This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
US Government Releases Alleged Evidence Of MH17 Missile Trajectory
The 'information war' is hotting up. On the heels of yesterday's 30-minute detailed presentation of Russia's 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and the US), CNN reports that the US government has released a satellite trajectory map of what it says was the flight's path and the site from which the missile was shot. Of course, the epicenter of the MH17 launch is Snizhne, in pro-Russian separatist-held territory. Rebel leader Alexander Borodai responded, "we don't have the technical ability to destroy this plane. Ukrainians are not interested in the truth."
h/t @BarbaraStarrCNN
Which is right in the heart of separatist-held territory...
We await the detailed presentation of exactly what this means (or what The White House believes it to mean) ... or if it is simply a well drawn Powerpoint slide?
»
- 51631 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
I am pretty sure someone just drew a line on a map. Show the real evidence and pictures of the launchers. The picture of the BUK with a missile missing has already been debunked due to billboards being in the picture for a local car dealership in Ukrainian held territory. If you say that is the launcher, then it is Ukrainian.
If I had fired a SAM I might replace it on the launcher.
If I had hit a large plane and radar picked up another (Air India) I might fire two rockets
If I knew I had made a big mistake I might blow up the BUK to hide the evidence.
I don't think I would cover it with a sheet and tow it around so US satellites could film
True. That is possible.
If it was really hard to get, and enemy air was a really big problem, do you think you might try to keep it?
I haven't seen the debunking. Could you post a link please?
That would be good information to have.
As for the conclusion that only the West Ukrainians had launchers.... How did the AN-26's get shot down at altitudes of 19,000 feet and 23,000?
That's too high for a man-portable missile. If they don't have a launcher, then what happened to those planes?
The rebels shot it down with a BUK - obviously - but why did the rebels think it was a military plane? The Su-25 following MH17 spoofed the IFF transponder.
https://www.noagendaplayer.com/listen/636/1-6-55
Snizhne
If these BUK were present in this area how did this happen ?
http://en.censor.net.ua/news/293925/11_people_killed_in_the_snizhne_buil...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/ukraine-insurgents-both-deny-...
“Many local citizens saw the plane that dropped the bomb — it had Ukrainian markings,” he said. “Why Ukraine would bomb its own territory is harder for me to say.”
The US fomented a war in the Ukraine and because everything was failing Ukraine decides it needs to down a plane.
Now we get thpropaganda machine working in order to demonise Russia .. but the facts are failing their game.
This article doesn't mean that I'm not normal does it?
Wow look ...it wasn't a BUK system rocket afterall ..........it was actually a kewl yellow laser !!! Totally awesum!!!!
Ok, it's been 4 days now so I can stop waiting for videos to pop up. So, let me ask a question.
Have you ever seen launch + travel of a SA-11 sized AA missile, and do you think someone, anyone, anywhere would consider making a video of resulting trail, which would stay in sky for few minutes?
I am genuinely surprised that no such videos surfaced.
On day 1, I was 100% certain that rebels shot down that plane (yeah, mainstream media does that to people even if you don't read/watch it directly). And I was 100% certain a video of AA misile launch/travel/trail will appear, since no matter how 'bad' rebels and pro-Russians are painted in mainstream media, they're still humans and it's hard to convince everyone to lose consciousness. You don't (usually, I guess) just go to sleep and pretend nothing happened after killing 300 people at once. I was sure rebels would have filmed the launch/hit and shared it among themselves (because they were supposedly believing they shot down AN-26, right? that's certainly something to celebrate), but it's just not happening.
There is absolutely no way in hell that they would have not filmed themselves (along with neighbors in 1-2km range) a launch of a SA-11 missile. The smoke, the sound, the trail... it's the "ooooooh shiny" thing.
Now I am starting to believe that they really might have not shot down that plane. Unless they managed to get ahold of each and every video, and delete them, before anyone managed to pass it. Unlikely, though.
Damn, life would be so much easier if I would simply just accept what CNN/BBC/... tell me.
I'll be content to wait a little longer.
