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US State Department "Confident" MH17 "Mistakenly" Downed By Separatists, Finds No Direct Link To Russia
UPDATE: Having failed absymally with their earlier release of "information," US intelligence officials have tried to give more information... sadly this does not include any actual evidence, just statements and confirmation of YouTube clips...
Senior U.S. intelligence officials cited sensors that traced the path of the missile, shrapnel markings on the downed aircraft, voiceprint analysis of separatists claiming credit for the strike, and a flood of photos and other data from social media sites.
The officials also for the first time identified a sprawling Russian military installation near the city of Rostov as the main conduit of Russian support to separatists in Ukraine, describing it as a hub of training and weapons that has expanded dramatically over the past month. The officials said that tanks, rocket launchers and other arms have continued to flow into Ukraine
...
Senior U.S. intelligence officials said they have ruled out the possibility that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the attack.
“That is not a plausible scenario,” said one senior U.S. official, who noted that American intelligence agencies have confirmed that Ukraine had no anti-aircraft missile system within range of the Malaysian flight at the time it was struck.
...
The official was one of three senior U.S. intelligence officials who spoke on condition of anonymity during a briefing arranged for reporters in Washington
...
“We are seeing a full-court press by the Russian government to instruct affiliated or friendly elements to manipulate the media environment to spread Russia’s version of the story,” the official said. “What this looks like again is a classic case of blaming the victims.”
...
The officials also declined to provide more details on the satellites and other sophisticated sensors that enabled them to trace the path of the missile, citing concerns about compromising secret U.S. capabilities.
...
The U.S. officials said they have confirmed the authenticity of some of those recordings, including one in which the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Strelkov, claimed responsibility for shooting down a military transport plane at the time the Malaysian aircraft was struck.
Analysis comparing that audio clip to other confirmed recordings of Strelkov’s voice “confirmed these were authentic conversations,” one of the officials said.
...
“If you listen to Youtube you get that: ‘we’re finding civilians,’” a senior U.S. intelligence official said. Partly for that reason, the official said, “the most plausible explanation to me is [it was] a mistake.”
* * *
So once again no actual evidence... conjecture on 'unknown' recordings provided by Ukraine (ignoring for a moment the fact that the ones that have been released publicly have been proved false). Illustrations of a large Russian military base near the border of Ukraine... well is anyone surprised by that?
With a somewhat shocking lack of evidence, AP reports that US officials (on condition of anonymity) have stated that intelligence suggests Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was mistakenly shot down by separatists and can find no link to Russia.
However, the unnamed non-proof-providing officials believed Russia "created the conditions" for the downing of MH17. For now there is not even a YouTube clip to confirm this... as officials do not make the new technical evidence public...
As opposed to Russia's detailed 30-minute press conference,
- U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS DID NOT MAKE PUBLIC NEW TECHNICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT ASSERTION THAT PLANE WAS DOWNED BY SA-11 MISSILE OR THAT MISSILE WAS FIRED BY SEPARATISTS
- U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS SAY THEY BELIEVE PRO-RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS PROBABLY SHOT DOWN MALAYSIAN PASSENGER AIRLINER “BY MISTAKE"
As Bloomberg notes,
- OFFICIALS DISCUSS MH17 INTELLIGENCE ON CONDITION OF ANONYMITY
- U.S. CITES CLASSIFIED IMAGES MAKING CASE ON MH17 SHOOTDOWN
- U.S. OFFICIALS CONFIDENT IN DETECTION OF JULY 17 MISSILE LAUNCH
Senior U.S. intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.
They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia "created the conditions" for the downing by arming the separatists.
The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.
They said they did not know if any Russians were present at the missile launch, and they wouldn't say that the missile crew was trained in Russia.
A senior official said the most likely explanation was the plane was shot down by mistake.
So it seems like all we have is...
h/t @BarbaraStarrCNN
Which is right in the heart of separatist-held territory...
Satellite image shows spread of debris from Malaysia Airlines flight
* * *
So - to sum up - having told the world that they would release details surrounding intelligence about the MH17 disaster, US officials have pulled a "trust us" moment... blamed the "terrorists" and given themselves an out with Putin... all with absolutely no public proof whatsoever...
* * *
Which leaves us with one question - What happened between The White House and Putin (and perhaps Merkel) that ended with this lowering the tone of the debate?
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Hey, have you heard the latest on the illegal immigrant problem? Yeah, didn't think so.
