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No money-back guarantee? Seems 'unfair'!
Source: @lHedgeGC
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Aren't we doing that here?
I think I gain more here than I lose. It's the scintillating dialogue with other zeroes that make it worthwhile.
Yes, but we are autodidacts.
Our colleges and universities are Progressive propaganda machines. "Diversity in everything except for thought". Students learn the one and only one approved POV on every issue, and are warned not to deviate. Those who docilely accept their sheephood are rewarded in college, but not so much in the real world.
Why would a business hire a college graduate who believes business is evil?
I'm guessing that is at Alabama (lol).
of course, a lot of the student loan $$s didn't go to the institution of higher learning
found its way into Apple, Papa Johns, Starbucks, landlords etc pockets
i like to see those corps bottom line with student loan $$s stripped out
Obama said in his speech that a kid with $60,000 in student loans did not know how he was going to pay it off....Obama said he was going to help him...so the loan forgiveness is coming..I amsure before the next election to buy the votes again....
With an all Republican Congress? Good luck with that...
Can never happen, it's the dream of those deeply in debt who are to lazy to do something about it but who are able to pay 600 bucks for a iPhone.
If you have a diploma and 60k of debt just to get it is a moron.
Only buy what you can afford.
Hey! I like a Bughati! But I can't pay for it without selling everything I've got so I won't happen.
Educators still profit.
He lied, it's called bankruptcy, you or your folks, take ur pick.
Do you really think the banksters will allow their congress to change bankruptcy laws so as to make student debt dischargeable?
I don't!
And, if you think it makes a damned bit of difference which set of morons is parroting the corporatist speil, you need to take a college course in reality.
Craig
They won't, you made my point.
But you are not following the end game far enough. The FED will have to do QE4 eventually and they will need more Treasury debt to monetize. One of the Ponzi tactics will be to forgive student debt if they go to work for the .GOV or volunteer to fight ISIS. The .GOV beast will grow, the USSA banana republic will continue to be gutted of private sector workers and there wil be more GOV debt to monetize. I am afraid this time Obola is not lying just hiding his true motive which is to bring the USSA to its knees so his banking cabal buddies can secure all the resources.
Keep going... Higher education will eventually become an entitlement with an associated levy on paychecks like SS and Medicare...
They won't, you made my point.
Nope, they will change the laws so student debt becomes America's debt...you and me. I mean after all, its for the children. Stop being such a hard hearted cheap bastard and just cough up the bucks! Somebody has to pay if others are going to live the American dream and pursue happiness and shit. What you want really doesn't matter unless you are going to threaten to vote and kick them out of office....but you won't because there are more of the dreamers and than you, so just suck it up!
Maybe Obama meant that he was going to write a personal check?
It is going to come from Us, the Working stiffs. College education will be PUBLIC education. it's coming. you and i will subsidize every lesbian womyns study degenerate. unlike public education which is all well and good and relatively balanced, this is totally up to the student to decide. don't forget piglosi's dream that everyone can study what ever they want, free from worries. it's the democratic wet dream, follow your dreams regardless of cost or future income.
Well THAT has not changed since the '70's. Lit, Drama, Art, there is an entire raft of diplomas that would not get you a job. Most of those folks were majoring in graduation and not much else. Some of them learned to think.
I went to a tough midwest high school in the 70's. Two years of Spanish, 1 full year of Latin, Trig, Calc, Chemistry, etc. Very rare, nowadays...Liberal arts was laughable, even then.
Excellent, very funny, and so right on.
Not to mention a prudent course of action!
The paper opens the door en the result you get is with your communication skills.
If you fail that one, your precious diploma is worthless.
And I'm sorry to say but half the population are autists who can only say "BUT IF HAVE THIS DIPLOMA!"
A while back I was talking to this young girl, fresh out of college and she believe that companies should fire people with a lower diploma so people with higher diploma's can get the job...
That was weird...
She never did a real job in her life... But yes... Kick out the guy who has been working there for 20 years....
Well. When I'm hiring I'm specifically looking for people who can think. Particularly, those who can take knowledge, think about it and apply it to reality.
I haven't noticed that a degree particularly correlates with that trait.
It rarely (if ever), does.
You forget, most employers are on the .gov tit in some way, so don't expect them to know anything about anything much at all, outside of benefits and pensions. So why would you expect them to seek anything more in those they hire? The Peter Principal guarantees mediocrity.
Well, it is all about ME!
Librarian
my friends who are firemen make way more money than my college freinds.
This too shall pass,
but god knows when.
Pretty much everyone who sucks at the tax tit gets paid more than they're worth; add in a minuscule amount of actual danger and a vast amount of hagiography, and a tax-feeder's salary can go through the roof. Pigs are the best example, but firefighters aren't far behind... at least when they show up they don't shoot your dog and steal any cash they find. Yet.
heros-one and all
Tertiary education is a cartel pricing racket on tuition, books, bankers fees, Trustee in Bankruptcy fees, Court fees, Investment Bank fees, Trader fees, et cetera. The worst part about it is the interest rate which is doubled before the student gets a dime to invest in education. The whole entire system is rigged for very large cohorts of failure. University and College
education is a tracking system for debt slavery and the end result of the public education system in North America that sold out the lives and futures of the students they were contracted to educate. Professionalism, it would seem, means fraud in public education because the Government is responsible for oversight. In brief, education is about the blind leading the blind into greater levels of financial darkness and ignorance for the masses at the behest of de Rothschild Bank. One tautology is one world gubberment, and that tautology is de Rothchilds Bank when all is said and done with causality.
NOTE: Think outside the tautology, box, corporation, ideology, end game, and let's hang ourselves a mess of Banksters just for fun, eh?
