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Under What Conditions Can The US Army Engage Citizens: The Army's "Civil Disturbances" Primer
With events in Ferguson deteriorating from day to day, despite the arrival of the Missouri National Guard, some have asked what further escalation steps are possible.
As a reminder, the reason Missouri governor Jay Nixon resorted to the aid of the National Guard is due to the limitations imposed by the Posse Comitatus Act which, broadly, seeks to limit the powers of Federal government in using federal military personnel, i.e., the Armed Forces of the United States, to enforce state laws. The Act does not apply to the National Guard, nor to the US Coast Guard, although the former will likely not see much practical use in Missouri.
However, as usually happens, there are loopholes and the best place to uncover these is in a 132-page primer conveniently released by none other than the US Army back on April 21, known simply as ATP 3-39.33 "Civil Disturbances." The primer begins with the umbrella statement:
Civil unrest may range from simple, nonviolent protests that address specific issues, to events that turn into full-scale riots. Gathering in protest may be a recognized right of any person or group, regardless of where U.S. forces may be operating. In the United States, this fundamental right is protected under the Constitution of the United States...
"Protected" it may be, but as usual, the interpretation of the Constitution is in the eye of the beholder, or more appropriately, gun holder. Because shortly thereafter we further read the following:
The Constitution of the United States, laws, regulations, policies, and other legal issues limit the use of federal military personnel in domestic support operations. Any Army involvement in civil disturbance operations involves many legal issues requiring comprehensive legal reviews. However, federal forces are authorized for use in civil disturbance operations under certain circumstances.
What circumstances? For the answer we turn to section, 2-8, whose provisions may soon become applicable to Ferguson and/or other municipal regions, should the rioting in the St. Louis suburb escalate further. To wit:
The Constitution of the United States provides two exceptions for which the Posse Comitatus Act does not apply. These exceptions are based upon the inherent right of the U.S. government to ensure the preservation of public order and to carrying out governmental operations within its territorial limits by force, if necessary. These two exceptions are—
- Emergency authority. A sudden and unexpected civil disturbance, disaster, or calamity may seriously endanger life and property and disrupt normal governmental functions to such an extent that local authorities cannot control the situation. At such times, the federal government may use military force to prevent the loss of life or wanton destruction of property and to restore government functions and public order. In these circumstances, federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbances (see DODD 3025.18).
- Protection of federal property and functions. When the need for the protection of federal property or federal functions exists, and duly constituted local authorities are unable to, or decline to provide adequate protection, federal action, including the use of military forces, is authorized.
2-9. Laws passed by the U.S. congress include four exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act. With the first three laws discussed below (10 USC 331–333) there is a prerequisite that the President must take personal action, including the issuance of a proclamation calling upon insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably within a limited time. The four exceptions, based on law are—
- 10 USC 331. When a state is unable to control domestic violence and they have requested federal assistance, the use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
- 10 USC 332. When ordinary enforcement means are unworkable due to unlawful obstructions or rebellion against the authority of the United States, use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
- 10 USC 333. When a state cannot or will not protect the constitutional rights of the citizens, due to domestic violence or conspiracy to hinder execution of State or Federal law, the use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
- House Joint Resolution 1292. This resolution directs all departments of the U.S. government, upon request of the Secret Service, to assist in carrying out its statutory duties to protect government officials and major political candidates from physical harm.
In other words, if and when the US Armed Forces decide that rioting infringes upon any of these exclusions, then the constitution no longer applies and the use of lethal force becomes a viable option against US citizens.
It gets worse, because whereas one would expect that a "Constitutional expert" such as the president, Barack Obama would be the one tasked with interpreting if and when the Constitution no longer applies, the primer is quite explicit in handing over responsibility to "federal military commanders":
... federal military commanders have the authority, in extraordinary emergency circumstances where prior authorization by the President is impossible and duly constituted local authorities are unable to control the situation, to engage temporarily in activities that are necessary to quell large-scale, unexpected civil disturbance.
So should Obama resume his vacation even as things in Missouri escalate dramatically, and be "unreachable", it may well come to pass that Obama's opinion will be irrelevant not only whether the National Guard should be unleashed in Ferguson, but whether Posse Comitatus is suddenly null and void.
