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Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks? White House "Can't Confirm Russian Convoy Was Destroyed By Kiev"
While today's trading session was marked by news which at first blush correlated with what may be the 2014 equivalent of the Archduke Ferdinand shooting, in retrospect the newsflow made painfully little sense. Let's recap:
- Yesterday afternoon, two UK reporters working for the Guardian and Telegraph, supposedly located by the border in east Ukraine, reported that they were "eyewitnesses" as a convoy of military trucks crossed the Russian border into the breakaway Donetsk republic, aka Ukraine. While there have been photos of the military trucks that have accompanied the Russian humantiarian convoy on Russian territory, there has so far been no proof, aside from said eyewitness reports, confirming Russian military vehicles entered or were in Ukraine.
- This morning Ukraine military’s spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, shocked the world when newswires reported that Ukraine forces had attacked an armed convoy from Russia, and "destroyed" a part of it. This was subsequently reiterated by the president of Ukraine himself who said that "the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the majority of that machines had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night", and by the secretary-general of NATO, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who said that the alliance had detected an “incursion” of vehicles from Russia last night, adding that “what we have seen last night is the continuation of what we have seen for some time." Alas, as in the case above, just more verbal reports, with zero actual evidence.
- Shortly thereafter, Russia responded when the Russian defense ministry said that there was no Russian military column that crossed into Eastern Ukraine, and that the above reports are based on "some fantasies."
This is where the breakdown of logic occurs, because for Russia to make such a formal statement it clearly implies that Russia believes there is no evidence of destruction of a Russian convoy in Ukraine territory, something which obviously would exist if indeed as Ukraine's president had claimed, the "majority of the machines had been eliminated."
If true, it also implies that either Ukraine had fabricated the entire story, and certainly the part about the destruction of the convoy and by extension that Russians had ever entered into East Ukraine. Furthermore, that would also suggest that the reports of the British reporters were also a fabrication.
Unless, of course, there is evidence, in which case the credibility of the both the Guardian and Telegraph reporters can be preserved, Ukraine can not be accused of fabricating a story to suit what some may say its own warmongering ambitions, and the onus is on Russia to explain why it lied about there being no invasion.
More to the point, the onus is on Ukraine to present some evidence, in fact any evidence, of a destroyed Russian military convoy instead of merely building upon a story conceived by the two UK media outlets, because if Ukraine indeed has no evidence, then its story falls apart and what's worse, the credibility and reputation of its government, of NATO and certainly of the UK press would be in tatters.
So what other possibility is there? Well, one that is all too unpalatable for Ukraine, namely that in its excitement to blow something up, it may have well destroyed some of its own military vehicles. A possible lead to such a turn of events comes from this Interfax report citing the leadership of the breakaway Donetsk People's Republic.
The leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic has dismissed the Ukrainian government's statement on destroying a convoy of what appeared to be Russian armored vehicles in eastern Ukraine.
"We haven't received any armored vehicles from Russia. No Russian units, including Russian armored vehicles, have crossed the border. Hence, no Russian armored vehicles could have been destroyed," DPR First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Purgin told Interfax on Friday evening.
Purgin claimed that, on the contrary, the militias destroyed about 100 Ukrainian armored vehicles.
"A lot of Ukrainian armored vehicles were destroyed today, 7 at one place, 12 at another. And the same all over the DPR territory. A total of about 100 of them," Purgin said.
The implication is clear: while 100 or so Ukraine armored vehicles may or may not have been destroyed, one wonders if indeed the Ukraine army was responsible in "aiding" the separatists with what would appear to be a friendly-fire incident?
But perhaps the most damning evidence comes from none other than the White House itself, which according to CNN just admitted that while it accuses Moscow of "incursions" it can't confirm the convoy was destroyed by Kiev.
WH accuses Moscow of "repeated Russian & Russian-supported incursions" into #Ukraine tho says can't confirm convoy destroyed by Kiev
— Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) August 15, 2014
Perhaps for the simplest reason that there is no evidence to help with the confirmation process?
Which is rather unpleasant, because as explained above, without confirmation of a destroyed convoy, the whole story falls apart as merely yet another unprecedented warmongering fabrication, one involving not only the Kiev regime, but NATO and the UK press as well!
What is worse, is that if indeed the specter arises that Ukraine is lying about an event that nearly gave the market a heart attack on the belief that a new international war involving Russia may be about to break out, was Ukraine also lying about flight MH-17. And else may the Kiev regime been lying about?
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Someone who likes journals?
A journalist today is someone who has an internet connection and can copy and paste.
Fat, sleek headed men such as sleep anights, ie, "jour-nalists".
a presstitute
Don't iPhones have cameras?
Plausable dumbassability. And young snatch. Politics as usual.
Check out the BBC's in-country reporters. Complete amateur hour.
Russian tanks crossing into Ukraine is huge, and would have had much greater response than just artillery fire aimed at them. That supposed incursion was many hours ago. Where was Ukie Air Force? How were two Brit reporters right at the point on the border where Russian tanks came across. Did Vald tip them off, or where they just wandering and got lucky? Ask why there are no pix of the Ruskie vehicles in motion from the Brits and why no sat pix, or drone pix, provided by the WH, which would have been very anxious and happy to show an armed invasion, so Nato could launch false-flag #93 and get it on. Why would Obummer not be at the teleprompter drawing red lines? Why no pix now of destroyed tanks? Why no nationally televised Ukie press conferences demanding this and that? Why no United Nations emergency meetings and responses to Ruskie armed aggression? Why no casualty stories - the tanks weren't driving themselves, right? This whole invasion story sounds sucky.
I like how the reporters said the tanks had russian licence plates.
Either you must have to go to special super secret spetnaz school to get the class on taking you Russian registration plates off if you are being sneaky OR the whole thing is a crock of Ukie shit.