"This is just like the Keystone Cops! But with sound !"
and nukes
http://www.vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/07/opening-remarks-of-vladimi...
Putin had an open door meeting of Russia's Security Council for the whole world to hear. Nothing is open door or transparent in the USA.
Anyway he makes incredible points about how countries are targeted and destabilized by the NWO/Zato. One of his best below.
However, ever more frequently today we hear of ultimatums and sanctions. The very notion of state sovereignty is being washed out. Undesirable regimes, countries that conduct an independent policy or that simply stand in the way of somebody’s interests get destabilized. Tools used for this purpose are the so-called color revolutions, or, in simple terms – takeovers instigated and financed from the outside.
ANd who is this Barbara Starr?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Starr
Diz is a biggest bullshitta!
These poor state dept fuckers have nothing! Just zero! Even pentagram want to wash their mouth in the piss!
Next, Mr. Putin, please kick them into the balls veeeery strongly! They must weep into christmas.
And then again.
Its time!
Kill few western banks, round up russian 5th column, make pedophiles of them. Never mind...
Put your ballistic missile defense to Cuba, why not? It will intercept iran missiles going at USEEEJ :)
Print billions of euro notes and buy whatever you want, just let them circulate.
Just make them weep and then finish them.
For what they did!
(and for us, the rest)
Doctoring boxes won't work. Not up against poor goat herders this time. The Ruskies actually have their own scientists, engineers, & intel experts.
See what happens when a well armed militia gets out of hand.
(Oh boy, I just couldn't resist any longer, sorry. It's a slow day anyway... Sorry, sorry, not really).
.
"Probably?"
Now that's what I call thorough.
What a fucking mess.
how can this be ? Oblameo says things are tranquil .
I suspect he's back into the choom.
Soon it's going to be impossible to fly directly between Europe and Southeast Asia. Yeah, real tranquil alright...
is this the same state department that said no way can 19 cave dwelling brothers of obama take down the world trade center?
or is it the same state department that says to crawl under a wood desk in the event of a nuclear fucking attack?
is it the same state department that says its in my best interest to be tapped without a warrant?
the best part of everyone at the state dept ran down their whore of a mother's leg
Double tapped, just to be sure.
(They got plenty of ammo...)
Never suspect Malice when Stupidity can be blamed.
You'll be right at least 90% of the time, and happier all the time.
.
Igor Kolomoisky makes the case for both. Don't be surprised to learn of his involvement with what happened to MH17.
Completely unacceptable behaviour from the US. Release the actual satellite photos immediately. We can then wait for the additional data which Russia has probably held back on...
For National Security reasons, your request is denied. Go F yourself.
Signed,
NSA
Clamp down on squeaky wheels, leaks, and domestic terrorists in 3,2,1...
To be followed by an encore performance of much death, mayhem and MIC spending
God,
I hope they are not using me as a source. And it is not a certainty. It could also be the West Ukrainians as far as I know.
If they are, I guess everyone who read my posts knows exactly and precisely how I reached my conclusions...because I tell how.
The local gun store "created conditions" for my shooting of a criminal.
Nevermind that i just want to be left alone in my yard and the criminal came to attack me.
"Trust me ... " - Barack Obama
Oh... Okay. Now the "honey trap" has been laid... It's ok if you just admit it was an accident, because we're talking out of our asses.
Sincerely,
Mr. Der Her Dahwa,
U.S. State Depeartment (Clown Division)
Kerry on his 10 speed, backpeddling.
Obama with egg on his face once again.
(Though there is rumor that's not egg.)
Just when Feinstein was getting me all patriotic with that "man up" talk.
Sen. Dianne Feinstein on Sunday urged Russian President Vladimir Putin to "man up" about the circumstances surrounding the downing of a Malaysian airliner in Ukraine.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2014/07/feinstein-to-putin-m...
accusation. denial. acceptance.
so now, if no evidence is released to prove the rebels did it, then it should be clear to everyone that it was not the rebels.
who does that leave again?
Impeach Joe Biden and his son.
Obungler lookin like a clown with his pants on the ground, pants on the ground.
@ Trader1
Definitely , Maybe!
Same morons that wrote ObangoCare, we have to blame Putin so we can find out whats in it.
Sounds like the US is lightening up on Russia in hopes of protecting Western Ukraine's 'smoking guns' that cannot be evidenced away or dismissed. The US must now know that Western Ukraine did it, that there is undeniable proof of 'odd' actions by Western Ukraine, and that their last hope is to cloud the 'who did it' part and spin it to make it look like a mistake.