Tertiary education will not teach you how to appropriate the wealth
of the de Rothchilds Bank into your own personal bank account, and that is the education that everyone is attempting to attain IMHO. One must plan and educate oneself if that is a desired goal. Don't count on Harvard to teach you how to do that.
"Wow! It says here you have a Masters in Chiean Lesbian Poetry Studies?? That's outstanding!! Take cab #6"
No dude, that's a cabinet position in Hillary's term.
back when i went to school only the top 10% of the class was considered college material in public schools. the rest tried to get jobs at the mill(s), .gov, family business or a trade.
today, a high school grad has walmart and mcds(and the military, convenient for a volunteer army in a perpetual war) to look forward to. it must be depressing to work alongside some 40 year old guy still struggling to get something. everyone is told they can go to college and way too many try because some college accepted them while helping them fill out the financial aid and loan forms. it is tough to make a living in a declining empire. mcds and walmart are the new factory jobs. unless those people are paid enough to buy a car and a house the usa will turn into walmart people. they will not get paid that much so get used to a country filled with fat women wearing lululemon, walmart brand....and bending over infront of you alot.
Everything that the government subsidizes gets more expensive as valuation and price discovery are destroyed. Everything motherfucker, education is no exception.
what perplexes me about the price of private education even down to the grade school level is the price parents are willing to pay for a dubious return on the investment for themselves and the child. i have a child in one southern state getting a nursing degree in a state school paying a coupla thousand/semester and a friend who paid for a child's (cosigned loan) teaching degree at a junior ivy league school. the return on my daughter's degree is obvious at multiples more than her real costs. the teaching degree from an ivy league school is a waste of money yet the program is filled every year at 40+ grand/year.
in fact, i have an anecdote about all of my friends regarding all sorts of stupid things parents are willing to spend way too much money on for the ethereal roi of parenthood, now that i am in that parenting age.
the cheapest accredited school is the best school, usually a state school. unless you go to an ivy league school or some top of your field program, then the cheapest education is the best education.
get a trade degree. nursing, accounting, anything math related, anything writing related(internet content writers and other commercial writers. people don't fucking know how to write, like me), science related, teaching, etc.. who cares if you don't like it! get a job first! careers come later.
most of all. have a lot of fn fun!
We are coming face to face with a harsh reality. The long term implications of poor job creation are massive. We are seeing that a huge number of people have dropped out of the work force. Often these people have little in the way of savings, this means the burden of caring for them will be transferred to society. If to many people shift into this category we will slowly wear down through attrition. Finding a fair way to share and balance the work load that goes on every day is one of the most important problems facing our modern world.
Failure to discover a solution to this dilemma bodes poorly for our consumer driven economy and adds to the toxic problem of inequality. Many of the numbers and budget projections of the government have been based on far better employment numbers then we are currently facing or will be facing if this continues. The article below looks at the long-term implication of poor job creation and how it will drastically impact in a negative way both the wealth and future of America.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2013/09/implications-of-poor-job-creation.html
Still believe that growth can continue forever in a closed system with finite resources? Good luck with that.
Honestly, neo-Malthusians ought to learn a bit of history - e.g., the 1980 bet between [economist] Julian Simon and [self-promoting Malthusian fucknard] Paul Erlich.
And there's more...
It's a very big universe, and populations stabilise (and in fact tend to reproduce at less-than-replacement) as they get more purchasing power: the opportunity cost of a Western adult female's time is generally high enough that childbirth is a less-preferred alternative compared to a woman of reproductive age in the Third World [yes, I still use that term]. So as stuff becomes more abundant, populations tend to stop growing.
It is not necessary for growth to 'continue forever' on this little ball of rock; it is not necessary for growth to 'continue forever' in aggregate terms (it is mathematically trivial to get higher per capita income with an endogenously-declining population); it is not necessary (and in fact is utterly fuckwitted) to think that the entire future economy consists of crude transformation of 'natural' resources into finished goods.
For someone who wants to pretend that they have an inkling about the 'laws of physics', you have an extremely parochial view of where the resource limit is demarcated.
Once we are all little AIs in nanoscopic solar vehicles, and are autophagous, the resource cost of humanity will shrink to near-zero (universally).
You might find the idea that humans will evolve into nanoscopic AI silly, or doubt its technical possibility. But it is on our evolutionary path (unless trained physicists don't understand the 'laws of physics'), because (1) Drexlerian nanotech does not violate known physical laws; and (2) Kurzweilian "Strong AI" doesn't, either.So they are both in our future, as sure as nuclear fission was in the future of folks in 1910.
We are extremely good goal-seeking machines, and our primary goals are an increase in pleasure/happiness/comfort and a decrease in pain/unhappiness/discomfort. So we know that the way to get happier at minimum cost, is to use resources in the most efficient way possible (at lowest unit cost, cet par, while seeking new methods that will further reduce costs).
And since we developed scientific methods for problem solving, our technology curve has been staggering - once we realised that approaching problems with experiment-plus-error-correction was WAY better than praying, we unlocked a mechanism that will transform us (so long as politicians don't weaponise it first... which is why politicians and governments are the biggest existential risk to humanity).
Bear in mind we're only 100 years in to the period in which scientific principles had the absolute ascendant, and less than 10 years in to the process of wresting control over 'core' science from .gov and putting it back into the hands of tinkerers.
Besides - as resources become scarce, there is an entirely-natural mechanism that ensures that they are consumed efficiently. It's called the market price system. Many governments (going all the way back to the very first) have thought they would overturn this system - and obtain resources by theft (conquest), or could 'ration' a problem away.
It doesn't work - ever: conquest costs more than trade (see: Oil, pre- and post-Iraq), and rationing results in hostility towards the political class.
now why would we do that?
