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Russia Accuses US Of Fabricating MH17 Evidence As US Reveals More "Evidence" Of Russian Military Involvement
The farce of facts continues to grow as Ukraine's national security council head says US is wrong (in finding no link to Russia) and claims to have proof MH17 was shot down by Russians (from BBG)
- EXPERT PRELIM CONCLUSION IS MH17 SHOT BY RUSSIANS: PARUBIY
- EXPERT PRELIM VIEW IS RUSSIAN MILITARY, WEAPON DOWNED MH17
- UKRAINIAN NATL SECURITY COUNCIL HEAD PARUBIY POSTS ON TWITTER
- PARUBIY COMMENTS ON PRELIM CONCLUSIONS FROM `INTL EXPERTS'
and then the US State Department unleashes another statement of alleged 'proof' that Russia is sending rockets to separatists and firing on Ukraine's military from within Russia. Of course, while no 'evidence' has been offered, we are sure this is all backed by YouTube clips and Tweets that 'prove' it is fact.
- RUSSIA SENDING MULTIPLE ROCKET LAUNCHERS TO SEPARATISTS: HARF
- ARTILLERY FIRING FROM RUSSIA AT UKRAINE MILITARY FORCES: HARF
Here's the video proof that Russia is firing into Ukraine (allegedly) - click image for link
And then Russia hit back, blasting Washington's claims that pro-Russian rebels fired a missile that hit the plane on July 17 "mostly cited social networks" and did not correspond to reality.
Russia suggested on Thursday that the United States was trying to fabricate evidence that separatists in eastern Ukraine shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.
Anatoly Antonov, deputy defence minister, said Washington's claims that pro-Russian rebels fired a missile that hit the plane on July 17 "mostly cited social networks" and did not correspond to reality.
Alexander Yakovenko, Russia's ambassador to Britain, also poured scorn on the widespread belief that Moscow is supplying the rebels, saying: "Russia doesn't supply weapons to local de facto (separatist) authorities in eastern Ukraine" and that "no evidence whatsoever has been presented that the Russian government has been doing this".
"So where is this evidence?" he asked on the Rossiya-24 channel. "Why is it not presented to the public? Is it, if I may say so, still being finished off?"
* * *
The US using fabricated social media as a pretext to start a war? Where have we seen this before? Oh yes, last summer, when the Obama administration brought the world to the edge of all out war over the Syrian "chemical attack", an attack which Seymor Hersh subsequently showed was nothing but a false flag provocation.
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I've only watched other people compare imagery, and that was a lifetime ago, but for the life of me I can't align the roads in the Daily Mail article with the YouTube video. What are the key features present in both?
(BTW: Linus Torvalds: You're wrong! There is a very practical use for that odd KDE feature)
I liked the end results for that other Malaisian Jet better.
Forget about it and move on. There are bigger fish to fry now that almost any garage lab can create bioweapons.
that video doesn't show russians firing at ukes.
that video is from my neighor down the way getting rid of prairie dogs
ZioNazis of Hollywood seem to be Youtubing nonstop nowadays. They have a department of "evidence makers" but without Stanley Kubrick it all looks too obvious and under produced.
Vast majority of Americans and people in the world believe the moon landings. Propaganda is a very powerful tool and the fact that people are stupid as shit doesn't help.
apparently you never watched the debunkings, there did not exist long enough reels of film - by a VERY wide margin - to have faked what millions saw on tv.
sure you can say they sped up the film 6x and it sorta looks like they are running on earth, but
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_loUDS4c3Cs
and this guy calculates only a doubling of the film speed and already the lengths of film were impossibly long, multiples of what existed at the time.
had the tech to go there, but not the tech to realistically fake it at all.
conspiracy theories only have the chance to become conspiracy fact when they tell a truthful tale that cant be explained within the generally accepted theory....but when the conspiracy theory contains elements that are clearly contradicted by established facts...it will forever remain a conspiracy, accepted only by those who value the theory more than the truth.
nice link...ta...tidy film by a sharp film-maker...
Nowadays?
Hitchcock and Wilder were fabricating the German concentration camp movies, where they i.e. presented Typhus corpses as starved to death people.
And hasn't this method been working fantastic? So why should they stop using it nowadays?
Didn't you see "Wag the Dog"?
Just like that.
I'm sure the Russians aren't supplying arms, cash, and military advisors to the 'rebels' in the East just as I'm sure the US/NATO isn't actively involved. This website has just seemingly gone full-on retard lately regarding pro-Russian position in the comments section.
does full retard mean we promote the kenyan...I think not
8 million ethnic Russians have a legitimate claim to get Russian support. US/Nato started with the bullshit. Russia has a legitimate dog in this fight. What is our reason?
"We're #1!" ?
Hubris, arrogance, pride? Lack of serious opposition? Nuttynyahoo's oligarch friends said so?
Am I close? What do I win?
A free flight with Malaysian Airlines
What you are watching is typical of a wild dog circling and smelling his prey before deciding to strike.
