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Russia's Patience Is Wearing Thin
Submitted by Chris Martenson Via Peak Prosperity,
Having lived in the former USSR before immigrating to the US, Dmitry Orlov has an invaluable perspective on both the US and Russian perspectives, as well as Ukraine.
With the western propaganda flying thick and heavy, it's more important than ever to cut through the chaff and learn what we can about the most important geopolitical realignment (and renewed tensions) in recent memory.
Well, look, Russia is a place that's extremely dynamic as changing response to challenging environment, to changed environment, very popular throughout the world, at peace with most of the world, even with nations that are at war with each other, both sides will still talk to Russia and have friendly relations. Russia has a splendid relationship with both Israel and Iran for instance.
The United States is a nation that can't get anything together, can't get anything on, not education, not healthcare, nothing. It's basically sinking into a cesspool of its own making it can't respond at all. And now, it is basically being shown up to be quite incompetent in playing this international game. Now, what happens if you can't play a game by the rules is you're penalized and you forfeit the game. So, either the US leadership will learn how to play by the rules or they forfeit. I see those are as the only two real outcomes.
There's a difference to how the Russians approach the world and how the Americans approach the world. So, for instance, Americans like to threaten. If you don't do this, then we will do X, Y and Z. That's a typical American behavior.
That's not something that the Russians would ever do because they don't threaten, they just act because if you threaten, then you take away the element of surprise which is very important. The other thing is Americans refuse to talk to their enemies, they won't negotiate with terrorists, they won't do X, Y and Z and can't be reasoned with at all. You can just listen to them and do what they say or they'll bomb you whereas the Russians always talk to their enemies. Russia keeps the channels of communication open.
And the other thing is that all of this endless trash talking is very detrimental to the business of democracy and there's been a constant stream of basically garbage emanating from the west, some of it social media, some of it through the old fashioned press. But, just basically all kinds of lies and disinformation and slander, which makes the tedious business of diplomacy establishing various links at various levels very difficult, if not impossible. So there's just this incredible level of disgust with their, as they say, partners in the west in Moscow and the result is they're not really eager to talk anymore. They're not very interested in communicating. They're far more interested in acting. So, what we'll probably see is a constant stream of surprises coming from Russia that will be completely unannounced and not predicted by anyone.
Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Dmitry Orlov (51m:10s):
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Tonight we dine on gold and S&P futures!
Well that is good news as because of all this deflation, I can no longer afford to substitute hamburger for steak.
Try the Horse!
I can't as he is my transport now.
You own a 'road apple' machine. You'll be fine.
I've seen this behavior in bars before. Never start a fight with someone who dosent want to fight. It usually ends poorly for the agitator.
Orlov.
Stating the obvious.
Good for him.
The attraction of Putin's Russia isn't political, it's the middle-finger attitude. Fuck you oligarchs! Nobody likes being told what to do, how to think, how to live, what to believe. Fuck your system.
HUH ... Putin is an oligarch ! and a nasty one at that
People are idiots to believe any one of these shit war mongers are good or bad....... their all BAD
wake up
Learn the difference between 'their', 'they're' and 'there'.
DavidC
I keep hearing this parroted over and over again. Why is Putin so bad? How many wars has he started in the last 15 years? How many countries has he destroyed? How many tons of gold has he stolen from sovereign nations? How many tens of millions of destroyed lives can be attributed to him? What exactly has he done that is so bad? I'd realy like to know.
It's simply that he's evil. And korrupt. And KGP.
Just sayin.
.
Is nearly perfect proof for most 'americans' to justify hatred of Putin.
Ah, is now perfect proof for most 'americans' to justify hatred of Putin.
My sarcasm may have been a little too disguised.
I believe Vlad double-crossed the double-crossers.
http://www.storyleak.com/putin-defies-the-west-leads-brics-alliance-away...
Putin has been demonized as a mass-murderer for downing of MH17 while the truth gets covered up:
Netherlands covers up secret pact controlling investigation of MH17 crash
By Alex Lantier22 November 2014
On Wednesday, the Dutch government invoked the state secrets privilege to stonewall queries by leading Dutch news magazine Elsevier on a secret pact controlling the investigation into the July 17 shooting down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 over war-torn east Ukraine.
What is known about the secret pact exposes the investigation into the destruction of MH17 and the killing of the 298 people aboard as a sham. In four months, despite receiving extensive data about the crash from pro-Russian separatist forces at the crash site, investigators have been unable to establish who and what precisely destroyed MH17. The investigation is not a probe to impartially establish how MH17 was destroyed, but a cover-up controlled by the far-right regime in Kiev and its backers in Washington, Berlin and other NATO states.
On August 29, the Dutch press revealed that a secret pact had been signed on August 7 by the countries in the official MH17 Joint Investigation Team (JIT): the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, and the Ukrainian regime installed by February’s CIA-backed putsch in Kiev. According to Dutch state radio NOS, “Part of the agreement is that signatories retain control of the information they contribute. So they can veto disclosure of their own data.”
An investigation subject to such restrictions is neither impartial nor credible. Russian military sources, citing radar data, and the Malaysian press have independently charged that forces loyal to the Kiev regime in fact shot down MH17 to then blame it on Russia and justify a NATO escalation against Russia. Nonetheless, the current investigation gives key suspects in the crime—that is, Kiev and its CIA backers—veto power over what the supposedly independent and authoritative investigation can reveal.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/11/22/mh17-n22.html
But while the physical circumstances surrounding MH17’s destruction remain unknown, the political purposes to which this tragedy is being put to use have become all too clear.
Since the beginning of the week, the three most influential mass circulation newsmagazines of the United States, Britain, and Germany—Time, The Economist, and Der Spiegel—have published cover stories that combine wild accusations against Vladimir Putin with demands for a showdown with Russia.
