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Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks? White House "Can't Confirm Russian Convoy Was Destroyed By Kiev"
While today's trading session was marked by news which at first blush correlated with what may be the 2014 equivalent of the Archduke Ferdinand shooting, in retrospect the newsflow made painfully little sense. Let's recap:
- Yesterday afternoon, two UK reporters working for the Guardian and Telegraph, supposedly located by the border in east Ukraine, reported that they were "eyewitnesses" as a convoy of military trucks crossed the Russian border into the breakaway Donetsk republic, aka Ukraine. While there have been photos of the military trucks that have accompanied the Russian humantiarian convoy on Russian territory, there has so far been no proof, aside from said eyewitness reports, confirming Russian military vehicles entered or were in Ukraine.
- This morning Ukraine military’s spokesman, Andriy Lysenko, shocked the world when newswires reported that Ukraine forces had attacked an armed convoy from Russia, and "destroyed" a part of it. This was subsequently reiterated by the president of Ukraine himself who said that "the given information was trustworthy and confirmed because the majority of that machines had been eliminated by the Ukrainian artillery at night", and by the secretary-general of NATO, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, who said that the alliance had detected an “incursion” of vehicles from Russia last night, adding that “what we have seen last night is the continuation of what we have seen for some time." Alas, as in the case above, just more verbal reports, with zero actual evidence.
- Shortly thereafter, Russia responded when the Russian defense ministry said that there was no Russian military column that crossed into Eastern Ukraine, and that the above reports are based on "some fantasies."
This is where the breakdown of logic occurs, because for Russia to make such a formal statement it clearly implies that Russia believes there is no evidence of destruction of a Russian convoy in Ukraine territory, something which obviously would exist if indeed as Ukraine's president had claimed, the "majority of the machines had been eliminated."
If true, it also implies that either Ukraine had fabricated the entire story, and certainly the part about the destruction of the convoy and by extension that Russians had ever entered into East Ukraine. Furthermore, that would also suggest that the reports of the British reporters were also a fabrication.
Unless, of course, there is evidence, in which case the credibility of the both the Guardian and Telegraph reporters can be preserved, Ukraine can not be accused of fabricating a story to suit what some may say its own warmongering ambitions, and the onus is on Russia to explain why it lied about there being no invasion.
More to the point, the onus is on Ukraine to present some evidence, in fact any evidence, of a destroyed Russian military convoy instead of merely building upon a story conceived by the two UK media outlets, because if Ukraine indeed has no evidence, then its story falls apart and what's worse, the credibility and reputation of its government, of NATO and certainly of the UK press would be in tatters.
So what other possibility is there? Well, one that is all too unpalatable for Ukraine, namely that in its excitement to blow something up, it may have well destroyed some of its own military vehicles. A possible lead to such a turn of events comes from this Interfax report citing the leadership of the breakaway Donetsk People's Republic.
The leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic has dismissed the Ukrainian government's statement on destroying a convoy of what appeared to be Russian armored vehicles in eastern Ukraine.
"We haven't received any armored vehicles from Russia. No Russian units, including Russian armored vehicles, have crossed the border. Hence, no Russian armored vehicles could have been destroyed," DPR First Deputy Prime Minister Andrei Purgin told Interfax on Friday evening.
Purgin claimed that, on the contrary, the militias destroyed about 100 Ukrainian armored vehicles.
"A lot of Ukrainian armored vehicles were destroyed today, 7 at one place, 12 at another. And the same all over the DPR territory. A total of about 100 of them," Purgin said.
The implication is clear: while 100 or so Ukraine armored vehicles may or may not have been destroyed, one wonders if indeed the Ukraine army was responsible in "aiding" the separatists with what would appear to be a friendly-fire incident?
But perhaps the most damning evidence comes from none other than the White House itself, which according to CNN just admitted that while it accuses Moscow of "incursions" it can't confirm the convoy was destroyed by Kiev.
WH accuses Moscow of "repeated Russian & Russian-supported incursions" into #Ukraine tho says can't confirm convoy destroyed by Kiev
— Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) August 15, 2014
Perhaps for the simplest reason that there is no evidence to help with the confirmation process?
