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Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks? White House "Can't Confirm Russian Convoy Was Destroyed By Kiev"
While today's trading session was marked by news which at first blush correlated with what may be the 2014 equivalent of the Archduke Ferdinand shooting, in retrospect the newsflow made painfully little sense. Let's recap:
- Yesterday afternoon, two UK reporters working for the Guardian and Telegraph, supposedly located by the border in east Ukraine, reported that they were "eyewitnesses" as a convoy of military trucks crossed the Russian border into the breakaway Donetsk republic, aka Ukraine. While there have been photos of the military trucks that have accompanied the Russian humantiarian convoy on Russian territory, there has so far been no proof, aside from said eyewitness reports, confirming Russian military vehicles entered or were in Ukraine.
- This morning Ukraine military’s spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, shocked the world when newswires reported that Ukraine forces had attacked an armed convoy from Russia, and "destroyed" a part of it. This was subsequently reiterated by the president of Ukraine himself who said that "the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the majority of that machines had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night", and by the secretary-general of NATO, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who said that the alliance had detected an “incursion” of vehicles from Russia last night, adding that “what we have seen last night is the continuation of what we have seen for some time." Alas, as in the case above, just more verbal reports, with zero actual evidence.
- Shortly thereafter, Russia responded when the Russian defense ministry said that there was no Russian military column that crossed into Eastern Ukraine, and that the above reports are based on "some fantasies."
This is where the breakdown of logic occurs, because for Russia to make such a formal statement it clearly implies that Russia believes there is no evidence of destruction of a Russian convoy in Ukraine territory, something which obviously would exist if indeed as Ukraine's president had claimed, the "majority of the machines had been eliminated."
If true, it also implies that either Ukraine had fabricated the entire story, and certainly the part about the destruction of the convoy and by extension that Russians had ever entered into East Ukraine. Furthermore, that would also suggest that the reports of the British reporters were also a fabrication.
Unless, of course, there is evidence, in which case the credibility of the both the Guardian and Telegraph reporters can be preserved, Ukraine can not be accused of fabricating a story to suit what some may say its own warmongering ambitions, and the onus is on Russia to explain why it lied about there being no invasion.
More to the point, the onus is on Ukraine to present some evidence, in fact any evidence, of a destroyed Russian military convoy instead of merely building upon a story conceived by the two UK media outlets, because if Ukraine indeed has no evidence, then its story falls apart and what's worse, the credibility and reputation of its government, of NATO and certainly of the UK press would be in tatters.
So what other possibility is there? Well, one that is all too unpalatable for Ukraine, namely that in its excitement to blow something up, it may have well destroyed some of its own military vehicles. A possible lead to such a turn of events comes from this Interfax report citing the leadership of the breakaway Donetsk People's Republic.
The leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic has dismissed the Ukrainian government's statement on destroying a convoy of what appeared to be Russian armored vehicles in eastern Ukraine.
"We haven't received any armored vehicles from Russia. No Russian units, including Russian armored vehicles, have crossed the border. Hence, no Russian armored vehicles could have been destroyed," DPR First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Purgin told Interfax on Friday evening.
Purgin claimed that, on the contrary, the militias destroyed about 100 Ukrainian armored vehicles.
"A lot of Ukrainian armored vehicles were destroyed today, 7 at one place, 12 at another. And the same all over the DPR territory. A total of about 100 of them," Purgin said.
The implication is clear: while 100 or so Ukraine armored vehicles may or may not have been destroyed, one wonders if indeed the Ukraine army was responsible in "aiding" the separatists with what would appear to be a friendly-fire incident?
But perhaps the most damning evidence comes from none other than the White House itself, which according to CNN just admitted that while it accuses Moscow of "incursions" it can't confirm the convoy was destroyed by Kiev.
WH accuses Moscow of "repeated Russian & Russian-supported incursions" into #Ukraine tho says can't confirm convoy destroyed by Kiev
— Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) August 15, 2014
Perhaps for the simplest reason that there is no evidence to help with the confirmation process?
Which is rather unpleasant, because as explained above, without confirmation of a destroyed convoy, the whole story falls apart as merely yet another unprecedented warmongering fabrication, one involving not only the Kiev regime, but NATO and the UK press as well!
What is worse, is that if indeed the specter arises that Ukraine is lying about an event that nearly gave the market a heart attack on the belief that a new international war involving Russia may be about to break out, was Ukraine also lying about flight MH-17. And else may the Kiev regime been lying about?
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I'm going to downvote myself now for fun. But at least I have the decency to tell me why I downvoted me.
@ bunz3x
you're so blind --unless you're a good gubmint troll-- to choose to deliberately not seeing that the ZIO's controls of EVERY Center of Power that matters in the West (North Am+EU+AUS+NZ) are overwhelmingly squeezing and totally out of proportions... beyond any common sense and explanation!!
A total infestation (and it's deadlier than Ebola) runs amok that will kill its carriers eventually.
i am not telling you anything fella.
the bbc and the msm create a world view for folks a bubble of tavistock technique honed over the last 90 odd years.
nearly always having experts from cfr,brookings,chatham house united services institute all fucking rothschilds fronts all zionist what an odd world view.