Well, all tanks look the same if you take their license plates of, so of course you have to leave them on when invading so you can identify a tank and report it to the proper authorities if it should damage a fence or something.
It's a bitch when your tank is held up a couple hours by the DMV waiting to get your license renewed.
How the hell did a convoy of 23 APCs and soft sided trucks morph into tanks for Christ sake?
Its bad enough that they went through a wire fence that may well not have been the actual border, which was a Russian invasion.
ZH is not a place for 'Chinese' whispers. Why can't people at least check some facts before they post on here?
Quiz.
Conspiracy or cock-up?
(Veterans disqualified from answering.)
Them Ukie gunners must be damn quick, damn accurate and have damn good eyesight to hit multiple moving targets... with artillery... at night.
You are all crazy!
It was TWEETED therefore it was TRUE!
/sarc.
Seriously, i could tweet i saw Elvis in Donbass and it would make CNN as solid facts.
"It was TWEETED [before it actually happened] therefore it was TRUE!"
10/10 for consistency (think MH17 conversation on YouTube).
The Bullshit lies have piled up so fast you need wings to stay above it.
That's old school. These days you need a Saturn V rocket.
"Ukraine indeed has no evidence, then its story falls apart and what's worse, the credibility and reputation of its government, of NATO and certainly of the UK press would be in tatters."
Er... so what else is new?
I challenge everyone on this website to take simply a minute of out their day and contact those "journalists" shawn walker and ronald oliphant to either display some evidence or be called out as liars, our lives are literally at stake stopping this campaign for war. It is hard to believe the same journalists who were taking photos of the russian convoy doing all sort of shit all day long didnt bother to take a photo or video with gps embedded meta data to back up such serious allegation. People like them are where the saying loose lips sink ship come from, but this time it will be loose lips create glass parking lots.
Today i had to call out some punk, calling russia nazis yet when i showed them ukraines SVOBODA party logo and how it resembled the panzer division of the third reich and now changed to a a nazi specific german three hand logo. they immediately shut the hell up and ran for the hills.
+1. there are also pics of ww2 nazi rallies in kiev and modern rallies in the exact same streets using the same banners & emblems. [except without the alternating swasticas]
kiev always embraced fascism. And still does.
propaganda machine in overdrive now... as many have previously posted. Price changes on the markets must have made a few $ for those spewing it.....
Its all true, 2 independent reporters, one from the Guardian and one from the Telegraph both saw it, unfortunately both of the silly poppets forgot to take their cameras with them while out reporting that night, so no photos, they decided that rather than photos which are boring and factual they would rely on their imaginations which are grand and without restrictions, they probably saw a 4 wheel drive towing a caravan.
Markets panicked based upon a couple of twitter tweets and the irresponsible Neo-Nazis in charge of the Ukraine who could not even run a brothel let alone a country thought here is a great chance to fool the idiot west with some more lies, we got away with shooting the passenger aircraft down, the idiot western media will believe anything.
Watch now for western media to quickly move on rather than admit just how gullible that they are, all it takes for a story now days is a couple of twitter feeds and if you really want proof a couple of faked youtube videos, after all that is where the US administration gets all its intelligence from, and to hell with all those billions of dollars of satellites, only nerds take any notice of those, congressmen know you can believe everything you see on twitter and youtube, just ask Kerry and Obama.
Yea once again the Western media is completely sucked in by Ukrainian propaganda (or complicit) They were probably shown a Ukrainian convoy and not knowing where they were (too dumb to work a satnav) accepted the ukrainian story that they were Russian.
Can you imagine Russia sending in a small convoy? for what purpose? to give the western media something to hit them with? If Russia ever does respond militarily to the endless provocations from the USA and its puppets, the last people who will know about it are the Telegraph and the Guardian dickheads posing as journalists.
False Flag Fuckup.
BTW guys and girls, on the Guardians comments section there is a user called DELewes who has a 'recommend' (like) hack. Hes anti Russian of course. 10 days ago he got max 3 recomends per comment with a couple of supporting comments. This week up to 40 recommends on some comments in a minute or two (careless) with a couple of supporting comments.
I cut and copied this to the Guardian page too
I follow the Guardian comments section as well and I'm aware of that individual's Russophobic posts and the sudden nearly instantanous surge in his posts' recommendations. Someone in Langley must be getting desperate.
1.7k comments in the last 30 days...
Busy little troll.
It all goes back to Russia's punking of the petrodollar.
The U.S. will stop at NOTHING to implicate Russia in something that is horrendous and that deserves full-blown economic war measures against those 'dirty Slavs'.
Expect the ever-more outrageous, dishonest and despicable on the part of the U.S., and as that keeps unfolding, expect the pussy-euros to increasingly get a clue and begin siding with Russia - especially Germany.
which makes me think why isnt russia acknowledging the west is willing to do anything including create false flags, which will put any action under a microscope. If you want to prevent a trick from being used you have to call it before it happens and say see i told you so.
I look at it as analogous to Russia (and China) opting out of playing the aircraft carrier game at $15 billion a pop, and instead developing highly-advanced hypersonic missiles at $1 million or so each to take them out, in swarms if necessary.
It knows it can't (yet) win against western media lies and craziness, so it simply doesn't engage there.
Consider the food import ban: contrast the arrogance, the puerile ranting and screeching, the empty threats and silly sanctions from the west with Russia's response: after repeatedly and politely warning of a boomerang, simply and suddenly, without threats or specific warning, acting in such a way that these a**hole governments were hit over their heads as if with a ton of bricks, from a direction they never imagined.
Compare the food import ban to "shutting off the gas," which is what the USA wanted and expected. The food import ban is genius on so many levels: a major win-win not just for Russian food security and Russian agriculture, but immediate income boosts for friendly countries (particularly in Latin America) which will create improved relationships and trading in many other areas. Even the timing was nearly perfect, at harvest season and with even shipping costs in many cases in addition to all the other costs already incurred (and I'm not gloating at the losses to ordinary people, just at their cowardly governments for acting as the USAs bitch far longer than would return any real benefit to them, considering that about all the USA provides in return is arrogance followed by threats followed by chaos and death).
