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Swiss Gold Referendum Fails: 78% Vote Against "Protecting The Country's Wealth"
Whether as a result of an unprecedented scare campaign by the Swiss National Bank (most recently reinforced by Citigroup), or due to confidence that Swiss gold is as safe abroad as it is at home, or simply due to good old-fashioned "hanging chads", today's most awaited event has come and gone and the result - according to early projections by Swiss television SRF - is that the Swiss population overwhelmingly rejected a referendum to force the Swiss National Bank to hold some 20% of its reserves in gold in a landslide vote, with about 78% voting against what AP politely termed "protecting the country's wealth by investing in gold."
As Bloomberg reports, the proposal stipulating the Swiss National Bank hold at least 20 percent of its 520-billion-franc ($540 billion) balance sheet in gold was voted down by 78 percent to 22 percent, according to projections by Swiss television SRF as of 1:00 p.m. local time. The initiative “Save Our Swiss Gold” also would have prohibited the SNB from ever selling any of its bullion and required the 30 percent currently stored in Canada and the U.K. to be repatriated.
A ballot box is emptied at a voting center in Zurich today.
A map showing the breakdown of the Swiss vote by canton: none of the 23 Swiss regions had a majority vote for the gold initiative.
That said the decision will likley not come as a surprise because while early polls gave the yes camp a surprising lead, subsequently polling showed a marked shift in public opinion, and forecast the initiative’s rejection.
The biggest winner, of course, is the Swiss central bank: SNB policy makers warned repeatedly that the measure would have made it harder to keep prices stable and shield the central bank’s cap on the franc of 1.20 per euro. That minimum exchange rate was set three years ago, with the SNB pledging to buy foreign currency in unlimited amounts to defend it.
“The SNB can feel confirmed in its policy,” said Martin Gueth, economist at LBBW in Stuttgart. “By rejecting the gold measure, voters have come out in favor of its current stance.”
Referendums are a key feature of Switzerland’s system of direct democracy, and are held nationally and at a municipal level several times a year. The gold initiative was launched by a handful of members of the European Union-skeptic Swiss People’s Party. Uneasy about the more than 100 billion euros the SNB holds, they contend their initiative will strengthen -- not weaken -- the central bank’s credibility.
However, SNB President Jordan labeled the initiative “dangerous” and his fellow board member Fritz Zurbruegg said accepting the measure meant the room for maneuver “on currency reserves would be dramatically restricted, with negative consequences for the Swiss economy.”
The central bank, based in Bern and Zurich, would have faced a three-year deadline for repatriating its bullion from abroad and five to meet the 20 percent benchmark. With the European Central Bank poised to enact more stimulus to boost feeble growth and inflation, economists surveyed by Bloomberg News in a poll published on Nov. 19 had expected the SNB to maintain its ceiling on the franc into 2017.
The question now is what will happen to the Swiss France, which recently rose to a 26-month high against the euro. For many the concern that a successful gold referendum served as a catalyst to avoid going all in the CHF, as gold purchases would have weakened the currency. “If the euro crisis doesn’t get worse, then the minimum exchange rate will be defendable, said David Marmet, an economist at Zuercher Kantonalbank. Had the initiative been accepted, ‘‘instruments such as negative rates that don’t widen the balance sheet” would have been an option, he said.
With the referendum out of the way, the CHF may paradoxically find itself with a situation in which the inflows in the CHF force it to double down on defending the cap: economists have questioned whether the SNB will now find itself having to reinforce its cap with a negative interest rate on the cash-like deposits commercial banks keep with the central bank, making good on its threat to take further steps “immediately” if necessary.
And then there is the question of what happens to the tension in the gold swap market: as noted last week, the 1 Month GOFO rate had tumbled to the most negative in over a decade. It was not clear if this collateral gold squeeze was the result of Swiss referendum overhang or due to other reasons. The market's reaction on Monday should answer those questions.
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Stupes... either rigged vote or they have a buncha baa baa sheeple like the U.S.
Paper ballots counted in the open or electronic ones counted in secret?
It's all Bullshit!!!
If votes dont go the way u want them dont make it stolen. This only proves to me that Swiss people aint as stupid as the people on this propaganda page.