15 mins ago a bbc report stated that cam moron called the russian ambassador to 10 downing street to warn him about britains position on sending armed units into ukraine.later in the news they mentioned the destruction of the russiam machines did not mention verification.
now the bbc have had 8-12 hours to get a straight story they did fuck all but vomit up the same story from the start.
the quickest lie gets the traction any complicated russian press conferances afterwards which rely on reality or facts are ignored
as for the caananites controlling the media if you believe that is bullshit anti semetism i cannot hep you.
Your cosmic voice is rocking the Pillars, Tony.
Your are being a bit hard on the BBC there Tony.
You have to take into account that they only have around 3500 journalists on the payroll.
This is not enough to get at the truth..........
The truth is out there for anyone willing to root around hard enough for it. Why does it automatically have to lie between only two false narratives. For fucks sake man, do you really believe that any major news outlet is not promoting a scipt that is handed to them each day?
Have you never asked yourself; why is every channel saying verbatim the same thing?
Hell, our reporters here are under the threat of jail if they break ranks, they will get charged with leaking classified information, everything has now been labeled "classified" so nothing but scripted "leaks" from a "unnamed source deep within The Whitehouse" DUH.
Get a fucking clue, you are being spoon fed bullshit and you keep smacking your lips and saying "MORE"
There still is a thing called the truth, there is still a right and wrong, light and dark, good and bad. Not everything lays in some foggy wasteland of half truth and "maybe".
The reality!!!!!!!!
Kiev destroyed its on deserting forces that where trying to escape / run from the neojew owned mercs.
Look at Cameron's wiki. They do not even try to hide it. His grandfather was German tribe who worked and works for the Red Shield and their job was financing wars. One of Cameron's klan's first wars was the 1905 Russian-Japan war. Cameron's wife are Danish tribe bankers.
We know who Milliband is and Clegg is probably the same. In the USA pushing war and Ukraine are all the NeoCon-AIPAC supporters who also do Goerge Soros bidding including all the Democrats, Obama and the RINO NEoCons.
1905.... Interesting times. Basically Japan was conquered ~ 1885, thats what the 'Meiji Restoration' was. New ownership! After that, Japan went from very inward looking, to becoming imperialistic, a slow build right up to WWII.
But this (fairly sucessful) war w/ Russia, and then the occupation of Manchuria later, were big factors in stoking the fires of Japanese nationalism/imperialism.
And when was Japan industrialized post-WWII??? During the Korean War! All the Jeeps were made in Japan for that one, and that was basically the start of the Japanese auto industry, post-war.
And when was Korea industrialized post-WWII??? During the Vietnam War! Very interesting how the 'new owners' built up the economies...
Even back then English voices were on the scene, whispering in Japanese ears, trying to contain the Russians.
the truth is the first casualty etc. etc.
Truth may be the first casualty, but the largest number of casualties has ALWAYS been innocent human beings.
In moderrn times, those who start wars never get involved in the fighting. Those who profit from wars never get involved in the fighting.
Wake the fuck up!
SHOW US THE TIME & GEO STAMPED PICTURES/VIDEO FOOTAGE OF THE REMAINS OF THE 'RUSSIAN CONVOY' OR RETRACT.
WHO OR WHAT DID YOU DUMBFUCKS BLOW UP -OR ARE YOU BLOWING SMOKE UP THE WHOLE WORLD'S ASS HOUNDING FOR A WAR NOBODY FUCKING WANTS?
best guess as to what happened:
Ukie artillery hit their own guys because:
1. they are idiots who can't properly identify a target
2. Resistance fed them false info and they failed to confirm (see #1)
3. Punative attack on units attempting to bug out to Russia.
I'm going with #3 for now. Here's why:
Ukie regs know they are cannon fodder and there have already been several friendly fire incidents. Now they'e expected to engage Russian Spetsnaz in Stalingrad II?
If I were commanding such a unit, given the odds of coming out alive, and knowing full well that the thugs in Kiev care nothing for our lives, I'd probably take my guys to Russia. They don't even need to know until we're right at the border, after which they can make their own decision.
On seeing this, some loyal Banderista ratted them out (one or two in each unit to keep an eye on things) and the ukie artillery opened fire as a punitive message to anyone else considering same. Artillery wouldn't know they were firing on their own guys. Imagine the mood when they find out.
Not that we'll ever hear the truth, so I reckon my version's as good as any other.
We'll eventually get pictures - just as soon as the Banderistas have time to put Russian plates on the destroyed vehicles. After all, the equipment's the same on both sides, so none's the wiser, right?
Terrific summation ebear.
Thanks.
After reading Tony's comment I realized I forgot one other possibility: that none of it even happened - that it's all a fabrication - pure propaganda from a desperate regime. There's plenty of destroyed armor lying about, so photos would prove nothing. There'd be some survivors though, so I guess we wait for them to turn up and see what they have to say.
these mi6 queers do not need to retract the bbc is still stating it as fact the original story still stands adding that the russian ambassador has been given a lecture by the jewish prime minister cam moron.
you can tell they are lying when their lips move,
it is definitive.
Sakar is basically reporting the Uke army has failed at all objectives, including
even managing to encircle Donetesk.The separatist have now set up an Army high
command, and might even go on the offensive.
No wonder Kiev is doing a Bagdad Bob impersonation.