Which is rather unpleasant, because as explained above, without confirmation of a destroyed convoy, the whole story falls apart as merely yet another unprecedented warmongering fabrication, one involving not only the Kiev regime, but NATO and the UK press as well!
What is worse, is that if indeed the specter arises that Ukraine is lying about an event that nearly gave the market a heart attack on the belief that a new international war involving Russia may be about to break out, was Ukraine also lying about flight MH-17. And else may the Kiev regime been lying about?
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is what comes from relying on US eye in the sky satellite intel....collateral dmg...doh
Wall Street tricks again. They are dying for volatility, especially on option expiry day. Those bribed reporters made manipulators some big bucks. Ran all the stops.
It is is intriguing that people who hate american imperialism have no problem with Putin ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians.
Are you a masochist? Do you get off when you make people think you are an idiot?
I believe that the United States, with its satellites, spy planes, listening posts, CIA and advisor boots-on-the-ground know precisely what did or did not happen with this "invasion" and with MH 17. I also believe that the United States will never, ever tell the public because it makes its Ukraine allies look really, really bad.
Obama, Kerry, Hagel, Brennan and the rest of them are bereft of integrity, but you already knew that.
Russian terorist leader that has invaded Ukraine, gives announcement that recieved from Russia:
But there are still people who lies & believes own lies that Russia doesn't arm those terorists.
http://youtu.be/BjAvnUa1Wak
Take a look to this interactive map that is being updated with events. You can see that Russia has invaded Ukraine and created coridor to deliver those armed forrces & supply to DNR and now trying to connect with LNR. This is pure occupation disguised in propoganda about some kind of fight against evil Ukranians that all these years where their closest brother and suddenley out of the blue - they are fascist nazis that must be destroyed. Of course if you invade other country you have to demonize it in public but just how absurd and stupid people have to be to listen those media propoganda lies and not look at facts. Russia invades & occupies Ukraine. Already annexed Crimea.
http://liveuamap.com/
They are not terrorists.
Like these fun-loving out of the blue guys?
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/svoboda2...
Or these one's http://youtu.be/QNLxiWBxA1k
Oh do try not to be a dick - it's not the right website for that garbled nonsense - go comment on cnn.com
Look ZHers, we've entered the Twilight zone a long time ago. The short of it is that we are living under fascist rule. You believe only what the fascists want you to believe---you believe in anything else you will be labelled as a conspiracy theorist, crazy, freak or otherwise. So worry about the sugar shack IPO and leave politics up to the CIA, all while Barry-O just hit a new high on his XBOX NBA Live---way to go Barry!!!
god forbid we should mention ZH's culpability in pushing this groundless story...keep beating those war drums Tyler, first rule of fight club, if there isnt a war, invent one
Exposing the fraud is not beating the war drums.
According to those videos from the front the Ukraine army is being decimated in very large numbers.
So many thousands are dying on both sides, and for what, for some USA-Oligarch geopolitical game.
Some Western oligarchs & Putin oligarchs.
No-one cares about that it's Ukranian land and no-one cares about Ukranian people.
Ukrainan land? since when? Since tje jewish bolseviks attached it to Ua, 'cause they wanted more industry in the kulak regions of SU?
U r a moron.
IF Russia has invaded to East Ukraine then I would expect a whole bunch of US squealing and satellite photos.
The US spent $5bn creating a coup and changing the Ukraine government just to make it US NATO friendly and allow permanent US military presence along Russian border.....BUT it seems, as usual, the US has simply created a fucking great mess that gets thousands killed, and no good result.
The US would have known for sure that Russia would fight tooth and nail to keep the Crimea...and would fight strongly to deny US military bases in the Ukraine.....thus the US goals seems to be just to create a giant mess on Russian border, strengthen USD...and if they got lucky some gain in the Ukraine. Its all a game to the US.
the ukrainian govt is accusing russia of racism, and like americans have gone looting, liquor stores
The market closed higher on Friday, despite shit hitting the fan everywhere.
