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Flight MH17 - What You're Not Being Told
Who was really responsible for the downing of flight MH17? Let's take a look at the facts...
On July 17th, 2014 two major events took place: Malaysian flight MH17 was downed over eastern Ukraine, presumably by a missile, and Israel began a ground invasion of Gaza. Israel's invasion was granted an almost complete media blackout. The MH17 tragedy, however, got full coverage, and was immediately propagandized. (This in spite of the fact that far more civilians have been killed by Israel's bombardment of Gaza over the past few weeks.)
The U.S. government and the western media pinned the responsibility for the MH17 tragedy on Russia within minutes, long before investigators had time to even arrive at the scene, much less provide any actual conclusions. Then came an all out information war, with lies, omissions and disinformation coming from all sides.
The geopolitical implications of this event should not be underestimated. If this was ever in doubt, the fact that Obama just sent military advisers to Ukraine to help Kiev in its assault against the east should make it very clear. Depending on how much mileage Washington can get out of it, the downing of flight MH17 could end up being extremely pivotal.
Anyone who knows their history, knows that media coverage of events like these often lay the psychological groundwork for war. Consider the sinking of the Lusitania for example on 5/7/1915 (or the murder archduke Ferdinand in 1914). These combined with the Zimmermann Telegram (which was dispatched on 1/16/1917) pushed US public opinion over the tipping point, and on 4/6/1917 the United States declared war on Germany.
It is worth noting that though the U.S. denied it at the time, later diving expeditions revealed that the Lusitania was indeed smuggling war munitions at the time that was sunk (as Germany had asserted from the beginning). Of course, by the time the truth was known it was far too late for the 116,000 Americans who were killed in that conflict.
So who was REALLY responsible for the downing of flight MH17?
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What you say may or may not be true, but are Russia the ones here spoiling for a fight with the West that could with a bunch of misunderstandings thrown in (pretty much inevitable in any conflict/ war) spiral into nuclear missiles being fired criss-crossing the Atlantic?
From watching this whole situation develop since November 2013 - the emphatic answer is no - not in the slightest. If the US/Poland/UK/NATO had just have stayed the fuck out of Ukraine after Yanukovych decided to turn to Russia - we would not be in this shitstorm right now.
Nowhere near it. Therefore tha blame lies at the foot of the US/Poland/UK more than anyone else.
I (too) have not seen the crashed fuselage of MH17 up close, however has anyone?
As of today I'd say the Dutch, Australian, and Malaysian inspectors have seen the wreckage up close.
Given the weight of the body of a passenger jet, its hard to imagine that anyone made off with anything larger than refrigerator carton size portions of the fuselage with the tell tale Russian BUK markings on them.
The only party interested in destroying the wreckage evidence would the the US and Ukraine.
Why? To demolish all traces of Ukrainian jet cannon fire at MH17.
But soon we will hear, probably from the altered air traffic controller tapes and corroborated by US radar, that Russian jets, scrambled east of the border, to shoot down MH17.
And when that happens, no dout you'll be there waving your Mickey Mouse size American flag.
Tyler Durden, you have cut yourself off from the real world here.
Putin is trying to control Ukraine, & he is failing, so far. He enabled Russian terrorists to enter East Ukraine, they've been torturing prisoners, & brought down several Ukrainian aircraft.
You seem to literally spin every little detail to support an absurdity. It seems you are following the model of Stephen Cohen, one of the few fans of Putin. I found NONE of your links to Ukrainian culpability remotely credible.
I really must filter out some of my web meanderings, maybe you will have to go!
Patrick Sullivan
You are seriously misguided to think that Putin is the one pushing this agenda. How many posts have ZH provided to you that has become conspiracy fact rather than theory?
If you are following both sides of the News Coverage, lets say FOX/BBC and RT news, and look at the quality of the journalism and evidence that has been provided to you along with what has been made available in alternative media only a sane man would come to the conclusion that this is not a Putin driven agenda.
Dont get me wrong i am not pro Putin, i am pro peace.
Patrick Sullivan, you have cut yourself off from the real world here.