The Russians are in big trouble and their leadership know it. The rest of the world has been involved in the Ukrainian crisis, but the Russians are committed to the Ukrainian crisis. The circling here is to keep the Russian supporters on side. If they did not come out with a full court offense, they will lose support at home. They understand this. They need to show leadership using the only force they understand... fear.
The leadership of the Western World is dabbling with the Ukrainian crisis in the hopes that both sides clean up their act and behave as First Worlders. No one wants to support the mafia tactics that are displayed by both sides. The Ukrainians are clearly moving towards acceptance/inclusion by the Western World and this will leave Russia with little influence.
This is a typcial push-pull strategy. The West keeps asking Ukraine... what have you done for us lately, while Russia puffs itself up to look menacing. Ambivalence with the Ukraine is intended to force the Ukrainians into committing to democratic steps that will clean up their country and bolster their economy.
When the time is right, that ambivilence should convert to commitment. Now is not the time.
These ZH Pro-Russian comments follow a standard line... the Western World should be more like Russia. Playing that card too many times forces ambivilent readers to step away from Russia. People do not like to be told how to think. The harder the Russians try to force the issue, the more people disagree with their point of view.
"People do not like to be told how to think."
Mmm...........unless of course, it is to think the way you have been trained to think.
Yeah, and here is 'Yat's da Man' waving at you for your flattery:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LNQpnIL1aQw/UxS5bj68BwI/AAAAAAAAAzA/TvdJneILep...
As far as I can see no one here is suppoting Pitin. They simply want the truth....something that ain't come out of a western leader's mouth for many, many years.
Back in the war short range A2A missiles seem to be doing well.
Apparently 2 SU25 were shot down on Monday, and two more on Tuesday plus a pair of SU24 on Wednesday.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140723/191173928/Militia-Says-Downed-4-Ukraine-...
when you are desperate and you run a criminal gang, you will resort to anything, to try and get your own way. CHECKMATE DC!
Just to stir things up, some polititions there have registered a new law that seems to say they want nuclear weapons again, having given them up in 1996 against security guarantees from US/R/GB.
The EU/US have really stirred the pot!
Wow I never thought America would resort to these kinda tactics just to start a war. i am so ashamed of my country at this moment. I hope this is not true!
Plus I watched that video where is there any proof of anything other that somebody fired a lot of missile into the air a hit nothing the one I saw the day the plain was hit was 1missisle that hit the plane woe
Ah, you don't remember Aluminium Tubes, Mobile Bio units, WMDs, Yellow Cake?
Do you remember 911?
yup then too sad days cause I love my country we have lost our way maybe we will find what had made us great again
I would not wager on that. We are too far gone. The disease is terminal. The Republic is a shell of its former greatness. The cancer has eaten our insides.
You can deny it.
You can get angry about it.
You can bargain...
You can even get depressed about it.
But you will have to come to terms with it and accept the fact that the Republic is dying.
It is sad. It is tragic. But everything, every organism, has a life span.
They are born, they grow, they thrive, they wane, and then they perish.
Governments are no different.
yeah I never thought a clip from some war games tests would be construed as evidence of an attack.
that'd be like if russia captured some footage of US BREEZE or Rapid Trident and said "see, this is proof that the americans were behind shooting that plane down"
Ron Paul shot it down
http://i.imgur.com/B0Wkhwi.jpg
If it wasn't Ron Paul then it was my neighbours cat.
I know that for a fact(!)
Exactly as I predicted.
Each side will show maps and videos and each side will call propaganda on the other side
Been there, there done that.
I grew up in communism.
Rule of thumb:
There is no such thing as EVIDENCE.
It's all about INTERPRETATION.
Nope. There's usually a lot of both. The former gets buried so the latter can be applied.
I grew up in "capitalism" but didn't know until recently how blatantly obvious "our side" has been producing propaganda for years as well.
Eastern Ukraine is made up of 8 million ethnic Russians. That's a very valid argument to end any debate about right or wrong in this war
There are 8 million ethnic french speaking people in Canada also.
France has not threatened Canada with Buk missiles yet
Does France have any operational BUK missiles?
ummm...its France.
Was there a point you were getting at?
Here is an appropriate song for your comment.
Listen to his comment why the musicians at Bathe, France refused to play it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmORNIEDRHw
Agreed, France lost in the Mexian War. Need not say more.
Pssst!
Englnd's Gen. Gracey took the Japn surrender southern Cochin China aka s.vnam. England arranged this out of the colonial goodness of their royal hearts, so that Frnce could reinstate their gov there.
There was no quid-pro-quo. Frnce just coincidently offerred to suppress any future Quebecois independence movement in unselfish gratitude for regaining colonial control and riches in vn. Was supposed to have been a sweet deal. It was.
Usg [see Truman at Potsdam 1945 where vn was "temporarily" divided long before Geneva 1954] was complicit in providing the Victory ships, etc [a lot of etc.] for the returning frnch and undercutting the nascent vn constitutiion Ho copied from the amer doc and translated with help from amer's highest OSS officer on the scene, Archimedes Patti [who was not told that Truman/Churchill at Potsdam already arranged frnce's return].
Understand why easternCanada separation noise went so quiet? Muffled. Effectively.