"The U.S. will stop at NOTHING..."
#include<colour/revolution.h>
St. Petersburg will be holding elections on September 14, following the resignation of the existing governor Poltavchenko. The propaganda machine is already in motion with certain commentators calling the upcoming elections a farce... thus the stage is set for an orange revolution instigated by the West, say insiders like Evgeny Federov.
It's time for Mr. Merkel to take off her dress and starting nailing some balls to the wall. She is is only one that can demand evidence on MH17, and if Russia did not do it, she is the only one who can put an end to the sanctions that are hurting her own country. Russia is much more important to Germany than the US is. Stand up and be a leader Mr. Merkel!
The NSA must have some pretty juicy photos of Frau Merkel in action, perhaps with Little Wayne or Hillary Clinton, or maybe with both at the same time.
Exactly! My speculation too.
who wants to bet one of the following will occur in the future as a possible false flag
1) russian or seperatist rockets fired into kiev
2) russian or seperatist rockets fired into a nato ally territory
3) russian rockets fired into US warship or us embassy
4) assasination of some low level ukrainian minister and blamed on russia or the seperatists
5) separtists going on a killing spree commiting war crimes(no photo evidence of course just a journalists eye witness testimony)
Reminds me of this story.
Ghost Army The Inflatable Tanks That Fooled Hitler - Atlantic Mobile
http://m.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/05/ghost-army-the-infla...
Oops, there goes the reputation of The Guardian and The Telegraph unless they start producing some real evidence.
It is a pity because I like The Guardian and The Telegraph but if you don't have GPS info and videos you should keep your mouth shut when what you are saying could escalate a tense situation into a global conflict, difficult to think of a more irresponsible action just for a little publicity.
So I wait patiently for the proof to back up what looks like unfounded accusations, don't keep me waiting, it only took minutes for you to swallow the Russian invasion story.
We already know the fabrication(s) galore of the Western backed junta and the media that steam rollled behind it five months ago along with the revelations surrounding the downing of flight MH-17... So why should the lies even matter?!!!
One thing we know for certain is that more than a half million ethnic Russian and Ukrainian refugees have fled to Russia in the last 4 months alone and more than 2,000 dead and 5,000 wounded and trapped with 70 of them killed just within the last 48 hours with everything using RPGs to white phosphorous.
Don't think "choco-jew" is that stupid. For if the attack took place I wouldn't want to be the Kiev forces and the "blue helmet"/Academi contingent supporting their efforts right about now. We would have heard that other "shoe dropping" at the end of today!
Tylers, you're still missing a critical part of the story. There was a proven case of propaganda b.s. earlier in the week concerning a claim about a DIFFERENT Russian military incursion that a high level Ukrainian official declared was bogus. It sure looks like a propaganda narrative was let out of the bag by mistake by at least one faction within the Kiev government, only to see the events of the last 24 hours concerning yet another claimed Russian military incursion hit the media. See my article below. Feel free to reprint it. -- Eric Dubin, Managing Editor, The News Doctors
---------------
"More Lies From Western-Backed Ukraine? Curious Case Of Military Convoy Story EARLIER This Week"
TND Exclusive: Eric Dubin
http://thenewsdoctors.com/?p=197295
BS Alert! Why would Russia go into the Ukraine with such a small amount of very vulnerable vehicles in the first place? Doesn't make any sense at all? And why should any journalist see this, especially at night?
The presstitute witnesses claim the Russians left their lights on, that's how. Which for me, was a huge red flag as to the authenticity of the story. You don't secretly invade with your lights on. Geez. ZH should have picked that up before running Kiev's lie about Russia invading.
Just goes to show, "governments aren't worth listening to." BTFD
Ukraine is none of our business.
Ferguson is the fulcrum.
Are you kidding? Halliburton wants the rights to that Gazprom pipeline. Oops! You are right. None of our business. Only Darth Cheney's business. Give Cheney a lightsaber and let him lead the charge. Send baby Bush as his trusted sidekick. Hell, send Obumbo the Clown with his teleprompter as well. That sould scare them plenty.
WHO OWNS HALLIBURTON STAWKS!!!
dumbass
In this day and age every man and his dog have a camera phone with internet and email or sms-.
You would think there would be multiple images evidence of everything. Tanks APCs MH 17 falling from the sky ..... aftermath of a fight..
When that doesn't appear you have to question assertions.
'
It looks like "the whole story falls apart as merely yet another unprecedented warmongering fabrication."
It is news stories like this one that make me appreciate Zero Hedge articles, and the comments upon them! It is horrible to contemplate what it would be like if I had nothing but the mass media to present their propaganda as if it were "news." It is scary to imagine how many people are still watching those mass media, and being brainwashed to believe in bullshit. Meanwhile, overall, I have already abandoned any reasonable hope for the future, and come to the conclusion that there is nothing that I could personally do to "be prepared" for the ways that all the various runaway disasters are multiplying each other!I hear ya buddy. It appears that the neocons/neonazis have a monopoly on idiocy or insanity. This is a smal group with immense power. A person cannot even comprehend the 100's of ways they are screwing up this world. Another ZH article today stated that only 11 countries on the planet aren't involved in some kind of a war. Let's put them in charge.
I agree and I'm trying to be prepared to rebuild once this shitshow gets done circling the drain.
MSM globally owned and controlled by similar group of oligarchs.
The public get fed the bs... but countries like Germany know the truth of the matter...
But Russia China etc....have the real power over the masses. ..When energy and costs sky rocket upon their willl....the masses will be wanting to lynch their govts...
