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These Clowns Are Dragging Us Into War
From Raúl Ilargi Meijer of The Automatic Earth
Jack Delano Workman at Chicago & North Western repair shops, Chicago, IL Dec 1942
These Clowns Are Dragging Us Into War
In 8 weeks, on October 26, there are – supposed to be – parliamentary elections in Ukraine. What’s that going to look like? Who’s going to vote? In the presidential elections a few months ago, most of east Ukraine did not vote. How many different ways are there to define democracy and still remain credible?
In an interview today on Russian Channel 1, Vladimir Putin commented on the upcoming elections: “All the participants in the electoral race will want to show how cool they are; Everyone will want to show they are strongmen or strongwomen, and as the political struggle sharpens it is hard to expect anyone to seek a peaceful resolution and not a military one.” That would seem to be an accurate prediction.
The EU yesterday (in yet another definition of democracy) picked its new president. They chose Polish PM Donald Tusk, which may seem a bit strange since Tusk doesn’t speak a word of either English or French, and he comes from a nation that is not even in the Eurozone, yet he will now now get to chair meetings that concern the euro. But Tusk is a hawk on Russia, and therefore suspiciously convenient to the inner core of Washington and Brussels’ control apparatus. He’s said more bad and ugly things about Russia and Putin than just about anyone recently, and that’s saying something.
The US and EU have worked for years to see their desire to take over Ukraine come to fruition. They’ve come a long way, but they wanted Crimea and the Donbass region most of all, and those they still don’t have. Still, they’ve so far shown themselves more than willing to assist first in killing thousands of eastern Ukrainians to get what they want, and now they are prepared to start a war over it.
The well-prepared, built-up step by step, storyline in the western press is the threat of Russia’s expansionary drift. Hence this Reuters piece:
Polish President Warns Germany Of Putin’s ‘Empire’ Ambitions
Polish President Bronislaw Komorowski said that Vladimir Putin is trying to build a new Russian empire for Moscow and that the region now had to choose whether it wanted “a Cossack Europe or a democratic one”. “Russia has carried out an invasion in Ukraine,” the Polish head of state told German public radio. Komorowski said Putin was quite open about his ambitions to “rebuild the empire”. The Polish president is an ally of Prime Minister Donald Tusk. “I hope Germans are sufficiently mindful of what a Soviet empire meant for Europe,” Komorowski told Deutschlandradio Kultur and Deutschlandfunk, warning against any reprise of the pre-World War Two “appeasement policy of yielding to Hitler”.
That’s the kind of thing where I go: Huh? Did I see that right? You try to scare the Germans by referring to a Russia that by now has been history for almost 25 years, a Russia that was instrumental in saving Europe from the Third Reich and lost 20-30 million people in the process, by reminding them of an 80-year old policy of appeasement to Hitler? The Germans?
When we look at what has actually happened over the past decade, and what we can prove when it comes to expansion drift, that is without a doubt a painfully hollow story. Since what we actually do know, what is not mere conjecture, is that it has instead been the west, through NATO, that has been in expansion mood.
Despite solid agreements not to move NATO’s borders eastward, the alliance has done nothing but move east, and is now planning to put even more troops and new army bases right on Russia’s doorstep. The narrative to justify this NATO expansion that breaches those former agreements, which we can see time and again, is that Russia is moving west, for which there is no proof, only accusations, and that NATO territory is inviolable, but Ukraine is not a NATO member.
No NATO territory is under threat of being violated, other than inside the narrative. Moreover, while voices in Europe increasingly claim that the threat to Ukraine is a threat to Europe (i.e. the EU), Ukraine is no more an EU member than it is a NATO member. Brussels seems to want it to be, but that’s where the narrative ends. So it’s simply being changed on the fly and has now become: “Ukraine is fighting a war on behalf of all Europe”, according Lithuanian leader Dalia Grybauskaite.
Which is where I think: really, Ukraine has killed over 2000 of its own citizens ‘on behalf of Europe’?
The entire conflict could be solved in a heartbeat if Kiev would simply tell the Donbass leadership that they can be autonomous. But that’s not what Poroshenko wants, or Yatsenyuk, and certainly not Washington and Brussels. Because the Donbass is by far the richest region in Ukraine. Which however happens to be home to people who don’t want to be ruled by the present Kiev leadership. Well, so you kill a bunch of them and instill fear in the rest, right?
Putin had something to say about that too, first in Agence France Presse’s version of his Channel 1 interview:
Putin Urges Ukraine ‘Statehood’ Talks
Russian President Vladimir Putin today sharply raised the stakes in the Ukraine conflict by calling for the first time for statehood to be considered for the restive east of the former Soviet state. Mr Putin’s defiant remarks came just hours after the EU gave Moscow – which the bloc accuses of direct involvement in the insurgency – a week to change course or face new sanctions. “We need to immediately begin substantive talks… on questions of the political organisation of society and statehood in southeastern Ukraine … ”
And then the way RT reported it:
Putin: Impossible To Say When Political Crisis In Ukraine Will End
The devastated infrastructure of the southeast requires full repair otherwise people might just freeze to death, he said. “It looks as if only Russia cares about that. The first most essential condition is to stop combat operations and begin reconstruction of the infrastructure, replenish inventories, do the necessary repairs and scheduled maintenance to be ready for the cold season.” [..]
Russian President Vladimir Putin has called on Kiev to start substantial talks on deescalating the crisis in eastern Ukraine. He added that it’s an illusion to expect that the rebels would calmly watch their homes being destroyed. “We have agreed on a plan, so its realization must be pursued,” Putin told Channel 1 TV, adding that the Ukrainian government “must immediately start substantial talks – not a technical discussion – on the political organization of society and the state in southeast Ukraine so that the interests of people who live there are protected.” The plan, according to Russia’s leader, puts negotiations at the center of the peace process.[..]
Commenting on the new batch of sanctions against Russia threatened by western countries, Putin advised his counterparts to think again about what they are advocating. “What are the so-called European values then? Support for an armed coup, suppression of opponents with armed forces – so these are ‘European values’? I believe our colleagues should be reminded of their own ideals … ”
In the meantime, the rumors and allegations don’t just continue, they get stronger. Evidence hasn’t been a factor is this game for a long time, and it is not now. Just today, I’ve seen 2 Russian ladies who say 100 Russian troops died in a battle earlier this month, Kiev claiming that Russian tanks ‘flattened’ an entire village, and Ukraine soldiers saying their comrades who were given safe passage after being trapped, were shot at.