Well i'm as doubtful as the next guy here on what central bankers are doing these days, but this proposal was badly conceived. Why should the central bank never be allowed to sell gold?
Since Switzerland has direct democracy, what that means in practice is that they wouldn't have been able to sell it with the stroke of a pen from a bureaucrat; selling would require another referendum, i.e. could only happen in a legitimate crisis.
I'll get roundly trashed for saying this, but these would have been the consequences of a YES vote:
1. Gold would have skyrocketed in price as the Swiss CB, currently at 7% gold holdings, would have had to buy over 60 tonnes to reach the mandated 20% holdings. Force the CB by law to buy high, sell low. Is Gordon Brown in the room? Hello?
2. The Swiss franc, currently pegged to the Euro, would strengthen so badly the peg would have to be abandoned. Bye bye Swis export economy, even if it is in luxury goods.
3. The CB would be chained to a giant golden ball. No easing allowed. No increase on money supply allowed without commensurate mass purchase of bullion. If your supply of money stays the same while everyone else's increases, what does that spell? Deflation. Under this plan, Switzerland becomes the Japan of Europe, only worse, because at least Japan has options. Not so the Swiss, if this had passed.
4. Who does the gold standard benefit? By this I really mean, who benefits from an inflexible money supply? Answer: The people with the money. Maybe all Swiss are rich, but freezing your money supply when everyone else is trying to debase theirs is called National Suicide.
5. Those in the US and in the ZH community who continue to hold gold against all experience and common sense, desperately wish to stop the hemhorraging of their asset losses. All I can say is, "Too bad you weren't alowed to vote in the Swiss referendum." The fact you are all so disappointed is evidence of how desperately stupid gold investments are, in that you needed this kind of deus ex machina to save your sorry asses from your own incurable auromania.
Hey penis breath. Time will tell.
Wouldn't this mean that the average Swiss citizen's purchasing power just skyrocketed? They would be able to buy more goods and services than the other Euro countries? Why? as a reward for historically only spending less than they earn- as a country. Yes, this would devastate their export economy temporarily, but reward each and every citizen. They could afford to subsidize each citizen temporarily affected by the export disruption. Their companies would then learn how to hedge better. This has happened throughtout history and has turned out OK in the past. When other countries have officially devalued their currency relative to the dollar did we perish?
No I did not down-vote you since you obviously are a young(er) fella lacking a basic understanding of why many people invest in gold. Some of us have been buying PM's for decades as part of a balanced investment strategy. Therefore, our per ounce acquisition cost is very low, so a correction such as we have seen recently is not a sleep loosing event. Gold is an insurance policy should the PTB loose control.
"The Swiss franc, currently pegged to the Euro, would strengthen so badly the peg would have to be abandoned. Bye bye Swis export economy, even if it is in luxury goods."
It's as-if Swiss companies wouldn't be able to *decrease* price in order to stay competitive instead of relying on a decreasing Swiss franc pegged to a decreasing Euro!
And now if you tell me that the Swiss people are paid in CHF and would therefore be too expensive, just remember that the largest employers in Switzerland didn't miss a heart beat massively relocating workload in India or in other low-wages countries, and didn't give a flying f about the impact on Swiss workers. UBS is just about to do that with 4000 jobs BTW. It is true though that middle and small sized companies would suffer, (I mean the ones that didn't relocate). But assisting them temporarily would have revealed less expensive than ruining the country by pegging CHF against crappy Euro anyway.
Let's test your rationale a bit further, and let's imagine the Euro value decreases by 50 % during the next two months. Do you imply that Switzerland would have to throw half of their reserves through the loo in order to stay compatible with peg ? Gimme a break!
"4. Who does the gold standard benefit? By this I really mean, who benefits from an inflexible money supply? Answer: The people with the money."
Nope.
A gold standard would "just" oblige a) the government to show "some" discipline in terms of expenses, and b) would allow for smoother readjustments of the economy - as opposed to the injection of trillions of monetary units into the economy like the recent US governements elected to do.
Remember the MV=PQ equation ? Can you imagine the deflation that will take place if all the trilions created out of thin air by Obama disappear? This would have hardly been possible under a gold standard.