(just maintaining the financial news aspect of geopolitical events)
Ukraine Army destroys aid convoy.
http://www.searchrobot.net/overloaded_truck.PNG
I remember the cold war, I also remember the analysis the NATO powers had on the Soviets. 35,000 tanks if mobilized would be on the western coast of France in under 30 days. The only way to stop them would have been by using battelfield nukes.
Link to Rand Corp. assessment http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/notes/2007/N2859.pdf
The point I'm trying to make with this is, if Russia decided to move against Ukraine it wouldn't be with 20 phantom tanks sneaking through a gap in a barbed wire fence.
Unless they wanted to provoke a response and give Putin an excuse to send 35k tanks into Ukraine.
What's 0bama going to do; severely admonish Putin?
Those are cold war numbers 35/M but I would say they still have 1/2 that number and more modern. When and if they move I'd say Putin could cut the country in 1/2 in under a week.
Putin won't be drawn into a war no matter what lies come from Kiev and the State department.
I'd make just two points about this;
1. The Russian Federation is not the Soviet Union; in fact it is still recovering from the collapse of the SU and its aftermath for Russia of Wall St, Harvard and Chicago school plunder and is still rebuilding its defences.
2. Neither NATO nor RAND CORP saw the collapse of the SU and the fall of the Berlin Wall coming. They were caught with the pants around thier ankles. So much for thier analysis.
Further, if their analysts are so shit hot, how come they couldn't predict the utterly predictable response of Russia and Vlad to their attempts to subvert and destroy Russia both through NATO and Ukraine. Russian military doctrine plans for the deployment of tactical nuclear weapons in the event of any Nato RF conflict, and the distance from tactical to strategic exchanges could be just that of moments. These people in NATO and FUKUSrael are not just evil, they are hopelessly insane.
No they couldn't predict Gorbachev, but I agree with the rest of your post.
Stats on current Russian military strength. http://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?coun...
Of note, you can also search China on this page as I don't think they would sit this one out.
A truck stop cafe in the Rostov region of Russia has banned President Obama and members of the US Congress.
http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvJIxWCCUAAD_dh.jpg
Anyone complaining about bias in the MSM wants to ask why ZH isn't publishing details of why Rosneft has asked the Russian government for a US$42bn loan. The sanctions will harm all of us, "the West" and Russia; the real issue is how far it will escalate because at the moment I don't get the feeling Putin wants to look stupid.
Well, Rosneft needs investments to explore new oil fields.
It'll pay back with interest. Western banks are cut from this interest. They invest into bogus electric car companies instead.
Address those questions to Rosneft and not to ZH.
Pls. share the answer from rosneft here in the discussion. Thanks.
Are we there yet?
1.) According to some reporters on-scene, the NIGHT attack by Kiev artillery on the Russian convoy and/or Russian military vehicles never occurred and is simply a ruse to further involve NATO troops directly; OR the Kiev artillery mistakenly attacked some of their OWN military vehicles near the Russian border. Since the artillery attack on these vehicles was at NIGHT and, presumably out of sight of the artillery personnel, such "friendly fire" incidents are not uncommon in any military conflict.
2.) Second, it is TRUE that the "rebels" in eastern Ukraine possess some armored vehicles (APC's) and a few self-propelled artillery. However, small quantities of such weapons (as well as tanks, heavy mortars, heavy machine guns, small arms and abundant ammunition for all of the above) for many years were stored ALL OVER UKRAINE in armories for rapid access by the Ukraine military
It was reported in the TV news here (in Ukraine) months ago that some of these vehicles were seized by the "rebels", along with many small-arms. You may recall that soon after the coup, when mass anti-Kiev protests broke out all over eastern Ukraine, the local police and state-security personnel were sent into the major cities in eastern Ukraine to protect these armories. Further, in the early stages of the fighting there, there were several well-publicized incidents (at least in Ukraine and Europe) in which Kiev military units simply abandoned the Kiev military and JOINED the "rebels", bringing with them their armored vehicles and artillery.
In fact, several months ago in Ukraine newspapers and TV, the Kiev government DEMANDED that the "rebels" return these vehicles and artillery to the Kiev military, since they "were the property of the Ukraine government". Seriously!
With each passing day, this "conflict" seems more and more like "bullshit-throwing" contest by politicians who will never be even close to a battlefield. PROPAGANDA is the weapon of the day, UNTIL the thermonuclear weapons start to fly!