French speaking people also have autonomy over much of Canada don't they? Their own province and parliament?? They don't get bombed, disembowelled, systematic artillery fired upon their homes and are allowed to speak their own language and have signs displayed in french as well.
I think your argument sux!
"have signs displayed in french as well."
You can display signs in any language you want in Quebec, so long as they're also in French, and the French letters are bigger...heh.
(it's a can of worms, man. don't open it)
Please name the last time France was relevant to any discussion
1066
That number sounds a bit high.
The number of people who claim French ancestry is closer to 5M.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_origins_of_people_in_Canada
The number of people who speak French, well... in my family there are three, but only one has actual ancestry. If you count us, then throw in the Haitians and various African immigrants, then yeah... you're up around 8M, give or take;)
On the missile thing... I'd guess France wants Quebec about as much as Russia wants Ukraine. Go there and see for yourself. The place is a shambles.
Been there, there done that.
I grew up in communism.
Now you live under Facism.
The grass is yellow on this video, there is no way it's up-to-date.
Within hours Kiev was accusing the rebels of shooting down the Boeing with a BUK system. And Kiev moved their BUK systems near the future crash site and near rebel-held territory in the days leading up to the crash. And Russia has shown radar images of one or two presumably MIG-25 fighter(s) within firing range of the Boeing. But nobody saw the BUK contrail, and from the sattelite imagery it was mostly clear (not cloudy) on the day of the crash. So most likely Kiev shot down the Boeing with an air-to-air missile, and the BUK claim and bogus YouTube video purporting to show a BUK leaving Ukraine to Russia are all part of the false-flag (Kiev/"West" carrying out the takedown and then blaming someone else) attack deception.
As far as Russia not supplying the separatists, that may be literally true since they may not be supplying them directly. For example, Russia recently announced they would be giving South Ossetia free military hardware. Then SO could turn around and give it to the militias. Since the US and (Eastern) Europeans are providing advisors, arms, mercenaries, and volunteers to Kiev, Russia would be crazy to not be helping the militias. Kiev has made clear they want to try and take back Crimea, and they are asking for non NATO ally status.
And what about the body count mismatch? 80-100 names on the passenger manifest for which no bodies have been discovered yet. I mean, those Sh*th*le Schiphol manifests have to totally accurate, just like the 9/11 manifests were... oops, I forgot those pesky Arabs 'hijackers' weren't actually on any of the 9/11 flight manifests. Hmm, and neither was the underpants bomber, who was walked past security also at Sh*th*le Schiphol, in fact he didn't even have a passport on him at the time he was arrested on the plane. But apart from that we can totally rely on the Israeli security controlled manifests to determine who was really on the plane and blame Putin for any bodies that he is unable to produce to match the pristine unassailable lists.
Fortunately for the Zoharites the general public don't like "worrying their pretty little heads" about these sorts of inconsistencies. Unfortunately for the Zoharites the Russian, Chinese and rest of the world's intelligence services are extremely interested in these sorts of inconsistencies. Especially the Chinese who would like to know what happened to their citizens kidnapped on MH370.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-bodies-missing-on-train-carrying-remain...
page removed, does not fit narrative
No, its still there: SMH fucks around with URL strings.
archive.org copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20140722221818/http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-bodies-missing-on-train-carrying-remains-of-victims-says-dutch-official-20140723-zvv7l.html
Try this changed(?) link:
MH17: Bodies missing on train carrying remains of victims, says Dutch official
http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-bodies-missing-on-train-carrying-remain..."We would never support local rebels who oppose a non-elected, coup-regime. We would not support them any more than the US would support a coup of the Ukrainian government.
History also shows that Russia does not boycott, attack, bomb or occupy foreign nations. We prefer to leave that to global specialists."
Russians the honest guys in this site? You have no experience with them , obviously.
At this point, what difference does it make? Some trigger happy missile operator fired and people are dead. That can't be changed.
Normal comments as usual.
Today the Shekelblogger brigade has not been activated for ZH yet.
I see the Nazi/Muslim/JewHater Brigade is up and active though.....
21 weeks, 6 days. hhmm
@ revRex
The last refuge of a scoundrel is the race card. FUCK YOU
Ooops, that changed quickly.
Within a few minutes the comment section has been flooded.
There are no leafs on the trees in the video, so i assume its not a summer time depicted there. This video is fake.
Everything put out by the US government is fake. Been that way for over a hundred years.
and nothing growing on fields.
At this point in time who believes what from your respective governments?
A plane has come down in Mali with 110 passengers, and 6 members of staff? Right after this shit show? After the Ukranian 3 month government has stood down? Why?
The people have woken. And MH17 went down fifteen minutes berfore Isreal started slaughtering the Gazans?
All thanks to this fucking thing we type on. We know.
Dont we?
;-)
How long was it after HAMAS started lobbing hundreds of missiles at IsrAel?
Fuck off cunt.
Talk sense cunt.
Stupid fucking cunt.
;-)
Come on then cunt.
Idiot fucking cunt.
Can you at least try to defend your stance instead resorting to fact less rebuttals? I forewarn you, it involves a little bit of critical thinking and using the word C*nt does not strengthen your argument.