The good news: the use of lethal force is not the only option the US Army would have if and when it engages with the population. US citizens may simply be herded into "temporary internment camps" for reindoctrination purposes under the supervision of PSYOP Officer (no really, they used that word), as follows from the Army's FM3-39.40 "Internment and Resettlment Operations" manual:
Internment and Resettlement (I/R) operations facilitate the ability to conduct rapid and decisive combat operations; deter, mitigate, and defeat threats to populations that may result in conflict; reverse conditions of human suffering; and build the capacity of a foreign government to effectively care for and govern its population. This includes capabilities to conduct shaping operations across the spectrum of military operations to mitigate and defeat the underlying conditions for conflict and counter the core motivations that result in support to criminal, terrorist, insurgent, and other destabilizing groups. I/R operations also include the daily incarceration of U.S. military prisoners at facilities throughout the world.
An adaptive enemy will manipulate populations that are hostile to U.S. intent by instigating mass civil disobedience, directing criminal activity, masking their operations in urban and other complex terrain, maintaining an indistinguishable presence through cultural anonymity, and actively seeking the traditional sanctuary of protected areas as defined by the rules of land warfare. Such actions will facilitate the dispersal of threat forces, negate technological overmatches, and degrade targeting opportunities. Commanders will use technology and conduct police intelligence operations to influence and control populations, evacuate detainees and, conclusively, transition rehabilitative and reconciliation operations to other functional agencies. The combat identification of friend, foe, or neutral is used to differentiate combatants from noncombatants and friendly forces from threat forces.
Presenting army camps, hopefully not in a city near you:
Detainee facilities, an important planning consideration, are treated in the same basic fashion as any base camps. The same basic planning considerations are taken into account. Some detainee facilities will be subordinate to a larger base camp but they may also be at a separate location.
And:
The PSYOP officer in charge of supporting I/R operations serves as the special staff officer responsible for PSYOP. The PSYOP officer advises the military police commander on the psychological impact of military police or MI actions to prevent misunderstandings and disturbances by detainees and DCs. The supporting I/R PSYOP team has two missions that reduce the need to divert military police assets to maintain security in the I/R facility. The team—
- Assists the military police force in controlling detainees and DCs.
- Introduces detainees or DCs to U.S. and multinational policy.
- Develops PSYOP products that are designed to pacify and acclimate detainees or DCs to accept U.S. I/R facility authority and regulations.
- Gains the cooperation of detainees or DCs to reduce the number of guards needed.
- Identifies malcontents, trained agitators, and political leaders within the facility who may try to organize resistance or create disturbances.
- Develops and executes indoctrination programs to reduce or remove antagonistic attitudes.
- Identifies political activists.
- Provides loudspeaker support (such as administrative announcements and facility instructions when necessary).
- Helps the military police commander control detainee and DC populations during emergencies.
- Plans and executes a PSYOP
In other words, if and when the time comes to "override" Posse Comitatus, random US citizens may have two options: i) end up in the US version of a Gulag or, worse, ii) be shot.
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you mean climb the empire state like King K in front of the world?
Gorilla warfare is more basic impulse and visible even to Lady Jane-- as you stand like a colossus on your hind legs-- than guerilla warfare, which is just the opposite to King K's climb on Empire State.
The guerilla hides like a fish in the stream amongst other small fish. He is invisible.
His gorilla tail is small not like that of King K !
The gorilla acts like GWB in Iraq. See how that ends?
of course an effective guerilla would be a force with intellect and guile--unassuming, untraceable, without conscience or remorse, operating alone in areas of extreme vunerabliaty, idealistic, willing to sacrifice, lethal, multilingual, a master of disguises, have access to unlimited operating capitol and technology, and above all successful-----last I noticed there weren't a lot of those hanging around the corner bar.
You might have to rely on a bunch of gorillas after all.
I can make sandwiches!
The rest of that sounds extremely tiring.
I applaud the sentiment, but the word you are looking for is guerrilla.
maybe he intended "Planet of the Apes"
Or maybe just a monkey with a hand grenade.
Clearly you never saw the end of Trading Places....
Mao didn't advocate never engaging the enemy. Study up on guerilla warfare.
If you want to win, you will need to engage at some point. However, Page 1 of the manual states "Never fight a battle which may determine the outcome of the war."
Under What Conditions Can The US Army Engage American Citizens:
Once upon a time the US Army would engage non-citizens.
Then again, they’ve engaged even their own at times too.
When the bullets start flying and people start dying the rules don't mean shit.
You're in the one rule zone if you hold your ground.
Kill or be killed.
Simple as that.
As if there is anyone to enforce a law preventing them from doing whatever they want-or are ordered to do.
Yeah...
You.
"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war".
Lame, very lame. We the People not the Citizens. I am one of the people.
