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Why The Rigging Of The Gold Market Matters
Submitted by Alasdair Macleod via The Cobden Centre,
In a radio interview recently I was asked a question to which I could not easily give a satisfactory reply: if the gold market is rigged, why does it matter?
I have no problem delivering a comprehensive answer based on a sound aprioristic analysis of how rigging markets distorts the basis of economic calculation and why a properly functioning gold market is central to all other financial prices. The difficulty is in answering the question in terms the listeners understand, bearing in mind I was told to assume they have very little comprehension of finance or economics.
I did not as they say, want to go there. But it behoves those of us who argue the economics of sound money to try to make the answer as intelligible as possible without sounding like a committed capitalist and a conspiracy theorist to boot, so here goes.
Manipulating the price of gold ultimately destabilises the financial system because it is the highest form of money. This is why nearly all central banks retain a holding. The fact we don’t use it as money in our daily business does not invalidate its status. Rather, gold is subject to Gresham’s Law, which famously states bad money drives out the good. We would rather pay for things in government-issue paper currency and hang on to gold for a rainy day.
As money, it is on the other side of all asset prices. In other words stocks, bonds and property prices can be expected to rise measured in gold when the gold price falls and vice-versa. This relationship is often muddled by other factors, the most obvious one being changing levels of confidence in paper currencies against which gold is normally priced. However, with bond yields today at record lows and equities at record highs this relationship is apparent today.
Another way to describe this relationship is in terms of risk. Banks which dominate asset markets become complacent about risk because they are greedy for profit. This leads to banks competing with one another until they end up ignoring risk entirely. It happened very obviously with the American banking crisis six years ago until house prices suddenly collapsed, threatening to take the whole financial system down. In common with all financial bubbles everyone ignored risk. History provides many other examples.
Therefore, gold is unlike other assets because a rising gold price reflects an increasing perception of general financial risk, ensuring downward pressure on other financial asset prices. So while the big banks are making easy money ignoring risks in equity and bond markets, they will not want their party spoiled by warning signs from a rising gold price.
This is a long way from proof that the gold market is manipulated. But the big banks, and we must include central banks which are obviously keen to maintain financial confidence, have the motive and the means. And if they have these they can be expected to take the opportunity.
So why does it matter if the gold price is rigged? A freely-determined gold price is central to ensuring that reality and not financial bubbles guides us in our financial and economic activities. Suppressing the gold price is rather like turning off a fire alarm because you can’t stand the noise.
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If your view of the future requires a gold standard you will be disappointed.
Fiat is here to stay.
Gold will be held outside the official monetary system and will be free to float against currencies. Only in this manner can it find it's correct price.
I suppose somehow you could convince all men in power to behave but this has been tried for a few hundred years and has failed.
Anyone think the possible adoption of the Swiss gol referendum will have an effect?
Gold is the constant. Everything else, is a variable.
"... how on earth the bankers got everyone to buy their backwards logic is astounding"
It is a failure of our public education system or the "proper" indoctrination, depending on your point of view.
It is amazing because bankers could not have gotten away with this fraud in the 19th century. Even the least educated people back then knew the difference between a decorated piece of paper and gold or silver coin.
How right you are Snob. - A tangible quality of Weight IS Measure - not a digital account entry or numeric image printed on a piece of paper. As such, thinking in terms of "Ounces" or "Grams" of monetary metals relative to ones productive labor and general purchasing power provides a far better reflection of value, truth, and reality.
For any government that prints currency (and that's all of them now), it is in their immediate economic self-interest to manipulate/repress the gold price.
However, once one of these regional conflicts/diseases/recessions blows up, the great unwashed masses will become aware of the difference between currency and money.
Woe to the unprepared: http://www.silverdoctors.com/one-year-in-hellsurviving-a-full-shtf-colla...
But it's not any government that benefits, only certain governments...
From something I posted earlier in the ExIm thread (the BIS is a G10 institution, not a US puppet)-
Evgeny Fedorov alluded to the crux of the problem (interest rate pricing in a g10 dominated finance/currency oligopoly)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qLMG0KD3rI#t=1160
(the first 5 minutes from the start of the link...)
