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USA is #1 once again... that'll teach the cynics. Oh wait...
h/t @ConradHackett
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Making up facts is fun.
Making up facts is fun.
If you are referring to my post which facts do you say I am making up? That the guy was unarmed? That he had his hands in the air? That he was shot six times? That two shots were in the HEAD? If you persist I can provide back-up information to all of the issues I raised . . . . making spurious assertions is also fun too, eh? And a lot easier than saying something meaningful.
Yes, I saw that video taped evidence of him on his knees praying for mercy as well. Sure. Proof. Its on the net. Its got to be true.
You are presenting a scenario, which attempts to make the death sound unjustified and create a victim. Yet, we do not know all the details and it is the sum of all the details that make a case. Unless you were there, you don't have any idea what happened. Though, we are all free to speculate and I must say, your speculation is quite hilarious to me.
In particular, your emphasis on unarmed, is an attempt to bait, considering the size of the man and the lethality of fists. According to the FBI, fists, killed more people in the USA then ALL rifles, including so called assault rifles. Additionally, his arms in the air while on his knees, are the truly "spurious" comments here. Good try though, troll.
I guess I understand everyone's objections to my take on things and appreciate the feedback (where people aren't too lazy to hit the down arrow and run, that is). That said, there are WAY too many UNARMED civilians being abused or killed by cops these days and that was the main point of my comments.
You may not like my take on things but, for the record, there are no trolls here my friend (Orcs, maybe) . . . . I hate them just as much as you apparently do.
P.S. There is no dispute that Mike Brown was shot in the head twice. So all of you that take exception to my comments apparently believe that a cop using obviously lethal force against an unarmed subject is o.k. That is the primary thing I just can't see being acceptable for a supposed "peace officer". For one thing a head shot is much harder to accomplish than a body shot (this coming from a multiple gun owner that shoots regularly). A body shot has a significantly lower chance of being lethal than a head shot to begin with so there appears to have been a conscious decision on the cop's part to kill this guy. Help me out on understanding why a "shoot to kill" policy like this should be acceptable when the subject is unarmed and is 20+ feet away from the shooter.
There is plenty of room for a difference of opinion, and yes cop violence is too high, but so is violent crime. As far as your take on immobilization by body shots, I would contend that if a man were so motivated as to actually charge a cop with a gun (and we don't know this for sure) then being shot in the arm, even multiple times, might not be immobilizing. Rage and fear can move people to unimaginable extremes. We see proof every day. I look at videos of beheadings and find it unimaginable that a person could physically do that to another human. Its one thing to pull a trigger and quite another to saw at someone's neck laughing and cackling all the while. Anyone who believes humans can live in a self imposed utopia should watch one of these videos. As far as beheadings, I would imagine that very few have actually seen these videos and further believe they imagine them as shown in movies where it is the single swing of an axe or large blade. If these videos were widely viewed, I think perspectives might change about the nature of what we are up against. Its a complex fucked up world and most of us are just trying to make it through without excessive carnage.
Sorry couldn't hear you clearly old boy. It seems your head is still up your ass.
mumble mumble mumble
Japan and Britain might be happier places if they could get those numbers up into the teens at least.
In the US the real problem is that the guillotine deaths per year are still zero.
Just like inflation, we export our beheadings overseas.
I bet the Navy guy who was hacked the fuck to death wished he was carrying a gun.
That's only part of the story. They shot an unarmed guy on the freeway not far from my place 96 times for resisting arrest.
But that is what Obama and Washington D.C. set out to do as they support terrorizing the US citizen.
The Brits prefer to decapicate their victims in others countries. Fucking colonial countries are responsible for all of the worlds problems today!
I want to see ther reverse graph of home invasion etc. stopped in these countries by guns. Even that would not be fair because our demographics are different. Move a liberal into a high crime area and tell him to not own a firearm. See if he is still liberal after a year.
assaults and violent crime increased dramatically in Britain after guns were banned.
Really? Where is the evidence
Most likely in the cemetery.
real problem is not a cops, real problem is guys who are hiring them... If they hire and give a gun to unstable humans what can you expect?
USA,USA,USA
This has given me pause for thought. The next time I'm at the home depot and some big fuckin guy comes up wailing on me, I don't think I will use my gun. I think I will just lay there and hope he gets tired before he kills me, and I especially hope he doesn't relieve me of my FN, and use it on me. Its just the right thing to do. Give peace a chance, right?
The former Chief of Police Norm Stamper, in Seattle has turned down many attempts to Militarize the local Police......in fact after much public outcry, drones were outlawed, so Seattle sold theirs (2) to the LAPD
He thinks the events in Ferguson are a big mistake-the PD there are just fermenting violence
"fomenting" violence not "fermenting" - you don't brew violence (although on 2nd thought I guess actually you could . . . .)
Foo tunny, I've had some violent fermentation going on before. It wasn't pleasant...
The U.K. has one department specifically dedicated to manipulate crime. When someone steals your phone it is called "Damaged Property". It is the same with guns.
Get a dam clue
Playing with crime stats in a similar manner is done in the US as well. The LAPD recently caught flak for getting caught doing this, but others do it too.
Holding your hands over your eyes to not see the truth must be an exhausting job.
Saw a pic of the national guard troops in Fergusun, MO - they were outfitted with their fatigues, boony hats, belt with radio and side arms - that's it. Compare that with the "police" that are there with full riot gear, level IV body armor, helmets and automatic weapons. That comparison right there should tell everyone where we are at with our "police" these days.
