing -- acting as a vehicle for propaganda. Quit doing that, ZH, and quit trying to influence your readers to pick a side. Present the other side that gets left out but don't encourage all your readers to subscribe to it.
Would it be hard to believe that some entity, opposing the rebels, SENT the commercial airliner into the area where they recently lost military jets?
Wouldn't it be helpful to know where those black boxes are? Do the Russians have them? No... do the separatists have them? No... or, maybe?
Who knows who has them? Certainly not getting any clear answers out of Putin, either. Better let the bodies rot in the open a little longer then while we think on the incompetent/criminal mastermind Obama and all his evil/inept deeds.
We will see and hear the "black" boxes during countersuits in international court.
Malaysia will sue Russia, because separatists have no money.
Russia will countersue Ukraine air traffic control.
Ukraine will counter-countersue Malaysia airlines for not maintaining friend-or-foe identification systems.
OK, somewhere, some how I just know the tax payer is on the hook.
Great comment Semper fudge and well said. ZH needs to stop pandering.
joethegorilla et al
Immediately after 9/11,
ANY presentation deviating from the unofficial narrative was denounced as "advocacy for the terrorists".
ANY consideration of possible blowback motives was condemned as "siding with the terrorists".
Perhaps you and Semper Fudge would do well to examine your own bias
as to where a "line" is supposedly crossed from "presentation to advocacy"
before making unsubstantiated insinuations about the bias of others.
Look again at what you regard as a "great comment" by Semper.
That comment is merely an ad hominem attack, a contentious insinuation made without a single scrap of evidence given to support it. If that is not evidence of bias, there cannot ever be evidence.
As I see it, no scenario has been left out or closed to logical criticism and examination in the ZH open comments section.
I am unashamedely biased towards the USA. Everyone else can screw.
" he thought was a military airliner,"
Flying at 33,000 ft., he obviously was going to land in the Black Sea
Translation:...
Israeli, Dutch, American and British Zionist Jews and their Zio-Christian "whores" see their fate sealed without controlling Russia's vast oil resources with Western banks in it.
Russia when you launch hell because of being provoked with ABMs in your "back yard", be sure you leave absolutely nothing left of Washington D.C. and Tel Aviv!
Personally I'd like to see both cities 100 miles from the shoreline surrounded by water when you're done!
And you can go F k yourself.
Hey Joey,
Something to wet your appetitie. So many massacres to choose from in Israeli/America's sordid little shop of horrors these past 65 year... I keep putting myself in the shoes of the victims in this atrocity and wonder what it will be like when it comes "knocking" for me and you!
It's true what they say. Payback is one mean ugly bitch with the nastiest yeast infection!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy
Pay particular attention to the part about Submarines OK?
Joe,
I'm impressed about the study on U.S. submarines -here is the one on Russia's ballistic capabilities you might not have known about until now.
I love wikipedia
They do such a fine job at glossing over details like not mentioning the U.S. Constitution or the UCMJ and it's connection to that "quaint little set of international rules and standards" or (that we allegedly use to adhere to) called Geneva after 60 million people were wiped off the planet from 1939 - 1945 when they mention "mission" and "freedom of the seas"...
Just who's freedoms are they talking about?
You will be so proud of me. I read the part about Russian Missiles where more than half of them failed and they have been delayed for years. And they are "shielded from EMP" (Which is impossible BTW).
If you have a problem with the USA then move to Russia. I'm sure they will adhere to human rights-type laws to the letter.
If the United States Army could force Germans to take in the horrors of the camps after WWII what do you say we "live and let live" and show the American public what they've been doing to the rest of the World these last 70 years starting with the money they just spent to incinerate the village of "Al-Shujaiyah"?
judging from the assorted MSM and ilk claptrap spillin' forth, putin and his cossacks are in pretty good shape and blackwater will get it's due.
The timing of the shoot down is perfect if you are Ukraine with your army trapped inside three to four pockets in the south. They failed in their offensive to close the Russian border off from Donetsk, in the process they got part of their army trapped. The offensive is still going on, but morale is sinking fast.