And when the poor can't afford to eat anymore the revolutions and wars roll out across the world.
Re, the Kurzweillian idiocy.... It is a perspective is both shallow and narcissistic. Just like any other nut predicting infinite exponential growth, real physical limits will prevent "the singularity". I don't know exactly which limitation will be The Big Problem but I have an inkling it will be related to the movement of heat. The exponential increase will level off into a logistic function instead.
The narcissism comes from assuming that you are worthwhile or in any way meaningful. In 100 years everything you have ever done will be gone and forgotten. In 1000 this entire civilisation will at best, be nothing but bones and bits of metal in a museum. In 10000 there won't even be any record of what we called ourselves.
Entropy wins. Every. Single. Time.
"The burden of caring for them will be transferred to society" iff there is a price floor in the labour market and people start their working lives with unrealistic expectations as to the scarcity (and productivity) of their skills. If those two conditions don't hold, then the labour market clears at a lower median wage, and goods prices fall... unless you hew to the mindset of the Wandering Pederast (Keynes), whose work is the economics equivalent of epicycles.
Also, by 'society' you mean the tax base - those members of the society who produce goods and services that are traded in voluntary markets. All bureaucrats (and beneficiaries of .gov-endowed monoply or monopsony power) are tax recipients.
And when say 'burden' you mean the cost of supporting the unemployed individual himself, plus the cost of employing the vast army of overpaid bureaucrats that administer the system... because if you look at transfer payments to the unemployed as a proportion of the tax take, it's a pretty small part of outlays.
'Do the math', as Yanks are fond of saying: if ~1 in 8 individuals are unemployed (yes, I'm saying that the actual unemployment rate is ~12%) and if every unemployed individual receives ~$293 per week in transfer payments, the remaining 88% of the workforce would need to kick in $293/7 - just under $42 - to completely replace the unemployment 'insurance' scheme with a direct transfer system... without paying a cent to the vast pyramid of tax-eating vermin who are a much larger cost to 'society'.
Now do the sums with the enormous bureaucracy added: there 2.6 million jobsworths in the federal .gov bureaucracy pyramid - and their average take-home (which represents their net receipt of taxes taken from productive individuals) is a fuckload higher than $293... and they get huge unfunded retirement, health and other benefits.(Of course only some of those tax-eaters administer Unemployment Insurance and other welfare payments).
The total number of recipients under the Unemployment Insurance program: 5.6 million.
Now compare that to the 64 million receipients of Social Security (of whom, 43 million are non-disabled retirees).
The maximum 'entitlement' for a retiree: $2,414 a month; in addition there are another ~50,000 bureaucrats who take home more than $50k each (and 10,000 who take home more than $90k).
Now not every retiree get the 'full whack', otherwise payments to retirees would consume a trillion dollars a year. However SocSec payments to retirees are about 8x the total dollar value of payments to the unemployed... and with retirees you know two things: they didn't pay enough in during their working lives (SocSec is a Ponzi), and they're not going to pay it back... ever.
inb4 the "retirees paid taxes all their lives" canard - retirees lived during periods of .gov debt accumulation all their lives, and hence were paying in less than they were (supposedly) receiving from .gov all their lives. If you believe in the system, then you believe that whatever you pay in taxes is going to furnish government 'services' that would be underprovided by a private market. (Note: I vehemently reject that idea - it's nonsense from root to branch).
Higher education in Greek and Roman times made economic sense. Since few people were literate, books were hand-written and in very short supply, it was cheaper to have one guy standing in front of a hundred, reading out loud or retelling from memory what he had read. In the information age every lecture doesn't have to be re-told repeatedly in front of different groups of students or even written down. Any thought can instantly be captured in all of its complexity, duplicated, broadcasted instantaneously to every person on the planet. It makes no economic sense to have universities at all, short of those that through education either provide hands-on experience with equipment no individual would be able to afford (nuclear reactors etc), or deal with life-altering sciences such as medicine. But then, even in practical sciences, the majority of time is spent not practicing, but learning the academic portion - watching, listening and reading. Anything that deals with information should be augmented from the institutional portion of learning. You learn whatever you have to learn and only come in to practice - to push buttons on super expensive whatchamacallit machine. You don't pay tuition, but rent supervised access to something that's either crazy expensive, or in the process of use could blow someone's head off.
When I got laid off, I learned electrical engineering on my own in a few months. No tech college, no diploma - money going to parts and gear I use to this day. Spent my time producing a portfolio and that is the only thing I get to show when applying for work. Diploma is expected only when a person has nothing else to show. A portfolio and a list of successful production runs is all it takes to get hired. I manufacture motion control systems, program comptuer vision algorithms. Made everything from thermostats, to electric car components. Contract work here and there to complement my main profession that is in film and television. Education relating to engineering specifically - zero. High school level programming (that I stuck with for the rest of my life). Had a basic understanding of electronics early in life. All that was needed was time to get my hands dirty and some money for parts, which ended up being way less than I would've spent on education alone.
I worked at a math deparment at local university while still in high school. That was enough to get me disillusioned in post-secondary schools all together. Saw early on what they were about - self-worship centres for grossly overpaid individuals, completley detached from reality.
Though my university time wasn't a total waste. Ended up looking great on the resume, didn't cost a penny and hadn't consumed the best years of my life.
Great story. Reminds me of an old girlfriend who majored in biology, used the degree to get a decent but going-nowhere job, and taught herself computer programming three hours a day everyday after work. Got herself a terrific job six months later.