Well if that chart is for 2013....See this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRKtflyhuec
Should that guy have been shot? YES
How bout THESE guys?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfHukWG9aIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3-1wmHLxis
FUCK YES
That's just three examples, so we're down to 406. I'm not saying EVERY single one was justified, and I'm not defending the ones that weren't. Out of 406, I bet you well over 400 were absolutely justified.
Until you dumb motherfuckers have to confront one of those dumb motherfuckers, shut the fuck up. It's easy to run your mouth on a website when you don't even know that you don't fucking know.
If you hate cops that much, next time you are a victim of an in progress home invasion, armed robbery or burglary, or someone kidnaps your kids, or rapes your mom, or steals your car, or injures you or a family member in a hit and run accident, or lets their pitbull run loose and mauls you, call a fucking crackhead. Please. And let me know how that works out for you.
Given the choice between being protected by someone who would shoot me for punching him and not being protected I'd choose the later. Can I shoot a cop if he punches me? Can I shoot anyone who punches me? Why is the standard different? Is risk of injury part of the job or not? Why do we call them heroes for risking their lives while also defending every action they take insuring they limit the risk to their lives?
Also, just wondering how you are able to assess what anonymous posters on this site do or do not know.
Oh yea, fuck you too.
If you choose to assault me with your hands, your knife, your tire iron, or your curling iron, I will not feel any remorse in killing you.
Its like we are supposed to be able to measure and guage the competency and level of threat that someone levels at us, instantly and accurately. No, that is the responsibility of the initiator. If you take the first move, you are the one placing the bet. Fist or firearm, you have just put your life on the line. Hesitation kills. Any trainer will tell you this and this is also why many resist some people owning guns as they represent a danger to themselves and others. If a person knows you are armed and they intend on confronting you, you must assume the worst. If you fail to respond, they will likely take your weapon and use it on you and anyone else around. We live in a world where we largely have two choices, stand and fight or run as fast as you can, and maybe in that order.
Cops are people and are going to react like people. Good people and bad people. We can lump them all together and treat everyone like criminals are just be prepared, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Bullshit -just look at Department of labor OSHA statistics -being a cop is one of the safest jobs in America-you are far more likely to die in the retail, Industrial, fishing or agricultural industry than being a cop - I was a state prosecutor for 8 years -went in thinking cops needed our undying support -came out with a totally different attitude -
How many occupations require you to carry a gun and be prepared to shoot someone to preserve your life. Yes, there are jobs more dangerous, but even in those jobs we take measures to minimize that risk. For a cop, their defensive measure is a gun, and their principle fear is your gun, be it statistically probable or not. Not everything is equivalent. Most jobs that offer threat do not do so at the hands of another person. Of course, there is always nail guns.
We've spent the last 70+ years hunting down and prosecuting Hitler's cops dipshit. We'll spend the next 70 years hunting down and prosecuting Obama's cops...
Yes, our police are currently engaged in massive genocide and at this rate, with current population growth projections and current cop shooting statistics, the black population will be completely wiped out in about, well actually never. And if you haven't noticed, we are currently ruled by a minority population. So much for a representative government.
Stupid fuck. Show a little brain here.
Neutering ALL blacks at birth would resolve the problem of having to exterminate them later in life in order to relieve the country of the curse of the Ebonic Plague that is destroying us.
In ONE generation the Ebonic Plague would be eliminated from our society and a decent civil order could be established.
Going old school Margret Sanger style! Sweet!
I love it when the thread goes into eugenics.
First question: shall you be the one that decides or are you going to pawn that off on a committee?
I would reply to this, but I am a stupid fuck and don't have a clue. Wait till WWIII starts and we'll see what happens.
I would never had let the guy beat my ass. I would have approached him in a different way. But, when I was LEO, if the guy had assaulted me, weighed 300#, beaten my face in and tried for my pistol, I would have emptied the mag into him IF he did not De-escalate. Once they try for your pistol, you get it away or kill the suspect.
Now, I was not there. But, if the cop was indeed busted up bad by the 300# thug, had one eye out of action and the thug came after him a second time, he did the right thing.
Sorry, liberals, I will not die for your political correct horseshit.
If the police officer was, beaten in any way, by Brown...seems to be what people feel has to be the justification for his shooting Brown. Wrong Wrong Wrong.
No police officer has to be "beaten" to justify shooting someone who is rampaging on him. I noticed they are now trying to say that Brown was just moving towards the police officer, as a way of...once again...justifying Brown and vilifying the police officer.
All males know, especially black males if you must...that you do not advance on a police officer. The police officer HAS to keep a range between you and him. Otherwise it's just a fisticuffs and that's not policing; that is barroom brawling.
God bless this police officer and dam all of you to hell for thinking he had to die by Brown's hand rather than save his own life. Six shots is the key here. The officer could easily have done one to the head as the first shot. The four shots are a screaming statement that he was saying: Stop.
As to the black community, they teach segregation with rioting. Who wants to be around those who will be ca caw ca cawing that you are racist and scrutinizing you for your "racism" constantly?
Good luck with that.
I guess you think this innocent guy in his own house should have been shot too.
http://www.truthistreason.net/video-police-shoot-man-3-times-immediately-upon-entering-house-haydens-note-the-failed-war-on-drugs
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/10/dean-weingarten/cops-more-likely-to-murder%E2%80%A8/
Japan, which teaches lifelong subservience from birth, is hardly a country to compare with.