I think The Guardian just shit in its credibility nest
It's obvious, Kiev is using
the tried and true military tactic
"hit 'em where they ain't"
Ukraine Army is a bunch of Vodka soaked buffoons....Russia should nuke Kiev and be done with the pesky Mosquitos
The pro-Russian bent of this site is quite frankly disturbibg. I am no fan of the current government of the US, but if I had to choose between the US government and Putin.... It's really no choice at all.
One reason their is no physical evidence is likely that any destroyed vehicles are in rebel held territory.
It stands to reason that IF the Russians were sending vehicles, military supplies, weapons, and men over the boarder into Ukraine, they would steadfastly deny it, don'y you think?
The US would do the same in the same circumstance.
And the Donetsk People's Republic being a credible source, please give me a break. In addition, they never claimed the Ukraine destroyed their own vehicles in friendly fire.
There is no logic to this article what so ever. What a waste of time. It sheds no light at all on what happened or may have happened.
Dear Brave Sir Robin,
I can't speak for everyone on this site, but my "pro-Russian bent" in derives from these facts:
The two parties to this conflict -- Kiev/Washington and Moscow -- are pushing two distinct solutions to the problem posed by Ukraine's complete lack of viability as a state as now constituted: Kiev/Washington seeks to cleanse Eastern Ukraine of its Russians. They believe Ukraine must remain a unitary state and to this end must be forcibly Ukrainianized even if this requires genocide. Consider Poroshenko's policy during the brief cease fire in early July: you can leave and go to Russia, or you can stay but first you must drop your weapons (i.e., meekly submit to forced Ukrainianization.) Kiev/Washington's approach would certainly solve the problem of Ukraine's utter lack of viability as a state. Trouble is -- it's a Nazi-style solution.
Then there is Moscow's approach: immediate cease-fire along with negotiations to re-constitute Ukraine on a viable basis: end the practice of Kiev centrally appointing governors, regional autonomy along the lines of pre-Lincoln USA (in fact more like the US of the Articles of Confederation-- i.e., pre-1789), neutrality as a constitutional provision (i.e., non-membership of any military bloc), Ukrainian and Russian both given the legal status of official languages of state (in Finland, 5% of the population is of Swedish origin and most of those are completely assimilated, but Swedish is one of Finland's two official languages), and a solution to the pipeline issue that would have Russian throughput, Ukrainian ownership (plus transit fees) and European (most likely German) management of the network, etc.
Now do you see what so many ZH people think Russia is in the right? Its approach is not neo-Nazi, but really quite enlightened.
So, if VVP wants peace, why is he supporting the pro-Russian forces in the East (though to what degree is in dispute)? 1) the Washington-backed Ukrainian military is coming at Donetsk and Lugansk with genocidal intent, and 2) if Moscow were not supporting the East Ukrainian forces, Kiev would have no incentive whatsoever to negotiate.
One suspects that if Poroshenko were master in his house, those negotiations would have taken place long since. Clearly, Washington calls the shots, and Washington is determined to dragoon Ukraine into its hive of compliant states no matter the cost in human lives.
You said it, "IF"...
The fundamental assumption is that there were actually Russian military vehicles to destroy...
I am exhausted from this shit
Shhhh.... your giving away the plan.
friendly fire is the most likely culprit here. think about it if this was a false flag op there would be all kinds of photos and video clearly showing the burnt out wrecks of apc's and ifv's with russian military tags highlighted. after all for a ff to be effective u have to be able show that it happened. i have seen a few photos connected to the story, but nothing that is in any way conclusive.
and for reasons mentioned above kiev obviously does not want such a blunder becoming public knowledge. as far as what the news crew saw it very well could have been a russian armored patrol, but one that never crossed the border. as i've said before if russia does intervien directly it will be obvious to everybody that they have decieded to pull that trigger. and there is no way they send regular undisguised military units over the hedge without air support. i thought maybe it was some kind of advanced recon unit that those guys accidently stumbled across when the story first hit last night but that seems unlikely.
whatever happened NATO seems eager to, once again, villify moscow proof be damned which just further illistrats just how badly they want the ukraine as one giant military base, thus driving russia deeper into a corner. this is of course just plain insane power mad lunatic behaviour, but then what else should we expect from those who actually believe they can win a nuclear war?
Nice thought exercise, but the most likely explanation is a plain old LIE, having no basis in reality whatsoever. Remember that we are dealing with psychopaths. They are con men, lacking human conscience, saying whatever gets them their 'way.' They will continue their search for the most palatable LIE that will gain them the political traction they need to carry out more atrocities. That is the one thing that everybody with one eye open should have learned over the last 15 years: the clinical psychopaths behind this shit have no reservations whatsoever about telling WHOPPERS.
LOOK LOOK ITS A BUK ITS A BUK
THERE IT GOES ACROSS THE
RUSKIES BORDER
I banged a Ukrainian chick once. I would do it again for sure.
Probably can get a deep discount on mail order brides about now.
Ukrainian, bitchez!
Make love not war is what I'm saying. You know what I'm sayin?
http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s13e09-butters-bottom-bitch
Looks like the only thing The Guardian and The Telegraph saw was their credibility fly out the window.
Somehow, I suspect that the career advancement of those two "reporters" will be just fine.
for me it happened ages ago with their disgusting propaganda blitz against Libya & Syria.
9/11 Media lies and contradictions got me searching for sanity outside The Homeland.
Krugman took out his Harry Potters magic wand. Poof.
/sarc
Could it be that Petro Poroschenko and the English press just walked into Putins trap? Somehow I surmise to see the Kremlins fingerprints...
Jose have you always been a slow learner?
Merkel will fix them right up. By way Merkel means Mars, the God of war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8J38gn7Ga8
There is an english caption
Looking back over the last 15 years, there is a clear pattern of attack by the City of London's agents against any threat to the petrodollar:
Iraq
Syria
Iran
Libya
Russia
The City controls the US and European central banks through its subsidiary companies.