It just never stops, or so it seems. We’ve been subject so far to a tsunami of allegations and accusations, and 99%+ of them have come with zero evidence. But now we risk being pulled into a outright war despite the lack of evidence. Really, it’s come to this: we’re asking for just one piece of evidence for all the accusations we’ve been made party to. Just the one!
Essentially, the western leadership is saying that if the ‘Donbass rebels’, and Russia, won’t let the Ukraine army do just what it wants in east Ukraine, there will be war. But it’s not our leaders who are going to be the boots on the ground. And because Obama has pledged no US military involvement in Ukraine – though CIA, Blackwater and who knows who else, are present anyway -, it will have to be European boots on the ground in Ukraine.
Perhaps prior to the official war declaration our politicians and media can tell us where the remains of the BUK rocket are that’s alleged to have downed MH17, where the contents are of the black boxes, and where the Air Traffic Control conversations with the pilots are which were allegedly confiscated by the Ukraine secret service on July 17.
It’s perhaps hard to remember due to the misinformation tsunami, but the MH17 has been a major driver of the western public’s anger vs Russia, and their acceptance of sanctions and other decisions, and now the threat of war. While it still may just as well not have been the Donbass rebels who shot that plane, but the Ukraine army, or Blackwater or the CIA. We simply don’t know.
The west says that the war in east Ukraine is caused by Russia’s support for the rebels. Just like the overriding narrative today is that the west reacts to what Russia does, while in reality it’s the other way around.
The entire Ukraine conflict could be resolved tomorrow morning if Kiev, and its western support, would pledge to stop waging war on the Donbass. And give it a separate status, either within Ukraine or in a separate state. After half a year+ of warfare, how else could you resolve this crisis? Only through more bloodshed, that’s how.
But our western leadership is simply too trigger happy for comfort. Based on only hints and allegations. There’s a NATO conference in Wales this week; Obama, Merkel, they’ll all be there. I suggest you just watch and listen what comes out of that. It won’t be pretty. Peace will not be a commonly used term there. While for all of us, and all the civilians in the Donbass, that’s all we want.
But these clowns are dragging us into war. And yes, maybe it would be a good idea for you to tell them that you don’t want them to. Before your kids, or their friends, their neighbors, start dying in some far away ugly theater they should never have been part of.
Is peace impossible in Ukraine today? No. Not at all. But it is as long as the west keeps its hopes for conquering the Donbass alive. It should have known that from the start, and perhaps it did, and started this crusade anyway, because the grand prize it’s after is Russia itself. Over our dead bodies.
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do you seriously believe the bs that your spouting????
Fact check: Ukrainians are about as corrupt as they come. With the tacit support of the west one corrupt regime was replaced with another one, only that now they have fully pissed off their Russian neighbours. Now deal with the consequences.
How many mercs do the US and EU have in Ukraine? Why are tptb trying to start a major war with Russia? You claim Russia is the aggressor, but with the forces they have concentrated on the border they could easily defeat the Ukrainian forces, so why haven't they done so? A few weeks ago the US gov claimed separatist and or Russians shot down mh17, now it is confirmed that NATO sources sent mh17 on its course and that Ukrainian forces shot it down. So now you claim that Russia is the aggressor? Hahahaha your good for a laugh. I no longer believe anything spoken by DC insiders. They are all deceitful and working on an agendas that is contrary to the truth and the well being of my fellow countrymen. Go pound sand.
War sucks.
So does Absalon.
The archbishop or the ship? Personally, I could learn to dislike either one.
Oh.... you meant the third son of David!
I thought the archbishop/ship bit was satirical, but I missed the mark. I'll leave comedy to the professionals!
The ship is pretty cool but its the Bishop who I took my screen name from.
That would hurt my feelings if I had any respect for you.
Hey... did anyone else just notice that the comment from the douchebag making 15k a month just pulled an MH370?
Yes. I guess I have to push off retirement for a few more years.
I did!!! +1000 ZH!
YAY!!
I did suggest he kill himself . . .
Maybe he realized that your suggestion was a better alternative than what he was doing to make the 15k!
But, I will miss the witty responses to his ad. There were some classics in there.
I pray for the people of Ukraine they have been dragged into evil and a lot of people will die for this war we are starting. history will tell the true story if it dosnt go nuklear!
The NATO Stronk crew are working overtime tonight (not just on ZH).
vlad needs to tell mccain/barry/eu everything e-se of dneiper now russia and dare 'em to come and get it. worst that can happen is 50 megatoner airbursts over paris,london,DC, nyc, chitown, LA etc. that's what west wants to do to moscow, bejing, etc anyway.
The only things that drags us into war are ignorance and obedience.
An American, not US subject.
Well, if the west had not decided to support the overthrow of original Ukranian government we would not be in the mess we are now. But noooooo, the brain dead strategists did not learn any lessons in Irak, Lybia or Egypt. Somehow they actually belive that simply destabilizing a regime automatically implies that a western-friendly democracy will magically ermerge, like in some kind of fairy tail. The string pullers in the shadows are complete morons, add to that our bozo in chief and nothing surprises me anymore.
Hey, what did the US do in Grenada a few decades ago? Huh? The mainstream media never brings that up...? Why I'll be darned, wonder why!?
"They actually believe...a western-friendly democracy will magically emerge."
BS, sell that shit to the tourists. They KNOW chaos will "emerge" and that is what they actually want.
Chaos is an acceptable alternative result.Much as destroying the EU's use as a part
of the eurasian trade bloc, will work if they can't conquer Russia.
ANY war in Europe, hot, cold or warm, is an advantage to the Americans, and their failing economy.
Let's not forget sister, most of the $40 trillion in 'Bail Out' money went across the Pond to the people who are calling the shots. America is not under the control of Americans. The game is Chess. Not tic-tac-toe.
shit a zh article i agree with...scary
Bleau, you and Plugsie should pick up rifles and show Putin'$ Spetznaz what badasses you are. Kosovo is Serbia.
This 'conflict' is more about energy and petrodollar hegemony than anything else. Wasn't there a referendum there where the people decided they wanted to break away from Ukraine proper? I think so, but that is brushed under the rug. This is all about geopolitics. Putin is thumbing his nose at the reserve currency and the west doesn't like it so they think this is the best way to make him change his ways. Problem is, the petrodollar is going to die anyway and nobody here in the west is broaching that subject.