As to Germany, except for the Arabs who have moved into Germany, and which Merkel called a complete failure of cultural melding, Germany has a single culture and a single color: white. Also a culture that uses strong arm tactics to comply. They require you to send your child to school, no home schooling, or they will take away your child. It remains a boot-on-the-neck culture and society. Ain't no disagreeing in Germany. So again, hardly a culture to cite.
As to Britain, what a joke. Go live there and see how you feel.
While the alarms were recently placed regarding ISIS in the US, it will most likely be Britain where the Arabs have moved in in HUGE numbers.
I have had limited contact with police officers since I drive the limit and obey the laws. Was stopped recently for a ....very rare...ten miles over. Was polite, and provided all requested documentation. Made no quick moves. Suppose every contact you made in your job was the one that meant you didn't go home that night?
God bless police officers.
You are correct about German society. Everything is regulated and tightly controlled and you comply or you are stanped on straifght away. The statdt I lived in sundays were quiet days - that meant no B-B-Qs, all kids to be quiet if playing in the garden, no washing hung outside. If your area was cabled you were not allowed to have a satellite dish or a TV antenna. You could only wash your car at stadt designated wash points - not on your drive etc. All the shops closed at midday saturday and remained closed until monday. All the bars etc were closed on mondays.
No thanks, I'll just shoot the bastard.
My wife's friend had her car broken into at a park in Minneapolis, in broad daylight. Cops took so long to get there that they just left. I think a crackhead may have offered more value in this instance.
Fuck
The
Police
Lol if you live in a place where you have to worry about a "next time" with any of these instances, you should probably just move.
Officer: Sir, do you know why I pulled you over?
Reply: Because you were a C average student in High School?
nosoeawe:the pig that abused his power by shooting mike brown used more ammo than the entire UK police force did last year.
Maybe if Mike Brown didn't lay a beatin' on the cop and break his face (Felony assault) he'd be alive today.
Mr Brown was obviously dumber than a bag of dicks. His mommy never taught him not to punch a cop.
Ya know, when I wake up in the morning, busting a guys face is about the last thing that pops into my head. Silly me, I'm the clown, I just go to work at my business and try to treat people with a decent level of respect (even cops).
What MORON punches someone with a gun? What was Mike's IQ? About room temp? The gene pool is self cleansing and Mike was a turd circling the bowl. His stupidity took him out of the game. At some point ya gotta lay the blame where it belongs. Personal responsibility and all that.....
Cartman Respect My Authoritah - South Park
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx4jn77VKlQ
Live like a thug, die like a thug.
Mike jacked some stogies and wailed on a clerk in a convenience store which, like all other convenience stores, is packed full of security cameras. As a result, Mike's dream of becoming a rocket neurosurgeon will never be realized.
Note these facts:
1. Brown had 100 pounds on the police officer; how is the police officer to decide that he should relinquish his welfare to Michael Brown's good graces: ie, although Brown has already shown an umbragious and combative stance, apparently the police officer is supposed to stand around until Brown decides he wants to cooperate.
What would ya'll have the police officer do? If you've ever watched martial arts then you know that mass trumps all. Brown had mass, and the police officer didn't.
2. The six shots are a CREDIT to the police officer. He clearly could have taken one shot to Brown's head and ended it. He had the presence of mind and great training to try for the arm and multiple shots. As a LAST resort to protect his own life, he shot to the head. Why isn't anyone saying this?!!
3. The response to this situation will drive out the truly good copys like this one. If they are subject to the need for a "video" in order to justify split second, and less than split second decisions, they'll find other jobs. Stupid.
4. If the black community would stop tattooing itself, thugging itself out with Jayz and Kanye, there would be a lot of young black men who wouldn't opt themselves out and would have a chance at a police job. Then there would be more black police officers.
5. Have now heard two, supposedly, conservative hosts say that the police officer used excesive force. I'd like to put them in a ring with a 300 pound guy and say, "Go at it and good luck."
6. The black community has incrementally lost credibility since OJ. This leads to white segregation as a means of self protection. Whites cannot and will not be subject to constant scrutiny for their "racism." And be held to constant scrutiny by the black community...in other words, at some point the black community has to create its own credibility. Rioting and looting create none.
7. The officer in this case should be heralded as a hero. He was and is a good guy. For shame on the black community that they think they've found a sword to use; that sword cuts two ways.
8. Heard Billy Graham say one time that race may be the insurmountable problem. Course, blacks could be giving thanks that they are here and not in Liberia...just saying.
I pretty much agree with all you said except #2. He shot him 4 times in the arm because he was panicked and afraid, not calm and disciplined. But that actually helps to corraborate his story of self-defense anyway.
You think that maybe having a broken eye socket might have effected his aim as well? Even if it wasn't fractured, simply having an eye swollen shut can cause your aim to go askew, especially if it is your dominate eye.
How could you possibly know that.
Because they train shooters to hit the center of mass in the chest, and because it happens to everyone in a similar situation.
The adrenal stress response is well known and understood. At best, good training can make you aware of what's happening and how to cope, but it can't stop it in a real situation.
Repeated exposure to similar events can reduce the response somewhat because you remember you survived, but, training is not reality and the training has to match reality closely to be effective. So. What this means for those of you in the police force, or those taking self defence or martial arts training. You need to train realistically.