I think they don't know, but are reacting to the same evidence you and I have.
Then they make 'INTEL' releases and Presidential Pronouncements as a way of retaining relevance.
That's why they will not provide any key evidence to this story other than youtube and twitter, plus what is posted above. The real evidence will show the farce that this administration is. There busted and can not reveal the "REAL" evidence because it will show it! So we'll go with "it must have been an accident" card. That way as long as it was accidental, well its just not as important anymore, WHOEVER did it.
The US knows Western Ukraine did it. Nudelman probably pushed the button.
The US capacity for compulsive lying is beyond classification. This pathological bull-shitting is getting tired and way too repetitive. This also means that they are not so good at it. Psychologist Charles Ford, author of the book Lies! Lies! Lies!. " says, the trick is to lie as little as possible - only when you actually have something to gain. "Pathological liars can't stop themselves from lying, so they tell a lot of little lies and wind up getting caught," he says. Truly expert fabricators, on the other hand, save their ammunition - they don't bother to lie unless it's going to get them something they really want. Ever since 9/11 the US deep state and their puppets just did not stop even to take a breath. It is just constant discharge of cheap lies. Now they even afraid to show any kind of evidence to back their story?!...Because the evidence will suck them even deeper into the black hole of endless lying.
You are right.
But they are not the only ones.
Lies are in plentiflul supply these days.
If lies were a stock I would short 'em.
It may look like a bubble, but believe me, there's still plenty of upside.
@ circle of DNA ' the US capacity for compulsive lying is classified '.
Great post. Close to perfect.
Does Hallmark have sympathy card for pathological liars?
Wait...Russia created the conditions?
What about the State Department, the CIA, Nuland, Kerry, McCain, et. al. supporting a neo-Nazi putsch in Russia's back yard?
Mooommm, he started it.
I don't care WHO started it, who BROKE the vase? MOOOMMMM....
Back that azz up!
Well, ya see... there are known knowns and there are unknown knowns
That's probably what did happen.
US undermines Ukrainian government and backs usual bat-shit-crazy people who would be involved in a government overthrow.
Russians get pissed off.
Russia undermines US backed Ukrainian government and backs usual bat-shit-crazy people who would be involved in a government overthrow.
Russians take Crimea and hold "vote".
Russian nationals in east Ukraine think it's all a game and hold "vote".
Russian doesn't acknowledge vote but ball is rolling.
Yokels in some cow-town are playing Starwars and shoot down airplane. (Dude, we didn't mean it, dude. Yeah, sorry dudes, really).
US and Russian children break moms favorite vase but there's nothing that can be done now.
I do not remember the part as you stated: Russians take Crimea and hold "vote".
I remember it as: Russians were already physically present and legally there by a binding contractual agreement between two sovereign Nations. Crimea voted without the inferred coercion that undertones your comment.
The "Autonomous Republic of Crimea" was just that before "they" voted themselves in alignment with Russia. A separate entity altogether from Ukraine. Once they seen the forceful takeover of the legitimate government of Ukraine I can see why they aligned themselves so quickly with Russia. Did you see the laws that were immediately passed by the new 'government'? Almost 60% of Crimea is Russian by ethnicity and you no longer recognize the Russian language as an official language?
But yes, keep with the "Russia TAKES Crimea and THEN votes".... Russia was there many many many decades before that vote ever took place.
EDIT: Governments --> Nations
They found out it was shot down by some drunk Ukrainians.
Casacks, actually. Those Casacks in ______ (town name), down the road.
More likely KAZAKY in 5 1/2 inch heels.
@RC
Dat's a Slur, Ukrainians don't drink when they're sleeping.
@Spainbuca = José Carlos Barrios Sánchez
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TtI859wjtNMJ:https:...
RIP, Jose. We hardly knew thee.
Maybe I'm taking the visual too literally but it's astronomically more difficult for a missile to hit a plane head on vs. tracking it from behind.
My money is on an air to air missile from close range. Ukraine fighter jet was at altitude within 10km of the airliner - would be an easy shot... minimal smoke trail... and easy to blame on anyone.
The shape of the dents on the wings should answer that question.
The wings were full of fuel.
If the wings had been hit by a missile the wings would have dissolved into palm-sized pieces of melted aluminum.
Instead they are on the ground.
If a plane shot it using a radar guided missile, the radar would guide the missile to the closest part of the fuselage of the aircraft - which would be the back.