John-Henry Hill, M.D.
retired physician
http://JohnHenryHill.Wordpress.com
Yawn... Just another month or two until the weather turns cold in northern Europe and Vlad's hand starts to turn the gas spigot....
Vlad is probably humming that Stones song "Time is on my side....", while the effete Eurodudes, American Neocon banksters, and their pet inbred Banderist goodesteppers in Kiev are getting increasingly frantic about finishing the ethnic clensing in eastern Ukraine before the weather turns a bit nippy. But it looks like it aint going to happen as scheduled, so I hope the Americans rev up those those C130's so they can bring in lots of FEMA blankets, Sterno heaters, and spam for the poor shivering Eurodudes.
Of course, as a certain high-ranking US government official famously said, "FK the EU", so don't be surprised if the Americans are too busy drinking Bud Lights and watching the NFL as the Autumn leaves begin falling. As a Redneck American buddy of mine told me last week... "Who the FK cares about Europe. They're just a bunch soccer-playing Socialists, cheese-nibbling wine-sniffing queers, and unshaven butt-fugly women who do a genocide every other generation. Let Putin deal with 'em. "
Well maybe there will be outright war in Europe, who knows. Nevertheless i absolutely prefer Europe over the US if it comes to safety. Our cops are still normal human beings and not robocops, no FEMA camps and no civil war scenes at least in Western Europe until now.
What ever the elites,NWO-guys are planning i guess it will become ugly in the USSA before it will be bad in the EUDSSR.
Just some statistic i recenty stumbled upon. In 2011 the german police fired a total of 85 bullets in the whole year, 49 of which were warning shots. Some Harlem cop fired about 90 on one suspect in one incident alone...
So you should probably think twice, which place is the safer one to stay...
My post was intended to be sarcastic...
Nevertheless, I 100% agree with you. The only good news from this side of the Pond is that the majority of my fellow ill-informed American goobers can't even find Ukraine on a map let alone want to press for a war against Russia over it, especially after the made-in-the USA shit mess in the Middle East during the last decade.
So I suspect and hope that despite the tsunami of Russophobic propaganda oozing out of our MSM, the NWO Neocon banksters, their politician stooges, and their pet MSM will fail to rouse the American public into a fighting frenzy. As my beer-drinbking tail-chasing nephew told me last week: "Whenever Anderson Cooper or Bill O'Reilly start yelling about how evil Putin is, I just channel surf until I can find some video clips of Kim Kardashian's dumper."
16 August 2014 2:31pm - News from the Front:
It looks like one "hell" of a battle near the plane crash area. Ukie forces south of the Torez line appear to be getting slaughtered by Bezler's Resistance fighters. There's nowhere for them to run to.
Meanwhile, around Luhansk the enemy is being outflanked by the resistance fighters on all fronts. The invaders can only resort to long range rocket attacks.
There are now 4 separate pockets of trapped Ukraine troops in South Luhansk, S.E. Gorlovka, South KrasnyLuch and South Donetsk.
Summary: Bloody battles everywhere. The battle dynamic has shifted from a Ukie offensive to a resistance offensive. Heavy losses of Ukie troops continue. Resistance collecting abandoned weaponry as Ukie troops vacate lands.
16 Aug 2014 11:15am - News from the Front:
Resistence fighters have almost entirely destroyed the Ukie 30th brigade overnight. A mopping up operation is now proceeding.
In VerkhniKrnke the Right Sector headquarters was destroyed along with 6 APCs, 4 tanks and an ammunition depot overnight.
Resistence Commander Bezler reports that over the last 3 days his group destroyed 47 tanks, 17 APCs and 14 BMD of the Ukraine army around Gorlovka
The resistance army is now up to 10,000 fighters together with a huge number of locals in towns, villages and cities working in support roles. Its a big commmunity war effort.
The increase in reserves has meant Rebels now have a small number of forces free to begin cleaning up the artillery bombardment around Donetsk and they are attacking artillery units there.
Resistance fighters now have almost equal weaponry to Ukie forces - much of it taken from beaten brigades.