The Second Faction is the emerging BRIC Bloc, who are resisting hegemony by the US, which acts as a Front/Subsidiary for the City.
None of us are privy to the Details, but we can be assured of this much as fact.
The expansion of the money supplies in these countries creates a great WMD/MAD scenario and keeps everyone in line.
If a country, say, Germany, does not want to play and follow its National interest, well, we have your gold. We can also crash your bank.
About 100 years ago one banking family established world economic hegemony. They have numerous associates and accomplices. When the Russian Czar opposed their hegemony, he was assassinated by the Bolsheviks made up of 'kinsmen' of this Banking Family. Do not forget, their progenitor settled his sons in the European capitals with their own banks. It may have been Morgan, but one of the wealthy American Tycoons died and it was revealed he personally had not Billions, but only a few million in his personal fortune. The rest was in trust for this banking dynasty. He had been only an Agent.
Russia has always been a thorn to this Family. Putin is their current enemy. He stands for Russian Nationalism. I am not saying he is a Saint.
The same family has control through its agents of the Western News Media, Entertainment, and political class.
An earlier writer here described the government of Israel as dominate by the European faction of this particular ethnic group, of whom the Banking Family belongs to.
Now, these Banksters are not foolish. They will also silently back the other faction by some stealthy means. If The US and Europe cannot "win," they will be abandoned.
The last resort of the Banksters is War.
History records they made profits on both sides in WW1 and WW2. "WW3" will be no different except in the numbers of casualties when there is a nuclear exchange.
At this point, the best bet for survival of the world's peoples is a rise in Nationalism in the BRICs Bloc. Mr Modi called for this last night in his Independence Day speech to India.
The best option for Americans is a new Nationalism based on eliminating the existing financial structure, much as President Andrew Jackson did during his fight with Biddle and the then US-Central Bank.
I am speaking of a Ron Paul Nationalism based upon Constitutional values.
While I write, the current PTB are busy trying to foment racial discord and balkanization of the US through the invasion of the southern US border.
As attributed to Ben Franklin, we must "...Hang together, or we will Hang separately."
Carry on.
The bases of the biggest technological leap of a nation occurred in the United States between the Civil Guera and the First World War.
Was when the United States closed their borders and develop its own technology with low taxes, copying and improving everything in the rest of the world.
Japan did the same but the guys did not have oil, coal, iron ore much less to afford all acquired knowledge and produce within its borders - Japan is now a huge rock with many factories and lots of old people, some trees and a lot of fish radioactive which depends on the rest of the world when it comes to materials matéias incidentally, has always depended.
The United States at that time had everything you need and more, vast areas of planting.
The United States entered World War II because they had a huge surplus of unemployed in the coming 1929 Depression, people precisaam burn, if they had not entered the war first, she would have ended in stalemate in 1917.
There was a second "technological leap" of USA after World War II but it was with importing brains - (?, Or do you think the Sikorski helicopters are WASP) German and Russian scientists. Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Better stop here, I know that much of the history of the USA and its implications than most natives.
hehe.
You might enjoy the cartoon version of your first paragraph if you haven't seen it:
http://www.zengardner.com/wp-content/uploads/kick-ass.jpg
Thanks!!!
I saved that one.
+100
LakeCity re.Looking back over the last 15 years,
Great post. Sombody put up The Declaration of Independence the other day, highlighting the sections dealing with the people's right and responsibility to raise up and reclaim the government. The way it is written implies it is not a one-time event. After reading same, I came to the surprising conclusion that we are still under the rule of law in a situation that the Founding Fathers envisioned. We the people just haven't acted yet.
Kiev got beat up
Kiev had to have a distraction.
There was not a Russian column.
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/2014/08/15/
Thanks for the link.
Lies to support bigger lies to support great big lies has blown up in NATO's face! NATO and the war monger propagandists have 'blown' it again.
BREAKING: Russians Bringing in Tanks into Ukraine Now
http://www.moillusions.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Lifting-A-Tank.jpg
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
Almost peed myself laughing! Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
Excellent!
Where are all the Russian soldiers both dead and captured?
When it comes down to it we are just pawns in this sad power game. War is hell and something to be avoided. If you doubt this just ask some of the many people displaced from their homes in Syria. More on the subject of sovereign borders in the article below.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-issue-of-sovereign-borders.html
Your question is good, your text is horrible.
Read more.
Bait and switch. The new model Disinfo Agent wants to be your friend.
Since yesterday I am following this "news".
There are only two ways to explain:
1 The guys did not know where they were, did not know geography, do not know the difference between military equipment and understand nothing of practices of war.
2 are dishonest.
By placing 100 armored vehicles moving in the middle of the night, you hear the noise until the horizon line which is 18 Km (kilometers) away!
There is a third option:
Some secret agent caught these two "journalists", put them behind a convoy of tanks and told them "there is the border with Ukraine, these are Russian tanks entering."
Unhappy with a head full of vodka Cataram their mobile satellite and made ??a beautiful shit.
hehe.
hehe...Russian troll blogger still trying to learn English. Hehe.
Zionist troll blogger losing hearts and minds by the day. You're the old style bitchy troll. I guess they need to keep some bitchy trolls to create contrast for the new style wanna-be your friend troll. I just wish your garbage didn't take up so much space.
"Russian defense ministry said that there was no Russian military column that crossed into Eastern Ukraine..."
Da, it was a Ukrainian separatist convoy trained by Russia using captured Ukrainian and Russian equipment.
Typical Mother Russian comment! They have perfected the "distinction without a difference" and it beautifully fits the fat oaf with the drunken grin who winks and delivers the statements.
I don't hate Russia. But I do hate fascists and crooks. So I do hate the police state currently reigning in Russia. I hate that this weak and comical Putin Regime has enthralled a sizable number of the Russian people.
