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Pentagon Slams Israel's "Unacceptable" Shelling Of UN Shelters As "Totally Indefensible"
We already know that all is not well in US-Israeli relations (despite the ongoing funding) and John Kerry is not helping, but this morning's comments from the White House and Pentagon are concerning. As The BBC reports, the US Defense Dept says civilian casualties in Gaza are "too high" and Israel needs to do more to protect civilian life. Then White House spokesman John Earnest added, "the shelling of a UN facility that is housing innocent civilians who are fleeing violence is totally unacceptable and totally indefensible." Time to rethink the $576 mllion tripling of Israeli aid?
Since Israel began its offensive in Gaza on 8 July, 1,400 Palestinians have been killed, most of them civilians, according to the Gaza Health Ministry.
It said 173 people had been killed within the past 24 hours.
- *EARNEST REITERATES CALL FOR IMMEDIATE CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA
- *ISRAEL MUST DO MORE TO PREVENT CIVILIAN DEATHS, EARNEST SAYS
- *EARNEST SAYS UN FACILITY ATTACK `TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE'
- *EARNEST SAYS SHELLING OF UN SHELTERS `TOTALLY INDEFENSIBLE'
"The Israelis need to do more to live up to their very high standards... for protecting civilian life," a Pentagon spokesman said.
The UN has also criticised Israel over the worsening situation in Gaza, saying people there are "facing a precipice".
And Bloomberg adds,
“The shelling of a UN facility that is housing innocent civilians who are fleeing violence is totally unacceptable and totally indefensible,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest says at daily briefing.
...
Says there’s little doubt about whose artillery was involved, pointing to statements by UN, Israel, even though incident still requires full investigation
* * *
Israel says it will not stop its operation in Gaza until all the tunnels - which militants use to infiltrate Israeli territory - have been destroyed. Of course, as we noted previously, this is likely all theatrics as the money and arms are still flowing.
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Imagine China to decide that Mexico can have America and they all move in.
They can take any house and all the land they want.
As a gift, all the Americans have to live in the Nevada desert.
_____________________________________________
That would be terrifying.
But not as much terrifying that this one, that cant happen or people would die of fear.
Imagine 'americans' to decide that they can have the North American continent and they all move in.
They can take any house and all the land they want.
As a gift, all the Indians have to live in the Nevada desert.
Scary, isnt it?
Funny how 'americans' follow the blue prints of the 'american' role model, the US.
Ban Ki-moon should be tried as a War Criminal.
How about the tunnels Israel has built all the way to the USA, its congress and its Penagon?
VPNs. You're talking about VPNs.
That movie was comical, everyone got skewered for their foibles.
it was a wedding in a UN shelter...there feel better now Pentagon? Where "one" Hamas leader was in attendence
UN school had Hamas weapons. UN turned them over to Hamas after school hit with bomb. Ergo: UN is Hamas
some lies are so bad, that you shouldn't bother posting them even if you are getting paid for it.
ome lies are so bad, that you shouldn't bother posting them even if you are getting paid for it.
_____________
'Americans' work from bad lies. The worst, the better. It allows them to create a line of divide, with people supporting the lies and those who oppose.
With them or against them.
'Americanism' at work.
What an ASSHOLE!
He's the type of guy that would run into a physics lecture screaming "math is a lie!!!!!".
Isn't there a museum in KY celebrating a similar idea?
Hasbara bitch.
Wow! My highest score yet. It appears you will NEVER figure out how much Hamas is laughing at you morons who defend them. "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people." You will NEVER understand what dupes you are until it's too late. Thank you again for the votes. You've made my day.
How much damage is from the artillary and how much from the secondary explosions of the rockets stored in UN shelters?
And these graphic photos? US Congress? War Crimes?
What Israel regards as “unimaginable restraint” in Palestinefk....i could have gone my whole life and not seen such horrific images.
fk fk fk
Everybody needs to see them.
But some guy fired some fire works, so apparently those kids 'deserved' their fate.
alexcojones And these graphic photos? US Congress? War Crimes?
What Israel regards as “unimaginable restraint” in Palestine
-----
Yup, let Israel bomb all of Palestine until every Hamas is dead.
What you don't understand is history. History shows that these Islamic extremist will fight to the death to expand worldwide until they are stopped. I would rather Israel do that dirty work, then for the US to send soldiers over to die.
Enough logic and truth, this is ZH politics.
the final solution, 2.0? shameful.
lol, expand worldwide? They've been kicked off their land and pushed further and further into a smaller and smaller area as Israel land grabs and builds settlements well outside agreed upon borders. Great populations forced into smaller areas = fish in a barrel. It's genocide.
Enough logic and truth, this is ZH politics.
."I would rather Israel do that dirty work, then for the US to send soldiers over to die."
I think you meant let Israel do the dirty work of sending US soldiers over there to die.
Yeah, that kid with the back of his/her skull blown off would have been a real threat to a well armed Marine. And I bet that one with his/her guts spilled all over the table could drop a fighter jet just by waving threateningly at it.
Oh my God!!
who are the pentagon?
what power do they have
they are men yes?
we at the adl and aipac have rabbinical systems in place for controlling men yes sir rebob.
let them vent a little steam it is the summer after all my boyz.
let them talk tough.
but it is just talk you see we have the audio,mpeg4,raw photos of these men raping kids cutting hookers up,waterboarding the disabled.
when you have this kind of information the pentagon becomes putty in the hands of the rabbis already.
and see what great friends they really are by actions.
the idf is now fully resupplied thank you pentagram
hail satan
Thats what the DC Madam was about, and thats why they killed her.