Summary: Advances being made by Resistance fighters throughout the field. The new military and polical leadership, announced a few days ago, appears to be haviing an impact on the war. Main focus of resistance is to neutralise the artillery outside the cities and towns. Kiev forces morale low. Balance of weaponry and fighters, in favour of resistance, begining to change the dynamics of batttle.
To no1wonder:
Please take no offense, but can you provide the SOURCES of this information?
There is so much bullshit flying about these days, it is difficult to trust ANYONE.
Those of us watching the conflict find our information on sites like these. The information that filters onto ZH, certainly from me, is a synthesis from these sites usually with links where possible.
The upshot at the moment seems to be that the UA is in Deep Shit! They have blown the opportunity of rolling over the Militia whilst they had massive superiority in numbers, their strategy was almost non existant. They (and the US behind them) totally underestimated the motivation of people defending their own land. Now it is the Militia building up strength as they capture more and more equipment. I am looking forward to the day when they parade those US 155mm guns as war booty. Won't be able to use them as no ammo but fantastic background for a selfie.
The wide open countryside, just see the lack of cover in the videos, makes it perfect operational country for long range artillery both barrelled and rocket that the Militia are using to decimate UA positions. Both sides are using modern battlefied intelligence supplied from either the US or Russia, there are no hiding places nowadays.
This is probably the final nail in a pre 90s style battlefield. They may only be using T64s but it does show that tanks can no longer cut it against accurate artillery or ATMs. Against a 'simple' enemy maybe but against a well supplied enemy, no chance. Bear in mind that there is no close support air cover to attack tanks either (mind you they are vulnerable to MANPADs too).
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/novorossiya-military-briefin...
http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/
This next one seems to be a real time battle map, its in Russian so not sure.
http://militarymaps.info/
This is a new site recording all the armor lost by the UA
http://lostarmour.info/armour/
All these sites may be PR but the data and information in them seems to hold up to scrutiny in the following days. If it is real propaganda it is a very sophisticated operation, of CIA standard not Militia.
This last one is a real eye opener, it builds posts at an astonishing rate
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discu...
http://novorus.info/
http://novorus.info/
cassad.net
as it is in russian, you will need to translate it.
info cross-chek and double-check and tracking of the sources is up to you.
What a load of angst in this thread.
There is no evidence of a convoy going into Ukraine, as opposed to possibly the Russian part of the border area.
The convoy seen and described in print by the journos did not contain tanks, only APC and soft top trucks.
There is no evidence that any convoy Ukrainian or Russian was attacked or even that such a convoy even existed.
The claim that Ukraine destroyed an armored column including tanks with "artillery" is questionable, it would take a huge barage and good luck for remote, old-style artillery to knock out even one modern tank on the move. Smart weapons and direct anti-tank missiles or opposing armor is about the only way it would happen. So, it probably didn't happen. But what a weird lie. Was it a mistaken friendly-fire incident? Even that should be confirmable. Disinformation within the Ukrainian government?
"Artillery," in the modern sense of warfare goes way beyond howitzers and simple self-propelled guns.
If you don't think very modern stuff is going to Ukraine every day from Poland and Hungary borders more or less "secretly," you should think again. There are very good reasons why the Ukrainian army has started doing remarkably well.
Could you give a link please?
If Ukraine has something like the American MLRS that can launch dozens of "brilliant" submunitions and yet is still called "artillery", that would certainly do it. I'm just curious if that is the case. Whose weapons do you say Ukraine is getting - Russian, European, or American? Those being pretty much the choices for the top-level stuff afaik.
from bot tak at saker blog
That "Russian invasion" zio-media false flag was an Israeli operation. It originated in false info spread by Israel's UK house rag the Guardian. The Israelis use the Guardian in this matter when it is about something they think is important.
The purpose of this false flag is to "muddy the waters" around the aide convoy and the efforts the ZPC/NWO are desperately using to try and stop it. The Russians have already said they fully expect that the banderlog will be used to attack the convoy once it crosses the Russian border. A "Russian invasion" is a way of pre-empting the news of such a banderlog attack - IE: the zio-media and ZPC/NWO regime quislings will portray any banderlog attack as a defense against "Russian invasion".