I hate that the lessons and critiques of the near past from the Soviet system are now looked back on with nostalgia by Russia's equivalence of hicks and hill billys.
Yes, it could be the federalists, fighting Kiev Fascist occupants, sent there by the jewish imposed muppets in Kiev.
I hope all of them will be killed, NATO bastards.
And you feel this way because ....... victim
Mainly, I feel left out.
Where is my offer to shill for the Kremlin? Why can't I get the same gig you all are getting?
Seriously, the Kremlin Troll army NEEDS me. Why can't you fuckers get this sent up the line?
Fuck. There is at least 20 of you folks screwing up the message and blowing it left and right. What makes you all so special?
So what if I don't fit the 20 something Muscovite who can't get a job and who has well placed parents profile! You need people of QUALITY...you know...Like ME!
We can't it would leave the nuttingyahoo army short handed if we signed you on.
That was just a side job, Mick. It's just part time shit and mostly requires me to envision Michelle Obama shaking her bung hole in my face while she smiles back at me. *Shivvvver* I can't do that anymore! Please get me out of there, Mick!
...let me guess, you're 'exceptional', right?
Yes! I am "exceptional" in my exceptionalism!
I rate you about a 9.5 on style, but your content rating is woefully deficient. But, DO carry on, the deep end of the pool is only a few steps forward. Someone here will pull you out before you drown yourself.
novictim:
Read and consider carefully the text below that post.
You had be at "banderstan"!
Would have liked "Yatzi Junta" too. Still, your bondage and discipline thematics are moving! Were you channeling Fourth Stooge? Terrific!
novictim:
If you live in Moskva:
You Krokodile injected into a vein?
If you live in Kiev, well, we will have a beautiful court war with gallows, guillotine or firing squad waiting for you and other Nazi Banderastan.
The thing will not be as in IIWW when you managed to escape to Argentina.
The guys from 52nd neo-Nazi who tortured their Ukrainian brothers of the East are one by one being buried, read Saker, everything is there.
Honestly, if I lived in Europe and had a swastika or something written in German tattooed on the body, feel afraid to show, I heard that even the Russian mafia is "erasing" Ukrainian Nazis.
This is not a threat, is finding what I read on the Net.
hehe.
Besides, your village would just recall you.
C'mon people! Brits are a bit better with geography than Merkens, but in the end, no Strabucks, or no afternoon tea, people get confused. They don't know the language, they don't know who is who, they don't know where they are. So they make a little mistake. What's a big deal?
you forgot anal retentive.
Alternative:
Yup!
What moves the world are ideas (regardless of the awful Google translation).
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Between organ stealing, selling artwork inside government buildings, dancing on skyscrapers, running a moving company, distributing boycotters, going to temple and then showing up at scientology, (maybe hare krishna) how do you work it all in?
If this story proves bogus from the get-go, Vlad can then invade any time he likes, because no one will believe he's invading. He's playing chess. Our guy is playing marbles.
your guy has no marbles. neither in his head or his pants. a mental eunich with a foreskin shortened to his lower lip.
Mental Eunich
+100
His faggot guy has to have none. He is talking head of Tel Aviv, hence he also does not need any.
with all this happening surely china cant be stupid enough to think its not next on the enemies list. ukraine might be a buffer zone for russia but russa is a buffer zone for china. best believe iran is on the table too.
if you've read the Gaurdian article you see this press prostitures bias spilling out all over him. This meaningless twit, trying to please his M16 subservient bosses is a credit to the profession. He should be give the putz-iger prize. idiot f*cker.
Poroshenko is becoming as good as Putin in propaganda war.
I am impressed.
Go Ukraine !
I am actually impressed. Bravo Poroshenko. It is quite an achievement to beat Putin in propaganda war.
Only you would be impressed.
Ukraine is losing the East and Putin will have Russian boots on the ground this weekend, in Donetsk next weekend.
Conference in Berlin coming up to deal with how Ukraine gets split into West and East.
Ukraine will be split before winter.
Biggest challenge for EU will be to keep American bullies out of the theatre and let Russia and Ukraine come to an agreement.
Walküre:
Not claim it, the thing is very confusing.
Many people do not know how the gas is stored in Ukraine are huge underground reservoirs, the thing is enormous.
The gas to Ukraine have been cut, Gazpron sends agreed to Europe (before going for such large deposits).
Much is being diverted.
Calculation evil and nastily that at most in two weeks all Russian gas to Europe through Ukraine will be terminated.
Germany will be stocked regularly through the Nort, the rest of Europe in the winter break tables.
Maybe burn the apples of Polish freedom or mediterranean oil in their lamps.
There is an exit but the Europeans are very elitist to accept.
Prefer to go down with the Titanic and killing.
hehe.
Well put karaio.
'to keep american bullies out'
looks like the eu failed awhile back...
Beat Putin !!!!!
Porky Poroshenko has lost and will always loose because of his motives and his Zionist masters.
Truth will out inspite of the massive cover ups
Are you sure? I'm thinking that false cries of wolf eventually succumb to truth, whatever that is. I do believe that if we follow the money it leads to Kerry's and Biden's kin. That's enough for me to dismiss everything coming out of DC.
I think all reasonable people believe "none of the above " propagandists. Whoever said that the first casualty of war is the truth was onto something.
All war is based on deception.
I can't help but sesnse someone is using timed price sensitive information to move the markets. If they knew a news release would send prices from up to down, then why not jerk the markets around to milk some cash out of it ?
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that gambling is taking place in this establishment!" - Police Captain Louis Renault
"Excuse me, Captain Renault, but here are your wiinnings that you forgot at the table." - Sascha (employee at Rick's "Cafe Americain")
from CASABLANCA (1942) starring Humphrey Bogart, Ingrid Bergman, Paul Henreid, Claude Rains, Sydney Greenstreet, Conrad Veidt, Peter Lorre, S.Z. Sakall, Dooley Wilson (as SAM, the piano player) and Leonid Kinskey (as Sascha)
Nice job, ZH.