If it were a SAM then the closest part would be the front...or the missile very possibly would run out of fuel before catching up.
In any case. If the missile damage is to the front it is a SAM.
If the missile damage is to the back it MIGHT be a SAM but more than likely was an Air-to-Air missile.
No one will know the answer until there is a joint investigation.
The few photos I saw of the debris field looked to me like the plane must have come down at speed in one piece, or very few pieces, with the cabin area in particular intact. Makes me think it was not a SAM at all, as that might just blow the cabin to tiny bits, shear the wings off, dump all the fuel, and scatter the debris over miles of countryside. Suggests instead that a smaller air-to-air missile took out an outboard engine or just the tail, and the plane then cratered mostly intact, and blew up and burned on the ground.
The cockpit recorder would have a very clear record either way.
Indeed, maybe the Russians have accessed the flight recorders as to my understanding they've only now just been handed over to investigators.
Why not release all the satellite imagery/data to support their case smells of Weapons of Mass deceit to me.
Makes sense...I notice photos of the horizontal stabilizer with part of the fusealage isolated in a field away from the larger crash scene.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/full-horror-malaysian-flight-mh17-warning-graph...
SA-17 missiles don't really hit head on... they detonate in front of the target, fragmenting 50-70kg of metal into shrapnel that makes swiss cheese out of the target... this does really nasty things to structural integrity, especially when said inegrity is mostly dependant on pressurization.
\APK
No.
The reverse is true.
The missile has very limited fuel range.
The closer the plane gets the the easier to hit.
Firing at the back of the plane, means the missile has to fly to where the plane WAS and then try and catch up.
And that is why the effective missile envelope is half the stated range.
A stern chase is a long chase.The royal navy had a sam back in the day that was
designed to explode in front of the target.It was not a frag warhead.It was two enormous
coiled 'springs' for want of a better word, that literally expanded, and cut the target in half.
Proximity fuses working on the combined speed of a head on attack need luck as well.
I think thats why the Su25 was there.To make sure and finish the aircraft off.
Which makes it totally premeditated.
That will not be good enough for this crowd, it's a Western op or nothing.
It was a western op or it was a mistake.
It wasn't a mistake. So ....
For someone that doesn't tolerate bullshit you are gullible as fuck.
I know for sure You are bullshit, I can smell it.
You better get a plate and a fork, 'cause there's a big ol' order of crow gettin' ready to be served up for you.
Bring it, son
It's a tough crowd at ZH. Even these jokes don't work.
My wife met me at the door the other night in a sexy negligee. Unfortunately, she was just coming home.
I told my wife the truth. I told her I was seeing a psychiatrist. Then she told me the truth: that she was seeing a psychiatrist, two plumbers, and a bartender.
With me, nothing goes right. My psychiatrist said my wife and I should have sex every night. Now, we'll never see each other!
My wife and I were happy for 20 years. Then we met.
(Big shout out to Rodney Dangerfield)
Hilarious.
They accomplished their goal though since the moronic sheeple will have believed Russia was responsible for it since that is what the U.S government and the presstitute media said right after it happened and no "oops, we were wrong" comments now will matter to them.
The majority of humans are too stupid and too out of it to ever look beyond first impressions or in this case first reports from the media. It's proven time after time this is how most of the useless species goes about their lives.
Can't wait until it is (probably) show the Ukraine did in fact shoot the plane down as that will get barely any mention at all form the media. I don't expect this to get much coverage either or if it does, the media will still word it in a way to make Russia so evil.
Oh and if Russia is to balme for "creating conditions" then are these same Americans ready to take responsibility for the drama in Iraq and everywhere else they've gone and pissed in? I'm guessing not. Solid double standard.
Talked to several people today who told me what an evil man that Putin was and that he needed to be stopped. They seem to have forgotten all the things they were bitching about in our country as of last week. The populance really is pathetic, but the reality of it is that ignorance is actually bliss in this world.
Tribalism is a wonderful thing. We wouldn't be here if the smart-n-savvy people couldn't create simple bullshit for the teaming-masses about why it's good to kill another human because of some arbitrary body attribute.
Look, I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to talk about this over the next 10 years or so, if that's what's needed. I'm offended that they even thought they could fool me with their crayon box. >:(
I'm given er all she's got El' Capitan... If I back pedal any faster I'll slip on all your banana peels.
