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More Than Just Gas: Is This Natural Resource The Reason For The Ukraine Civil War?
Earlier today, we got a definitive confirmation that when Obama was talking about "costs" when jawboning on the ongoing Ukraine civil war, he envisioned not only Germany, and thus Europe, both of which are teetering on the edge of a triple-dip recession due to Russian sanctions, but Ukraine itself. The reason: the Ukraine economy appears to have ground to a halt following an overnight report that the war-torn country's industrial output plummeted 21.4% Y/Y in August, above the 18% estimate, and some 12.7% on a monthly basis. As the chart below shows, this was the biggest drop in industrial production since the global crisis of 2009 and followed a 12% fall year-on-year in July.
As the FT further added, according to an EBRD forecast earlier today, the Ukrainian economy will contract 9% this year, a far greater contraction than assumed in the IMF's bailout (odd how that always happens). Accordingly, this "makes sustainability of Kiev's government debts much more doubtful, and has sparked concerns that the country will eventually be forced to default and restructure."
As skepticism grows that Ukraine will be the next Greece, only without the backstop safety net of the EUR currency, bondholders are starting to get skeptical, and overnight the yield on Ukraine bonds due April 2023 slid to 10.61%, the highest in 4 months on rising fears of a default.
And while the collapse, in either the economy or the bonds, were not surprising and were predicted here and many other places, what did seem out of place was the following observation by Reuters:
The statistics office said the main industries of Ukraine's Donetsk region, one of the areas where the war is most intense, had suffered, with coal extraction down almost 60 percent and steel production down by 30 percent.
In other words, while the most important commodity for Europe is gas, whose supply Russia largely controls on the margin, for Ukraine the one commodity, located deep within the perimeter of the raging civil war, and which it desperately needs to regain access to to stop its economic collapse, is the following (courtesy of Stratfor):
Which begs the question: are the massive stores of coal in the Donetsk region the main reason why Russia continues to support a civil war in just that region, a war which with every passing day means the Ukraine bankruptcy, and inevitable regime change, is also one day closer?
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You did hear the 'Absent Government obstructionism' part, right?
The 'in reserve' argument is an argument for central planning of resources.
It has always been socialists', communists', fascists', Plutocrats', Aristocrats', etc, argument that prices will not tell us where resources are most needed at any given time, and that people will not respond to price signals.
The problem is that they can't point to any sustained examples of where prices did not tell us, or where people did not respond.
We already know where the 'Centrally Planned Economy' story ends. We already know where the 'Price-Fixing Economy' ends. It ends with too many eaters and too few workers. Feel free to substitute your term of choice in place of 'eaters' (EBT holders, SS recipients, Dole recipients, unworking poor, peasants, etc).
Not enough production, too much consumption takes many forms that are all similar in character. Whether the prices are low but there is nothing to buy, or whether the prices are too high for most to afford, the message is the same - too little of the demanded production.
The logic holds true perfectly in all places eventually. And like money-printing, more such intervention simply increases the obstruction and deformation of the economy.
Wait a minute. Are you suggesting that Joe Biden's son is on the board of directors of the wrong energy company?
/sarc
Why does it have to be either gas or coal or food etc etc.? How about all of the above??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-2761038/Russia-demands-changes-Ukraine-EU-trade-deal.html
Based on the above article, one can construe that some administrative mistakes have been made that can be addressed in the next round of negotiations with Kazakhstan and Belarus. Give it 5+ years and all three (Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus) will be happy with their new geopolitical/economic relationships with Europe, Korea, Japan, China, North America.
lol.
I guess you think the dollar will still be going strong in 5 years, eh?
Yes, euro is already now dead. What do you want to take as a bench mark?
The investors will flee EU and invest in US, this is one of the purposes of the Ua war. To save dollar.
Could you please explain to the class how exactly thats going to play out? In your mind.
This is about isolating and bringing down Russia so that we can get at any and all resources over there. This is like 1953 all over again in Iran, but we're in a much worse position to begin with. Russia has a real shot at killing the dollar, which will kill our prospects at exploiting resources, not just in Russia, but elsewhere too. Here's the summary for why we overthrew Mossadeq in the 1950s:
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB28/summary.pdf
Notice the parallels between that and today. Just substitute Russia for USSR.
"... so that we can get at any and all resources over there."
we? since when does US gov represents we the people? if this is really about resources then those are reserved only for the corporations but this is also hard to believe because there is no real economy left.
i'm still inclined towards the 'war is about distraction and further power grab from citizenry' thanks to the "common enemy" bullshit. after the fall of soviet union the terrorism was invented, now it's back to the old playbook because no sane person can take the terrorism any more seriously than the santa claus.
Since we are letting our so called leaders run amok, we share in the responsibility. This is on us just as much as it is on the psychopaths calling the shots.
Putin is taking shots at the dollar, and our oligarchs aren't going to go down with a fight. Do you really want to send your sons and daughters off to fight in a foreign land for a status quo that is unsustainable? Do you really want to risk mushroom clouds over a status quo that is unsustainable? Resources are a means to power, and dollar hegemony is a means to resources. If we lost the ability to import oil overnight, how would your local police and DHS power those MRAPs? How would food be shipped to the store?
Dollar hegemony is power, and it is unsustainable. That does not mean that those who stand to lose from its loss will not try to sustain it. This is insanity. These are interesting times.
agreed on the responsibility.
i guess my point is that power resides more in the immaterial (fear, complaisance etc), not so much in the material (resources, weapons etc) because all the latter wouldn't be enough against people united. it's difficult to classify the dollar to one or another. maybe it's universal.
the sheeple give the power to the rulers, it's not taken at gunpoint. though it's true that it's done through deceit.
