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NATO Releases Satellite Imagery "Proof" That Russia Has Invaded Ukraine
NATO released new satellite images on Thursday, 28 August 2014, that show Russian combat forces engaged in military operations inside the sovereign territory of Ukraine. The images, captured in late August, depict Russian self-propelled artillery units moving in a convoy through the Ukrainian countryside and then preparing for action by establishing firing positions in the area of Krasnodon, Ukraine. Russia's response - "reports on Russian troops in Ukraine are false."
The source of the images is an independent firm named Digital Globe. The images have not been altered or changed by NATO. Additional information has been added to identify locations, dates and equipment. DigitalGlobe images can be independently verified: http://www.digitalglobe.com
Story by SHAPE Public Affairs Office
Image 1 shows Russian military units moving in a convoy formation with self-propelled artillery in the area of Krasnodon, Ukraine, well inside territory controlled by Russian separatists. The image was captured on 21 August 2014. There is confidence the equipment is Russian, since Ukrainian units have not yet penetrated this far into separatist controlled territory.
Image 2 shows Russian self-propelled artillery units set up in firing positions near Krasnodon, Ukraine. They are supported by logistical vehicles which are likely carrying extra ammunition and supplies. This configuration is exactly how trained military professionals would arrange their assets on the ground, indicating that these are not unskilled amateurs, but Russian soldiers. Russian artillery systems like these have recently shelled Ukrainian positions outside the city of Luhansk in conjunction with a separatist counteroffensive to attempt to break the Ukrainian siege of the city.
Image 3 includes two pictures (left and right) and shows a military deployment site on the Russian side of the border, near Rostov-on-Don. This location is approximately 31 miles or 50 kilometres from the Dovzhansky, Ukraine border crossing.
The image on the left was captured on 19 June 2014 and shows the area to be mostly empty at this time. The image on the right was taken two months later on 20 August 2014 and shows the same location. Russian main battle tanks, armored personnel carriers, cargo trucks and tented accommodations can all be clearly seen. This is one example of the multiple encampments that Russia has positioned near its border with Eastern Ukraine. Many of these forces are deployed within a few kilometers of Ukraine, and are capable of attacking with little warning, and could potentially overwhelm and push-back Ukrainian units. Russia has also moved significant numbers of combat aircraft and helicopters to airfields along the border. Russian unmanned aircraft routinely cross into Ukrainian airspace.
Some equipment from these locations is moved across the border and is used to resupply and equip separatist forces operating in Ukraine. For months, Russia has provided separatist fighters with heavy equipment in the form of tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, and multiple rocket launchers. Air defense systems have also been provided to separatists, even following the downing of Malaysian airlines flight MH17.
Image 4, captured on 23 July 2014, depicts what are probably six Russian 153mm 2S19 self-propelled guns located in Russia near Kuybyshevo. This site is situated 4 miles, or 6.5 kilometres, south of the Ukraine border, near the village of Chervonyi Zhovten. The guns are pointed north, directly towards Ukrainian territory (see North indicator on image). See image 5 for an overview of where these guns are situated in relation to Ukrainian territory.
Image 5 shows a wider overview including the position of the self-propelled guns from image 4. Note the North indicator on this image, and remember that the guns are orientated in this location. It is clear that from this location, it would be impossible NOT to fire into Ukrainian territory. This is clearly NOT an exercise; these guns are being used to support separatist forces operating in the territory of Ukraine.
* * *
"Proof" indeed...
* * *
Merkel looking...
- *MERKEL: RECEIVING REPORTS ON RUSSIA TROOP PRESENCE IN UKRAINE
- *MERKEL SAYS EU TO DISCUSS POSSIBLE TOUGHER RUSSIA SANCTIONS
* * *
Russia's reponse:
- *RUSSIA SAYS REPORTS ON ITS TROOPS IN UKRAINE ARE FALSE: RIA
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Or not. There is a report out that may indicate that NATO=US may just be desperate to escalate. It's from TASS, but their word is as good as anyone's these days in my opinion.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/747032
zero hedge.. do you ever think about how many positive stories are going in the world? Also do you ever think how you can contribute positively to the world? May be try thinking about lives of people/families involved in these places.
Better yet, think in Ralph Emerson's terms, try to see if you can give back more to the world than you take in. Or in your case point out everything that's wrong in the world..
Instead of printing senationalist news..try to see how you can improve the world?
Double Rainbow across the sky!~
coming right up!
http://www.hasbro.com/mylittlepony/en_US/play/browse.cfm?N=251+506
knickfan81, is this the best you can do? Moralize your elders and betters with platitudes?
Yes holmes!! Someone has to wake up and question whats going on this shiet website
are you familiar with the classic marketing concept, if it bleeds it leads..do you understand journalism?
kf81...STFU and listen and learn for a year...
You're amongst your betters here...
No point Knickfan81.
You see, until the monetary system is reformed, we are all debt slaves working day in and out for our neofeudal banking and MIC masters.
I agree but by definition.. if everyone strived to do thie part..to try to give more than they take in the world. we will at least attempt to move in the right direction..What is the point of such sensationalized news.. except to drive more trading flows..
For each thing has its price... and that pricewill be paid.
Please review Emerson's essays.
Too late, knickfan81, at this point nothing would convince me that the world is anything but a shithole full of people who would be better dead.
I recall looking at published satelite pictures that proved that saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
If this is the best satellite imagery that NATO has, they have no chance in a real war against Russia.
In unrelated news, there have been reports of Canadian armed military convoys moving into upper NY State but Canada has denied these rumors by saying "It's probably just some guys looking to buy cheaper beer."
Send in the FSA (free shit army). Putin won't know what hit him. 100 million + ..tell them they get a free xbox and gift card to Best Buy if they go.
The pigsty 'leader' is on full panic mode and honking twice a day.
