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US State Department "Confident" MH17 "Mistakenly" Downed By Separatists, Finds No Direct Link To Russia
UPDATE: Having failed absymally with their earlier release of "information," US intelligence officials have tried to give more information... sadly this does not include any actual evidence, just statements and confirmation of YouTube clips...
Senior U.S. intelligence officials cited sensors that traced the path of the missile, shrapnel markings on the downed aircraft, voiceprint analysis of separatists claiming credit for the strike, and a flood of photos and other data from social media sites.
The officials also for the first time identified a sprawling Russian military installation near the city of Rostov as the main conduit of Russian support to separatists in Ukraine, describing it as a hub of training and weapons that has expanded dramatically over the past month. The officials said that tanks, rocket launchers and other arms have continued to flow into Ukraine
...
Senior U.S. intelligence officials said they have ruled out the possibility that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the attack.
“That is not a plausible scenario,” said one senior U.S. official, who noted that American intelligence agencies have confirmed that Ukraine had no anti-aircraft missile system within range of the Malaysian flight at the time it was struck.
...
The official was one of three senior U.S. intelligence officials who spoke on condition of anonymity during a briefing arranged for reporters in Washington
...
“We are seeing a full-court press by the Russian government to instruct affiliated or friendly elements to manipulate the media environment to spread Russia’s version of the story,” the official said. “What this looks like again is a classic case of blaming the victims.”
...
The officials also declined to provide more details on the satellites and other sophisticated sensors that enabled them to trace the path of the missile, citing concerns about compromising secret U.S. capabilities.
...
The U.S. officials said they have confirmed the authenticity of some of those recordings, including one in which the self-proclaimed defense minister of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Igor Strelkov, claimed responsibility for shooting down a military transport plane at the time the Malaysian aircraft was struck.
Analysis comparing that audio clip to other confirmed recordings of Strelkov’s voice “confirmed these were authentic conversations,” one of the officials said.
...
“If you listen to Youtube you get that: ‘we’re finding civilians,’” a senior U.S. intelligence official said. Partly for that reason, the official said, “the most plausible explanation to me is [it was] a mistake.”
* * *
So once again no actual evidence... conjecture on 'unknown' recordings provided by Ukraine (ignoring for a moment the fact that the ones that have been released publicly have been proved false). Illustrations of a large Russian military base near the border of Ukraine... well is anyone surprised by that?
With a somewhat shocking lack of evidence, AP reports that US officials (on condition of anonymity) have stated that intelligence suggests Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was mistakenly shot down by separatists and can find no link to Russia.
However, the unnamed non-proof-providing officials believed Russia "created the conditions" for the downing of MH17. For now there is not even a YouTube clip to confirm this... as officials do not make the new technical evidence public...
As opposed to Russia's detailed 30-minute press conference,
- U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS DID NOT MAKE PUBLIC NEW TECHNICAL EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT ASSERTION THAT PLANE WAS DOWNED BY SA-11 MISSILE OR THAT MISSILE WAS FIRED BY SEPARATISTS
- U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS SAY THEY BELIEVE PRO-RUSSIAN SEPARATISTS PROBABLY SHOT DOWN MALAYSIAN PASSENGER AIRLINER “BY MISTAKE"
As Bloomberg notes,
- OFFICIALS DISCUSS MH17 INTELLIGENCE ON CONDITION OF ANONYMITY
- U.S. CITES CLASSIFIED IMAGES MAKING CASE ON MH17 SHOOTDOWN
- U.S. OFFICIALS CONFIDENT IN DETECTION OF JULY 17 MISSILE LAUNCH
Senior U.S. intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.
They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia "created the conditions" for the downing by arming the separatists.
The officials briefed reporters Tuesday under ground rules that their names not be used in discussing intelligence related to last week's air disaster, which killed 298 people.
They said they did not know if any Russians were present at the missile launch, and they wouldn't say that the missile crew was trained in Russia.
A senior official said the most likely explanation was the plane was shot down by mistake.
So it seems like all we have is...
h/t @BarbaraStarrCNN
Which is right in the heart of separatist-held territory...
Satellite image shows spread of debris from Malaysia Airlines flight
* * *
So - to sum up - having told the world that they would release details surrounding intelligence about the MH17 disaster, US officials have pulled a "trust us" moment... blamed the "terrorists" and given themselves an out with Putin... all with absolutely no public proof whatsoever...
* * *
Which leaves us with one question - What happened between The White House and Putin (and perhaps Merkel) that ended with this lowering the tone of the debate?
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Naw, he's just a moronic dupe
BullSHit!
The good news is that like the US Syrian rhetoric last year, another attempt at starting WW 3 appears to have failed.
The bad news is that "the planners, instigators and financiers" of these various "coincidences" are still not publicly identified.
If you were them, possibly angered and frustrated by the incompetence and buffoonery of your political minions - what would be your next moves?
A large terrorist attack somewhere. It's all that's left for the slimeballs.
well, ww3 was planned to avoid the global economic collapse. back to plan A, i guess. i'm not sure it will go down without major casualties.