First off RevRex does not debate.
He made the claim that there is a difference between the Republicans and Democrats.
I have asked him why the Republican Led Congress FUNDED ObamaCare last October if there is any difference whatsoever. In fact they say one thing and then Financially Support it with their actions.
Because they say something different does not mean that they are any different when they both support Big Government. Money talks louder than words.
Money screams loudly, actually.
But he has refused to answer that one question. I have repeatedly asked that question.
Others on this Comment Board have seen this continually from him.
And you want to protect him?
So here is my argument for you. Why shall we give any respect to a troll who refuses to debate?
He is not worthy of any respect.
ChargingHandle...I am still awaiting an answer.
Why shall we give any respect to a troll who refuses to debate?
Are you in that same catagory?
Either debate me on the two issues I brought forward or agree.
I am more than willing to debate the issues.
I am victim oh lawd I am a victim .... signed revrex, while preparing to his hasbara extra credit presentations after high school class in Haifa. Course is graded on capabilty demonstrated to dazzle the shicksa with mind numbing redirection.
As someone noted earlier today (I forgot who), all this anti-Russian shit started over a year ago, after the US lost face over Syria.
The propaganda and MSM slander started well before the Sochi Games and did not let up since then. The US seems desperate for a new Bogeyman, given its humungous Debt and potential DOD "cuts".
The US regime and its puppy media are not interested in dialog or problem solving, but in static positions and finger pointing like an over-indulged, narcissistic teenager.
Actually, it was Edward Snowden what pushed the US over the edge
Actually, it was Edward Snowden what pushed the US over the edge
Actually, it was Edward Snowden what pushed the US over the edge
Hit that save button one more time and I'll push YOU over the edge!
Kerry has more proof of Russian involvement in shootdown.
http://www.robotroom.com/Launch-Controller/Launching-a-model-rocket.jpg
Yep! See that red shirt?
Headline: "Russia resorting to child armies to carry out attacks on Ukraine."
"did not correspond to reality."
Aparently he didn't get the memo stating that we here in the US are one huge "Reality-based community*!" We ONLY deal in [our] reality!
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community
Signed,
Mickey Mouse
Karl Rove
Oh, and to this remark:
"mostly cited social networks"
You're just jealous of the sucess of US social networks' success!
Facebook goes express to mega-cap status - now valued more than AT&T, Cokehttp://finance.yahoo.com/news/facebook-goes-express-mega-cap-192150405.h...
And keep in mind that while you can block out AT&T (even though they're trying to provide everyone with honest, secure communication channels) and Coke (who only wants us to all live happy lives), you most certainly won't be able to block out "social media" (the secret weapon is "Edward Bernays," perhaps you didn't know about him?).
</sarc>
WTF?
Putin is no better than stalin... He was and is KGB....
Do not believe a single word he says.....
The heads of the pro-russian separtists are all from russia nd are probably KGB. ...
Get real all you putin luvers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where do you get this "Putin luvers" from?
All I see is the usual anti-BS skepticism, that is typical of ZH and libertarians.
Probably from reading all of the posts here, you should try something to help with your piss poor reading comprehension......
Get the fuck out of here.
He just got this site assigned to him, He's excited Seer,
"The first 25 weeks are the hardest kid. "
TraderJoe and MillionDollarBonus are gone, We need some new fresh trolls.
Like a Child, Don't reply to this guy and start ignoring him. Soon, you won't see his posts at all...
He will just be one of those guys on the corner raving about something that you pass by and hardly even notice after a few weeks...
YOur getting the truth from Putin ???!!!!
Get real !!!!
We don't know. But we do know we aren't getting the truth from the Bullshitter In Chief, State Dept, everybody else inside the Beltway and the whole of MSM. There's a gigantic criminal conspiracy being covered up.
Only Nuttingyahoo can get you the truth, everybody knows that
We got a hundred tiems the volume and quality of data from the russians than we did from US-Ukr...
When one side lays a lot out on the table,
and the other side makes sure to confiscate recordings and immediately assign blame like they had video of every aspect of the incident...
who ya gonna side with?
We don't respond to the kind of hate-filled, childish, and emotional bullshit you shovel. We respond to facts, evidence and motive.
"Putin is no better than stalin..."
Closer to Krushchev, I'd say. Definitely a step up from Yeltsin.
"He was and is KGB...."
So was George H.W. Bush
Anyway, what's wrong with man-love? You gotta thing against gays?
You know what they say about that, don't you?
Are we there yet? At 5,000,000 posts.
Let me be the first to say “Happy 5,000,000 ZH!”
Bitchez.
I'll say it again: “Happy 5,000,000 ZH!”
Bitchez.
Funny - Russia picks a fight with the US and then whines like a bunch of school girls when then get slapped around in a propaganda fight.
Suck it up Russia - not one give a shit about your whining.
Never mind both Taliban and ISIS are going to humiliate the US
a dozen drones and some gamers hired by DOD will erase ISIS and Taoban in a few hours
Nuke. Israel. Now.
Problems. Solved.