Pentagon dissing Israel ...that country really does have no friends left
80 years and counting, how much longer before they get the message?
stand by for a Boeing Dreamliner to crash into the Pentagon hit by a stray BUK fired from New Jersey
canada/israhell = BFF
Helps view the actions of the Waffen-SS in a new light.
Israelis act like Waffen-SS and Kerry backs the descendants of the 14th Waffen SS 1st Galician Division in Ukraine.
In 1947, former soldiers of SS "Galizien" were allowed to immigrate to Canada[37] and to the United Kingdom.[38] The names of about 7,100 former soldiers of SS "Galizien" admitted to the UK have been stored in the so-called "Rimini List". Despite several requests of various lobby groups, the details of the list have never been publicly released.
"Says there’s little doubt about whose artillery was involved, pointing to statements by UN, Israel, even though incident still requires full investigation."
All artillery was gifted to Israel by America no less....
Time to block bank accounts of US death merchants and name the executives in a worldwide travel ban. Maybe banning weapons purchases from the US will ease West European consciences ?
Revelations 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Oh they'll find a way to spin this to make the Palestinians look bad
Hey, Zero Hedge Jungians, anyone want to interpret this dream for me?
I discovered Obama was coming to my old university, so I went and hid myself down in the archival stacks. At my Uni we had a big Russian studies department, and our library's basement was full of old Pravda newspapers and Soviet-era novels. Obama and his Secret Service came downstairs to check out the archives. I lay in wait to issue my demands.
One of Obama's demonic bodyguard, a female with silver hair, sensed that I was intruding and confronted me directly. She was wearing a two pieced outfit of red and black. We traded a few fients with our swords, and then she lunged forward and badly cut open my left arm, almost from elbow to wrist. I wasn't able to keep my balanced and blood flowed freely from my wound.
I took a step backward and cast the most powerful spell I could muster. A black sphere surrounded us, flecked with grey organelles and purple lightning. The very life started draining from the both of us, and she hissed as it choked her faster than it suffocated me.
"If you keep that up we'll both die," she groaned in distress.
I only amplified the power more, and almost immediately, she fell to her hands and knees and presented her neck to me.
She said, "I surrender."
I turned my attention away from her and back to Obama. In that moment she fled, but I had bigger fish to fry. I called to Obama over the stacks.
"What gives you the right to kill and torment so many innocent people?" I demanded.
Obama sidled behind the shelf, and before I could escape, I found that he saw and recognized me.
"What does it matter? Nobody cries for the Indians."
"No!" I shouted in response. "The crimes of the past don't excuse the sins of the present. In fact, they only compound them."
At that, he only grinned, with the cold dead smile of a bleached skull. I crumpled to the ground; the wound in my arm bled me badly, and I no longer had the strength to stand. Soon my friends rescued me and took me to a black market clinic.
Your dream ended too soon. The black market clinic is known and watched by the NSA and you were picked up five minutes later.
A couple more buttons ought to level that out.
I'll take a stab......
You live in Colorado and smoke too much weed?
Did I get it right?
j/k
If Israel wants to shell that huge UN shelter in New York and kill all the terrorists there I will send them a thank you card.
So, crowd source funding for the ordnance and fuel then?
Everything in time comes full circle.
Historians: Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Was Overreaction
I'm sure almost no one bothered to clink the link, they just agreed with the link title.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i7V7t_ATW8&list=UUweyNwo4cZM5gsIpuG4Zlew
Pentagon: "Only the DC US can bomb schools and shelters. Next thing you know they'll be bombing wedding parties. What's the world coming to when everyone cuts in on your murderous war-crimes?!"
Should be just about time for another four-hour cease fire...
So how exactly has the Zerohedge prediction that the situation was going to get a whole lot worse last week end up so far?
I would approve of the direct shelling of the UN.
sessinpo, -- I would approve of you carrying a bomb to Gaza.
"We already know that all is not well in US-Israeli relations (despite the ongoing funding) and John Kerry is not helping,"
I respect Tyler and the ZH crew, no doubt about it.
These guys are sharp and know A LOT.
However I must disagree with this sentence.
John Kerry is of a Jewish background. Just consider the following any time "TENSIONS" arise between the US and Israel:
Who has first dibs on the US STRATEGIC OIL RESERVE?
Yep, ISRAEL, not America.
Who gets billions of dollars in "loans" that are ALWAYS forgiven from the US?
Yep, Israel.
Who has been spying on us, US, and GETTING AWAY WITH IT? What group had the POWER to have the Fox series exposing it REMOVED? The Jewish Lobby:
Dec 12, 2001 ... Fox News correspondent Carl Cameron
Video: Israel Is Spying In And On The U.S.? Part 1
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
Video: Israel Is Spying In And On The U.S.? Part 2
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7544.htm
Video: Israel Is Spying In And On The U.S.? - Part 3
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6480.htm
Video: Israel Is Spying In And On The U.S.? - Part 4
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5133.htm
Who could attack in NEUTRAL WATERS, a United States Navy ship killing 34 sailors and wounding 134 more, and MACHINE-GUNNING the life rafts and GET AWAY WITH IT?
Yep, our "ally" Israel:
http://www.ussliberty.org/index2.html
There is so much more, so much, but these are just a sample.
Fuck ALL of that.
FACT: HAMAS AND THEIR ARAB DOUCHEBAGS ARE FUCKING DIRT NIGGERS, WILLING TO DO WHAT IS NEEDED TO WIPE OUT THE JEWS.
...AND BY JEWS...WE'RE TALKING THE POPULACE....