Sounds like the Washinton goobers are trying to backpedal softly by cover of night without losing too much face. They had probably hoped that their overheated lunatic rhetoic of the last few days would cause the Europeans to freak out enough to join them in slapping major sectoral sanction on Russia. When the EU met earlier today and just did some more stalling and tongue-wagging, the Washington goobers decided to go back to the drawing board and await the next opprtunity to drive a fatal wedge between Europe and Russia or perhaps just create another one. Stay tuned to the continuing drama of "As the World Burns".
Folks we see this over and over. Sandy Hoax, Boston bombing and other things. They create a false flag or something and when it does not go their way - the story goes down a memory hole. Buildings are billdozed and evidenced is hauled away and destroyed. Like iron beams from the World Trade Center that melted.
Oklahoma City buildings blown up and it is evil white males who are the problem. Assad was the guy who gassed his own people. The capture of Bin Laden, who Benazir Bhutto said died 10+ years ago then she gets whacked. But once we capture and killed him, we had to quickly bury him at sea.
Every day is a new lie or distraction. This was also a distraction from Gaza being destroyed. A small area the size of a city with no army being attacked by an army. A new data another "terrorist" attack, false flag, endless lies.
I don't watch shit TV and no longer listen to the radio. I turn on the radio for a second the other night and "conservative" talk radio was blaming Russian rebels and Putin plus running with the Russians are drunks talking points. All the media is controlled.
Founding Fathers;
I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”
? Thomas Jefferson
When the going gets tough, the tough get going!
Zero; When decisions get tough, jump in the "choom wagon"...
I think the rise of modern finance/banking and standing armies may be related!
Before the 'wonders of finance'/public debt it was difficult to mobilize an army for an offensive campaign. You had to have hard currency to give the troops, or give them free reign to pillage. Which didn't usually end well. Usually turned into raping and pillaging, which in turn led to vendetta and bad blood...
These days they just wire some 10100001010101010s to your 'account'. For the time being, any way, its that easy.
Maybe they should tell Obama and Kerry?
the call to put boots on the ground may have
cause some thinking people to request a rewrite
of the narrative. nato boots on the ground might
result in an inextricable escalation, drawing more
attention from the people of europe. then, the struggling
political and financial powers that be might find it
even more difficult to get away with their financial
and monetary in-comprehensions.
.
not to mention russia seems generously capable
with the rope and letting it out for
their adversaries to hang themselves.
are the ones who choose to scheme,
shadow box and murder innocents for political
advantage prepared for an adversary
capable of producing real evidence in this financial
world war III?
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2014/07/is-new-brics-bank-chall...
19 JULY 2014
Is the New BRICS Bank a Challenge To US Global Monetary Power?
.
when the whales do battle , the shrimp suffer. true or no?
.
"deep financial markets", interesting term. (derivatives)
here an excellent debate.
the great and infinite scam, ongoing. spilling into
state sanctioned murder at/near borders.
.
Good one here too by Dr. Jim Willie who has been right on target on many many things.
Germany has finally thrown in the towel and is pivoting to the east towards Russia and away from the USA and UK. German business and industry is not happy about this manufactured Ukraine coup and crisis. Only one of the reasons but a big reason.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1405540920.php
Germany Secretly Planning on Joining BRICSJim Willie says no matter who shot down the Malaysian commercial jet over Ukraine recently, there is going to be massive fallout.
Willie contends, “Here’s the big, big consequence. The U.S. is basically telling Europe you have two choices here. Join us with the war against Russia. Join us with the sanctions against Russia. Join us in constant war and conflicts, isolation and destruction to your economy and denial of your energy supply and removal of contracts. Join us with this war and sanctions because we’d really like you to keep the dollar regime going.
http://usawatchdog.com/germany-secretly-planning-on-joining-brics-jim-wi...
now that the 'blackboxes' are going to UK, kiev will probably soon release the 'unedited' air traffic tapes and they will be a perfect match with the also 'unedited' 'blackboxes' !! we just have to give them lets say 1 or 2 days (after arrival of the boxes in UK)
U.S.-- "Remember when we said we were positive Russia was behind this? Yeah, about that.... "
Friggin jackasses
Clearly this false flag didn't manufacture enough outrage among the awakening masses to start WWIII. I bet McCain is pissing his depends.....
Yeah when they dust for prints, his are gonna be all over this one.
the state department and administration are counting
on the public being dumber than they themselves are,
but something has gone wrong. it used to work that way.
aw snap
Opinion and emotion rule the airwaves for the greater good: Fuck off with your facts and logic and get with the program, or do you need some time out at club FEMA?
Oh, oh. Beware of Obirdbrains bearing "classified and secret evidence". The last time he pulled that, he almost attacked Syria.
I guess this time he'll attack Crimea.
If you're getting nervous waiting for the the black box evidence to be published and are worried the CIA got to it first, do what I do.
I just say 'Ryan Fogle" over and over and over again.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ryan+fogle&oq=ryan+fogle&aqs=chrome..69i...
This is simply an "offramp" opportunity for Putin...the west hopes he will take it and begin to distance himself from the freedom fighters. Significant gamble in that the west has now used up their "complicit" chip in doing so, showing how wrong they were initially. If Putin can't prove it was Ukraine, he's in a box and might make them think he'll take the offramp.