Wake up americans before its too late.
1 min warning to American people and to people of the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QZLuu_8du4&list=UUUm-_7qfkQir8hlvsanAEhQ
kill them all and kill the jews too for old times sake and a coupla heil mary mmm, um, rrhh, hitlers to the world. the only way to achieve peace is to kill everyone opposed to us. peace is the ultimate state of humans' existence. kill them all!!!! long live the empire!!!
What would the US Banker Empire do without the Hitler story?
I would think the Germans would be getting pretty tired of that kind of logic, that simple good vs. evil, when the warmongers mischaracterize the events of WWII to their own advantage. It's so simple, they say: We’re democracy and he’s Hitler. Remember Hitler?
And to actually tell a German newspaper that?
Actually, these broad propaganda assaults are part of the US Banker Empire’s strategy for enveloping sovereign countries, installing puppet governments and stealing the resources: the Ukraine Project.
This strategy of expanding Empire follows almost exactly a pattern used in other parts of the world; and was specifically revealed in the landmark insider book, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins.
He was part of the rigged elections, payoffs, extortion, sex, and murder in the game of Empire. And it’s unfolding daily in the US assault on Ukraine.
As Tim Weiner stated at length in the New York Times more than a decade ago,
“The United States---supported authoritarian regimes throughout Central and South America during and after the Cold War in defense of its economic and political interests …
"In tiny Guatemala, the Central Intelligence Agency mounted a coup overthrowing the democratically elected government in 1954, and it backed subsequent right-wing governments against small leftist rebel groups for four decades. Roughly 200,000 civilians died…
"In Chile, a CIA-supported coup helped put Gen. Augusto Pinochet in power from 1973 to 1990. In Peru, a fragile democratic government is still unraveling the agency’s role in a decade of support for the now-deposed and disgraced president, Albert K. Fujimori, and his disreputable spy chief, Vladimiro L. Montesinos…
"The United States had to invade Panama in 1989 to topple its narco-dictator, Manuel A. Noriega, who, for almost 20 years, was a valued informant for American intelligence. And the struggle to mount an armed opposition against Nicaragua’s leftists in the 1980s by any means necessary, including selling arms to Iran for cold cash, led to indictments against senior Reagan administration officials…"
Some Empire targets didn't go down so easily; Iraq turned out to be a huge miscalculation, not unlike the selection of Ukraine where a much different kind of political figure is involved, Vladimir Putin.
I'm not clear. By clowns you mean the Joker in purple and his minions, right?
Go back to watching movies if you can't pay attention here.
False Flag to start War: Check?
"Strange how every "terrorist" event in the past ten or fifteen years benefited the various imperial governments of Britain, Israel, Australia and the USA. These false flag terror operations help cement power, by spreading terror throughout the victim nation. By spreading the effects of terror--pictures of damage and film interviews of mass hysteria and confusion--the mainstream media of the traumatized country served as an unquestioning, ultra-effective propaganda vehicle. The national media acts as a brilliant, second phase of the false flag operation, by further spreading the terror while muddying the waters to any conflicting evidence or subsequent investigation."
False Flags UnfurledYou name four countries and one of them is Australia. It's looking more so everyday that we are becoming total lapdogs of the other three mentioned with Abbott as much their "man" as Yats is in Ukraine! Psychopaths are only two percent of the population but are surely well over 50% of those in control, whether that is politics, corporations, military, religion! The planets is f*#ked and if there is a God then he'd be well considering tearing it all down and starting over from scratch!
So the West is forcing Putin to invade Ukraine and annex Ukrainian territory? I'm not convinced.
then hit the books
study up
WTF have you learned on ZH for the years you have been here if not some deep skepticism about banksterism?
wake up
One cannot learn any principles from ZH. There are no useful principles here. One can learn some useful facts, however, among the vast inventory of non-facts. In that regard, ZH is just like the rest of the internet.
"The EU yesterday (in yet another definition of democracy) picked its new president. They chose Polish PM Donald Tusk, which may seem a bit strange since Tusk doesn’t speak a word of either English or French, and he comes from a nation that is not even in the Eurozone, yet he will now now get to chair meetings that concern the euro."
I would like to remind Mr. Meijer that Poland is a member of the EUROPEAN UNION (EU) so this qualifies Mr Tusk as President of the EU Council.
Are you saying that the PM of the United Kingdom should NOT be able to be elected President of the EU Council since the UK uses POUND STERLING as it's official currency?
A robust long-term non-nuclear war between the EU and Russia is the best thing that could happen in Europe. It would help reduce the high unemployment rates while reducing the bloated population, especially youth, pull some of the lazy Europeans out of their fantasy entitlement & leisure lifestyle, stimulate their economies, and force them to grow some brains and balls. I am very grateful for Putin because I know that he will keep taking what he wants and force the Europeans out of their self-induced coma.
It would be ideal and a dream come true if all the socialist parasites in Europe were sent into the front lines first, then the war could have the added benefit of social & political garbage collection too.
Georgia?
your're right, of course. but russia-sponsored trolls are immune. to whatever.
Godot, I'd up vote you but it seems no one is allowed to do this. ZH, have you really sunk to this level of bullshit?
If so, then you render yourself useless to a real argument and debate.
Georgia?
ah yes - that's a great example of Russian aggression.
Georgia
with the tie eating harvard puppet PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ02MlVRcMA
let's see, forgot which color revolution that op was: pink or purple maybe?
“Lies have shorter and shorter legs. Two months after the change of regime in Kiev, the Polish press has disclosed the role of Donald Tusk’s government in preparing the coup.”
That’s from Voltaire Net, April 22.
Poland’s Hand in Ukraine Coup d’Etat: Trained Putchists Two Months in Advance, on Behalf of US-NATO
By Thierry Meyssan
Voltaire Net 22 April 2014 (excerpts)
The Polish left-wing weekly Nie (No) published a startling witness account of the training given to the most violent of the EuroMaidan [1] activists.
According to this source, in September 2013, Polish Foreign Minister Rados?aw Sikorski invited 86 members of the Right Sector (Sector Pravy), allegedly in the context of a university exchange program. In reality, the guests were not students, and many were over 40.