For police that means for example, fire, incoming molotov cocktails, bricks while doing crowd control/riot training. That means full power and force application of techniques against fiercely resisting opponents in a realistic environment; on the street, damp conditions, at night with poor lighting. And somehow you have to do it safely because it's only training and you don't want anyone getting hurt.
Room temperature IQ? Hardly, in the summer in St. Louis, probably a good 50 pts. below that.
Sorry for the interruption, carry on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMZg4aeE5pE
Who cares how many folks the cops shoot dead?
What matters is why and how the shootings took place, and whether we're ever going to know as a society that the cops are doing the right thing or not.
All we need to do is bug them all so we see what's going on when they kill someone.
And every time some trigger-happy PTSD monkey with a badge executes some minority for selling untaxed cigarettes, we lock his ass up for murder 2.
The most laws, the most citizens incarcerated, the most lethal police shootings.
Damn good thing we have a Constitution to protect our freedom in this country.
A lot of very good men shed their blood so that this would NOT happen in this country.
So to be clear of what you speak, you are saying that the people who are currently in prison should not be there and YOU personally would invite them into your community.
We got problems.
Too many crooks (in and out of prison) too many laws that most do not understand, too many cops who feel justified because of their position to "do whatever it takes", too many politicians enhancing their positions by spreading fear in the back communities as well as everyone else's.
If I understand properly this is the first cop shooting ever in Ferguson. We should demand justice but also context. The politics of this is complete bullshit.
I would release most non-violent prisoners to make room for the Dimons Blankfeins, Lewises, and the Fed chiefs.
On the next day I would repeal 2,999,900 laws and initiate criminal investigations of all congressmen and procurement personnel in the Pentagon.
Day 3 I would eliminate all alphabet agencies, especially the IRS and raise money through sales taxes collected by the merchants.
Day 4 I would list all government properties for auction that were not required by the Constitution.
Day 5 I would dissolve the union and allow each state to rejoin associations of other states but only by a supermajority vote of the citizens of each. A precondition would be dissolution every 20 years and start over, same supermajority requirements to rejoin.
I would privatize all education and outlaw tenure and seniority as the abominations they are. The ultimate goal would be the absence of all government, replaced by....NOTHING.
Agree with much of what you say...except you want to release nonviolent prisoners and then turn around and imprison bankers...who are nonviolent. just a little confusion there. Our criminal justice system is fucked and I'm not going to defend it. My point is that many of these prisoners are violent and we hear every day that many of the least violent are released. Hopefully you understand that group includes all types of criminality that most of us would not accept in our own lives, so I would reject dumping these people back into environments that many find impossible to raise their children in. Its complex and fucked but if we choose to abandon law because of excesses, will we abandon everything else for the same reason? Sure, break this mess down, simplify, minimize the size and scope of this disaster. Smaller, more accountable government is the answer. But they have created a war in our own country and we are telling ourselves the answer is to disarm. Same as it ever has been.
Sunset laws should be applied to all laws passed by all legislatures and/or law-making authorities in the U.S. This unending, continuous, accumulation of hundreds of thousands/millions of laws is an abomination.
We have a winner!
Keep the lawmakers busy re-ratifying existing legislation. No law should be valid beyond 2 political terms.
as ex MP who long ago operated in an army with severe race problems, in active war zone, day after day with men all armed with automatic weapons and explosives , fear is always present.
in todays america, a cop is told this or that is/are illegal, enforce the law..a cop is told/trained that there are great risks in dealing with the public..us vs them. fear of injury or death are constantly there.
we have so many laws, so much injustice, so much diversity of cultures and races, that I fear many police become numb, or become adrenalin junkies like swat and sniper team gungho man/ children.
their job is not to give justice, it is to do what they are told, and they are for the most part unable to see that the widespread corruption of our laws and culture have led to tyranny and they are now thugs for much bigger criminals.
Agreed. The police need to be a part of the community, not simply an enforcement appendage of the state. People who are part of the community tend to be held more accountable, and that is what is needed. Accountability...for everyone, criminal and cop alike.
The U.S. system of systems is unstoppable. The system has to self-destruct to save the system.
Starve the Beast! Stupid, ignorant, Americans are paying for their own destruction.
Educate yourself. Grow a pair. Join the underground economy.
The U.S. Government has declared war on the American People and most Americans are too stupid and uneducated to realize it.
Starve the Beast.
What the hell is going on in Germany?
I dream of a day with no Obama and Obamanots. Clear blue skies and no "hopium"..real HOPE.
Losing Obama and everything he represents is the only HOPE we have left, but it still won't be enough. The damage is done and has gone on too long. Most of today's pro lens are the solutions imposed from prior smaller problems. I can't wait to see what the next great cure will do to us.
I know of a couple of cops that would have been criminals if they weren't hired by the police department.
Another was a bully when younger. Now he can bully as a cop legally.
Wayback Machine: I had a buddy, "Gus," who was an NCO in Nam. There was a high-school buddy of his who failed to get into the army, who then became a Bunk 'em county cop. One night, on leave, he and I were stopped by army dropout cop. Cop finds 1 SEED from a "pot plant" and proceeds to arrest us. Gus' cousin, Larry, was loaded. He knocked the seed out of the cop's hand (it was dark) and "apologized" and offered to "search for the evidence" if cop would loan him his light. He told us to fuck off and drove away. Gus was a infantry soldier, and told us the cop had always been a pussy. When ever he was on leave, pussy cop would try to hassle him.