According to Brad Cabana (a Canadian Vet!) he reckons there is a good chance that the militia has already gone on the offensive and has blocked off the Ukrainians in several areas (namely south of Donetsk and West of Lugansk).
I have found him to be a good source of information along with Vineyard of the Saker
https://twitter.com/BradCabana
Also:
Novorossiya Military Briefing, August 15, 2014
Translated by Gleb Bazov
Link above includes:
MAP: Hostilities in Novorossiya, August 6-15, 2014
Excerpts (much more at first link above):
Overall, it is becoming increasingly clear that the widely publicized offensive on Donetsk has, as expected, amounted to zilch. The Ukrainian Armed Forces does not have any more strength. It simply does not. And that is all. Moreover, the Junta forces are facing several simultaneous catastrophes on the local scale, which can become operational-tactical in nature and then strategic…
Whatever one’s attitude may be with respect to the latest resignations (Strelkov, Bolotov), but … it was after these resignations that the general staff of the Militia’s Armed Forces was created, such that it can now properly be called an army. This is so because central command was the one thing that the Militia lacked to function as such. The result of this coordination is already apparent. Moreover, by formally giving the leadership of the Republics a purely Ukrainian appearance, this transformation has provided the Army of the Southeast with the capacity to start solving tasks outside the borders of the Republics...
South of Lugansk
The Russian humanitarian convoy awoke the hostilities from hibernation also on this front. The goal of derailing the convoy has prompted the Junta’s leadership to organize an attack on Novosvetlovka-Khryashchevatoye. The goal here is to cut off the remaining open road that enabled the supply of the Lugansk garrison. The initial success (caused by the suddenness of the strike) has turned into a complete rout. As of this morning, the units of Battalion Aidar were crushed in the area of Khryashchevatoye...
Brad Cabana? The old mayor of Elstow, Saskatchewan? (Population around 100) He runs that interior decorating business in Newfoundland? That Brad Cabana?
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/01/10/16829961.html
That is him yes. If you don't like him, a lot of his tweets come with links to the original source articles and videos and posts a lot of information all day every day.
Genius repudiation.
You might consider spending a few minutes here:
Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement
You're so smart you can start at the second step from the bottom.
Indeed Winston. The last few days have been very tense as Kiev through huge forces into the battle to capture Donetsk. They nearly gained some major victories, came very close to victory. But, using the new troops freed up by the elimination of Kiev's Southern encircled army the last week, and by using their captured armored vehicles, the rebels pulled together a force of nearly 200 armored vechicles to counter attack the Ukie spearheads. In fierce fighting that was very desperate in nature, the rebels dod defeat most of the Ukie attacks and inflict terrible losses on Kiev. Since Kiev learned in the last 48 hours that their offensive had been smashed, they had to resort to some mad scheme to claim invasion and try and shame NATO into coming to their rescue.
When Kiev learns that their forces were badly beaten, the political pressure will mount on the coup government to either win the war, resign or get NATO to rescue the West Ukraine's failed military. My guess is "Bring in NATO" is their last best hope. So be prepared for more desperate fake false flag schemes to claim invasion. First their SU-25 gunned down the Air Liner, that didn't bring in NATO, Now the fake invasion, no NATO yet. Gid knows what the next false flag will be!
As for western media, the rebels should consider them all to be Kiev's spies and the CIA's intelligence and false flag teams.
Do you believe anything that you write?
You should provide links.
Credibility for Zerohedge wanes when you publish articles written like this.
Very early in the article the writer casts doubt over the credibility of international journalism, in favour of Russian comment that there was no military incursion.
A more objective view might be to accept that the FSB sent 23 APCs over the border, but in giving Russia the benefit of the doubt, to consider this as a "border management" issue; there is no evidence that the APCs were supporting pro-Russian separatists.
My thought is that Russia got caught with its hands in the cookie jar and that Putin isn't as clever as people give him credit for.
Zerohedge, I'm disappointed. You can do better than this.
Where are the Russian APC's?
There is no evidence. Only jawbone.
Western "Journalism" discredits itself all by itself. Observing and commenting on such self-destructive behavior does not constitute bias. Comparing the quality and track record of available sources rightly creates bias in favor of quality. I mean why not?
Thus far, there is no credible evidence that any Russian APCs actually crossed the border, let alone got destroyed.
ZH is right to cast aspersions on the accuracy of this news item. Here in australia, murdochs shitty MSM is selling the story, but their main competitor fairfax wont touch the story.
So im guessing fairfax considers there's not enough evidence yet to go making such dangerously escalatory claims
next false flag missiles hitting chemical factories or the south ukraine nuclear power station to be blamed on the rebels
I hope Kiev starts building methane generators, because with the amount of pure bullshit they're putting out, it's likely the only chance they have of staying warm this winter. Hate to say it, but Putin and the RF are the only ones looking like they have any semblance of sanity and Kiev is looking like a bunch of Big Brother contestants trying to save their asses from eviction on the world stage(disclaimer, I never have and never will watch a BB episode but I'm guessing there's a hooker in a hot tub somewhere in Ukraine's future leading to some jerk offs being walked to the door).