Anyone who believes this stuff is completely free to put all their savings into gold and gold miners. Like Ron Paul does. Then you just have to wait.
I'm appalled that the gold market is being rigged, and that nobody's letting me in on it so I can profit.
If you believe the gold market is rigged then: (1) if you believe the riggers will push the price lower, go short gold or (2) if you think that eventually the rigging must collapse, go long gold and wait for the short squeeze.
You have the opportunity to profit: you just have to have the courage of your convictions. Personally I don't believe that the price of gold is rigged (or at least is not rigged enough to matter).
Porous Horace,
The door to the rigged market is wild open if and only if you are buying in ounces. However, if you wanted to buy in tons, you'd need a special key to open that door - the Germans will tell you all about it.
I think it has to do with existing legacy gold debt in the banking system. The bankers started out decades ago getting a sweet deal from the gov on borrowing gold that never has to be returned for no interest. They could borrow at 42 and sell at 350 immediately, and the gov would never change that offical price. They found that they could push the market around and make some cash trading. Then the pushing stopped working. And the trade only worked on their fantasy accounting balamnce sheets if they kept borrowing at 42 and selling at the market. They rode losses and added more shorts and leases. And then the things they never predicted started happening, like de dollarization, national debt explosion, and Iraq. Now they are just plain old stuck in thousands of tons of gold debt. If the price rises, they will be destroyed. They got a brief bailout when they stole the contents of GLD and SLV. But I strongly suspect, based on the flat lining of inventory levels in those products, that they are now completely tapped out.
My theory is they are just throwing good money after bad to protect a losing position.
In the 1950s and 1960s during the heyday of the IMFs currency stabilization scheme when the official gold price of IMF participating currencies was linked to the par value of gold set at $35 per ounce, the IMF were constantly trying to discourage gold trading at what they called premium prices (i.e. at above $35).
So there were two price levels. The first was gold transactions at around the $35 level and the second premium levels were sometimes far above the $35 level, for example, $48 or maybe $51 in gold bazaars in places like Tangiers or Manila , so premiums of around 50%.
At the time the majority of the Western public would have only been aware of the transactions in and around the $35 mark.
Now, it's quite possible that what we are seeing currently as the world market price is nothing more than an official fluctuating price from $400 - $1900 (an official band from 2000-2014) and that there is an altogether distinct market of premium prices far above the official band.
Given that the ratio of fiat money supply relative to gold is far higher today than it was in the 1950s, then the premium prices would be far higher, and could be 100s or 1000s of percentage points higher.
This would mean that the entire financial system is fixated on the fluctuations in the official band of price levels while there are other transactions taking place in the real premium price parallel markets. Not Tangiers this time but global transactions between various official sector institutions and for example oil producing nations, with intermediation by a handful of handpicked London and New York bullion banks.
Rising gold prices are a black eye for the Fed and undermine it's credibilty. The core of any confidence game is controlling the message and the perception. If the Fed loses the perception that they are in control, then the entire facade tumbles along with the purchasing power of the USD. The system has a great many advantages for those who control it. The power to create money from nothing is absolute power and absolute corruption.
Manipulation was proved to me (and nose rubbed in it) when the CME disclosed central bank participation.
This is why Volker says his biggest mistake was letting GOLD price get too high !!
If this is your belief, then enjoy the artificially low price and stack it while it it cheap!
If your Assets are well diversified* and have the Stuff of Preppers for a minimal period of 6-12 months, and still have DI (Disposable Income) aka Spare Cash, then by all means: Keep stacking, and thank your lucky stars about that Blue Light Special that TPTB got running.
The people who are trull pissed about the current situation, I'd imagine, include: 1. People who can't convince people to invest in PM bullion or stock that provides them Income (fees and commission), 2. Speculators (always looking for a get-rich-quick scam/scheme, rather than an 'honest' living), and 3. People who bought High but now NEED to sell (Low) for financial reasons, i.e. change in circumstances.
* Diversified into Primary, Secondary and Tertiary assets
Awesome comment
What about people who believe that the current system of irredeemable currency will destroy the foundation of civilization and perhaps usher in another dark age? There's more at stake than turning a quick profit.