I love my gun and he's named "Remy," a french name which just happens to be a twist on the maker of this particular item. I, too, sleep with my "Remy" every night. He's got one hell of a love bite, too. Fuck the cops everywhere; we've never had "peace officers" in this god forsaken country. Just Stasi thugs recruited right out of the us/them military. PROSECUTE THESE GANGSTER THUG COPS - they are never jailed or imprisoned for breaking PC 187, which according to these "voluntary stats," amounts to more than one person a day getting killed by fascist, racist PIGS. Doo doo doo doo doo doo, Livin' in the USSA!
Edge.case:Given the choice between being protected by someone who would shoot me for punching him and not being protected I'd choose the later.
Me too. So much so that after the first of the year I'm moving to an even smaller town with no Police and no Fire Dept (not even a volunteer one). Pop 972
Also, just wondering how you are able to assess what anonymous posters on this site do or do not know.
It's common knolwdge now that Mike the Brilliant One was fighting the cop and was grabbing for his gun. My bad, I made the assumption the poster had a clue.
Oh yea, fuck you too.
No thanks hoss.
I am a big supporter of the 2nd amendment, but I think we should ban most cops from possessing guns - at least while in uniform.
The world over, only citizens should have guns. Not governments.
Just my opinion, but those numbers seem low to me.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of fallen police officers killed in the line of duty. A total of 67 have fallen, thus far, this year -- according to ' Officer Down Memorial Page':
http://www.odmp.org/search/year
It's rough out there folks. Be Safe!
bullshit! policing is not in the top ten dangerous jobs. it is just another .gov job on the dole.
most of those deaths are car accidents with no stats on the fault of the driver. don't get me wrong they deserve respect like any other dead person but they are not special and do not deserve to be.
From YOUR link: Line of Duty Deaths: Assault: 1, Automobile accident: 15, Fire: 1, Gunfire: 27, Gunfire (Accidental): 1, Heart attack: 8, Motorcycle accident: 2, Struck by vehicle: 3, Vehicle pursuit: 2, Vehicular assault: 7, Total 67.
Ahead of the civilians 409 to 27 in deaths by shooting, somehow I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for the fuzz.
Those numbers can't be right.
Where is the death from choking on a dry donut for example?
The Swiss are doing it right. Care for their people, new and existing. Educated and trained. Households armed and they care like crazy for their environment - props Ensilverguy.
The diagram made me look up this data:
The go-to phrase deployed by police officers, district attorneys and other law enforcement-related entities to justify the use of excessive force or firing dozens of bullets into a single suspect is "the officer(s) feared for his/her safety." There is no doubt being a police officer can be dangerous. But is it as dangerous as this oft-deployed justification makes it appear?
In short criminals 33 Vs Cops 409.The interesting data that the diagram is missing is; How many of the 409 killed by cops, were killed by white cops on brown skinned people (in total) With a further breakdown of African americans / Hispanic. That data will tell a tale...
btw, Im British and there are armed response units everywhere now. Phone an ambulance and get told 20min wait sir. Mention a weapon of any sort and you get service inside 3mins.
Currently living in Hong Kong where the cops do carry and I can remember at leats 3 killings by cops.
did you say 409? guess the cops are cleaning up.
Currently, the military service for Swiss men is universal. By the age of 20, every citizen goes through 118 consecutive days of training in "Rekrutenschule." This training can be the first meeting of a young man with his compatriots who speak different languages ??(Switzerland has four official languages: German, French, Italian and Romansh). Even before the conscription begin, boys and girls may have optional courses with the assault rifle Stgw. 90 (550 SIG) of the Swiss army. They are in possession of the gun for 3 months and receive six sessions of 6 hours of training. From 21 to 32 years old, Swiss citizen constitutes the front line of the army, "Auszug", and spends three weeks of the year (8 of 12) to continue the training. From 33 to 42 years, he serves on the "Landwehr" (which is the National Guard); every few years, he has for 2 weeks training. Finally, from 43 to 50 years, he served in the "Landsturm"; this period, he only spends a total of 13 days in military courses.
During a career soldier, the citizen also undergoes days of mandatory inspection of equipment and practice target shooting. Thus, in a mandatory military career of 30 years, the Swiss spend only one year in direct military service. After the low of the regular army men are in reserve until the age of 50 years (55 for officers).
By the Constitution of 1847, members of the military equipment, weapons and clothing are given. After the 1st period of training recruits must save the weapons, ammunition and equipment "Woh ihrem am nort" (in their homes) until the end of the service.
Nowadays the listed automatic rifles Stgw.90 and the officers, guns are distributed. Each reservist are delivered 24 rounds of ammunition in sealed packages for use in emergencies. (Unlike the claims of anti-weapons, ammunition is the only emergency in which the reservist is accountable).
After military discharge, the former reservist is given a repeating rifle without registration or other obligations. Since 1994, the government started to give automatic rifles to former reservists also. The officers also receive their pistols at the end of the service.
When the Army adopts a new infantry rifle, the old population are sold at subsidized prices. Reservists are encouraged to buy military ammo (7.5 and 5.6 mm - 5.56 mm in other countries - for rifles and 9mm and 7.65 mm Luger for pistols) which is sold at cost by the government aiming to practice shooting. The non-military long guns and ammunition for the .22 LR ammo are not subsidized, but have no control sales. The non-military ammunition more powerful than the .22LR (such as .38 Spl) handguns are recorded at the time of sale.