This needs to be put to rest. There needs to be a joint investigation team including Malayasia, USA, Russia plus observers from everyone who has a direct interest.
This business of one untrusted party holding the black boxes, and then passing them under protest to another untrusted party is ridiculous. DO IT TOGETHER.
The focus should be on reconstructing what happened in an open way such that everyone can see it if someone is trying to hide something.
This ought to include a cease-fire from both parts of the Ukraine in the area, with a freeze of battlefield positions as they are, guaranteed safe passage for inspectors, guaranteed open access for inspectors.
The inspection will take a while - months I would think. But the families of the fallen deserve to know what happened.
In the meantime it will hopefully give everyone in the two Ukraines an opportunity to take a deep breath and consider whether they pursuing their goals in the best way.
The families of the fallen deserve to know?
All of us who WILL fall in WWIII when these crazy motherfuckers start it deserve to know.
Yes, but the next generation won't be able to ask anyone that lived through it. We're just now uncovering the connections and machinations that pulled Germany into WW2 only to be blamed for it later.
Winner takes all and winner writes history. That's how war works.
Which is another argument why it would be good for everyone to take a break for consideration.
I think that's what just happened. The US just said Russia isn't "directly responsible". This allows things to go back to pre-shootdown normal (sanctions). The yokels in eastern-Ukraine have probably had the keys-of-the-missile jalopy taken away from them, so they can go back to shooting at each other again leaving the world travelers alone.
Check the questions one reporter asked... "So, you've only got youtube and social media? " Press bitch thinks Ukes downing the plane with CIA would be illogical. Sure bitch.
http://youtu.be/oQRvINebeok
Unbelievable ... questions for the lady:
1) Why doesnt your government use its leverage with the Ukrainian gov to secure immediate release of the unclassified information included in the Air Traffic Controller communication, which would serve to at least partially disprove Russian allegations, if false?
2) Can we talk to your mother or father, or perhaps an adult that works in your organization?
I am shocked at the quality of human talent fronting this show... zero charisma and believability ... either i underestimate the depth of the lowest common denominator in the US of A, or TPTB aren't even trying to fool people anymore.
Obama's foreign policies have all turned out to be disasters.Here's an example,send Victoria Nuland over to Ukraine to hand out cookies to a bunch of neo-nazi thugs overthrowing a broke socialist hellhole.You can't make this stuff up but who or what stupid goddam quacks and opium smokers in Government come up with this shit?Now send the crooks over there billions of Dollars too.
That didn't take long. Must have realized in their game theories that all capital from this event/story has been used up already. How long have the boxes been in the UK? Enough time for Cameron to call Obama and letting him know that no matter how hard they tried, it will be difficult to make a solid case?
Russia could go for the jugular now but that's not their style. Russia has ALL the leverage. US can only hope that DWTS or AI will erase American's memory chips again quickly.
Pretty much no flights in&out of Israel. No escaping by land either. Not sure whether we are all safer as a result or if Israel is the safest place to be as they work hard in pulling the rest of the world into global war?
Anyway, if it gets really bad in Israel they only need to resurrect Charlton Heston to come and part the Mediterranean for safe passage to Cyprus!
But first you have to pry him from Death's cold dead hands.
Merkel and Putin told Obama to stop the bullmanure before he falls into it himself.
Brave sir bama he bravely fled and he bravely ran.
So sang the minstrel before he was eaten.
Well hes in dire need of a shrub at the moment..
He's got great gigs in Seattle and Hollywood ... who would blame him for not wanting to stay in DC. And he does have to get ready for Martha's Vineyard.
Talk about a backpedal.
For those old enough to remember Saturday morning cartoons, you can hear the schreeching of the feet as they attempt to reverse direction.
The US have reached their goal, the EU is going to impose more sanctions on Russia and will get burned.
You know the EU, once they decided....
"For now there is not even a YouTube clip to confirm this" When has youtube become the international rule of law????
last thursday
Has ZH always been a Russian propaganda site or is this a new thing?
lots of Natanyawad's highschool students joinin' up lately. how do you say "troll" in Hebrew?
It's always been anti Obama. Putin is a manly man. Obama is a gurly man. It's a natural "fit", so to speak.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend?
Putin speaks calmly, plainly and intelligently using logic. The Russians appear to treat most countries with respect while the USA invents coups, terrorists threats and other lies to go kill and steal.
Excerpt of a Putin speech today to the Russian Security Council in an OPEN door meeting:
http://www.vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/07/opening-remarks-of-vladimi...