Ok, once again: EU Head of the OSCE Ukraine mission: "no evidence of Russia crossing the border with troops and tanks". (RT)
Andrei Krelin, Russia’s envoy to the OSCE, also dismissed the allegations as untruthful. (Ria)
Next "emergency wake-up call to the Russian invasion" by Nazi pigsty leader or Nato clown into the next two hours. Tick, tock, tick, tock...
[edit] If there were any images/proofs dating back to august, 21, why didn't they release them back then? Not to indict the Russians or something? What remarkable restraint...
These pictures are like the Irak nuke weapons
Constant NATO lies and disinformation about countless Russian invasions. Yet they consistantly stay silent on this!
"Ignoring Ukraine’s Neo-Nazi Storm Troopers"Exclusive: You might think a story about modern-day Nazi storm troopers attacking a European city without mercy would merit front-page coverage in the U.S. press, but not when the Nazi paramilitaries are fighting for the U.S.-backed Ukrainian government and are killing ethnic Russians, writes Robert Parry.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/08/13/ignoring-ukraines-neo-nazi-storm-tr...
Funny how our military satellites have worse resolution than Google Maps.
.
Ok, but so what? You don't have to attend every war you're invited to....
No Russian invasion.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/747032
Defenders of the Luhansk and Donetsk People’s Republics seized 79 T-64 tanks, 94 infantry fighting vehicles, 57 armored personnel carriers and 24 Grad systems
Ukies are getting their asses kicked. The real reason why the West is putting on this "invasion" propaganda blitz!!
You honestly think Russian news is honest. It's about as honest as MSNBC.
When I tried the link to the DigitalGlobe site I got a database error on the tab for the page in Firefox that said "error:Drupal". I understand that Drupal is a popular CMS for site construction but not what I would expect to find powering a major commercial site, especially if it breaks so easily.
But the big issue is why NATO is not using military satelite imagery. I know NATO is desperately trying to rationalize its existence through the Ukraine crisis for which it seems to be the major agitant. Anders Fogh Rasmussen proved he was an uninfformed idiot by his comments on the 23 vehicle Russian military convoy that was claimed to have been destroyed but which seems to have sunk into the bottomless swamp of Western propaganda when no evidence could be produced. The pigeon brains that run Canada's foreign policy - Baird and Harper - are equally uninformed. To have these idiots at the trigger of Western firepower is truly scary.
Because...
Oh for Christ's sake. Of course there are Russian soldiers in Ukraine. They released the photographs of the captured Russian paratroopers, and now some of the families are pleading with Putin to negotiate their release.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11061146/Parents...
Of course, that's not what ZH wants to hear so obviously that news isn't "fit to print."
THERE ARE RUSSIAN FORCES IN UKRAINE. Stop denying it!
The Russians wandered into Ukraine by mistake just as some Americans wandered into Serbia by mistake while NATO was bombing Serbia. The Ukrainians say they were miles inside the border. They have also been caught telling lots of other lies.
2000 years of Russian military history says they wrap this sucker up within the month. Before the fall muds gums up the operation.
There haven't been this many lies told about the position of Russian tanks and artillery since April 30, 1945 - when the last status report was given to Adolf Hitler.
One last thought. If NATO was not a pack of liars, and Russia has indeed invaded Ukraine with regular army units, then the entire Ukrainian assult force in East Ukraine would already be smashed to dust, and Russian armor would be on the outskirts of Kiev. Since no noticable change has happened since NATO claims, then I assume they are liars, as usual.
The NATO gang is hoping mad after their successful coup in Kiev. The success of getting an unelected government to sign on to NATO plans. BUT then, out of the blue, the Crimea votes to exit Ukraine and join Russia. PANIC! NATO ,in that day, lost it's great dream of turning Crimea into NATO's ultimate base of military operations to threaten Russia once and for all. Losing Crimea has set the mad dogs loose at NATO headquarters. To have been so close to getting the big prize and then to be outplayed by Putin sticks in their craw. They want revenge in the worst way. Now that revenge, the total destruction of 8 million East Ukrainians, is also turning to dust in front of their eyes. No fracking contracts for EU and USA energy firms, no missile bases outside Donetsk, no NATO armoed divisions a two day drive from Moscow.
No wonder NATO is beside itself with rage. They lost their big move to make Ukraine a front line state in a war against Russia. Let us see if they are prepared to go to war. I actually fear they are so angry at being defeated, and want war so bad, that they will bring us to the brink and maybe over it. They could get us all killed, and that is a fact.
Jack Burton, your comment is remarkably balanced, well thought out and humane. As usual.
Crimea really is not the great military base you think it is. NATO already has missiles lined up against Russia's border, and there are plenty of launch points against Russian military targets. Crimea is more like a "consolation prize" for the runner-up in the battle for Ukraine's economic center. A lot of the Black Sea Fleet is in need of modernization as well.
Plus, Russia is also lying. I guess those Russian paratroopers captured in Ukraine had just "accidentally crossed the border" according to Russia (meaning, of course, they were "accidentally caught"):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11061146/Parents...
It's important that people understand that these are just superstates warring against one another, like Oceania and Eastasia, or Eurasia against Eastasia, etc. They will both lie, cheat and steal to gain supremacy the world over. If Russia ever gained the military supremacy America enjoys, it too would create a CIA-like organization and terrorize legitimately elected governments just like the United States.
Which is why I don't know why everyone here is so stoked on Putin. He's a psychopath, just like Obama. Isn't that much obvious?
There are more American Bases in Germany than Russia has in the Crimea and the Russian bases have been in Crimea longer all the way back to Catherine the Great. So Russian has as much right to be in Crimea as Americans have to be in Germany.
I don't know who necessarily has a "right" to it, you might be right. Either way, the non-stop drivel here about how Russia is only sending "humanitarian" aid is the most annoying thing. Last week, everyone here on ZH was saying there was NO WAY Russia would be sending military forces into Ukraine. Now, after Russian paratroopers were captured (NOT reported on ZH, of course), does ANYONE take back what they said? No. There's so much propaganda in ZH's coverage of Russian affairs it makes me wonder if there isn't Russian influence on this site.