Contrary to their official schedule, they did not go to the Warsaw University of Technology, but headed instead for the police training center in Legionowo, an hour’s drive from the capital. There, they received four weeks of intensive training in crowd management, person recognition, combat tactics, command skills, behavior in crisis situations, protection against gases used by police, erecting barricades, and especially shooting, including the handling of sniper rifles. Such training took place in September 2013, while the Maidan Square protests were allegedly triggered by a decree suspending preparations for the signing of the Ukraine-European Union Association Agreement, which was issued by Prime Minister Mykola Azarov on November 21, i.e. two months later.
The Polish weekly refers to photographs attesting to the training, which show the Ukrainians in Nazi uniforms alongside their Polish instructors in civilian clothing. These revelations warrant a fresh look at the resolution adopted in early December 2013 by the Polish Parliament (Sejm), pledging its
“total solidarity with Ukrainian citizens who, with strong determination, are showing the world their desire to achieve the full membership of their country in the European Union.“ …
During Yulia Tymoshenko’s government (2007-2010), the current interim president of Ukraine, Oleksandr Tourtchynov, had served as intelligence chief and deputy prime minister. He liaised at the time with the Poles' Donald Tusk (already Prime Minister), Rados?aw Sikorski (then Defense Minister) and Bart?omiej Sienkiewicz (director of the private intelligence firm ASBS Othago).
To overthrow the government of its neighbor state, Poland resorted to Nazi activists in the same way that Turkey uses Al-Qaeda to overthrow the Syrian government. Not only is it not surprising to see the current Polish authorities rely on the grand-children of the Nazis that the CIA tucked into the NATO Gladio network to fight against the Soviet Union, but we should also be reminded of the controversy which broke out in the 2005 Polish presidential election, when journalist and MP Jacek Kurski revealed that Józef Tusk, the grandfather of Donald Tusk, had intentionally enrolled in the Wehrmacht.
After denying the facts, the Prime Minister finally admitted that his grandfather had indeed served in the Nazi army, but claimed he had been forcefully conscripted after the annexation of Danzig. A recollection that speaks volumes about how Washington selects its agents in Eastern Europe.
In summary, Poland trained a mob of thugs to overthrow the democratically-elected president of Ukraine and pretended he was subscribing to an appeasement agreement with him on 21 February 2014, while his rioters were in the process of seizing power. Moreover, there is no doubt that the coup was sponsored by the United States, as evidenced by the telephone conversation between Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and Ambassador Geoffrey R. Pyatt [4]. Similarly, it is clear that other NATO members, including Lithuania (in the past, Ukraine was dominated by the Polish-Lithuanian empire), and Israel in its capacity as a de facto member of its military command structure, took part in the coup [5]. This arrangement suggests that NATO now runs a new Gladio network in Eastern Europe [6]. In addition, following the coup, mercenaries working for Greystone Ltd., a subsidiary of Academi, were deployed in the country in coordination with the CIA [7]….
http://www.globalresearch.ca/polands-hand-in-ukraine-coup-detat-trained-putchists-two-months-in-advance/5378655
Well, I guess the concept of "Polish Nazi" is really no more difficult to accept than the already well-established "Jewish Nazi" behavior that we've all come to expect from the Zionist State.
. posted in error,sorry
tusk no speaka one word of English, rightee'o!
The Jews have gone berserk, false flag after false flag to collect guns. Trying to incite race wars in America. Lying like crazy. Calling Guatemala our southern border now, flooding the country will illegals, pushing for WWlll with Russia, China, Iran and whoever else will join in.
They know time is running out for them.
From the Northern Aggression Against the South, WWI to WWII, the government has done its best to keep the facts hidden about protestors and unpopularity in those wars, much greater than what one is told to believe.
Tusk of Zbi colour; the rest is the play on Zbi's chessboard.
Lets see if Putin is the messenger who says to Pax Americana : its no longer your way or the highway for the rest of the world...
Libya was the straw that broke the camel's back in this current US push--post Lehman decimation of its reserve status-- to use "Arab spring" as a spring-board for awesome regime change all over MENA and around Putin's alternative vision of Eurasia; also to nip in the bud any Putinista/Chindia/Bric alternative monetary play to greenback hegemony, currently destroying the financialized world economy pumped on toxic financial derivative steroids and inflated risk assets.
Looks like Libya stays the weather vane to judge how US can hold on to its sullied oil patch cake of Sunni/shia divide n ruin plays and permanent asymmetric war games initiated since Nam days, in order to rule alone on Kafkaian Dystopia doused in periodic Dracula vampire plays of its own making.
Adenoid Hynkel Obama vs Benzino Napaloni of Gazprom, in the game of thrones for conquest of Bacteria, the polluted/germ infested world of tomorrow.
Enjoy the show with the EU as toothless hag carrying the Gucci bag; twin sister of a jaded Lady Lagarde trying to look intensely useful walking the lonely corridors of power like a Lady Macbeth crying "out out damned spot" to claims of criminal negligence in her previous role as political spear carrier for Sarko of France; now all re-bunkered up in her Chateau Mouton Rothschild of IMF autocratic monetary infamy.
If you thought the war clowns the suspected Gay macho brothers Libby Vinestine and John Barney Rubble were out of their depth, which some have alledeglly observed was about an inch into each other. You have the princesss diane, a talking head so vapid it could only come from California.
Completely off topic, but I thought it was funny. Chelsea Clinton just did a story on hunger in America. I hope Obama's kids will become reporters. Before they marry hedge fund managers.
Anyone seen surveys as to whether the American public is falling for this garbage?
I LISTENED TO STEVE PIFER, BROOKINGS INST AND FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO THE UKRAINE. he talks as though there is no doubt about Putins guilt but then writes: "Russian military forces now apparently fighting in the country’s rebel-held east"...wtf.... 'apparently??? We are going to war with apparently as our proof?
That is not even as good as Colin Powell before the UN in 2003 ...at least he had a vial of dirt...apparently??no pics ??no satellite inages??
LMFAO! we've been at war for 20-30 years.
Silent but violent/ The global "Fart" contest...
The best fucking thing I EVER did in my life... was to downsize and watch snails crawl across my garden!
What? Me worry? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwhxeaVfk3s
There has never ever ever ever been any agreement not to expand NATO to East Europe.
The writer is blatantly lying.
There have been verbal promises, but they were never formally documented and signed.