The western oligarchs are trying to control Ukraine, & they are failing, so far. They enabled fascist, ultra-nationalists to enter the Kiev junta, the Ukrainian military have been torturing Eastern Ukrainians, & decimated several buildings with innocent civilians inside.
You seem to literally spin every little detail to support an absurdity. It seems you are following the model of the western (american) media complex, one of the few fans of western oligarchy. I found NONE of your links to Russian culpability remotely credible.
I really must filter out some of my web meanderings, maybe you will have to go!
trader1
Please explain to me if you are fighting to defend your home, and you shoot down the invaders warcraft - what the problem is?
Yes, clearly Russians have come across the border to help their brethren and offer their expertise, what of it? If there was no local support for a pro-Russian viewpoint in Eastern Ukraine (have you ever even looked at the recent results of Ukrainian Presidential Elections????????? There is clearly a lot of support for Russia in East Ukraine), there would be no one in Donestk/ Luhansk for the Russians coming across the border to support.
Your comment is ignorant and misguided mate.
Tell me - you are aware the US spent $5 billion fomenting rebellion in Ukraine - which was admitted by Victoria Nuland (have you seen the video - which is on YouTube)? Have you? It seems you haven't done much research on the whole situation and fail to recognise the coup d'etat that took place in February this year - funded by the US Government.
You are aware of that right? I don't see much support for Putin here - what I see is a struggle for the truth.
Are you aware of any false flags ever pulled by the US?
Do you believe there are WMDs in Iraq that justified that invasion?
Please answer some of these questions mate, or else it indicates that lack of research you've put in.
yeah stick with MSM you're a perfect drone.
The only thing I would say, in Patrick's defence.
He's made it to Zero Hedge - which indicates he's at least trying to understand what's going on.
That is more than I can say for 99% of folks out there. Probably 99.9% of folks.
At least if he's got this far, he must have some degree of scepticism of what the MSM tells him he should be thinking. Give him that. And I also think its important to try and open the eyes of anyone who happens along to ZeroHedge (or likewise sites) - at least with them there is some chance as opposed to the great many zombies that we all live alongside. The "sheeple".
The other thing is mate - if you're reading this - don't truat anyone here - go out and do your own research and draw your own conclusions.
In terms of Ukraine - go back to October/ November 2013 and read Zerohedge from that point forward in relation to Ukraine (and then you'll know where to search on the Interwebz to have a real sense of what's gone on over the last year or so).
One other thing - look at when the whole Syria chemical weapons false flag thing started going south. Not long before things began to heat up in Ukraine. Surely you can draw the connection.
The Ukraine plan was ready to roll whenever needed - and was perhaps from a long-time earlier, targeted at happening during the Sochi Winter Olympics. But when the Syria chemical weapons narrative fell over (mainly because Britons & Americans told their representatives to "SHOVE IT") - then the "cabal" that orchestrate these sort of things, moved on.
And now the friend in Syria (ISIS) is now in Iraq (IS).
One thing further I've noticed recently is - just as Turkey appears to be drifting towards the BRICS (perhaps this month or next - Turkish Presidential Election this weekend!).
What happens????????
A dormant conflict between Orthodox Christian Armenia (Friend of Russia) and Sunni Turkis Azerbaijan (Friend of Turkey) - is re-ignited!!!
Why on Earth is that??? It would appear this is another conflict that's been on the backburner but is always there to drive Russia & Turkey apart.
It would appear this conflict is being ramped right now precisely to keep Erodgan in line and in NATO during the next couple of months - when in fact the sensible option for Erdogan would be to junk NATO (perhaps at the Wales NATO Summit (September 4) or perhaps a week later (September 11) - nice symbolism ha? - and move to neutrality.
Are people here aware that in World War 2 Turkish neutrality - and the closing of the Bosporus to Nazi warships - was one of the reasons Russia was able to defeat Turkey and the Allies to win World War 2 in the first place???
History repeating again.
Can Erdogan escape the trap that is being set for him and get out of NATO before its too late?????? I reckon he has until mid-September (Swedish Election) to pull the trigger on exiting NATO... Can he do it?
Just saying, John Khon became Johnny Kerry. Ask him how the weather is in the settlement. See if he takes the bait.