Absolutely! Which is why I said "Keep stacking if you can afford it", but keep in mind that if TSHTF, you'll need other things first ("Prepper Stuff" for 6-12 months).
And owning Primary Assets should include having a house and some land.
Keep stacking, friend. And keep your eye on the Canary in the Coalmine: The ever rising price Spread for Bullion. To me this is FAR more telling than changes in the manipulated prices of PM.
$1200 and $18 will trigger my next round of purchases in Gold and Silver respectively. I'd love to see TPTB stuff gold back under $900 and Silver under $12 ... I'd stack hand over fist/to the bloody hilt (and empty my 401k to do so) if they did.
another useless article with a new fancy analogy as the highlight, even I could come up with this sort of thing
Switching off the burglar/fire alarm, gold, and beating the barking watchdog, silver, that would warn The Sheeple that they are being robbed through the debasement of their currency by the central banking cartel, enabled by the elephant/jackass sock puppets in their one-party political oligarchy.
The FED owns the Firetruck so pull the alarm all you want
The price of gold is one of the few public opinion polls about the level of faith in the financial system. Faith is increasingly lost when people see other people losing faith. Since a higher gold price = less faith in the system, TPTB will continue to manipulate the price of gold to the end.
This is also why the CME lets the CB's and gold banks roll their shorts out as opposed to being subject to have to deliver. In this way the CME effectively 'prints gold' every expiration, as the short interest is just perpetually rolled into the future ,with no fear of ever having to deliver.
Whether you consider the CME's policies true 'manipulation' or not, the result is still lower gold prices.
"In this way the CME effectively 'prints gold' every expiration, as the short interest is just perpetually rolled into the future ,with no fear of ever having to deliver."
Exactly, so how can the price ever serve the role of acting like a public opinion poll? It is the front line of the "war to print", so it will never be allowed to do so. Or at least they will throw all their armaments against it.
The splitting of the markets into Physical (with taking delivery mandated) and paper might work? Hence my interest in far east efforts to do so.
If you have an attention span longer than an ADD afflicted day trader's 3 min candlestick chart PM's are a great investment since the beginning of money.
dupe post
you are mistaken Mr. Macleod.
The banks are not ignoring risk.
The banks are actively engaged in trying to prevent everyone else from seeing risk.
The price of gold is usually the best indicator of rising risk.
The banks are not "accidentally" trying to prevent risk discovery as you imply.
Banks do not "compete" with one another Mr. Macleod.
You see the banks as far far too benevelont sir.
I'm not sure who paid you off to distort the true banking interest in regard to the price of gold, but you must have profited handsomely, no doubt.
Accusing another of taking bribes is a troll trick.
If you feel the need to do so you should have far more than mere disagreemnt with the writer.
Timmah doesn't mind PMs being 'rigged'. He takes advantage of the situation, as you all should. Timmah buys discounted gold & silver bullion, as much as he can. Timmah has seen this movie before and he knows how it ends.
There's definitely a lot of propaganda against gold bugs, probably because the TPTB are deeply scared of them.
I don't really have an exit plan with the gold I stack, but I can't fault someone for questioning the widsom of putting everything in precious metals.
To me the best case for gold and silver is they are getting close to being under the cost of production. That's not going to last forever, even the manipulators have finally hit a wall.
Persons with regular jobs and lives/wives to attend don't have the time to organize, track, and protect all the variant digital asset simulacra. Thus, for practical reasons, AgAu becomes the only feasible game in town.
My 2 grams: The author makes too many unsubstantiated assumptions to have a provable valid argument.
It is assnine to assume that without gold or gold being held up as the highest form of money that there can be no financial markets.
Financial markets sound or otherwise are simply constructs of human perception.
There are no absolutes.
"It is assnine to assume that without gold or gold being held up as the highest form of money that there can be no financial markets."
No, it is not.
If honest money does not exist, that is, gold or silver. Then what is it that you are holding in your hand or storing electronically? A piece of paper or a computer memory location with a number in it.