Speaking of gas — and Kiev insanity — this interview with a member of the self-defense forces…
A Summary of the Situation in the Embattled Novorossiya
(English TRANSCRIPT + VIDEO [04:51] with English subtitles)
…was just posted at Slavyangrad.org.
Excerpt (incidentally, at least the third source of the fracking — and "tourist safari" — info I've read):
Alexey Mozgovoy: The peaceful population is being eliminated using missiles. These actions make the civilian population leave their homes. So, generally speaking, Kiev does not need the population; it is irrelevant in the area where they plan to conduct fracking.
There’s already a drilling rig in Slavyansk and it’s starting its work. The equipment for building the rigs has already been delivered to a little settlement near Slavyansk. So what use is there for the population? It’s not needed there. The complete elimination of the population is being covered up by the so-called ATO…
What’s more: some “hot spot tourists’ have been allowed to shoot from a tank or use other type of artillery. So people come, pay money and they can shoot – it’s like a safari. What they shoot at – only God knows. So somebody makes money on these tourists shooting, destroying towns, killing peaceful people...
I wish the Eastern Self-defense forces can eliminate ALL the RATS in Kiev and other places... those RATS will just infest and infect the deadly Ebola to most Ukrainian people!
Every living thing is a methane generator.
Dead or Alive.
Nulands handpicked gov is a fucking mess
i agree
Nulands handpicked gov is a fucking mess
i tjink you nail it again a second time
If I were Berspankme, I'd have posted again, just to see if you'd bite!
Nuland has the blood of thousands on her fucking hands. The bitch should be on trial for war crimes, but I am sure her Israeli citizenship will protect her from any charges!
By the way, where is that filthy lying bitch anyways?
Dunno current whereabouts of Nuland, but here's a nice set of photos in which she appeared not so very long ago (my understanding is that the top photo is not photoshopped):
http://i0.wp.com/mycatbirdseat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/nuland-mccain-tyahnybok-small.jpg
Thanks for the photo link.
You know, McCain would look better with an icepick in each ear.
Tyahnybok is undoubtedly a Russophobic fascist prick but any photo can catch someone in an unusual pose, looking like a Nazi, Communist or whatever. And I thought the Hitler salute has to be right-handed.
The whole situation is becoming more and more of just a PR exercise. A battle of You Tube and Press releases.
Just more content for the sheeple to consume... Most haven't a clue...
If I can't see it on my "smartphone," it didn't happen.
"The whole situation is becoming more and more of just a PR exercise."
Yes, well, except for the 2000+ innocent civilians who have been murdered by yet another USA-supported Nazi terror regime rampaging in Europe, deliberately targeting and destroying homes, hospitals, electric power and water treatment plants with every weapon it can get its hands on, up to and including ballistic missiles.
Here's a few before and after photos of just two of its victims:
https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/q71/s720x720/10577016_1524617904428223_8685073459900371982_n.jpg
Wait did I pay for the tanks they blew up?
Unless you are paying a lot of tax, I'd guess you only paid for a few bits of one of them.
you probably paid for whatever they blew then up with too :)
It's all borrowed money. Taxes pay for none of it and never will.
Printing fiat is in effect a tax on existing script.
Printing fiat also subverts the Republic because funds can be allocated w/o the peoples consent. You didn't allocate money for those new MRAPs, but they magicly appeared anyways, down at the police station due to the power to print money.
Wonder how much Vodka those "UK reporters" were drinking and with what boobies they were playing with when the tanks rolled into that dusty backroad section of Ukraine?
Brits media boobies? If no childs around to abuse, likely each other.
Not journalism...every time it is the same, only worse
The Ukranians are literally fighting with each other by fist in their "parliament"...now these simpletons are pretending they attacked Putin??
What is the purpose of this? Do they actually believe Bahgdad Bob bullshit will not be misproven? I'm beginning to be on the 95% side they shot down the Malaysian Jet..
Is this who we support? Is this kind of action what the US supports.. Multiple times a rush to judgement pointing the finger at Putin..
This is desperate ... If Russian soldiers were killed he would have already been about to roll into Ukraine... Something seemed odd about the propaganda media on the ground with pictures saying they just rolled over the border..Now we know why.. It was a narrative build for this joke of an offensive trying to lure NATO or the US to come in..
Not happening the US is all bluster..how can we not only condone but back these false flags and not be looked upon as a joke..
Everytime this happens we expose our desperation to the world and Russia and make Putin well aware that he is under threat of assasination and making him begin to be more offensive in his thinking..
This is all about the dollar reserve currency...their whole theft of the peons and status quo is in danger.
Midis operandi is literally to induce Putin to attack so they must have thought simply lying and pretending they attacked a Russian convoy would cause a knee jerk reaction without confirmation..he is not that stupid but the cromags leading Kiev " advised by the CIA" obviously are..amateur hour.
"..Is this kind of action what the US supports."
Yes, it is.
Do the anti-Russian warmongers even understand what’s at stake? Just last month Russia announced that by 2016 she will have upgraded 60% of her entire missile systems to radar-evading ballistic missiles. And by 2021, to 98%.
Capabilities for suppression of anti-missile defense is a strategic priority, the Russian news agency, ITAR-TASS, has reported.
This means that the US defense in an attack is just becoming mcuh more difficult and that the Cold War is getting much hotter...