Its only the law, it can be changed in a few minutes to suit the situation, its a bit like peoples 'rights', they don't exist, they are privileges that can be taken away at will, refer what happened to Americans of Japanese origin at the start of WW2, there supposed 'rights' meant absolutely nothing.
"New law for a new day" - SC Justice Robert Jackson, 1954
Are you Americans demoralized yet?
Is that rhetorical?
/s is for /slow
USA ! U$A !! U$$A !!! UUUU oh $$$heeeeeet... AAAAAHHHHHH...........
No Rules
Yes, but I've gotten over it.
Why do domestic sheep exist in the first place? To get sheered and/or killed. Meeeehhhhh. The end.
PS. Epilog (or prolog): TPTB love this little excersice pre-run for things much larger yet to come.
I am pretty sure that Posse Comatatus was repealed as part of the Re-Authorization of the Patriot Act. US military now has free reign to act within the domestic borders if ordered by POTUS.
I'm no lawyer but..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act#Recent_legislative_events
seems like Shrub gutted it, and where he didn't, the Emperor will simply issue a decree...
Posse C is dead in all but name, and what strictures remain - hell the last 50 years or more has been creative ways to get around the plain meaning of language in Constitutional text. OPbama, or Hillary will just sign an executive order, and the thin veneer of legality is obtained.
But I suspect that you'll see DHS, FEMA, and other alphabet agencies before you see the army.
And with Chertoff around long enough to mold DHS in his image - why worry?
Much more at link below.
The Effect of the Posse Comitatus Act
Before speculating on why this act is so misunderstood, it is useful to spell out exactly what the act as it is written does and does not do. The Posse Comitatus Act
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/call/docs/10-16/ch_12.asp
A quibble: "Does not apply to the Coast Guard, which is part of the Department of Transportation and is both an armed force and a law enforcement agency with police powers."
The Coast Guard was part of DoT. It is part of DHS now. Changed hands in 2006.
The Rubicon is now marsh.
So take out the PSYOPS. Got it.
You have to ID them first. Not an easy task since they will be in a secure spot. They'll use face recognition software/video to ID the agitators, radio that info in to the the popo in the riot line, and the popo will then target, and try to snatch & grab the agitators/ agent provocatuers from the group.
recruiters
unless you're using reverse-reverse psychology...
We need more psy ops guys, guys!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ikO6LMxF4
Remember Waco TX.
Remember the Soviet Union.
Remember the Cultural Revolution.
Remember the Alamo!
When the revolution comes to your town, knock down the Nuclear Plants!
So we can all die? That makes no fucking sense.
I say go directly to their homes.
This makes no sense.
Prepare to be downvoted cuz God knows that when fighting a revolution you should make the whole fucking planet uninhabitable for any life whatsoever....to win.
Remember, Luciferian doctrine states complete bloody anarchy is something to be cherished. The "plan" could well be mayhem, maybe they even get off watching their own daughters die for all I know, these elites are fucking freaks.
The Samson Option.
Insanity, making a case for or against, history, law, exec orders, we are all insane, those long here on ZH know the level of crimes the corruption the bribes the bought judges and a loyal MSM to the masters of us all- the reptiles of international cabal, cfr to davos and bilderbergers..you have to open your eyes wide shut, but it may not be pleasant we are like a dog chasing it's tail. justify the criminal .gov all you want you are still nuts.
"have a little faith baby"
Meanwhile...
The Purge of Loyal Military Officers By Barack Hussein Obama ContinuesWe’re all ghosts at this point. Government at any moment for any reason may assassinate you.
Wall Street and the banksters stole money and made you pay for it. Now they want to kick your teeh in.
Maybe Lloyd Blankfein can give the directive indirectly to shoot to kill.
All this assumes American soldiers (some of whom presumably still believe in the Constitution) will be willing to shoot citizens, and/or imprison them. The question in the mind of the government overlords has got to be, how many of these guys will turn, and open fire on us instead? Likewise, there are a whole lot of combat trained Veteran's who have served over the last decade, and who might have something to say (behind their own guns), about a military shooting at their families and friends. Lastly, if guys living in caves in Afganistan can tie-up the largest military in human history, what can a population of 325 million Americans with 300 million guns do?
Now we can understand why Sandy Hook supposedly happened
‘325 million Americans’
That number will fall rapidly. After much consideration, I don’t like any of my neighbors and I believe most of the 325 million Americans you cite think similarly.
Actually, looking at the laws cited aboive, I see a LOT of latitude for a freedom-loving and libertarian-minded Governor.