Buy moar stawks guy!
Why should the central bank never be allowed to sell gold?
A better question is: why is the central bank allowed to exist?
IT's all Au negative....no matter what the result was.
Bend Over Again Slaves.
Never saw this coming...
/s
I thought it would have been fixed a little closer so as to make it sort of believable.
A very sad day for us Swiss,if true.
That fizzled out disappointingly.
If you want your central bank you can keep your central bank...
The US war on gold + the US war on European economy is winning
Swiss Gold referendum live updates here:
http://www.rts.ch/info/suisse/6344026-ecopop-forfaits-fiscaux-or-de-la-bns-les-resultats-en-direct.html
Use to translate
https://translate.yandex.com/translate
OK, one of you guys straighten me out on something here. This is a statement contained in the article which could be interpreted either way as far as what the passage of the law would have meant with regard to either strengthening or weakening the CHF.
"The biggest winner, of course, is the Swiss central bank: SNB policy makers warned repeatedly that the measure would have made it harder to keep prices stable and shield the central bank’s cap on the franc of 1.20 per euro. That minimum exchange rate was set three years ago, with the SNB pledging to buy foreign currency in unlimited amounts to defend it."
I took it to mean that they would have had a problem keeping the CHF from strengthening if the referendum passed.
Here is the second quote: "The question now is what will happen to the Swiss France, which recently rose to a 26-month high against the euro. For many the concern that a successful gold referendum served as a catalyst to avoid going all in the CHF, as gold purchases would have weakened the currency. “If the euro crisis doesn’t get worse, then the minimum exchange rate will be defendable, said David Marmet, an economist at Zuercher Kantonalbank. Had the initiative been accepted, ‘‘instruments such as negative rates that don’t widen the balance sheet” would have been an option, he said. "
So, the CHF rose to a 26 month high, presumably because this referendum may have passed. How did a successful gold referendum serve as a catalyst to keep people from buying the CHF and how the FUCK to they come to the conclusion that it would 'weaken" the currency?
Didn't this whole excercise just prove that it would strengthen the currency? Is this more "greenspan" talk which serves to keep people confused about what this whole effort actually means with regard to currency and gold backing? OR, am I missing something key and completely misunderstanding how this works?
Abandon all logic and imagine this scenario: if the measure had passed, the CHF would have been backed by 20% gold (it was as much as 40% in the recent past, and Switzerland prospered, but never mind.) Now go back to the key part of that quotation: "if the euro crisis doesn't get worse." Ha! What happens when it does? Once again, Euro holders would want to get out of euros and into CHF, now even stronger because of the 20% backing. And that would bring us back to where we were in the 2006-2008 crisis, with the SNB going full retard and driving the SNB balance sheet from 21% of GDP before the crisis to 84% today. http://books.google.com/books?id=c6YF9oNsy0kC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=snb+bala... ) In this scenario, the actions of the SNB might contain the CHF advance, at least temporarily, but only at the cost of destroying their balance sheet and losing "market confidence," and that would hurt Switzerland and the swissie.
Nowadays, winners and losers are determined by central banks, not markets. Stupendous misallocations of capital and market distortions result, all to make sure that large corporate exporters are the winners. The little guy loses because the increased purchasing power he/she should have enjoyed from cheaper imports is cleverly stolen.
Sheep will be sheared.
LOL Yeah right, like Rothschild will allow people to just "have their money back."
Ha ha, prank's on you if you thought criminals will let you have your shit back!
LOL
Not surprised at all. Would you expect anything different from a country whose people totally depend on the fiat banking industry? It's the natural course of history. The enterprising gold hoarding once third world (China, Russia, India) countries will soon emerge as the first and the once first world fiat banking countries will slowly fade into the third world after a few more banking crises. That's why Carlos Slim only hires lawyers now that speak Chinese, Spanish and English.
you know there's no hope when even the Swiss can't be relied on...
Sheeple !
Where there is no hope there's lots of opportunity to shear the herd of fiat banking sheeple.
Only 22% vote for? What happened to all the poll results? There were a bunch of people on here with a bunch of Swiss friends and family who were all voting for the referendum. What happened?