I don't expect the 4G or 3G service is working at its best in the war zone. I expect both sides blow up cell towers when they think they are of more benefit to their enemy.
Pretty good points actually. Link below shows downing of cargo plane in Ukraine a month earlier. MH17 could either be a well organized launch without (public) video evidence, or a "test-gone-wrong" by a bunch of drunk separatist rednecks without smartphones trying out their new BUK/SA-11 missile acquisition. Still it seems surprising noone filmed after the launch. A BUK missile should take some time before reaching 33.000 ft against gravity, leave a trail, etc.
http://theaviationist.com/2014/06/06/an-30-shot-down-by-manpads/
After all what was/is happening in terms of former manipulation & total surveillance it becomes more and more difficult to believe any official statements.
Now we are already at the point that even a launch of a Boeing with 300 civilists on board can't be cleared up in a confidental way. The public perception of the "own audiance" comes to the conclusion that "our" side is at least as unthrustworthy as the Russian side.
Very true.
The government side is never 'our' side unless you are part of the government.
CNN reports that the US government has released Photoshop picture trajectory map
Where are the satellite images? Where is the tower communications recordings? Where is Ukrainian radar recordings? Where is the explanation (or denial) for Ukrainian jets? Where is the explanation (or denial) that Ukraine moved BUKs into rebel territory the morning of the launch? The lack of any hard evidence coupled with the lack of denial shows a great deal. Once they start denying then all it takes is one slip-up or one true fact and the hoax collapses.
At the same place as the 9/11 evidence.
You reveal a weakness that all conspiracy nuts have - you attribute perfect, god-like ability to only USA and Joooo Government agencies that are able to fake anything, spoof anything, create any evidence for anything, make no mistakes, therefore nothing they say is true, real or factual. But of course no OTHER government can do this. CIA or Mossad=God Everyone else=Morons You have replaced God in your worldview with the government agency of your choice that you do not trust. It is still a Religion with an omnipotent entity at the top. You must think that everyone else on this rock is a moron if you think that only The Joooos and CIA can be so smart as to fake everything all the time but no one else can.
You are posting wrt the USA position, but it is easy to flip it to Russia's: Where are the Russian satellite images? Where is the Russian tower communications recordings? Where are the is Ukrainian pro-Russia radar recordings? Where is the explanation (or denial) from Russia for Ukrainian jets? Where is the explanation (or denial) that pro-Russia Ukrainians did not move BUKs into rebel territory the morning of the launch? The lack of any hard evidence coupled with the lack of denial shows a great deal. You miss that Russia should be able to show the same evidence you demand from the USA. Where are the documents accounting for all of these launchers? Where are the documents showing who was in possession of this launcher?
When one is skeptical wrt to one side only, that's called bias.
TOP SECRET: This is official proof positive of how it was done and the evil terrorists who were involved!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EhQVoyF_0c
I'll wait until Kim Kardashian weighs in on these issues.
Most plausible explanation - the IFF transponder was spoofed.
https://www.noagendaplayer.com/listen/636/1-6-55
How do you refute evidence like this?
As for 9/11. Cristal clear.
Dutch NRC news: Black boxes on the way to the UK, for some reliable investigation.
Dutch NRC news: Black boxes on the way to the UK, for some reliable investigation.
Dutch NRC news: Black boxes on the way to the UK, for some reliable investigation.
This looks like more of what the US hopes happened. Let's see the satellite photos with coordinates so that the actual launch site can be forensically checked. We're supposed to believe that a ZuS satellite can read the license plate numbers off a car. What are the ID numbers on the (Ukrainian) BUK.
I would call that drawing an opinion of what happened, not evidence.
Someone knows, and they ain't talk'n. The reason they ain't talk'n is because they screwed up.
Attention Presstitute media - You can take this evidence to the bank like those "mobile biological-weapons labs", all the WMD's in IRAQ & lets not forget the pre Desert storm "they took the incubators and left the children to die on the cold floor"
The chrash site is indeed in separatist-held territory (although not far from front lines), but Snizhne from where the missle was aledgedly fired is in the contested area.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/02/27/world/europe/ukraine-divis...