If the miners aren't mining they'll be fighting and whoever's on the other side is gonna lose.
What kind of coal - anthracite or bituminous? That will tell us a LOT about how important the region is.
its antracit.
thez have been sellingit for example to Czech rep., Germany to the iron and steel producers. They replaced, let me say, the closed (during 80s and 90s ) UK, Belgium and German mines.
i don't see putin complaining. russians know exactly how to play this game and they are kicking west's ass. i sure don't know who's going to come out as a winner from this conflict but i sure as hell know who is going to lose this conflict. we the fucking little people. ukrainians are just the first casualties. but if it really comforts anyone, they are free to pick sides, though this means one is nothing more than useful idiot who mistakes propaganda for geopolitics.
Russian paratroopers reported to be securing the Donestk Airport
https://twitter.com/lennutrajektoor/status/512638024157777921/photo/1
why do you spam the discussion with CIA propaganda?
Hang on, I thought Russia invaded last month, and the month before that, and the month before that.....and youre telling us they're only now trying to take Donetsk Airport?
I think that if Russia invades with more than just a few Spetznas and FSB, we'll damned sure know it. I'd believe that they have a few guys on the ground in an "intelligence" capacity, but I cannot recall any real Russian invasions throughout history that were subtle.
NO!
Russia will not allow a NATO member Ukraine. The war would be on even if east Ukraine would be piss-poor.
The US made a coup in Ukraine, Russia is making sure that this government fails miserably.
Winter is coming.
I think that when a coup government decides to try to bomb and shell separatists right away rather than call for talks on autonomy, it has done a good job on its own of failing miserably.
Ukraine has a lot of natural resources - good soil, coal, some minerals, and of course gas pipelines. The EU expands to include Ukraine to its detriment debt wise. The IMF simply wants to help the west and the usual suspect oligarchs rob and defraud Ukraine of its natural wealth as was done in russia under Yeltsin.
Russia doesn't want NATO missiles, troops and bases on its doorstep, in lands that were Russia proper 60 years ago. It is unquestionably the US and NATO that are imperialist, bankers' empires - what the fuck was Libya??
Russia's response has, in fact, been as restrained as US government and corporate MSM rhetoric has been absurdly hyperbolic.
Its like the US/UK/SA/Israel Deep State has gone insane. Their gaming scenarios are telling them that the financial cataclysm of 2008 is fatal, so they have everything to lose if they don't make this gamble with WWIII.
Except, of course, Israel is banking on any any blowback hitting their zombie robot, the US, and Israel pretty much escaping intact and free to infect another, healthier host.
NB - If Scotland votes "yes", it could save the planet by throwing off the Deep States timeline. GO SCOTLAND!
They have gone insane. They're risking nuclear war to maintain a shitty status quo because they don't know what else to do. I've got news for them: You don't need an EMP attack in the event of an all out nuclear war to take down our power grid. The nuclear fireballs will destroy enough infrastructure to do that anyway, not to mention the ground effect shit from the Compton effect. All the shit that they rely on for a comfortable life goes away. They may be psychopathic oligarch fuckfaces, but they still have to eat, breath and shit. They still get sick and they still bleed, just like everybody else. Even ignoring the effects of fallout on people, they depend on the infrastructure that would get destroyed just as much as the sheep.
The reason why the US wants to f*ck with Ukraine/Russia???
It's the HEGEMONY, Stupid!!!
I dunno, in todays 'consumer-driven economies', if you kill consumers... isn't it apparent that you're also killing the economy? Just sayin'...
In a manufacturing and production based economy, if you kill the workforce, doesn't it play a part in the drop in production? Unless you have an army of robots to replace them, killing civilians who work is counter productive.
I wonder how closely the last red dip in that chart matches the timeline of when we began dumping that $500 B to destabilize them.
Petrogold versus coaldollar. Or, wars over coal? Must be bad with oil i guess. Real bad, like an implosion before 2020.
Actually, Russia has shut down most coal mines in the Eastern Donbass in Rostov Oblast which is just across the border with the Ukraine. They are not profitable.
What's the profit outlook for coal when there's no gas available?
The only natural resource of Ukraine I'm interested is pretty blond blue eyed girls.
An abundant resource in that blessed country
There are a bunch of real reasons:
1) The petrodollar/Israel/Saudi reason.
The wars in the middle east are partly about neocons wanting to destroy countries they think are threats to Israel, partly about preserving the petrodollar and partly about the Saudis wanting the US to destroy Iran. Russia blocked the planned US attack on Syria so the US state dept. organised the pro-western coup in Ukraine as part of that ongoing battle.
2) The dollar reason.
Most of the world wants to move away from the dollar as reserve currency because as things stand the US print & borrow regime is effectively taxing the world to fund the US. Any small country that tries to break away on its own would get attacked so Russia and China have teamed up to provide a shield. The western media are making it all about Putin for propaganda narrative reasons.
(WWIII has already started over the dollar and petrodollar - it's just fingers crossed it doesn't go fully hot.)
3) The looting reason.
Most of these western-backed color revolutions are funded by outside forces and install governments who sign away the nation's assets to foreign corporations owned by the people who funded the revolution. They're basically a hostile takeover of entire nations. One of the first things the Yatsenuk govt. in Ukraine did was pass a law allowing foreign companies to buy 50% of Ukraine's gas reserves - the company Biden's son works for. The banking mafia really are just organized crime with law degrees.