SemperFudge
It is not a matter of being "stoked on Putin".
It is a matter of being "stoked" on the facts.
In this matter, the US government is wrong, the Russian government is right.
Also, some of us are not so dismissive of US government lies, and do not accept
sinking to the "lowest common denominator" because others allegedly do it.
Nor is there acceptance in this case of the undemocratic and autocratic militarist contention that lying is OK.
You might try going back over ZH comments which cover the many reasons for opposing US policy in Ukraine, from the overthrow of an elected government.
Attempting to present your position as "balanced" because both lie is hogwash.
Crimea is very important to Russia as a strategic asset protecting their south flank. However, by incorporating Crimea into Russia, Putin also gained access to tens of billions in offshore nat gas and oil.
Not to mention Ukraine is setting on one heck of alot of gas that can be fracked and put to use. That is what this is about.
Not to mention Ukraine is setting on one heck of alot of gas that can be fracked and put to use. That is what this is about.
I think we have a winner!
I agree with your contention that if Russia had invaded the Ukraine they would be surrounding Kiev last week.
When Georgia went into South Ossetia, and the Russian Army chased the Georgians back to the gates of Tbilisi Obama spoke with the, then, President of Russia...(not Putin, The other guy). While the President of Georgia was shitting in his breeches trying to get a flight to the West, Obama persuaded the Russians to pull back to South Ossetia.
They also made an deal (Russians duped Obama) to let the US Military use Russian airspace to supply Afghanistan. This accommodated the surge in Afghanistan, trapping the Americans.
If the US State Department tries to fuck the Russia....the Russians can just close their air space to the Americans cutting supply lines. Then they will have to go back to overland routes and winter is approaching.
Obama was an idiot for ordering the surge instead of using Russian airspace to withdraw completely from Afghanistan.
The greedy bastards wanted one more harvest and there will be hell to pay for those poppies!
Obama?
better check your presidents....
Hi President Putin. Goebbels would be proud.
Let's take this one apart:
"The NATO gang is hoping mad after their successful coup in Kiev."
Because nothing pisses them off like success, right? Everyone hates success except for Putin. That is why he is a master chess player. Because everyone else likes losing and are angry when they win, right?
Sadly nothing else you said made any more sense.
"BUT then, out of the blue, the Crimea votes to exit Ukraine and join Russia. PANIC!"
You mean with Russian paratrooper units patrolling the streets, outside every poling place, right? Before you say no, maybe you'd like to re-examine what 'dear leader' has already said - he admitted they were regular Russian Army. How many were threatened/scared to vote?
" turning Crimea into NATO's ultimate base of military operations to threaten Russia once and for all."
Exsqueeze me? Sphincter says what? Crimea, an ultimate base for threatening Russia? Exactly why would that be?
We know what Crimea gives to Russia - a naval base that can be used year round.
But what does it give anyone else that they don't already have? What? A place to fire ICBMs from? The baltics are closer to strategic Russian targets. But if that was the intent, why would even the Baltics be necessary? There were dozens of places from which ICBMs could have been launched at any time since the 1960s and arrived in Moscow in less than an hour. What makes Crimea special in this regard? NOTHING? ALTERNATIVELY... what makes you think they want to fire ICBMs if they've been able to do so for 60 years and haven't???
Oh, yes... the old 'everyone wants to carve up Russia and get some Siberian Real Estate'. IT IS SIBERIA FOR CRISSAKES! IT IS DARK FOR SIX MONTHS OF THE YEAR AND COLD FOR TEN. GET REAL!
"no NATO armoed divisions a two day drive from Moscow."
1st Armored Division - THE ONLY ARMORED DIVISION - is currently in Fort Bliss, Texas. It is very easy to confirm they are there because A) it is an open base - meaning that after getting a pass at the visitor center you can drive around and B) you can drive by the motor pools and visually confirm the presence of the tanks for yourself FROM CLOSE RANGE.
FYI - El Paso Texas is much, much more than two days drive from Moscow, and would involve plane and boat rides.
"They lost their big move to make Ukraine a front line state in a war against Russia."
Nobody in the West gives a shit about Russia, other than hoping that their nukes stay where they are supposed to be, and that they lose this itch they seem to get every 30 or 40 years to take over all their neighbors.
How many times now is this that Russia has taken over its neighbors? How many? Anyone remember Russian tanks rolling into Czechoslovakia when they weren't sufficiently obedient? Poland? The baltics? Anyone over 40 can remember at least 10 Russian invasions and long-term occupations that had nothing to do with WWII.
You know, when you see the same behavior from the same people over, and over, sooner or later you have to realize that it is pathological.
It is not different this time.
This is what every one knows about Russia: Russia doesn't feel safe if their borders are 'their' borders. No! Russia thinks it needs to take over its NEIGHBORS to provide a BUFFER between Russia and the enemy! (The enemy is everyone who is not Russian.)
Except as soon as they take over, Russians move to those foreign lands, and they become 'Russian' ...and then Russia has to do another set of conquests to provide a 'BUFFER' for the first BUFFER.
It is up to you to decide whether Russian leaders really believe they need a buffer state or whether they are simply playing the Russian people like a fiddle to make themselves rich with stolen loot while sitting atop a mountain of dead Russian conscripted children.
For Russia Ukraine has two purposes: 1) provide a buffer. 2) Energy control of Europe by controling the route to the energy fields of the near east.
This is what freaked Russia out about Ukrainian dissatisfaction with them: They didn't get to control someone elses' property. They didn't get to control someone else's energy purchases.
Neither one is legitimately Russia's business.
The Crimean referendum is every bit as legitimate as the Statehood vote Hawaii took in 1959.