I have highlighted select parts of the text, to illustrate the libertarian options available for a Governor who chooses to do so...
· 10 USC 331. When a state is unable to control domestic violence and they have requested federal assistance, the use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
· 10 USC 332. When ordinary enforcement means are unworkable due to unlawful obstructions or rebellion against the authority of the United States, use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
· 10 USC 333. When a state cannot or will not protect the constitutional rights of the citizens, due to domestic violence or conspiracy to hinder execution of State or Federal law, the use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
· House Joint Resolution 1292. This resolution directs all departments of the U.S. government, upon request of the Secret Service, to assist in carrying out its statutory duties to protect government officials and major political candidates from physical harm. <-- my comment: aka ‘Praetorian Guard clause’.
What I'm seeing here says that... Sections 331, 332 and 333 clearly allow a Governor to form and activate the State's Militia, to not only quell riots that the police cannot handle, but can also take over the police if the police terminally fail in their Constitutional duties. A friendly State Judge might certainly agree with such a Governor, although a Feral/Federal Judge will not.
Given that the US Army hasn't won a conflict in 60+ years - a World Record ? - lets not get carried away with its "capabilities".
They may actually be trying to win this one, however.
Yeah and when half quit to join the "resistance" where will the rest be then?
On Loyalist bases, under seige
Exactly....that's why they need drones and robotic development.
One of the bases that they fly drones out of is about 3-4 hours away from me by well traveled routes.
What does it mean "Win'?
If it means to accomplish what the political leadership demanded, then the Army has won rather a lot.
It is not the Army's fault that American politicians are incompetent dickheads who order stupid shit.
Just like it is not your waiter's fault when he brings you a disgusting dish that you ordered.
You got what you asked for.
No one asked the ARMY to make the middle east a nice and happy place to live. They ordered them to destroy the republican guard, and change the regime. Did the Army win? You would probably say no. But a soldier would say yes.
A soldier that accomplishes more than you ask for is not your servant, but your master.
Remember than next time you think about giving someone a gun.
The armed forces win the battles.
The politicians lose the wars.
How exactly was WWII won? After all, the country was rapidly infested by communists and nazis before the ink was dry on the surrender documents.
Didn't they win in Haiti?
Grenada
It's contained within the NSPD 51
As our short term memory continues to serve us???!!!...
The thoughtful state of emergency doctrine that gives the Commander-in-Chief (not the Congress) the means to declare that when "a flock of Canada geese are in a wing formation with their right legs raised into an on-coming wind at 12 knots or greater at an altitude of 600 feet flying over Washington D.C." a state of emergency for the entire Nation can be imposed at will...
Might as well be this, but it can be anything demonstrable at President Lancelot Link's "discretion" thanks to the previous "chief" who authorized it and was passed by a majority in Congress abrogated it's own charter giving the President the unilateral authority to act on his own in good judgement and of sound mind of course in the interest of safety, even though the Patriot Act(s) and NDAA are unlawful and treasonous given that there is nor has there ever been in the last 12 going on 13 years of this declared "state of emergency" a set of ratification(s) to the existing amendment(s) under the U.S. Constitution which means they are and have consistantly violated their allegiance and oath(s) office since after 9/11 the passage and "authorization" went into effect!
Are we here yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN1J5sMv28Q
The tyrant, Abraham "Do as I say, or I'll kill you" Lincoln - liked to bugger the U.S. Constitution.
In other words, if and when the US Armed Forces decide that rioting infringes upon any of these exclusions, then the constitution no longer applies and the use of lethal force becomes a viable option against US citizens sometime next week if not sooner.
All this talk of constitution by the "experts".... Here it is, in black and white. (pun intended)
Article I Section 8
"To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"
The militia are not the National Guard as it is part of the standing army which the founders detested.Only the constitutional states militia are to enforce the law. They were supposed to be the barrel end for the constitution until the militia was neutered in 1910- 1918 and became the Natl Guard in order to send them to foreign lands.
Now they can pass all the law they want, and if citizens wish to believe it fine with me but
STOP DESECRATING THAT GD PIECE OF PAPER.
thank you...
Why are the residents of Ferguson broke?
"White House meets with big business to discuss boosting supply of foreign workers..."
that pissed me off--I HATE those fucking never take a breath talking point insistant appoligists --greasy looking robots ---
Translation: When the banker's extravagant way of life is threatened the military must subdue the pleebs.
Simple solution: stop rioting. See, that was easy.
I hope your taxes are raised as part of a ‘Keep America Riot Free” program or something.