However, ever more frequently today we hear of ultimatums and sanctions. The very notion of state sovereignty is being washed out. Undesirable regimes, countries that conduct an independent policy or that simply stand in the way of somebody’s interests get destabilized. Tools used for this purpose are the so-called color revolutions, or, in simple terms – takeovers instigated and financed from the outside.
Putin speaks his mind, leads.
Obama reads the output of truly vile propagandists.
Let's see. A low level NSA IT worker who saw something and said something, is only truly safe in Russia. This ain't the land of the free amigo, it's the land of zombie slaves and mass theft via the Fed.
Oh, when are you moving to Moscow? Ask a Russian if he/she would rather live in USA and you will find that Mother Russia may be a good place to be from but not a very good place to be in
Once the FEMA camps come online.
Don't you get it? It ain't about "Wanting to move to Moscow" or "Liking Putin".
It's about truth. It's about knowing the sober truth about all of them. It's about not only listening to them but also watching what they do. It's about reading all the backstories weighing them all against each other to find?
The truth hopefully.
It's NOT Red team vs Blue team on a global level. There ain't no Good Guys out there.
Do I want to move to Moscow? Phuk no, I was born here and I'm staying.
(And I am awakening every one I can, one at a time to help to get to the 100th monkey)
heh, you are in trouble now, FM.
And rightly so. And - as I recall - like your goodself, he just doesn't get it.
He might like to consider that folks on ZH want THE TRUTH, not lies and propaganda. ZH-ers are far too way ahead of the curve to soak up all that adolescent bullcrap that spews out.
I eat trouble for breakfast.
"want the truth". Good luck seeing it, pilgrim.
Please do not ignore that in an accountable democracy, it is essential that government conducts itself in accordance with the wishes of the people it purports to represent. Even more so in a Constitutional Republic. Otherwise we might as well admit that we live in a tyranny.
Few can honestly deny that Obama and his gang of cronies are out of control. Same problem in other Western countries. Some of them are marching us to war with lies and propaganda.
Wise heads can see this. Those who go into denial are in fact supporting the madness.
Only the people can bring an end to this madness. There is nobody else to do it.
Your calculated down arrow obsession has been a success without measure..Congrats..
Jr. High down votes here let me know I'm on the right track. Most posters here like to be on the same bandwagon and bunch up together for the comfort it affords.
A fucking reality site..... Fucktard!!!
Funny Money
An Obvious FED Troll.
Go print some more money Bitch.
15 weeks. They roll on and roll off I think.
eye think we should hold on a cotton pickin minuteman heres.
this smells and tastes likes a russki shit sandwich
if mcain says putin did it god damn it why would a vietcong vet hero lie he has nothing to gains from dis he not connected wid monsantoes or chevrons
der grey graphics above is concrete and rock solid case for ww3 we got dem hungry russian dopes on der ropes fellas
lets roll
Mark Sleboda vs a typical BBC Presstitute
Der cole slaw got dun smeli frum tu much gray poopon. Da frogs hoppin evrewere. Boats and such maks me chukle like der katsup queen herse hed.
Translation: French warships to Russia on schedule.
These are the same DC US criminals that said that there were WMDs in Iraq, Bin Laden was dumped overboard, Oswald shot JFK and the dog ate my hard drives. LOL
“It isn’t lying if it’s all bullshit.”
In 72 years, I never before thought I'd ever be embarassed for my country, but I am.
With all respect. What took you so long?
If Vietnam or the Weapon of Mass Delusion didn't embarrass you, there's not much hope.
you still buy 9/11? i know it took a long time to really 'come out' - but, a guy in a cave didn't direct a few saudi's into how to get into usa, manage to be funded, learn to fly and hijack 747's.... besides the way all the building that came down and all the odd stuff that was witnessed.
as a friend says 'it's just too hard for me to believe, if the people that were involved didn't talk. somebody would have talked'.
#1 - who? we still don't know who killed jfk - and the warren reports have NOT been released in full.
who is going to talk about 9/11? anybody on the inside involved believed it was the right thing to do. and if they didn't, they want to live.... they probably still believe it was right. only a few people died relative to the 'benefit' for the usa and the rest of the world. some people belive that kind of stuff.