Not only did the US military patrol on the day of the referendum, THE US GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO VOTE.
I don't think Putin went that far.
GCJOHN, Please repeat after me, Russia is NOT the USSR, Russia is not the USSR. Russia, since 1991, had not invaded any country unless attacked. Can you say the same for the USSA?
long talkings....
I like you gcjohns.
You are not a troll, you are the real deal, a perfect blend of ignorance and mendacity, well-seasoned with generous portions of imbecility.
9 Paratroupers
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140828/192433939/Russias-EU-Envoy-Says-9-Detai...
MOSCOW, August 28 (RIA Novosti) – Currently, there are only nine Russian servicemen in Ukraine, they are the paratroopers who were detained recently after accidentally crossing the border, Russia’s envoy to the European Union said Thursday.
“I have just given an interview to BBC and their first question was about the number of Russian troops on the Ukrainian territory. I said that nine, they are the paratroopers who accidentally crossed into Ukraine,” Vladimir Chizhov told the Rossiya 24 channel.
It's obviously not true they were the only ones who crossed the border. They are the only ones who have been cpatured so far.
Sadly, I don't believe the rebels are masters of the battlefield, much as I wish they were. Luhansk and Slovyansk have been abandoned, and they have pulled back to Donetsk. Victorious armies don't retreat from hard-won real estate in this fashion.
My take: the rebels are beating the stuffing out of the Ukrainian Army, Interior Ministry, and paramilitary, regular forces. The evidence is there and can't be denied.
But now, the rebels are up against Polish special forces, likely also regular forces, and US contractor mercenaries, and these forces are inflicting significant losses on the separatist forces. The evidence for this is also there.
The forces purported to be Ukrainian regular army cannot possibly be: they are just too sharp, too well-trained, and too disciplined; their armored vehicles appear brand-new, and no one save a single officer speaks or understands Russian. I believe them to be Polish, and it is these forces that are tearing up the rebels right now.
I think Putin needs to do something forceful and bold, and do it very soon. It was a mistake to let diplomacy work, because the US and UK want war, not de-escalation, not peace. By waiting as Putin has, Russia appears to lack resolve and looks weaker then previously believed. This emboldens the western psychopaths, and hurts the morale of the Russian people at home.
Putin needs to throw down the gauntlet where the US and UK are concerned, while assuring the rest of Europe they have nothing to lose by remaining friends with Russia, except the bonds of America and it's funny-money toilet paper.
I doubt if there is more than a few hundred SF on the ground fighting against Novorossiya. If so, they will die just like the Ukies, for a worthless cause.
We must be looking at different maps in different times.
OK Sovyansk was abandoned as a tactical withdrawl months ago so the few defending troops could be pulled back to Donetsk.
But when was Luhansk abandoned? Only last week 200 Russian trucks with aid ran there and the locals seemed very pleased.
As to beating the stuffing out, I think you might have the sides mixed up.
I agree, Puin is in a serious bind. He should have done something long time ago instead of sitting around. USA got him good, he doesnt know how to react. If he reacts he loses, if he doesnt react he loses. He should just say FUCK IT and really does invade and be done with. USA/NATO will keep on obviously lying and inventing stories. As Paul Crauig Roberts said Putin should sit down with the EU and explain things to them maybe even mention the gas they relay on. Time for Putin to stop pussyfooting around and act. But the problem is that's exactly what USA/NATO are waiting for too.
"Reports on Russian troops in Ukraine are false."
Laughed my ass off. Of COURSE there are troops in Ukraine. This is getting silly. Putin can whip everyone up into the pro-Putin dear-leader propaganda fever in the Soviet Union (er, I mean RUSSIA, of course...) but the rest of the world isn't buying it. Who were those captured Russian soldiers the other day? Who are the Russian families pleading for their return?
I call bullshit on this. Obvious Putin lying is obvious.
Correction: NATO Releases Satellite Imaginary "Proof" That Russia Has Invaded Ukraine.
Looks like Adam Lanza to me.
An American, not US subject.
Russia denying invasion by this source:
http://www.infowars.com/russia-denies-rumors-of-invasion-of-ukraine/
Looking at the self propelled Guns in the Ploughed field, there are no tracks going across the field from the road. May be they are self inflating Self propelled guns. decoys like the inflatable tanks and such in the Fields before the d-day invasion. It is the end of summer and harvest time those fields should be full of wheat and such or at least some haystacks. Nice try State Department but no coconut.
And the purpose of inflatable decoys in Russia that incriminate Russia would be????
Why exactly would Russia put them there?
Are you dumb or something the Ukrainians put them there so the Satellite can take the fotos and the State department has their smoking gun....... If they were Russian then when the ukrainians fired on the decoys the Russians Know where to send the drones too.
Am I the one being dumb?
So... you are proposing that troops of Ukrainian government workrers drove a convoy of at least 40 vehicles straight through Donetsk, across the Russian border, and then set up in a field less than 10 miles from a Russian Army base, and started inflating GIANT balloons that look like artillery pieces?
And what, the Russian Army base (you can see the edge in the lower right hand corner of the photo, just smiled and waived, right?
What about the Russian border guards? Same thing?
What abou the separatists, "Ho, hum... Wow, look! It is an enemy convoy with dozens of inflatable artillery pieces the size of a house! Oh, well. It is not important enough to worry about. I'll just go catch the next episode of 'ICE AGE'."
Or maybe the starship Enterprise loaned them the use of their transporters and BEAMED them into Russia? Hmmm? Do you suppose?
NO!
I know!
Doctor Who lent them his magical Police Box!
Er.... EVEN BETTER! Harry Potter, flew them there, over the heads of Separatists, and through the Russian Border Guard on invisible Thestrals!
Or maybe he used the 'Disillusionment' charm to render both GIANT BALLOONS and the Ukrainian military that was carrying them INVISIBLE, such that they only heard an ominous rumble as they passed?
