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What Have We Learned From 24 Years Of War?
Submitted by Charles Hugh-Smith of OfTwoMinds blog,
What have we learned from 24 years of war? Since the First Gulf War in early 1991, the U.S. has had continuous combat operations in one theater or another. After the first war, combat air patrols enforced the No-Fly Zones over Iraq for years, until 9/11 triggered the first phase of the Afghanistan War and President Bush led the nation into the Second Iraqi War in March 2003.
Though this war officially ended with U.S. troop withdrawals in December 2011, the war continues to burn through lives and treasure in Iraq and it continues on in the memories, wounds and lives of veterans and their families.
What have we learned from 24 years of continual warfare? There may be two sets of answers: one set for policy-makers, those we have elected to make the consequential decisions of war and withdrawal, and another set for the citizenry who provide the volunteers who actually fight the wars and the treasure to pay for the wars and their long aftermath.
For policy-makers, Foreign Affairs just published three informed essays on the complex legacy of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Each is thoughtful and worth reading:
More Small Wars: Counterinsurgency Is Here to Stay? Foreign Affairs by Max Boot
Pick Your Battles: Ending America's Era of Permanent War? Foreign Affairs by Richard K. Betts
Withdrawal Symptoms: The Bungling of the Iraq Exit?? Foreign Affairs by Rick Brennan
I also recommend a previous Foreign Affairs article from 2005, just two years into the Second Iraqi War by former Defense Secretary Melvin Laird:
As for the citizenry, I would start with a few points I consider self-evident. I should note that ours is a military family, with service dating back to my grandfather's stint on the 4-stack U.S. Navy destroyer U.S.S. Lea which patrolled the western Pacific (with ports o' call in China) in 1920.
1. As a nation, we chose a professional volunteer military over a military of draftees in the 1970s. This has changed the nature of military service and reduced its role in civilian life. This has allowed our civilian leadership to send our military to war without directly affecting many civilian households. It renders war a distant abstraction for all who do not have active-duty family members.2. As a nation, we have chosen to maintain a state of high readiness and overwhelming force as deterrents. This requires a large, permanent force and an equally permanent expense--though it should be noted that as a percentage of GDP, U.S. military spending continues to decline.3. History suggests maintaining a hollow force with no real combat capabilities is a sure way to make bad decisions and suffer horrendous losses. Hollowing out the nation's military doesn't mean war is any less likely; it just means the losses suffered by those serving will be much higher should war come.4. There is no substitute for combat operations in terms of experience and lessons learned. That said, the lessons are wasted unless they are absorbed by the entire bureaucracy of war-fighting and the civilian leadership that makes the decisions of war and withdrawal.
What have our military and civilian leaders learned from 24 years of war? Hopefully the lessons are as complex and nuanced as the wars.
We should treasure and retain the mid-rank officers and combat veterans we have in uniform. Any nation that has not engaged in combat in decades would be foolish indeed to take on a military with decades of combat operational experience. That is deterrence we would not choose but now that we have it, it should not be squandered.
5. War is not abstract; it it fought by individuals. We should be careful about tossing around abstractions such as 420,000 active-duty soldiers or our overseas commitments that end up falsifying the reality that sending forces into harm's way is sending individuals into harm's way. Reducing messy reality to a clean abstraction is a sure way to lose one's way.6. Simplistic ideologies such as neo-conservativism (neo-con) lead to ill-informed civilian leadership decisions.7. Wars are easier to start than to end.8. We increasingly demand the impossible of our military: every decision is examined with the infinite luxury of hindsight by critics with no combat or military experience, every action is expected to unfold as flawlessly as a Hollywood war sequence, and the military is supposed to perform non-combat duties such as nation-building, despite a paucity of resources and training.9. Our civilian leadership's ignorance of other cultures, their histories and the limits of war have led to catastrophically high levels of hubris and over-confidence.10. War is not diplomacy, nor is it nation-building. Confusing the three wastes our military forces on futile no-win quagmires.11. It's easier to disrupt an enemy's networks of communications and logistics than to defend one's own long supply chains.12. Wars without clear tactical and strategic goals that are achievable with military force cannot be "won" and should never be started.13. The world is not a suburb of Washington, D.C. and its inhabitants do not respond like policy-makers' suburban neighbors.