The most striking and obvious characteristic of these cover stories is that they are virtually identical. The CIA has scripted them all. The stories employ the same insults and the same fabrications. They denounce Putin’s “web of lies.” The Russian president is portrayed as a “depraved” mass murderer.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/30/pers-j30.html
From the first link in the post above by "first observing"
"On August 29, the Dutch press revealed that a secret pact had been signed on August 7 by the countries in the official MH17 Joint Investigation Team (JIT): the Netherlands, Australia, Belgium, and the Ukrainian regime installed by February’s CIA-backed putsch in Kiev. According to Dutch state radio NOS, “Part of the agreement is that signatories retain control of the information they contribute. So they can veto disclosure of their own data.”
An investigation subject to such restrictions is neither impartial nor credible. Russian military sources, citing radar data, and the Malaysian press have independently charged that forces loyal to the Kiev regime in fact shot down MH17 to then blame it on Russia and justify a NATO escalation against Russia. "
Belgium, gee why does that country's name ring a bell???? Oh yeah, didn't they just jump the line at the FED and receive 122 tonnes of gold? That couldn't have anything to do with keeping their mouth's shut about what is going on with MH17 could it? Probably just another one of those coincidences.
I wonder if this is why the Netherlands got their gold back from the FED? What was it 122 tons. The U.S. must really want this censored.
Here is an interesting read posted in one of the the threads a few days ago: http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/grandmaster-putins-golden-trap
William,
That is fascinating (and something of an understatement on my side stating it like that). Russia plays chess while the USA plays tiddlywinks.
DavidC
Ditto William, a fascinating article. It's time to hang on tight (!)
Great link, I too had stumbled upon it!!
Thanks mate. Had a long good think about it after I read the article and there's really no denying it: Check mate. The only response is an american tantrum to scatter the pieces with military force and that's what we've been seeing.
Not clear from article, or maybe I missed something. Does the gold become an asset of the Russian government or of the RCB. That's a huge difference. I can envision a move by Putin to create an 'alternative' to the RCB as using the Duma to reform it may be too difficult or take too long.
As far as I can tell the RCB is a drag on the Russian economy and Putin's efforts to renew industries without resort to foreign investment.
A gripe in general: I get confused with things like we, they, Russia, US - collective nouns being used when actions are being conducted or attributed to a specific subset. It's not useful
The real question is, why wouldnt you do that?! Bwahahhahaaa...brilliant move. Maybe thats why the Swiss didnt want their phyzbaq.
So, a question. Who is dumb enough to sell gold to Putin for dollars? Interesting times.
If this analysis is correct, there is another option. Once the west runs out of gold to pay for energy, our currency will devalue rapidly. This will create huge opportunities for Russia and China to buy significant American holdings...real assets, not jsut gold. They will become our "bank", defining who gets what money and when. Our government might well want to agitate us into supporting some military adventure but if the Russians and Chinese can purchase our factories, farms and real estate, they effectively become our employers and landlords. the risk to our government is that our new oppressor may actually create better alternatives than they have, giving them no leverage to instigate public supported violence in retribution. Our leaders fail to appreciate how damaged they have become in our eyes. they take a really big chance if they force us to choose. we could become a Sino/Russia state without a shot fired, especially given the tipping point has been reached regarding the FSA. The west would gladly surrender the remnants of liberty for cheap fuel and flat screen TVs.
I believe this is the likely desired outcome regardless, as we know that most of the progressive policies have been about deliberate destruction of society and economic collapse. Its just that many have assumed it is to facilitate a simple political coup, but it could just as easily if not more likely be an international effort to facilitate the absolute unification of the major powers of the world under one socialist/communist government...one world government, one world bank, one world currency and one world law, their law, the law that says whatever they want....for the betterment of man....is THE LAW. No constitution needed. As Barney Frank once told a questioner about the constitutionality of his policies he stated that constitutionality was not a consideration, not a factor, because it was government action for the "good" of people.
The thing we must recognize about ideology is its foundation on the belief in a power structure to benefit man, therefore, it can do no wrong, and personal, individual liberties must ALWAYS be secondary to the good of the collective, and the collective ultimately IS the leadership, meaning it is THEIR benefit that must come first...the ends justifying the means.
William, this is a concept you hear talked about a lot—Russia demanding payment for energy in gold. But nowhere have I read that it is happening yet. And I saw no documentation from this article that it is happening yet.
Nice concept. But where's the beef?
One of the best articles I've seen that ties together the topics of gold, oil, the ruble, the dollar, the Bretton Woods system, and the Russian central bank is this recent piece at the Saker's site:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/11/mikhail-khazin-q-with-saker-co...
I believe it will answer a lot of your questions.
Putin certainly realizes that it doesn't take much to tip the one-wheeled apple cart the western nations have become...
So why is Putin waiting ?
Because you only get (1) chance at a successful kneecap. And I wouldn't think for one moment that this 'knee-capping' event/s doesn't have a 'Xi' signature on it as well.
"Patience, my friend..."
I dispute this statement. Any time an opponent puts his legs anywhere near you gives you an opportunity to kneecap him. You just have to know how.
He's letting them hang themselves. There's no need for him to do it.
No time like the Presi...er, present.
Wars are not fought in the mind. They're fought by fighting. His economy has been obliterated. Time to get moving poopie pants.
Seriously?
You say this after China has devastated western productive capacity and co-opted the "leadership"?
War is deception.
'cause he has the wits.
Life is good for Putin, what's the rush?
One reason is that Russia is undergoing a major military modernization. See this for example:
.
Putin: By 2020, the share of modern equipment in the military should be 70%
http://z5h64q92x9.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/www.segodnia.ru/news/152356
When your enemy is making a mistake (after mistake after mistake), let him.
