Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

Tyler Durden's picture

Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster. However, what is perhaps more concerning for the hordes of finger-pointers is that:

  • RUSSIA HAS IMAGES OF UKRAINE DEPLOYING BUK ROCKETS IN EAST: IFX
  • RUSSIA: UKRAINE MOVED BUK NEAR REBELS IN DONETSK JULY 17: IFX
  • RUSSIA DETECTED UKRAINIAN FIGHTER JET PICK UP SPEED TOWARD MH17

Obviously, if there is proof that this is so, aside from CIA-created YouTube clips, these would deal another unpleasant blow to US foreign policy.

The Russian defense ministry during its press conference which concluded minutes ago:

 

Here is the full clip of the Russian ministry releasing its own forensic analysis of what happened to flight MH17 (with English translation).

 

Russia wants to know why Ukraine moved its BUK missiles systems the day of the MH17 crash:

  • RUSSIAN GENERAL STAFF HAS SPACE IMAGES OF SECTORS OF UKRAINIAN FORCES' POSITIONS IN SOUTHEASTERN UKRAINE, INCLUDING BUK MISSILE LUNCH SITES 8 KILOMETERS FROM LUHANSK - RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY - interfax

The day the Malaysian airliner crashed, the Ukrainian forces deployed an air defense group of three or four Buk-M1 missile batteries near Donetsk, Lt. Gen. Andrei Kartapolov, head of the Russian General Staff's Main Operations Department, told reporters on Monday.

 

"These surface-to-air systems are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 35 kilometers at an altitude of 22 kilometers. For what purpose and against whom were these missile systems deployed? As is known, the militia has no aviation," he said.

Russia has the flight paths of the Ukrainian fighters and MH17. Furthermore, it is asking the same question we asked last Thurday:

  • RUSSIA SAYS MH17 DIVERGED 14 KM FROM FLIGHT PATH NEAR DONETSK

And wants to know why. The image (as seen in the presentation above) allegedly shows Ukraine fighter jets near MH17:

Here is a screengrab of a Su-25 fighter jet detected close to MH17 before crash.

As RT reports,

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

 

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

 

“The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

 

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

And asks for US proof of their accusations:

  • RUSSIA SAYS U.S. SATELLITE FLEW OVER MH17 AT TIME IT WAS DOWNED... which would provide all the proof needed to show who is responsible  - so why hasn't the US explained this or shown it? 
  • RUSSIA ASKS U.S. FOR EVIDENCE ROCKET FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • RUSSIA: NO U.S. PROOF THAT MISSILE FIRED FROM REBEL-HELD AREA
  • DEFENCE MINISTRY SAYS RUSSIA DID NOT DELIVER ANY SA-11 BUK MISSILE SYSTEMS TO SEPARATISTS IN EASTERN UKRAINE "OR ANY OTHER WEAPONS"

And went on to rebuke all the Twitter photos created by Maidan to 'prove' the BUKs were moving in Russian hands.

Additionally, as Russia noted using what appears to be legitimate photographic evidence (something the west has so far failed to provide in any capacity) MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official.

Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.

Radar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryRadar stations of the air defense in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

While the third picture shows the location of the air defense systems near Donetsk, he explained. In particular, one can clearly see a TELAR launcher and about 60 military and auxiliary vehicles, tents for vehicles and other structures, he elaborated.

Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 14, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

 

“Images from this area were also made on July 17. One should notice that the missile launcher is absent [from the scene]. Image number five shows the Buk missile system in the morning of the same day in the area of settlement Zaroschinskoe – 50km south of Donetsk and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk," the Kartapolov said.

No Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryNo Buk missile defense units in Donetsk Region, 5km north of Donetsk city, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry


Buk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense MinistryBuk missile defense units in Zaroschinskoe, 50km south of Donetsk city and 8km south of Shakhtyorsk, on July 17, 2014.Photo courtesy of the Russian Defense Ministry

The question that has to be answered is why the missile system appeared in the area controlled by the local militia forces shortly before the catastrophe, he stated.

* * *

Summing it all up, the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, has 10 questions for Ukraine (google translated)

The global public expects a speedy and independent investigation into the causes of the disaster Malaysian aircraft in the airspace of Ukraine.

In order to conduct an objective investigation of possible leadership of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has ased ten questions to the Ukrainian side.

1. Ukrainian authorities immediately identified the militia as the perpetrators of the tragedy. What is the basis of such findings?

 

2. Could official Kiev to report all the details of using [BUKs] in a war zone? Most importantly - why these systems are deployed there, as the militia no planes?