This may be one of the reasons, in addition to the petrodollar thing, for why the Empire is desperate to get it on with the Russkies now.
The Ukraine is just flattering Obama by imitating his lying.
Kumrads all lie
Kumrads all spy
Kumrads all die
The CIA and KGB are both tentacles of the same beastie
There are more communists in Washington D.C. than in all of Russia.
worse, bolsheviks.
master slave relationship hinges on
the prospect of initiative. same as it
ever was ////
The "Russia invaded Ukraine" story was picked up by every major news outlet today, despite having no pictures, no evidence, no video, nothing to back it up. It shows just how completely and utterly corrupted our corporate media is.
As for MH17, we know with a high level of certainty (99% according to the video below) that the Kiev regime shot it down. The fact that this story has vanished from the media tells you everything you need to know.
http://youtu.be/EpDKuN3cV_o
Fuck the corporate media.
404 on the link...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpDKuN3cV_o#t=626
ta mate!
link 404'd
Text is faster anyhow. ;-)
Two posts at New Straits Times, (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia), both dated 7 August:
MH17: Pockmarks look like from very, very heavy machine gun fire, says first OSCE monitor on-scene
US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft
Excerpt (from link directly above):
...He deduced that in order to have some of those holes fraying inwardly, and the others fraying outwardly, there had to have been a second fighter firing into the cockpit from the airliner’s starboard side. This is critical, as no surface-fired missile (or shrapnel) hitting the airliner could possibly punch holes into the cockpit from both sides of the plane.
“It had to have been a hail of bullets from both sides that brought the plane down. This is Haisenko’s main discovery...
Good luck with the ungeheueres Ungeziefer thing.
Die Verwandlung!
WTFP? Where's The Fucking Press
WTFIR? Where's the Fucking Independent Reporting
This situation, is exactly why no-one trusts .gov.
told ya... the whole thing is STRANGE.
LOL
said the Reptile
Is sotra Through the Looking Glass and into a very deep rabbit hole in which by now, nobody knows the truth.
The matrix is either going to implode -or- be stronger than ever... The end game is near... I'm voting on the former...
me as well, but it'll be close.
Hey Keiser, you're calling me out dude, yet enjoying the pat :-)
You make perfect sense to me Knuks. ;-)
ZH walked right into that one.
*yawn*
Another Sloppy False Flag. Putin must be laughing at their enemies' desperation. All the west needs to do is avoid one of the Biggest Classic Plunder, " don't get involve in a land war with an Asian Army"
The last two days have been very hot for the big Ukrainian offensive to retake Donetsk. The rebels are too small a group toform long defense lines, instead they use very mobile warfare to seek out Ukrainian armored vehicle columns of their advance units. These are set upon by rebel ambush teams specialized in tank and APC killing. The rebels send forces all over the Donbass to meet Ukrainian vectors of attack. At least two recent armored attacks by Kiev have gotten encircled by rebel forces and these are being killed off as I write.
It is entirely possible that Ukrainian artillery and rocket forces got information on an armored formation of which they were not familiar with. With this rapid mobile warfare and the generally low standards of military skill displayed by the Ukrainian artillery forces. It is very possible that the Ukies let off a major barrage onto one of their own armored columns.
The rebels will appear with the videos in a couple days if this indeed happened. One lesson the rebels have taken to heart is to always film your victories or Kiev will lie and deny any and all losses. Kiev looks like idiots when they deny battle losses which then end up as a 20 minute long video showing destroyed vechicles and dead bodies, the rebels even go so far as to film serial numbers on the vehicles, thus offering iron clad proof of whose vehicles were destroyed. Yesterday a section of Ukie Fascist battlions like "Asov" suffered a deadly loss in night battle, the proof appeared in the form of a few dozen Ukie Right Sector prisoners telling their tales. The rebels also borrow prisoners cell phones, call the prisoners family and allow said prisoner to talk with their family and tell them where they are and what happened. This allows real news to reach Ukrainian cites and villages as defeated soldiers call home and tell their sad tales, lies Kiev can not feed after this real evidence goes from mouth to mouth along the street.
... and you know this to be a fact because you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
Did Kiev's army conquer Donetsk? Did Kiev's forces surround Donetsk? Does the Kiev Southern Army exist any longer. Are rebels retreating? What has Kiev's entire army accomplished in the last week of it's mega offensive that promised to capture Donetsk street by street by Aug 24th. Why is Kiev calling up it's 3rd draft of new soldiers? Are the three pockets of Kiev's trapped soldiers doing well tonight? Luhansk Airport group, did their offensive to break out work, how far did they get before being smashed?
No answer? I rest my case.
I don't speak for Jack but I think what he is saying that the Ukrainian Army can bomb and shell the shit out of Donetsk and Lugansk civilians from afar but they are having a lot of trouble holding onto any strategic gains they make and end up losing a lot of infantry and armour when they try.
There'd be no need for military competence if the sole purpose of the operation is to drive the population out by deliberately targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure in order to (1) be rid of anti-junta voters, and (2) get the population out of the way so Hunter Biden and others can make their $millions fracking (MAP: oil and gas deposits).