Look, the U.S. is struggling with incompetent leadership at the moment. It has happened in the past and will again. That doesn't mean we are eternally doomed.
Americans are generally good, honest and hard working. We should be remindful of our past and eager to mend what we have broken.
We aren't just "going away" like a novel. Won't happen.
If anyone thinks we are all that weak then jump right? It would be a huge mistake.
All those hillbillies, blacks and Latinos in our military are pretty sturdy dudes with a decent foundation of duty, honor and country.
We can make fun of it. Discount it. Denigrate it. Whatever. Still ends the same: We are a force to be reckoned with. You doubt? That's fine.
Then jump. Try it out. Find out how it works. Sure, we have asshole leaders. Sure, we have embarrassed ourselves.
In the final analysis, we aren't that bad.
I assume you missed the "black friday" stories.
And you really think that is representative? It's Bullshit. I own a few small businesses and I encounter not a single moron.
What state is the town of Shangri-La in? Montana?
I agree, we are good people. But we are sore loosers. We lost Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, Afganistan and others. We excell at loosing and we are stupid and retarded enough to continue listening to the incompetents that send us out to loose unwinnable wars. BTW, when we landed in Normandy the Russian had already lost 27 million defeating Wall Street-funded Hitler and they were able to severely decrease their war machine capabilities, so we can't take credit for that one either. Hey do you know what a false flag operation is? Google Operation Northwoods and read pages 8,9 & 10.
Here's the link to make it real easy:
"Jusitification for US Military Intervention in Cuba"
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf
You think Wall Street funded Hitler?
Okay, Okhrana troll, ever hear of the Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939? You want to talk about people financing Hitler, don't forget who made the invasion of Poland and thus WWII possible-- Soviet Russia and nobody else. Russia provided enormous amounts of oil, minerals, wheat, and other commodities to fuel the Wehrmacht's war against the West. It even provided icebreakers to permit the German surface raider Komet to make the Northeast Passage out into the Pacific so it could ravage allied shipping.
The last train stuffed full of tribute to Hitler passed the Nazi-Soviet border just a few minutes before the start of Operation Barbarossa.
Russia was delighted to let Hitler sell half of Eastern Europe into Soviet slavery and is currently ruled by a man who sighs for the return of the Curzon Line every night in his prayers.
Strange reading of history. Before the war started, Hitler and the German big industry was effectively financed by Wall Street. At that moment, Hitler had a certain credibility in most of the world for his solution for the great depression. The other signs on the wall were mostly negated. The Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement was based on Stalin 's fear that : 1. The French and Brittish would not engage Hitler. ( "Peace in our time"). And the knowledge that the USSR was not ready to handle Hitler. Hitler on his side did not want a war on two fronts. So the two arch ennemies made a deal they both knew was going to end unnegociated. In the same time they kept trading with each other, also knowing that was only temporarely. Officially the war started with the invasion of Poland, but remember : before the Munich agreement also Czechoslovakia was guaranteed by the French and Brittish. Who did nothing and that frightened Stalin.
Let's be perfectly clear here since you wish to obscure the issue by pretending that Stalin stole Eastern Europe as a justifiable exercise in self-preservation.
At the time of the Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939, the Russians were playing Let's Make A Deal with BOTH Germany and the Allies simultaneously.
Hitler's offer of half of Eastern Europe was preferred over the Anglo-French effort. If Stalin was truly interested in self-preservation rather than territorial aggrandizement, he would have united his efforts with the West and foiled Hitler at the last possible moment before war became inevitable.
He therefore bears much of the blame for the ultimate tragedy since it was his willingness to step aside for a price payable in other peoples land and libeties that turned Hitler loose. Russia stole land from Poland, Rumania, and Finland AND completely enslaved the Baltic States in their entirety. In return, Russia handed over the raw materials necesary for Hitler's war economy to function and directly assisted the German war effort against the Allies.
Without Russian connivance in tyranny, Hitler would not have been able to go to war against Poland and could not have had a functioning armanents industry during his campaigns against France and Britain.
That, to me, constitutes a lot more help than Wall Street investing in various German firms, some of which were US subsidiaries, during peacetime. Unlike Stalin, it's not like these people cut Hitler a check personally.
That's right Arby63. Never forget that the U.S.A. is an exceptional nation and our duty is to rule the world. If any country won't accept American Democracy and Freedom, then we should bomb the crap out them until they do.
C'mon and sign up for the FAKE WAR .... support PUTIN and be apart of this BULLSHIT
Die so some BANKERS can make some money off you ..
OIL WARS are cool
Russia good.
US bad.
Ugh.
We'll trade a few million bloated wetbacks for a few blond Moscowettes please.
Weekend FSB Tyler post. Check.
Well, we sorta need something to balance out the daily MSM-CIA posts, don't we...?
"A second consequence for the US deep state would be the loss of Europe in the new Cold War. Except from Britons, who have traditional deep ties and common interests with the US, the rest of Europe could slip to the Sino-Russian bloc which grows rapidly in the military and economic field and increasingly gaining independence from the Western economic system, attracting other countries too."
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/11/basic-reasons-for-which-us-de...
... and that is the central theme of Brzezinski's "Grand Chess Board", whose introduction concludes with:
"it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.
Zbigniew Brzezinski
Washington, DC. April 1997"
And the catalyst will be : Germany.
Bomb thread at JFK Airport
http://rt.com/usa/210199-jfk-bomb-threat-plane/
Russia in an overall assessment is generally weaker than the American Empire in geopolitical manouvers but is stronger in the Ukraine local militarily. China while it backs Russia as an ally also uses the situation to it's own advantage in her dealings with Russia. This is a monumental struggle of the elites we are witnessing but the common person only fits into the equation as a sacrificial pawn; witness Ukrainian ethnic cleansing and the MH 17 mass murder, let alone the death and destruction in the Mid East and Afghanistan. Meanwhile the west's ponzi debt based money system has choked itself with so much debt that fatal suffocation or a decades long stay in coma is the result. Again the common person is of little value if not a negative one in some respects to the financial structure and to those that own it.