 

3. What are the causes of inactivity of Ukrainian authorities on the formation of an international commission? When such a committee will work?

 

4. Are the armed forces of Ukraine international experts to present papers on accounting for missiles, air-to-air and ground-to-air ammo and anti-aircraft missiles?

 

5. Whether these funds objective control on the movement of the Ukrainian Air Force aircraft on the day of the tragedy brought international commission?

 

6. Why Ukrainian air traffic controllers allowed deviation of the route of the aircraft to the north side of the "anti-terrorist operation zone"?

 

7. Why was not completely closed to civilian aircraft airspace over the combat zone, especially because in this area there was no solid field of radar navigation?

 

8. Could official Kiev to comment on reports in the net, ostensibly on behalf of the Spanish air traffic controllers working in Ukraine, which shot down over the territory of Ukraine "Boeing" was accompanied by two Ukrainian military aircraft?

 

9. Why Security Service of Ukraine has begun without international representatives work with recordings of talks with Ukrainian crew dispatchers "Boeing" and Ukrainian radar data?

 

10. How were the lessons from previous similar disasters Russian Tu-154 in 2001 in the Black Sea? Then the leaders of Ukraine until the last minute denied any involvement of the Armed Forces of the country to the tragedy until irrefutable evidence showed no guilt official Kiev.

Unfortunately, there has been no response by the Ukraine side to these questions so far. We expect that there will be some answers.

*  *  *

Needless to say, this places Ukraine and The US (as main protagonist of "finger pointer") in an awkward position as finally someone, somewhere will have to present some actual facts instead of merely continuing the "emotional appeals" propaganda.

We expect many of these questions to be answered once the contents of flight MH17's black box are revealed and/or when Ukraine finally releases an undoctored version of the Air Traffic control recording with the doomed flight.

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fonzannoon's picture

ekm there is nothing to report about the financial system that isn't already being reported. There are plenty of "Bric's dumping the dollar posts". They just don't fill up the day on here. The financial system is as intact as it was the day you took a break for a year. That is why we get so many Simon Black and Michael Snyder filler articles. It's also why the rest of us have either zero patience, or completely lost our minds. The only queston is which ones lost their minds and btfd and which ones continued to short this beast and lost their ass.

ekm1's picture

:-)))))))))))))))))))))))

Aussie V's picture

ekm1

I for one am not pro Putin however, at this point in history, at this instant of US control of the Ukraine NAZI government, killing innocent people, and total control of what we read, see and hear on the media I AM against the US State Department lies and deception, therefore, I am pro Putin because he is at least TRYING to avert war not invoke it!

pods's picture

I'm just here for the Rust Belt Zombie Porn articles.  I'll leave investing to y'all.

I feel a Camden article forthcoming.  I'm getting all tingly!

pods

toady's picture

Detroit has been played pretty hard for the last couple weeks, so maybe Camden is next. I'd like a nice Ohio though, a Cleveland, or a Toledo.

IndyPat's picture

Or perhaps a cheery Youngstown piece?

Or anything, anywhere....about West Virginia.
How can my home state get so dissed? It's got all the visual curb appeal of Detroit with 200,000% unemployment, incest and raging oxy addiction to boot. Strip mining so aggressive that in 2 years it will make Kansas look like the Rockies.
Wild and wonderful.
Don't take me home, down country roads....

Ghordius's picture

+1 fonz, comment of the day

"The only question is which ones lost their minds and btfd and which ones continued to short this beast and lost their ass."

haven't both lost their mind? this goes back to my humble opinion that there is trading, there is speculation, and there is... betting

and a lot of confusion on what is what

fonzannoon's picture

One more thing ekm, a few people had sent this to me.

http://www.stage2omega.com/treaty-for-the-establishment-of-a-brics-conti...

“The initial total committed resources of the [arrangement] shall be one hundred billion dollars of the United States of America".

 


ekm1's picture

Yes. It's about stock and flow.

Using existing stock of USD but not demanding new USDs with a mechanism to fully move to a system without USD, article 24.

 

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2014/07/18/guest-post-using-the-brics-b...

 

 

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

I'm waiting for a "Da REEL ekm" account to surface so I know he's super legit... /s

RevRex's picture

Stupid people judge a poster's worth by how long they have been a member......STUPID PEOPLE.....

MsCreant's picture

I judge you because you lay down posts telling everyone that they won't debate you, insult them, then folks like me answer you, and you never come back to have a discussion. 

You call us libtards and use childish misspellings and pronunciations to tell us how screwed up we are for thinking both democrats and republicans are dishonest. You then claim no one will answer you, even though we do. 