On the other hand, there is a signed document about Ukraine territory when they gave up nukes. Few really know what exactly was agreed upon and what else was signed beside the document available to everybody.
Americans have to choose between interventions with human cost which lead to high standard of living and no interventions, hence no human cost which lead to 50% or more instant drop in the standard of living if USA hypothetically declares to be non-interventionist
Barack Obama has unoficcially declared USA to be non-interventionist for as long as he is president in order to defend bank lobby and demolish neocons and pentagon.
This has led to erosion of USD and world chaos, food and energy inflation and bank lobby absolute rule.
If that's what you want, then you are having it right now
I know. A lot of people here seem to be saying two things: (1) that America is a tyrannical, fascist state that deposes legitimate foreign leaders only to serve America's interests, and (2) America's leadership is incompetent at creating jobs and bringing wealth into the country.
Um... newsflash... just how exactly do these people think America became wealthy in the first place? By holding hands with people like Putin and singing Kumbaya? The entire "founding" of this country is based on land-grabbing, genocide and the use of dirty, underhanded tactics to get whatever Americans want.
There's a phrase: you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't refrain from pillaging and looting but still keep your loot at the end of the day. Keep that in mind as American-led forces impose further control within east Ukraine in the coming weeks and months.
@ Inthemix96
My brotha with anotha motha/
Does this have any legs? Cameron faces Ukip by-election bloodbath: Party set to win first Commons seat after shock poll reveals Farage's staggering 44-point lead over the Tories | Mail Online
Thanks for your thoughts.
US CORP is not AMERICA!!!!
It is an english ziocontrolled corporation.
Get it fucking right.
RIPS
USA has been living off of other territories stolen resources for a long time.
Sing praise to Barack Obama then for vetoing interventions that Pentagon wants
The preferred word is "liberated" resources - resources extracted from the hard earth and recalcitrant peoples of Non-America, and brought to fruition all across the shopping mall and asphalt horizons of the Homeland.
This is by far the most ignorant column i have ever read on this web site. It demonstrates a total lack of historical knowledge as well as a complete lack of moral sense or intelligence. If i didn' know any better, I would think it had been posted by Putin himself!
Your going to have to do better than that...
One wonders what article you may be referring to; something you’ve seen elsewhere? Because by standards of history, logic and incredible aggressiveness, I have seen practically no summaries of the Ukraine crisis that come close to being as excellent as this one.
Your zeal to see the western Banker Empire notch another sovereign country on its "New World Order" list shows your bias.
Go back to your MSM and the trance they succeeded so well at putting you into please!
What an utterly stupid post. Putin makes a land-grab and it is everyone else's fault. If you think telling a lie often enough makes it truth, you are wrong. If you make money off being another tyrant's useful idiot, you are a whore.
Hope you enjoy playing in your cesspool, boys.
Don't say that here on ZH! You'll get banned.
As all of ZH will tell you, everything was all sunshine and lollipops when Yanukovych was still in power. Stupid America! Boo!
When Yanukovych was in power, nobody knew who he was nor gave a crap. Some twit with an inferiority complex invades another country, people take note.
Cut out all the BS and it reduces to that. The US culpable of many terrible acts; the same is true of all nations. Simple fact is that Putin isn't big enough to pull it off, and nations including his own will suffers the price.
Yet another shill. Yes they need to get banned and not be allowed to post once they accumulate enough negative points.
Yes, "Petkovplamen" calling for me to be banned for I denounce a deluded Russian leader. Lovely sentiment that signals what is woefully wrong.
It is not a land grab.he is just defending his people. eu/nato are doing a land grab
This was exactly what Hitler apologists said. Everyone suffered.
Fascism once again rises around the world, disguised under a different flag. But looking under the bonnet one would find the same underlying principles of race supremacy and nihillism.
Russia will once again fulfil its destiny of preventing fascism from taking over the world.
Here, have some bacon: http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-arrested-in-rome-for-organ-trafficking/
Slight difference, Hitler rolled into regions that did not want him and subjugated the population by force, the people of Donbass want to be allied to Russia, speak Russian, consider themselves Russian and want the Freedom to govern themselves, from that point of view the People of Dombass are the freedom fighters, the west is the Nazi regime attempting to dictate who will control them....something to consider.
Sorry, you are a dumbass. Hitler invaded to "liberate" Sudenland Germans and started a world war.
Yawn, use your computer do some research, the origins of WW2 had alittle more going for it than liberating Sudenland germans.
Poland (1939)
Denmark (1940)
Norway (1940)
Belgium (1940)
The Netherlands (aka Holland) - 1940
Luxembourg (1940)
France (1940)
The Channel Islands (UK depencencies) - 1940
Greece (1941)
Yugoslavia (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia) - 1941
Soviet Union (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia) -1941
Egypt (1942)
The ones annexed before World War 2 were:
Austria (1938)
Sudetenland (1938)
Bohemia and Moravia (Czechoslovakia) - (March 1939)
Memel (part of Lithuania) - (March 1939)
Slovakia was set up as a German puppet state (1939)
All these events came after the Sudetenland grab, and your desperate attempt to not look stupid merely serves to make my point. Putin won't stop at eastern Ukraine if he gets it, and the world knows it. He is already calling it the "New Russia".
This is not an exclusively US issue: the world will have nothing to do with it. Apologists and useful idiots may not like it but Putin is a "chessmaster" playing with only a haldful of outdated pawns from the cold war.
>>>[Putin] is already calling it the "New Russia".
The lands bordering the northern Black Sea have been called "New Russia" since 1780 or so.
It carries a far more sinister tone than what was meant in dear old 1780 or so, as noted in the article below. You likely know with clarity about this, and are merely playing games for some obtuse reason.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/31/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKBN0GS10C20140831
Your reaching back to 1780 JM, I think you will find the world is a little bit different now, but don't let me stop you, the whole worlds a playground for you to drag associations up from, lol.
sorry jm, I'm going to have to look a bit stupid here and sink to your level, you are a Dumbass.
This doesn't make you look stupid, only petty. Not knowing anything about a subject and posting anyway makes you a dumbass.
.
You don't seem to understand the obvious Jm, the people of the region WANT to govern themselves, they do not want to be governed by a CIA backed coup government that threw out the elected democratic government, they are therefore freedom fighters, fighting for their freedom, I am sorry you are so small minded that you do not believe in peoples right to decide for themselves how they will conduct their lives, it must be very lonely in your fascist little world.