That bastard! He's British you know! Maybe Voldemort got to him?
...Or they could (obviously) be Russian Artilllery, doing what Russia denies they are doing, and from a place that Russia denies doing it.
You are dumb the photos are in the Ukraine not Russian, hence the headline Russia Invades
Russia does have inflatable munitions but I heard they were the big things like Iskanders. You dot the landscape with them and an enemy bomber could waste its load exploding a bunch of balloons, while the real Iskanders are perfectly operable, thankyouverymuch.
Of course Russia sent troops into Ukraine. They admitted it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/putin-will-meet-with-ukrainian-count...
What I mean, of course, is that Russia admitted they were "accidentally" in Ukraine. Right. Just ten highly-trained elite military units out for a stroll in a disputed border region. That happens.
ZH has drunk the Eastasia kool-aid. Or is it the Eurasia kool-aid? I get these autocratic states controlled by warring psychopaths mixed up all the time.
When it comes to Russia, ZH seems to have adopted the main stream media's technique of supporting the narrative of the government, no matter how implausible.
There was a time we could count on useful observations on financial matters. The Tylers that did screen grabs of bloomberg terminals and gave CDS quotes is gone. ZH seems to have been handed off to the FSB.
Greetings to the Russian Army.
Always present in large numbers here on ZH, as always.
Everyone needs to be calm.
As one poster noted, POLES have been caught taking their country's military equipment to the Ukraine to fight.
What is to stop an ambitious local Russian Army military commander from sending his 'boys' across the border for some real-world practice?
Or less damning, what would stop him from 'looking the other way' as vehicles were listed as being 'in maintenance' while actually being sent across the border, driven by soldiers 'on leave'?
Slide 5 is the only one that is conclusively damning, because those artillery pieces - given their location in RUSSIA, the direction their guns are pointing, and the way the border is on two sides of them - can only be firing into Ukraine. There is no where else for the shells to land. There is no reason, purpose, or ABILITY for them to fire those guns from that location while facing that direction unless there are artillery spotters with whom they have direct radio contact telling them when and where to fire.
I am sure that Moscow will come up with a good excuse explanation, that doesn't involve invasion.
Artillery is an INDIRECT fire system.
The people who actually fire the cannons are too distant to see the targets. They have to send soldiers with radios to do that, who have codebooks to identify themselves, and are known and identifyable to the artillery unit.
ERGO
For this gun emplacement, the observers would have to already be in the Ukraine.
So even if you were to CALL this a 'defensive' emplacement, it would be 'defensive' only by the tortured dismemberment of the word because you'd have to have your troops in the other Ukraine for it to be any kind of emplacement at all.
Get it?
GCJohn.And what about Drones? Are you telling me that they cannot be used for spotting? Also, if you were facing a hostile neighbor, would you point your guns away from the border?
Why would they need to be Russians? There are plenty of Ukranian refugees who I'm sure would volunteer. With a little help from the Russians in the form of "advisors" and gear.
Russia also said their captured paratroopers were "accidentally" in Ukrainian territory.
Right....
While all this Russian invasion propaganda is disseminated by NATO and the West, Barry's team is planning the humanitarian bombing of Syria.
The US attacked Iraq under false pretenses, destroyed the country as humanitarian assistance. The US and NATO bombed Serbia for 90 days as humanitarian assistance. The bombing was done without UN approval, killed 1,400 innocent children and violated the Geneva Convention by using depleted uranium shells, destroying Belgrade's water filtration plant, a known chemical factory (to create an environmental catastrophy) hospitals, schools and even ancient Orthodox churches and monateries were not spared. The bombing was so indiscriminate and aimed entirely at civilians that even the "Chinese Embassy" was hit by NATO shells.
Then when Russia sent an actual aid convoy bringing water, food and medicine across the border to help people being murdered by their own government the US and NATO have the balls to say this is another "invasion".
This is nothing but hypocrisy at its finest!
Ua does not exist in its borders any more.
Last week Russia sent in a convoy of 200 trucks.
This week Russia sent in 10 soldiers.
Next week Russia will send in 40.000 soldiers, who will stop in Lviv.
A picture of 4 selfprop-art pieces? NATO calls this Russian army incursion? In my opinion the russians army is not here. There are a lot of volunteers and mercenaries there. But no regular army. Regular army would bulldoze the Ua down to Lviv basically within hours maybe 48 hours.. but NATO talks about some artilery pieces? If the Russians risk the open conflict, then they would do it a hard way.
I think I see some yellow cake there too, look, over to the left of the SAT photo's.
For Russia this is a national security threat on its border. If the US had a civil war inside Mexico with battles raging within 50 miles of the Texas border we too would have a huge military reponse on our side of the border with our guns aimed at Mexico. And if the UN, Russia and China told us to move our military because it looked aggressive we would tell them to GFY. Why should Russia be different?
The US did have a war raging on it's border in the 1840's and it jumped right in, helped the rebels win and then annexed Texas and California.
We invaded Mexico right before the Spanish-American war, during Prez Wilson's administration. Something to do with the wrong sort of president they elected down there . . .
No we wouldnt have troops on the border... Obama would just invite the refugees in
The difference is (at least in the 21st century), we wouldnt probably try to annex northern MExico into the US. IN the 1800s, sure!
If Ukrainian jets brought down MH17 with cannon fire, why would that affect the separatists being provided with air defense systems?
CAN THE ZH WRITER TELL US WHY POROSHENKO/NATO HAVE HIDDEN AWAY THE TAPES OF THE CONVERSATION OF KIEV'S AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS WITH MH17?
Is he hoping we forgot about it?
In this thread: All of ZH swallowing Putin bullshit because Eastasia's propaganda is TRUE, as opposed to Oceania's bullshit, which is FALSE.