Regarding (2), note:
There’s already a drilling rig in Slavyansk and it’s starting its work. The equipment for building the rigs has already been delivered to a little settlement near Slavyansk. So what use is there for the population? It’s not needed there. The complete elimination of the population is being covered up by the so-called ATO.
Related (Dutch newspaper, 14 August, machine translation):
EVEN HITLER did NOT FIRE THEIR CITIES"
"…the proof appeared in the form of a few dozen [Asov] Ukie Right Sector prisoners telling their tales…"
I'm not certain it was Asov, but I am certain it was a captured Ukrainian government militant who asserted, video-recorded during questioning, that the Ukie forces were burying alive their severely wounded, along with their dead, in mass graves in order to avoid (1) providing proper medical care, (2) paying benefits to the families, and (3) increasing resistance to the war in the west.
That was only the first report of which I'm aware of burying alive the severely wounded, but there have been numerous reports of hurriedly burying the dead in mass graves — for reasons of (2) and (3) above. And considering the considerable documentation that they use the most crazed of the Nazi squads in the rear to murder their own unwilling conscripts who attempt to retreat, burying alive the wounded doesn't seem so implausible.
"And considering the considerable documentation that they use the most crazed of the Nazi squads in the rear to murder their own unwilling conscripts who attempt to retreat..."
or bug out to Russia.
Sad but true. The USSR did that in WWII, set up a machine gun BEHIND their lines.
No falling back. But seriously, the guy who is expected to man that machine gun must be a sick, sick bastard.
Nah, he's just happy he's not at the front getting slaughtered.
THey were called Punishment Battalions. You were there because you broke some rule that would otherwise mean the firing squad. Likewise, Russian POW's that were liberated generally ended up in the Gulag as being captured (as opposed to fighting to the death) was considered unpatriotic and a betrayal of your country.
The people of America (Ferguson in particular) need the rebel's APC killing expertise.
Ferguson police chief has a future indeed, in Kiev.
Yeah, but ToNY, it looks to me like Kiev will be changing hands soon.
…the secretary-general of NATO, Anders Fogh Rasmussen…said that the alliance had detected an “incursion” of vehicles from Russia last night, adding that “what we have seen last night is the continuation of what we have seen for some time."
One wonders where Rasmussen gets his information. Here’s an interesting quotation.
“Washington has begun the run up to the Third World War, and Europeans seem to be on board. As recently as November 2012 NATO Secretary General Rasmussen said that NATO does not regard Russia as an enemy. Now that the White House Fool and his European vassals have convinced Russia that the West is an enemy, Rasmussen declared that 'we must adapt to the fact that Russia now considers us its adversary' by beefing up Ukraine’s military along with those of Eastern and Central Europe.” – Paul Craig Roberts, Washington Is Beating the War Drum, June 17, 2014
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/06/17/washington-beating-war-drums-paul-craig-roberts/
General Rasmussen, That guy is an absolute whore and a total puppet. He gets a script from the US pentagon and then goes out and reads it. Total fuckhead who never saw a bullet fired in anger. Another Brussels and NATO slave to Washington DC. Usless prick that he is.
That he is. Thank God Rasmussen is on his way out in 7 weeks.
Does anyone know what Stoltenberg is like?
Presumably he's a patsy and got the job because he'll toe the Washington line. Is there any feeling that he'll have more spine than 'Fogh of War'?
Anyone have any views on Jens?
He'd only get the job if they thought he was totally safe - although they might make a mistake. I always assume the NATO head is a secret homosexual or something so they can blackmail him.
The Mouse that Roared TRailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7L7WLFBYR4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphm_xVeRiY
The mouse that roared (1) - Venetian subtitles
.
etc ...
Kiev's record of lies is impressive. Sort of like Hitler in his bunker as the Red Army swarmed all over Berlin, while the Nazi's sent out press releases of great victories and plans to drive on Moscow. Kiev must make Brussels proud, proud of their new member and it's democracy, economy and peaceful tranquility.
Looks like Brennan needs another trip to Ukraine to re-iterate the script.
"commencing micromanagement"
Ukrainians are some kind of STUPID! Let Russia have it. NATO is Fucked Up enough. Why make them part of NATO? Oh yeah, I forgot, OIL/GAS!!!!
Shaun Walker, that UK Guardian reporter now says it was one APC 10 km from the border. Now which is it Shaun of Israel? The Guardians standards must be slipping.............or just hard to find good help.
There is a Russian town of Donetesk as well.
Must be translation problem because he is......... English.
roland olifuny and shaun walker are these jewish chaps on twitter or facebook i think they need to be asked some questions about soros rothschild and chatham house failed zionist scripts
Whoopee Tyler, here's what I posted in another thread 4-6 hours ago:
This is a very real possibility.
Every minute that goes by, it becomes more and more evident that what's happening in East Ukraine has far more to do with the embargo of food imports into Russia than the incursion and repulsion we've read about in the last day.
Do you think Putin has seen the classic 1950 film "All About Eve"?
Eve as we all know is a world class liar. Not unlike Victoria Nuland, Anders Rasmussen, John Kerry, Catherine Ashton and all the other rat turds that turn the wheels of the EU.
In one of the most famous scenes of the movie, she tells a lie to her benefactor , Addison Dewitt.