* * *
And finally:
The responsibility for starting and ending wars, the way wars are fought and the losses we suffer all rest with our elected civilian leadership.
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14)...let those who 'propose the wars' be the first ones sent into battle....problem solved
by the way, where are 'Wolfowitz and Pearle' these days?....anyone?
WAR IS A RACKET
Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC
War is just a racket. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
War is young men dying, while old men talk. War is just another government program. Government is old people stealing life from young people.
Your post makes much more sense than the whole article above! That article while correct in many things, never mentions Israel or the Neoconservative movement inside the USA, which is an official branch of Israel and Global Banking. He does not admit the true reasons for US military actions, nor their utter failures since the horrible Vietnam fiasco. The greatest nation on earth sat in Afghanistan for nearly 13 years, spent a trillion dollars, and spent 30 billion on the Afghan military. YET, Taliban control most of the country, the Afghan military is useless, corrupt and a threat to every American soldier engaged with it. AGAIN, no one held responsible, the utter failure goes un-noticed by America. Failure is rewarded. Now Iraq is even wrose than Afghanistan's utter failure. Nobody held to account, the failure of that entire war goes un-noticed. Now the people who failed there, bring you the Ukraine war, again it looks like Washington has backed a dead horse of corrupt fascists and jewish oligarchs. And if you don't like me saying "jewish oligarchs" then I ask you to prove me wrong in my statement. Many of them are Israeli citizens, and live in Israeli, returning to Ukraine to loot and take political powers via the western led coup. Kiev's Junta is rife with jewish oligarchs.
Aha - busted, Jack!
Proof that Ukraine is not run by Jewish Oligarchs.
See? It's just like the USA, and the USA is not run by Jewish Oligarchs. Therefore...
I learned a new word today, too. philo-semite
6) "Simplistic ideologies such as neo-conservatism (neo-cons) lead to ill informed civilian leadership decisions."
That's putting it mildly.
I believe he's refering to "the crazies", so aptly named.
Agreed.
This may sound counter-intuitive but we should have compulsory service for Men and Women. Basic training and two years of service. If every single family had to put their kids into two years of service - we would be a lot fewer foreign entanglements.
As it is now you have volunteers; either the gung-ho patriots or the kids whose families are too poor for any other path. A majority of families don't have their kids at risk, so it's easy to wave the flag and say "go get 'em!" because their loved one's are not at risk.
No. What you advocate is indentured servitude at best, or just outright slavery, and that makes it wrong right there. It won't stop them from sending young people off to fight in senseless wars either. It didn't stop then in WWI, WWII, Korea , or Vietnam. There was a draft then, and more people died than our current 'all volunteer' escapades in the Middle East. The notion that a draft means everyone from all walks of life has an equal chance of being cannon fodder is laughably naive. How many of these chicken hawks you see on TV were of military age during Vietnam? And how many, aside from mcstain, actually went over there?
War destroys empires.
Duplicate
As a Vet I can say that War is nothing more than a business. Five generations of my family have served.
Now none of my kids will join the Military.
We are awake and pissed off.
sighned
American Taxpayer
All wars are banker's wars. All else is noise.
"by the way, where are 'Wolfowitz and Pearle' these days?....anyone?"
Plotting the next events.
Right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8hZpXyykM
A large portion of the US sheep think that the lesson was that another Bush or Clinton is needed in the White House to "keep the momentum going"?
"Fool me once...." How does "that old Texas saying" go again?
As one Texan puts it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A
Nah Washington D.C. politicians passed all that off to the UN long ago. The new recruits aren't even Americans. Pretty much mercenary forces now. The US really doesn't have a military since it has become a nation-state.
I take it Charles assumes voting is legitimate.
Here's a thought: Why are we voting in secrecy? Why don't we move to a system where each vote is counted and displayed online, showing how each person voted for all to see and for each to verify?