And now, I must go, other work beckons, its been fun :)
For clarification, I do not necessarily accept your premise that somehow the CIA made all this happen.
Yanukovych was as much a criminal as Putin, living in a palace compound that reminded everyone just how little they actually governed themselves. Then he effective signed over what little soverignty Ukranians actually had to Putin. The popular and democratic will of the people was to string him up by the balls. Like a true puppet, he fled to hide in Russia.
Did the EU/US have smething to do with it? It's plausible. But if true, then the outcome is to move the country towards the EU/US and away from Putin's Russia. This is an unmitigated good for the country.
Eastern Ukraine IS Russian. They don't want Kiev, NATO, the USSA, or Israel. Kiev should turn around and go home.
Eastern Urkaine is a part of Ukraine, some inhabitants speaking Russian. That doesn't mean they want to be invaded by a foreign military or ruled by a bunch of thugs backed by Putin. From what I have seen, none of the captured Russian soldiers thought it was Russia and they didn't want to be there.
But I'm sure you are the final and true authority of what the eastern part of Ukraine wants.
Oh so you are saying that of the over 2000 civilians killed by indiscriminate shelling of towns in eastern Ukraine, only some of these slaughtered people were Russian speaking? They are killing mostly Ukrainian speaking inhabitants, people on their own side??! Neo-Nazi thugs is all they are and morons like you should just f off to your MSM again because ZH has a vast majority far more capable of critical thought and seeing through the never ending propaganda that the likes of you throw out.
I can't even be sure what point you are trying to make. I also can't tell who has killed who in this mess, but I know who invaded another country. That we even argue about this fact is indicative of how pathological the Putin-fellators have become.
"Neo-nazi thugs" is just a too-stupid tell that you are not looking at any facts whatsoever and just spewing venom. To call either side a "nazi" has absolutely no currency outside of the "vast majority" of brainwashed fools.
>>>"Neo-nazi thugs" is just a too-stupid tell that you are not looking at any facts whatsoever and just spewing venom. To call either side a "nazi" has absolutely no currency outside of the "vast majority" of brainwashed fools.
"Neo-nazi thugs" is completely accurate. The Right Sector members have been coached well-enough not to publicly wear swastika armbands, but they're certainly not beyond publicly displaying large full-color portraits of Der Alte Adolf, and hailing one another, and their publicly-assembled membership, with the Hitlergruss salute. If this doesn't constitute a "neo-nazi" group, the term has no meaning.
As to whether Right Sector members are thugs, ask the families of those civilian protestors who were burned to death, or strangled, in the Odessa Trade Union Building.
And nothing was done, until he took Poland.
If putin goes beyond ukraine then i will call it a land grab
And now we have reached Godwin's Law. Tag! you're it jm
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Its very, very easy to acertain who is "in the right": one merely has to ask the following question -
Who is using white phosphorus against civilians and who is not?
Politics does not and should not question who is in the right. Politics is about strength and who can pull it off a heist on multiple scales. Get used to it, accept it, deal with it.
Russia is not what it used to be, thankfully. What Putin has single-handedly done is make capital and markets in general turn their back on Russia. Worse, he has made sure that his delusional "greater sphere of influence" is minimized politically and militarily. His only win is being the hero for a bunch of helpless and hopeless cheerleaders who will sadly never see him for what he really is.
Had the west not pirate-raided the Soviet Union begining in Yeltsin's reign. That sort of pissied off the Russian mob who then saw a nationalist hero in Putin, who is now pollling above 80% at home. I can remember reading that the life expectancy in Russia actually dropped due to the western economic reforms. No wonder the populace reacted.
And while we were busy mismanaging wars in the Middle East, Putin rebuilt with our eyes completely off him. Today we have an EU addicted to the gas/heroin Putin provides.
Russia may not be a world wide power but it's a very strong regional one. Any conventional war with them will be no "cake walk." And the Russians can still turn Mons, DC and Cheyenne mountain into a glass parking lot if they so choose.
It would be nice to see, for once, foreign policies that actually worked and not based on magical thinking.
Land grab, like in the West Bank?
Right on Tyler. And let every fool calling for war on Russia or sending arms to the junta Ukraine government put their dumb asses on the line, go the Ukraine, and join one of their militias - they have plenty of SS-style units that would be suitable.
Killing the Ukrainian Jews will end this war. Then we move to tel aviv israel. Once the US taxpayers shut down financial aid. We can watch the Isreali's war end. They cannot back the feverish war without the Illegal United States of America taxpayer fleecing. You fucking bank your own wars without US funding. Let's see how long you last, ass raping child molesting pediphile faggots who never seem to recoup the money loaned to you under compounded interest.
See how we view parasite Jews. We're Americans, you're a thief. Stealing l and never repay. Fuck National Security, you screwed up trust and relationships. American people have suffered over the mistakes you made in foreign policy.
We may need to line you up on the gun firing line. We can fix this better than you.
Thanks for making my point about this being a cesspool.
That boot doesnt look tasty, why you keep sucking on it so hard?
Bit of advice... shut up till you can think for yourself.
You sound like a "Regularly Scheduled Programming" fool.
Man was meant to do more than repeat the idiot box.
RIPS
You are a sewer channel from which the excrement flows.
You are a MSM parrot mocking bird....truth stings eh?
use that thing inbetween your ears.
RIPS
Don't blame me ... I didn't vote for the anti-war candidates or the anti-war party! R O F L
Once we shutdown financing proxy wars. This war on terrorism ends. The banking dealer community will be exposed. End of story.
Then they offer new low interest loans, and repeat the same process.
People are only too willing to sell their children and future for some immediate comfort.
Great article. Thanks.
Great article. Thanks.
Barack Obama pushed Ukraine to the brink of a political, economic and social collapse. Now he wants to blame Russia for the damage it caused. It is absurd. Moscow is in no way responsible for Ukraine be in the direction of anarchy. It is Washington. Washington has done the same in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and now Syria is always Washington. Who want to blame, blame Obama.
http://redecastorphoto.blogspot.com.br/2014/08/pivo-de-washington-bate-n...
I will grant yo that Obama is the weakest and worst president in a generation. He will be gone soon enough... one of the merits of our system. Regarding the rest of your post, it would surely be more eloquent in your native cyrillic.