So remember ZH bitches and Yids: your government loves you and every thing they do is for your benefit. They want you to be prosperous and happy and warm during the global cooling/warming/taxing, etc. they would NEVER lie to you, Puppet (Pearl Harbor, Vietnam, Lusitania, USS Liberty, Sandy Hook, 911, Northwoods Document, NSA, etc. etc. etc.)... or cum in your mouth, so suck harder.
Why not Trust the State Department?
Did they try to come up with a motive and realize that no one is that dumb?
And "pro-Russian separatists", we mean Ukrainians who speak Russian who are trying to secede from the neo-fascist government in Kiev that's carrying out an ethnic cleansing operation against Ukrainians. And here's the boners about "knowing" it was the separatist: who exactly in the Ukrainian army is loyal to the insane nazis in Kiev?
Certainly not those guys whose wives and children are refugees in Rostov-on-Don. One story out there has the Ukraine government separating fighting-age males from the population of internally displaced persons (refugees) and conscripting them into the army.
Meanwhile...... FEDGOV backed "freedom fighters", using US made weapons, slaughter thousands of Christians in Syria and Northern Iraq. I guess your atrocity must fall out of the sky in order for it to count as an atrocity.
The propaganda rollout by the White House staff has been terrible
IMHO. The American Government botched their PSYOPS campaign so bad that they are in retreat. FRrankly, this is for the best IMHO. Americans
en masse should start hollering louder with respect to getting the CIA out of Ukraine just so the global village can diplomatically repair the damage done. Americans would be best off taking a different tack with Foriegn
Affiars. Stop the aggression with every other country in the world. The USA is going to find itself isolated if this aggression through the CIA
keeps up. Do a 180 if the USA has anger management issues. See a Psychiatrist about the politicians too. Clearly, the CIA is ordered to get you into these problems time and time again, America. Leadership is responsible for the inane decision making and those inane idiots are right there tell the President of the United States of America how to stick his feet in more crap-O-la every single day. The problem is not with O'Bummer. The problem is with O'Bummer's staff/advisors.
Can someone explain what being confident of a probability means?
Occam's razor,,,
Take the solution with the least amount of assumptions......or probabilities/veriables..
Beyond that it's a shitstorm..
60% of the time, it works every time.
It means they don't understand combinatorics & probability.
First, read up on Probability Theory. Second, read up on Confidence Intervals and Probability. Third, then take a peek at Decision Theory.
At this point you should be off to the races and confident that you are able to direct yourself in terms of education.
NOTE: A probability of p=1.0 means that the probability is 100% certain.
A probability of p=0.98 means that the probability is 98% certain. A probability of p=0.05 means that the probability is 5% certain. Confidence
in a probability would depend on the methodology used and the statistics used in conjunction with the experimental question asked by the experimental design. In brief, confidence is dependent upon numerous factors surrounding the research question and the methodology used to answer that question.
p.s. take a look at Inferential Statistics texts. William L. Hays is the best that I know of.
Translation = The U.S. is afraid of Russia.
And Putin's cool wait and see.....He will suck them into the failure.....Chess / Checkers
..Translation = The U.S. is afraid of Russia..
..with damn good reason, there are adults in the Russian government; can you imagine what contempt they have about a country that would even consider this chickenlegged asshatt being taken seriously?
You just know he has some raw data on the leader of the free world.
Neighbor of mine is from Rostov-on-Don, in touch with family, says residents of the city are basically unworried about what's going on in Ukraine, it's Ukrainians versus Ukrainians and you know what they're like, but they are highly annoyed at the 150,000 refugees from there who are taking up resources, and what they know about the situation is entirely what they get from the internal Russian news media.
Apparently huge numbers of refugees now in Russia.
FWIW.
Strange. Why are these refugees going to 'bad' Putin's Russia? Wouldn't they have a better, safe and glittery dolce vita if they went to Poland or Czech Republic? Heck, some of them could even make it as refugees to U.K., Canada or the U.S. via that route. /s
Because Russia is a multi-national country where most nationalities have been living peacefully for centuries.
A Ukrainian is almost indistinguishable from a Russian. Nobody will shout at her, "Go home!", like in Poland.
+1 The quoted below U.N. statistics is from almost a month ago. According to the U.N., 110,000 Ukrainians fled to Russia and only 750 to Poland, Czech Republic Romania and Belarus combined. I leave it without comment as it speaks volumes by itself:
UN: 110,000 fled Ukraine for Russia this year
GENEVA (AP) — Some 110,000 Ukrainians have fled this year for Russia and another 54,000 have fled their homes but stayed in the country as Ukraine fights separatist rebels, the U.N. refugee agency said Friday.
Only 9,500 of those fleeing for Russia have sought refugee status but many others are too afraid of future reprisals if they do return to Ukraine to make a formal request, said agency spokeswoman Melissa Fleming, citing official Russian figures and other U.N. information.
Another 750 Ukrainians have requested refugee status in Poland, Belarus, Czech Republic and Romania, according to U.N. figures.
/cut/
East Ukrainians trying to escape the fighting, and fleeing to the west, would have to cross western Ukraine - where they would encounter roadblocks run by Right Sector thugs. Ukrainian license plates identify the region the owner of the car is from.