As a large part of the over one million or more refugees come from Eastern Ukraine and are former mining and old industrial workers,Russia will use these workers in their own industries and locate them where needed.There's one gigantic joint gold project in the east with China and is probably the biggest gold mine in the world.China will take everything from mining,it's an unstoppable appetite.There's nothing for these Ukrainian workers to go home to and who in their right mind would go back to work for a neonazi backed government backed by NATO that bombs its' own people.With everyone knowing that a fascist regime is currently being rearmed during peacetalks,nobody trusts EU-US-Canada linked armed imports that will be used eventually on a bigger scale against people.In Calgary West,one of Stephen Harper's best neo-nazi buddies just got the boot from district conservative members and they are targeting Harper and his neonazi beliefs as well.
labor ducklings! the former Chinese socialist republic has been exhausted as a source of cheap labor (the Chinese started with prison labor remember, the jailed the intellectuals during the cultural revolution) now the global capitalists must go hunting for new places. the socialists in EE are relatively well educated, and as we have seen some are longing for the benefits of a fascist industrial society (or at least that's what their CIA sponsors have told them). Chinese communism is not communism at all, just a post industrial surrogate manufacturing state owned by workers who have no rights, (in the US the workers have rights, but they own nothing). the global hunt for labor hs taken some strange turns, none more that the short failed attempt to rationalize labor resources in Mexico, the maquiladora during the 80's, which suddenly vanished when China entered the picture. Mexico has a history of revolution, capitalists don't like that, unless of course they can run the things from behind the scenes but it maybe the drug cartels are too powerful and present an obstacle to CIA penetration. whatever, they are back in EE, and its fertile ground for flows of hot money, poor workers and environmental disasters. remember China has large coal reserves as well, or did. most of that is a big global cloud of crap that is drifitng over land which the US economic policy machine calls home. Ukraine is the new China.
No this is but one small "collection point", or lets call it what it really is "theft of natural resources" among many others...
If you want to know what the real reason is -look no further than right here!
Correction:
"Which begs the question: are the massive stores of coal in the Donetsk region the main reason why Putin regime started invasion in Ukraine in just that region, a war which with every passing day means the Ukraine bankruptcy, and inevitable occupation of Ukraine region which is valuable for Putin regime? "
No...the primary reason a "Putin" would be supporting the seperatists there is because a somehat pro-Russian (and not distinctly) elected President was violently ousted by fascists and western (read: Nato, CIA, Israeli, etc.) powers to try and stir up crap there on his border. I suspect the reason for that move was multiple but it seems they are a tad concerned about the USD reserve status and getting a pipline through Syria which Putin has helped Assad block by extension. And lets not forget they too are psychopaths who just love to see people die...there's that.
And "invasion"? Please...just stop with that...we are still waiting for any bulk video/photo evidence of this invasion which would now be months along and requiring massive supply lines and such...but all we get here from the ZATO trolls are links to stories with a couple graves claimed to be Russian soldiers and satallite fotos with no coordinates on them.
IF THERE'S AN INVASION...SHOW US!!!! If the side your're backing can't even produce WHAT SHOULD BE easy to come by evidence than I wouldn't count on their "strength" to HELP YOU much. Explain why it's not being run on MSM corporatist media 24/7 if this minimal evidence exists. Explain it...we are here waiting...just explain it.
And how would look a evidence that ruskie troll would admit as acceptable?
For example here is video of Russian tanks in Ukraine invading. That one in this video is T-72BM and it has special "Kontakt-5 Explosive Reactive" armor, that Ukraine army doesn't have - only Russian army.
But ruskie troll will tell that it was bought in a shop... right?
http://youtu.be/tL-yofb3HzU
Oh, yeh! Wait a second, there are 2 more proofs of "Russion envasion" made by a-la "Psaki news".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M6D-TzArF4&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZhKEIhcC8
See I told you! Ruskie troll wont admit any evidence, they are jusr ruskie trolls they know only how to troll
if you are a Western Ukrainian, please answer as to why you want to ally with the "west". the west is imperialistic and their financial system only makes a debt slave of its people. look to Greece to see your future, and that is a best case scenario dependent on the survivabilty of the whole system which appears to be rapidly deteriorating.
I'm from Latvia. I understand Russian well enough to get info from all sides and make decisions on my own what is going on.
I can tell you that Putin oligarch regime is fighting with US oligarch regime - they are both evil and have no good intentions for common man.
But that land belongs to Ukranians not Putin regime goons who are invading.
That is the point.
LOL isnt 25% of your population russian. and also they have no rights,no citizenship. i can see a russian revolution coming to Latvia
I remmber you! You are that ruskie troll who hide his self under Australian flag. That won't help :)
In Latvia anyone can take citizenship exam to become Latvian citizen. Thing is many ruskies don't want Latvian citizenship because than they will have to buy visa in order to travel to their relatives in Russia. So they choose not to become citizens in Latvia. So of course, those who are not citizens can't vote. Absolutely normal situation in any country. Any other option / rights are open.
So could you please enlighten me (if that is even possible for a ruskie troll) what you meant by "they have no rights"?
P.S. Russians are so "oppressed" that our capital city is run by their politicians :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nils_U%C5%A1akovs
lol
I am not a ruskie troll and i have nothing to do with russia or their women.first of all i was born in australia and live in sydney.also i have no idea about your country,politics or history.you are the best person for that because that is your backyard.all of your comments are anti russian because that is your belief. to me your belief is biased that no matter what you see the russians are bad people.
here is my proof
http://www.dw.de/russian-latvians-target-of-discrimination/a-17605939
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8630304.stm
1.) You are now performing what is called The "Red Herring" Fallacy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exdK7Lirngg because you are changing subject from Ukraine and fact that I proved that Russian tankes invading Ukraine to why my country in your opinion is so bad (so my arguments are bad?)