Oh yeah I forgot, this is fight club. You're supposed to riot. Carry on then... smash, loot and get shot. It's all good. /sarc
So... what, do you think these rioting idiots are justified then? When a stupid thug punches a police officer and tries to steal his gun, then taunts him and rushes back at the officer and gets himself shot? There's a place and time for protest. Methinks the race riot in Fergusen is unjustified and whipped up by TPTB.
There is the specific situation (you may or may not be right) then there is the principle that even if YOU don't agree with the protesters, they have a right to protest. I don't need to agree with them (I think as the evidence comes in on this individual case, I may not) to stand up for their right to protest. Not loot (that is called vandalism and burglary). But protest. If you give that up, if you do not stand up for others right to do it, you are absolutely and totally subjugated.
I think many are going to violence because their right to protest is being infringed.
If a cop cusses at me for being out and calls me a piece of shit and tells me I can't pass through an area to get home or I will be hurt, well, and I am a woman, and I ain't supposed to act like this-- FUCK HIM.
I have been watching footage of this stuff going on in residential neighborhoods in Fergusen. I feel my anger rise, and I am not even there. FUCK THEM.
And I think that cop my be justified.
Not black and white.
It has certainly escalated from disbelief and shock to outright rage. Rage is dangerous and can be a deadly emotion with no conscience and no direction. I completely agree that they have the right to protest and to make their opinions known and heard. They do not have the right to loot and pillage (their OWN businesses and people, no less!) haphazardly as a form of protest. When a protesting crowd becomes a mob, I think it is desireable and needed to have some kind of peacekeeping authority try to keep the peace. When the mob rebels against the peacekeeping authority itself, that's when things get ugly like in Fergusen, and I have little sympathy for mob mentality - they are no better than the radical Muslims on a warpath to kill everyone in their way who doesn't bow to (their version of) Allah.
I think we are really close on this one. I reacted to "Stop rioting." I don't think it is that easy. All along I have been saying arrest burglars for burglary, and vandals for vandalism. Leave everyone else alone no matter how poorly they act. Fight crime. If they had done that early, I think they would not have this problem now, it would not have escalated this much this fast.
As much as I am grateful for coverage, I am very aware the coverage is also goading this on.
Yes, I think so too. And I agree that the police should arrest lawbreakers, not create new laws on the fly (like don't cross this line, you can't exit your home, etc). The problem I see as I try to view it from the 'peacekeeper' perspective is that when you have the mob change from just random looting and rioting to opposing the peacekeeping force itself, that's the point where we get in trouble. If the mob would allow the police to mingle with them and remove the miscreants (sorry, couldn't resist lol) from an otherwise peaceful protest, that would work out pretty well. But of course that's not going to happen now, because the media and politicians prey on this kind of race riot and us vs. them mentality and tend to enforce the instilled belief that the white (authority) man is oppressing the poor black (servile) man.
Did you hear the initial reports in the media about the poor, 'gentle giant' who was basically massacred in cold blood by the evil police officer? We have to stop this kind of stupid, divisive preaching or you and I will eventually end up in the path of it.
https://bambuser.com/channel/WRH+radio+show
The US Constitution was suspended when the Patriot Act passed.
Thug cops can do whatever the fuck they want.
and the Patriot Act was passed after the US Constitution was suspended (President swears an oath to defend America and its Constitition) vicious circle
Just about any excuse can be considered an 'emergency' and martial law can be invoked -- even if you aren't the one causing any of the problems.
If you bail-in when the SHTF you can be pretty certain the some branch of government is going to come knocking on your door to do a little inspection, or to confiscate your weapons or food, or to haul you off to the FEMA camp. (You improve your chances of being inspected if you have registered weapons or visit the ZH web site regularly). If you resist the initial knock on your door, or if you start shooting when anyone rolls up in front of your house, you can expect a visit from your friendly neighbohood Army who will use your house or bunker for ordinance testing.
If you bug out in a vehicle, the Army will stop you are a road block, confiscate your food, weapons, and vehicle - and still haul you off to a FEMA camp.
The Army will also put up a ring around whatever the leaders tell them to, and you won't be allowed in. As long at the Army does not run out of ammo or food, you can neither resist them or go anyplace they don't want you to go.
Stop fear mongering fucknob. None of the above stated will happen.
It happens in white communities.
FBI, Armada police block roads to check every single vehicle going in and out of Village of Armada
http://www.wxyz.com/news/fbi-armada-police-block-roads-to-check-every-si...