Russia is much weaker than the USA. Militarily, the US is a global empire that rules 1/3 of the earth. But the point of Russia's positin is that Russia is purely engaged in the military problem of self defense of Russia and Russian ethnic populations that Soviet Communism left hanging in places like Donbass. Thus their military problem is very simple and their resources are well up to the job of defending Russia's nationhood. Their military spending is almost all defensive, with huge sums going into Anti Aircraft Missile and detection systems, as NATO counts on total air power to win any conflict. Russia need not control the air, they need only inflict enough losses to shorten any NATO air war to around 30 days time, before losses cripple the air forces. This requires Russian S-300, S-400, S-500 and TOR M2U along with division level point defense systems and their new passive air detection and fire control systems, to inflict a dozen or so shoot downs a day, easily done with the new systems, inside a month, 400-500 of NATO best air craft and pilots are gone. Missiles are cheap to make compared to fornt line pilots and their aircraft. And TOR M2u is built to point defend against smart bombs, cruise missiles and lazer bombs. Making drone warfare a hopeless enterprise. Besides, Russia keeps a small but ultra modern Fighter force, these need only fly at chosen times and for good reason, while missiles do all the heavy lifting.
A good defense requires a much larger for to defeat, and NATO has no invasion force that could withtand one major battle where tanks and infantry are engaged by Russian anti tank guided missiles and the Iskander surface to surface missile system with it's air field killer and tank division killer war heads. Also EMP weapons are mounted on Iskander which can fly to a couple meters from target. Sadly for NATO, their troops do not want to die, they have no motivation to fight Russia, while Russians have every motivation in the world to defend. So the East Ukraine, whre Kiev attacked rebels with a 50-1 advantage in armor and artillery, and got asses handed to them by rebels. No Russian army in Ukraine has ever been filmed or photographed from above, thus ne evidence has ever been given by NATO to the UN that can be verified by anyone. Let Donetsk be a lesson, rebels with old weapons outnumbered by NATO Kiev army.
Which is what I have been thinking - that NATO is on a fool’s errand to try to pressure Putin to do anything. He’s holding the advantage.
Anyone who roots for America now is rooting for the new world order, or, according to Obama recently, the globalists’ “new international order.” Americans appear to be one of the least informed populations in the world.
That seems to me to be a reasonable analysis, although it has been many years since I looked up Jane's to scrutinize anything to do with military strategy.
I think you are absolutely right to emphasize the Russian motivation for defending their own ground, after all, the Warsaw Pact is within most people's living memories and what they see now are wholesale encroachments on their home ground. I remember that there were strong calls for NATO to be disbanded after the Soviet Union disbanded their military alliances and it was a huge turning point for peace in the world when instead NATO grew stronger and bigger.
The problem we have right now is twofold. The private central bank of the global reserve currency and its zionist minions needing war to divert attention away from their crimes and failures. The complete delusion hoodwinking the political and military leaders who are blinded by the previous successes with technological warfare. It's a perfect shitstorm of arrogance and necessity driving the psychopaths ever closer to a global conflagration. Those who get in the way of their plans will get relegated so I expect more purges in the administration before things get under way.
"But the point of Russia's positin is that Russia is purely engaged in the military problem of self defense of Russia and Russian ethnic populations that Soviet Communism left hanging in places like Donbass. Thus their military problem is very simple and their resources are well up to the job of defending Russia's nationhood. Their military spending is almost all defensive, with huge sums going into Anti Aircraft Missile and detection systems, as NATO counts on total air power to win any conflict."
The question is, does Russia intend on linking up with all the ethnic populations located outside Russia or not. How about Moldova? To permanently support a Moldovian seperation, Russia will need a land bridge cutting clear across southern Ukraine. What about the Balkan nations who are already NATO members? Latvia and Lithuania have roughly 25% of their populations of russian decent. Kazakhstan also has about a quarter of their population of russian decent. Are they on the list?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=latvia%2C+russian+population%2C+map&...
If the answer is yes, the consequences will be disasterous.
But that also would explain your post and why Russia is blowing huge sums on weapons against NATO airpower capability. Any uprising within a NATO country will be confronted with NATO forces. The problem is, the same tactics used in Crimea and in eastern Ukraine will not stay localized. It will elevate into WWIII. Thing is, Russia may even win, but what it wins is another story altogether.
To paraphrase Pope Francis from Tuesday's speech to the European Parliment; " The great ideals which once inspired Europe (and the West) seem to have lost their attraction". Conservatives have been unable to restrain the West's liberalism. Liberalism has a virtual monopoly on the world conversation; the narrative (via media) is in their full control. If they want acceptance of anything decadent, they get it. Liberals have a nihilistic approach to domination. First, destroy the institution, then supplant it with whatever increases the liberal viewpoint. Ultra-liberalism is ultra self-destructive... the problem is that they are going to take us and the whole world with them unless some new conservative power rises up to challenge, expose and defeat them.
AuH2O is still alive? Huh...........?
+1 for the discrete reference.
No. But let's hope his brand of conservatism will be thriving soon. (and nice vanity plate)
The problem for Russia is that it only has a population of 150 million. The Chinese will only help so much because they are most interested in business, and Russia is surrounded by vassals.
What was the population of Vietnam again, back then in the '70. And how the Americans fared there ?
Or the population of Afghanistan?
In chaos, fine with the empire.
The Americans ended up very well in Vietnam, last I checked it is a vassal state. The plan for Russia is to not attack it directly as the first attemp at Vietnam, just encircle it with vassals and economically starve it to death.