I guess we only heard from the pro-votes, not the ones who went no.
Kinda like if we did a poll for Ron Paul here on ZH in 2012, you'd think he would be the next prez.
Sample bias, bitchez!
Even though most Swiss here were for the gold initiative - most of the Swiss here said the it would most likely fail. But people tend to only "hear" what they want to...
It's not the vote that counts. It's the people that count the vote that count.
Greatbeard
It's not who votes but who counts the votes that matters. Did they use Diebolt machines today?
BTW, where is Ghordo to tell us this was the correct and proper outcome today?
B
Polls are simply a ploy to manage expectations.
Swiss dumb fucks.
You had a chance and you blew it.
Now feel the NWO suck u dry.
Bye bye gold price
fine...
now the Swiss can join the ranks of the clueless pussified slaves of the MoneyChangers...
fucking morons.
If you vote for this, we're going to consider negative interest rates on reserves (stealing from you)
insane is the new sane
Hmm..
It is 4:00 pm in Zurich.
Think the polls are closed yet?
There is some confusion. Was the vote Sat or today, Sun?
Saturday *and* Sunday. Polls closed at 12:00 or 12:30 today, don't remember.
Although it was the result I forecasted, I'm more than depressed, I must say. The awakening will be painful, especially for the next generations.
In case of interest : you can see the detail of the vote at http://www.teletext.ch/RTSUn/111.
We were finished counting and certifying ballots (750 by post and 150 manually placed in the ballot box) at 11:30 this morning.
(We're early risers and efficient workers).
I mean really, who the hell would want their gold 'in hand'?
I would rather have the gold in MY hands, than in "my" central bank' s hands...
(I may be a shareholder in the SNB, but that doesn't mean I trust them any more than the next bunch of bankers)
Fuck the Germans, Fuck the Swiss, Fuck the French.
Go Dutch, get even more back.
I have little information on this; one thing I read was the referendum was sponsored by a smaller Swiss party most Swiss do not vote for ,ie, unpopular party.
But, it is surprising the referendum went this bad.
We have not had any god reporting on the ground on the backstory. I wish I read German.
I wonder what the turnout % was also.
Even more tragic is the fact that the Swiss voted down a referendum to put limitations on emigration. A little less than subtle arm twisting by the EU no doubt.
They also voted down pauschalbesteuerung.....whatever that is. tragedy .
Flat tax on non-nationals ~= pauschalbesteuerung
Yes, triple tragedy.
Seems same man counted voices as in Scotland
One wonders whether the Civil War could have been avoided by simply putting freedom to a vote among the slaves. Seems they would have voted to continue slavery by a landslide, and there would have been no response the North could have come up with that didn't negate democracy as a system.
Guess Vlad , the Chinese and the Indians will be filling their boots on the huge markdown tomorrow....
Buy when there's blood on the streets.....
..even if it is your own.
Ah at last, we shall soon see the end of a money laundering country.
One that has laundered money since the crusades.
The Swiss have managed to commit harakiri
More cheap gold for smart individuals (and Putin) to buy!
its smart to get poorer day by day
Oh, you must be speaking of the USD's 95% decline in value over the last century.
Wouldn't have guessed you were that old. In the pic you don't look a day over 90 (though the old man glasses might hide a multitude of sins). And it has to suck if you haven't gotten a raise since 1913. Heck, even the fry cooks at McDs earn a higher nominal wage than the Secretary of the Treasury did in 1913, which certainly helps cushion the blow.
The worst part is that if your wage had been adjusted to at least the median, gold would be more accessible to you today than at any time since Oldavai. There weren't too many stackers in 1870, 1600, 1300 or 732 at Tours. As blasphemous as it might be to say it, that suggests gold has lost pricing power over time, too, but unlike wages, it doesn't get adjusted.
Looks like there is flood of trolls here.
Every reason to buy gold and silver. When even the generally conservative Swiss are Pavloved into the NY/London dark fiat money scheme Westerners are simply totally doomed.
Part of the final capitulation
Swiss Referendum over. Now the race to the bottom against Oil can continue... Which of black Gold or Shining Gold trade single digit first ?