So the Ukrainians knew immediately that Russian-speakers fired a BUK missile at MH317 - at least the Interior Ministry did. The Prosecutor-General states the Military told him the Confederacy ie Russian speakers had NO BUK missiles or launchers.
So why did Ukraine let a civilian airliner fly over a war zone knowing it was not safe when BUK missiles were in position ?
The Russians say Ukraine deployed 9 stations around these disputed towns - but Ukraine doesn't mention them or why they had them. Did they expect Russian aircraft ?
The presence of an SU-25 in the same corridor as MH317 suggests the ground-attack aircraft should have destroyed the BUK launcher but did not.
Here is an idea for the Ukranians who actually want to have their country back and exist in it to.
100% of your evils (minus Kolomoyski and a few other CIA reptiles) are concentrated in one building "Rada" . Lock them all up, cut off electricity and phone lines etc, etc and watch your country blossom as these serpents eat each other.
Part of this has already been on ZH but wait till you read the footnote! How is the US going to spin this?
A fuller version of what happened starts emerging piece by piece. First, as I pointed out earlier, in one his daily battle reports, Strelkov or his associates indicated as if in passing that the Malaysian airliner, Boeing 777, was shot down by Ukrainian jet fighters. Then came the briefing by the Russian Ministry of Defense, which showed a Ukrainian SU-25 within 3-5 km from the Boeing at the very moment when the Boeing was hit. In the next four minutes, the Ukrainian fighter remained in the area. At the moment, when the Boeing was hit, it was also within the range of several Ukrainian Buk batteries, which were deployed close to Donetsk and then, just for that very day, 8km south of Shakhterskoye, which is also only several miles from the crash site.
Today (July 23), Anna-News published an interview with a Russian Air Force retired colonel Aleksand Zhilin (????????? ?????) who is a frequent military commentator on the conflict in Ukraine. The most important information is stated at 2:00-5:00 in the interview.
According to the colonel, at 16:19:45, a Ukrainian jet fighter targeted the Boeing with an air-to-air missile R-60. The missile damaged the right engine of the Boeing. The Boeing was hit, but still managed to stay in the air. However, in doing so, the Boeing turned 180 degrees to the left. It was at this moment that the false flag attack started falling apart. According to Zhilin, part of the plan controlled by the US with Ukrainian hands executing it was to have the Boeing crash past the southern frontline by the Ukrainian-Russian border. Had the Boeing fallen there, securing the crash sites with the troops in response to international pressure was on top of all else effectively allow Kiev to lift the encirclement of its brigades in the southern pocket by the Russian border.
When, however, the Boeing started to turn in the opposite direction and was still apparently manageable, “the US-Ukrainian headquarters of the special operation panicked and order the Buk battery to destroy the plane in the air in order to pre-empt the possibility of the Boeing’s emergency landing.” A Buk missile was fired and the plane was then finally destroyed.
The disclosure of the Russian electronic intelligence (in fact, only one part of it) on July 21 put the US against the wall. The existence of this intelligence and other data also means that the US cannot show the real intelligence, which they also have, including the data from their electronic warfare exercise SEA BREEZE 2014 and the data from their spy satellite, which just happened to be over the area during the downing of the Malasysian Boeing.
The other relevant information, which the Russian colonel revealed, was that the Malaysian Boeing was insured for $97 million against damages or losses as a result of military actions.
~~~~~~~
Footnote (in comments)
Zhilin’s analysis is based in part on investigation of Nikolai Istomin (http://nikolay-istomin.livejournal.com/3057934.html) reveals one singularly shattering fact, which Kiev, the US, NATO, and corporate media kept under the wraps. A more detailed and careful analysis of the flight path of MH17 does, indeed, confirm that LH17 reached Snezhnoye at 16:19 local time still whole, complete, and in good health, so to speak. But the crash site is in Grabovo, which is almost 20 km (25km by road) NORTH of Snezhnoye. That, indeed, means that the plane 1) flew then backwards and that 2) its crash site ended up well behind the furthest southern point, which the plane reached.
This completely disapproves the US (US State Department) creative “drawing” of the supposed NAF BUK missile hitting the plane head on from Snezhnoye. This U-turn then also helps explain why Kiev’s first fake “leaked conversation of the rebels” tried to place the “rebels’s Buk battery” in Debaltzevo, which is just straight ahead from Grabovo–further north. However, that would not explain the U-turn, which they tried so much to conceal, for it points to the Ukrainian jet fighter.
The second “leaked” tape tried to place the “rebels’ Buk battery” to Donetsk, for the first attempt was too much at odds with the timing of the (first) impact. The missile would have to pass the plane, then turned around and hit it from behind … The quickly produced “Donetsk” fake tacit correction was supposed to address these inconsistencies, which were expected to arise. But the crash site in Grabovo, north of the acknowledged fight path and hence also further from the range of a battery put into Donetsk did not resolve well all the remaining discrepancies, not to mention the fact cunningly or just sloppily overlooked by the White House and the Western media, that already these two tapes were not only mutually exclusive, but also mutually refuting each other.