#2 - somebody has to want to listen. the average american (and all the europeans also) have moved on. 'but, i saw it with my own eyes on t.v. - they explained it to me, the arabs did it'. 'they hate us for their liberties'. etc. the average person doesn't care at this point. the arabs did it, and that's a fact. the t.v. doesn't lie. i saw it...... people don't care at this point, and their memory serves and it is what it is. jesus was born from a virgin 2,000 years ago, a nice little blond hair blue eye baby in the heart of the middle east. that's what i believe - don't change the story on me now. my life is fine with what i know.
get it?
Threats to you and your loved ones can AND DO keep people quiet, every day.
Did the world know about the Manhattan Project, simply because many people were involved? Idiocy... Its called compartmentalization. People may not even realize they were involved.
This is astonishing. Are these State Dept whistleblowers or what? Should we expect to see some more suicides? or rapid departures from US soil?
I expect all those in Washington/London and elsewhere plus the MSM who have been peddling the "Putin did it" narrative plus the dozens of lying talking heads wheeled on TV news programmes will all now line up and make a public apology.
Of course we all know they won't do that because they are venal, spineless cowards only interested in blatherng scripted lies spewed out by their respective governments.
In the UK, let me name a few of the known peddlers of lies and false propaganda who must publicly apologise:
- Every single daily newspaper: Times/Telegraph/Sun/Mirror/Express/Mail/Independent
- BBC
- Sky News
- Channel 4 News
- Prime Minister David Cameron, Foreign Office and every member of his lying, crony government who has commented about MH17 and Putin's responsibility for it.
In the US, the list must be 10x longer and starts with Obama and Kerry.
Behind the scenes...
Most intelligence agencies get their information from 'open sources'.
This means sitting in the bar where the military people go and listening to them talk.
It means reading the magazines and industry literature.
Only in a minority of cases does an intelligence technical system or covert spy get invovled, because to get involved is to risk the existence of the operative or system.
...despite costing taxpayers' $millions$.
Heh... try $80 BILLION a year. Plus $3.1 billion to Israel every year (because they got the inside dope on our treasonous congress - I'm guessing some kind of pedophilia tag team like the Brits have).
"$80 BILLION a year"
No problem, I print that every month.
Regards, Ben Bernanke
;-)
yeah great risk indeed. NSA, anyone?
The rebs gave up the boxes, when is the West going to give up all the stuff they grabbed from Kiev tower?
now that the 'blackboxes' are going to UK, kiev will probably soon release the 'unedited' air traffic tapes and they will be a perfect match with the also 'unedited' 'blackboxes' !! we just have to give them lets say 1 or 2 days (after arrival of the boxes in UK)
Maybe the Russians made a copy first, to discourage editing. Maybe thats why this backtracking from the US. Kiev looks like they set it up and maybe had the Russian missiles on standby in case the seperatists didn't get the job done, maybe they even used them (seperatists have no aircraft so who would Kiev be shooting at?) Imagine if those boxes are damning and Russia can show Porkchops forces fired, it would be an undeniable false flag, even if the seperatists did fire because they were deliberately set up for that, also a false flag. Putin let Obama save face with Syria, maybe he's doing it again, or maybe not this time, we'll see.
"perebrassivat kakashki" isn't working for anyone.
We need cooler heads in charge.
There needs to be a Joint investigation into the crash.
Malaysian Airlines needs to be involved.
Russia, who manufactured whatever weapon (if it was a weapon) destroyed the plane, needs to be involved.
The US - Boeing - who manufactured the plane needs to be involved.
There needs to be observers from all countries with an interest. The observers need to be aviation experts. It would be better if they could also speak Russian or Ukrainian.
The whole affair must be done in the most open possible way, so that it is not possible to hide or change evidence without everyone knowing it.
A cease fire, at least in that area, will need to be in place, with unrestricted access for investigators.
Until we have that there will be no clarity, the accusations will fester and grow on both sides. More 'kakashki' will be thrown. It is that simple.
It is a war, collateral damage happens. But the best way to put conspiracy fears to rest is to do everything under the eyes of observers.
Refusing to do this will only make the fears and conspiracies grow.
Calmer heads need to prevail.
What do people think of the Russian evidence? Specifically, do you think these radar images are legit?
Russian evidence?. Its solid, radar is too
it really doesn't matter. both sides and their supporters have made up their minds without any confirmable evidence.
the fact that the US has lied about everything doesn't mean russia is telling the truth.
"Specifically, do you think these radar images are legit?"
The US had a satellite overhead so they could disprove them if they weren't legit.