Didn't see that report. My point, the military is going to protect you, these joint task state funded operations will not. Again, I have heard a earful on what our US military will do to protect it's citizens under the Constitutional Laws.
Don't fall into the media trap that you are going to a FEMA camp, just progressive antics. Thanks for the link.
Funny. I missed the part of bootcamp where they indoctrinate recruits into constitutional scholars.
"It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it."
http://revcom.us/a/027/vietnam-destroy-village.htm
"within its territorial limits by force"
Here is a little known secret about that. Read Title 18 Section 7, it defines that territory. And guess what, it says 3 times that it is NOT within any of the particular states :O.
2-9. Laws passed by the U.S. congress include four exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act. With the first three laws discussed below (10 USC 331–333) there is a prerequisite that the President must take personal action, including the issuance of a proclamation calling upon insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably within a limited time. The four exceptions, based on law are—
Wait until Eric Holder arrives tomorrow, then go full monty.
If things ever get really out of control our military will be slaughtered where they stand or sit. 3-7 million expert gun owners, former LEO & military trained , create a legion of asymmetric fighting troops that play dirty and for keeps in their own back yard. Take out one of our very own APCs with a thermite device followed by a home made incendiary. Total cost $10. Destruction of a $5 million piece of Uncle Sam's toy stock. Priceless.
Conventionally our military is the best on the planet. Unconventionally, fighting a civil war against trained, prepared, organized citizens determined to "neutralize" the threat would result in a bodybag count they could not survive.
The real danger is a low level conflict where all out civil war is not an option yet the government continues to "misbehave". In that circumstance - use snipers and good target discipline.
From a Nevada citizen who loved BLMs response to a small.group of armed guys who refused to comply. They are dumb but not insane.
If you don't feed the resisters the resisters get fed by Government, and as a result become ‘informants’.
recruitment
It is not the number of guns, but their application at a particular place and time, that predicts victory.
Shortly, organization, communication, and discipline are more important in warfare than pure firepower.
There may be 10 million guns in a community, but if they are not disciplined and organized to assemble and react, then each of them will separately face the same 100 armed enforcers, and lose to them.
To counter the danger of a standing Army, the founders used MILITIA's.
Militia attendance was MANDATORY for able-bodied men between certain ages.
Militia's were funded and governed locally. And the militia also featured a rotating duty-roster, where those on duty were expected to enforce the Law.
Militia's are legitimate law enforcement (granted, we had fewer laws back then).
Modern centralized Police forces are a modern invention, and would have been viewed by the Founders as a standing Army.
Agreed again, however mandatory participation in the militia isn't necessary.
In a real deal nationwide SHTF event, people from all walks of life will line up to fight.
Fighting pell-mell is not very effective.
It is the organization that makes it effective.
I estimate only 3% are enough fit, skilled, and motivated to fight in defense of liberty.
Fat fucks of America, unite!
Agreed. Look at the heavy losses inflicted on the federal goons by the five point clan in the movie Red state and then multiply that by 100,000.
I'm pegging you as an optimist
I see this a lot. What makes you think those people will be on your side?
ANyone dense enough to have joined law enforcement or the invasion forces of america is definitely not creative or independent enough to think critically about the relentless propaganda he or she will hear.
Bundy should bring his clan to Ferguson and march with Sharpton. What would MSNBC and CNN talking heads do?
And have ol' Cliven reprise his classic "negro" speech?
There's also the Force the Negro down the White Peoples throat exception to Posse Comitatus - al la Little Rock in 1957.
Eric Holder: Domestic Terrorist.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/30/as-college-sophomore-eric-holder-parti...
If you only had real string pulling decision making contacts in the military, then you already know this report is horseshit. Nothing, repeat, nothing of this magnitude will ever surface in the United States of America.
Now head back to your conspiracy site and suck off Trinity.
Wait until Anonymous starts posting names/pics/family/addresses of the PIGS....local and federal....
Then the fun begins!
You mean the media, who drafted a map to the house of the cop? Anonymous is dead. OWS crushed further reputation or fragment of trust. Today, we have a deviation of OWS. Only the skin color has changed. Instead of shitting on police cars, they shoot at them.
Same bullshit, modified crises actors. Operation Wallstreet was liberal hippies. Now we have gang banging negros.
Think about it...Epic failure. Can't wait to see what Eric Holder has to say.
The picture that framed a billion minds, some guy supposedy shitting on a cop car! The moment OWS lost and Rothschild's banksters won. Was it a propaganda coup of genius or not?