2.) Your "proof" those articles has question markes in the end and I can answer that no - there is no discrimination. As I told all these 20 years those Russians could pass exam and get their citizenship like Usakovs did and become mayor of Riga that is our capital city. Where is the problem?
3.) Fact is that russian minority who doesn't have Latvian citizenship doesn't know Latvian language, Latvian culture, Latvian history - nothing. Only Russian. Why would any country gave citizenship to those people who hate their country, that country language, that country culture, etc? Imagine that police oficer, fireguard, etc. would come to rescue a man but he didn't know it's language - how could he help?
You have to know history to have discussion about this topic. History is that USSR invaded Latvia, occupied it for 50 years. Send to Siberia by train wagons hundreds of thousand latvians to die there and in stead of those latvians send russians here to take those latrvian homes, land, etc. Altough they where minority here, they acted as rulers because they represented occupation force. So they didn't learned Latvians language, Latvian culture, Latvian history, etc. instead this occupation force that was minoruty forced majority to speak their language - russian. That is why as Latvian know this language. So after Latvia got it's independence they knew nothing about Latvian identity and for 20 years didn't learned nothing from it - nor language, nor culture, nothing. Majority of them hate Latvia and Latvians because USSR collapsed and they are not rules here anymore. Now, knowing that - it would be madness to give unloyal individuals who doesn't know anything about this country and wants Russian rule back - to give them citizenship. No, they have to pass exam. And look how many non-citizens are in Switzerland. It's normal. What is not normal that an italian who comes to Latvia can learn it's language and culture and become a TV star but russian who has lived all it's life in Latvia doesn't know a word in Latvian. It's shows you something.
If I'm a "ruskie troll" I am pretty damn good at what would be my "second language"...i.e. English...definately better than the UKIE FASCIST trolls on here. Yeah...no...I am actually a good ol' American mutt if you will...some Irish, English, Welsh and Pol. And probably a bunch of other crap...who knows? I'm an individual...the most persecuted minority on the planet these days.
Anyway...the video is from where? You say "Ukraine"...uh, maybe...where in the Ukraine? Is this Crimea? Is this somewhere in Eastern Ukraine? Is it in Russia? As you can tell (I would assume) there is absolutely no way to know this. I'm sitting here listening to the government that happens to lord over me in the US telling me they want to spend more of my unborn gradchildren's money to fight for "freedom" in the Ukraine. Have you been paying attention to my government liars at all over the last few decades? Have you noticed how they lie to get us to send our kids over to other countries to die for reasonas that never have anything to do with "freedom"? Have you noticed any of that? And you wonder why I would want some proof?
Why isn't this video running 24/7 on the propaganda networks here that are salivating trying to get popular support to "do more to help Ukraine"...when in reality the people in the east ARE UKRAINIAN AREN"T THEY? Is your glorious fascist controlled KIEV NOT KILLING UKRAINIANS IN THE EAST?
Why didn't you speak to any of my points and instead pull out another video/photo that we would have no way to verify? I know Russia is supporting the Eastern Ukrainians. No one here denies that...but you call it an "INVASION" and then provide this crap as "proof". I think Russia probably would invade if they thought the KIEV army had a chance of winning back the east and weren't determined to wipe out all the Russian speaking people there. And Russia wants it for resources, as a buffer against NATO 9you forget the Georgia fiasco a few years ago apparently)...and to help the oligarchs in Russia. WE GET THAT! But fight your own damn fight...and if you can't get enough support from your own people to do it than it is "BY DEFNITION" not popular enough.
Why do you UKIE FASCIST TROLLS keep coming on here calling us names for not wanting to spill our blood or treasure (like we have any really) for your lame ass causes that ARE IN FACT causes that serve a group of global elites that want you to be their slave. Sorry to break that news to you...but if you "WIN" with these guys on your side...YOU REALLY LOSE THEN.
So what kind of "evidence" do we want? I don't know...maybe "real evidence" that can be verified in some way shape or form. And I want you to explain to us all why the western media won't even run this crap when it would serve them to have this if it is such great "evidence"? It's a simple question that you UKIE FASCIST trolls never ever ever even attempt to answer.
And you won't now either will ya?
I asked you want evidence would be ok for ruskie troll like you, but you didn't answer that.
Ok, so what is your version where on earth would such tanks could drive with seperatists flags if not in Ukraine? Would they drive in Russia? With seperatist flags?
You realy made me smile with these pathetic excuses :)
For any nontroll person who is interested in evidence would be absolutely clear that those tanks with seperatist flags are not driving in anywhere else on planet except seperatist invaded teritory in Ukraine and that tank with specific armor only for Russian army comes from Russia, so that means there are Russian tanks in Ukraine. So Russia is invading Ukraine disguised as separatists.
To continue any discussion on that topic would be like this:
http://youtu.be/3yX_1gJ_51M
Keep on denying reality and evidence - that true nature of a ruskie troll.
WTF is "seperatist invaded territory"? Is that territory "invaded" by the seperatists (who are Ukrainians right?)? Or is the seperatist territory being "invaded" by their allies? Kind of a contradiction in terms wouldn't you say? UGH. Why do I bother.