Money is an exchange media that substitutes for barter. A chicken farmer does not need to carry his chickens around with him and cut them into pieces to make smaller purchases. As long as the exchange media is an agreed upon media and cannot be counterfeited then it works for everyone.
If what you mean by sound money is something that cannot be counterfeited, then I agree. However, it does not have to be gold or silver. The intrinsic value (as measured by utility) of gold and silver is essentially zero for the general public. They have no use for it except as a paper weight.
The problem we have is that there is one class of people (bankers) who have given themselves the power to infinitely counterfeit/create money and the rest of us who are dependent on their money. With an infinite and exclusive right to create/counterfeit the exchange media, they have given themselves virtually infinite power... and that power can, has in the past and is currently destroying countries and their sovereignty.
But, it is assnine to say that only gold can be a proper exchange media.
If it wasn't rigged, the price of gold would climb.
Investors would buy gold instead of fiat paper dollars.
The value of the dollar would be near worthless.
Inlation would climb.
It's not a hard question to answer?
A simple explanation in my opinion is, if the government (banks) are trying to discourage me from buying it, I'm all in.
I see, and what use do YOU have for gold?
Set aside your paradigm that you have been conned into believing that gold is valuable and tell me what "value"/use it has for you.
IMO, this is just another con and the people who are telling us that gold price has been suppressed may be right, but for the the wrong reasons.
Personally, I believe that gold and other commodities were rigged to go higher (they inflated too high too fast) and are currently inflated above their intrinsic value to people.
"Suppressing the gold price is rather like turning off a fire alarm because you can’t stand the noise."
No. Suppressing the gold price is like turning off a fire alarm because you are safely out of the theater and you don't care if those still trapped inside are consumed by the fire. [ie you don't want the hoi polloi to know that they are in danger, while you - the 1% - quietly steal out of harm's way].
All the financial markets are rigged these days, why should gold be different?
But gold may be one of the first to break free.
Of course if the entire economy implodes, that doesn't necessarily mean it goes up!
It may spike first on a physical market squeeze, that may be the signal for something else to break, and then - whatever, dudes and dudettes.
It does not matter what the nominal price of Gold is. What is important is what you can buy with it. Gold does well in a deflationary as well as an inflationary environment. Gold is "wealth insurance"!
Tuco
Buy physical with cash when it's at or below industry average all-in costs. No margin, no hurry, no life-changing size.
Wait as long as necessary. If you don't have the time, don't do it.
Fairly soon people from nations that are not failing like ours is, that are still under sane and masculine leadership, will come to these fair shores and buy every ounce in sight.
Industry all in costs in China are far below $1100. One bowl of rice one pick one prisoner.
It's all part of the skim. If you actually produce something of value you don't have to skim.
I spelled out the exact reason why it matters in my lawsuits against Juergen Fitschen of Deutsche Bank and HSBC for gold and platinum price manipulation respectively. The answer is that we are heading for hyperstagflation, and gold is the only alternative currency. When they manipulate the price of gold they must dump our national bullion reserves in the Far East, which means the UK, the US and Europe end up in Weimar 2.0 without an escape route.
The case is progressing well. I am due to see Herr Fitschen on the 11th of November in the Frankfurt Court. HSBC court date has not been set, but all sides and have send and received their final questionaiires, so I am hoping some time in October or earlier.
For progress reports check www.kingoftherepublic.com.
In an unfettered economy that is utilizing money, usually gold, as productivity increases the "price" of money goes up. That is because more goods and services, wealth, are chasing the same amount of money. Ultimately the same amount of money will buy more goods on the other side of the exchange.
In an economy that "prints" money, fiat, on demand, the result is a decrease in the amount of goods and services that "money" can procure--price inflation. While this is transpiring, increased productivity is increasing the "price" of real money, gold, which means that it ultimately can buy more goods and services--real money increases in value.
To hide their theft, the banksters and their violent backers, government, must reduce the value of "real" money, gold, to hide the decreasing value of their product, fiat. And since "printing" is really theft, they are hiding their criminality.
An American, not US subject.
"Guillotine the Fed!"