Like the DC US and their Ashkenazi controlled complicit-media has any credibility.
I wouldn't believe them if they said the sky is blue.
So you think that Russia and Pro-Russia Eastern Ukraine are SO INCOMPETENT that they could NEVER have fired this and that the Jooos and CIA had to bring a launcher all the way to this part of Ukraine?
Use your common sense and look at where this thing went down.
It's enemy territory to the USA and Kyiv. 99%+ voted to join Russia.
No way possible to do an ops campaign there - remember all the pro-Kyiv troops and bases were surrounded and disarmed a few months ago?
You give the CIA too much credit and the Russians too little.
I though it was a Buk launcher, which is a vehicle, no? But now it's an SA-11, which is shoulder fired? And next week it'll be a slingshot?
No.
BUK-M1 is the Russian designation.
SA-11 Gadfly is the NATO name for the same system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
Notice there are three vehicles in the photo. The whole system also comes with a command center, for a total of 4.
1) There is a Radar vehicle - that's the one with no missiles in the photo in the link, and some vertical antennas.
2) Command vehicle - this one is not pctured in the link.
3) Transporter erector Launcher (TEL) - this is the one with the missiles on the right side of the picture.
4) Transporter Erector Launcher and Radar (TELAR) - this is the one in the middle, with a round dome on the near side and missiles on the other.
RUSSIAN MANPADS ARE:
9K34 Strela-3 /SA-14
9K38 Igla /SA-18
9K310 Igla-1 /SA-16
9K338 Igla-S /SA-24
None of those are capable of touching MH17.
None but the SA-24 could have touched the AN-26's that were shot down last month. But Ukraine doesn't have any SA-24s as far as we know. Russia's forces only got them in 2004.
There were reports that the IL-76 shot down last month was from an SA-24. However, if so then that would ABSOLUTELY mean that Russia was arming the East Ukrainians.
The East Ukrainians could have gotten a BUK from defecting West Ukrainians.
Ok, let me put one SA-11 on your shoulder, let's see how it goes :)
SA-11 Gadfly is not a shoulder launched SAM.
common-core in real time.
yesterday i seen paths of the fighter jets shadowing mh17, so that means even if rebels shot down mh17, it was not an accident.
the very first question asked after this, ( the word for it is yet to be settled ), what did russia have to gain from shooting down civilan a plane, they were winning on the diplomatic side, and on the ground, is mh-17 a gain for russia?
haven't heard a word from the un.
I am not sure I understand your logic.
How do fighter jets near MH17 mean it was not an accident?
How would something the West Ukranians did (fly fighters close to civilian transports) reflect on the motives of the East Ukrainians (Separatists)?
Here is something that you can use to get out of a speeding ticket.
Doppler radar will return the biggest signature. If you drive next to a Big Rig, both you and he speeding, and a cop pulls you over saying he radar gunned you as speeding you will beat the ticket with a little research.
You can do something like this in a swimming pool. Have someone stand in the pool, but away from other objects. Let the water calm. Then send a wave towards them. Notice that part of the wave will ripple back to you. That is how radar works. It reads the part of the wave that comes back.
Now, have someone stand next to the side of the pool. Send a big wave towards them. There will be a reflective wave from both the side of the pool and from the person. But the wave from the side of the pool will swallow the wave of the person standing near the edge. That would be like a small fighter flying in front of an airliner.
Unless it was a 'stealth' airliner, the fighters couldn't intentionally mask the MH17 radar return, because the radar return from MH17 would be much, much bigger.
However, if the fighters were specially equipped they could 'jam' the MH17's squawk frequency, and transmit a different one. However, fighters aren't equipped that way. And it would not be simple to make them be equipped that way.
Even if it was true map, the distance between yellow point (crash site) to russian border about 55 Km, and the distance between SA-11 launch and detonation about 45-50 Km
SA-11 (Buk) Max distnace=35 km
Damn facts always get in the way of a hoax...
Nice try,
Go to Google Maps, and lets check your work.