He says to her: "Look closely, Eve. It's time you did. I am Addison DeWitt. I am nobody's fool, least of all yours."
Putin should say that to Anders Rasmussen as he plugs a Louisville Slugger up the Dane's rectum.
"I am Vladimir Putin. I am nobody's fool, least of all yours.
The past doesn't equal the future. Postulate that {theorem}
No, the past doesn't equal the future.
Yet this will always be true
Margo Channing: You bought the new girdles a size smaller, I can feel it.
Birdie: Something maybe grew a size larger.
Margo Channing: When we get home you're going to get into one of those girdles and act for two and a half hours.
Birdie: I couldn't get into the girdle in two and a half hours.
I knew it! It's not confirmed until ZeroHedge posts pictures of the convoy wreckage. ;-)
A small Ukrainian paratrupers' convoy was really destroyed.
Maybe, they talk about it.
What's left: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oidlySgqW1A
this carnage has "blackwater" written all over it. hey barry! after reggie is spent, check it out.
Perhaps! Last night a number of Ukrainian armored forces where heavily defeated. It may be that paniced Ukie soldiers gave wrong coordinates to their artillery and the fire came down on their own convoy? All this is possible.
The two western reporters who saw the Russian army convoy cross the border did not take ONE PICTURE, NOT ONE VIDEO. They stood and watched and used not even a cell phone camera to snap ONE PICTURE. Now they expect to be believed? What reported sees a possible world war event break out and snaps not one picture of it! So how does Washington explain this? Big convoy, two witnesses and ZERO pictures.
I believe those same reporters earlier that day were travelling with the white trucks humanitarian convoy and were tweeting pictures of it that day, pics of the drivers during rest stops, pictures of the cargo etc. So to your point, it wasn't like they didn't have the means to take a picture, it is what they were doing all day that day.
"It may be that paniced Ukie soldiers gave wrong coordinates to their artillery and the fire came down on their own convoy?"
You are entirely too generous, Jack. I'm sticking with a punative attack on units attempting to bug out. Doesn't look good if an entire column of theirs turns up in Russia the next day, especially if they're treated well, which by all accounts they are.
That would also account for the (alleged) presence of Polish pilots. Looks really bad if a Ukie airman bugs out to Russia with a Mig. Might start a trend.
The end game is clear. Weaken Russia. Side effect is FUCK THE EU.
How do you Fuck the EU?
Cut off their GAS.
How do you FUCK Russia?
Cut off Transport of their GAS?
USSA will just sit back while EU freezes and Russia is stuck with GAS but short on food.
These are the games.
You can't fuck Russia, ask Napoleon or Hitler.
So why is EU so stupid as to play against Russia? Does the Fed have them blackmailed ... e.g. cut of swaps, or reveal the fraud of their big banks and central banks?
you know, that's an intriigin' ?
GW - NSA blackmail pictures. Why do you think so many have to attend child sacrifices? Makes really incriminating footage indeed.
you know, that's an intriigin' ?
I just read where China signed a food export trade agreement with Russia. Vegetables and something else, can't remember (grain, pork?). Anyway, looks like Russia and China are still a step ahead of the U.S.
Also, many other countries besides China (particularly in Latin America), and much more good going on here than rearranging some food exports:
The birth of a new financial-economic system: the example of Russia and Argentina
The Vineyard of the Saker
12 August
Thanks to the lightning fast work of the Russian Team (thanks guys!!!) I can share with you a report from the Russian TV channel Rossia 1 [VIDEO - 07:48 with English subtitles] which I find absolutely fascinating. It shows how Russia and Argentina have been literally pushed by the USA into working with each other and the kind of results this collaboration is achieving. Though this report focuses on Argentina, I am sure that the same phenomenon is taking place elsewhere, especially amongst the BRICS countries...
The bottom line is this: very few nations are still attracted to the AngloZionist imperial model, and very few are still frightened by it. The result is the kind of collaboration (never shown on the MSM, of course) which you can see in this report. Enjoy!
Also, fourth of nine excellent points from:
You wanna be Uncle Sam's bitch? Pay the price!
Fourth, Russia used these sanctions to do something vital for the Russian economy…Russia is using this total embargo to provide a crucially needed time for the Russian agriculture to invest and take up a much bigger share on the Russian market. Also, keep in mind that Russian products are GMO-free, and that they have much less preservatives, antibiotics, colors, taste enhancers, or pesticides. And since they are local, they don't need to be brought in by using the kind of refrigeration/ preservation techniques which typically make products taste like cardboard. In other words, Russian agricultural products taste much better, but that is not enough to compete. This embargo now gives them a powerful boost to invest, develop and conquer market shares.
Related:
Ukraine - the Bee War
"Cut off Transport of their GAS?. USSA will just sit back while EU freezes and Russia is stuck with GAS but short on food."
I don't know how many of 196 countries export food, but subtracting EU (28), USA, Norway, Canada, and Australia leaves potentially 164 countries to pick up the slack — and it might also be interesting to see how many more 100% organic acres of rich black soil that's been lying fallow for years (i.e. has not been destroyed by massive amounts of chemical fertilizers and GMO pesticides) Russia plants next spring compared to this past spring.
NordStream (bypassing Ukraine) carries a considerable amount of gas to Europe, and though I've not verified it elsewhere, I read recently that it's only running at 1/2 capacity.