Wander off and get a clue.
I followed this story in real time. It screams cover up. Best summary of events that I have come across:
However, a funny thing happened on the way to the Kremlin…
"As we will clearly demonstrate, the only wild conspiracy theories being pushed right now, are those coming out of the US State Department, and the government in Kiev, Ukraine, which are being repeated by CNN, BBC, FOX-NewsCorp, ABC, CBS and NBC…"
Good link. Thanks.
This is the same story from a few weeks ago just with a YouTube video. And still no definitive information.
I choose to believe....
There's nothing new in that video, just a recital of known tidbits.
And he didn't mention that the MH17 B777 fuselage section around the cockpit shows some very clear evidence of cannon bullet holes. The Ukie SU25 fighter planes are fitted with 30mm cannon. If MH17 was brought down by a BUK missile it appears this happened after it was attacked in mid air by SU25 cannon fire from the Ukie planes which presumably was intended to kill the cockpit crew.
Two SU25 fighter planes were seen by numerous ground eyewitnesses to be flying very close to MH17 before the incident. The BBC's video with several eyewitness reports was pulled by them for reasons unknown.
And let us not ignore that the black boxes were sent to Farnborough/UK and nothing has been heard since. The voice recordings could have been made public easily withn 24-48 hours. If this contains the sound of 30mm cannon bullets hitting the plane, how will that be covered up?
There is a gigantic criminal cover-up going on here involving Washington/Westminster/Ukie govt in Kiev/Others and, as always: MSM.
OCSE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) monitor Michael Bociurkiw mentions bullet holes in #MH17,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-mh17-michael-bociurkiw-ta...
One of the strangest things about this is how international safety protocol was totally ignored. Any airline pilot would tell you that this is utterly unique. Losing two planes in such a short space of time? The whole 777 fleet would normally be grounded globally, or at the very least for that airline even following the first 'loss'.
Remember the 50 Dreamliners being grounded?
Qantas grounded all of its Airbus A380s after an engine explosion in mid air in '08.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-history-of-grounded-planes-2013-1
You are right medium. The thing is, in the case of these 2 recent Malaysian Airline losses they actually know what happened. Courts in Malaysia just made rulings agzinst israeli war crimes and Rummy plus neo con friends for the Iraq invasion.
Sounds interesting if true. Are you able to link? Would love to know more about it.
(the Qantas explosion was '10, not '08, my bad)
Medium, just search for something like Malaysian court rules against Israel /Rumsfeld in war crimes case.
Two seperate cases, the first was a UN court, maybe the second as well.
We know the SOP. This is how they whip the wayward ones back into line. With stealthy mass murder.
will do, thanks cb.
We are not being told what is going on partly because the MSN won't go to find out. If they don't know they can't tell us.
August 6, 2014, Novorossia
AMERICAN JOURNALISTS REFUSED TO MEET WITH UKRAINIAN MILITARY WHO ASKED FOR ASYLUM IN RUSSIA
The journalists of major American Mass Media rejected the offer of Russia’s Ministries of Defence and Foreign Affairs to visit Rostov region (a region in the South-West of Russia bordering on Ukraine) and meet with Ukrainian military who asked for asylum in Russia. This was communicated by deputy director of the Department of Information and Press of Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs Maria Zakharova.
In the night of August 4, 438 Ukrainian military addressed the representatives of the Frontier Service of Russia’s FSB (Federal Security Service) asking to provide them with asylum. They were met in Rostov region and accomodated in the refugee camp. According to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs representative Maria Zakharova, the plane of the Ministry of Defence, heading there, could take around 30-40 journalists, RIA Novosti reports. In her opinion, understanding, how important it is for journalists, especially foreign journalists, to communicate with the representatives of Ukraine’s armed forces, Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs offered to invite a group of foreign correspondents to Rostov region. “Within one hour there were around 40 people…Except for Bloomberg agency, there was not a single journalist from American Mass Media”, - Zakharova wrote in her blog on the site “Ekho Moskvy”. According to her, American journalists didn’t go, alluding to “different technical reasons”. Among Mass Media, who, according to Zakharova, refused to go to Rostov region, are CNN, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Christian Science Monitor. Zakharova noted that a correspondent of Reuters agency put himself on the list, left for the airport but changed his mind halfway and didn’t go.
http://dnr-news.com/dnr/1847-amerikanskie-zhurnalisty-otkazalis-ot-vstrechi-s-ukrainskimi-voennymi-poprosivshimi-ubezhischa-v-rossii.html
Well obviously, when 438 Ukie military people cut and run to Russia, this is not part of the Western script and has to be ignored. No journalist (or his supervising editor) will get any browny points for showing what is really going on in East Ukie.