FACT: JEWISH PEOPLE (NOT THE GOD DAMNED FUCKING KNESSET) ARE PEACE LOVING PEOPLE, WHO MADE SOMETHING OUT OF NOTHING IN THE SAND.
THE DIRT NIGGERS NEVER MADE SQUAT WITH IT, NOR HAVE DONE ANYTHING BUT FIGHT AND BITCH AND BLOW UP SHIT...COWARDLY FUCKS HIDE BEHIND WOMEN AND CHILDREN....
AND....
FACT: THIS COUNTRY'S POLICIES OF LATE ARE FUCKING STUPID, AND SUPPORT THE HAMAS CUNTS.
.....AND IT WILL NOT END NICELY...
I see there are a LOT of PRO-HAMAS fuckstick assholes on here.
PROVE ME WRONG MOTHERFUCKERS.
(oh and a BIG P.S. - I'm not Jewish....so fuck yourselves)
US shoots down passenger Iranian jet murdering 300 plus men, women, and children.
Shitty time to be an American:
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert EinsteinFuck the UN. It is a failed institution and should be disbaded. As for Israel being an aprtheid evil state, really? Saudi Arabia is so much better I guess. Or if you want a Shiite example, then Iran is probably your exemplary paradise of human rights and good feeling? They are all pretty fucked but of all of them, Isrealis are by far the most "like us". And I will tell you what, if the stated goal of the guys occupying the UN building had stated that their goal is the destruction of your country and people, I do not think many would worry about blowing up a UN building, no matter who was inside.
This ain't Fallujah, dammit!
Whats the big deal???
Nobody bitched when Putin killed 200,000 Chechians..
Nobody bitched when we killed 500,000 Iraqi's....
Its war and they going to fight to the death and that is it.....
What's going on here is that the mob has lost the ability to distinguish between corporatism and Zionism and are treating them as the same exact thing.
These people must have been very confused at why anyone would hire snipers to shoot at both sides in Ukraine.
Conflict produces war profiteering opportunities, that's the real bottom line. Anyone hung up on Israel has fallen for the bait.
Just out of curiosity, how hard is it to patrol a 32 mile border and make sure there aren't any tunnels coming into Israel? Does Israel just do nothing for a few years and let them get built? I bring this up because it is now the excuse and propaganda Israel is using to continue the strikes and killing.
Josh Earnest?
Definition: Joke Seriously
Really? Who's writing the script on this crap
By paying taxes and supporting the beast here is Amerikkka you are also supporting anything and everything the corrupt government does and supports.
They really didn't understand the phrase "god's chosen".
Bend over zionists, this I well overdue, but thoroughly deserved. Start counting; by the thousand.
Evil is always, always inverted.
They chose god, just not the one we know.
they chose satan as god.
Let me scrape you off my boot, and properly introduce myself.
OK Pentagon, how many are the Israeli's allowed to kill.
How many men, how many women, how many children and how many others unable to defend themselves do you consider acceptable, YOU DUMD FUCKS.
Relax, and have a sweet.
a bir and a body count SIR!
My guess is that 90% of all building in Gaza are UN shelters! Maybe 95%?
Has anyone noticed that the DHS has been silent on illegal immigrants crossing the border without a visa? Here’s the reason.
http://www.dhs.gov/
Home warming gift for Americans.
Gaza will not fold, Gaza will astonish the world...
Casinos and Cirque du Soliez?
Love Bunker.
Welcoming New Citizens
http://www.dhs.gov/photo/welcoming-new-citizens?utm_source=hp_feature&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=dhs_hp
I mean really, the nerve!! How can we get a good war going if the Israelis wipe out the opposition and their ability to fight within the first couple of weeks?
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/30/Hamas-TV-Muslims-to-exterminate-the-Jews
brietbart.com hijacked by Big Jews after he died.
Any country whose primary foreign policy goal is the continued subversion of the US political system is an enemy.
That's the primary foreign policy goal of EVERY country, thanks to the US getting all up in everyone's business for seven decades and not taking "no" for an answer.
It's called "blowback".
Open borders and welfare for 30 million foreign felons? Good point.
Israel Cabinet Says Intensify Gaza War
US Sending Israel More Offensive Weapons
Who Started ‘the Cycle of Violence’ in Palestine?
The puppet masters got their hand slapped? Zionist Hebs shelling innocent children... Can't wait to see how many sanctions the West applies to Isreal... wafj
What are these "Terror Tunnels" you speak of?
Are you talking about the tunnels under Warsaw, that allowed German 'dissidents' to excape the Nazis? Are you talking about the tunnels the Viet Cong used to avoid chemical weapon attacks, such as napalm and Agent Orange?
Quick, another distraction! Got to sell the 'precision missile defence system' before China releases their cheaper alternative (bogus statistics included!). Bring out the suicide donkeys! The Shoah must go on!
These Terror tunnels are very advanced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJe5l_ELSA
You mean like the tunnels that are dug by illegal immigrants who are hiding from the shelling and the chemical weapon attacks and ..... wait a minute, they aren't being attacked. they are trying to invade the country. they are economic weapons of mass destruction. Its the cloward piven precision missle.
just like these tunnels.
http://news.yahoo.com/egypt-army-destroys-13-more-gaza-tunnels-093712884...
Invaders commonly use tunnels to invade countries. It is common strategy.
In the meantime, people who are known not to use tunnels to meet their aims: prisonners.
So few prisoners used tunnels to escape their prison, so many invaders used tunnels to invade places.
It is so obvious, how can people not see?
Signed: an American.