In a nation of 6 million people, there are at least two million guns, including 600,000 fully automatic rifles, 500,000 pistols and numerous machine guns. Virtually every home there is a gun. In addition to the subsidized military weapons, the Swiss can also buy other weapons easily. While long guns do not need special purchase procedures, handguns are sold only to those with a waffener werbsschein (purchase certificate) issued by an authority of the canton. The certificate is issued without problems for all most 18 years applicant who is not a criminal or mentally handicapped. There are no restrictions for the transport of long guns. About half of the cantons have strict procedures for granting possession of handguns, and the other half just does not have any regulation.
MOBILIZATION
If ever a nation had a well prepared militia, this country is Switzerland. The nineteenth-century economist, Adam Smith thought Switzerland was the only place where all the people had been successfully trained in military tasks. In reality, the militia is virtually synonymous with the nation. "The Swiss do not have an army: they are the army," says a government publication. Fully mobilized, Swiss Army has 15.2 men per square kilometer; in contrast, the United States and Russia has only 0.2 soldiers per Km2. Switzerland is 76 times denser with soldiers of any other super power. Really, only Israel has more army per Km2.
Switzerland is also the only Western nation that has completely burly shelters and food supplies for a year for all its citizens in case of war. Banks and supermarkets subsidize this much storage. The bank also plans to shift their gold to the mountainous center of Switzerland in case of invasion. The nation is ready to mobilize quickly. Said a Swiss soldier: ".. Whether we start in the morning, we will be mobilized by late afternoon That's because the gun is at home, the ammunition is at home All young people have guns They are ready to fight.". The citizen-soldiers, on their way to the points of mobilization can stop making cars that are going and ordering transport.
...the swiss model is impressive to be sure but the Vietnamese militia has been proven through the centuries in battle against many, shall we say, worthy adversaries ...... it was mostly militia with a lot of female representation that took on the Chinese in 1979 as well as american airpower during the american MIC/CIA war
just ask John "MIA Cover Up" MaCain, you have a special place in hell for your lies and leaving your brothers behind...... sorry for the outburst just there
An old joke holds that Swiss German Prince Wilhelm Hohenzollern once, while visiting Switzerland, was invited to attend one of the numerous military that citizens of this country are undergoing training. At one point he asked the commander of the exercise: How many men under arms possesses you? He was told: One million. The prince, later Kaiser of Germany, then asked: What would you do if my five million soldiers crossed its border tomorrow? When the Swiss commander replied: Each of my men would give five shots and go home!
Most Swiss still live in traditional patriarchal families. In fact, Switzerland has the lowest percentage of working mothers in relation to any European country. While the rest of the world women were fighting for equal rights, the Swiss were still deciding whether or not women could vote (the long delay in the approval of women's suffrage must have something to do with the issue of civil rights and military service ).
Schools are severe and teens have less freedom than in most of Europe. Studies show that Swiss teenagers, unlike those in other countries, they feel closer to their parents than their friends. The communication between the generations is very easy.
Among the factors that contribute to harmony between generations is military service, which provides an opportunity for all male groups interact with each other. Adults and young people share many sports, such as skiing and swimming. The shooting is another important communal activity, with prizes and trophies often displayed in restaurants and taverns. Every year we celebrate the weekend "Feldschiessen", when more than 200,000 Swiss attend national competitions shooting and consumed about 5 million cartridges.
Home, writes John Mcphee, while his father clean the rifle on the kitchen table, his son is watching him and the child thus becomes familiar with the gun. Marshall Clinard explains that, because of army weapons being stored at home. . . many associated with care in handling weapons activities, practice target shooting, or conversations about military activities, become common in households. All this, along with several other activities carried out in Switzerland involving different age groups, have served to inhibit the separation of generations, alienation, and the growth of a youth culture aside, what has become, increasingly, a feature many other developed countries,. Although these factors represent only a part of the Swiss way of being, they are a part of weight for the low crime rate and the propensity to crime.
Swiss Military suicidal not to return home.
They do not leave home.
He is aware that killed a human being who tried to invade their homeland.
hehe.
Too neutral.
Sometimes, you just have to take a side.
Yup!
Give preference side that let you live.
hehe.
thecrap0n:
English is not my first language and never will, neither of my children who live in Brazil.
Maybe in the next life optarei unborn in Switzerland if allowed.
Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!
I hope English is not your first language, because I have no idea what you just said.
But, in fairness, there are people whose first language is English and make less sense. So, don't dispair.
we're number one, dammit!
Difficult to quantify the number one ...
Obese population?
Arrogance?
The only democracy whose citizens do not vote directly for their candidate for President?
Number one in military spending?
In invade or destabilize other countries?
In control and internal and external monitoring?
The most indebted?
Is difficult. ...
The rest of the world - with the exception of Europe and some countries in the Middle East - already know that the statue's feet are made of clay.
A little more common sense and less exceptionalism would do well to America&Israel.
Actually we need to return to 'exceptionalism'.
Ever since the communists and leftists have invaded our government and political system we are run by third world nation morons.
Far more people in the United States are killed by police high speed pursuits, and wanton and reckless driving by the Police, than they are by police firearms.
My metro police recently had to lower their driving test standards for policemen, as so few could pass their enrollment was falling. Like with ALL government employees, the goal is not competency, it is political correctness, which means "diversity". It is difficult to find a police department today that does not have a high proportion of minorities serving in leadership positions. What we have today is a government work force that has competency as is lowest priority, and we see the results.