What is interesting about using the the Guardian to start the false flag media story is that the zio-fascists are basically burning a major propaganda resource of theirs. The Guardian will have the credibility of Fox News in the future. Their rep is effectively dead among the 90+ IQ crowd now.
Ever since the green "color revolution" attempt against Iran, I've noticed the zio-fascists have been using up their credible pundits and media sources to promote their war crimes. With each new war criminal enterprise, the zio-fascists have a few more previously credible people and sources switch sides with previously anti-establishment figures switching over to support these war crimes. It's obvious these people were stealth zionists from the beginning and their "dissident" role was simply that, a role, and their new role is to use their rep as a dissident to sell the zio-establishment.
Getting back to the Guardian, trashing them, as this latest false flag will assuredly do, is a sign of how deep the desperation is in the ZPC. In their current panic, they will use anything. They remind me a lot of the desperation of the nazis in 1944-5.
Brabantian said...
Re UK Guardian and its laughable 'Russian vehicles invading' story by an 'eyewitness journalist' who apparently does not have a camera phone -
Guardian is family newspaper of the Rothschilds, world's wealthiest family and Zionist sponsor, Guardian known for taking CIA-tied bribes and for lying pro-CIA articles ... like their 2013 lies pushing the Syria false-flag 'chemical weapons attack' hoaxes ...
The Russian FSB and SVR report on the fraud of CIA fake 'dissident Edward Snowden', specifically cites as purpose of Dick Cheney's and Zbig Brzezinski's friend 'Snowden', to pump up status of anti-Russian CIA media such as the Guardian ... the Guardian highly praised by Snowden when he takes time off from spreading lies about 11 Sep 2001 NYC towers demolition 9-11 truth.
« The Guardian is controlled by Guardian Media Group, whose chairman is Paul Myners, a past employee of N M Rothschild & Sons Limited. Guardian Media Group is owned by the Scott Trust, which became a limited private company in 2008, with all trustees becoming directors of the Scott Trust. Anthony Salz was appointed as a trustee of the Scott Trust in 2009; he is currently executive vice-chairman of the investment bank Rothschild ... »
Rothschild control of UK Guardian
The ultra-Zionist Rothschild family is the world's wealthiest, estimated by mainstream sources (Forbes etc) to have a wealth in excess of US $ 400 billion ($.4 trillion !), but they spread it among numerous family members and thus can avoid the 'top billionaires' lists.
Guardian led CIA's 'Operation Fake Dissident', the hoax of the liar and fraud Edward Snowden, who in fact never 'stole' any documents and said little actually new ... Snowden a spearhead against 9/11 truth; trying to terrorise the world with US surveillance; pumping up CIA's lying media like NY Times & UK Guardian; and fronting operations to trap, silence and kill whistleblowers who contact CIA journalist goons like the Guardian, or ex-pornographer, Rothschild family asset Glenn Greenwald, now funded by billionaire Pierre Omidyar who helped set up the murderers of Kiev Ukraine.
Vladimir Putin knows Snowden is a fraud on a mission to help murder Russians, & is indulgently holding him in Russia to trade with the West at later date:
Moscow intel agency report on CIA Edward Snowden fraud
16 August, 2014 10:09
The first casualty of war, is the truth.
Of course Kiev was lying about MH-17!
The Video Report Deleted by the BBC - ENG SUBS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUvK5m2vxro
Shocking Analysis of the 'Shooting Down' of Malaysian MH17 by Peter Haisenko http://www.anderweltonline.com/wissenschaft-und-technik/luftfahrt-2014/s...
Spanish Air Controller Kiev Borispol Airport: Ukraine Military Shot Down Boeing MH17 http://www.globalresearch.ca/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airpor...
Kiev censors MH17 air traffic control recordings http://www.intellihub.com/kiev-censors-mh17-air-traffic-control-recordings/
Boeing-777 was downed by Ukrainian MiG-29, Romanian expert says
http://english.pravda.ru/world/ussr/13-08-2014/128268-boeing_crash_ukraine-0/
Romanian military expert, pilot and former deputy commander of Otopeni military airport, Valentin Vasilescu, presented his version of the tragedy of the Malaysian Boeing in the sky over Ukraine. According to the expert, the plane was shot down by Ukrainian MiG-29, possibly piloted by Polish pilot.