The odds of making it all the way from Donestk to Slovakia or wherever would be vanishingly small. Russia is the only place to escape to.
Sheeeit .... I was hoping I would get to see a live CNN broadcast of John McCain riding the Big One into Moscow while shouting "We are all Russians", just like Slim Pickens did in Dr. Strangelove.
Oh well, maybe next time.... Stay tuned to the continuing USA-made-for-cable TV drama "As the World Burns".
Hey.. Wm banzi - that is a great optic.. js sayin'
Well, the USA operates multi-billion-dollar satellites and can't produce images of SAMs crossing the Russian border and moving aroung the Ukraine.
The Russian military said that an American satellite was flying just above the Malaysian airplane. Where are photos?
This source says: http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-u...
From an America point of view, this is probably the second weakest position that can be taken, the weakest being to say that the Ukrainians themselves shot the plane down.
So its a move which says to Russia, disown the separatists and we won't punish you for MH17. Which from a Russian point of view is better than being blamed for active participation.
So what does Russia do? Disown the separatists or push on with more proof about who the Russians think shot down MH17?
The problem with disowning the separatists is that then they'll likely get wiped out by the Ukrainian military and any other 'helpers' that the Ukrainians have.
That would be too easy....my bet is that Putin has kept an ace up his sleeves and the gringos know it. P must have images of the Western Facscists themselves doing the nasty, and the turd in Dc knows it. Merkel must know it too. So, the lying warmongers decided to tone it down....or else!
Watch what putin and obama do, not what they say. Putin will say he disowns rebels but it has nothing to do with what he will do. Same as any other politician.
Was MH17 really MH370 with those passengers. Rotting corpses?
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/
The crash site photo shows the fuselage by a door that is MH 370.
somewhere in all this i bet there is a Rumsfeld/Hussein styles handshake pic.
"What happened between The White House and Putin (and perhaps Merkel) that ended with this lowering the tone of the debate?"
If the US has satellite info on the missile launch and the Russians are telling the truth about the Ukraine air force Su-25 appearing on radar after MH17 went down then the US satellite will have picked up the Su-25 also - which begs the question what was it doing there?
The USA has lost Germany. The relationship is pretty much over.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldenJackass/1405540920.php
http://usawatchdog.com/germany-secretly-planning-on-joining-brics-jim-wi...
Another indepth Willie interview!
"Russia created the conditions for the downing."
So that wasn't Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland that was caught redhanded on tape scheming to overthrow the legitimate goverment in Kiev after all.
Perhaps it was shot down in retaliation for the failure of Jews to register in Donetsk...
who gives a rats ass what state thinks
tells us what nsa tapes show and the intel sattelites show and what on the ground intel reports...
state is a bunch of dildo riders
It's even worse; during the last few days old John McCain had his first wood since the Syrian crisis and now it's gone limp. Poor old guy. He just can't catch a break when it comes to starting WW3 with those damned evil Russkies
Lindsey will fluff him for awhile
Lindsey will fluff him for awhile
Next one U.S. INTELLIGENCE OFFICIALS SAY THEY BELIEVE PRO-Ukraine-nazi PROBABLY SHOT DOWN MALAYSIAN PASSENGER AIRLINER “BY MISTAKE"
No way USA admited that 777 was shot down by ukraine jet...PUSSIES
I am somewhat relieved, because I had the feeliing over the past few days that we had entered the penumbra of a much darker shadow.
But there is always the possibility of the unforeeen incident. May God forbid.
Unfortunately they'll keep trying.
Am having severe doubts about NSA's capability!!!( excuse me, knock on the door ).
The US/ German double Agent gets collared ( they couldn't protect him ).
As much as i've sung his praises Edward Snowden has not produced any more than was out there; plus his dodgy relationship with Greenwald ( RothsGuardian ) AND failure to acknowledge 9/11 inconsistencies. Hope to be proven wrong here.
One more point re USSA deflecting direct Russian involvement; Unable to get the Germans/EU to agree harder hitting sanctions and therefore save face is an unknown known.
Sorry must congratulate David Cameron in finding his own way to save face by bringing up the old polonium affair and laying it directly at Putin's door. WANKER
So how does that play into the U.S. and "the Jews" want to go to war with Russia meme that is so popular here?
No answers and no down arrows.....Is this thing on?
Something went wrong. I assume something to do with the Ukraine air force Su-25.
99.7% of (Western) experts agree on this, so it must be, but we'll concede that it might be less than it is. Damn, I was so hoping to take the good old Urban Assault Vehicle for a long ride in the east this weekend.
And then there is the deafening silence of the Krauts for the last couple of days.... Did Heir Angela finally grow a pair and privately tell Obama (or whoever is really running the show) that the USA had better cool it or we will throw your fucking military bases out of Germany?
Who died?????? I am confused.....
Thanks to the internet the world has been able to see this bullshit for what it is.
John McCain's (and other deuchbags) thought's on this: "Fuck, now we have to try something else."
It's getting better...from an L.A. Times article just out:
U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.
URL please?
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-intelligence-us-201407...
11 paragagraphs down.
This is what it's like when an 8-year old has total control of the western press to lamely concoct an on-going narrative in defense of his the dog ate my homework polemic...