Just curious, how do you feel that plan is coming along?
American military 1 - VietCong 0. Saigon was taken by NorViet army because few VietCong survived. That happened because Dems defunded the democratic (tho obviously flawed) regime in Saigon.
Seems US military clearly outperformed Russia's drunks in Afghanistan.
I'm pretty sure my dick is bigger than yours.
Americans arent interested in reason. They are only interested in taking over banks and crude oil production. Americans refuse to talk to countries whom they cant exploit.
You can trust Vlad. Look deep into his eyes and you see a humble and honest man who will never lie to you. Look deeper and deeper, you are now becoming rather sleepy and relaxed and safe in the open arms of Vlad The Wonderful....
How much more secure you must feel in the arms of the Black Plague of Washington.
The Black Plague of Washington, as you characterize him in your non-racist way, is term-limited.
Wanna have a bet on when Putin quits ruling the Grand Duchy of Evil?
We already know that he will not be term-limited out of office, don't we, Mr. Weekend Okhrana dude?
I trust Vladimir Putin will not even consider retiring until such time as he knows as a certainty that Russia is safe from politicians like Cheney, the Bushes, Obama, Brennan, Clapper, Rasmussen, Barroso, Cameron, Abbott, Harper, so on and so forth.
The Russian people are not as hoodwinked about their freedoms as you seem to be about yours.
"That's not something that the Russians would ever do because they don't threaten"
Really, Mr Orlov? Well, here's a splendid example of how Russians would never threaten, straight from the official Russian propaganda channel:
http://rt.com/op-edge/209695-war-russia-nato-missile-defense/
"- Russian ICBMs armed with MIRVs travel at about 18 Mach; that is way faster than anything in the US arsenal. And basically they are unbeatable.
- The S-400 and S-500 double trouble; Moscow has agreed to sell the S-400 surface-to-air missile system to China; the bottom line is this will make Beijing impermeable to US air power, ICBMs and cruise missiles. Russia, for its part, is already focusing on the state of the art S-500 – which essentially makes the Patriot anti-missile system look like a V-2 from WWII.
- The Russian Iskander missile travels at Mach 7 – with a range of 400km, carrying a 700kg warhead of several varieties, and with a circular error probability of around five meters. Translation: an ultimate lethal weapon against airfields or logistic infrastructure. The Iskander can reach targets deep inside Europe.
- And then there’s the Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA.
NATO clowns dreaming of a war on Russia would have to come up with an ironclad system to knock out these Iskanders. They don’t have any. Additionally, they would have to face the S-400s, which the Russians can deploy all over the spectrum.
Think of a hefty batch of S-400s positioned at the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad; that would turn NATO air operations deep inside Europe into an absolutely horrendous nightmare. On top of it, good ol’ NATO fighter jets cost a fortune. Imagine the effect of hundreds of destroyed fighter jets on an EU already financially devastated and austerity-plagued to death.
As if this was not enough, no one knows the exact extent of NATO’s strategic capabilities. Brussels is not talking. Extra-officially, these capabilities are not exactly a marvel. And Russian intelligence knows it.
Still assuming those NATO clowns would insist on playing war, Moscow has already made it very clear Russia would use their awesome arsenal of 5,000-plus tactical nuclear weapons - and whatever else it takes - to defend the nation against a NATO conventional attack. Moreover, a few thousand S-400 and S-500 systems are enough to block a US nuclear attack."
Have you guys finished hunting for the Yellow Submarine yet ? Bunch of drunken clowns...
Has nothing to do with threatening.
That's just showing off knowing you are the best.
Really, Mr Boergesson?
Why don't you try this Russian propaganda from the US State Department on for size? Be careful. It may shrink your privates so small it will take you a week to find them.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Sure, I don't know if it's true. Then again, unless we're actually there when something happens, we all rely on the MSM for our daily dose of bullshit.
Explaining their defensive position and why its a fools errand to fuck with them is hardly a stance of an agressor. Keep trying though, youre really just grnading your own narrative.
I'm not trying to win a debate against the hordes of Russian psyops. They're paid to yap here, while I'm not. I'm just trying to remind the few remaining independent ZH readers that there are always two sides to a story. Just because the US is with every passing month turning themselves more and more into the bad guy, this doesn't mean that Russia becomes the good guy. They're both bad, and obviously both totally self-serving. They just act out their schemes in slightly different ways. And whoever comes out on top,the little guy will be stepped on.
it is degrees of goodness or badness, whatever refernece you prefer. as an american, i think i share the same thoughts as many americans with regard to what is happening vis a vis usa opposition to russia and china.
the bottom line is if the american people cannot save ourselves from what the usa has become;(i don't think any enlightened american likes what they see happening to the usa) if someone else can help us we would really appreciate it even if ultimately our lives may be in danger from the resulting conflict. it sounds a bit useless and even treasonous to cheer another country's attack upon your own country unless the common enemy is recognized.
we have a common enemy. go putin!
If you dont want to debate or try to win one, wh are you even here? Unless the right sector is paying you to be here. GCHQ maybe? J-Trig? or are you just software? Seriously some examples of the evils carried out by Putin would really help your cause, anything?
Börjesson, displaying typical 'american' reading comprehension problems, said:
Linked article is an opinion piece written by Pepe Escobar, a Brazilian. Perhaps this guy has typical 'american' geographical skills and thinks Brazil is a Russian oblast. Made me laugh.
Heh... "Iskanders"... Kaliningrad...
Kaliningrad's gas pipelines go right through their best friend's yard - Lithuania. As well as any direct, compatible-rail gauge infrastructure.
Turn off the gas, stop the trains supplying food, goods, people (and tanks), and you've got a brand new yellow star on a blue flag in two months. And the official recognition of Russian as an EU language, which is something that actually scares the shit out of Putin, becasue once THAT happens, Russians will think they're outright EUropeans.