Enter an innocent Jet Liner, sent into an air combat zone by Kiev ATC. Even asked to drop down anothe 2,00 feet will diverting right over Donetsk. The west is so busy screaming for blood that they don't ask why the plane was sent into the combat zone. This smells fishy. Remember the Euro maidan had failed to overthrow the government, just when needed mysterious snipers appeared and gunned down police and protestors, the west reacted instantly blaming the government. Now Kiev has failed to win the US sponsered war and just when needed a mysterious flight path brings a western plane into combat and an even more mysterious force shoots it down. Presto, the west instantly blames Russia. How perfect is that? Timing I mean. Remember Syria where Assad began to win battles, presto, a chemical weapons attack of mysterious nature happens just when needed, presto America blames Syria and begins to move forces to the attack. Someone in Europe somehow managed to stop it.
How is it that when the drive to war slows, a mysterious force always comes from nowhere to ramp up the war fever.
Very odd, these things always happen when America needs then to happen. Even 9/11 happened with perfect timing to institute the police state and start big profitable wars.
Sick.
SInce when are Russian anti-aircraft missiles a "mysterious force" ?
Get help. Call your dad or whoever and let them know you've gone crazy.
SInce when are Russian anti-aircraft missiles a "mysterious force" ?
I guess in your book it was just a mysterious force that made the aircraft divert its course and drop in altitude to take it directly over a war zone, as to who shot it down that is still an open question, it could have been either side, I do not think the freedom fighters if guilty did so deliberately, any aircraft flying through a war zone is at risk from SAMS, it is perhaps sensible not to do so, a sentiment that I am sure Malaysian airlines now agrees with,
+ 100 greens.
Putin did it? Interesting.
So let's assume that these rebels did shoot the plane down despite logic and common sense saying they wouldn't as they'd know they would be blamed from most of the world. Now if Russia is aiding them that means Putin is responsible? Does that logic work whenever anyone the U.S is aiding goes and does something wrong? I'm guessing it doesn't for these western media morons (and sheeple) as they won't say "Obama killed my son!" if all the "terrorists" the U.S aids went and killed some Western civilians.
What's worse is knowing there are probably many people out there who actually think Putin ordered a passenger jet to be blown up for some unknown reason. I guess Putin had the plane change course too.
Even if the pro Russian rebels did this, anyone who blames Putin should pretty much be executed for the crime of stupidity.
Oh and yes, this is like a deja vu of the Syrian idiocy we had to deal with a year ago. This time it's different though as the western nations wouldn't again blame people who didn't do it. They've shown how truthful they are in the last year.
The human species is the most pathetic thing that has ever existed on this planet. For all the supposed advanced intelligence the species has, probably 9 out of 10 people are complete morons. All one has to do is look at known human history and the current state of the world to see how stupid the species is overall.
Russia did it. Putin is the leader. The way it works is the leader is responsible for the actions of his people. Just an FYI on leadership you buffoon.
You know something about leadership do you? seen your Politicians taking personal responsibility and resigning for all of the idiotic decisions they have made that have resulted in millions killed have you? It must be wonderful to be cruising through life with those pink fantasy glasses on 24x7.
'Two wrongs make a right' is never a good debate tactic. Try again.
wow, want to apply that insight to the ussa, knuckedragger LOL
Putin has been taking pot-shots at the worlds politicians for over a decade and he's been right about a few things. He skewered Bush and then Obama et al for the invading and spying. But then he did something and then another thing and now he finds himself to be exactly like Bush and Obama. First he invaded Ukraine, then he shot down a plane full of innocents. He did not order the plane shot down, but once you invade as Colin Powell said, you own the accidents. It's pretty clear now that the Russians shot it down by accident. All the people who looked at Putin as the guy who took cere of his people and kept Russia out of trouble are going to have to adjust to the fact that he isn't any better than Bush or Obama. Now he's just a typical politican who is using his military to help his oilman class. A cat can't change his stripes forever. Get back to finances ZH. This pro-red BS has got to end soon.