Now it's a Ukrainian defector to account for the fact that the system functionalities of the SAMS were proprietary and not point and click.
Apparently the Easter Bunny had a prior engagement and was not available to provide a credible narrative trope...
Can't wait for the next logical hole and the Mockingbird's quick fixtional response.
Here's my favorite part of the latimes article:
But U.S. intelligence agencies have independently verified photos posted to social media last week that show an SA-11 launcher driving toward the Russian border missing at least one missile, the officials said.
Social media?!! That's their evidence?!!!
I guess their multi-billion dollar real-time spy satellites and global radar network must have been down for service that day...maybe that's why the Easter Bunny was unavailable...he was in orbit with Santa conducting repairs.
uber vandal beat me to it.
Shocked I tells ya.
/ lol
Still confident there's WMDs? Or just confident the jews are pulling a fast one?
Did you know there are more than one kind of Jew, and that not all Jews think or act in concert?
Just donate to ADL, they'll keep this genocide bitchism humming along.
/ Sarc
Did you know there are no Jews, just eastern europeans and turks using magical thinking to push their agenda on their less intelligent relatives (who they periodically use as firewood) & the rest of us?
No, you are wrong, they are God's Chosen People, and they have a Promised Land, didn't you hear?
Did these 'unnamed' officials listen to their 'named' leaders who were calling for a full and open investigation a few days ago? Russia knows we have satellites and AWACS so what's the 'secret'? If we want to hide our technology then just save the images of the incriminating evidence in a lower resolution. The only reason to hide it is that it shows something that you do not want shown - sort of like IRS e-mails.
Isn't the biggest piece on the board now the South Stream pipeline?
L.A. Times article
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-intelligence-us-201407...
what appears to be a mistake is supporting and
arming neo-nazis and psychopaths with technology
with which they have no business, that includes
the banksters and the printing press.
Another fail. After spending trillions on NSA, CIA and DoD, the best they come up with is a Russian "Facebook" post. That account doesn't even belong to Strelkov aka Girkin. The account is more of a collection of updates from multiple blogs (unconfirmed rumours half the time), just a part of information war.
I've been following Strelkov's posts on a different forum (the only one he actually posts himself), and didn't see any messages about the plane. And it's not like he updates his status hourly, he has an actual war on his hands.
"It's hard to think clearly about the wickedness of what has happened. There were 38 Australians on the plane. Xxxxx and I flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on 17 May on MH17 - so it could have been us. Our government moved the Resolution in the United Nations seeking a full and open investigation but no one here expects the Russians to do anything more than hinder that process because their clients in Eastern Ukraine will be exposed for what they have done. God help those poor souls dying suddenly and unprepared. "
Peoples stupid... thats all.. they don't ever know what their government do...
It's how they feel. Respect it even if you don't agree with it.
i can't respect blind people
"God help those poor souls" indeed but it was neither the East Ukrainians, nor the Russians that was responsible. From all legitimate indications, it was the West Ukrainians with covert American support who downed the Malaysian jet either by surface to air missiles or, I believe more likely, the Malaysian plane was shot down by one of two Ukrainian fighter planes that had been detected following the airliner.
your friend is an idiot - tell him to try and think for a change - motive?
or go get a Fosters and forget about it if thinking is too hard
Ausfailians don't drink Fosters. To be honest, the only time I have seen Fosters being drunk is on British and American television programs. I have it on good authority that it tastes like rancid cat piss though. Personally, I drink the swill put out by Carlton breweries, when I can't be arsed making my own beer, that is.
The media in this country is pathetic. Murdoch owned for the most part, so we get the same tabloid nonsense you may be seeing in Britain. Even the local rag was calling for Putin's blood the day after the tragedy. To date, the only deviation from the 'official narrative' here has been a couple of awkward questions asked by a couple of journalists on the government owned broadcaster, on the late-night new round up. No follow-up on these questions of course. After all, why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
The attitude here is largely one of waiting for the investigators to hurry up and confirm what everyone already 'knows.' Even the Palestinian protesters are being drowned out by the pro-Israel rallies here in Melbourne. I'm seriously considering moving to Iceland and shacking up with some toothless sea hag. The only trouble is that I would probably have to fly there using an asian carrier...Fuck that.
Australians only care about cheap flights and are wondering where MH370 went if it did not make it to Ukraine. The US seems to have blind satellites wherever Malaysian Airlines flies
Man, what a way to weasel out.
Like high school kids.
power is control of an abstraction that
engenders value and meaning. the aim is
to evolve such an abstraction and then be
termed the master of it, the controller
of the abstraction, they call this genius
and power.
.
with a smile, my older brother used to tell me it was
talent and a cheap trick. unforgettable he is.
anyway, that is what we are confronted with....
that is money
I guess it's time the world sanctions the US ( and throw their $ out of usage for a start)
Reversal action
Game is up
Did they down it down with a fart?
Maybe an inside job! A cockpit raspberry.
Just reminded myself of a great sketch from the Two Ronnies ; RIP Ronnie Barker.
The Phantom Raspberry Blower of Olde London Town.
The land that stretches from Poland to the Volga is a land of death: Wars, famines, atrocities, tens of millions of dead.