Putin is lying, folks. I hate to break it to you. There are most definitely Russian troops in Ukraine, and several of them were just captured (as Russia says, because they "accidentally" wandered into Ukraine). HAHAHAHA!
I'm supposed to believe that these elite military units COULDN'T TELL WHERE THE BORDER WAS? I'm ALSO supposed to believe that these elite military units "accidentally" strayed into a territory when the consequences for doing so include potentially creating a diplomatic crisis and shifting public opinion further in favor of the West?
I'M CALLING BULLSHIT!
You know, I don't support many of America's foreign "interventions" either, but if you all think Putin is just some peace-loving, bong-smoking hippie who wants to usher in a new era of world peace and government transparency, you're fucking retarded.
Downvote away. We all know you have nothing to say in response to this.
You're simply naive. I suggest you read books.
"Books?" Lol. I've read a few "books" in my time, kiddo.
Like I said: you have nothing to say.
Ones you have to color in don't count.
Try reading this then you too will have some idea as to what is actually going on:
http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Chessboard-American-Geostrategic-Imperatives...
You're welcome!
(As to lengthy posts explaining what is actually going on - they're a waste of
my time so I don't bother anymore.)
Again, you can reference a book, but can't contradict anything I say. Nice try.
I'm not asking you to pen an essay for me, just explain to me how Putin wasn't lying when he said those paratroopers "accidentally" wandered into Ukraine. Just tell me that, it's simple!
When I said you were naive I did not mean you were wrong to believe that
Russia has troops in the Ukraine in combat roles. I think it does and I think
it would be crazy if Russia did not. Equallly, I believe on the Ukrainian side,
there are shitloads of Western [sic] intelligence agents, contractors, etc.
fighting on the Ukrainian side. My issue is that Western corporate media
would never report that for a variety of reasons.
My real point is that the conflict in Ukraine is a proxy conflict between
the hostile US elite (including hostility to it's own domestic population
and especially it's historic population), it's vassal elites (the EU and
European governments) over maintaining the global hegomeny of the
US elite.
Well, obviously. I only made the point I made because so many people here are saying America is "lying" about Russian troops being present in Ukraine, which, as you stated, isn't true. Also, there are many people who said America is just inventing evidence of Russian presence in the region, which isn't true either. Everyone seems to think America is lying and Putin is telling the truth. I am saying BOTH are telling lies, fighting wars, and impoverishing citizens for the benefit of a tiny elite group of Americans and Russians.
All the same, thanks for responding.
You can't say that BOTH are telling lies if you want your words not to be wasted.
Most people are too frightened to imagine that, maybe, no-one is wearing a white hat.
So even with direct and incontrovertible evidence that they are both bad, bad, men, people will invent a reason to think that one is the 'good' guy.
"This entire episode seems to be a manifestation of the keen disappointment that Uncle Sam felt when Russia started refusing to play ball with the Anglo-Americans in any number of areas, from dissidents to global economics. In some ways this can be seen as the last gasp of the extended British Empire, with America and France on board along with the usual suspects.
The Yanks keep waving the NATO flag, but the Russians call that coalition FUKUS: France, UK, US. Of note is the absence of Germany in that analysis. Germany is a pivot point.
There is certainly a difference of opinions and interests. China is quiet, but I think we know where they are likely to be positioned. If you understand the moves on both sides within the context of the currency war things make quite a bit more sense than otherwise.
This is not to say that Russia and China are the 'good guys' in this, not one bit. I tend to see this as competing power blocs, or crime families if you will. I don't see much altruism or activity on the moral high ground by anyone. We live in a particularly self-centered and cynical time.
What we are seeing in so many areas at once is an extension of philosophy and objective expressed in The Project for the American Century, and a fairly cynical one at that. The neo-cons will work with extreme jihadists in the Mideast and crypto-fascists in Eastern Europe.
Big Money and the will to power have no loyalties except to themselves and will gladly fight to the last drop of your blood. I don't see many good actors in this scenario on either side."
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/nav-premiums-of-certa...
It is not as if there is a line on the ground, like there is on a map, that says 'RUSSIA' on one side and 'UKRAINE' on the other.
It is not as if there were satellites broadcasting signals overhead that special Russian military devices - lets make up a term 'Global Positioning System' - could have used to know their precise location even without a line on a map.
And even if such technology did exist, it is not like every 10-year-old in the west has one such device, and every 7-year-old in Russia has two.
Cause if any of that stuff existed it would simply be impossible to believe that even the most drunken elite airborne spetznaz soldier would be able to walk 30 miles off course (about 6 hours marching, straight line, in ideal conditions) without noticiing he'd crossed the border.
Never was miles, claim was km.
before that not one proof where it happened, just what Ukr mouthpiece claimed...
Is it important to you?
better worry about your own country.
NATO's raison d'etre ended with the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of communism in the Eastern Block
and the dissolution of the USSR. It should be disbanded with immediate effect.
NATO's only reason for existence today is as a tool of a hostile US elite attempting to
maintain global hegemony.
Go Angela Merkel!
Merkel is going nowhere without been told so by her puppet-master.
Sorry for spoiling some illusions here.
I should hope so too!
http://rt.com/op-edge/183328-minsk-wales-germany-key/
Actually....
The Pentagon tried to empty out the bases in Germany in the early 1990's. It was part of the draw down.
Helmut Kohl's administration opposed the idea. They were firstly afraid of the local economic impact, and secondly worried about stability during the re-integration of East Germany.
I won't believe it until Colin Powell comes out of retirement to tell us his buddy "Curveball" is back on the job and we're good to go. #B2CAD7
Looks Like Hillary Clinton's "RESET" in Russian relations was a reset for the worst.....gawd that bitch really is the face of death. First she destabilized Syria, then Libya, then the Ukraine. How much death is enough for the progressives usurpers occupying the FEDGOV?
Will the world do nothing while these bloody progressive murderers warm up to a WWIII body count in the multi-millions?