Blowing the pitch - Jack Dee in Lead Balloon - BBC comedy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPUQIBARnjU (1:05)
~//~
Let Your Love Flow - Bellamy Brothers Lyrics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4Bl_VQ2inM (3:22)
Vlad has been calling for peace over there ...why would he shoot down civilians.He did not invade anything,he protected his sub base and existing base.
Now Obama on the other hand ........ Yea....
Who invades and kills civilians all over the planet ....HMMM
Its for the children. Ya
Please excuse me I must go puke.
Condolences to the surviving families.
Currently, warmonger HuffPost has this front page. Warmonger Drudge hasn't yet addressed it.
Warmonger CNN has some BS story about a Ukrainian claiming a Russian did it.Wamongers CBS, ABC, and NBC are trying to ignore it so far...
I'm guessing Putin bluffed with a pair of deuces and the warmonger DoState didn't want to pay to see the cards.
Russia obviously didn't have anything to do with this but Putin didn't have the goods to lay this at the feet of Obama. This will be swept under the rug ASAP. Kudos to us peons out there for not joining FOX and MSNBC in beating the war drums. I think people are starting to get it....
My tin plated theory is Putin was rope a doping- once the parties were fully committed then acted on it he then releases actual pics which we should also have to the the Dutchies proving to the Northern Euros they were used as pawns; once establishing major cred on the subject he then releases data confirming what other nonsense has been going on to destabilize the region making a clear case for accepting a logical answer..
..bottom line, someone is guilty of committing mass murder and someone has verifiable proof..."contradictions do not exist, check your premises and you will find that one of them is wrong".. - liars always have to jump the shark and hope the public is too stupid to connect even one dot, then move the target and it's worked lately.
Without a clean investigation which it doesn't look like we are going to see, not much can be said except it was a deliberate act, and selling it as some complicated shadow double play engineered by Putin is gonna be a hard sell in the face of hard data, and from the way they are acting the usual suspects are down to throwing both shit as well as chaff.
His waiting to me indicates he was just letting enough rope to be taken to close the argument once they commit.
bbc as usual had chatham house guy on.
he said all along we did not believe russia was directly involved : )
strange as another chatham guy a couple of days ago was screamin putin this hitler that.
something big happened behind the scenes chatham house is rothschild front super important something has gone wrong with this talmudic story arc.
putin may have had telephone recordings of plotting rabbis
To be a fly on the wall.....
There will probably be a few flies on or in that wall.. including the NSA's fly if they have the time to spare... been pretty busy watching our emails ya know- hey you can't watch everything!! ya gotta prioritize.
From all of us here, A BIG FUCKU to that Ziocunt Vicky "Israel First" Nuland and her 9/11 planning zoo animal husband. Let's burn them alive!
For the State Dept to come out and unofficially admit that MH17 was shot down by rebels by "accident" is a simplistic attempt to get themselves off the hook before Putin produces yet more evidence to blow them out of the water.
If indeed it was shot down by accident, it adds huge credibility to the view that Ukraine itself set the whole thing up with its fighter jet trailing MH17 which then caused the rebels to believe they were about to be attacked.
This makes Poroshenko directly responsible for it and he goes right back to Washington/Langley.
It's time the cowards fessed up.
let me tighten my tin foil hat.
what about nato drills on the black sea. how difficult would it be to change the ping of an airliner to something more military. just add a trailing fighter jet or two for the final touch and voilà. why else would you classify all the flight traffic control data?
leave it to the enemy to pull the trigger and just document the incident.
If Putin is hanging incriminating satellite photos over Kerry's head, then maybe Putin's speech to his Security Council today makes more sense. It sounded like a lot of code, transmitted to more than one audience.
http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/22714
Putin probably sent the state dept video of Vicky the cookie wench on the joy stick operating a missile system and shouting "Fuck the Malaysians" and gave them 24 hours to back off before dumping it on YouTube.
First they scream its 'Putin' then they get the MSM to parrot them. Now this. What deal was made overnight? Or did the Western industrialists finally get thru saying 'we are in no shape economically. Hard sanctions will crash our fragile economies'.
This shows Obama the marrionette is being pullled in all directions by psychos, and hes one also
I think Germany is threatening to join the Anti-Bolshevik Federation and that is scaring the piss out of even the satanic hardcore Rothschild cabal.
Germany and it's banks still have deep connections to the Rothschilds. That is where they and a lot of the famous banking houses originated.
Yes but things are not going well in the world of fiat and deep in their hearts Germans don't like jude