I encourage all to watch online:
"Henry Siegman, Leading Voice of U.S. Jewry, on Gaza: "A Slaughter of Innocents"
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/30/henry_siegman_leading_voice_of_us
and "U.S. Jewish Leader Henry Siegman to Israel: Stop Killing Palestinians and End the Occupation"
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/31/us_jewish_leader_henry_siegman_to?...
Siegman reveals that civilians have been a favorite intentional target of the Israeli military, and Zionist terrorist groups, since day one of the formation of Israel; in fact, he says, 2 of their prime Ministers were members of Israeli terror groups. This guy pulls no punches - very refreshing admissions from an American Jewish leader whose father was active in the Zionist movement in Europe. I am going to watch the 2nd part right now. BTW, a transcript is available if one would rather read the interview.
Apparently the group he leads has no political influence.
The UN gave the Israelis the GPS coordinates to that UN shelter 17 times.
SO?
Will the United States Taxpayers continue to be bilked to pay for it?
Are there going to be sanctions targeted at the Israeli leadership and Israeli Banks?
Pentagon or PentaPUSSSIES?
By UN shelter do they the armoury?
UN spokesman (British) breaks down in tears less than one minute into Gaza interview.
And he really knows whats going on over there.
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/07/un-spokesman-breaks-down-...
What the hell do you mean "totally indefensible" This is totally genocide.
I'm afraid you do not know what that word means.
You haven't a clue what the term genocide means according the conventions on war crimes and crimes against humanity. Nor would so many of you whom have probably never progressed much beyond minimum wage jobs if you even work or own a business, sans drug dealing or some other debauched trade. If Muslim, Jihad is a trade as well.
Our moral compass has been broken for so long we dont have the right to point fingers at any nation for anything at this point in time. Doing this only makes the US look more ridiculous and comical. Well comical if the actions weren't so damaging to all involved.
Perhaps its time for US government agencies and leaders take a good long hard look in the mirror and fix our own house before we start admonishing and judging other houses. If you don't like the way the world looks perhaps it has more to do with the problems from within than the world itself.
The term "Ugly American" is becoming to easy and real. But US "leaders" will continue to bloviate, posture, preen, politic all the way to the bank in a typical self serving manner while the country goes to hell in a hand basket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slKNd22GGaQ
War is not a spectator sport. In the age of the embedded reporter, people expect war to be fought with please and thank you, do be careful and all that, but in truth it must be fought savagely..and without mercy.
Furthermore, if an enemy has shown itself to disregard the "sanctity" of UN shelters, i.e storing missiles and staging attacks from these shelters, then it becomes a defacto military target.
Final thought: Syrian dead, at the hands of their own leaders, is less impactful with you shitheads because your go to villain...Israel is not involved. Fuck palestine and fuck the UN.
it must be fought savagely..and without mercy.
____________________________________
Djeee, that sounds as 'americans' wanted the Indians to sound.
In all cases, that is an 'american' point of view. How comes?
Indian tribes were quite barbaric for the most part.
My view is not American, it is rooted in what is clearly a better understanding of the history of warfare than you have.
Truth is revealed more clearly everyday, Hamas are terrorists, with one goal, promote division, destruction, Wake up America, war is here! Hamas demands will Not end the bloodshed, merely encourage it.
Our country is divided and at war, our politicians spineless, our people are asleep, pray for vision, truth and courage for those awake.
God Bless Israel!
"God" is doing this TO Israel.
“Cowboy’s and Jews” might work better than “Cowboy’s and Muslims”, eh.
3 yrs 41 weeks?
Dubious.
Even the filthy Islamic Hordes trick and fool you in a sympathy ploy. There are a shocking amount of people here with no critical thinking skills. I swear the average IQ of Western Civilization has dropped 20 points in the last 10 years. Jesus you people are stupid.
Middle East Hall of Shame
they consult GM to figure out what the acceptable number of casualites (or accidental deaths) should be. then we have to figure how much it will cost Israeli in litigation to settle the wrongful death claims (what's that you say zero, it costs israel nothing to settle these wrongful death cases, well then the cost can never be too high) never mind
We need to invade israel immediately to stop this.
Well contact Bathhouse Barry at his white hut switchboard. I'm sure they'll appreciate your sentiments.
59 Israelis dead so they call up 13,000 reservists.
Why?
Because they are going into the West Bank as well.
Why they are already there, you big dummy.
Sure a lot of talk about Satan on the site.Sounds like we have a bunch of religious wacked out nutcases.I'll paint myself red,put on my horns and hooves and chase you around the barnyard with my pitchfork.Stab you in the rump.We're just missing the fire and brimstone raining from heaven and the burning in eternal hell crapola.None of these wackos can ever get around the fact that there's not a shred of historical proof that Jesus ever existed.It's a con job.The virgin birth nonsense is on most ancient architecture that was built thousands of years ago and dozens of prophets have all claimed the same bullshit.This Jesus junk isn't for educated people,it's for morons who are just like opium smokers living in a dream.
Shall I call you professor? Can you tell what deep scholarly study you did to reach this conclusion or did you just happen to pick that line up from Richard Carrier's book?
There are plenty accounts apart form the Christian Bible that talks about Jesus or Christus as the Romans called him. Some of these accounts call hima fraud and a phony but6 they don't deny his existence.
But I guess we are all entitled to our own opinion.