My part of the family emigrated from there to the States over a hundred years ago. My great grandfther was a fur trapper, and my grandmother started field work when she was six years old. I am closer to 80 now than I am to 70.
My great grandfather carried an Imperial Russian passport when he entered the States. It described him as "analphabet" - illiterate.
I remember my grandmother looking at photographs of the dead with silent tears rolling down her face.
Ukraine has been torn limb from limb more than once.
I was on Soviet territory the day Chernobyl exploded, and I can still see people's solemn expressions in the light of the TV screen as they watched. They knew, I think, that this was a signal for the end of the Soviet Union.
Poor country, poor people.
Well folks if you had to make a guess why the State Department and IC backed away from this...
Look no further than to what took place last year around this time when the war drums started beating for Syria!
I wouldn't be at all surprised if General Dempsey raised a "middle digit" to Kerry and Obama and said you "green light" this one and I'll have 3 and 4 star(s) holding up white signs with black letters this go around saying:
"I didn't join (branch of service) to fight for Al Qaeda in a Ukrainian civil war"...
Have to face the possibility that despite very poor previous form from the US as far as honesty for these sorts of incidents go that it could very well have gone down like this,
I would however need them to actually release the evidence rather than some spokesperson saying trust us. Previous form means that I would be a fool to trust their word, unfortunately it is not worth anything.
So, address the Russian accusations of what happened properly instead of just ignoring them. explain why the plane was 17km of course and 3000 feet lower than normal, why Ukrainian fighters were supposedly in range etc, in other words have a proper investigation instead of just ignoring anything that you are uncomfortable with and I will believe the outcome.
Anything less reeks of a cover up.
You forgot the U.S. satellite that just happened to be in the neighborhood that Russia has repeatedly asked the U.S. to corroborate with their satellite imagery...
Yeah that will happen when donkeys fly!
Putin: Let the World listen to the cockpit recorders that the Ukraine/CIA boys confiscated immediately after the crash or I'll show the World the satelite images we ALL have. Your move.
Obama: How about we just say it was a big mistake and we'll pay for your new French boat. Deal? Pretty please? Oh come on dude!? Oh... and don't tell Angie, she's really pissed right now.
Obama: How about we just say it was a big mistake and we'll pay for your new French boat. Deal? Pretty please? Oh come on dude!? Oh... and don't tell Angie, she's really pissed right now.
"."
I am "confident" US intelligence agencies are full of shit
In other news QUEEN ELIZABETH is proven to be doping her racehorses
John Kerry says thats ok because some of his best friends are horses arses.
How many times have i pleaded on here not to use the oxymoron US INTELLIGENCE AGENCY?
As I analyzed in a comment below the last MH17 article about the black boxes being handed over to UK, the only logical conclusion was, that there must have been a deal between Russia and the West.
The thesis in short:
Putin doesn't want to annex E.Ukraine (contrary to Crimea, which is essentially for Russia) but can't get easily away not supporting separatists. With the black boxes in the hand of UK, Russia could expect the separatists would be blamed, but no longer accusatins against Russia.
Putin maybe even can deny any support for the separatists, can keep his face torwards the Russians for not supporting them, the Western plutocrats get whole Ukraine und continue with Russia's encirclement.
The French today already declared they will deliver the next Mistral ship, too.
Catch up with the facts, not MSM dribble.
It's not about facts, it's about national interests in the current situation.
Learn to put yourself into someone else's position.
That's exactly why we think independently, our rogue US government wants us to think like you. Breaking news, it's not going to happen.
The ziomedia is portraying Putin's Russia NOT as aggressive?
They do NOT portray Putin, as if he wants to annex Ukraine?
The upvoting of your BS-comments is frightening.
What happened between The White House and Putin (and perhaps Merkel) that ended with this lowering the tone of the debate?
Conversation perhaps went something like this...
Go ahead and surround me while I take all your business partners and build my own surveillance bases in Central and South American and the caribbean... After all Barry you'll have to keep borrowing from me to fund your B1 Stealth bomber upgrades if you want to make them a reality anytime soon and we both know that!
"Barry" you look really tired! You need another vacation "sport"! Get out there and "hit some balls"!
Studying the details of this tragedy are pointless. All Putin ever has to say to the UN -Would this really have happened if Viktor were still in Kiev?!!!
IMO there is a greater possibility of NATO's disbandment than Ukraine joining NATO.
A true believer of the zionist's propaganda of the dangerous Russia and the weak NATO.
BS!
Russia would need to become aggressive to be able to stop the world terrorists.
if you want the subject off the desk for a few days - sure - but any thinking man would know one false flag breeds the next - once the US has control of the border it will be false flags fo ten years until something goes wrong and it will be Europe that loses not just gas delivery - I would never take that solution if I was Putin The USA wants seven time zones - owned -nothing less
Obama is on the ropes and Putin is playing rope a dope
Which country is being encricled? USrael or Russia?
You are falling victim to the propaganda, that Russia was so dangerous and aggressive, while USrael was only defending itself.
Putin acts very good, but he is NOT aggressive and so far he has not been able to stop the encirclement of Russia.
Wake up, the evil is in YOUR house.