So,to sum up your point about how the Russians never thereaten, merely act...
You say that they have abandoned the doctrine of no-first-use of nuclear weapons
and are now widely deploying banned theater nuclear weapons
and, although you did not mention this, are deploying mobile ICBMs and up-MIRVed warheads-- both a complete breakout of existing arms limitation treaties.
So... Are these threats or are they merely the first indicators of upcoming action- as you yourself claim?
In either case, they are gross violations of international law.
Russia needs to invest in green energy conversion like OTEC and algae bio fuel, bio mass into bio gas from regenerative agriculture like hemp or the pawlonia tree. Permaculture design for soil fertility. Composting. They are much closer to sustainable security than we are. As Is China. But using natural gas for fertilizers and gmo seedless food web is a crisis Unprecedented, and that is America. Whoever launches these integrated green technologies like an ocean thermal energy platform in the South Pacific creating new Eco villages that produce power and water for royalty wealth will be the victors. The Europeans, the Israelis and the United States have been withholding these technologies for far too long. All to protect a petroleum monetary system. It's a death spiral and a house of cards net energy loss. This isn't a competion between the west and Russia. This is a death trap for the entire world. No one is moving in the appropriate direction. What has me so perplexed is that the designs I'm talking about will create a community that works way less than any community in history. It's not about longer work hours to continue growth it's about efficiency and automated systems smart grids and using nature to work for you. That's what's inside permaculture design. So while we continue to think that we need more jobs and growth we could be thinking to volunteer together in a village to grow energy and water from OTEC, and build royalties from these systems to live an easy life. But for some reason this message remains mute. We don't have to mine our way to prosperity anymore. We just have to change culture.
>>>smart grids
You sir, are a fool. Might want to educate yourself on "Lilly Wave".
What a bunch of eco-gobbledygook bullshit.
Go kiss a turtle for cryin' out loud.
One square of TP will become very valuable. You will get neighbors to compromise themselves for such niceties. Stock up.
Crazy as that sounds - or is ridiculed, it is actually sage advice. The problem in the U.S., is that it has been at least (70) years since there was ~anything remotely~ resembling 'hardship'. Of course, one could argue the late 70's and the gasoline filling station lines were a 'hardship' of sorts, but that episode didn't keep anyone from a full belly or a clean asshole. The thin veneer of civilization metaphor comes to mind when chowing down on Thanksgiving day and observe the hordes crowd the streets, malls, highways, etc.
It would be Absolute Bedlam in most major U.S. metropolitan areas if shortages (of anything necessity-oriented) were to occur and/or last for any more than 72 hours.
Good advice for the Russians, but then they are already familiar with such things.
Borj: Really, Mr Orlov?
Yea, really. This is in response to USA (NATO) ring fensing Russia wih military bases.
You might be important to you, but to NATO, you aren’t important. You are planned ‘collateral damage’.
My patience is wearing thin, too.
On a scale of 1 to 7, 1 being most free and 7 least free, Freedom House rates Russia a 5.5: 5 in civil liberties, 6 in political rights.
The Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom rates Russia 140th out of 178 nation-states, giving it a score of 51.1, at the "unfree" end of "mostly unfree". A score 49.9 or lower is the lowest possible, or "repressed". Since 1995, the 'highest' score Russia has received was a 54.5 in 1999.
So, Russia is still a totalitarian state, and its citizens are sheep. Actually, calling Russians sheep is an outright slur against sheep, since sheep are totally fucking demeaned comparing them to Russians.
Be skeptical of your sources. For example, 80% of Freedom House's funding comes from the US Federal Government.
Heritage Foundation is just another CIA backed NGO. They should rename themselves Liars for Hire.
Whereas you are a direct governmental employee of the Grand Duchy of Evil. So your point is what, exactly? That the CIA pays better than the FSB? I detect a whiff of jealousy.
your posts are getting stupider even more
The Heritage Foundation!!!
(upchucks into air sickness bag)
You base your views on what the Heritage Foundation says????
So according to AIPAC Russia is a terrible place. Sure pal. Russian CEO's are 43% women. Did you know that? What percentage of CEO are women in the more free us?
Hmmm. It appears nobody contested the substance of my previous post. Why not? Maybe because they can't?
I wonder if any Russkyphile can post any credible links purporting to show that Russian is not a totalitarian state?
Try this one:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/29/russia-s-freest-website-now-lives-in-latvia.html
Devastating link. To quote that great Russky Kasparov, "I resign."
feeble
Freedom House and Heritage Foundation is some one sided in real..
after all who pays their bills?.
though once in great while they might get it right...
http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2003/03/russias-flat-tax-miracle
otherwise, You know nothing about Russians
ignorant goat
You know nothing about Russians
I read the Russkies who comment here. Are you saying that ZH Russkies are not representative of Russians today?
QED.
By the way, this "ignorant goat" posted links to credible organizations who rate Russian freedoms as being almost non-existent. This "ignorant goat" also posted a challenge to ZH Russkyphiles to link to credible organization who rate Russian a free country.
I presume that, since you didn't, you're ignorant of such links. That's awfully baaaaaaaad.
If Orlov is so down on the US, why does he stay here?
I got the impression that he was down on the rulership elite of the US, not the US itself.
One doesn't need to leave the US in order to acknowledge the truth. Not yet, anyway.
all i know is i have a lot more confidence avoiding the fate of collaterall damage if i were on putin's side than the side of the pedophilias of britain and the limp wristed fags in dc.
But your risk of being assassinated is great. See Politkovskaya for details!
Gold backed RUB?
Bring it Vlad!!
I remain on the side lines right now on this news. But, given the logic of the evidence, I am relatively sure that 2 Ukrainian SU-25's gunned MH-17 out of the air. I won't recap evidence, I have presented it several times before.