Funny thing is... Donald Tusk, one of the biggest clowns and morons in Poland just had a tape scandal exposing his willingness to cooperate with the Polish Central Bank in order to hold major power in Poland. However, sheeple and sheeple media already forgot about that and only focuse on HOW PROUD WE ARE THAT TUSK BECOMES THE NEW PRESIDENT OF THIS SHITHOLE EU! Worst part is... I even have to listen to this shit at home, in the neighbourhood or at work. FUCK ME! :((
At least Tusk gives good blowjobs to the 'americans'. That is the matteringest part.
Poland...didn't they just decide to steal retirees' bonds?
Hell yes they did! BUT NO ONE CARES! People are in a freaking coma! Literally, they live like rats, from month to month, with no prospects for the future, mostly with a credit for 30 years. Sometimes I have a feeling that they will never wake up, no matter what!
PS. You can't even imagine how much propaganda we have on TV. Every single information about Ukraine delivered right from the government in Kiev. Polish media doesn't even bother to prepare its own opinion on this fucked up situation. Media have a war fever and the position is clear: Russia is the number one enemy who threatens Poland.
FAIL
We know you Russians want to destabilize the Ukrainian elections. That is why you are sending in ground troops and armor even when a democratic process is meant to be held TWO MONTHS from now.
Mother Russians, I am NOT a Christian and I hold NO religion. I want you to know that if it comes down to it, and nukes are used, I will push to see YOU BURN TO DUST.
I have many folks I hold as friends and acquaintances in the West who feel as I do. If you prove, as Putin suggests, that you revere the horror you brought to so many countless peoples over those long soviet decades, if you say, as a people, that Putin is right to bring back the "glory" of the Soviet empire, then we WILL see you burn and we WILL hunt you mother Russians to every little hole and cave your inept leaders send you.
We will not turn a cheek. We will eat your faces off.
novictim, the Propaganda is strong in you. 'Putin is right to bring back the glory of the Soviet empire building'
Perhaps he just wants what the people of Donbass want, to be free and not shot and killed, to rule themselves. Since when did the ideals of Freedom and Democracy become reasons to kill.
"Blah, blah, blah.... we will not turn a cheek. We will eat your faces off."
Go back to playing with your action figure dolls and torturing little animals, brainstem.
He who has religion is much more effective at fighting than one who does not.
History has proven you wrong by orders of magnitude.
Dude... Why the anger? Did you catch your boyfriend rubbing one off to a shirtless picture of Vlad?
wow such hatred and ignorance. Must sucks to be you. How about the horror and death USA brought to millions in Iraq, Vietman, Syria, Lybia, Iran, Central and SOuth AMerica(Chile, Argentina, Nicaragua), etc, etc, etc??? How conviniently you forget those, indeed.
If the nukes are used you will also most likley burn to dust. then yiou will wonder if it was worth it but it will be too late.
You dip shit Russians with your appeal to the supposed crimes of the USA as some tool to legitimize your own crimes...Soooo predictable!
Does that really fly with you small brained people?
Ukraine is supposed to carry America's Cross? Really, idiot?
Obama, Kerry and Adolph Merkel's hypocrisy regarding Putin reminds me of my dad's guide to raising kids, "do as I say not as I do"
It's time to lay off the bath salts man.
So, once again it comes down to a battle for freedom and democracy against the evil enemy of freedom and democracy, now all we need is for the propaganda machines of each side to battle it out as to which side is fighting for freedom and democracy and which side is the evil doer.
Of course the civilians in the region of Donbass have no doubts they get to bury the bodies daily and wander through their ruined cities, but their opinion does not matter, this will be decided in the parliaments of rich corrupt men and woman thousands of miles away whose biggest fear in life is somebody from the other side of Parliament calling them weak.
Thanks ZH for spotlighting AutoMaticEarth.com And Ilargi and Nicole Foss(aka Stoneliegh).
They have been putting out good stuff on a daily basis for longer than ZH.
zagadac
po sasiedzku
Meine Damen und Herren
The most obvious solution
is that
Angela Donald and Vlad
will draft a peaceful solution
over this whole spat
place your bets accordingly
pozdravlaju
This Mindless American foreign policy that has been led by Kerry and F'U Victoria Nuland is a total cluster fuck. Supporting fascist assholes in Kiev is a loser policy. The Ukraine has committed national suicide by American bribe. Just like our Mid-East policy where we supported religious fascists from the Mujaheddin to the FSA which is IS in disguise, America is in the ditch funding our enemies. We have lost every opportunity to build peace instead we foist militarism on the world. The parents of Ukrainian conscripts want their children back, they protest often under threat from the government in Kiev, the family of the soldiers know, they have learned that this war is unjust and unnecessary. All we have had from our mass media is lies, parrots of the government. According to our MSM the Russians invaded the Ukraine 3 times in August and we have no evidence of any of it. A mass murder happened in July, MH-17 was shot down and we still have no evidence from that crime. We are fed lies. Fear, uncertainty and doubt, the 3 pillars of propaganda are all aimed to manipulate the public and sadly most people buy it. Our government is desperate for a war, I think the economy is about to implode and they want us to be distracted. Stay focused and do no lose sight of their manipulations, our government can't be trusted.
Europe must provide prosperity to the Ukraine, as it has promised.
If Obama gives $200 billion, Merkel gives €200 billion, and others give €500 billion, every Ukrainian will drive a luxury Mercedes and live in a nice mansion.
That way they will feel the importance of being in the European Union. Then Crimeans will say, "We want to be rich without hard work too! Let's join the Ukraine."
I am baffled at this "bastion of libertarioanism and freedom" that is Zerohedge for its consistent support for dictator Putin, particularly in light of the first annexation of territory of one state by the other since World War 2 (not counting Iraq's attempt of gobblig up Kuwait in 1991)
Have you heard about DDR (Deutsche Demokratische Republik)?
It was occupied by West Germany. Some East Germans liked it, some didn't.
And West Germany is still occupied by American troops.
And how many families has Putin made bug splat with cowardly drone attacks? Emperor Obama's tally is about a thousand in multiple countries
Plus add 2500 dead Gazans and at least 2k civilians in Eastern Ukraine on his tab. Not to mention over 1k from his Egyptian coup
Mr. Nobel Peace Prize
Screw the Ukraine. The real action is over at 4chan for the mass celebrity nude extravaganza!
is that in /b?