For all those subjects who are on the 'questionable' side of this analysis:
Drama goes up, the trust goes down.
So far, looks like ZH has been PUNKED by Kiev! When are you going to learn ZH that governments lie. So as of now, it appears you are accidently guilty of spreading Kiev lies too. I hope if you do end up having to admit you were wrong to post HUGE headlines of a Russian invasion, then you will post a HUGE retraction of your multiple headlines that assumed Russia invaded Ukraine. You know CNN never will.
miken54321:
Tomorrow, no hangover, check the headlines in the Daily Mail on the day of the tragedy.
Compare what was posted on the same day.
I believe you had stuck his head with the butt of much regret shit that wrote above.
I write this mercilessly in consciousness, loser!
hehe.
No hard feelings.
Anyone that trusts anything that comes out of the USA is Stupid.
mercenaries come out of the USA .
Credibility for Zerohedge wanes when you publish articles written like this.
Very early in the article the writer casts doubt over the credibility of international journalism, in favour of Russian comment that there was no military incursion.
A more objective view might be to accept that the FSB sent 23 APCs over the border, but in giving Russia the benefit of the doubt, to consider this as a "border management" issue; there is no evidence that the APCs were supporting pro-Russian separatists.
My thought is that Russia got caught with its hands in the cookie jar and that Putin isn't as clever as people give him credit for.
Zerohedge, I'm disappointed. You can do better than this.
Where your argument falls down is that you have not produced any photo evidence of the "Russian convoy" that Poroshenko of Ukraine claims was eliminated when it entered Ukraine's territory.
Have we now arrived at the point where Poroshenko only has to assert something and it's automatically accepted as fact??
beetee:
Many newspapers in Brazil were heralding the fall of a helicopter in the city of Santos and ZeroHedge already talked about plane crash with candidate for president of the republic.
The guys that make the page are quick on the news, commentators are rats Network and in the know.
The credibility of ZH increases only appear when you guys like to talk shit.
Most people know how you are paid (and underpaid) in Israel or DC or even in some university.
Dude, you poked his mouth in the wrong place (would write "stuck her ass in the wrong place" but would be politically incorrect).
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
you understand what burden of proof means in a time like this. This isnt a story that some journalist reported about a dog doing back flips, no one would care about that. This is a story which could literally send the world to war and you dont give shit about proof especially in the time we live in with smartphones capable of tagging your exact gps coordinates down to accuracy of a few feet. And YOU dont care about that...DUTY AND BURDEN of proof. and YOU are the one disappointed in zerohedge? WOW
i mean whats their excuse, ive seen people take videos in active war zones. so what EXACTLY is their excuse. how do you have multiple people claim seeing something and not one person decides to take a photograh of something this important BUT BUT HAS TIME TO TWEET ABOUT IT AND NOT EVEN TWEET ABOUT IT WITH A GEO-TAG. LOLOL
btw how are those mh17 tapes coming along
johnmack:
You're talking to someone?
His ideas are interesting but direct.
Say you're talking.
Just rambling here at the end without beating up anyone's weird.
If the shoe serve me, I right away desbancaria the "anus of proof" and the whore of evidence is the testimony of the witness.
Good, my father was a lawyer, I learned a lot from him.
hehe.
Karaio, friendly advice. Sometimes silence is golden. Sometimes, less is more.
There oughta be a bus-load of dead and captured Russians, considering the carnage that the Ukrainians have wrought.
Let's see 'em.
Been saying this all week.... pics or it didn't happen.
Another fabrication by Poroshenko and Co.
how bad must it be in Kiev arround the MH17, if they try such tricks.
“Nazi theory indeed specifically denies that such a thing as "the truth" exists. […]
The implied objective of this line of thought is a nightmare world in which the Leader,
or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of
such and such an event, "It never happened"—well, it never happened. If he says that
two and two are five—well, two and two are five. This prospect frightens me much more
than bombs […]”
George Orwell
What we are up against is explained by Thomas Hobbes, a supporter of the proven lie and despotic tyranny of Divine Right, the lawless State, where "The Law is what 'we' say it is". This is no different to the self proclaimed Satanist Aleister Crowley's "Do what thou wilt be the whole of the Law":
Rights
You conceded your rights to the government, in return for your life
Civil Society
Civil society is the application of force by the state to uphold contracts and so forth. Civil society is a creation of the state. What most modern people would call civil society is "jostling", pointless conflict and pursuit of selfish ends that a good government should suppress.
Role of the State
Whatever the state does is just by definition. All of society is a direct creation of the state, and a reflection of the will of the ruler.
The Social Contract
If you shut up and do as you are told, you have the right not to be killed
Authorized use of force
The concept of just use of force is meaningless or cannot be known. Just use of force is whatever force is authorized
Violation of the social contract
No right to rebel. The ruler's will defines good and evil for his subjects. The King can do no wrong, because lawful and unlawful, good and evil, are merely commands, merely the will of the ruler.
........................................
Different Century, yet the same shit sandwich keeps being delivered by the psychopaths and sociopaths (who love to assume Divine Right, because they think they are gods).
Lawless States always fail (in human history there has never been a successful one yet), usually catastrophically, and usually accompanied by great bloodshed.
Well done Rastech!
Well, I sleep the dream of the righteous.
Here in Annapolis (altitude 1.100 meters), 22,9ºC, 35% humidity, 06:11 AM GMT, cold wind UP.
Good weekend all week (as).
:-)
Kiew should offer a fair deal to their Russian speakers in the East and the war would end within hours. But too many are not interested in such a deal---and all of them are far from the real hurting big gun fire...