Police are at the top of the list as far as requiring competency. What decent person would want to be a cop? Not saying they are all bad but there is little incentive to be good. We have many who have power issues and are incentivised to shoot first and ask questions later to ensure they survive for their retirement.
We are creating a world where there is little incentive for goodness, for anyone. Politics does that.
Are police officers just like the average America? Or, are they bullshit assholes by and large just drooling to shoot you?
hmmmm, how does this picture fit ur ideal??
Typically, the Police divorce rate is high. On average, the large departments are about 70-80 %. http://www.police-officer-pages.com/policedivorcerate.html
how about this personal story?
sadly...80%. I know, I am a casualty. My ex became arrogant, distant and suspicious, for every position of rank he earned. sadly enough...he still tries to police the family even though he left, and he asked to come back, and he then dissolved the marriage thinking it would shake me up. He actually thought that if we got a divorce, we could start over fresh!!! by then after almost 4 years of separation it was just tooo late.
just a bunch of bullies that no one can stand. Most of the 20% who don't divorce them prolly hate them just the same. After the women marry them they find out they are controlling assholes.
Sounds like you need a Mexican-American in your life mama. Move to Tejas baby.
Both Japan and Germany do not have the crime rate America has. But Britain does puzzle me.
The UK police and judiciary are so lax that many petty offenders, including muggers, get away with their crimes dozens of times, and in some cases hundreds of times. Thus the criminals don't worry about getting caught, and so there are hardly any shootouts. The big downside is that the spirit of the country is undermined.
If you are dependent upon the public trough, why would you be bothered by being robbed. Socialism is theft, and robbery is just small business entrepreneurs.
Pull out the crime stats of the ex-slaves and the Meskins, and US crime looks just like Europe.
Actually, it would be much lower than Europe. Europe has its own moslem problem...
Steroids... plain and simple.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. - Master Yoda.
Police live in fear. Its natural that they would shoot those they are afraid of. Its human.
But why are they so fearfull while their counterparts in other countries are not?
They are victims of propoganda too. Even worse, they are trained not to question orders and are told the people are the enemy.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the chumps expecting Return of the Jedi to return a profit - George Lucas.
Fear lead. That's it. Yes, they should fear lead.
Cluelessness leads to marijuana, marijuana leads to cocaine, cocaine leads to political office.
- my observation
I agree with you that there is a reason US police are lunatics. They werent born that way. I'm not sure the answer is as simple as propaganda, but sure thats a part of it.
What are the China numbers? India?
Even USA before and after 12/24/1913?
Subtract the hundreds who died by "suicide by cop" like the knife-wielding maniac near Ferguson a few days ago and there're probably fewer people killed by cops than in Columbia or Venezuela.
Yeah yeah yeah...just....for perspective....
So....where are the fucking numbers per capita out of say....
BOSNIA?
IT-LEE?
NEVER FORGET....THE SAND GULAG OF LEBANON/SYRIA/IRAQ/JORDAN/EGYPT/LIBYA/YEMEN...
AND....PAKISTAN...TRASHCANISTAN.....RUSSIA....SOUTH AFRICA...BRAZIL....VENEZUELA...COLOMBIA?
USA...#1....per capita?
BULLSHIT!
Using Germany, the UK and Japan???
Two got hosed in WW2, and the other went fucking broke beating them both...
GET SERIOUS ABOUT COMPARISONS....
Of course, this is from THE ECONOMIST....nice rag...but a little....priggish.
"Hitherto"..AND ALL THAT FANCY PROSE......my crippled ass!
Do not lose sight of this:
The reason that trolls the Internet are effective is that people still do not understand your game.
There are 15 more used trolling tactics to disrupt, distract and control Internet discussions.
As an interesting example, trolls start flame wars because - according to two teachers - Swearing shut down our ability to think and focus.
And often the trolls spew splitting attacks for people to argue against each other instead of evil actions and policies of the powers-that-be. For example, trolls will:
Start a religious war, whenever possible, using stereotypes like "all Jews are selfish", "all Christians are crazy" or "all Muslims are terrorists."
hehe.
You are right, not all Muslims are terrorists.
But the problem for the Muslim PR committee is that all terrorists are Muslim.
you could have, at least cited gw. sheesh.
Australia, population 25 mil, averages about 5 fatalies per year from police. No clear change since the gun ban in1996. You will see the same in pretty much all western countries.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/30/half-shot-police-mentally-ill
congratulations, the US is more civilized than syria, Iraq, pakistan, colombia, south africa.
Quite an achievement there.
Oops.
Be nice to see a break down, like what percentage were on anti-depressents, how many shot while hand cuffed, shot in the back while hand cuffed ....
Former Ritalin addicts caused by govt. union teachers, big Pharma, and stupid parents? It takes a village.
I think this statistic proves quite clearly that the police in the USA have much more accurate shooting ability.
fuck these lies
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/19/deaths-police-custo...
Easier to beat an unarmed citizenry to death, saves bullets.
(yes we have a police brutality prooblem, doesn't give you free pass to skullfuck a data set)
yes..economist and the grudniag, two left wing rags trying to sell copy.
the latest year was a huge fall for the UK. maybe that's the result of less people watching trash like east enders.
these stats don't show police killed in the "line of duty" and of course, as far as civilian deaths go, only western (usually white) ones count to left wing rags, since information from global policing in the organized gangs that go by the name of "the armed forces" of the US and the UK, in global police force custody of the tens of thousands, or the millions over the last thirty years of civilians blown up in their own streets doesn't bear any scrutiny or sell any copy.
never mind...ONWARDS!