I told you in the first reply what we want...something that can be confirmed and validated. Date stamps...coordinates...something! So why wouldn't Russia have supplied the seperatists with the tanks you speak of? So they supply them with everything else but these specific tanks...only a Russian can drive these particular tanks. Eastern Ukrainians aren't able to drive these specific tanks for WHAT REASON? And that they have a seperatist flag on them doesn't prove Russia "is invading" the Ukrain. We already know and agree that there are seperatists there...although some would argue that the junto that violently overthrew the elected government in kiev were in fact the "seperatists" as they chose to disregard the votes of their fellow Ukrainians (you want to ever speak to that point or just continue to obfuscate). And you really think I am in Russia...or I'm a Russian troll? Really? You are dilusional.
Fine...buddy up with the global corporatist fascists your so fond of and see where you end up...in a heaping pile of steaming dead bodies is where you'll be.
And you didn't once give an ounce of interest to what would be OUR CONCERNS (I'm not assuming to speak for everybody but I know more than a few here share this feeling)...that you are asking us for MORE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND FOR US TO SEND OUR KIDS OVER THERE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR BUTT, HELPING YOU KILL MORE OF YOUR FELLOW UKRAINIANS IN THE EAST, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER ENOUGH TO HAVE POPULAR SUPPORT TO DO IT.
We don't trust our own government let alone one you put in power there by force and farce. Did you happen to notice our government is already giving you billions of our dollars without caring what we think about it (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-18/white-house-explains-where-your...)? YOu are supporting a puppet government who will sell your country out to their crony friends in the big banks and corporations...and politico cronies. How can't you see that?
But I guess "that is true nature of UKIE troll". You're treading water here...at best. I'm trying to throw you a life preserver but you won't grab it...whatever. Go to the front lines there and put you beliefs in action then pal. Prove to us all that we were wrong. Bring us back video after video of collumns of Russians invading and photos of their massive campsites and convoys and such...hell, I'd take just one or two videos and some good pictures that include some sorts of reference points that we can identify as in the Ukraine...and that these people are Russians and not just eastern Ukrainians.
By the way...are there any paid western mercenaries fighting on the Kiev side? If so...how is that any different than paid Russians being on the eastern Ukrainian side?
I LITERALLY don't have a dog in this fight (although I know you will still claim I am a "ruskie"...hehehe...it's kind of cute). Other than silly comments like the Russians are going to take over the world or something ridiculous like that that I've heard here...why should I care more about an illegitimate government in Kiev winning than eastern Ukrainians who are fighting against them to rule themselves? It's an honest question...although I doubt I get an honest answer.
More quality, less quantity.
Where on earth and in what time those Russian tanks with seperatist flags could drive in streets if not in teritory those "seperatists" has invaded?
I won't go in circles with a troll or maybe you are just plain stupid. Read again what I have wrote. This proves Russian tanks has invaded Ukraine teritory. Something Putin regime is denying and saying that Russia has no part in that conflict.
You realy are only discrediting your self here.
Now you can charge your ruskie troll batteries with this, it will make you feel confident about your self again:
http://youtu.be/o1eHKf-dMwo
This is one fun material:
http://youtu.be/XYJwnCsMBfo
How much does BrawndoTM pay you to say this stuff man? I watched a video today and seen what you people did to those folks in the Trade Union Building. You murdered people with fucking hatchets, women and children you sick fucker! You seriously think that a rational human being is going to start championing your cause? Youre psychopaths, murderers, thugs, killers! The people you support were taking people, wounded people, out and just executing them, FINISHING THEM OFF!! Piss off!! I seen the videos man. Thats the evidence i seen to convince me of whats right. Not some stupid video of some tanks driving around god knows where. I watched innocent people jump out of windows, watched them die. Seen the blood soaked rooms that your cause supports! I'll have none of it!! Savages! Murderers! The people you want me to support were killing kids with hatchets! While the building around them burned! You gave no quarter for women and children! Explain to me why you think you can demand quarter or sympathy from the likes of me or people like me!?
That was a good old fashioned American ass whoopin' son!
+A baggeillion
As good a reason as any for a pre-emptive war .
See why 1914 and 2014 are so eerily similar .
See https://www.academia.edu/8380144/The_Machine_Gun_triggered_WW_I
no matter where you look, the landlords are looking for food...
Labor, Rent, Time & Parenting
The idea that government could build cookie-cutter rural communities, with replication of global city values, automating best business practice of objective-based management, should have screamed stupidity, to somebody, somewhere in the banking system, but systems closed by peer pressure cannot see beyond themselves.
If you want to increase production relative to consumption, to build wealth, you want rent inflation in the global city and rent deflation in the rural community. Automatically increasing rents in rural communities, controlled by absentee landowners in the city, is a recipe for economic disaster, because it shorts out the economy.
You have natural resources, capital stock, and labor on the margin, all of which is labor, in different event horizons, most of which is non-human. Those natural resources have to be processed and delivered, in a symbiotic system. Embedding global city value systems, in the form of regulated rents, into rural community production costs is a great way to produce real estate inflation, at the cost of lost purchasing power.
As the big city majorities become increasingly myopic, they strangle themselves. Cradle-to-grave government is much more forgiving than nature, and yes, love and respect is the best way to raise children, but what does the global city know about loving and respecting nature?
The point of currency is consumption, money to money, gravity. The point of labor is production. As a laborer, you measure in time and make the currency translation to implement the discount, by event horizon along the always bankrupt credit gradient. There is much more land in rural communities than people to put it into effective production, so rural land prices to producers should be falling precipitously, to bring it back into production.