It's too early to make conclusion from one single article, but it seems that Russia is not willing to accept lies from the Ukrainian government, be they aimed against Russia or the separatists:
http://rt.com/news/174868-ukraine-buk-falsification-continues/
So one other explanation, why they handed over both black boxes comes to mind:
They are confident to have enough evidence, that they do not even need the flight recorders anymore. But by giving them away, they could make some quid pro quo, but still can continue to debunk lies.
obama is so dumb he can't even pull off a false flag
Tyler what part of confident and confirmed do you not understand?
This seems like one of those things that will never produce an answer. My opinions of the U.S. and Russia haven't changed, it's just sad the victims families will never get an answer.
Well let's face it, you'd have to be really dumb to believe anything these intelligence geniuses say after the whole sorry Saddam/WMD episode. They couldn't be that stupid ........
Can't knock 'dumb' they named a bullet twice after it.
The only thing plausible in this new fable is plausible deniability.
Plausible deniability is a term coined by the CIA in the early 1960s to describe the withholding of information from senior officials in order to protect them from repercussions in the event that illegal or unpopular activities by the CIA became public knowledge.
Iran Air Flight 655, an Iran Air civilian passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai, was shot down by the United States Navy guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes on 3 July 1988. All 290 on board, including 66 children and 16 crew, died...
People who live in glass houses...
Just a thought...
Admitting it's a mistake is an admission that the fighter jets were present and lured the seperatists to shoot. Just about nails the blame on Kiev. No chance the US backs down so quickly if that wasn't the case. Possibility still exists that Kiev shot it down instead.
Either way it is a victory for the seperatists. They pretty much get absolved for ther actions and send a message that their capabilities are for real. Could be the story Putin is willing to live with, even if there is proof Kiev did the shooting.
If fighter jets were present, they shot MH17 down. Trying to use them to lure the separatists into firing and then hitting the target is too much of a long shot.
The meme out of Washington DC is very bad these days, I tend-to-try-not to hear it but it does flow fast & furious without regard to what it sounds like.
~ it's called being clueless ~
That's because according to the following,
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-u...
"What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.
The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said."
Meaning the US knows that Ukraine (i.e. Kiev forces) most likely shot down the airline and is hiding the proof because Russia has called them on it!
Plausible , think of the US forces stack of ' friendly fire ' incidents.
Obama/Kerry (Dumb Asses) are toning down the rhetoric now. Words like; “Confident” “Mistakenly.” Yet again no hard proof. Just an outdated satellite photo with a couple of colorful line vectors. Obama (the Gay Prince) is the Poster Child for Common Core. Just hearing their Voices makes me vomit.
What did "Curveball" say ? Anything about the Renault trucks carrying Russian ICBMs across Ukraine ?
US "intelligence" seems restricted to collecting dirty pictures and handing them around NSA....just what does Obam do on Skype ?
Clearly the US lacks technical capability to tell the truth
Of course. Putin is a faggot.
Stalin was a FAGGOT.
Why don't you come to my house and I'll host?
Hey, FUCK YOU RUSSIA! FUCK YOU DC! Freedom of speech!
Get a job you FAGS! You're all an insult to homosexuals.
An Insult to human beings.
Fuck you! Hahahaha!
My opinion.
Eat me.
Why don't you just eat yourself?
Can't find a homosexual cannibal when you need one?
wat r u fkn stupid?@whitehouse(notthepornsite).com
So when is Feinstein/Frankenstein going to "man up" and apologize to Putin for opening her yid yap?
daughter of frankeinstein!..nutland is his granddaughter! Pesaki is his great grand daughter.
Not to dwell on the macabre, but can you imagine sorting through that week old traincar load of body bags and mangled human remains? Don't have to worry about identifying any bodies from jewelry, cause I"m sure that has all been melted down or listed on e-bay. Everytime I watch news footage out of Mexico or Middle East, there are a shitload of douchbags running around with shoulder fired missle launchers. Where the fuck do they get those things? It is absolutely baffling to me that some of those things haven't found their way to the end of a US Airport runway.....that would be easier than a day of dove hunting. Never understood all of those get on a plane shoe bomb tricks those idiots screw around with.
Oh, uh, Why don't the USA just admit they downed this fukin' dart? Then we can all capitulate and eat hot dogs.
Fuck this. The perfect cover for malaysia is a loss of malaysia.
Do you think any one is that stupid? Fuck you!
How about raising awareness of our cultural heritage and respectin the same of others?
Eh, Fuck this.
Well, I see there are some faggots who are militant. It's okay. Come ane peck out my liver.
Oh, those that down me up me.
They are princesses behind curtains. I'll bet they're fuking zionist Kennedy assassins.
Go storm the west bank, you coward fucks. Eat your Talmud and Die.
xenophobic zionist hater. to upvote or downvote...?
This is huge. They know it was Ukrainians and they are negotiating for a coverup.
Remember when the Evil Empire was the USSR? How things change.