The highest total was recorded in 2003, when 104 such deaths were recorded -> UK
From the article so at a quarter of the population size reckon thats a win for the UK in 2003?
Fucking crazy Germans! Not surprising at all.
At first glance, I thought it was a graphic of the typical anus-size - before and after "Law Enforcement" arrest/interrogation USSA-style.
Whatever happend to Turd Ferguson?
I seem to remember someone - from the mists of times-gone-by - posting here by that name.
war on drugs taking a toll
This site used to be worth reading.
great Reno 911 episode with the cop visiting from England.
That's obviously a statistic about people. How many dogs were shot?
409 what's the big deal? Chicago kills that many on a holiday weekend, factor in Detroit, Philadelphia, Atlanta, LA, or any other Lib city and it's scum killing scum, with a little colatteral damage. Just like Droning.
@fishhockers: just the Darwin effect at work.
That said try these population stats:
Japan: 127 million
UK: 63m
Germany: 81m
USA: 313m
when you put it in the perspective of population, its not so "extreme" is it?
USA, four times the population of Germany. Fifty times the police shootings. Yes it is still extreme.
A lot of this is due to drugs - either the sellers or the people who are hooked on drugs who try to steal or rob in order to support their habit. And a lot of the drug problem is due to the differences in the court systems and prisons. Japan has a 99% conviction rate. In Japanese prisons you have draconian rules such as no talking. Unpaid labor is assumed. Solitary confinement is common. And recidivism is extremely low. In essence their prisons treat the inmates like criminals - and you don't want to go back because there is no television, Playstations, basketball hoops, etc
Japanese drug laws are also very tough and if you get caught you go right to jail and for a long time. One of their most famous inmates was Paul McCartney who tried to carry a half pound of marijuana into the country. The penalties and enforcement are so good that smugglers usually try to get tourists to carry - either by inserting drugs into their luggage without their knowledge, or via blackmailing or threatening the tourist and their family.
Plus I can't imagine that Japan has a sub-culture where going to prison is seen as a badge of honor.
soooooooooooooo what
409 and ZERO GUILTY VERDICTS
if a perp gets within 21 feet of a cop who tells him to freeze/halt and doesnt, the cannon goes off
these dead perps trying to assault cops get instant JUSTICE.....
Street credibility dropping for ZH on this one by over emphasizing the cops role in death by gun shootings. There were over 10,00 Americans killed by gun shootings last year. The cops numbers quoted therefore represents less than 4%. Given the fact that 96 percent of deaths are therefore by non law enforcement, throws a different light on this. Cops are not the ones going around randomly shooting innocent victims. Kooky talk.
They are not going around randomly, but they are shooting "innocent" victims. Officer safety trumps all: if the officer "feels" endangered, he shoots to kill -- Qualified Immunity, negotiated by contract (against the unconsenting public) by the Criminal "Peace" Officers Syndicate, gives them cover to murder. All shootings are considered justified if the killer is wearing a uniform and a badge.
Of the 500 police shootings, about zero percent were aimed at your claimed 10,000 shooters. 99.9% were aimed at low or zero risk targets.
The idea that law-enforcement officers should be above the law is kooky talk.
Good point. As much as I've become quietly hostile to much of the L&E Establishment, I appreciate info...points of view that help me check myself.
THESE NUMBERS AE LIKELY TO INCREASE AND POST COLLAPSE WHO YOU BETTER LOOKOUT! YOU WILL HAVE TO IMMEDIATELY COMPLY WITH ANY POLICE ORDER BEING SHOUTED FROM THE MRAP OR OU WILL EXECUTED ON SITE. YA KNO CUZ THERE IS A LIL BIT OF AL QAEDA IN ALL OF US, EH GOYIM?
How many involve the unlawful / unconstitutional prohibition of certain drugs?
Over 75% of gun violence involves the drug war, destablilizes so many Latin American countries, etc....
“Libertarians are to taking over and then will leave you alone.”
Great Britain
Ethnic groupsJapan
Ethnic groups(2011[2])Germany
Ethnic groupsWhere did you find these stats? There are several million arabs/muslims in both the UK and Germany. .3% Arab in UK seems awfully suspect. I just read that nearly 7% of Austria's pop is Muslim. That one just blew me away.
next time you need a cop then, call Reverand Al Sharpton.
And wait, how many of those 409 were justified? It just says "deaths from police shootings".
i can't wait for the end of the drug war. cops will have to go back yo what they are capable of, writing traffic tickets, breaking up spousal altercatios and single handedly keeping dunkin donuts profitable, oh yea, directing traffic.
the funniest cop story i know is about the guy who sued ,gov because the pd would not hire him even though he achieved a higher score on the leo idiot test than anyone else who were hired. the argument the judge upheld was that the pd did not want officers who were too smart. lol. the epitaph, "dumb cop" has a legal precedent. it can no longer be called an ad hominen because it is true. your logic is a perfect example.
Reply to Besnook:
I remember that case. I am not sure, but I think it was in Connecticut. The high-scoring applicant exceled in every category, but was rejected because they thought he was "too intelligent" and "extremely over-qualified". And the judge upheld the police department's decision!!!
Amazing! Obviously, that judge was NOT "too intelligent" or"extremely over-qualified".