[...] the Romanian expert believes that it was not a Ukrainian Su-25, as the plane could not reach the altitude of 10,300 meters and strike the Boeing due to the poor level of training of Ukrainian flight personnel and technical imperfection of old Su-25. Vasilescu indicates that radars show Su-25 identically to MiG-29 fighter jet, as the planes have identical reflective surface area. "The altitude limit for MiG-29 is 18,013 meters, so the height, at which the Malaysian plane was flying - 10,300 meters - was easy to achieve." "The Su-25 does not have enough acceleration due to its maximum speed of 975 kilometers per hour, so it can not catch up with a Boeing-777, and follow it at a distance of 58 kilometers at a speed of 900 kilometers per hour and at an altitude of ten thousand meters, keeping the velocity of about 200-300 meters per second, to attack it from on-board weapons. A Mig-29 has two high thrust engines, allowing it to develop the speed of 2000 kilometers per hour. The fleet of the Ukrainian Air Force has fighter aircraft MiG-29 that are capable of intercepting Boeing-777. The fighters are based near Kiev and in Ivano-Frankivsk," the expert concludes.
Ukraine wants to start the war with Russia. This how they expect to receive money from west...
Russia will do everything to avoid it as Ukraine is a bankrupt country, and Russia doesn't need to invade as west will soon beg Russia to take over the mess as EU is in dire economic situation.
Humm...lies, deceits with coercion,mass murders, sanctions and war versus diplomacy with the intent to enable stabilization of a country and the return to peace and trade. Now which would I choose if I didn't have a gun wielded by a Big Nazsty pointed at my head. Perhaps MH 17 also had a double purpose as a warning of what can happen if you piss off the Big Nazsty and/or his little Zionist ally and take a flight....or run an airline for that matter...?
Goooooooooooooooood
Moooooooooooooooooorning
ZeeeeeeeeeeeeroHeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeDgeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Woke up just now (12:20 PM - GMT), was checking yesterday's comments.
Philosophizing about life:
One interesting thing is that, who comments on Blog can take a lot of punches from time to time.
Other times is praised, even wins medal.
Neither Tyler escapes, now and then put something that displeases some sectors of society.
Any commentator who only get ++++ us your comments probably do not have their own opinion, uses less than half of the brain and has high Ignorance Quotient.
People with their own opinion, people who are not politically correct (like me) who sends a shit what he considers wrong when commenting on Blogs are likely to be hit.
It's part of life.
Life had already made ??me jaded when it comes to social interactions in service long before the network arise (my first job was at 14 years of age in Real Estate in 1976)
My first email was a Windows 95 with dial, date 1995 (there was no "hotmail" was "msn" (MicrosoftNetwork) still in use as the main family communication).
When I write here, do not want to respect my gray hairs on the Net, on the contrary, what makes me young are precisely the interactions with young ideas.
Old Network is like a vampire, assimilates everything you read, join your life experience, and comments.
I can identify some guys like me who comment on ZeroHedge is much like text with Paul Craig Roberts, an old man who likes cats, and writes what he thinks, whoever it hurts.
Indeed, this is a characteristic of people like us, have no fear, life is slipping away, we want to leave something for you to reflect.
An old man like me has nothing to lose by dispatching their asses kicked in the Government or imbeciles commentators (if sue me probably die before finishing the lawsuit Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk).
There is an extremely important observation that I think you should know:
The keyboard is like the eyes.
Your keyboard is the window of your soul.
When I read what you write as if he is looking in your eyes on a bar table.
I believe this is the only relevant contribution that leave the network, the above observation.
As usual, can be used without citing the source.
Well, I'm here, I need to wash the motorcycle, fuel, and have a few beers with my physical friends.
Greetings.
Proftel.
ISIS is about to land on Myrtle Beach. Lindsey Graham told me so.
Poroshenko is an evil lying bastard. Maybe someone is holding a gun to his head or his family's head? I'm trying to be nice and give him the benefit of the doubt. On second thought, no way. He is simply an evil lying bastard. All of the Kiev government is full of posers and liars.