Is it just me but I remember no one screaming Manipulation when Gold was $1900 nor did any one at that time cry out for the paper traders to get out of the market as they were distorting the Phizz ride higher than it should be.
If Phys holders really knew the value of gold they would have taken advantage of the paper trades and sold for profit above the actual price then bought again when it fell back below the "known real price"
There is solid proof of gold price manipulation, and I submitted it to the courts. The cases are imminent.
www.kingoftherepubic.com
The PM analysts were still showing the calculations based on the quantity of fiat created versus price of gold back then... and $1900 wasn't even close. One of the more interesting little tidbits about the hunt brothers' silver "manipulation"... if they were manipulating silver why did gold go up so high back then? The $ price of gold and silver didn't come back down back then till Volcker raised interest rates to > 20% and the COMEX forced cash only settlements in the exchanges..... I didn't notice any event in terms of interest rate increases or COMEX forced liquidations that actually forced the dollar price of the PMs down except paper manipulation... especially in 2011.
Its okay not to believe that there is flagrant manipulation and it is okay to believe it is heavily manipulated. Time will tell what the truth is about it all. PM stackers and writers just don't want everyone to be on the wrong side of the truth. I read a story about a porter at a hotel in Germany prior to the weimar hyperinflation that had 2 gold ounces during the event and bought the hotel from the owner with the 2 ounces... don't know the validity of the story but it makes sense...given the hyperbolic curve of the day.
That calculation is only good if you are on a gold standard, we are not and will not be
The Hunt brothers were NOT manipulating the price of silver. They were using legitimate means to buy it and corner the market. They would have succeeded if the Comex, or whomever was the clearing agent, hadn't changed the rules for margin to protect their own interests (because they would have had to deliver the physical silver).
So, the Hunt brothers were trying to corner the Silver market so the price of Silver would stay the same or go down!?
Tuco
The only thing that matters is who you know, not what you know...
When all is over you will need to exchange your PMs for whatever is considered money - the stuff you pay with to get stuff. That money will be digital and controlled - not even bitcoin will escape. We are moving out of paper money rapidly and after the shock all paper money will be useless. You will not get shit for your PMs, nobody will want it.
Cause, it's who you know, not what you know.
Greetings from Davos.
If the Gold price is rigged why can I buy real physical Gold at the paper price? If there was a shortage of the real stuff the price for 'real' would be higher than 'paper' but it's not.
I understand your sentiments to some extent.... however 15 years ago I didn't see "We Buy Gold" signs and stores on every corner. I'll start selling when they start putting up signs "We Sell Gold"
because your purchase of a few ounces makes a difference? Central banks can lease, and re-lease, the same TONS of gold over and over and you want to believe that because you can find your ounce here and there, that there is no problem?
Humans get addicted to trace amounts of gold .Literally
See :
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2009/02/gold-licks.html
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2009/03/gold-licks-update.html
What happened to the world's missing gold ?
They ate it !
Every little bit helps .
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/04/recent-doggerland-treasure.html
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2010/02/alexanders-loot.html
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2011/11/atlantis-colonies-ii.html
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2013/12/mmdinare-submarine-ruins-andre-wil...
If I'm wrong , there's always
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2008/07/xenophobia.html
I believe it was Hjalmar Schacht at the Reichs Bank in the late 30's,who
resigned instead of approving of Hitlers financial manipulations.
When was the last time you heard of a Central Banker resigning in protest?
The fact that he was indicted at Nuremburg,and acquitted,speaks volumes.
Some death camps had been established by 1937-38,but Schacht's era was before all
the rough stuff got started,the Anschluss in Austria and the west approved
dismemberment of Czechoslovakia excepted.
It needs to be clearly recorded that the German currency was regaining health when
an Austrian bank failed,Kredit-Anstalt,and with the failure of two other medium size
German banks,started the slide into hyper-inflation.
Also the German Gov't at the time,Hitler or anybody else,started doing trade by barter
with the Soviet Union,food and raw materials for manufactured items.
Needless to say the west did not like this end run around paper currencies.
Compare this to the way that world trade has evolved in the last ten years.