As a laborer, you can get timbered land and build a home in three months, at near negligible cost, under real economic conditions. Under Civil Law, rent is $800/mo plus rapidly inflating utilities, and you make $10/hr, chasing 20% inflation. A mortgage means that you are promising to pay an increasing percentage of your time in rent to landlords, who would otherwise starve.
The landlords cannot do the math because they have armies of voters willing to impel themselves and become part of the road, to empire. Europe telling parents in rural America, Scotland, or anywhere else, how to raise their children, thinking that there is always cheaper labor in China and Africa to exploit, based upon majority consensus in global American cities, with media built around football franchises building $2B stadiums to impoverish their own children, is a really, really stupid process, but that is what you are looking at.
When the critters want the elevator fixed, they will get the f* out of the way, a price will be struck, and Family Law will be disconnected. Until then, you have much better things to do than watch a five-thousand-year-old war, among consumers.
A dog knows more about economics than the derivative, supply-side, ivy-leaguers bred on consumption at the Fed. And Congress can only tax what it sees, which is why it is so busy building a fascist surveillance system, cutting its own throat, as it becomes increasingly blind accordingly. Digital money solves nothing; it just translates the baseline, solving stupid with stupid.
Regardless of breadth, depth and diversity of busy-work, feudalism is feudalism; it’s monetary and fiscal systems can only be arbitrary, capricious and malicious, because they operate in a positive feedback loop, creating a closed system. It’s just an extension of gravity.
Don’t chase empire money, passive aggressive consumers educated by the empire to exploit natural resources, disconnecting themselves from nature for short-term gain, regardless of denomination, with your increasing time, and expect a happy outcome.
the expanding planet is suddenly growing a bit smaller. and what happens when new consumers are not being born to replace the old ones? there is no profit in being a landlord when the vacancy sign is on. the landlords and corporate overlords are dinosaurs, and government is always reactionary. it may be that in a shrinking world in which progress gets thrown into reverse that government can finally get it right. if you knew that the Balkans were W1 all over again, you could do something. (too bad we elected a progressive) what if they paid you to live in one of their cradled cities? (then you know something is wrong, don't you, they hand you food stamps, and free rent and healthcare, something is wrong with that isn't it?) the notion of labor in exchange for currency is no longer valid is it? the worker is someone forced to live in the past, the nonworker someone forced to live in the future (such are the cradled cities) i think you make Thoreau's point, eloquently enough. (the farm and the mortgage soon own the man) the desperate country to the desperate city. perhaps its enough to be a little less desperate than we already are.
This is interesting.
Reuters posted this article last month.
Something doesn't quite add up with China's rising steel production, but falling coal output and imports so far this year.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/25/column-russell-china-coking-idU...
The answer may be that China's gettting met coal from the Russians...
I would think Putin is very aware of the fragile Kiev government that has a punch up every other day. He may have thought that Porky would have negotiated with the Separatists first, but was probably surprised that the new President decided to destroy the vitally important economic region. The Kiev fascist forces have made a point of shelling industries including the coal mines rendering them completely non-productive so there isn't going to be any sudden economic upsurge if the truce holds. Maybe Porky is a Keynesian?
My guess Putin got more involved when he considered the impact of having the neo-nazi Ukies right on his doorstep, but if it results in "Regime Change" bonus! Hey it works well for the USA! USA!, USA!
"According to the Department of State Administration of basic industries, water from underground is not pumped in ten coal mines in the region.
In addition, because of the fighting near the mines coal production completely stopped at state-owned enterprises “Makeevugol”, “Artemugol”, “Ordzhonikidzeugol”, “Shakhtarskantratsyt” and “Torezantratsit.”
Due to the current situation in the region, production in the coal mines of the region continues to decline. For 8 months 21.4 million tons of black gold have been produced, which is 12% less than at the same period last year. In August, production has fallen by almost 50%".
This is a good article on the reasons for the "war"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/in-the-wake-of-the-ukraine-cease-fire-the-r...
Putin wants it all, not just that little but important piece.
no 1 resource in ukraine?
Seriously hot and beautiful pussy!
gold diggers
Off Thread but the Russian Engineers MH17 report is here:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/09/malaysian-flight-mh17-crash-an...
Speaking of fossil fuels..
Did you know that by law the US guarantees israel's oil supply - no matter what?...even if it causes US a DOMESTIC SHORTAGE???
I didn't.
http://wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4504
THERE IS NO ZOG
So that's the real story behind Hanukkah.
Wow.
Donbass has always been famous for it's coal. The Czarist Russian state made development of Donbass a major priority because of the coal there for energy to drive steel and other metals production and fabrication. Donbass attracted mostly Russian speakers to the industrial revolution there two hundred years ago. Kiev is the center of Ukraine, the west is ethnically far different in religion and language than the East Donbass where Russia has always been the ethnic and language majority. Ukraine today is a victim of World War II. The Soviet Union grabbed a lot of Western Land not historically part of of Kiev's administration. The East has for centuries been Russian, as much as Rostov region nearby, the internal tension of Galician and Donbass is huge and Kiev has not been able to mediate the differences. Galicia, for those new to Ukraine, is where the majority of fascist, racist and expansionist pressures come from. Even in Kiev, 40% of the people vote like the Donbass does. Galicia was part of Hitler's war effort and loyal to Nazi Germany. They have not forgotten this. The USA and Britain have cultivated Galicia for 20 years with NGO's and billions of dollars of funding for nationalistic and anti Russian education and political groups.