The entire secret ballot thing is ripe for collusion and fraud. We all go in the booth, keep it hush, and are told what the results are. Big Brother is laughing his ass off at how gullible we all are.
Ballots are secret to protect the voter from harassment and retaliation for voting "wrong". Same principal as the only free speech is anonymous speech. I think there are ways to achieve your result without revealing how each voter voted.
Ballots are secret to protect the voter from harassment and retaliation for voting "wrong"
As if none of that happens with a secret ballot. Instead we have pre-intimidation, and mahcines that flip votes. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
Then again...voting is merely the initiation of force. Nothing good will come if it anyway.
Because the Demoncraps would issue death warrants against their opposition.....or at the very least, declare their opposiition to be mentally incompetent and ineligible to vote.......Or break the legs of the opposition so they can't make it to the polls. Remember a rabid Liberal/Progressive thug named Joseph Stalin?
Why must the US incur all the debt in policing the world? Do you know of any other country that goes around waving their big stick like the US? We are 18 trillion in debt. When does the US wise up? At 30 trillion? 100 trillion?
How much vig does the US make policing the world to make sure it only uses the
petrodollar ?
Seems you are very new here.
Better to remain silent ,and let everyone think you a fool...........
Fiat currencies and also to some extent PM Coinage require large standing armies.
They are part and parcel of each other.
Wars are costly
British 'Pound Sterling'
Coins were .925 Sterling...until after WW1...1919 reduced to .500 Silver
Enter WWII....post WWII...1946 reduced to .000 Silver..(copper-ncikel)
USA....1971 R Nixon 'temporarily' halts the Exchange of 'paper for Gold'
Vietnam ring a bell?
You cling to a partial truth and draw vast, unfounded, erroneous, conclusions from a small thread of information. Educate yourself. Expand your fount of knowledge, widen your intellectual horizons, before making such encompassing assumptions as to the motivations of all your fellow citizens.
because the US chooses to police bully the world to obtain what it wants.
Deaths in Other Nations since WW2 Due to U.S. Interventions: 20 to 30 Million
http://www.countercurrents.org/lucas240407.htm
You're welcome.
taketheredpill;
Who provided you with that information? Why do you believe it?
Why don't you provide us with the stats that would indicate how many deaths there would have been without U.S. intervention?
Also, how many Americans have laid down their lives to save and better the lives of peoples in other countries?
Also, how many millions of human beings around the world now live better lives because of U.S. intervention?
Who secured the freedom for you to promulgate unverified statistics on the Internet, without being arrested and thrown in prison for the rest of your life?
You are an imbecilic child. Go back to the basement and finish your homework......and take your meds.
How does troll compensation work btw? Do you get paid per word or per post or per threadjack? Do you get paid less when everyone can tell you are trolling?
Anywho. You do realize that eternity is a long time to be on the wrong side don't you?
How's that Cool Aid? Grape, is it?
Without the constant war and threat of war, the U.S. economy would have tanked in the late 80s early 90s.
Broken Window Fallacy on a large scale is basically Gaza, Lebanon, Iraq, and now Syria is joining the club.
Frankly we'd all be better off if we disengaged from our neocon/interventionist foreign policy, seriously invested in alternative energy, and to the extent we must reduce versus merely excise the MIC - why not bomb and rebuild Detroit and the south side of Chicago? We don't even have to kill anyone.
and we can fund it all by taxing the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.
+10 for that last line.
"God created war so that Americans would learn geography. "
Mark Twain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpWmlRNfLck
Stupid article.....24 years of war...try 5,000 years of war.....and it will go on and on as long as there are people alive....its human nature....if you want to defend whats yours...you fight...or you dont...and become a slave or dead...
War, what is it good for? Absolutely Noth'in!!!!!! Say it again........
Unless they be steelin yo shit or makkin yo hood.
Tha be meetin Busta Cap.
The Obama Administration's CIA has learned to pay off the families of victims of its war crimes with large bags of undocument cash. The following reportedly happened after a Yemeni official met with aides from Obama's office.