Same framed cause, different colored slave.
These famed interest groups will be the first to be taken down. Prediction. 90% probability. Winks.
Ovomit and his demoniacs will hit the "Kill Switch" and shut down the Internet to protect his Praetorian Guard.
Blah, blah, blah.......the govenment criminals will do as they please, when they please, and change the rules after the fact to justify their crimes. As usual.
Enforcing the Consitution means enforcing the parts we don't like. The parts we do like are less needful to support.
With that said this statement from the above article:
"In other words, if and when the US Armed Forces decide that rioting infringes upon any of these exclusions, then the constitution no longer applies and the use of lethal force becomes a viable option against US citizens."
IS AT ODDS with THIS statement from Article 4, Section 4 of the US Constitution:
"Section 4 The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence."
TO WIT:
Yes. When the State Legislature asks for the mlitary, or when the Governor asks (if the legislature can't) then the Army can be used against domestic violence.
That is not breaking the Constitution but affriming it.
The state executive and legislature work for the people of the state, and being trustees of that public trust, have a duty of loyalty to act in their best interests. Any of them can be sued at any time, in common law, for breach of that duty. They become personally liable to a jury of the people, and it only requires a perponderance of the evidence. Breach of fiduciary duty cannot happen within the confines of office, so immunity is no defence.
The police force army or the army army?
Fed Alphabet Soup army, state trooper army, county sherrif army, local pd army?
It's only fair that they all get some!!
What’s a 'funding stream difference' between agencies?
Don't forget Ovomit's private Praetorian Army of conscripted illegal aliens and murdering muscum.
Read the PSYOP section carefully. One way to "reduce or remove antagonistic attitudes" is to separate the men from the women and children. "Attempts to escape will be dealt with by shooting your wife. Cooperate or we stop feeding your kids at a camp several miles away in an unknown direction. Would you like to cooperate, now?"
That has some serious racial overtones to it, especially in the context of "it takes a village".
"US citizens may simply be herded into "temporary internment camps" for reindoctrination purposes".
Just like in China, in Chairman Mao's times. Welcome to the "free world" (lol).
What are the chances that the National Guard is there to shoot the cops?
0%
Understand the game. The constitution is the rule, but for evey rule there are exceptions. Those exceptions are merely stated in words and are subject to interpretation. Watch the meatheads in charge. They will create conditions that fit the exceptions. They will then exploit those exceptions through fear and manipulation. The only way to peaceabley stop the explotation of those exceptions is through the courts. That takes years. In the mean time YOU and YOURS will be nuetralized making peaceful redress moot.
It is and always has been the legal institution as a profession that is directly responsible for the state of things in the US. History will show that it was NOT the political branches, but the judiciary and its systematic destruction of the due process clause that caused the USA to fail as a nation.
Hedge accordingly.
Under what circumstances? none what so ever. Why do you think the Fed was giving all of those military goodies to the police? So they could have an army with a police badge and get the same result.
This is the civilian army Ovomit promised. He'll fill it out with muscum and illegal aliens as soon as he issues his next "executive amnesty order", due out in a week or two.
The Ebonic Plague has impoverished itself and is about to burn down and eviscerate its own Demoncrapic urban plantations.
Don't worry America
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”
? Napoleon
Their mistakes will jolt the large numbers of sleeping sheep awake faster than a cattle prod
The hard part will be to identify and extract 100% of the cancer without killing the patient:
Money Changers
Traitors
Corrupt agents
Complicit agents
Satanists
Communists
Fascists
Provocateurs
Informants
Gangs and members
etc
As I've said with increasing frequency lately: There are many people that owe Alex Jones an appology for poo-pooing his so-called "conspiracy theories", refusing to quote him as a legitimate media source, allowing others to talk him down in your presence, or even talking him down to others.
With respect for Alex where he deserves it. The reality is he is willing to take his huge sieve and dig in every single pile of shit on he planet and when he finds something shiney he sports an erection while screaming see! see! I TOLD YOU! The reality is every once in a while he pulls up some legitimate shit. He still blows it way the fuck out of proportion but he does find it and that is where his value is; to the thinking man.
Like Al Qaeda/Al Nura/ISIL/ISIS - ol' A.J. takes care to never target Israel or Jews.
I figure him too dumb and unstable to be CIA or something sexy like that, but he is certainly making a lot of money to be a gatekeeper for Israel and the Israel Lobby's power/influence.
His christian religion has him splitting his alegiance between his country and the chosen ones.