Death to America, bitchez.
if they want putin's silence, then give him novorussia! they have sufficiently maligned him, the south-eastern provinces want to go back to Russis, and the Russians want back their own.
split it at the dniepr, kiev over to russia.... give the west of the dniepr to poland to sort out...
disclaimer-
the following is largely is wildly speculative conspiracy theory stuff of the highest order and should therefor be considered not as a serious discourse on what may or may not have happened to the ill fated 777 but instead an alternative point of view. i write this simply because at this rate, much like so many other incidents, none of us here today will ever likely learn the truth.
in short "for entertainment purposes only".
so with my tin foil hat firmly in place here are some thoughts that have been bumping around in my head.
it seems odd to me that in that particular area of the world, not just a war zone, but what has got to be currently the most closely monitored spit of land and airspace in human history given the powers involved and their collective technological capabilities that nobody seems willing to share the apparent abundance of evidence and proof that has been gathered over the past few days. think about it, the Russians have the area under constant air, radar, satellite and drone surveillance. the Ukrainian military has the place locked down with everything from tanks and artillery to anti air missile batteries and constant combat air patrols. NATO has nine ships in the black see, AWACS all over eastern Europe, satellite coverage, land based radar tracking stations drone flights and the CIA right in Kiev. and that's just what we know about, who knows how many nuclear subs are bouncing around the area, or how many spies both sides have inserted into the region.
now one would think with all this attention focused on such a small space that a firecracker wouldn't be able to pop off without about a million sat photos, infrared tracking pictures, radar plot screenshots, drone cam videos and lapel mini spy cam footage being readily available for public consumption. because if nothing else what good is halving all the cool toys if you don't have an audience to show then off to?
shock and awe anybody?
yet here we are left with nothing more than a few pictures and brief videos over something on a truck with a tarp thrown over it with no way to verify when or where the video or the pictures were taken, a couple of recorded phone conversations with once again, no way to verify their authenticity. oh yeah and some nifty power point presentations complete with maps and arrows that seem to increasingly contradict the allies in Kiev and Washington's versions of what they assure us really happened.
so here is my obvious question, if they have irrefutable, beyond a reasonable doubt proof why not go public with it and remove all doubt, lay all speculation to rest and score a massive public relations victory? thus proving that they other guy is the villain of the story and destroying any and all credibility the other guy has and in the process also destroying any hope they have of achieving their goals in this conflict.
it would make sense right?
so here is my speculation, what if neither side shot down the plane? what if something else happened to bring that airliner down?
and what if that something else was of a nature that all sides agreed that putting on this little drama was necessary in order to cover it up?
or what if the whole thing was a deliberate set up, flying the plane over a war zone, that particular war zone, so it could be shot down, not to incriminate Russia or the eastern Ukraine separatists but to kill someone on the plane or to destroy or retrieve some cargo held therein? once again that someone or something would have to be of such a nature and disposition that the power players involved agreed that the this deception was necessary and were willing to work, at least in part, together to make it happen. not all the parties involved would have to know exactly what was going on, just enough to be able to play there parts. deceptions within deceptions, plans within plans within plans as the great Frank Herbert once wrote.
it would be the perfect cover, as everybody debates the who done it and the propaganda machine swings into action making absolutely certain that the focus never strays from the obvious conflict, nobody ever even thinks to question it and why would we? we are all to distracted by the tantalizing little bits and pieces of non proof , by the obvious propaganda itself to entertain any alternative possibilities.
evil genius really.
I keep thinking back to the disappearance of the other Malaysian 777, no trace was ever found, no clues as to the fate of the plane or its passengers has been offered to the world. it just pulled a Houdini and vanished Bermuda triangle style like something from the x files.
coincidence? most likely, but then again you never really know for sure in situations like this where facts are in short supply and propaganda is everywhere.
the truth is out there...
no disclaimer needed for thinking for yourself.
Yes.
Me neither can stop thinking about the other flight.
I keep thinking about that stories of bloodless bodies. The pristine passports.
Images like this one:
IMAGE: Faked? ‘A staged production’ – luggage and belongings seemingly untouched after the allegedly downed airliner, complete with an ‘I Love Amsterdam’ T-shirt splayed out for maximum effect. (Photothepositivevibe.com)
Or this...
IMAGE: ‘Shedding light on the mystery of MH17? – Here is an apparent screen shot from Flightradar24 that shockingly shows that the doomed Malaysian flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, MH17 was canceled. Here is a direct link to Flightradar24 for those who doubt the authenticity of the photo. Was this a glitch, or is the information on the site accurate? If nothing else, this is another bizarre finding in the case of MH17. (Photo flightradar24.com)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/flight-mh17-conjures-mh370-exposing-western-deception-was-it-a-staged-event/5392222
I was educated to Cartesian methodic doubt but after 9/11, I don't believe one single word they say, I never believe the MSM and I know they can set up almost anything. I've been revising "historical facts" for years.
It's been 1984 since long. Who knows since when.
On the other hand, I believe they're kind of defeated. Their game gets harder and harder.
The Su 25 highest operating altitude is 23,000', its a ground support aircraft.
For what its worth, according ot Shittypedia, the Ukraine air force also has 9 "operational" SU-27's. Although I don't how many of these may have been handed over to the Russkies in Crimea and/ or shot down:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Air_Force
SU-27's are fighters with a service ceiling of 62000 feet (19 km) and a maximum speed of Mach 2.5 at altitude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-27
"Shittypedia", I loved it!
I will hand the neologism to my students. Pretty accurate.