I think for girls it's easier to get into science type jobs, or into any male-domniated industry for that matter. I hear that quite often managers hire women for psychological motivation of male staff. I personally see nothing wrong with that. Projects move faster with a modest dose of internal competitiveness. A 50/50% gender mix is ideal for me, unfortunately most places I've been at are lucky to have a female receptionist. Film sets have a standard proportion of men and women. Engineering jobs on the other hand... oh boy! Not only are there hardly any women around, sometimes it feels like the men employed never even seen one.
I'm married, have a daughter. Trying to convince her to develop an interst and hopefully bypass post-secondary education all together, but my spouse is old-fashioned and still thinks a college is worth something. We often battle about it. A parent who tells a kid to ditch school? Imagine that!
Your husband isn't wrong, a college degree is worth something, depending on what you do in college-- both on and off campus. It just isn't worth what 90% of people pay for it.
Completely agree. Guess I'm chasing my own bottom line. Like I said - there's place for some higher education - just not all of it, and when it comes to costs - even the good stuff typically costs too much.
Education should be treated like an investment - input/output, PE ratios... and time should always be a factor. How many years you spend before finding out whether your pulled a lucky lottery ticket.
JuliaS - I am with you on this. I told both of my sons that college was a waste of time and not worth getting into debt for. They will both find their way.
My daughter however, got into Julliard for dance. There are only 12 girls in the Freshman class. All of her classes are hands on with top correographers and she has tremendous industry opportunities thrown her way constantly. For all of my ranting about what a waste a college degree is today, I can't say anything negative about Julliard. I was even able to negotiate a decent tuition price that is a fraction of the total tuition.
All depends on an occupation, and personal factors play a role. I don't want to be throwing blanket statements when it comes to schools. I do have college education. I did borrow money to attend and paid it off. Found something that was worth the money for me. All started with the company I dreamed of woking at. I researched their employees and found out that 2 were teaching part-time. I went to school not so much to learn, but to get a lead. Through my 2 years I learned more about the company and eventually got disillusioned in it, but not in the industry overall. Managed to secure another job and was happy with it.
Also, during my time, government was offering grants that covered nearly 50% of tuition for low income families. For me it was a good deal - a calculated risk. Since everything rested on me knowing exactly where I wanted to be, the process of getting there was almost a formality.
Looking back, what I would recommend from my experience is looking for schools where instructors are industry professionals and only teach part-time, unlike universities where the faculty is typically stuck in academia land permanently.
Many schools are valuable and connections you make sometimes are as important as the actual skills received. I helped former classmates get work. Friends also helped me when my own luck was running low. School is a social expeience. One simply has to understand how much it costs and what it has to provide back in order to be worth the effort... and school is always a risk. Some kids get it. Some kids don't.
In high school when a teacher got sick, everyone cheered. In college if a class got cancelled, we all got together and stormed the admin office, demanding a partial refund.
Post secondary education (PSE) has become nothing more than professional trade schooling. A degree means nothing more than 'you have successfully learned how to learn, with focus in [major] and a bit of [minor]'. That is unless of course you have gotten a degree that has a job title stamped on it (eg. accounting, medicine, engineering). The unfortunate truth is the Schools of Business that now have come to dominate PSE tend to cater to the children whose parents have told them to go to school and get a job, but have limited intelligence and no work ethic (Failing? Don't study more, party less - Daddy can donate). Partner that with the increase in fake PSEs offering truly worthless degrees that have questionable, if any, academic requirements and from a hiring perspective what do you get? A list of applicants, all with 'degrees', but no work ethic and a sense of entitlement. PSE have become corrupted by the business model (profit at the cost of quality).
I'm really starting to get fed up hearing about how much debt these people have because they 'needed' a degree. I worked 2 jobs while in school full time, 3 during the summer break. Graduated 3 months after the recession hit and found myself a job outside of my field of study (math, physics if anyone cares) because I had bills to pay. Was making the same money I would have if I never went to university. Now I've realigned my career with my degree and I don't consider myself as having lost out, my bosses like the fact that I can handle hard work, have the self discipline to work, and don't put up with the bullshit complaints coming from the rest of my generation.
I still get calls from the alumni association asking me to support struggling students. I would give, but there is no way I'm told to limit my money to those students who are willing to go out and work a shit job to try and support themselves (my own shitty jobs included - deli counter, line cook, bouncer, commercial landscaping, day labour, snow removal).
Working since 14 years old, I am 52.
Always worked and studied, did two faculties, even working two jobs.
My children who do Civil Engineering graduates leave the University without student loan.
My sons work and make the University one sells cars and other works at the Port of Santos as Manager of Cargo.
I never should "student loan".
In four years of work in a room will change after the big city and buy a house in the town of 70,000 inhabitants.
Keep working at another job.
Do not use a credit card, use checkbook and coin in the mouth of the box.
I have no debts.
When I need something with money and buy the spot with a great discount.
Call me a troglodyte, but never understood the bills of credit cards.
When you do not understand something, I do not buy.
:-)
Eugenics is where those with the brightest and healthiest genetics have the most children. Dysgenics a is the opposite. Since WWII we have been going heavily Dysgenic until our genetic population has a lower wattage than should go to college in their present numbers.
trade schools would be much more productive.
Yes if we had any trades left that were viable.
If you're born ignorant, you die ignorant. Some people don't belong in college, some don't even belong in school at all.
hahaha ha
<catch 'Spencer's Mountain' on the oldy channel some time.>
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education." ~ Bertrand RussellToo bad they can't get a factory job.
Because we don't make anything anymore.
I'm going for a major in cannabis with dual minors in sativa and indica online. I'm sure I can get a student loan.
And of course, these debt laden, credit unworthy graduate serfs DO need new cars to go from interview to interview ... so THIS is such a great idea and nothing will ever go wrong with this. It has worked wonderfully in the past.