It looks like the "war party" in the west has won control of the political stage, and with total media support is now laying groundwork for a major European war. A war in which Poland and Lithuainia will drive the war fever for a reluctant Western Europe. Does anyone remember the Bush administration claim that Poland was the New Europe and Germany and France were Old Europe. This split came about because Poland and Lithuania are eager to bring the USA into war with Russia, while Western Europe wants nothing of the sort.
America's Neocon war party, the people Ronald Wilson Reagan called "the crazies" and threw out of his adminitration, have found a new more willing host, the democratic party and the Israeli lobby which runs that party as an arm of Israeli state security.
I am tired of these war mongers, I have thrown every bit of logic I can come up with to debunk and expose their foolishness in my ZH posts. But it really is just me Pissing into the Wind. Meaningless really. The CNN and FOX crowd post their bullshit and can't wait for this war to unfold, thinking Russia is friendless and helpless against the great American war machine. Sadly, these are not facts, but hopes. You don't go to war on hope, you go to war on fact and need.
God help us all, because these Polish fucks mean to have war and never will settle for anything less than war. It is just that they will cheer on the USA while hoping WE will kill off their ancient enemy, Russia.
You will see mass desertions, something they never speak of.
Bergdahl on steroids.
I think Bush's old europe/new europe statement had more to do with French refusing to put their troops under US command in Iraq or Afghanistan.
At least that's how I remember it.
I read your posts and find your insight informative. I agree that trying to inform or educate the public via blogs and social media is near hopeless. The MSM propaganda machine is nearly unstoppable but don't let the bastards get you down. I am beginning to think that the people who run the 'show' are a suicide death cult. I would expand on that thought but it is not worth it for me, I would be shouted down. At the end of the day your effort shows your humanity and you do care where most people do not. Keep it going.
ZHedge posts are preaching to the choir, you know that. It's just that we listen here. "You be crazy" on main stream sites. Family gatherings are painful these days. as either they are oblivious or full of msm propaganda.
On mainstream sites (Guardian esp.) Comments supporting Novorossiya are deleted
Jack, when I first started coming here I was only just opening up to ideas, I never even had any conception that someplace like ZH really existed. It and most of the posters here played a big part in opening up my mind, I think because most of here are seeking out the truth. Other posters here over time just gave me some confidence that it was OK to think in an unorthodox manner if I was searching for an honest logical truth about some matter or issue or other. This place influenced me a lot I don't mind saying, I'm sure it does others, maybe just not as fast we'd like. Some people just don't want to know, there's not much one can do about it.
I am following Ukraine closely because I was very close to a family from Ukraine growing up, they were like a family to me during some troubling times at my own home and it hits me deeply. It gives me hope when I come on here and see that avatar of yours and always look forward to what your analysis is of events there.
Jack, Russia won't be killed off
they have a way of getting back or pre empting our move
9-11 was not a false flag, it was revenge for jwhat the US did to them in Afghanistan,
worked pretty good
I wish you would knock off all this Zion is behind all this crap
Satanists yes, these folks you call Zionists are nothing more then satanists
Israel is not your enemy
Isis is not a Jewish concoction, It is pure Islam
This is fundamental Islam, right from the book, beheadings and all
stop acting like this is some false hyped up event
It is real and it is coming our way very soon
Obama will do nothing about it
Jack and most here have some bedrock backing to their thoughts and analysis. I don't even know how to respond to your comment.
This fool pays to be advertised and programmed by his tv. He is repeating the Idiot Box.
Sorry..that was the beginning of a shitty story.
RIPS
So Russia did 911 and Zionists are as pure as driven snow? Strange!!
@ dsty: "Isis is not a Jewish concoction, It is pure Islam,
This is fundamental Islam, right from the book, beheadings and all
stop acting like this is some false hyped up event
It is real and it is coming our way very soon "
Wow, you're so confident... read on below,,, just few days ago I read at ZH how the IAF bombed Syrian's border squad for small issue but waive the ISIS armed men...
however after reading following article by TONY CARTALUCI from The LAND DESTROYER blog then I have no difficulty to digest this ISIS / ISIL meme :)
ISIS or "Islamic State in Iraq and Syria" ???
It is important to point out that the Islamic State (IS) is not some shadowy force that emerged from the caves of Afghanistan to form an effective military force that is funded by Twitter donations and murky secretive finance deals. IS is entirely the creation of NATO and the West and it remains in control of the organization.
[...]
http://www.activistpost.com/2014/08/nato-using-foley-and-isis-as-pretext...
As Tony Cartalucci writes in his article “Implausible Deniability: West’s ISIS Terror Hordes In Iraq,”
Beginning in 2011 - and actually even as early as 2007 - the United States has been arming, funding, and supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and a myriad of armed terrorist organizations to overthrow the government of Syria, fight Hezbollah in Lebanon, and undermine the power and influence of Iran, which of course includes any other government or group in the MENA region friendly toward Tehran.
Billions in cash have been funneled into the hands of terrorist groups including Al Nusra, Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI), and what is now being called "Islamic State in Iraq and Syria" or ISIS. One can see clearly by any map of ISIS held territory that it butts up directly against Turkey's borders with defined corridors ISIS uses to invade southward - this is because it is precisely from NATO territory this terrorist scourge originated.
ISIS was harbored on NATO territory, armed and funded by US CIA agents with cash and weapons brought in from the Saudis, Qataris, and NATO members themselves. The "non-lethal aid" the US and British sent including the vehicles we now see ISIS driving around in.
[...]
http://www.landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2014/08/implausible-deniability-we...
NOTE: check the ISIS MAP to grasp clearer idea!
Jack, could not agree more, 6 months ago most US MSM could not spell Ukraine, let alone find it on a map, now we must support a neo-Nazi Government waging a war on its own citizens, fucking unbelievable.
I only have one question for the American people. Why is it that the main stream media has failed to tell you that Obmaa is a Sunni Muslimpdick. Sober the fuck up you dummies
Breaking war news. Reported "Self Defense Forces capture Donetsk Airport after months of fighting there. Reported that a number of Polish combat troops have been captured there. Mercinaries likley".
Anyways, Russia invaded, but Poles are being captured? Bet CNN doesn't run the captured Polish fighters taken at Donetsk airport among the elite of Ukraines army.