China, Russia and India will be ecstatic
Voting by DieBold!...
Living in a Paul Krugman' World!!!
hopeless, fucking hopeless; checking out for a while as this shit is depressing
they win as they control fear with fear...they are firmly in power
tptb are at all pivotal power positions.
control money
control courts
control law
control media
control education
control vilence(police and military)
control markets via fiat debt creation
control food supply
control every fucking thing imaginable(at least they try)
teacher leave the kids alone
and we give them this control...
fucking hopeless.
find your own reality.
turn off
tune out
observe, self reflect
revolt at personel level
(doesn't mean i gave up - though, sigh, ha...)
The Swiss elect to continue supporting the EU-US bankster elite.
"In 1999, Switzerland became the last industrial nation to go off the gold standard, a system that had served the world well for centuries. At that time, the Swiss National Bank held about 2,600 tons of gold, representing about 41% of its total currency reserves. By the end of 2008 its gold holdings had dwindled to just 21% of reserves. And as of August this year, they had fallen to just 7.9%. The raw tonnage has fallen over that time to just 1,040 tons, a 60% decline from 1999.
But the real action can be seen in the Swiss National Bank's holding of foreign currencies, mostly the euro, which now sits at a whopping 453 billion francs' ($495 billion). That's about 56,000 francs ($61,000) per man, woman and child in the country, almost 90% of which have been accumulated in just the past six years. The stated aim of all these purchases is to depress the value of the franc against the euro. Currency valuation directly translates into purchasing power, which means that the Swiss are poorer for these efforts. For a family of four that means the Swiss government has diverted almost $33,000 worth of purchasing power every year for the past six years to citizens of other European countries who had mistakenly adopted the euro."
- Peter Schiff
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff112514.html
Wake me up when gold is $950 and silver is $10.
You may never wake up. Some people just sleep deeply.
Not only no, but no in a landslide. SMH. The Chinese, Russians and Indians are howling with laughter.
Did you think TPTB was going to allow a real vote on this?
Elections - Referendums Votes
Stand aside and be counted in real terms
Else the Rothschilds and their ilk will bilk you of everything.
Look I hate to be the heavy, but...voting is rigged for fuck's sake.
Do you really think they'll allow you to have your gold back...because of a fucking vote?
Voting. Is. Rigged.
It's all fake.
Of course it is rigged, almost 80% against.....
Yep, and to prevent any silly talk of a recount they made sure it went down in flames at 78%. Voting is just for show. Democracy is truly dead.
I like my Gold just as much today as last month. What changed?
Gold Bitchez....I pick up pennies
If 22% of the world bought Gold, there would be none for sale within 10 minutes of stores opening. Glass half full.
You stupid, if you bought gold and the price was high enough, youd sell it back.... cause all you REALLY want, is not more GOLD, but more $$$$ to buy that Ferrari, that house , etc... that you will never have anyway, its not for losers like you
Your trolling is usually good. This one was a complete let down.
You're a scumbag and you almost sound like MA
<1100$ tomorrow for gold.
Race to the bottom !
<$15 for silver!
Not tomorrow, but this week likely, yeah.
I just hope Jordan get's his balls ripped off when the Swiss realise they were duped.
Everyone here predicted it, except the dreamers.
Zerohedgers ahead of the curve.
If you want our gold, you can keep our gold !
But the Dutch are now still able to get some more WWII stolen gold back from the Swiss.
AU & AG fall further next week and,
If you listen closely, you can hear the reverse gear in trucks ALL over the world.
In Russia, China and India too-!!!
Did you hear that thunderous cheer going up in Asia?
In India it's more likely to be ox-carts, Maruti Suzuki Swifts or wood-framed cab semis. Seems all that gold didn't do a whole lot for them.
As for China, watch out for that SSE. It's on a 35% tear this year and finally starting to get the attention of the inveterate gamblers that are Chinese. With their RE now falling, and PMs slaughtering them since 2011, don't be surprised if the rush is now into equities. As for the CP, they are still near peak UST holdings.
Vlad might buy, but he's cashing out rubles that are down 57% this year. That might crimp his style.