So, just several hours after the second tape, Kiev came up with a video, most likely showing the very Ukrainian Buk battery, which was actually shooting 8 km south of Shakhtyorsk against the Boeing. Kiev, however, claimed that it was the rebels’ Buk battery. Alas, the billboard on the left side of the short video shot from behind a bush, made it clear that the video was made in early morning hours on July 18 in Krasnoarmeysk controlled by the junta since May 11.
This video and further fake US “intelligence” thus started to assert that the rebels shot at the plane from Snezhnoye. This, however, required either to lie about the location of Grabovo, which, indeed, some Western media then put south of Snezhnoye, or to move the point when the (first) missile struck back northward. This still, however, could not explain why the crash site was east of the route, and it also presupposed that the plane would have been hit the Buk missile head-on.
To keep this story flying required revealing as little facts and topographic data (or a map of the crash site) as possible, which, for, the Western media, has never been a problem.
As a result, the one crucial fact revealed by Zhilin is the crucial fact that the rear of the plane and the main crash site is in Grabovo, some 20km east and north of Snezhnoye, which the plane actually passed, and, on top of it, that the pilots’ cabin is even more north (and more to the west) than the rest of the plane. The pilots’ cabin crashed in the village of Rozsypne/Rassypnoye, which is few kilometers north and west of the main crash site of the plane, as can be glanced from the maps of Zhilin and Istomin and this map of the area (the village of Rozsypne/Rassypnoye is well marked): https://www.google.com/maps/preview?ie=UTF-8&gl=us…
This location of the pilots’ cabin and the main body of the plane clearly shows in which direction and from which direction the plane was falling to the ground–the very opposite to what we were led to believe.
http://ai-zhilin.livejournal.com/1419422.html
Garbage, no distress beacon, plane was over Ukrainian airspace for an hour heading towards Russia, and no way would Ukraine try to shoot down Putins plane.
The truth is the Russian separitists did it, by accident, part of war, possibly baited by the Ukrainian fighter nearby. That plane had no business being there.
I think it possible that the aircraft was shot down by the separatists, but so far I have seen no evidence that is more than inferential.
Have you?
Yes, but if I just say it happened....it happened, cool?
I'm saying this aircraft was baited to turn for the fear of being targeted, the fighter jet was there for the insurance or the assuredness 777 turned. The BUK team,if they fired the fatal shot, had to know MH17 for sure and only Kiev control could do that.
"That plane had no business being there."
which begs the question: why was it?
If MH17 had been hit & continued turning, then why wasn't there distress calls, mayday's? MH17 otherwise had to have been destroyed instantaneously?
This whole false-flag is falling to pieces.
The U.S. knows Russia took a copy of the cockpit recorder data. If that recording has the MH-17 pilots reacting to an Air-to-Air missile strike and then a subsequent SAM strike ten or fifteen seconds later, then it will be absolute proof of a intentional and desparate Ukranian/U.S. effort to intentionally murder 290 people. An atrocity committed for no other reason besides some useless anti-Russian PR value. The entire world will hate the U.S. - even more than they do now.
The Dutch, Australians and Malaysians (at a minimum) will see this as an act of terrorism if not an act of war. The average Ukranian that just want's to be left the fuck alone will now face a planet that demands retribution for this crime.
In the mean time, DHS will have to put those hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo to use because the Hot Pockets crowd will demand the guillotine for the chickenhawks in D.C. and the oligarchs in Kiev.
Time to drain the bank accounts again before they hit the internet kill switch. All the MSM propaganda in the world won't fix this colossal fuck-up.
Just to emphasis that the link is to a map that may well show what he is saying. Perhaps someone who understands Russian can confirm it.
If so and if it is true it is amazing.
http://ai-zhilin.livejournal.com/1419422.html
We wonder how people back in 1914 felt when things were unfolding. The assassination of the Austrian duke in Sarajevo did not really cause a big stir among the Austrian population. Some months later WWI broke out. People did not think the war would be big or would last very long, let alone that millions would die. Fast forward to 2014. We have more access to more information sources than back in 1914 but while in 1914 people were sleepwaking into WWI it now seems that we are stampeding into a next big conflict. And there is nothing you can do about it.
You can go out and protest. Or make something else. You have to do something. It's not easy to make some impact, but it must come from us, fuck.
I really like what the Germans did in Berlin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDu-REENQRQ
END THE FED
It's not video from summer...its not ever from Ukraine or Ukraine border...
If this isn't proof that Russia is invading the U.S I don't know what is.
http://tinyurl.com/oe88anj
Who do you believe between two of the world's top bullshit artists? Tough call. The truth is out there but we'll never know it.
Two top bullshit artists? Are you referring to you and RevRex? If so you are very pompous in leaving out Movictim and orangegeek.
Barry's presidental library will be a GOLF course...
Time for a chocolate chip cookie...
Don't forget the kitchen clock. Great combination until you hear that special knock on the front door at 4am
"War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it."
George Orwell
"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac."
George Orwell
SICK OF THE WESTERN MEDIA CUNTS WHO PERPETUATE THE NWO AGENDA.
Like I've said before, and will say again, I no longer believe anything our government says. Not one word.