"without confirmation of a destroyed convoy, the whole story falls apart as merely yet another unprecedented warmongering fabrication, one involving not only the Kiev regime, but NATO and the UK press as well!"
It was no lie and no fabrication. They simply mistook one of their own convoys for Russians, destroyed the whole thing and yelled destruction of an "attempted Russian invasion" into the ears of a desperate Rassmussen, who hastened to the nearest mike and made a fool of himself.
Bunch of retards.
No satellite images of after the event, mulitiple damaged vehicles in fields or wherever ?
We were presented with satellite images of apparent manoeuvres of missle launchers to validate accusations made.
Now only pictures of the humanitarian aid vehicles in mainstream articles talking of an apparent unrelated "convoy" in a different part of the country ? ! ? !
On such a large border the coincidence of TWO British journalist being in just the right place at the right time with out being detained, nor removed before commencement of a covert operation ( it it was) is some what remarkable.
Maybe they will show up here at some point. Quite amazing that these two journalists, who could well have been witnessing the trigger for WWIII, didn't manage to get a pic of the start of the "invasion".
Untypical place to find Brits...they are usually on the Costa Brava this time of the year...
basically more horse shit before the evil cabal actually perform their evil acts. They love confusion and they love to fark with the dumb peoples attention. I'm sure they have something alot more sinister cooking. Their MO throughout history never changes. Pathetic. At this point in the game, their is no need for Russia to do anything with regards to Ukraine as its disintegrating internally without any help from Russia. They have the South Stream build in progress, so Ukraine really is going to be pretty dame useless soon. So you have to ask yourself, in every strategic and tactical sense, they don't have to resort to conflict.
It strikes me as not too smart to send in an under powered group of military vehicles, that would no doubt be discovered by the enemy somewhere along the line and likely end some sort of fire-fight.
If a unit was sent in they would have been set up to defend themselves and thus cause casualties on the opposition in a fire fight. No statement to that effect, just that they were mostly or partially wiped out??
What would be the purpose of an incursion of vehicles as stated? What use?
Russia would have been well aware that an incursion unit(s) would have been expected by Ukraine, and thus spotted early. Thus if they did send this unit in the purpose must have been to get into a fight, but not really win. Which doesn't make much sense. Such an incedence doesn't give cause/excuse for a major incursion, which the already have.
I would expect if Russia sent in some units they would have contained enough fire power to harm the enemy if engaged.
UNTIL proven otherwise I think we have some bullshit invented then quoted by a couple of journalists then a make believe destruction of non existant enemy. OR the Ukrainians engaged and destroyed themselves.....but even that is unlikely...they don't have radio communication with each other??
OR the purpose of using military vehicle convoy was to deliver a large group of specialist soldiers to the 'rebels'. They drove in, parked the vehicles, abandonded them and made to the rebels with gear on foot.
Would be funny if Russia sent in some Rubber blow up, and plywood cut out vehicles, left them parked and retreated home. Ukraine victorious over a rubber and wood army.
What would be certain now is that Russia would have by now deployed military assets around the globe and at home in a fashion to meet expected scenarios. And that they would have various plans to counter various expected moves of the US.
I am waiting to see if some strange unexplained things happen in other parts of the world.
And we can be sure that part of their strategy is to ensure the US suffers in one way or other on its home turf, to put people presssure on the US govt.
ZH did what every western presstitute did based on lies directly out of Kiev--assuming they didn't fall for the childish tweets from "reporters" but relied on Poroshenko himself. The presstitutes plastered major headlines that "Russia Invades!" ZH was tricked into doing the same. ZH was tricked but assume the presstitutes were in on it. That's all I'm saying. And now that the damage is done the western presstitutes will just drop the story with their lie hanging out there and Walmart Shopping Zombies will walk around mumbling "Putin is Hitler." So I'm hoping ZH comes out with a BIG retraction saying they were set up and "Russia DID NOT Invade!" after all. I wish the Reuters, Bloomberg, Telegraph, Guardian, CNN, etc....would do a BIG retraction too but they won't. I think ZH is where you go for truth and an outright, unconditional retraction would go a long ways towards proving this is true.
Detailed expert analysis of the MH17 downing
Dear friends,
It is a huge pleasure for me to submit to you a detailed analysis made by "CDN" of the circumstances of the downing of MH17.
You will notice that CDN's analysis does not agree with my own hypothesis. The difference being that CDN does have the professional expertise (accident investigation) to write such a report while I do not. Still, CDN has specifically asked me to "please encourage readers to be critical of my analysis" which I indeed encourage you to do: his analysis does not pretend to be The One And Only Truth but instead a basis for discussion.
You can download his full report by clicking on either one of the following links:
visit Vineyard for the actual pdf links.
Uncensored videos - what Ukrainian soldiers say about the situation on the front:
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o77lO7KmftI
«Its all fucked up. The «Russians» are trashing us» – ENG SUBS (1:28 uploaded 9 hrs ago)
The media is censuring this? If 3 brigades of Ukraine Army were truly wiped out, this is major international news, those types of casualties in such a short time haven't been heard of since WWII !
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08c0GohxTDw
"Ukrainian Soldier's call from the Front to TV show" – ENG SUBS (2:57 uploaded 7 hrs ago)
no1wonder good videos cheers : )
complete cover up many 1000s of dead kiev men by the look of it
The white house can barely confirm what day of the week it is. We’re expecting a lot from them to actually critically review, analyze, and think through the bullshit the alphabet soup agencies are feeding them. Of course, the alphabet soup agencies are told what the white house allegedly wants, so in a sense the entire US government is an ongoing feedback loop of bogus information, foolish solutions in search of problems, self congratulating cronyism and patronage.
Not sure which group can claim credit for doing the most long term damage to the USA this year… Washington, Moscow, Ukraine, Iraq, NSA, MSM, etc...
ROFL.