Evidence from Tacitus
Although there is overwhelming evidence that the New Testament is an accurate and trustworthy historical document, many people are still reluctant to believe what it says unless there is also some independent, non-biblical testimony that corroborates its statements. In the introduction to one of his books, F.F. Bruce tells about a Christian correspondent who was told by an agnostic friend that "apart from obscure references in Josephus and the like," there was no historical evidence for the life of Jesus outside the Bible.{1} This, he wrote to Bruce, had caused him "great concern and some little upset in [his] spiritual life."{2} He concludes his letter by asking, "Is such collateral proof available, and if not, are there reasons for the lack of it?"{3} The answer to this question is, "Yes, such collateral proof is available," and we will be looking at some of it in this article.
Let's begin our inquiry with a passage that historian Edwin Yamauchi calls "probably the most important reference to Jesus outside the New Testament."{4} Reporting on Emperor Nero's decision to blame the Christians for the fire that had destroyed Rome in A.D. 64, the Roman historian Tacitus wrote:
Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome. . . .{5}
What all can we learn from this ancient (and rather unsympathetic) reference to Jesus and the early Christians? Notice, first, that Tacitus reports Christians derived their name from a historical person called Christus (from the Latin), or Christ. He is said to have "suffered the extreme penalty," obviously alluding to the Roman method of execution known as crucifixion. This is said to have occurred during the reign of Tiberius and by the sentence of Pontius Pilatus. This confirms much of what the Gospels tell us about the death of Jesus.
But what are we to make of Tacitus' rather enigmatic statement that Christ's death briefly checked "a most mischievous superstition," which subsequently arose not only in Judaea, but also in Rome? One historian suggests that Tacitus is here "bearing indirect . . . testimony to the conviction of the early church that the Christ who had been crucified had risen from the grave."{6} While this interpretation is admittedly speculative, it does help explain the otherwise bizarre occurrence of a rapidly growing religion based on the worship of a man who had been crucified as a criminal.{7} How else might one explain that?
Evidence from Pliny the Younger
Another important source of evidence about Jesus and early Christianity can be found in the letters of Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan. Pliny was the Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. In one of his letters, dated around A.D. 112, he asks Trajan's advice about the appropriate way to conduct legal proceedings against those accused of being Christians.{8} Pliny says that he needed to consult the emperor about this issue because a great multitude of every age, class, and sex stood accused of Christianity.{9}
At one point in his letter, Pliny relates some of the information he has learned about these Christians:
They were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind.{10}
This passage provides us with a number of interesting insights into the beliefs and practices of early Christians. First, we see that Christians regularly met on a certain fixed day for worship. Second, their worship was directed to Christ, demonstrating that they firmly believed in His divinity. Furthermore, one scholar interprets Pliny's statement that hymns were sung to Christ, as to a god, as a reference to the rather distinctive fact that, "unlike other gods who were worshipped, Christ was a person who had lived on earth."{11} If this interpretation is correct, Pliny understood that Christians were worshipping an actual historical person as God! Of course, this agrees perfectly with the New Testament doctrine that Jesus was both God and man.
Not only does Pliny's letter help us understand what early Christians believed about Jesus' person, it also reveals the high esteem to which they held His teachings. For instance, Pliny notes that Christians bound themselves by a solemn oath not to violate various moral standards, which find their source in the ethical teachings of Jesus. In addition, Pliny's reference to the Christian custom of sharing a common meal likely alludes to their observance of communion and the "love feast."{12} This interpretation helps explain the Christian claim that the meal was merely food of an ordinary and innocent kind. They were attempting to counter the charge, sometimes made by non-Christians, of practicing "ritual cannibalism."{13} The Christians of that day humbly repudiated such slanderous attacks on Jesus' teachings. We must sometimes do the same today.
Evidence from Josephus
Perhaps the most remarkable reference to Jesus outside the Bible can be found in the writings of Josephus, a first century Jewish historian. On two occasions, in his Jewish Antiquities, he mentions Jesus. The second, less revealing, reference describes the condemnation of one "James" by the Jewish Sanhedrin. This James, says Josephus, was "the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ."{14} F.F. Bruce points out how this agrees with Paul's description of James in Galatians 1:19 as "the Lord's brother."{15} And Edwin Yamauchi informs us that "few scholars have questioned" that Josephus actually penned this passage.{16}
As interesting as this brief reference is, there is an earlier one, which is truly astonishing. Called the "Testimonium Flavianum," the relevant portion declares:
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he . . . wrought surprising feats. . . . He was the Christ. When Pilate . . .condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared . . . restored to life. . . . And the tribe of Christians . . . has . . . not disappeared.{17}
Did Josephus really write this? Most scholars think the core of the passage originated with Josephus, but that it was later altered by a Christian editor, possibly between the third and fourth century A.D.{18} But why do they think it was altered? Josephus was not a Christian, and it is difficult to believe that anyone but a Christian would have made some of these statements.{19}
For instance, the claim that Jesus was a wise man seems authentic, but the qualifying phrase, "if indeed one ought to call him a man," is suspect. It implies that Jesus was more than human, and it is quite unlikely that Josephus would have said that! It is also difficult to believe he would have flatly asserted that Jesus was the Christ, especially when he later refers to Jesus as "the so-called" Christ. Finally, the claim that on the third day Jesus appeared to His disciples restored to life, inasmuch as it affirms Jesus' resurrection, is quite unlikely to come from a non-Christian!
But even if we disregard the questionable parts of this passage, we are still left with a good deal of corroborating information about the biblical Jesus. We read that he was a wise man who performed surprising feats. And although He was crucified under Pilate, His followers continued their discipleship and became known as Christians. When we combine these statements with Josephus' later reference to Jesus as "the so-called Christ," a rather detailed picture emerges which harmonizes quite well with the biblical record. It increasingly appears that the "biblical Jesus" and the "historical Jesus" are one and the same!