"... the German Gov't at the time,Hitler or anybody else,started doing trade by barter
with the Soviet Union,food and raw materials for manufactured items.
Needless to say the west did not like this end run around paper currencies."
Nor did they like this breaking of the global embargo of trade with the Soviet Union! Maybe Rothschild did play a dirty trick on England by smuggling Lenin from Switzerland to Russia, but by 1919 the world's bankers and their governments had all recoiled in horror at what they had unleashed, and they combined to hermetically seal the heretic state. By 1920 it was nearly impossible for a person to get in or out of Russia, never mind a consignment of goods. Until Germany broke the boycott.
This is captured dramatically - and authentically - in Warren Beatty's movie Reds.
A strong analogy could be made to what the Empire is playing with when it overthrows inconvenient governments by tapping into the anger of the people and unleashing "color revolutions". We may well soon see the fruit of their playing with fire in Ukraine, if a situation develops where neither Russia nor NATO can step in to reassert control!
I remember talking to mo mo chasers buying gold coins at $1800+ a few years ago. Crying they got in so late and begging Jesus for a $100 or $200 dip so they could buy more. They got what they wanted but instead they sold all crying and bitching the whole time. That's part of how you "manage" the gold market. Take all the weak hands money and scare them so bad they never come back. They don't want Joe six packs having success saving in gold. TPTB probably built gold to $1900 so they could whip say the little guys before it goes to $5,000. I'm glad the sentiment in gold is so bad and it's near a 3 year low. I want more gold. more gold. more gold. more gold. more gold. more gold. and more silver.
I agree. I thought the whole runup and then complete crushing was all a setup to destroy public sentiment as much as possible. It keeps the infinite money printing game going a little longer....
Traditionally, the price of gold and the interest rate were solid indicators of economic health. No longer is that true since we have CBs strenuously struggling to distort the rates and prices to match their propaganda.
Malinvestment based on these distortion is epidemic proportions.
Stories on gold manipulation are always good for clicks.
The rigging of gold matters because it allows the printing and spending of so much fiat it now threatens the economic destruction of the west.
If they had left the market to its own, we would never have reached the precipice we are currently staring into.
There would have been no financing for the endless wars, the millions of dead, maimed and homeless would be alive, whole and sleeping in their beds.
That's why it matters.
Exactly, Gold is the canary in the coal mine. Manipulation of prices lower is like providing the canary with a tiny oxygen mask.
Tuco
Much closer is the dead parrot in the Monty Python pet shop skit.
http://securegold.us/
Look into it....
The current low price of PMs looks like FED desperation to me
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Actually, this is a quote from the CIA handbook.
Tuco
Yertle The Turtle (pg 17) - "And the turtles, of course...all the turtles are FREE as turtles and, maybe, ALL creatures should be"
Isn't this what the Christians did to the Aztecs?
Maybe, but it was not in their bible to do so.
There’s more than one way to rig the gold market.
There’s the one where big banks short the metal with free credit from the Federal Reserve. There might be a dozen or so such banks doing this.
Then there is the method by which vital information is withheld from people. This method is perpetrated by hundreds, perhaps, thousands of so-called financial advisors.
By “vital information” I mean, ‘What are factors impacting the gold price not named by those so-called advisors… factors such as “insurance on bank deposits”, “cash equivalents” that show up on corporation balance sheets, Mortgage Backed Securities (owned by Fed Res), the gold carry trade, the gold that may or may not be in Fort Knox, foreign held US Treasury securities?
All these are real factors because all are ultimately backed (collateralized) by gold. Once you learn this, it should make your head spin.
and both Gold & Silver getting smacked at the Sunday opening
It only matters what your profit is in dollars, minus the 28% tax and inflation, when you sell.
Stop! The USD is rising because of capital flows out of every shithole in the world as people panic out of ISIS head choppingland, Ukrainian Perogyland, Ebola regions, and every other shithole there is......
Gold pumpers never stop "da pump. Unlike before though, no one cares...