'Inside the bag was $100,000 in U.S. cash, "freshly minted" $100 bills wrapped in rubber bands, Jaber said. "The money was almost brand-new. The serial numbers were sequential."
Jaber at first balked, uneasy about taking so much money with no documentation. But his relative, the executor of the deceased family members' estate, returned the next day to retrieve it and this time was told "it came from the U.S. government," said the executor, who asked that he not be identified by name, in a telephone interview.'
-- http://news.yahoo.com/an-errant-drone-strike-in-yemen--a-secret-white-ho...
That war-created debt does not matter anymore. The cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan was $6 trillion (as compared to Vietnam's cost of $738 billion in 2011 dollars which forced the US off the gold standard on August 15, 1971).
The Nobel Prize Winner has already bombed seven Muslim countries and spending on war never ceases due to unlimited printing of fiat.
Fiat = Eternal war and killing
The responsibility for starting wars rests with human nature. See, e.g., Cain.
Please, our elected leaders are actors, middlemen. They are just well paid (after they leave office, or trading on inside information) well connected whores, who do what they are told by the masters. If you think the Billionaires and Trillionaires are letting this or any other administration call the shots you are sadly mistaken.
what have we learned after 24 years of war?
the same things learned after the previous 2000 years of war...
how to be better at it.
kill more people, destroy more infrastructure.
we have come a long from swords, shields, spears, bows and arrows have we not?
we learned to use the atom as a weapon almost 60 years ago, long before the dawn of the age of technology.
war is the oldest occupation, the entire history of humanity is written in the blood spilt during wars.
so it ever was, so it shall ever be.
only when there are none left to fight, will war itself become exitinct.
"Lest we forget" Every time I'm shamed into glorifying war participants, it crosses my mind that this meme should be remodeled to ensure that we also NEVER forget the misguided, criminal, murdering administrations that initiated and perpetuated these blatantly self-serving excercises in terror and obedience. REFUSE WAR! Refuse to allow your family members to participate. Let's take our chances with humanity. Good will naturally overcome evil. We know it's true.
Like it or not, Serbia was the first truly unilateral act of aggression. Thank you Clinton.
Now it's Iraq 3.0.
For those in the know, the Pentagon should really be a Hexagon.
An American, not US subject.
$500,000,000 to train 5,000 rebels. Are there 5,000 skools that could use $100,000 each here in Merika? Some people like Richard Duncan argue that the gov't is gonna spend, so let it be a big VC. The hopium scenarios are running thin - the ultimate face plant is going to be epic - kharma is a bitch.
That includes pencils, paper and a bag lunch.
I've told this before, but must again.
The pastor of the church I was attending in the past tried to draw me into one of those conversations that they then like to try to turn around on you. Anyways, he mentions porn. Being the sarcastic and mischievous bloke that I am, I asked him to define porn for me. He goes on and on about lewd and lascivious images, exploitation of women, etc. So I asked him about what he thought of murder and killing. He goes off on the usual. When he's done, I then asked him that wouldn't the howitzer down in front of the VFW be more pornographic than nude images, as it is, was, used for killing. He just looked at me blinking, as I'd just smacked the hell out of his OODA loop. End of conversation. And no more casual convos. after that either.
Funny how they know all the answers, but know nothing of the world.
An American, not US subject.
"What truly amazes me, is that I acquire more knowledge in a year than most acquire in a life-time, and I still don't know shit."
Well played, sir.
What do we learn from War?
So far lately, the lesson is as long as you don't say "Read my lips..." you'll get a second term.
And that's what we learned.
And now for something completely different .
Some humans like fighting .
But no need to drag in everybody else .
New owners , new rules .
Some new owners are coming in .
See
https://www.academia.edu/9247204/Be_Your_Own_Owner
or
http://andreswhy.blogspot.com/2014/11/be-your-own-owner.html
In 2018, Obama is visiting northern Saudi Arabia in his role as UN Secretary-General and is captured by ISIS. Under torture, Obama is asked: "What are your 3 greatest achievements?" He responds, "1. Iran acquiring nuclear weapons. 2. Gutting of the US military. 3. The nascent ascendance of Islam as the world's official religion." ISIS releases Obama.