/s
Sir, you need to see the guy in the Goldman office down the hall. He can probably securitize your diploma. That's what we did with your loan.
................................
I finished grad school with $120,000 total debt in 1987 (equivalent of $180,00 today) but made an effort and managed to pay it off in 10 years.
I knew what I was getting into but it was extra hard because the rules kept changing. Example, the interest was tax deductable when I took out the loans but then that suddenly changed and the rug got pulled out. If a student doesn't end up with a high earning skill that is in demand then the loans are not payable.
The holder of the debt will hound you from job to job garnishing your check, after taxes.
Then they'll attack any tax refund.
Then they'll go after your pension and social security.
You cannot claim bankruptcy until everything is already gone.
Avoid debt.
My loans are through DoED, and I believe up to $3,000 per year in interest is deductible.
My school has a senior-level, for-credit, course on Microbrewing; for Biology majors, only. BREW_400. Not kidding. This is what college has become.
I took a screenshot of it, while perusing for graduate courses. I'll see if I can find it.
http://rt.com/usa/201979-harvard-anal-sex-week/
Prolly Hasty Pudding
Brewing is central to much of the work done in microbiology and molecular biology especially if you are making transgenic brews...
sopqrus, -- Nope. No trannies for me. I just brew a Russian Imperial Stout using a standard all grain formula, and then add sugar to the spent barley to make spirits. All done with common kitchen kettles and a glass fermenter.
Don't need a degree to stay out of the liquor store. Prosit!
.
These undergraduates are defenseless against the sales tactics.
Maybe the graduates would have a chance at suing the school’s “advisors” for malpractice.
I got a degree in Drywallogy. I make as much as my neighbor the doctor, buy I don't have any college debt. For those of you who don't know what a Drywallogist does, I specialize in the Sheetrock sciences.
You made smart choice & did well. I got out of medicine and into computers, made a fortune and retired VERY young.
Message: college education is not bad or waste of time & money compared to vocational training, just depends on what career you choose, how much time & money you put in and how quickly you can get a lot of money out. It is a *BUSINESS* decision, which is why so many young people make bad choices.
Drywalling gets really rough as you age; be sure to pick up some finish carpentry skills too. Also, if you've got any interest in estimating & bidding jobs let the boss know.
You don't want to be bucking drywall at 50. Your spine & neck just can't take it.
I am the boss.
SCHOOLS ARE BUSINESSES.
Buyer beware.
Join the Marines.
Fight and die for Israel.
Fight and die for Big Oil.
Fight and die for someone else's dreams.
Um pretty sure the mums and dads in Iraaaaaq are dreaming of edumacation for their kids right now MOTHERFUCKERS.
The school means everything.
Bush Vs Kerry along with other Skull & Bones members illustrate this fact.
Who you know means everything.
Community College for two years before a jump to a four year makes a lot of sense financially.
If the schools wanted to help students, they could easily condense many majors into a 3 year program.
With some exceptions, of course.
The 4th year of school should be an internship anyway.
Since the first year of Community College is, basically, the last year of High School. I propose this as a solution:
High School should be year round but only two years.
When you turn 17 you get 2 years, no tuition, state paid courses at the Community College, year round, 2 weeks off in the summer and 2 weeks off for holiday around new year.
Redesign apprenticeships for trades for those that can't cut it in College or 2 years of Civil Service or some combination.
For those that excel in Community College, greater than 3.0 average, 3 years at University which should include at least 1 year COOP on the job learning and to see if you really like the profession or even work all the way through; 3 days in class and 3 days at work for 3 years in the industry. The University classes must be more advanced and if you can't hack calculus, Diff. Eq. or statistics then you shouldn't be in University. Grab a shovel and start digging for the new high speed rail system that our dear leader should have touted 6 years ago.
I meet 2 engineers from Caterpillar who worked for the company all the way through school, they were 40ish and were from the UK over in Georgia opening a huge manufacturing center. They were already trained when they received their degrees and were complaining about the lack of education because ignorant people are hard to train. They were bitching because their billion dollar plant was only turning out 2 units a day on one line because they had to train everyone from scratch.
It is asinine to believe the lie that the USA has to grant work VISAs after University for foreigners while there is rampant unemployment and plenty of people willing and able to earn while they learn. If the Gov't would take the burden off of business to pay Social Security, health benefits and the rest of the interference that keep businesses from hiring people, AMERICANS could work in AMERICAN Industries.
Everyone knows the last 2 years of High School is complete BS. Summer holidays are a burden on families that now have to slave to make ends meet and can't afford a fucking summer vacation anyway. Let the kids go year round, raise teaching standards along with Teachers PAY. I saw a bit on youtube and the Superintendent of a city school system was ILLITERATE! I kid you not. If you see the clowns running for political positions in the education systems in the USA it is no wonder how easy it is to keep the peasants under control.
The USA waste so much money because they refuse to make basic investments in education and the system we have here is fundamentally flawed. I have worked for city gov't for more than 5 years and I know they waste half the money they borrow every year on idiotic projects while HS graduates can't even read or write enough to put together a resume.
I've been to China 4 times since 2007, spent months there. They don't sit around bitching and complaining and if they want to work they can find work. Chinese are driven, ruthless and also pragmatic. They only send the cream of the crop to Peking University and there are other fine Universities. They can hardly speak English yet they come here for grad school and go to the very top. They go to top US University Grad Schools AND THE UNIVERSITY PAYS THEIR TUITION!!!!! I had to take on debt to go to University. Then they take engineering jobs while our engineering graduates drown in debt getting Green Cards based on a false assumptions that there are not enough qualified engineers in this country. TOTAL BULL SHIT.