Sorry, we did not know you were there when it happened.
How is it "Pro-Red" BS if we only want to stop a war?
This is a fight by powers over Energy and Finance with no concern for the Earth's Peoples.
So, excuse us if we do not want to get blown up.
Common sense tells you Putin did not order a passenger jet to be shot down, it was an accident if it was the freedom fighters responsible, if it was the Ukrainian military then it was no accident as the freedom fighters do not have an air force.
1. The aircraft was shot down-apparently-by a SAM.
2. It was-apparently-a Russian made SAM.
3. Ukraine, Separatists, and Russia have access or possible access to said SAMs.
In a short time frame, we can assume X is still upset Russia thwarted the US attack on Syria when Bath House backed down. Even if Bath House had no personal desire to attack anyone, he is not in control (yes, I will make the assumption here he is what we would hope the POTUS could be). This is an opportunity for payback by X.
4. The use of a Russian SAM opens the door to many possibilities. Now a UN motion can be made to insert an intermediary force to secure the crash site with the support of the Kiev government.
5. Putin is now trapped. He should allow the insertion of an intermediary force only if a component of the intermediary includes Russian Special Forces as used to disarm the Syrian WMDs.
This is the best counter-intuitive idea I can think of. I would have Lavrov suggest a joint force including Russian troops and UN selected troops to secure the site. He runs the risk of allowing the UN to insert forces which might overstay their purpose unless he jumps out PDQ.
your logic is strictly out of the movies
"3. Ukraine, Separatists, and Russia have access or possible access to said SAMs."
...and you are sure no one else does, right??
"Now a UN motion can be made to insert an intermediary force to secure the crash site with the support of the Kiev government."
...security council? LOL
" Putin is now trapped." really, how did you come by that?
your logic is strictly out of the movies
"3. Ukraine, Separatists, and Russia have access or possible access to said SAMs."
...and you are sure no one else does, right??
"Now a UN motion can be made to insert an intermediary force to secure the crash site with the support of the Kiev government."
...security council? LOL
" Putin is now trapped." really, how did you come by that?
putins going to sit, let evryone make their aqusations, just as in syria, look how that turned out.
americas state dept. alreadys been caught in theirs, nato's, and the neo-nazi coup in keiv, how many were killed there, it's hard to apoligize for their planned actions in kiev.
i'm not for a comunist russia, but i'm not for a comunist america, or a socialist nato either.
this is why ukriane didn't want the cease fire, the plane downing was already in motion.
very first night on ukraines you-tube stating russians were at fault, the time stamp was before the plane was shut down, that slowed the bs down considerably, then stating what to me what would be obvious, it was a russian missle that shot the plane down.
how many thousands of middle-easterners have been killed by the billions of dollars o'bama has supplied to arm his team which changes constantly.
A little bird just flew in the "window"...
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/741521
http://investmentwatchblog.com/boom-kiev-caught-plotting-crash-of-malays...
You know what? Fuck it. Kerry has "overwelming evidence" that Russia did it. So let's get it on. Send the fucking marines to the front and let the "shooshtings" begin. I give it a week and it's over. And you can guess what "over" means.
Whoever pulled the trigger, these people are the victim of geopolitical and geoenergy games. And these games are continued to be played over their dead bodies.
So only Ukraine matters because it is in the neighborhood of Europe what about Malaysia's cry for Justice.
US Asia Pivot will be a joke when you force Malaysia into the arms of big brother China. Quite wise for Obama Administration not to get involved until Europe make up its mind in dealing with Putin who arms Ukraine.
Don't worry, China will not engage in hard conflicts. They have a more potent weapon calls "economic" and they are making their calculations in not letting this crisis goes to waste. Its neighbors are Asia just watching whether China will step up.
So only Ukraine matters because it is in the neighborhood of Europe what about Malaysia's cry for Justice.
US Asia Pivot will be a joke when you force Malaysia into the arms of big brother China. Quite wise for Obama Administration not to get involved until Europe make up its mind in dealing with Putin who arms Ukraine.