Reported on FOX, the Pentagon is claiming that Russian artillery is being fired at Ukrainian military positions from Russia...
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/24/obama-administration-russia-f...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzASjzhzmI
Reuters reporting also...
news.yahoo.com/u-says-russia-firing-artillery-across-border-ukrainian-181101805.html
Fucking US propaganda liars...
The US government is a joke and everyone knows it.
Let's stop pretending that what's-his-fuck is "president." Can we just have AIPAC do the press conferences directly?
This film
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIBra9FTNxIA3KT7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByZWc0dGJtBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMQ--?p=the+man+who+reclaimed+his+head&vid=c095b44d2d8e44ed33c763916f65c6d1&l=1%3A21%3A21&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.608001252893396351%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjTJrGxbmO3Y&tit=%3Cb%3EThe+Man+Who+Reclaimed+His+Head%3C%2Fb%3E&c=0&sigr=11aa4v937&sigt=1150gunj8&age=0&&tt=b
made in 1934, dares to show that it is bankers and the military industrial complex that encourage wars to profit from them. Even with the title, I am surprised it was made. Obviously the people going to that movie were not seeking political enlightenment.
Try this URL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jTJrGxbmO3Y
I was watching cnn just after I left a comment on here that the u.s. Needs a NOW bigger "flag" to distract the just recent one. My fear is major one in u.s. But Russia now firing from its border ! I am not one for writing well but am one to cut to the truth. I AM ASKING ALL ON HERE TO NOW START A CALL TO THE MILITARY to stop this insanity. OK so the dollar has lost. We will have 20% drop in GDP. And all horror with that fact. But it's not the end and we can reorganize and rebuild. Rebuild with town owned banks, local governments THAT DO NOT FORGET ABOUT THE EVIROMENT.
But right now we need the peoples military to step in NOW Just one brigade. Make a stand and then another.
I AM NOT JUST SAYING THIS. I WILL GIVE MY LIFE TO THE FIRST MOVE TO DO WHAT I AM SUPPOSSED TO DO. And that is OVERTHROW. tj.
Here is Gaidar's analysis of Russian economic strengths and weaknesses.
http://www.aei.org/files/2007/04/19/20070419_Gaidar.pdf
Fast forward today, and where does Russia find itself? What has changed in the last 8-10 years?
The big question is where will Russia be 10 years from now?
My sales employee is in Kyiv since monday. She is meeting with 2 ministries and a bank and a university there in need of what we sell. I speak with her daily and for safety she moved from a downtown hotel to a suburban place. There have been daily bomb threats in Kyiv toward buildings and shopping malls. She says that the average person is sad and not hopeful. The famous 'maiden' square is still a mess with tents and squatters that have been there so long some are a little in need of psyciatric therapy. Many east Ukranians have fled to Kyiv for safety and have their own varied and sad stories. Some of the poeple in Kyiv that she has met express a desperate view of thier future. A lot of peope are confused. Kyiv has a strange blend of patriotism, pesimism, and confusion. Without the usual Ukrainian mix of optimism at this time. Taxis are functiong well for her, but subways in Kyiv have reduced traffic from fear of bomb threats. I am not sure how the Prime minister resigning will affect her (my employee) ability to sell to the ministries. She is 8 hours off so I usually talk with her in her morning about 10 pm here. Maby if you in ZH are interested I will post more later.
Sorry not much sympathy here pal. At least your employee is not getting blown to bits by the Nazi bastards in Kiev like the ethnic Russians are in eastern Ukraine. Maybe your company should think twice about the ethics of doing business with the bastards in Keiv just to make a few extra shekels. Just my 2 cents.
BTW... I noticed that you are using the Ukrainian spelling for Kiev (Kyiv). Is that you Yats?
Boogity, We are selling anti-corruption equipment to help them fight bribery and misuse of gov office. I hope to one day make a profit but my practices are not predatory. I do not know of any person named Yats. I am not sure what a Nazi looks like but on my 5 trips to the Ukraine I have not seen swastikas, or other such things. Just ordinary people trying to get the basics of life. I have traveled, in the past across the Ukriane east and west. The East Ukrainians are not terrorists, and the west Ukrainians are not Nazis. Kyiv is now filled with ethnic russians escaping from the conflict. Some are also escaping into Russia. My previous visit to lecture in Donitesk left memories of a calm, kiind, hardworking people, with few frills in life. One memory of Donetesk in east Ukraine where the center of conflict is now, is that when men and women there get married at their city hall sort of building they go to a metal sculpture garden just outside of the city building while in their wedding clothes and bring a padlock to the metal sculpture garden and then they select a sculpture and place a padlock somewher on it and throw away the key to symbolize the 'locked' marriage. Rather cute, and funny in that some of the brides bring giant enormous padlocks for that symbolic purpose. It was explained to me that some brides fear their husbands may not be faithful in the future so they get giant locks to secure their dreams. This garden is near the center of Donitesk and may be damaged with the military conflict now, as perhaps some of the families that put locks there. Many people have died now in Donitesk. Both east and west Ukrainians are good people. They are neither Nazis, or terrorists. They are just stuck between Russia and a hard place. Advice: TV news is useful a little, but nearly all public news now is designed to tell you what to think and distort what you know. Thats my 2 cents. Thank you for your interst Boogity.