I say it should be a constitutional amendment expressly prohibiting dual citizenship in this country.
This country should, either, enforce the Constitution, or, cede soveriegnty back to the British. I've been to London and the Queen runs a tight ship.
How about government just gets out of the education (indoctrination) business entirely.
That sounds good to me as long as they eliminate the real estate tax along with it so I can use that money for tuition.
My wife is from a communist couintry. There they posted EVERYONES grades for all to see and they really competed to be number 1. Only the top student at her highschool was given the opportunity to go to Peking University.There is no buying your way into Peking. she had 5 roomates and all five graduated at the top of their cohort.
If they did that in the states kids might be motivated to perform.
I think states should raise standards to save kids from becoming debt slaves. Up the requirement from 2.0 to 3.0 to stay in and advance. The state shouldn't waste resources on average students. If you get have less than a 3.0 average you got to go. It would save mediocre, non-performers a lot of money and you would be doing them, and society, a service. That would mean less, but higher quality, graduates and less competition for professional positions which the 2.0 student won't get anyway and will still owe 50k in non dischargeable debt.
We live in a caste system and the state should not waste money on those that prove they are of a lower caste through poor academic performance. It would make a University Degree much more valuable and save taxpayers a bundle.
I have an , ABET accredited, B.S. engineering degree, but a master welder makes 2 or 3 times my rate and doesn't have to compete with a gazillion other candidates for a job. I wish I would gone that route instead.
PHD underwater basket weaving
"you'll need a receipt" showing you didn't get that at U of Phoenix online. Otherwise you can only exhange it for one of equal or lesser value. However, you can sign up for more debt and get a masters. Whadda you think?
I have some concepts about the profession, there is the useful and the useless.
useful:
-professores,
-agrônomos,
-geólogos,
-engenheiros and
-médicos.
useless:
-padres (or pastors, religious)
-advogados,
-psicólogos (and psychiatrists)
-políticos and
-militares.
hehe.
As a college professor, I have to laugh. Too many students go to college for the piece of paper. If they tried, instead, for an education two things would follow: the piece of paper, and a job.
More degrees isn't the answer. More educated people? Better answer.
I have students who refuse to study for an exam prior to the night before the exam. They seem to think if they just get the magic diploma, limp along to a C average or better, employers will be lining up in droves to hire that kind of mediocrity. This just in: nobody wants mediocre employees.
My best students don't have trouble landing good jobs. Anybody wonder why that is? :)
"Anybody wonder why that is?"
Let me guess:
1/4 of your students, divided your class material, each programmed the material into their TI-84, then they daisey chained to download each ones material into tyhe calculator to use on your exam?
That's what about 4 Juniors did in my Inorganic Chem. class and got away with it. I only found out because a professor let it slip that they did, yet they got the 4.0 in the class and I got to wonder; for a year, how I could study every night and still only pull a "C". All things being equal I should have had the "A" and the job they got via cheating. I felt like punching the professor in the face when I took him for another class and he said "you can't use your calculators any more for my exams" and handed out calculators.
When I pressed him to explain he let it slip that there were allegations of cheating, yet I was not informed. It was all hush, hush.
They couldn't inform us, who paid mountains of tuition, and risk their ABET accredidation.
If I had known the system I would have gone to the Board of Visitors and demanded, either, a complete investigation and the resignation of the professor, or, I get an "A" for that class, my tuition back.
What is your disipline?
Sorry_about_Dresden:
Forgive them, they know not what a Prussian or Eslava Education.
Are still in the club.
hehe.
I'm a sociologist but I teach in the sustainable energy area as well as Criminal Justice. Yeah, don't ask. I shoot at targets of opportunity (and FWIW, I'm a tenured full professor, which means it's by choice, not by fiat).
And I've long taught my classes like my own children are in there--meaning, I'm a tough SOB. If you earn an A in my class, you've EARNED it. I usually distribute more F's than A's, but that's not my doing--that's my students' doing. I believe students pay a lot, and I believe they should get their money's worth. No canceled classes. No classes of 50 minutes of videos for which students are paying $30 and $40 for that 50 minutes of watching YouTube crap they could have watched outside of class.
If I catch you cheating, there is only one penalty--you flunk the course and a letter is put in your file. That F cannot ever be removed from the transcript, either (and I had a big hand in changing our policies on that).
I wish I'd had you in my classes--students willing to work, to learn, to think, I can take to places they can't imagine. I teach critical thinking and I'm good at it, I'd like to think. THOSE are the students who get jobs, because they provide value added to the people who hire them.
goose3:
Life has always been hard on me, my mother was a teacher, I have the ears wagging barbecue so she pull me ears to study.
I thank her for that.
Lack discipline, the Chinese know that the Russians also.
They do not have that bitching in Education as Brazil and the US.
:-)
I earned my degree despite the others who choose the dishonorable route to skew the curve and cheating the classmates who were there to learn the craft. I studied chemical engineering and obtained my B.S. in 2002.
The thing that bothered me was the pitch...."there are so many in the field retiring, starting salary $85,000/year". Well the boomers are working until they are 80 now. They retire from their first career sitting on a pile of cash and decide to go back to work and take the jobs our professors touted would be ours. Now the starting salary is less than $50,000 and you have to be a brown nose ass kisser to get promoted. It is never based on your deeds. If your boss went to a different school then he hires alumni even though they are not as qualified.
We have to wait for the boomers to drop dead at their desk
; and yes it has happened more than few times. Then they don't even promote from within and hire outsiders who have no idea of what we have being
charged to accomplish.
My wife is a tenured associate professor at top university ranked 20 in the nation. She is 38 and will make full professor by 40. She has published 40 peer reviewed article in the most prestigious journal in her field. So I hear about begging students all the time and would be appalled if she gave into such abuse.