I sincerely hope that the Dutch and Australian people understand the game that's being played and how their nationals were simply used as pawns aboard the plane that got shot down by Ukie fighter jets. Imagine how they must feel when they realize that Kiev is lying in order to get the world dragged into a major war?
At the same time, it's pretty obvious now how perverse the corporate media has become and twisting the truth, pointing fingers and breaking and dissimenating completely bogus information in order to create opinions.
Putin and Russia have every moral right to send supplies and resources to ethnic Russian fighters in East Ukraine. Please, stop calling them "rebels". The labels are so stupid. These people are fighting for the freedoms of 8 million ethnic Russians in East Ukraine who have no hope, no future if the current government in Kiev stands. They are "freedom" fighters in the most classical sense and history will later set this record straight.
East Ukraine is Russian. Look up the history on Ukraine which is not very old.
The US and allies are sending weapons and resources to Kurds in Northern Iraq to fight for their freedom from a brutal genocidal islamic terrorist group. How is this any different than what Putin is doing? I'm still amazed at the restraint and the patience from the Russians. Maybe they're doing this only begrudgingly because it is not their turf and they're avoiding to look like the elephant in a china shop.
Russia is fighting the West in a propaganda war which has turned into an economic war and they're faced with a potential hot war at its Eastern border if Kiev succeeds in dragging the West into their delusions of grandeur.
East Ukraine is Russian. Period.
"Poroshenko is an evil lying bastard. Maybe someone is holding a gun to his head or his family's head?
Are you referring to the evil lying Victoria Nuland?
You can say so. You're among friends.
Ukraine lost 3 battalions, 4500 men, the other day. They are taking a beating.
My last "All About Eve" or 'All About Kiev' comparison. Promise.
Karen drains her gas tank so Margo will miss her train back to Gotham and Eve (her understudy) will get to perform.
Eve's performance is extraordinary. Her big break. But it begs the question:
ADDISON ... and what a happy coincidence that several representatives of other newspapers happened to be present. All of us - invited that afternoon to attend an understudy's performance...KAREN Some of the morning papers carried a little squib about Eve's performance. Not much, but full praise...I couldn't imagine how they found out about it - but Lloyd said Max's publicity man probably sent out the story...
MARGO
... what gets me is how all of those papers in town happened to catch that particular performance!... The little witch must have had Indians runners out snatching critics out of bars, steam rooms and museums or wherever they hole up...
The question for Fatty Poroshenko is how did all those newspaper reporters and fair and unbiased bystanders just happen to be loitering around a gap in the fence on the Russian-Ukrainian boarder at the very moment a Russian convey decided to invade Poland, I mean Donbass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi6nAYpTUb8
the natural inferiority of the Kiev Fascist leadership means the campaign to terrorize and subjugate the people of East Ukraine is failing badly. So, the West is trying to figure some way of propping up the fascist attrocities with NATO help. Fabricating tales of Russian incursions might be the rationale for sending in NATO while crying "they did it first".
Ultra-Nationalist Right Sector (Pravyy Sektor) threatens Kiev!
Pravyy Sektor statement released one hour ago (excerpts)
"We appeal to the President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko to immediately restore order to the Interior Ministry, dismissing odious representatives of anti-Ukrainian forces from positions in the Ministry of the Interior, and to launch an investigation of their criminal activities."
"We also demand the release of all detainees, to close all criminal proceedings against the Ukrainian fighters Volunteer Corps "Right Sector" and other volunteer units and the return of all illegally seized weapons and vehicles in the war zone."
"In case of failure of our demands within 48 hours we will be forced to remove all of our units from the front lines, to declare a general mobilization of reserve battalions and start trek to Kiev for the purpose of rapid reform in the Interior Ministry. Derived column "Right Sector" will go to the full gear."
source: Pravyy Sektor website ; Pravyy Sektor VKontakte page
Given the spy power watching Ukraine, I can't believe the convoy event would go undetected. It didn't happen. We must at least be grateful they didn't fabricate a satellite video and dig up Colin Powell to explain it. There is still time, of course.