Time to ARREST the progressive criminal lawbreakers and prosecute them before they commit murder on a scale never before seen.
Grimaldus
Putin: Russian paratroopers were "accidentally" in Ukraine, just taking a stroll and got lost.
ZH: WE BELIEVE YOU, DEAR LEADER!
Tell us what you believe about the unreleased Kiev ATC tapes.
Shill
and the several hundred Kiev troops captured inside Russian territory?
lost or deliberate invasion?
we now are in the Denouement of the pax americana tragicomedy
The world is lucky to have the US and NATO
around to stop military invasions by foreigners.
...
...
never mind.
Why is it assumed that Russian separatist lack the military and technical skill to man and operate mobile artillery and antiaircraft systems? Weren't some of these rebels once members of the Ukrainian Army? Didn't they seize weapons depots in these breakaway republics? Isn't this similar to the newly created Confederate Army seizing Federal armaments throughout the South? even though they were only rebels, the Confederates were more than capable of putting up a strong defense using captured US government weapons.
Have you heard of the Russian volunteers?
Because technical skills without a big ammunition supplier make nothing but old war stories.
If you've ever lived around or worked around tracks you understand that they BREAK DOWN A LOT.
It you lined up 40 BRAND NEW tanks and then decided to drive them for ONLY 40 MILES on a NICE SMOOTH ROAD only somewhere between 32-35 of them would arrive at the destination without incident. 5-8 wouldn't make it without maintenance.
One or two would need a mechanic, or serious recovery equipment, and the rest would finish the road march after doing some basic mainenance that the crew itself can do.
TRACKS RATTLE THINGS APART. It is the vibration that does it.
Capturing tanks doesn't let you use them. Having a gigantic logistics tail is what lets you use tanks.
ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has proposed that the 'separatists' have any logistics to speak of.
I understand your point, but these aren't uneducated guerrillas hiding in remote mountain regions. These are more organized rebels who've formed provisional governments, and have control of fairly large urban areas. Is it crazy to assume that within these cities there are facilities and people to maintain armored vehicles? Couldn't they have seized military depots containing spare parts for the military equipment they do have? I find it hard to believe that such capabilities only exist in Kiev.
Many older guys Vets and other..Ukr that served Soviet Army and other services
Afghantsy, Chechnya and other conflicts..very much experienced
you can see it in the faces
now more young are join up but was much mature men when fight was firstly
Damnit, the ruskys got zh? (no literally, guffaws ensue) Now I know where all the good posts have been, all the bullies went, and don't forget the greenbacks this very nation worships.
Here's an account of how the first Iraq War was set up. Nothing much has changed, but the sooner we get an understanding of how the Rulers of Evil operate, the more immune we will become to their manipulations: http://www.tuppersaussy.com/museum/html/writings/articles/cheney.html
You won't need no satellite image proofs when Putin decides he has no other choice but to nuke some western states (and there is no one to stop him if he chooses to do so). You think you are dealing with the Big brother, NSA, bankster-sponsored wars etc and think this is the worst thing that can happen. Just watch what an out-of-control man with a nuke can do to the world.
A defensive first strike seems reasonable. Except for the results.
Putin isn't crazy. It would be more likely that a false flag in the US is blamed on Russia in order to start a war. The nuts are running the nut house in the US. Power mad SOB's.
Power mad SOB's is right.
The problem is that they are not just in DC. They are also in Moscow, London, Berlin, Paris, Damascus, Cairo, and in every capital you might imagine.
As soon as they become the Capitols of nation-states these places become roach-motel's for sociopaths.
I looked some of this up on google maps. The maps are done by Digital Globe in color. Image 4 says the guns are pointed north towards Ukraine near Kuybyshevo. Problem is at that point on the map Ukraine is south from Russia. I think this is all BS.
The shell is taking the long great circle route. Why do you think they are called "sneaky fucking Russians" in the movies.
Oh yeah?
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Russia,+Rostov+Oblast,+Kuybyshevo&hl=en&l...
How do you figure? Looks to me like the only things south of there are Rostov-Na-Donu, The Sea of Azov, Krasnodar, and then the Black Sea.
I...I think I need a drink.
UKRAINE FOR DUMBY'S
CIA SUPPORTED OVERTHROW OF AN ELECTED GOVERNMENT
CIA SUPPORT PUPPETS INSTALLED AS NEW GOVERNMENT
NEW GOVERNMENT ATTACKS EASTERN UKRAINAIN CITIZENS
REBELS= CITIZENS THAT DON'T WANT NEW GOVERNMENTS PUPPETS GOVERNING THEM
UKRAINE IS A NON-NATO MEMBER
ZH MEMBERS= SICK OF ALL THE LIES COMING FROM KIEV, NATO, AND THE WH
MH17 SHOOT DOWN BY NEW PUPPET GOVERNMENT-FALSE FLAG EVENT
Sure,
Outlawing Ukrainian in the Ukraine for 200 years had nothing to do with it.
Killing of HALF THE POPULATION - within living memory of some of the residents? Naw. Nothing to do with it.
Turning off the gas at every disagreement. NOPE! That is a totally separate issue. There is no Ukrainian resentment for that!
Jailing Ukrainian politicians that stand up to Russia? No, if the Ukrainians were sensible, they'd thank the Russians for that and ask them to take the rest off to jail too.
Poisoning any prominent Ukrainian who had the audacity to announce anything other than total submission to Russia? Nope. Everyone in Ukraine loves Russia. The rest are CIA or Nazi's.
That's why in Russia you have Ukrainian jokes rather than Pollock jokes.
Russia dictating how much Ukraine can charge for Energy transport, demanding permanent manned army bases inside the borders, and dictating where when and for whom Ukrainian workers can work, and the procedures they must use to expatriate? Nope. That has nothing to do with it.