Is this what we'll learn from not warring?
Or non-elected and fraudulently put in place (as Harry Reid appears to be) as the case may be.
This would include the Banks, Trilateral Commission, Bilderbergoids, CFR, Think Tanks that employ the dangerous and sequester them, Club of Rome ... and of course the military ... etc.
Oh, yeah and those who give direction to the above groups of slaves-priests and slave-slavers.
I suppose we learn so little from war because its history is written by the victors. Of course, that is problematic because the oldest book on the Art of War starts by saying that "success in war is based on deceit" and ends by saying "spies are the most important soldiers."
In that light consider Clauswitz's dialectical approach that commences with the proposition that "war is politics by other means," which then spirals around to become "politics is war by other means." That is the context in which to think about the assertion that:
We should regard warfare as the perceived expression of some of the more obvious aspects of natural selections pressures developing within human societies as forms of artificial selection. Human beings, and so too, groups of human beings, are entropic pumps of energy. However, due to the long history of the points I made above, POLITICS OPERATES FRACTALLY ACCORDING TO THE PRINCIPLES AND METHODS OF ORGANIZED CRIME. The biggest and best organized gangs of criminals become the biggest bullies, whose bullshit social stories dominate their civilization, to become their sorts of state religions, which were derived from the paradoxical development of social success based on deceit and treachery, because the death controls were best done by those who were the best at being dishonest and backing that up with violence, which especially included the ways that the various kinds of spies operated.
Those processes applied just as much within societies as between societies, since the ruling classes control those they rule over through deceits and spies. That is what primarily characterizes the history of American politics, and that has been getting exponentially worse, faster, throughout American history. Indeed, the same mechanisms and dynamics apply similarly throughout all NATO countries, as well as are roughly similar in other countries.
The most important events in the history of the American democratic republic were those whereby its original public money system, backed by gold and silver, whose value was set by Congress, was transformed bit by bit, into a privatized system of the public "money" supply being made out of nothing as debts. The international banksters that took back control of the American monetary system similarly did so almost everywhere. THEIR BASIC SYSTEMS ARE DEBT SLAVERY, BACKED BY WARS BASED ON DECEITS.
The "elected civilian leadership" that governs America, and similarly so in all other so-called "democracies," resulted from the persistent application of the methods of organized crime, in the form of bribery, intimidation, and assassination of those who could not otherwise be bribed or intimidated. Thus, the "elected civilian leadership" became puppets, performing in puppet shows put on by the mass media, for the masses of muppets, enough of whom could be fooled enough of the time. Those perceptions are almost totally taboo topics, which tend to be deliberately ignored, because paying attention reveals how and why governments are the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, due to the background constants in the form of chronic political problems, which are inherent in the nature of life. IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO EXAGGERATE THE DEGREE TO WHICH THE PARADOXES DUE TO "SUCCESS IN WAR DEPENDS UPON DECEITS" DOMINATE EVERYTHING THROUGHOUT OUR WHOLE CULTURE.
Many of the comments above already mentioned the main point that: "War is a racket." Or that, in the current context, "wars are for the banksters, who are the biggest gangsters, that effectively control governments, etc. ..." A high percentage of the people who post comments on Zero Hedge are already aware of those social facts, compared to the general population. However, most of those, in my opinion, still do not look deeper than that!
The biggest bullies' bullshit social stories have dominated the philosophy of science, the same as all other social enterprises. That makes better understanding of these issues practically impossible, since the language that almost everyone uses, and the basic concepts that they presume to perceive situations, is the result of thousands of years of "success based on deceits."
There are actually combined murder/money systems, where the death controls back up the debt controls. As information became more important than physical power, the history of the War Kings morphed to become the Fraud Kings, which are the banksters. It should be obvious that privately controlled banks making the public "money" supply out of nothing as debts is government enforced fraud. However, the majority of people do not know that, because they have been conditioned to not want to know that.