Admit it
You lost
USD is the new gold
Seriously I do feel for every prepper or fish who believed these pumpers and bought a tiny house in the Ozarks with the sasquatches
I really do feel for you
Blum, Blum, Blum at about Blum, Blum, Blum again.
http://theendisnow.com/1/2/3/4/consilium.jpg
Remember Charley Brown teacher? Decipher bitch!
It looks like interet rates are going up. It's over.
Letting the price of gold rise would actually make governments (that had any) stronger and create a bigger population of the wealthy.
The problem is how much of that gold would re-enter government control to be fractionalized.
Things seem to be so fucked up that "they" will continue to manipulate the PM's till they can't.
Then they will seize them.
http://sofiaglobe.com/2014/09/09/diver-finds-2750-year-old-gold-coin-in-...
I agree with most of what is said in this piece. It's clear to anyone that follows gold that it is being manipulated, and tightly controled. It will only go up if TPTB have positions that will benefit by an upward gold move or if the constant purchaing of gold by China, Russia and collective central banks finally bust up this cartel. I truly beleive gold will test it's multi year lows so more of the unscrupulous cartel players can get in, then gold will start it's upward ascent. USA and Rothchild Inc will try to push the globe around with thier military and financila powers but one day it could blow up. One thing for sure is many people and institutions will be driven out of their positions on this go round.
It is testimony to the astronomical insanity of mankind that investors in gold... do not demand physical gold.
That's a quite a bit like buying a car... but being completely happy to only receive the title to the car, but no car. How does that make sense? It doesn't, not to any sane sentient being. Which only goes to show, most humans are utterly, completely, overwhelmingly insane.
Those investors in paper gold are nothing more than bullion banks and speculators. Real people demand the real thing.
Gold can be an investment, a car not so much unless you buy a classic and put it away as you would physical gold. The car is most often a tool, the physical gold is an investment, the paper gold a speculation (just like everything else "paper").
It does make sense, depending upon how much gold you are buying.
If you are buying a few ounces, it is no biggie to put them in your pocket, take them home and throw them in your safe.
However, if you are buying 1 ton... can you put it in your pocket and throw it in your safe?
Do you want to store it at home without protection?
When it comes time to sell it, will your local coin shop have the financial resources ($36M at today's price) to buy it?
There is a gold company here in Thailand, Aurora (see http://www.aurora.co.th/ ) that Is now selling "paper" contracts as well. You can buy today, they will issue you a paper receipt/contract, and you can receive your physical about one week later. Or, you can opt to not receive physical, and hold the paper only. They will buy the paper back from you.
If you lose your paper contract, they have the records and can reissue the contract.
I assume they are doing this for both parties' convenience.
BTW, check out a chart of Money supply over Gold price since QE
started (this is discussed/illustrated here: http://www.goldmoney.com/research/research-archive/gold-versus-the-money... )
Another thing to ponder: how is it that food and energy prices are exploding but PM prices are going down?
Who said "there's a sucker born every minute"? Maybe we must amend that to "every second"!
As for your last question... you're kidding, right? The answer is totally obvious. The reason food is going up while gold is going down is... wait for it... people take possession of the food they buy, but accept paper promises when they buy gold. And so, almost ZERO supply of gold is required to satisfy huge demand. Printing paper promises is cheap. Very cheap.
Hey, want to buy some pieces of paper that I'll print up right now that say you own gold? Hell, I'll only charge you $1100 per ounce for that paper.
"that it is being manipulated, and tightly controled"... You mean like stocks,bonds,realestate and commodities in general?
Its ALL rigged and tightly and controlled for fuks sake.
Como?
Su Espanol es una huevada.
How about leaving the country you abandoned at the dock( or riverside) and start thinking of assimilating into American society.with the goal of becoming an American. First step: COMMUNICATE IN ENGLISH and if you cant, make the effort to learn it.
I get a kick out of contractors bringing a crew of men on the property to get badged. When they give me their honduran or mehican IDs, but no green card
, I hang onto their ID cards and make them stand in a corner and make them sweat thinking they're busted while I get the people that respect.tbe rules.
Then I call their foeman to the leper colony corner and hand those IDs to the foreman, not the aliens, and lecture him on the perception we have that his company has little regard for legal rules and maybe our next contractor will be more.diligent in who hs brings to our business.