If they don't show for class and miss assignments they are doomed. The incoming freashmen threshold here was 3.5 gpa.
goose3:
I have taught in a municipality, State, Federal and State University, I always wondered this, but I'm close to the answer.
The thing begins in the family, only those where the man works and can leave the wife at home taking care of the children.
Students have Doctors, Engineers, one State Representative and a range of unfortunates who did not get along in life.
Even those with working parents but had a strong family like grandparents for example assisting in the creation descent, did well.
Those who were raised in nurseries without family support is fucked.
I do not think there are many exceptions in my memory.
There is a saying that translated Slavic looks like this:
- Who knows where it comes from, you know very well where it goes ...
Would accordingly: who has family and a name to uphold, will ensure.
When teaching at Federal University, a gay couple students came knocking on the door of my house to complain about a low score, called the police!
This generation does not know how to study, is another generation.
They do not know what is pick up a pen and copy text to spell the words in mind, do not you reverse calculations or create different diamonds or formulas distinct from those of their teachers taught chemistry.
I love watching those YouTube Russian boys experiencing the laws of physics without their parents kkkkkkkkkkkkk be processed!
Sorry so great explanation but I feel that the problems in education are similar in the US and Brazil.
Bration there.
Alexandre.
:-)
Endeavor to persevere..... https://www.google.com/search?q=chief+dan+george&biw=1280&bih=621&tbm=is...
EemieMeanieMinieMoe:
You are sensitive.
Read this (Google translate):
http://ultimosegundo.ig.com.br/brasil/2012-08-10/populacao-indigena-no-p...
:-)
"Indians in Brazil totaled 896.9 thousand people, 305 ethnic groups speaking 274 languages indigenous, according to 2010 Census data released on Friday (10) by the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics (IBGE). It is the first time the bureau collects information on the ethnicity of the people. The survey also marks the resumption of research on indigenous languages, "
So what is your point? How does the Brazilian Indian census relate to US Gov't sponsered student indentured servatude to Wall Street securitization?
Sorry_about_Dresden:
Dude, I answered something that I found sensitive to the other person read right, said this:
"EemieMeanieMinieMoe:
You are sensitive. "
She put a link on a Canadian Indian, a guy who considered sensible.
I do not understand how you were looking at the horse on chicken egg.
For my part alright, if you must know, here in Brazil we do not kill Indians as Americans exterminated, we are very felizez at fixing shit that Portuguese and Spaniards did in its colonization.
If this simple and eloquent explanation serve you well.
If you do not serve your problem.
We here in Brazil like our Indians, we are left with our Indians.
No hard feelings with you.
:-/
Sorry_about_Dresden:
Point you like.
Okay.
Entire flora and fauna of the Amazon is Brazilian, is ours, if some remedy its pharmaceutical products are found genetically ours is likely to break the patent.
Its crystals are ours!
Another question her: "US gov't sponsered student servatude hired to Wall Street securitization".
I understood nothing of what you said.
For my part, I am aware that I am a citizen of the BRICS.
I want Europe with all the castles and the Euro more brutal and you Americans be damned insane with their euros and dollars.
Let the rest of the world in peace!
Honestly, I tell you, every box of what I write is an issue, you should not mix things.
Will you be a troll Harvard?
hehe.
"Entire flora and fauna of the Amazon is Brazilian"
Oh really?
http://rainforests.mongabay.com/amazon/amazon_map.html
I count 8 other countries besides Brazil.
"We here in Brazil like our Indians, we are left with our Indians."
Man, you are so full of shit.
http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/9191
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/08/brazil-land-indigenous-peop...
Imagine being so stupid as to make a statement like that and not expect to be called on it?
I guess that's what passes for education in Brazil these days.
ebear:
I believe you do not know the word "empathy" - put yourself in the other - and, if known, not applicable.
You put links on the shit we did to the Indians, yes, I admit, I have regrets.
Precisely why I'm glad they are increasing in number.
Any citizen of the country that has a patch of the Amazon say that Amazon is theirs, that piece of the Amazon within its territory.
You know there are patches of Cerrado vegetation in the Amazon?
It's different when I hear a US citizen saying that "Canada is our" or "Mexico is ours."
You do not mention non-governmental organizations who come here and try to convert the Indians urging create vast reserves of mineral deposits.
Inciting against indigenous governments in place in many countries where Amazon spreads.
Large labs send undercover scientists to learn which plants heal certain diseases.
You do not speak a word about the theft of our biodiversity that began when the British carrregaram an entire ship with seedlings and planted rubber trees in Asia to produce latex.
You need to know more about the South Americans and understand that much of the population is aware of these sacanagens.
hehe.
I did that with my 30 day AA chip. You have to go back until it does work or you retire dude.
q99x2: ? Or you explain what you think or stick your finger in the ass! What I write below is not a threat, somehow, I do not know if your comment was made to me. Anyway, let registered what I think about "Trolls". You gave the "leaves" and I'll release my outburst. Understand that it's not just because I'm a Brazilian, my anger is because in the 1980s the network was used only in universities, only chatted and exchanged interesting ideas. Come to my rant about trolls: An old guy like me does not want to lose the last wish of seeing a guy like you hanging in a sunroom Fast Food. I do not know if you know but who dies on the gallows die hard dick, who dies at the guillotine is writhing horrors (body, mind, nobody knows, the guy has no air to the larynx function), who dies in the electric chair stinks BBQ chicken as the Japanese bittersweet. Die with lethal injections have you seen the shit that's happening lately. You can die in a firing squad, but I do not think need a squad, anyone in ZeroHedge have the pleasure of giving out a Troll. A guy like me commenting on Blogs from the time you were not even sperm (and had dial up!). Mr. "Troll", I see guys like you trying to break an interesting discussion burn in hellfire. I have said here that a troll has no discernment. A Trool can not write above four paragraphs. A Troll do not know how to express their experiences because they do not have. A Trool is a troll, nothing more than a jobless future deceased when the Royal Society, one that produces and consumes food goods begin to sharpen shears and build supports for good strings. In my concept, politicians should be hung in beautiful Secoias burned. Trolls, hung with linen rope (nylon strings kill very fast). hehe.