Evidence from the Babylonian Talmud
There are only a few clear references to Jesus in the Babylonian Talmud, a collection of Jewish rabbinical writings compiled between approximately A.D. 70-500. Given this time frame, it is naturally supposed that earlier references to Jesus are more likely to be historically reliable than later ones. In the case of the Talmud, the earliest period of compilation occurred between A.D. 70-200.{20} The most significant reference to Jesus from this period states:
On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald . . . cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy."{21}
Let's examine this passage. You may have noticed that it refers to someone named "Yeshu." So why do we think this is Jesus? Actually, "Yeshu" (or "Yeshua") is how Jesus' name is pronounced in Hebrew. But what does the passage mean by saying that Jesus "was hanged"? Doesn't the New Testament say he was crucified? Indeed it does. But the term "hanged" can function as a synonym for "crucified." For instance, Galatians 3:13 declares that Christ was "hanged", and Luke 23:39 applies this term to the criminals who were crucified with Jesus.{22} So the Talmud declares that Jesus was crucified on the eve of Passover. But what of the cry of the herald that Jesus was to be stoned? This may simply indicate what the Jewish leaders were planning to do.{23} If so, Roman involvement changed their plans!{24}
The passage also tells us why Jesus was crucified. It claims He practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy! Since this accusation comes from a rather hostile source, we should not be too surprised if Jesus is described somewhat differently than in the New Testament. But if we make allowances for this, what might such charges imply about Jesus?
Interestingly, both accusations have close parallels in the canonical gospels. For instance, the charge of sorcery is similar to the Pharisees' accusation that Jesus cast out demons "by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons."{25} But notice this: such a charge actually tends to confirm the New Testament claim that Jesus performed miraculous feats. Apparently Jesus' miracles were too well attested to deny. The only alternative was to ascribe them to sorcery! Likewise, the charge of enticing Israel to apostasy parallels Luke's account of the Jewish leaders who accused Jesus of misleading the nation with his teaching.{26} Such a charge tends to corroborate the New Testament record of Jesus' powerful teaching ministry. Thus, if read carefully, this passage from the Talmud confirms much of our knowledge about Jesus from the New Testament.
Evidence from Lucian
Lucian of Samosata was a second century Greek satirist. In one of his works, he wrote of the early Christians as follows:
The Christians . . . worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . [It] was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.{27}
Although Lucian is jesting here at the early Christians, he does make some significant comments about their founder. For instance, he says the Christians worshipped a man, "who introduced their novel rites." And though this man's followers clearly thought quite highly of Him, He so angered many of His contemporaries with His teaching that He "was crucified on that account."
Although Lucian does not mention his name, he is clearly referring to Jesus. But what did Jesus teach to arouse such wrath? According to Lucian, he taught that all men are brothers from the moment of their conversion. That's harmless enough. But what did this conversion involve? It involved denying the Greek gods, worshipping Jesus, and living according to His teachings. It's not too difficult to imagine someone being killed for teaching that. Though Lucian doesn't say so explicitly, the Christian denial of other gods combined with their worship of Jesus implies the belief that Jesus was more than human. Since they denied other gods in order to worship Him, they apparently thought Jesus a greater God than any that Greece had to offer!
Let's summarize what we've learned about Jesus from this examination of ancient non-Christian sources. First, both Josephus and Lucian indicate that Jesus was regarded as wise. Second, Pliny, the Talmud, and Lucian imply He was a powerful and revered teacher. Third, both Josephus and the Talmud indicate He performed miraculous feats. Fourth, Tacitus, Josephus, the Talmud, and Lucian all mention that He was crucified. Tacitus and Josephus say this occurred under Pontius Pilate. And the Talmud declares it happened on the eve of Passover. Fifth, there are possible references to the Christian belief in Jesus' resurrection in both Tacitus and Josephus. Sixth, Josephus records that Jesus' followers believed He was the Christ, or Messiah. And finally, both Pliny and Lucian indicate that Christians worshipped Jesus as God!
I hope you see how this small selection of ancient non-Christian sources helps corroborate our knowledge of Jesus from the gospels. Of course, there are many ancient Christian sources of information about Jesus as well. But since the historical reliability of the canonical gospels is so well established, I invite you to read those for an authoritative "life of Jesus!"
Notes
1. F. F. Bruce, Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament (Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1974), 13.
2. Ibid.
3. Ibid.
4. Edwin Yamauchi, quoted in Lee Strobel, The Case for Christ (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1998), 82.
5. Tacitus, Annals 15.44, cited in Strobel, The Case for Christ, 82.
6. N.D. Anderson, Christianity: The Witness of History (London: Tyndale, 1969), 19, cited in Gary R. Habermas, The Historical Jesus (Joplin, Missouri: College Press Publishing Company, 1996), 189-190.
7. Edwin Yamauchi, cited in Strobel, The Case for Christ, 82.
8. Pliny, Epistles x. 96, cited in Bruce, Christian Origins, 25; Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 198.
9. Ibid., 27.
10. Pliny, Letters, transl. by William Melmoth, rev. by W.M.L. Hutchinson (Cambridge: Harvard Univ. Press, 1935), vol. II, X:96, cited in Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 199.
11. M. Harris, "References to Jesus in Early Classical Authors," in Gospel Perspectives V, 354-55, cited in E. Yamauchi, "Jesus Outside the New Testament: What is the Evidence?", in Jesus Under Fire, ed. by Michael J. Wilkins and J.P. Moreland (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1995), p. 227, note 66.
12. Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 199.
13. Bruce, Christian Origins, 28.
14. Josephus, Antiquities xx. 200, cited in Bruce, Christian Origins, 36.
15. Ibid.
16. Yamauchi, "Jesus Outside the New Testament", 212.
17. Josephus, Antiquities 18.63-64, cited in Yamauchi, "Jesus Outside the New Testament", 212.
18. Ibid.
19. Although time would not permit me to mention it on the radio, another version of Josephus' "Testimonium Flavianum" survives in a tenth-century Arabic version (Bruce, Christian Origins, 41). In 1971, Professor Schlomo Pines published a study on this passage. The passage is interesting because it lacks most of the questionable elements that many scholars believe to be Christian interpolations. Indeed, "as Schlomo Pines and David Flusser...stated, it is quite plausible that none of the arguments against Josephus writing the original words even applies to the Arabic text, especially since the latter would have had less chance of being censored by the church" (Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 194). The passage reads as follows: "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. His conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." (Quoted in James H. Charlesworth, Jesus Within Judaism, (Garden City: Doubleday, 1988), 95, cited in Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 194).
20. Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 202-03.
21. The Babylonian Talmud, transl. by I. Epstein (London: Soncino, 1935), vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a, 281, cited in Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 203.
22. Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 203.
23. See John 8:58-59 and 10:31-33.
24. Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 204. See also John 18:31-32.
25. Matt. 12:24. I gleaned this observation from Bruce, Christian Origins, 56.
26. Luke 23:2, 5.
27. Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11-13, in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, transl. by H.W. Fowler and F.G. Fowler, 4 vols. (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949), vol. 4., cited in Habermas, The Historical Jesus, 206.
=> Charlie Sheen exists.
=> Charlie Sheen is a tiger-blooded warlock rock-star from Mars.
Confidence is not certainty. The weight of historical evidence suggesting a specific person may have existed, lends no credibility to unsubstantiated claims about that person. See: The History, by Herodotus.
wouldn't want to hurt your brain
clueless
Herodotus has accounts of people interacting with the god Pan. Do people believe that a goat-headed hippy is fucking nymphs in the woods, and smiting Persians that wander on to his turf?
Be a good Christian and turn the other cheek, you ignorant fuck.
there were plenty of people named joshua, and plenty of messiahs - just about all of your proof above isn't proof of anything but the notion people were walking around claiming to be the messiah
www.jesusneverexisted.com
When Israel uses artillery to shell residential neighborhoods even the Americans have to admit that Israel is fucking up. Air strikes, that's in the somewhat acceptable level for Americans when it comes to civilian casualties, but artillery is a bit different story.
Where are those non residential neighborhoods where the Gov't of Gaza is conducting its self defense operations?
I'd like to put a request in to the IDF to bomb the UN building in New York City.
A little too late to for you to speak out
but we know its a Muppet show, just remember people r dying while u play this game
-
http://newamerica-now.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-israeli-dream-criminal-ro...
So is Israel our new "bogeyman"? I mean something really big must be going down (out of the public eye ofcourse) for them to be publically attacking Israel and exposing (a tiny portion of) the attrocities committed by Israel against the Palestinians.
So what is the situation?
The US American middle class deeply support the operations in Gaza.
As expected, the 'american' servants to the middle class are out to try to minimize the angle, to paint another picture, by calling for restraint, in a sort of lame effort to divert from the inconditional support by the 'american' middle class, that must be protected at all costs.
In the meantime, the 'american' negro in Washington, who was a bit overzealous and appeared to mean it, is now indicted after a report showing he meant it a bit too much was leaked.
Nothing new in 'american' land. Protect and serve the 'american' middle class. At all costs.
For those who identify with the Christian Faith and then back Israel whole heartedly and blindly, I have news for you...there are Christians in GAZA!!!
Christians suffer in Gaza and in the West Bank ...Palestinian Christians...Arab Christians, because basically Israel does not distinguish between a Palestinian Moslem or a Palestinian Christian.
There are many ancient Christian Churches in the Middle East and were at one many Christians. There is a Christian Church in Gaza and it is located in the old city area called Az Zaitoun. It was constructed around 406 AD. In fact this church Saint Porphyrius is giving shelter to Moslems and Christians
For all of those who have a deep concern for the plight of the people in Gaza, there is a a way to help.
Check out these two sites.
http://www.antiochian.org/node/19273
http://www.iocc.org/news/7-11-14jwbg-iocc-mobilizes.aspx
They don't care, they are Kristian Zionists, aka Satanists.
HOw many Christians lived in Lebanon in 1970 how many today? Not even half as many...hundreds of thousands terrorized by the Muslims and specifically the Fauxlestinians of Arafart.
Now hundreds of thousands in Iraq and Syria terrorized like right out of Nazi Germany, but hey the Arabs fought for Hitler, the Holy Grand Mufti of Jerusalem actively assisted the SS in murdering Jews.
Millions of Coptics terrorized in Egypt specifically by Hamas' mentor, the Muslim Brotherhood. War is the answer.
"Totally Indefensible" is actually " Totally Financeable"
Blumenthal on the pre-text.
http://scotthorton.org/interviews/2014/07/20/072014-max-blumenthal/
funny how this didn't really "make the news" - eh?
When did the Faculty of Law was a Jew, always a yarmulke.
The guy was weird, had feelings of persecution, when he saw a gathering with people laughing intruded and asked if they were laughing at him.
I've walked fed up with the guy ... Many people were ... No one had the courage to go up against him, in the background we had pen and actually even talked about it in our conversations.