Is this a terrorist coded message?
Glad to see Jet packs apart of DOD development
We Were Promised Jetpacks - Sore Thumb (Live in London) | Moshcam http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0a4s9yAtBeA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0a4s... Fuck off cunts licking bastards. You're going to be a lock, pull,and kill experiment. Good luck passing that law. Your dumb ass will end up in the hash rife target sight. The same assault rife taking off your head is being funded by BIS and American Taxpayers.By golly I think I have it. What a scam is all I can say but let me run this by you guys for opinions.
Banks have gotten the market to expect change in language this week by the fed. Why? In hopes it goes higher of course. I could be totally wrong but I don't see the fed changing anything at all. So if the banks purposely set the expectation that the language changes about interest rate rises but it doesn't then they would expect the market to zoom higher again wouldn't they?
What I think is the market sells into the fed and when the fed doesn't change it zooms back up but I think most would sell into this because China growth is slowing and it's probably worse than most are saying. Without the constant pumping into Chinese investment to try to obtain unsustainable 7% yoy growth which is just about impossible and everyone realizing world wide growth will be just about flat if not down over the next coming years as people again have releveraged instead of deleveraging the problem just became more large than last time.
I won't be trading off this. My bets are already placed in leveraged put positions deep in money. Also note most bear funds have now moved into cheap puts instead of shorting because they realized they were the ones gunning the market higher in having to cover the shorts. With puts you just sit and wait. You either gain or lose all if you are wrong.
G. Cleveland and I are still non-negotiable. Our return will mark the end.
Just watch Japan - how good printing money is
So if the price of gold can be manipulated, how goes going on a gold standard solve anything? oh, that's right, it doesn't.
I thought the reason was that gold manipulation is an illegal activity because the Comex or whomever is selling massive amounts of commodity they don't actually have.
As a realtor once told me, " It's illegal to sell a house that you don't own."
Rigged or not, gold is headed down for a while...
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/gold-elliott-wave-update-for-july-2014/
Charlie don't surf – and especially the Elliott Wave.
Even with all the manipulation in place, gold is still way higher comparing to a basket of commodities plus labor. And silver is even worse. Apparently, humans go crazy in times of ZIRP, bidding up PMs, so a bit of price suppression in that department may be what is required to maintain sanity in our fiat-based world. Call me crazy but I am starting to think about shorting PMs.
No, you should totally do it! It will turn out so well for you in the end.
It only matters if you are the one getting your ox gored. Some day [and I hope it is sooner rather than later] the manipulators are going to step in and sell 10,000 Comex futures contracts expecting a monkey-hammering and somebody [probably the Chinese or Russians] is gonna say "buy it, got any more?" and that's when the real fun begins in earnest.
www.traderzoo.mobi
I think with the further division between east and west we're going to see governments transition to stronger currencies rather than weaker. I'm guessing higher interest rates and a significant drop in the stock market is coming. As a side note of the three super powers I think China is the weakest, that being said I really think they expect to come out of this as the dominant country. (Although I am beginning to feel they might not mind sharing the title with Russia) Anyway, it will be interesting watching their decisions whether they decide on a currency based currency and/or full out war.
if the gold price is a good barometer of inflation, when prices are rising, then (axiomatically) when prices are falling it must also be a good barometer of deflation. eurozone inflation is approaching zero, us inflation is getting lower and gold is following nicely. QED!
The bastards will do as they wish, subsidizing the cost of mining the ore, if necessary, so as to keep the nominal price cheap, with endless fiat debt dollars. It works until it doesn't. Someone with 5 years left to live may not see the end of this. As for me, I continue to accumulate physical, but the endeavor has become Kafka-esque.
everyones situation, and gut beliefs are different.
i've got people depent on me, so food, water, basic health needs, and a way to protect them, and their needs, are priority #1.
me, and my wife funded 401K's for close to 40 yrs., along with, (as it turns out possibly the biggest mistake of our lives), millions of others.
now it looks as if 401K's are the low hanging fruit for govt. conviscation.
gold will never be worth nothing.
Counterparty risk. Apologies for waffling.