I have asked you before, why do you think one side is better than the other when both of them depend on corporate lobbys to fund their elections and both parties cater to banks and corporations? How can you say they are different?

I know you won't answer this one either. Odd that I should bother with you.

SofaPapa's picture

Hey MsCreant,

These avatars are designed to draw your attention and energy away from more meaningful threads.  They are very good at pushing your buttons so that you feel compelled to respond.  I certainly know the pull they give to my own emotional centers.  In fact, when I feel that "pull to respond", I am now automatically suspicious.  They are very well designed, and only by recognizing our own emotional responses and questioning these can we stay out of the murky waters the professional trolls (as opposed to the amateurs) are so good at creating.  We cannot be immune, but we can be aware.

I've always enjoyed your perspective.

MsCreant's picture

Thanks for taking the time to answer SofaPapa. I am going to do exactly as you suggest, a sort of Zen move to watch my own responses. It ain't even about the dark nasty little cowardly avatar and it's posting habits, is it?

We are truly a community. Thanks again.

IndyPat's picture

Couldn't help but notice that "it" didn't respond...

Just as you pointed out.

Must be a glitch in his particular bot program.

Late onset ADHD's picture

just Bravo ms...

 

 

...peace...

BigJim's picture

 I know you won't answer this one either. Odd that I should bother with you.

I guess you're probably quite nice, is all.

astoriajoe's picture

You don't see a link between banks/finance and this mess in Europe?

ekm1's picture

Of course there is.

But starting with "Putin is a saint" kills ZHs reputation.

 

I care about ZH reputation since I quote it all the time.

blabam's picture

Remember the Syria false flag.... Putin basically stopped WWIII from happening at that point... Yeah he's an evil bastard but appears to be the only rational player in the field. 

CrashisOptimistic's picture

Putin is a patriot.  Not a saint.

He'll do whatever it takes to protect the inexorable Russian future of dominance derived from oil and gas.

Never lose sight of what is going on.  The eastern Europe countries are GAZPROM dependent in about 4 months.  Ukraine is the conduit and they can't pay their bills.  Cutting them off will result in them tapping into the pipelines to essentially steal gas from those it was intended for.

This will generate a sense of "GAZPROM is unreliable".  The Southstream pipeline will be obstructed by the EU.

All this is intended to generate a price equivalence of cheap pipeline gas vs trans oceanic LNG, which would not exist any other way.

The odds are against the US and EU pulling this off, but if they don't try then Russia will continue to drain them dry.

Ghordius's picture

"Putin is a patriot. Not a saint." fully agree on that

btw, the thing about "The Southstream pipeline will be obstructed by the EU" is a bit more complicated than that

note how Austria is now on board of Southstream (ZH article on that), as much as most of the south-eastern countries

note also that the EU took a very big and very good "fig leaf" to pause Southstream: the concept that a pipeline should not be owned by neither consumers or producers directly, and be subject to all regulations of the "level field" anti-trust / anti-monopoly kind

the same angle of attack that leads the EU to criticise Gazprom for being "too big" and "too monopolistic" and Polish PM Tusk to propose a "single EU buyer" to confront the Russian "single seller"

yes. a "fig leave". yet a very good, and very big one

gallistic's picture

Lavrov's counter to that is an "ex post facto" argument which is also pretty damned good....

exi1ed0ne's picture

This isn't about love of Russia.  Those are some damn good questions that I'd like the answer to, regardless who asked them.  Anyone with a smidgen of critical thinking already had similar questions.

Too bad we will never get the answers.

ekm1's picture

Ok, imagine the scenario.

 

USA and NATO will show a map.

Russia will show another map.

 

How do you "prove" anything to the public who cannot interpret military maps?

 

It comes down to calling a duck a duck, not a snake.

This is about propaganda war.

thestarl's picture

WMD propaganda peddled by MSM enough said

Ides of November's picture

You are missing the point. 

The key audience Russia is talking to - and needs to convince are the following

1. Merkel (Germany)

2. Hollande (France)

3. Xi Jinping (China)

4. Juncker (European Union)

5. Erdogan (Turkey)

6. Modi (India)

7. Rutte (Netherlands)

8. Renzi (Italy).

 

If they can convince all these guys (& girl). Case closed. Russia wins.  NATO finished. 

Even if they can only convince half of them that is probably enough if it includes Merkel. Could she really have any great trust of the USA after all this NSA Spying rubbish!!! She must be skeptical of what the US/UK are telling her.

ekm1's picture

They all know who did it. They have satellites to know who did it.