Cutting off Russian gas will be another entertaining "shoot yourself in the foot" move as it will likely instantly eliminate EU resistance to SouthStream (also bypasses Ukraine).
guardian et al not reliable. at best duped. worst, complicit in fabrication.
Guardian, BBC, and other UK MSM
are apparently all too willing to be propaganda agents for the government
the disinformation media of the UK
http://www.globalresearch.ca/media-disinformation-russian-tanks-in-ukrai...
Today's BBC newsroom looks like a space station in high earth orbit, and just as remote from the truth. The Bullshite Broadcasting Conspiracy. All flash and pompous banality. I can't watch 5 minutes of it without feeling sick to my stomach.
Kiev is desperate, at last count they have killed over 800 of their own civilians, shot down a plane load of foreigners, the people of Ukraine will not stand for much more of this. I predict firing squads Ceausescu style.
"I predict firing squads Ceausescu style."
Trouble with that is the ones doing the shooting will only be doing it to cover their sorry asses and hide their complicity.
But hey, you take what you can get.
Obama will have to explain that he just learned it from the controlled US Media Newz.
Obama will be logged on looking for the you tube video as evidence.
The best plan for days like these is beer and weed.
Seems that the Kiev Regime can't get a false flag operation off the ground!
Or much else, it appears:
Hot off the press from Colonal Cassad:
Rout of fascists under Stepanovka [19 large photos; 4 videos]
A video of the rout of the junta military under Stepanovka appeared.
Images of the crushing defeat of the junta are a joy to behold…
I point your attention to the amount of the destroyed materiel of the junta over the recent weeks, dozens are destroyed and nobody even counts it much. Taking the materiel losses into account, it is absolutely obvious that the losses in personnel are in the hundreds and thousands.
[Some wag — perhaps here on ZH, I don't recall — recently suggested that "Chocolate King" Poroshenko should consider investing in metals recycling next.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Routed convoy of Lvov paratroopers [1 photo; 1 video]
So I look at all this and remember Odessa and the herd of wackos, which were yelling about the "roasted kolorads". What is shown above are the consequences. Terrible consequences. And this is just a small part of those who perished without leaving a trace in the South Cauldron, having burned in a tank or an IFV, sliced by the fire from "Grads" and which now lie there, some in brotherly graves, some simply dug-in at the roadside.
A terrible price of "Euromaidan", which will have to be paid over a long time yet.
You guys are trying too hard.
Time will tell. With all the satellites, drones, etc. I expect the Guardian and the Telegraph are telling the truth. After all, we all believe Edward Snowden is real.
The fact of the matter is Putin probably gave the go ahead for a black ops that got shot up badly. He is not going to admit it to the global media because that will cause a big domestic problem for him.
NATO doesn't want this to escalate into something unmanageable. Hence, the nose tweek to the Russians.
Much admiration to those Ukrainian artillery crews. Good shooting!
With all the satellites (data controlled by governments), drones (controlled by governments), media (controlled by governments).............
Governments controlled by banksters.....................
I just want to get on with living MY life without all this fucking insane bullshit.
The psychopaths running the US are pissed off with the psychopaths running - insert name of fiction called country here - so they are going to kill a few million ordinary folks and say it's for the good of a few tens of millions of folks, so it's OK.
Fuck me backwards with a barge pole, what a world we live in.
End of Friday night rant (I think)
Let's face facts. You have no life. If the whole state isn't focused on providing for your needs, you have a bad day.
Stephen Harper,
pretending to be a Canucklehead cannot hide who you are
Stephen Harper finds a soul mate:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/03/22/stephen_harper_has_harsh_w...
How did Canadians manage to trip over that dose of vomit?
Can I use that one?
Yes Ukie artilleri crews and aviation were excellent at shooting down MH17 flight too
"After all, we all believe Edward Snowden is real"
He can be real and still screw up, i.e. talk to the wrong reporter.
I've made mistakes in the past (*) and I'm real. How about you?
(*) initially I supported the Maidan uprising and was fairly (for me) vocal about it on ZH. As I became better informed (not just ZH - I NEVER rely on a single source) I changed my view.
Agreed.
I supported the Maidan protests in 2013. Seemed like a general and genuine outpouring of frustration by a populace disgusted by the corruption of their Leader - Yanukovych.
No doubt there is an element of truth in that narrative (carried heroically forward by tens of thousands of "useful Ukrainian idiots")
The turning point for me being the shitstorm that was kicked up in the Western media & establishment when Yanukovych spurned the EU and turned to Russia (because Russia gave him a better offer!)
Doesn't he have that right to make that choice. I had assumed he was elected President to lead and make decisions? Apparently he was also under that misapprehension about what being an elected President means!! Ie - he was merely supposed to be a puppet apparently!!
The definitive proof of what was going on being of course Nuland's infamous conversation with Pyatt!! Oh, and yeah, "Fuck the EU!"
Anyone who has heard that phone call and still supports "our man Yats" and Kiev is either an ignoramus of the highest order or a paid shill!
Yeah, Snowdon is real and so is Stuart Brand.
Has anyone noticed that the MSM now sends interns with iPhones instead of professional journalists.
What's a journalist?