Wasn't Obama just saying that unlike Amerika, no crowds are rushing the border to get into Russia!?!
He lies again!
Presstitutes. Tyranny enablers. Every one of them.
This was yet another hoax. I know, downvote away....it's very hard to comprehend all these hoaxes but the bodies at the crash scenes look like dummies. Not one face was shown. Also, we see the remains of a few seats at best. Where are the other 275+ seats holding close to 300 people we're told. How about the the rest of the wreckage? 600,000lbs of material doesn't just evaporate. Oh wait, that's right, it does b/c we learned that from Shanksville and the Pentagon. PAAAALEEEASE! I don't have all the answers and don't claim to but something isn't right about this "crash."
The United States has long had the ability to capture communications among fighters and base, as we first learned from Korea 007. It is inconceivable that the United States was not listening to traffic over Ukraine. I wonder when they will release the transcripts? Probably the day after never.
We are governed by evil people, and no one is stopping them. Its scarey.
That's the surprising conclusion we are all dealing with Bob.
See ZH article "The difference between war and revolution."
Nails it.
Thanks, I'll dig it up and take a look.
PS: And why is the United States permitting its allies in the Ukraine to hide the stuff they grabbed from air traffic control? And why are not the "investigators" demanding to review it?
Not to be dumb but,
I am capable of doing a number of things that I would rather not do, mow the lawn and change the baby's diapers come to mind.
What would be the US motive to divert radio intercept equipment from other missions to instead monitor Ukraine, who many propose are US puppets anyway? Why would they need to monitor them?
The only thing I am certain of is that monitoring happens by using monitoring equipment, and that monitoring equipment - like everything else - is scarce.
To understand your thought I would need to understand why it is 'inconceivable' that the US would not be listening to traffic in Ukraine.
I had been given to believe that the Obama administration was focusing its listening on the US's own citizens.
They can't be monitoring everything, everywhere simultaneously. There aren't enough people to sort that many intercepts in North America - much less in the government. Hence to monitor more HERE they have to monitor less THERE. You can choose your favorite locations to replace 'HERE' and 'THERE'.
"What would be the US motive to divert radio intercept equipment from other missions to instead monitor Ukraine"
Why to terminate Vladimir Putin, of course.
After all he was in the skies near Ukraine at the very same time the plane was lost. And may very well have been on MH17 because of the threat to his own plane.
It's an honest mistake to kill 300 people when you are trying to kill your arch enemy, no?
Why has the West bothered to vilify him so much after Snowden defected if they don't want him dead?
They did in Diem. They did in Allende. Maybe they did in Chavez.
Maybe you believe the US doesn't do those kind of things any more? Maybe you think the US has found religion on its deathbed?
This can't be true because I just saw an anonymous person said their truck that was balling the missiles was stolen the day before. That's why it was a Ukraine truck. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mh17-breakthrough-owner-of-...
You would have to assume if someone stole a truck full of Buk missiles they would have at least called someone but I guess they didn't notice.
You really know they are stretching the truth when they use the vehicle was stolen line. sounds like the old story of the guy who's car was seen at a bank robbery and says it wasn't me my car was stolen the day before but this time the guy is even anonymous.
Victoria Nuland "knows" who and what brought down Flight MH17.
To tell you how accurate these spy satilittes cameras are, they if need be, can read the writing on a business card. A member of my family group who work on the engineering of these cameras. What the government is holding back may not be favorable to them, .... or they would release the true information, ....but then again, what is the truth?????
Obviously I am still not being told anything but the same old, same old. Better luck next time.