I will not give - or + to you, other than judge.
Trolls may be able to write four paragraphs, but you can't even write one, blogBOY. Furthermore, I have been online since 1995, and in 1995 blogs did not exist yet. I am still on dialup and I don't need high speed Internet to know that you are a mindless worm with a personality disorder and quite possibly schizophrenia. Re-read what you wrote and ask yourself if you can make any sense out of it? If you can make sense of it then you need to see an MD. If you can't make sense of it whatsoever you will have verification that you need to see an MD.
I think this is one of the few posts in ZH where there appear many trolls.
They do not have to argue about education, let alone journalism.
Educate a class with 30 or 40 students is an art.
Do children read, write and think it is an art!
Teachers are at bottom tools of political change.
Teachers are underpaid in countries where there is a financial interest (commodities).
Advanced governments pursue their teachers as well as to journalists, curtail and try to denigrate the profession.
hehe.
Jingle mail.
A MBA in basket weaving can land you a job at the Bank of International Settlements.
I like a post about education because I can express my experience as a university student in 1985 and then formed and Professor continued.
Always participated in forums, discussions from the time that the network was in coaxial cables.
The Network arrived in Brazil through telephone cables, copper cables, and goodwill of the Brazilian military, the thing was new.
In the beginning there was integration between military and universities later, when the military felt that the thing was serious, the university created the internet and the military Echelon.
I watched the thing to be created and the majority of Brazilian Universities had no money to mount a decent server.
Some sectors of the Armed Forces in Brazil managed to put together a decent system as in Justice, Bank of Brazil and its own, this is what is working.
Today the network is so interconnected that only older systems created in the 1980s work right.
Russians have developed other languages bits and baites that you can not imagine, recall a program that fit into a diskette 3/5 "called Kolibry, any opened hardware!
I estimate that only 5% or 6% of the flow in the network today as this is what I'm writing here, the rest are banks, military systems, drugs and lots of porn.
Trolls do not believe that people who are old in the network is not known, if known, and very well!
Old guys like me read more boxes review the actual text of the Tour after all, what is the Post, they themselves could have written!
Without Michel Chossudovsky, Paul Craig Roberts one, Saker, Castor Filho, Snyder among others, the network would already be extinct!
This molecada standing with his nose in the "chap-chap" is absurdly dumber!
Unfortunately only a few remaining dinosaurs to alert us.
The world today is different, I believe that government systems soon outstrip our vain academic innocence of what could have been the network.
Unfortunately ...
: - /
i say that the debate about global warming will be gone in ten years. scientists draw research money from government, and the scientists who brought up the global warming issue were already in place (already funded) when they discovered the problem. now its a matter of finding new scientists who are interested in other things, although not necessarily dispute global warming, the purpose of controlling them is to silence (defund) any research, and they control the network. there are by example any number of competent PHDs in economics, but only Paul Krugman gets media attention, why is that? the internet is now in their control. we can only guess what it means to have open dialogue.
If I could do it all over again I would be a global warming "scientist." Reading a thermometer and dumping it in a spreadsheet. That's at least 5 years of college to learn that. The hardest part of the job is fudging the numbers.
In the back of my mind I wonder if the original global warming scare was actually one of these idiots making a mistake in recording temperatures and they didn't want to admit that they couldn't do this job properly. I can see it now. No, the numbers are correct. We will have no snow by 2015.
the grateful un... :
Nós, humanos, temos um senso de sobrevivivência insano.
O planeta pode ser superaquecido num lugar, mudamos, o eixo da Terra muda e nós mudamos até para a Antártica se tiver clima e condições.
Não esquente a cabeça com isso, a merda não acontecerá amanhã nem matará seus filhos (talvez os netos) mais aí, eles são humanos, eles darão um jeito de sobreviver.
Nunca se esqueça que uma alma pesa 30 gramas.
É a quantidade de energia que existe em cada corpo, em eletricidade.
:-)
Jesus, even in Portuguese you make no sense.
He's a teacher .
A goofball in every language.
KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
Or is it kkkkkkkkk
I don't laugh in Portuguese.
A stand-up comedy club in Brazil must sound weird as hell when the audience gets going.
Well, I'll sleep.
Here's raining, I need three hours of sleep.
:-)
Engineering degree computer science political science Marketing Branding
SHUT UP GO BUY STUFF
It's 123 what are we fighting for
don't ask me I don't give a dam
next stop is Vietnam (whatever boogie man)
We're all plumber's shoveling bankstershit.
Did I Save tenure or buy shit or administer shit or security shit ?
BIG DATA IS WATCHING
First rule fight club
In my state all of the public school systems focus on per pupil spending number. At a kid's sports game this guy next to me starts talking about how the per pupil spending in our town is too low at $10k per kid. So standing on the sideline, I start running numbers. 25 kids in a class is $250k. Pay teacher $100k in salary and benefits. Then I start going into the number of classrooms per school building and breaking down principal, janitor, nurse, gym teacher, art teacher costs.
Guy says, "You can't look at it that way. This is about education."
I just gave him a look and I am sure he thinks I am crazy but I have a policy where I simply state my position and don't argue with idiots.