But the guy kept getting into where it should not.
On a Friday night after school, I was taking the class with a few beers at a table chatting away, telling jokes, and the elf appeared, went straight to ask if we were talking about him.
I am of Austrian descent and was half stoned. I let the can: - Yes, we're talking about you, I was explaining how my grandparents did churrrrasco your grandparents .....
Putz!
The guy nearly had a leg!
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
I regret but not apologized, the guy was very annoying, he be damned.
Another thing:
I'm not politically correct and put a negative in my comments does not afflict.
Telling the truth hurts some people's ass.
hehe.
Apparently Israel is supposed to just let rockets land on them and their citizenry? I mean it's not like the folks firing them COULDN'T move the launchers out of populated areas.
You throw a rock at me and I shoot you - don't be upset because I'm better armed.
Some of the Israel bashing on this site would be right in line with Stormfront.
Peter Beinart demolishes Gaza hasbara~~~~~~
Israel Right or Wrong? But What's In It For Americans?
www.unz.COM/pgiraldi/israel-right-or-wrong/
~~~~~~
Who knows how many people rockets have killed ever?
HINT: It's less than the number of Palestinian *children* Israel's fighter jets have killed in the past 2 days alone.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In fact, *Israel* started this cycle of violence - this isn't about Hamas firing rockets
first, out of nowhere - they came *after* Israel's multiple air strikes, bulldozing of homes and hundreds of arrests without charge, all done while premised on the LIE that Hamas had committed 3 kidnappings - which they did not. Even the Israeli government is conceding as much now, but after killing a couple dozen Palestinians, Israel's government got the rockets it wanted, and the cooperation from the corporate MSM it expected, and for thousands of hasbara trolls, who use NAZI tactics of repeating lies over and over, the narrative is solely about "Hamas' rockets." As if their use could ever justify bombing hospitals and schools where people are sheltering.
original.antiwar.COM/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-violence-in-palestine/
`
scotthorton.ORG/interviews/2014/07/20/072014-max-blumenthal/
`
nymag.COM/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Confused about Hamas, ‘rockets’, war in Gaza? Vital background facts:
www.examiner.COM/article/confused-about-hamas-rockets-war-gaza-vital-bac...
...but keep proving Godwin's Law as you justify the murder of hundreds of kids, you dumb evil hasbara fuck.
you seem to forget israel started this(and every other round dating to the 30s) with a fabricated story about the kidnapping and killing of three israeli kids by hamas. besides not making sense for hamas isis claimed responsibility. you israelis are murderers as a nation and as a people.
What is your Handle? SnatchnGrab? What's in your name you twit? You piece of shit. Apparently you are a total asshole. Ever hear the expression "sticks and stones?"
Zionist, NEW "so-called Jews" love to murder Sephardic Jews, Palestinians, Goys and anything that moves. Just like stock traders that will rip off your grandmother in a confidence scheme. They are the shit of the earth. And you have a boner for them.
Why don't you go and get in the shit with them? You are a willfully ignorant piece of shit. It's not like the US didn't have to Firebomb Dresden, Tokyo, and Nuke two cities in Nippon. But they did. You're talking about a spitwad over a fence and you are a total human travesty. Fuck you and your mother.
Your mother is so proud of you isn't she? College grad in PoliSci? Bwaaaaaaaaaa
I lean to BeetleBailey's point of view.
Oil money has enabled a rather deficient culture.
So has drug money.
So has welfare.
And those enabled are really morally bankrupt. Basically because they haven't earned their life.
Using religion as an excuse to murder? Digging tunnels to advance harm? Using children to protect rockets?
Mass executions by ISIS in the name of whom?
A house full of cockroaches is infested. So is a heart full of hate, or greed, or envy, or addiction.
I do not see a problem in resolving infestation.
If my neighbors were digging under my yard and lobbing rockets into my yard, I would demand they stop.
And if they persisted, I would feel justified in taking them out.
What am I missing?
How many iraqi civillians died???
If they want to kill civilians, they should just drop bombs on Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan, places where the Pentagon seems to have no problems with it.
Stop Hamas from using human shields. They started this shit so let israel finish it.
Are you ignorant or a hasbara troll? Israel started this cycle of violence -
original.antiwar.COM/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-violence-in-palestine/
scotthorton.ORG/interviews/2014/07/20/072014-max-blumenthal/
nymag.COM/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html
www.examiner.COM/article/confused-about-hamas-rockets-war-gaza-vital-bac...
Jordan and Pakistan killed 25K Palestinians in Black September. They have always been a terrorist people from the time of the PLO.
http://middleeast.about.com/od/terrorism/g/black-september-definition.htm
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?147003-Pakistan-s-Role-in-Blac...
The Jews who had a much longer claim to the land were attacked from all sides in 1948 because Muslims couldn't see past this map:
http://www.opinionbug.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/mideast-map-occupation.jpg
http://vimeo.com/98803639
what a depraved bunch of wackos. condemn israel for atrocities while supplying them the weapons to carry out the slaughter meanwhile asserting there is nothing the usa can do about israel's behavior. the most powerful nation in history is claiming impotence against one of the smallest countries in the world. NUKE ISRAEL FOR PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST!!!
Excellent article from Phil Giraldi: http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israel-right-or-wrong/
What Israel needs to consider, is to park the planes and return artillery and missile fire, shell for shell. Triangulation of missile/artillery fire is well honed technology and it is deadly accurate. The Gazan war would end in oh about 1 day. Of course many thousands of so called civilians would die in that same 1 day period, but it would certainly remind the Culture of Death that their wishes will be granted.