This guy has the goods on both planes. Good evidence. This shoot down was the missing plane.
http://www.jimstonefreelance.com
The two most likely scenarios current:
(1) Kiev coup forces deliberately shot down MH17
(2) E. Ukraine anti-coup forces mistakenly shot down MH17
Even if (1) is false, that does not make the Kiev coup and military repression just.
Even if (2) is true, that does not make the anti-coup resistance less just.
[of course, were (1) true, Kiev would deserve much condemnation]
Do not fall for the subtle media trap of judging the Ukraine situation
by what may turn out be an ultimately irrelevant conclusion (2) to the MH17 tragedy ..
Don't forget the other option:
(3) Kiev Forces mistakenly shot down MH17.
Stupidity, error, and failure to communicate know no nationaiity or politics.
3) Kiev Forces mistakenly shot down MH17.
Yeah. They thought it was Putin's plane.
Mariopol is about a one hour drive from Donetsk - about 60 miles between city centers. It is not 300 miles away.
The "300 mile diversion" depicted from flying over donetsk to flying over mariopol. The actual distance between the flight routes then, is about 10 miles, not 300 miles.
A 300 mile diversion to the west would put them flying over Moldova. A 300 mile diversion east would have put them flying over Volgograd.
The statement of a large diversion is an obvious error.
I don't want to knock the film because there are also facts there.
I am simply pointing out that to pursue truth you have to be critical of EVERYONE.
To be critical of some, and not of others is called "propaganda'.
Detailed expert analysis of the MH17 downing and where the BUK was fired from by CDN on vineyardsaker.blogspot.com
drive.google.com/file/ d/0ByibNV3SiUoobnpCV DduaHVORHM/edit?usp= sharing
mediafire.com/view/61qa 99yt6v3dq64/MH17Anal ysis_Parts_1_and_2.p df
After looking at BBC and Telegraph reports and using Russian supplied pics of BUK positions only 1 could have hit MH17 and cause the debris damage,
The position south of Shakhtars. This position offers an optimum firing solution as the aircraft will be approaching the launch position rather than moving away from it, thus avoiding pursuit mode. MH17 is clearly within the 35 km missile range.
At least we now know where thebullets/missile hit and the damage it caused if nothing else.
Check out hires pic of Cockpit central window frame, The seat we see undamaged seems to be the copilots seat. Seems not much is left of the pilot. But we can clearely see entry holes at the back of where the pilot sits. They are all in the same direction showing a single straffing run or missile hit at an angle to where the pilot sits so we can expect to not find a body or much left of him. Also no damage to the door. So if this was cannon fire we could be expected to find the starboard side sometime. If it was a buk then that part would be small pieces so harder to find.
Cannon fire will make circular or oval holes.
Shrapnel will make irregular, triangular, and rectangular holes.
Cannon fire would require the aircraft with the cannon to be fast enough to circle MH17.
Russian presentation shows no aircraft in the air fast enough to do that. An SU-27 could fly that fast. A MIG 29 could fly that fast. An SU-25 couldn't keep up with MH17 for long, much less circle it to make strafing runs.
Check out the German article I mentioned above with photos of the fuselage damage. It's clearly filled with large round holes. If not a SU25, then what? Or perhaps MH17 had reduced speed for some reason?
I suspect it wasn't cannon fire or a BUK missile, but both.
If you haven't read this already, it's worth a few minutes. Check out the photos of cockpit damage, especially the second one down. Only bullets could have made those large round holes.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie...
Looks to me like it was strafed with 30mm cannonfire by the two Ukie SU25 jets and then probably hit by a ground-to-air missile.
Who is SCG and why should we trust them?
"According to the State Department’s request, some 12 logistics and surveying experts arrived to the Ukrainian capital on Tuesday. The team“will assess, advise and provide recommendations to the US embassy and their staff about possible US support,”Defense Department said on their website.
They won’t actually be traveling to Ukraine’s east, but operate entirely from Kiev."
Anybody else think Obama sent US "experts" to Kiev to create a counterfeit tape of the conversation between the Kievan Air Traffic Controllers and the pilot of MH17?