People who accept the simple Ukraine versus Russia story, that the Western Media portrays, are being simpleminded. Ukraine did not fall apart until the western backed fascists staged their coup in Kiev. It was from Galicia and the radical western Ukraine nationalists that this conflict grew. Read their propaganda, they actually believe they are a master race, a superior ethnic people. I don't say that, THEY do!
As for the economy. Donbass has been world famous for heavy industry since Russia developed Donbass based on the coal for energy, going back over 2 centuries. Kiev is shelling the industry. I know for fact of the following targets being heavily hit. Chemical Plants, Coal Mines, Steel fabrication plants, small manufacturers, steel makers, air ports. Now, Kiev, without Donbass is simply a good place to farm, without Donbass there is little industry. And here is the kicker! Russia, not the west, is Ukraine's major market for all the Donbass produces, and also the wepons industry, left over from USSR days, is a huge Ukrainian industry. Again, most all their market was Russia.
Let's be clear. Without Russia as a market, 50% of all Ukie industry shuts down today! 90% of their big High tech weapons firms shut Today. They Kiev Junta can't compete with Germany, French, and British industry, or even Polands. Kiev, without Russian Donbass loses 70% of industrial production. Kiev without the Russian market, loses it's only paying customers!
It is that simple Ukraine and Russia have been one economic unit for at least 3 hundred years. A simple western Kiev coup can not change that.
Kiev's economy is fucked. The above article is only half the story of how truely fucked they are. Add a major civil war, and destruction of production, what do you get. Worthless Bonds, Default, Marketless, and prostrate economy. All the facist slogans in the world can not replace economic reality. The US Kiev Junta, Poroshenko the leader, has been known from US diplomatic cables going back to 2006, as America's insider in the Ukraine. Our very own diplomatic cables, released by Wiki Leaks, refers to Poroshenko, as America's totally owned agent, and CIA asset.
No wonder the US congress treated him like the second coming of christ. Under it all, he is a foolish little man, an Oligarch who hopes that America will make him richer by giving him power over Ukraine. But this little man can't even take Donbass.
"Galicia was part of Hitler's war effort and loyal to Nazi Germany." It was but the large population of ethnic Germans there were getting a terrible time under Stalin's goons.
The Saker just posted Poroshenko's speech that was given before the US congress.
What's all this endless cheering????...Did he just belted out some unheard before, male version of Madam Butterfly? What a bunch of mindless robots. This is so hopeless.
90% of USUK politicians are bought and paid for.
So true. This means we are fucked and on our own eventually (which is good).
I actually hope Congress accelerates the quickening of whatever that may be.
Are you suggesting that coal gas, like radon gas, is seeping up from the massive stores of coal in Donbas and compelling the residents there to speak Russian?
Interesting.
Donbass doesn't want to give coal to Kiev; as Kiev will quickly exchange coal for European tanks and guns, and will come back to kill wives and kids of Donbass' miners.
Another ruskie troll...
And in your theory (lies) of how those eastern Ukranians hate... Ukranians... (akward) whould explain that they gathering, singing Ukranian anthem, helping to protect their city against "liberators" that are using GRAD missles to "free these teritories" against Ukranian will?
http://youtu.be/PILstC9SfoY
http://youtu.be/3YFBsXZJZpw
http://youtu.be/RbIVD8lWw2E
In a city of half a million? Impressive!!! LOL. We'll see how many more will gather when Mariupol gets liberated :)
BTW, here's proof that Ukraine is invaded by Turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH5QKdah9TY
Speakig of the will of the people, here is Mariupol during referendum for independence.
http://static0.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/...
http://ukrainiancrisis.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/10363884_841763439184...
http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140511&t=2&i=895974514&...
http://static0.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/a_scale_large/...
Kiev forced to buy SA coal. Note how it is the Rebels that bombed their own mines!
Also the main electricity substation in Luhansk was sabotaged yesterday removing electricity from about 1M people plus mines, industry. The crazy thing about the later was a couple of weeks ago a Kiev military commander went on Youtube saying that his men had mined the plant incase the Rebels got the Kiev forces out of Luhansk. They did so bang. The Russians are 'pulling' in a cable from their grid.
Sorry, meant to say they were invading, pulling what must be a secret weapon.
(Reuters) - Ukraine will buy one million tonnes of coal from South Africa because the military conflict in its Donbass region has disrupted domestic coal production, Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk said on Wednesday.
Pro-Russian separatists are battling Kiev's forces in eastern Ukraine, which is home to much of the country's heavy industry and coal mines and accounts for about 18 percent of the economy's output.
"They (the rebels) bombed our main coal mines ... and so the government has already signed an agreement on the supply of one million tonnes of coal from South Africa," Yatseniuk told a televised cabinet session.
"The first vessel is loading now," he added.
Not coal. Just like Libya, Water. This happened in May:
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_07/Ukraine-to-completely-halt-fres...
It's much worse now.
It's a good thing the 'pro-russian' rebels don't have any/many muslims fighting with them. Overwise it would've gotten the americans completely involved. Natural Resources, 2nd world country, potential terrorists, etc etc.
What a gong show!!
Occupation regime in Crimea AKA Putin regime is oppresing native tatars and evicted Tatar council from their building.
It's old USSR oppresion style.
http://www.rferl.org/content/crimean-tatar-mejlis-russia-impounded/26592...
There can't be no oppostion to occupation regime.