Actually, it is a dead instrument: the Constitution is merely one of convenience: in the case of felons, crooked politicians, members of the MAFIA or communist party, or welfare recipients, it will be strictly observed and enforced; where dissidents (who protest the cannibalistic money system, or who detail how there is practically no constitutional tax in the country) are concerned, the Constitution is a dead instrument; against dissidents, it will be inquisitorial procedures – as was done against my customers and me.
The only way we can recover our liberties is to duplicate what American Founders did. The trouble is there is hardly an American who understands what they did, or how they did it.
For example, Founders officially declared their right to withhold taxes until government redressed their grievances, and that their revolution was intended to secure this and two other “grand rights”. It is actually a part of the complex of rights known as the “right of petition”. And, who knows it?
(Follow my other comments: click my name, thanks.)
Just when you think the "Just Us" attitude can not go any lower....
"We Are Above the Law Declares County Attorney"
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/19/law-declares-county-attorney/
I know this might come off as a little glib, but what in the sam hell does the Constitutution or "the law" have to do with what the so-called government of the US would do.
Between bankers, MIC transnational corporations and dual citizen Israel Firsters... I begin to think that the US government, the real government, is essentially completely corrupt [makes sense, given its power, and the tendency of power to corrupt], the CIA is basically a criminal cartel not necessarily controlled by the civilian government, or Potemkin government/Congress, and is well... simply illegitimate.
I don't support looting/violence etc. but I do support just ignoring shit.
What if 30, 35 states just started ignoring federal legislation that reachs into purely intrastate matters? What if CA issued its own in-state fiat, with no debt attached at issuance?
What if governors refused to let .gov federalize NG/ANG and joined them, if extant to their purely state militias?
I don't, personally, think the answer is preparing to fight brainwashed, roided out, police-mercenaries, but in simply refusing to blindly or automatically follow/adhere to all .gov edicts.
Protest wise, I'll believe something will happen out of it if occupy, the tea party, and outraged blacks protest in the tens of thousands outside the NY Fed.
As a friend once said to me "passive disobedience is the most powerful tool in any relationship."
Secession and governmental reset is the only way out of this federal mess.
But, it is likely that Demoncrap and RINO state governments won't secede. This federal behemoth is, after all, their creation.
Does THIS Explain the “Snipers” Shadowing the Occupy Protests?
whether or not that article/doc is itself legit, I would simply assume that this government has such a plan in place.
That's why any decent protest will have sniper-hunters, and people dedicated to watching police interactions with people out of uniform.
hedge accordingly. ;0]
Its a link in this post by Zerohedge. Its a real document and 132 pages long. a very interesting read.
Important post and read
Thx
A pretty long article to basically say.......... We're all fucked.
keep a low profile and stay away from crowds. If you're going to do something, don't do something stupid. Remember that a bunch of Afghanis with small arms and IEDs managed to defend themselves fromt he Russians and the Americans.
10 USC 333. When a state cannot or will not protect the constitutional rights of the citizens, due to domestic violence or conspiracy to hinder execution of State or Federal law, the use of the militia or Armed Forces is authorized.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DONT CONSTITUTE THEIR OWN MILITIA AND TELL EVERYONE ELSE TO GO HOME PACKING
ONE MORE THING... Because ... Obama!
They will when the order comes down from Mt Kabbalah that it is go time! on the stupid whitey goyim. till then the inhuman caucasian dogs are the frog in the pot. However whitey goyim loves the talmudic master so fuckin much when bullets start flyin he would just run in to them bucked naked sayin: "I am an inhuman goyim dog please bestow your lead blessings upon me so that I may longer have to disgrace your world with my gentile scummery!" "idiots"
Good I am glad they have the riot suppression and civil disturbance manual finished before QE has officially ended, just in time. Very fortunate timing, because once the markets crash, the layoffs start, and world war three commences, there will be no room for anti-war, anti-wall street, anti-government type agitators and malcontents.
The pieces are being moved into place.
It's really pretty straight forward. If, for example an oil pipeline breaks under a sinkhole under your house in Slamdunk, Oklahoma, we can come and get your guns, look for dope and undeclared cash, and stick a bazooka in your face until you pee in your bermuda shorts! It won't be cheap but a lot of us on the team find it hilarious and the pay is fucking nuts! - Cpl. Stepnfetcher, 19, Oceanside, Ca.
"When the need for the protection of federal property or federal functions exists..........."
so if a single mailman declares he feels unsafe making deliveries in Ferguson,
Blam
its go time?
pretty big loophole there