But many wonder why Russia is so silent, when they know 100% who shot MH-17 down. US silence makes perfect sense. But why Russia? It seems this may be about to end. Using a Russian TV News program, it seems that that news outlet is going to run with a TV program that proclaims both the "hull number of the SU-25 aircraft", "the unit numbers of the 2 SU-25's flying with MH-17" and best of all "The name of the pilot of the SU-25 who pulled the trigger and sent three blasts of 30MM cannon fire into the cockpit of MH-17".
Now, Russia knows the west will attack any news shows coming from Russia. But that is not at all important. By putting out the identification numbers of the Ukrainian Air Force Unit that the two SU-25's flew for, by revealing their Hull Numbers and by giving the name of the pilot, they will be able to put the world's independent press onto the scent! Right now, that is all that matters. Make the facts known, let the west ignore them, but by god that offers some real meat to other's who want to look into the MH-17 shoot down.
I have heard some very reasonable and intelligent foreign policy types from Europe, Russia and Asia, make the comment that the west will be exposed as real criminals and liars when the facts of MH-17 come out. I agree, facts in this case can not be hidden for ever. Russia is leaking the facts to their own media, this will start the ball rolling. That is all we need, just get truth out, and let time and others seek to find out more.
Most of all, ask yourself this. After initial reports by Western Governments that first Russia , then the Rebels shot MH-17 down, WHY all the silence since then. Dead silence! The Media is silent, Government is silent, FOX news is silent, the few ZH posters who favor Kiev are silent. SILENCE!
The pilot who shot down MH-17 has already been published, he's living in the UAE now apparently.
.
SU-25 that hit the "Boeing", flown by Dmytro Jacod
http://z5h64q92x9.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/www.segodnia.ru/news/152332
I gave you a downvote. SImply because some of my software says that site is a phishing trap. Is this true? Or is it safe enough for me to unblock it? Wouldnt mind reading it.
I got there through Yandex translate. Try this,
http://translate.yandex.com/translate
and put http://www.segodnia.ru/news/152332 into the translation box if you're worried about it. I haven't had a problem, and I use it daily (it saves time).
The domain z5h64q92x9.net is registered to yandex.net (see here for more info).
The URL prefix
http://z5h64q92x9.net/tr-url/auto-ru-en.ru/
is a shortcut to the yandex Russian-to-English translation service. Several months ago it replaced the URL prefix
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/
as a shortcut.
It is a simple way to get a machine translation of a Russian language web site. For example, to read the Colonel Cassad site (http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/) in machine-translated English, you would type in the following location:
http://z5h64q92x9.net/tr-url/auto-ru-en.ru/colonelcassad.livejournal.com
If you prefer google translate to read the article linked to by socalbeach, strip off the yandex shortcut prefix and have google translate the part that remains:
www.segodnia.ru/news/152332
Thanks Stooge! I needed a simple way to read Cassad. Regular english translations no longer are prepared. Just tried your link, and am reading the up to date translations of the battle field situations again!
Jack, there is militaryphotos site also..".the original butthurtthread"..
ever go there?
What is the link?
Indeed, this matches the TV news report I saw went on air in Russia. The West says nothing, even when the aircraft and pilot are identified. Kiev must be pissing all over itself. All they have now is the west's promise of silence or lies, but this cover up will fail. Britain has had the Black Box for months, why is it there, why has Malaysia been cut out of the information loop. The recent lawsuit by a German family against Kiev is a threat to the cover up. Let's see how Washington plays this now. Because Washington DC alone controls the EU and the Western Media, now they must control German courts too, and shut them down on this law suit. Slowly the truth is seeping out, "Putin's Missile" is almost certainly Two Ukrainian Air Force SU-25's seen in the air right next to the MH-17 when it feel from the sky! Not one living soul has seen or photographed the large vapor trail a BUK missile would have left for 5-20 minutes after the crash. Not one report of a vapor trail, not a single one. Yet Obama knows that Russia did it. The Black fucking puppet that he is!
Where can we find the independent press? Certainly not in the US or the EU. In any case, Americans will never hear about it. They have totally bought into the idea of Putin as Hitler, as you know of course.
As most of the happily married ZH commentors know, when there is a dispute between two parties, victory goes to the patient one.
Yup. Sure does. Russians have learned this well after enduring and successfully countering countless invasions. The outcome of this latest attack, an economic invasion, of sorts, will be no different that the rest. Russia will win again.
i have data that the level of patience needed is multiplied by the number on the insanity scale(1-10) your partner is posting during the dispute.
the usa has lost its mind and it would behoove the world to help them find it before it is too late.
As time goes by Putin continues to rack up more points in the Ukraine as the conflict drags on. Putin is playing the long game by grinding away at the resolve of both bankrupt Kiev and the EU. A recently signed deal for gas supplies to Ukraine was a sign of hope to many, but it only highlights the devil of any agreement is in the details.
The Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak said any resumed supplies could be halted again on Jan. 1 if Ukraine doesn’t pay $3.1 billion in debt prepay for future deliveries. It appears this deal is tenuous and the guarantees of it being fulfilled are weak. Don't hold your breath for Putin to back-off or back-down, he has put down his marker and is now playing both Obama and Kerry for fools. If Putin doesn't get his way next week he will next month or next year at the latest. The article below delves into why this conflict won't be over until Putin says its over.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/11/putin-scores-more-points-in-ukraine.html
When you consider how little any of us know of the facts, it only remains to take what is common knowledge and draw conclusions from it.
We saw the coup in Kiev in February. We saw that Viktor Yanukovych used none of the assets at his disposal to put it down. We saw Nuland, Ashton and CIA Director Brennan in Maidan Square before the coup. We saw the Donbas region, including Crimea, break away from Kiev after the coup. Fighting broke out in the Donbas in April. Counter revolutionaries brought down Ukrainian military planes.