Issue is ACCEPTING it. Calling a duck, actually a duck.

That is normal propaganda war.

 

As to Germany:

Deutschland cannot function without US Military protection. German surveillance is merged with NSA surveillance. Germany needs badly NSA for its surveillance.

 

What you see is Merkel playing theater for its own electrorate.

Ides of November's picture

I too an extent agree.  However,  what the Russians & Chinese need to also make clear to the Germans in particular is that if they allow themselves to be blackmailed by gold repatriation/ NATO bases/ Financial system collapse,  they are in fact making World War 3 more likely and perhaps paying their own part for bringing about a nuclear winter. 

Who knows - it might end up being the Germans blamed for that anyway whatever they actually do!

icanhasbailout's picture

I think Merkel knows she's in a Catch-22 and is looking for a way out. Hence it being an issue for her that her phone is tapped, since she's no longer on the team.

pazmaker's picture

ekm  you are right, but many folks on here think that just one side engages in propaganda.  I don't trust either sides propaganda machine.

Oldwood's picture

Believing everyone a liar makes it easier to do nothing, which of course is exactly their goal. They do not care that they have lost our confidence as it feeds the chaos that they use to empower themselves. Irrational fear and distrust dissolve any organized resistance.

shovelhead's picture

Fuck that irrational fear shit...

I'm marching on Stalingrad.

Anyone got a car?

Cuz I ain't flying.

agstacks's picture

I like to hear both sides an draw my own conclusions. The press is supposed to provide facts.  I know this is not normal to you since you've only been fed editorials your whole life. 

ekm1's picture

Can you interpret military literature?

If both sides show you satellite maps, can you read them out?

If they give you 1000s of images and videos, do you have the training to draw a conclusion?

exi1ed0ne's picture

As a matter of fact, yes I can.  So can hundreds if not thousands of people.  What's everyone so afraid of?  We might stumble on the truth?

I'm solidly in the camp that we CAN handle the truth.

AnAnonymous's picture

I'm solidly in the camp that we CAN handle the truth.

________________________

I am on with you for that, bro.

We, Americans, are factists and truthers. That is why we are so great.

Signed: an American.

IndyPat's picture

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Had to +1 you for that. A first.

Speaking of great...
Get your toilet installed yet? They are pretty fucking great. Don't have to shit on the side walk or in the subway station any more.
You folks should look into it. Scrubbers for the smoke stacks are pretty bitchen' too.

tony wilson's picture

 

ekm1 eye likes dis video what ya tink

 

eye likes it when ann rand paul says any attack on the yiddisha satanic state is an attack on america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBpft6pQClY

BigJim's picture

Do us all a favor Tony, and drop the anti-Jew bullshit.

Most Jews are no better or worse than anyone else, and no more to blame for what's going on on than the average Christian.

Reword your posts to condemn 'Zionists' rather than 'Jews' and your audience will be a lot more receptive. You'll also win a lot more hearts and minds because you do on occasion provide some excellent info (like that vid), but any normal person who sees it surrounded by Jew-hate language is goig to assume it's Stormfront or somesuch and skip reading it. Or is that what you want?

Everybodys All American's picture

For the record I agree with you ekm and I'm not afraid to also say I don't trust Obama either.

albanian's picture

Have you ben to bed with putin,that you now hi is a animal?

MsCreant's picture

Good choice not to be baited.

I support your right to disagree and or reserve judgement on this. I am finding many things on the net about this that are blowing my mind. I think the US is deeply involved in some stuff that scares me. But I am open to it that I have been misled. In fact I want to be wrong, someone help me not believe what I believe about my country, please. 

This is an ongoing dialogue. 

Welcome back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzEzDkeHzI

phaedrus1952's picture

Good morning, Mis.  I would like nothing better than to provide info of a positive nature about the US government, especially its intelligence, military, and law enforcement components as my family and friends have familiarity going back several generations.

I cannot.

Events/incidents such as expert skier congressman Sonny Bono "skiing into a tree" to his death, Green Beret colonel Dan Marvin relating on youtube on being asked by a company man to assassinate US naval officer Bruce Pitzer, hero cop Terence Yeakey's autopsy makes Gary Webb's 'two bullets to the head' suicide seem eminently plausible.  And on and on further downward into the rabbithole.

Sorry, Mis. We jes ain't in Kansas anymore.

IndyPat's picture

His name was Edward Snowden.
His name was Bradley Manning.

A82EBA's picture

Yes, welcome back EKM, missed your commentary