Because everyone would love to be treated in such a manner, right?
the problem is not with Kiev-region Ukrainians wanting to have or having their own government.
the problem is with the Kiev government conducting a military offensive to conquer the populations of other regions that do not want to be ruled by Kiev and its Ukrainian extremists (nor by EU-NATO-IMF).
ignorant post
"The Phony Litvinenko Murder" William Dunkerley
I will not waste my time on rest of your bad postions.
You know nothing about these subjects.
Media dumb you down much?
Who runs the CIA? Bill Ayers schooled obombatron progressives do so you know the stacks of corpses is gonna get deep. Nobody murders more than big government leftists as history proves.
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM
BIG GOVERMENT=BIG MURDER
Grimaldus
Make sure everyone reads up " Operation Northwoods" ( wikipedia ). Not a conspiracy theory. An admiited conspiracy, and a deadly one. 'Twas ever thus and ever thus will be'
There are these scenarios, yes. There is also a scenario that Putin is a lying bastard, from the beginning. Look at a country like Finland, not in NATO, but floating in public about joining NATO. They don't do this or consider doing this, without coming to the conlusion that they don't buy what Putin is selling.
Dudes, I live in Russia. Since 24th-25th of August tens of bodies in coffins and injured paratroopers have been arriving to Russia daily. Funerals happen daily. The Ministry of Peace says they've been injured and died in "drills". Youtube and Russian media is full of appeals of soldiers' mothers to bring their boys home. In Russia there is almost no official denial we are engaged in the outright war in Ukraine. All this "about face" shit is meant for the West. If you don't believe me just watch what'll happen next. Things will get worse and worse until the West replies in full force. Just watch.
When "the West replies in full force" it will be proof that Russia has been at war in Ukraine?! With proof like that you could even convince Kerry!
You need to follow Putin for a more considerable time to be able to make something of what is going on. Everything he does is a TEST. For the West. He is constantly trying to find the boundaries of permissible. He will be doing tougher and tougher things until he is stopped. Simple as it is.
If Russia really was involved in Ukraine, Kiev itself would be under threat and the likes of Yats & Poroshenko would be desperately booking flights to Israel.
"booking flights to Israel" indeed! I damn near sioiled myself reading your comment. Thanks.
They will have to book those flights in Prague. Ukraine is no fly zone for El-Al! Is Mayasian Air still flying over war zones?
They have private jets. Probably US taxpayer funded. Part of Nuland's Cookies-n-LearJets plan for Ukraine. Cookies for the sheep and Learjets for the Israeli-oligarchs.
Everything aside you might want to think of the following:
1) Obama catches a berserk virus and decides his mission is to extinguish humanity. Does he have technical means (think checks and balances) to do so?
2) Putin catches a berserk virus and decides his mission is to extinguish humanity. Will there be anyone around to stop him?
Digital Globe?
Wasn't that the outfit that produced Obama's birth certificate?
Seems their 'skills' haven't improved in the interim.
no need for NATO to alter
or change the images.
As we know from their
MH-17 images,
DigitalGlobe supplies
an excellent "finished"product
Russia's Permanent Representative to the UN Vitaly Churkin called on the Security Council to urge United States to stop interfering in the affairs of other states.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&...
You, western people, badly need to pay your attention (if you want to survive) to the fact that every human is prone to making judgements and act based on his experience and MENTALITY. I bet you won't like Putin's mentality when he feels he has no other choice but to act.
The result - one at the site in the territory of the Russian Federation, and two in the territory controlled by the Ukrainians.
http://i.imgur.com/BZeCttJ.jpg
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=47.412915&lon=39.228069&z=17&m=b
http://icdn.lenta.ru/images/2014/08/28/19/20140828193056648/pic_f0094c45...
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=48.400211&lon=39.621559&z=17&m=b
https://twitter.com/FT/status/505017786595540992
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=48.373499&lon=39.709096&z=15&m=h
Good detectiove work.
The Wikimapia satellite ground photos are stunning, clear and in colour.
Clearly Wikimapia pays better money than NATO as both are supplied by Digital Globe
Something smells wrong here, first no military satellite photos, second no embedded time/place data, third low res in b/w.
Its almost like they feel they have to sy something but have to hide what they are saying.
kowalli,
close but picture 1 is here
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=48.362729&lon=39.692702&z=17&m=h
picture one is upside down (North to the bottom), the map is the right way up.
That picture is definitely in Ukraine
Is ZH now actually a sister site to Above Top Secret, or are that many Russian moles posting here.
"can't tell if stupid, or just really stupid"
The third choice, comrade.
ZH is a Multi-Opportunity Fight Clup Format.
Moles, Voles and Trolls of many walks of life show up here from time to time.
Possible nuclear meltdown in Ukraine in the near future?
The Jews are desperate to cut Russia out of the seaport in Crimea and in Syria.
Lying is what they do, always and forever.
"The Jews are desperate to cut Russia out of the seaport in Crimea and in Syria."
It's not the Jews, it's oil and natural gas interests.
I agree, basically, but you might want to look into Leviathan and that pipeline Iran wanted to send through Iraq into Syria to sell gas to Europe and beyond...
Think they want competition?
FXD:Dudes, I live in Russia. Since 24th-25th of August tens of bodies in coffins and injured paratroopers have been arriving to Russia daily. Funerals happen daily. The Ministry of Peace says they've been injured and died in "drills". Youtube and Russian media is full of appeals of soldiers' mothers to bring their boys home. In Russia there is almost no official denial we are engaged in the outright war in Ukraine. All this "about face" shit is meant for the West. If you don't believe me just watch what'll happen next. Things will get worse and worse until the West replies in full force. Just watch.
Sure sounds like Europes problem to me. What was that stuff written about foreign entanglements about 200 years ago?
Fcking A dude!
I'm no longer wasting time with this subject. Those over there have to sort out their problems.
WE HERE need to close our borders and protect OUR OWN country, using whatever resources we have.