All of the wars waged by the USA and NATO during the previous 24 years were directed by the people who dominate their financial systems of enforced frauds to attempt to consolidate their global hegemony. However, amongst the relatively small number of people that figure that out, there are a preponderance of reactionary revolutionaries, who promote impossible ideals as being the source of the "solutions."
It grossly underestimates the nature of war to not perceive the degree to which that MUST be an aspect of natural selection pressures, which are chronic political problems inherent in the nature of life itself. In that context, I regard militarism as the supreme ideology. However, driven by profound paradigm shifts in basic sciences such as physics and biology, we have developed technologies which are trillions of times more powerful than ever before in known human history, and those are headed towards becoming quadrillions, IF civilization is able to survive having done that.
What we ought to do are go through profound paradigm shifts in the basic philosophy of science, which apply to political science, so that we can operate better death controls, as better organized crime, as better government. While a much larger number of people than ever before are beginning to understand the ways that the banksters were dominating the political processes, in order to wage wars based on deceits, in order to back up their debt slavery systems, almost none of those few people go beyond that to then propose genuinely better resolutions of those problems, which are not then still based on old-fashioned religions and ideologies.
Meanwhile, tragically, we are on the trajectory of the established debt slavery systems generating numbers that become debt insanities, and those threaten to provoke death insanities, as the result of the paradoxical final failure from too much social success based on backing up lies with violence. In that context, I indulge myself in attempting to understand how and why that is happening. However, I have been forced to conclude there is no way to prevent that from happening, since our political processes are so totally dominated by the long history of "success based on deceit" that it would take a prodigious series of political miracles to fix that problem, especially since the controlled opposition groups tend to spout just as much of the same bullshit about the death controls as the established systems do!
I REPEAT:
THE ESSENTIAL PROBLEMS ARE THAT THERE MUST BE SOME DEATH CONTROLS, WHILE THE SYSTEMS THAT EVOLVED TO EXIST NOW DID SO ON THE BASIS OF SUCCESS THROUGH DECEITS.
Hence, our current civilization has become so thoroughly deceitful that it is manifesting runaway criminal insanities. Our established political economy is entirely based on the foundation of enforced frauds, wherein the force never stops those frauds from being false, but nevertheless, those frauds continue to control economic developments. Wars based on deceits are started around the world, as well as at home, in order to advance the agenda of the debt slavery systems, despite that debt slavery already producing numbers which have become debt insanities, which are mathematically impossible to resolve within those established systems.
The only theoretically possible better resolutions of those problems require real, radical, revolutionary changes in the ways we perceive those problems. However, by and large, those who suggest that we should go through "paradigm shifts" tend to not actually do so, but rather only collapse back to the same old-fashioned bullshit found in their personally preferred religions or ideologies. In my view, the places to start to inspire the necessary better political revolutions are in the basic philosophy of science. That is where one can find good inspirations regarding scientific revolutions, and that then provides good guidance for the kinds of political science revolutions which we ought to do.
The previous couple dozen years of war have seen the development of the dilemmas of electronic monkey money, being backed up by apes with atomic bombs, to much more astronomical SIZES, which processes are headed to even much more of that in the foreseeable future, unless civilization thereby destroys itself first, through the ways that process is magnifying its psychotic criminal insanities, due to the paradoxical problems built on top of "successes based on deceits." The real situation is that there MUST be some murder systems, and there ARE. Those are backing up the money systems, because money is measurement backed by murder. However, those systems developed to be operating through the maximum possible deceits and frauds, which includes that the publicly significant opposition groups are just as tangled up, if not intellectually even more so, in the fundamental fraudulent, and deeply deceitful, frames of reference within which our culture perceives and discusses all of those problems.
All WARS ARE FAKE ..... MADE BY THE FAKE GOV'T
all people have to do to stop dieing for nothing is simply value your own life... don't waste it so corporations can get rich.. only you can decide !
oh almost forgot ... Fuck you Obama
Hallelujah brother.