I would like to hear about other people's perceptions on the ground yes. If people are sad and not hopeful I think that is how they should feel given the circumstances, I'd be worried about their mental health if they were optimistic and happy. If there's no passion for this shit show or they aren't excited about it maybe the junta's support will fizzle out or they will rise up against them.
Thanks for the update. I'd certainly appreciate more updates on her experience/observations.
that video is from when russia was conducting live fire drills a couple months back.
Clearly the guy's car in the video needs a tuneup and has a transmission rattle going on that needs to be addressed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2703704/MH17-victims-wife-forced-cancel-credit-cards-theyre-USED-pro-Russian-rebels-accused-answering-mobile-phones-stealing-jewellery-crash-site.html
Yawn... It's small compensation for NATO's surrogates in Kiev blowing the sheeeit out of civilians in eastern Ukraine. Maybe the Dutch should re-think their membership of NATO, who is supporting ethnic clensing in eastern Ukraine as well as in Gaza. Karma can indeed be a bitch.
So when is Obama going to whip out the Race Card and send Eric and Al to Moscow, along with the entire American MSM, to stir some shit up ?
CIA Factbook indicates Netherlands are Russia's major export partner?.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/rs.html
Netherlands 14.6%, China 6.8%, Germany 6.8%, Italy 6.2%, Turkey 5.2%, Ukraine 5.2%, Belarus 4.7% (2012 est.)
Given that most of the Russia-Netherlands 2012 export estimate is likely to be oil and gas. The Dutch had be careful or it might be a cold winter in Cloggieland, unless all of those much ballyhooed LNG tankers from the USA start showing up in Roterdam pretty quick.
As a major Russian trading partner Amsterdam (defo not Germany) was the obvious starting point for a doomed aircraft.
It was maybe a another warning not to get to close to the Russians and a suggestion to support sanctions, or else..
George Orwell summed it up: “Political language… is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.”
Send in the Nuns.
We just witnessed the most outrageously obvious false flag operation ever perpetrated by the US government.
I'm sure, many high ranking officers in the US military know what is going on; will they continue to pretend that they believe in all this crap? Some of them must have children and people they love. Will they allow this insanity to start yet another bankster's war? How many more trillions do these reptiles need to feel happy and satiated?
I'm speechless! This whole shit is out of control. With the start of yet another war, websites such as this one will be shut down and declared as treacherous "voice of enemy". People will be rounded up and likely placed in some FEMA camps. Some are saying that they won't go down easily but look at what happened in Russia between 1917 and 1954, 30 to 50 million people were killed in labor camps by some jewish, german financed revolutionaries and nobody could do anything. I don't normally panic and have a reasonably high stress tolerance but these recent events are keeping me up at night. Lots of people here, whose opinion I respect, also expressing some very pessimistic views about the future. I watched many interviews with Putin and it appears that he is the only powerful politician out there who is opposing ZioNazi expansionism, but is it enough? Unfortunately, Russia seem to be always on the defensive, in fact, 98% of all Russian wars were defensive, not offensive. Do other Russian politicians understand what they're up against? How many of them been bought up by the CIA? How big is the Russian 5th column? Am I worried for nothing?
The Excited States of Amerika don't tell no lies!
Was that video actually presented as evidence?
Appears to be live fire drill excercise. Early months...no leaves on decidious trees...nothing growing in fields...
Back to Q...that was evidence of fire from Russian territory recently on Ukr's trapped next to border of Russia?
Serious?
No way to prove what country these are from.
Ukraine ATO (anti-terrorist operation) is self destructing.
(After a while it's easier to understand the machine translations)
Nalyvaychenko reported Poroshenko on mass desertion of the Ukrainian army (25.07.2014)
Public of Ukraine became the correspondence of the head of the SBU Valentin Nalyvaychenko and the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko.
In particular, Nalyvaychenko reported that "in the period from 14 to 19 July 2014 notes catastrophic growth (3473 man, 47%) of the number of deserters from the Armed Forces and the National guard of Ukraine in comparison with similar indicators for the previous week (1847 people, 25%).
In addition, for this period has increased the number of missing people (1344 people, 47%; last week - 344 people, 10%)".
These phenomena the head of the SBU explains "the increased activity of the enemy (army soldiers Novorossiya) in Donetsk and Lugansk regions and the increase in the number of us casualties units above the power structures".
The conclusions Nalyvaychenko, disappointing: "This fact affects the combat readiness of the personnel and makes the continuation of ATU impossible. If the negative dynamics will remain at the same level, through 4-5 days 2/3 combat-ready units involved in ATU, will cease to exist".
all USA evidence is fake. this is a complete false flag operation backed by the israelis and US jooooos with the help of the evil master mind dick cheney/ the Russians have NEVER EVER done anythng wrong except defend theselves against the warmongering USA. isn't that right, ron?
this comment has been hacked by the Free Syrian Army