On July 17 a passenger jet, ordered by air traffic controllers to transit over the area of conflict, was shot out of the sky. The ATC tapes of the conversation between the plane and air traffic controllers immediately went missing. The Ukrainian army shelled the area where the the wreckage lay hindering investigators . The recovered black boxes were examined but the results were not made public. The preliminary report said only that several high energy objects pierced the fuselage, but did not say if any were cannon fire. A week of two ago we learned that Malaysia, whose plane was brought down, was not permitted to be on the investigative body examining the wreckage, but UKRAINE, A SUSPECT, WAS.
There was a lull in the fighting between the Minsk Protocol on September 5 and the Russia Ukraine Gas deal on October 30. A few days after the gas deal was signed, heavy fighting in Donbas broke out again.
What do I think is going on?
The West is stalling the release of hard evidence to the public. While they stall and delay, they are desperately trying to taunt Putin into sending Russian troops into Donbas.
If that were to happen, it would become the lead story. And MH17 would be treated as old -- but not that important any more -- news.
And in the four and a half months since MH17 went down, Ukraine, if it was responsible, has had enough time to concoct a thousand stories.
Too many people it appears a struggle is occurring to unseat America as the worlds most dominate nation. For many proud Americans who see the United States as having a right to be in control it is both threatening and frustrating to see that control slip away.
It is threatening to think the country might quickly fall to the position of a second rate power mired in debt with many of the options we have come to see as our right suddenly ripped away. It is frustrating that in many ways America appears to have become its own worse enemy guilty of political inaction and squandering its power through a series of bad choices and missteps. More in the article below about the continuing massive shift in power to Asia and how America must immediately face its problems to set its house in order.
http://brucewilds.blogspot.com/2014/06/americas-struggle-to-stay-on-top.html
Everything Russia has become since 1989 is a direct reaction to the actions of the US and the West.
Including the its advances in missile and rocket technology and, if it's not apocryphal, in anti-electronic communication warfare. Visibility reduction.
So raise your glasses of Khibiny, boys. Here's to Russia's patience.
"To Russia's patience"
And I'll raise my glass to January 20, 2017.
To America's patience
And boy are you guys going to be sorry once we have a real President once again. Make your mischief while you still can, Ivan. You got two years to play while the cat's on vacay.
Yet even our current pseudo CinC is kicking your ass around the moon with his sanctions.
Hey, can your eye of newt find Birnam wood?
It's gone and there's a car park where it used to be.
Waiting to be shown ...?
http://patrick.net/forum/?p=1223928
Much of what he says is nonsence...
Some truth, but he mostly followings the Putin is a "Great Leader" proganda line.
Shake N Bake (And I Helped)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB7j3sUWohE (0:33)
The Cars-Shake it up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq-yoorI7lo (3:39)
If anyone has been following the situation with Turkey and Cyprus, you will realize that Russia and to some extent China are about to set foot in the Eastern Mediterranean for good. The US and NATO threats are not takes seriously anymore by anyone who is anyone.
That's an interesting theory. I had been thinking that Turkey was giving the US/EU an excuse to take over the area and take control of the natural gas. Something is definitely brewing over there.
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Multiple post due to server going full retard.
This is completely ridiculous. Dmitry Orlov has made a personal choice that the United States is a better place to be than Russia. If he believed his own bull shit he would have moved back.
Stop falling for the lie of East vs West.....seek truth and see reality
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/2014/11/14/1945-british-national-archives-document-reveals-prime-minister-clement-attlee-desire-for-new-world-order-with-russia-u-k-and-u-s/
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/2014/10/27/russian-bank-hires-two-former-u-s-senators/
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/2014/11/19/u-s-using-russian-rocket-engines-to-launch-spy-satelites/
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/2014/11/07/jpmorgans-deal-with-gazprom-cements-thier-relationship-of-course/
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/2014/11/21/u-s-chevron-enter-joint-project-with-russias-lukoil-in-nigeria/
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/2014/11/03/globalist-connections-u-n-s-michael-moller-it-russia-is-one-the-very-important-countries-in-practically-everything-that-we-do/
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/germany-to-drop-probe-into-u-s-spying-on-merkel-of-course/
http://newworldorderg20.wordpress.com/the-g20-are-collaberators-in-the-new-world-order/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuBe93FMiJc
I've started down voting anything from Dmitry Orlov the same way I do anything from Simon Black... useless words not grounded in reality at best, bald faced NeoComm propaganda at worst...
You nailed it, Content-free noise at best.
ARBY63 nails it quite well, USA will return, just like after the disaster of Jimmy Carter's depression. Reagan's spirit will rise again, perhaps not in 2016. Putin sadly will continue his wars, & one cannot foresee to where, perhaps Poland, or even invade to his KGB home (East Berlin, where Merkel was also in 1983, when USSR downed Korean ariliner, just like Russian missile downed Malaysian airline).
Putin will probably be removed by disgruntled members of his own crime family, as he destroys their wealth, as well as any serious future for Russia, whose economy stands as a one-trick pony based on energy, virtually nothing else is exported by Russia, except vodka & caviar. Russians themselves, despite state-funded polls, realize this, but know not to risk joining Politkovskaya and other opponents of Putin, too numerous to list.
The ruble's in the toilet, exchanging at record lows against all world currencies.
Oil's in the toilet, dropping more than 10% recently after having already arrived in the basement.
The Russian economy's in the toilet, with even domestic goods and simple marshutka (trolley-bus) rides going up across the board.
Vlad's currency fund is bleeding like a sieve, and soon he'll be forced to borrow at punitive 9-10% rates like other retrobate economies who've recently defaulted on their currencies.
Enjoy, Vlad!!!