Set a marker in Snowy. (Snizhniye)
Set a marker next to the Hrabova Reservoir where the wreckage rests today.
The distance is 19.4 kilometers BY ROAD.
The missile impacted somewhere above Nikishyne.
So do the same thing. The distance is 37.5 kilometers BY ROAD.
BUK missile can fly 42 kilometers.
Straight line distance is shorter.
EVERYONE FEEL FREE TO TRY FOR YOURSELF.
You do not help make your case when you say things that are OBVIOUSLY not true.
Instead people will wonder what else you've said that is untrue.
That is some kind of funny shit ....
Since when is it not just good enough for the President to say the Russians did it?
Never,
The worst that can be said about the Russians is that they helped Russian/Ukrainians (A lot of them have both passports) who were fighting for what they believe in.
There is no evidence that Russia did it directly.
There was a lot of stupidity by a lot of people, and ample blame to go around:
- Ukraine Air Control should have stopped allowing routes through there. They announced it was closed, but they didn't close it.
- Euro air control should have shut down the airspace as soon as the IL-76 was shot down there last month, no matter what the Ukrainians wanted.
- West Ukrainians should not be having their miilitary craft shadow civilians on ingress and egress. To be a military person means to protect civilians, not hide behind them. Yes they would take casualties. But that is what we expect from those who defend us. If West Ukraine wants to participate with the West, then they need to adopt the same ethos of Duty, Honor, Country - in that order of precedence.
- West Ukrainians will not be successful if they continue to allow militia groups to act as the government. If it takes a militia to do it, then the government is inadequate to do it. If you want to empower militias then decentralize, and insist that the militias become official militias in their region, or disband.
- West Ukrainians should not be changing their stories so often, nor giving people cause to question their sincerity or honor. Russia's claims about Naziism are technically correct of most all nations on the planet right now. It is behavior that differentiates. The Ukrainians have not invaded the rest of Europe as the Nazis of 70 years ago did. THAT is the difference, and is a difference that mattters in real terms, not just philosophy. In the mean time the West Ukrainian story changes almost daily. And they are not developments of the same story, but total 180 degree reversals. It presents the impression that these guys say nothing except when they intend to decieve.
- East Ukrainians story on any particular issue changes daily. Sharp 180 degree turns. It presents the impression that these guys say nothing except when they intend to decieve. Dishonest people cannot be believed when they say they only want to be free. In result, I don't know what they want, but when I see the other claims they have made I can be sure that the truth will not be included in the list of their claims.
- East Ukrainians should not be fostering or tolerating drunken insane behavior from its fighters. You want to fight for your freedom? Support your words with actions! Meet the standards. Drunken people with guns do all sorts of things that will destabilize the East Ukrainians stated desires.
- I have been skeptical of reports of Russian help. It seemed very persuasive after Crimea, when the military people without patches all proved to be Russian. But for the East Ukrainians to have an SA-24, Russia would have to give them. That system was fielded to the Russian Army less than 10 years ago!!!! The alternative explanation would be that the East Ukrainians captured or received via defection, one of the BUK M-1 (SA-11) systems that Ukraine had. That seems much more likely. But having the system isn't the same as having a supply of missiles. Each additional shoot-down makes it more likely that they have a supplier, rather than a captured missile. I don't know what the truth is. I hope Russia isn't arming them. And if it does, I hope it announces and justifies it. For instance, West Ukraine bombing apartment complexes would be adequate justification for a supply of ADA missiles. And the US should condemn such bombings not support them.
- Good that the US Pentagon isn't arming the West Ukrainians. Wish I had confidence that the CIA wasn't doing it. But I don't.
Let's hope there's not a nuke war if it takes the Pentagon 5 days to plot the trajectory of a single missile.
Right on. The lack of release of date from U.S. is sure sign they don't want the truth out. If they don't have pic and guidance the whole fucking defense enterprise should be canned.
What happens when the NSA geeks spend their time tapping all American phones and not doing any intelligence.
Yet they cant find MH370. Nope. No idea. We can tell you where a sixteen foot missle went days after the fact with photo evidence of the exact launcher.