Who reads Radio Free Liberty? Home to warmongering liars, pimps and zionists? Obama and his State Department shit their pants when the people voted to leave the communist Soviet Republic of Ukraine. Crimea was forced by a communist Ukriainian premier of the USSR under gun point to join Ukraine. This America supports. But when free people vote freely to leave their communist forced incorporation into Soviet Ukraine then America is angry.
Angry because America's new naval base in Sevastopol just got pulled away from them. Too fucking funny. Obama was already planning a villa in Crimea and his rick zionist friends too. Now the free vote of Crimeans has turned America's dream of another conquest to shit.
A Swift update
MOSCOW, September 18 /ITAR-TASS/. The European Parliament’s recommendations to cut Russia off the SWIFT inter-bank financial system are violating the company’s rules and are causing huge damage to its reputation, SWIFT said in its statement published on Thursday. According to the underlying principles of European law fixed in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, the European Union violated the company’s fundamental rights to conduct business and its ownership right by having mentioned SWIFT in its resolution.
The SWIFT Company described the EU resolution as a discriminatory document and an example of unequal regulation. SWIFT added that EU’s possible actions might cause great damage to the company’s reputation.
The European Parliament discussed at its plenary session on Thursday the Ukraine crisis and the relations between the European Union and Russia.
The resolution adopted by the European Parliament “calls for the EU to consider excluding Russia from civil nuclear cooperation and the SWIFT system.”
In late August 2014, media reports said the UK had proposed banning Russia from the SWIFT network as part of an upcoming new round of sanctions against Moscow over its stance on developments in neighboring Ukraine. However, this proposal was not supported by the EU countries.
Russian Deputy Finance Minister Alexei Moiseyev said in late August Russia’s government had already drafted a bill to create a local alternative to the SWIFT payment system.
The European Parliament’s resolution, however, will not have any special consequences because it is not a guide to action for the EU governments. At the same time, the document reflects the general atmosphere in Europe, which should be borne in mind.
SWIFT, which wants to be a global and neutral supplier of financial services, noted, however, that the European Parliament resolution had not affected its work with Russian companies.
Are there any heaters that run on methane? I've heard of people harvesting their shit via some sort of septic system.
They were able to power a gas range etc. This should work for heaters as well.
SH
seriously.why are we saying russia and ukraine.they are the same people same culture same history.
the word ukraine means borderlands,or the edge.
i saw a recent article about internet usage in ukraine. more than 80% is in russian and less than 20% in ukrainian language.(i can find it if someone wants proof)
this civil war is not about resources it is about where the people think their future is. eu or customs union
"The pain in Ukraine is plainly in the gas main."
By Jove, I think he's got it.
just take the cuban missle crisis, subsitute the names Kennedy with Putin, and khrushchev with o'bama, this is the present ukraine.
if i read a truthful article, one of ukrainians main asset flew out of the country the day of the us-nato coup, their gold.
the puppet-masters strings are being stretcht to the limit, and even some are unraveling, it's sad but where ever there is military-actions and upheavels going on now stand a good chance of not even being on the map 5 yrs. from now.
for those who say the eu money will migrate to the us as they keep faultering either don't know, or aren't truthful the us,and eu's money has been entertwined since 2008, it's just the BIS plan thats not working, for them, that means the citizens have to bear the brunt of the exspense.
Hold on.
To say the Ukrainian Civil War began because of the coal deposits in the South-east ignores the fact that it began in the Maidan in Kiev at the end of November 2013.
After the legitimately elected president was put to flight by the Kievan Nazis who have now been scrubbed clean of their horrific beliefs and are wined and dined by Washington and the glittering capitals of Enlightened Europe. Politicians who have conveniently forgotten that the Pravy Sektor's Patron Saint would have burned down Paris except for some disobedient officers in the Wehrmacht.
No, this civil war has nothing to do with coal. The object the war is the same as the object of all the economic wars of the West on Russia:
TO MAKE LIFE SO MISERABLE FOR THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE, THAT THEY INSTIGATE REGIME CHANGE. AT THE LEAST THEY WEAKEN THEIR GOVERNMENT AND ECONOMY, LESSENING RUSSIA AS A THREAT.
We see the same thing now in Venezuela.
The duel in Ukraine would be the same today if there weren't substantial deposits of coal in the South-east.
The US wanted to confront Russia as early as the end of the 90's, certainly by the time they withdrew from the ABM treaty in 2002.
At the moment it appears that the US has the advantage. It may have Ukraine and NATO force the Donbas action by a false flag attack during the ceasefire in Ukraine, while the US simultaneously plays their "false terrorist" card and bombs and invads Syria.
This is just a step in the long term strategy of the US to become the indisputable strongman of the planet. And seizing control of all the crude oil production along the way.
How low has the US stooped?
Well, it just celebrated the appearance in Congress of Pytor Poroshenko. The president of a government who is probably responsible for shooting down a passenger airplane with the loss of 298 lives.
Why else would the Right Honorable Mr Poroshenko have withheld the ATC recordings immediately after the crash?
Ukranian women suck (other than they look good until around 35 after that they look like a wrinkled pile of shit). They are total money hungry confused bitches.
The Russians want the coal. Coal will outlast oil and everybody knows it. You want the steal of the century load up on coal stocks or coal land like they are oil or gold stocks in 1988. I can guarantee you it will blast gold by a ridiculous margin and probably even oil. They are purposely being beat up. Look at the chart for gold - got pounded for years while some people loaded up then bam rigged market and now sell off. Same exact thing will happen with coal - they will keep the price down to hoard it slowly under the radar for possibly years, while all the sudden oil gets expensive and then bam. You have yourself a retarded huge gain.