Don't worry, China will not engage in hard conflicts. They have a more potent weapon calls "economic" and they are making their calculations in not letting this crisis goes to waste. Its neighbors are Asia just watching whether China will step up.
here are two more: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152253787506546&set=p.10152253...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152253784426546&set=p.10152253...
Quick! Secure the site and sell the fuselage to a recycler in China before chemical residue can identify the origin of the missile.
http://www.anarchiel.com/stortplaats/toon/mh17_hauled_gruesome_cargo_in_...
According to this, flight carried virus-laden corpses ?
reading some of the posts, it would seem that some of you drones are auditioning for jobs with the dutch telagraph and the other rags shown here. a real collection of head-up-your-a** comments. appealing to the LCD. LOL
The area where the Malaysian passenger jet MH17 fell in Ukraine is a crash site not a crime site! Painting it as a crime site does not make it so. Whether shot down by accident or intentionally, most of the evidence on how and why this occurred will most likely come from sources other than where the flight went down. I for one feel total disgust and seriously distressed that this tragedy has become nothing more than a propaganda gem. More on this topic in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/ukraine-crash-propaganda-gem.html
Reassembling the airframe using known procedures with experienced investigative personnel can pinpoint exactly what went wrong, where it went wrong, and what device and chemicals caused it. You could test metal fragments for fingerprints, DNA, and manufacturing location. You could find parts of whatever exploded and re construct it.
Angle of flight of the alleged missile, speed, where it impacted on the aircraft - all can be determined if you don't just toss the debris on to the back of trucks. It requires staking out each piece, combing the field with hundred's of volunteers, a large warehouse to rebuild the aircraft, time and money.
I'm tired of hearing how drunken separatist thugs have been gathering up the bodies of the dead and moving them with little respect. Anyone who has ever undertaken such a task will tell you it is a difficult and horrible job.
Someone who is drunk cannot or will not go far into a field and be able to help carry a heavy body in 85 degree heat. Would it be better to leave the bodies out in the open to be eaten by wild animals? Any ass ranting about how these are a bunch of drunks has never worked a day in their life! More on this subject in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/putin-holds-all-cards.html
I'd like to pass a little scenario past you guys.
A high ranking separatist (dont remember the name) stated that the cadavers that were supposively those of the passengers were not "fresh" for lack of a better word and drained of blood.
Tinfoil hat on
1-Take a similar plane, say one 'lost' over the indian ocean
2-Fill it with cadavers and possibly nasty chemicals
3-Set the plane to go crash in tel aviv or some shit (not sure what is on the changed flight path) and get justification to go even more apeshit on the palestinians
4-Russian intelligence gets wind of the plot and shoots down the damn thing one way or another. lesser of 2 evils kind of thing
Tinfoil hat off
Rather than their blood being drained, what is meant, I believe, is the phenomena called post-mortem hypostasis. The blood would go to the lowest portion of the body, pool and coagulate there, as a liquid would in a sponge. http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/post-mortem-changes/post-m...
The bodies look charred by it is just decomposition.
I can see no way that Donetsk citizens, 99+% support joining Russia, would neither notice nor allow a Ukrainian Military unit to bring a BUK launcher all the way across the country and fire a missile just to make Russia seem the bad guy. Not after all pro-Kyiv units were surrounded, disarmed, and sent away months ago.
This would basically be an incursion hundred's of kilometres into occupied enemy territory during hostilities, driving on roads watched by people and military that are all heavily pro-Russia.
Cargo can be disguised or it can be moved at night. The supply road to the US soldiers in Afghanistan travels through Russia. Equipment and supplies would be included with the various battle weapons these wars demand. Speaking of which,one wonders if that access road offered by Russia has been closed. I recall it was a last resort with a country refused to allow access, Pakistan? Kurdidistan? I don't know anyone who wants to be on the bad guy's side, unless they are sharing the loot generously and drowning in the lap of luxury is a guaranteed distraction; even that, I cannot know my pennies are paying for weapons used against women and children. It's source is the savage, dark recesses of our unevolved murdering minds, allowed to surface in a weak man's character.