But where did a commercial 777 disappear to? Couldn't tell ya. Great big fat mystery there. /sarc
They can't find the grils that were abducted in Nigeria by boko haram either. This not only surprises many people but cast doubt on our capabilities.
I work on the basis that whatever John Kerry says is a lie
..and it's 100% reliable
so the Ukranian Govt, who are a bunch of UN appointed goons, did it ..just another of the many mistakes this caretaker clown of an unelected Govt are making day in day out while ensuring the tax take for their pockets and international bankers
Pathetic.
If CNN reports it it must be true unless they are being influenced by some strong outside force. Few people realize that since July of 2013 the American government has been allowed to take a more active role in creating news programs. On July 2, 2013 a taboo came silently to an end with the implementation of a new law passed in the previous January.
For decades a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming generated by the government to American audiences.The new law unleashes thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption. This was criticized by many human rights activist as a green light for U.S. domestic propaganda efforts and in my opinion it is already being felt. Both government accountability and the role of free media has been diminished. I feel we may now be experiencing this change. More on this subject in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/07/when-propaganda-and-surveillance....
We did it or asked Kiev to do it to turn up the heat. Just like South Georgia we are the troublemaker here. ITS ALWAYS ABOUT GAS AND OIL isn't it? And apparently the present regime wouldn't mind Putin gone either...which seems naive and stupid ( Geez that fits the Obama State Department and Obama foreign policy does't it.) For the Crimean revolutionary Russians who want to protect their ass would be an incredible blunder and same for Russian, possible but unlikely for Russia at least.
Main thing so far is no hard evidence U.S. Side. And if we didn't have satellites trained on that why not?
Possible suppression of fact Americans may have been on plane? (NO Americans seems possible but...)
Certainly Kiev could be solely responsible.
And powerpoint went out a long time ago what kinda shit is this powerpoint slide (as you say).
Obama cool as a clam the morning after the plane went shot down (why do U.S. news lead with "Crashed" and not "Shot down"), he knew exactly what happened and couldn't care less.
America media is a corrupt in the pocket piss hole that just provides sterilized propoganda and doesn't care one iota about truth.
Good luck finding out what happened on this one. Only question is was it at all an accident and was it staged at all?
If you knew what happened Mr. President why don't we still know what happened. Or are you just a flaming retard.
Man up Mr. President and admit we did it. - Not gonna happen we want those pipelines closed. And Britain is as far from a neutral recipient of bodies as is possible without us hauling off to a frig in the desert out west. Where the missile came from except Russian Territory is irrelevant as Kiev could have slipped into the region with a Buk easily.
Yep, hate to say it, but this is the biggest pass the BUK ever...there you go.
Shit, some government agency trying to update my linux computer no doubt, the updater flashing never does that! Gotta go. I'll play along. If I cease to exist its because my hypotheses too close to the mark and the 'party van' came to take me away. -We'll see about that. CHou folks.
Still think flying over a Russian nuclear missile train could have caused this too. And plenty of reason to keep that quiet both side. Nuclear war and all and no balls Europe and U.S. not reacting to such placement of nuke train...
For Fun
MH17 IS MH370
explains the already dead passenger mish mosh.
Disinformation is always structured so you all get lost and stuck in the details, stick to the big picture folks.
NO HARD AMERICAN SIDE EVIDENCE JUST PROPAGANDA. THAT SAYS IT ALL.
CIA can always change flight path of any international flight , I assume. So this one was only made a scapegoat to :
1. Remove airdefenses from East Ukraine so that it can be captured.
2. Blame Russia and sanction it.
3. Incite Russia to start world war.
4. Stop gas supplies to Europe so that Europeans have to pay much higher for alternative sources , crippling their economy, so that European economy does not rise better than USA.
5. With Russia busy in many fronts , take on Syria and other oil rich places .
6. BTW Malaysia is also oil rich so USA will also get it involved & then capture its oil resources.
All of this means is this :
'Bama the pothead lord of gayss screwwing the whole world