Still, it may well be short term rally time, despite the Swiss vote. Gonna sit this one out.
Well.....We elected Obama twice....goes to show ya how stupid we are when it comes down to it
Elected?! Lol.... that's cute
Piss on the Swiss, in other words.
They are as Sheeple as the Scots and we Muricans
now you know why gold dumped more than -2.5% on friday.
at least the guys who got short on friday will provide some well needed bid tomorrow
not until $1000-1050, perhaps?
Fuckit. Lets take it down to $500 and coronate the motherfucker by sacrificing a school yard of orphans with hungry, rabid dogs on live TeeVee.
in this game since 2003.
actually beginning to seriously ponder the end of the gold bull market. but, let's see how support holds.
besides, there are much bigger crises on the horizon that we have to face, and gold doesn't offer any sanctuary or solution to them.
Amen to that. Like pm's and all, but this is just getting fucking stupid.
I prefer Gold to drop to $20 and Silver to drop to 25 Cents.. I can buy a lot at that price.
I predict lots more boating accidents on the lakes of Murica
And lots more nail gun accidents too, among unfortunate bankster spawn
Amazing! Sometime wonder if we are all Lemmings going over a cliff. But then I realize that it means that those of us that are awake just have to shine a little brighter against the darkness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5-BNFKkz9M&index=5&list=UUc1tiOnWkOYWqj...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITv0jCsMm1s
If true, this would be the most amazing referendum outcome of all time.
Good on the Swiss! It was a well-meaning initiative, but brainlessly executed, and the Swiss are much better off for voting No. Explicitly forbidding any gold sales is the same as turning all your gold into rocks. It becomes completely worthless. Lick your wounds, ye Swiss goldbugs, and then come back with a much better plan for the Swiss people to vote on.
Now lets hope the gold price takes a real plunge tomorrow. That is the quickest route to the reset. If the Swiss had voted Yes, it would only have propped up the current system a bit longer by raising the price of gold. So it would not only have been bad for the Swiss, but for all of us.
The point of forbidding gold sales is that it takes the power out of the CB's hands. What point is there in not setting a floor if the next day the CB simply says its "Necessary" to sell it all? Personally, I think the 20% should have been taken out of the control of the CB, then they could have a floor of 0 if they wanted to... hell they could even short it.
There are BETTER ways of achieving that objective.
Such as?
See above: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-30/swiss-gold-referendum-fails-78-...
The referendum didn't actually return gold backing to the CHF, or even introduce a stable fixed rate backing, it introduced a minimum variable rate backing and left the price stability mandate unchanged - which would have counter-productively forced the SNB to print MOAR in a vicious cycle.
That's an excellent idea. Like I said, take the gold OUT of the hands of the CB.
Not a good day to be Roger Federer. This will be bullish gold long term.
Swiss Gold Referendum:
Voters reject plan to force Switzerland to stockpile…
latest:
http://tersee.com/#!q=swiss+gold&t=text
I read the same story 2 hours ago. It is still afternoon in Europe so unless the Swiss close their voting at 12:00 sharp and have 100,000 of Cuckoos counting the votes i would say this is a Psy Op Propaganda to convice the late voters to go with the flow.
This a corrupt exit poll finding. Unless the mass druged the Swiss.
A large proportion of Swiss have been voting all month, by post. Most counts are quite small so over quickly.
The referendum, as written, was doomed to fail. The prohibition from ever selling gold was the killer. If something cannot evr be sold, it loses its transactional value. In other words, it is no longer effective as a "reserve" which could be drawn down in times of expediency and/or emergency.
They can have another votr to sell it in the future to be some SDR/Deutch marks as the dollar/euro would be dead.
CheesePopes win again....
They want to buy more gold for themselves at a lower price instead of letting the banksters have it. Nothing wrong with that.
Western fiat currency has only one path. It will not be allowed to be saved by gold.
This would have appeared as a no brainer to an intelligent informed population... but apparently the Swiss have been dumbed down like most of the planet. I remember the big hubablu when they first dropped gold a few years ago. Now this same used to be proud people are looking for the $1740 per month 'free basic income guarantee'. Nothing more than a gaggle of parasites but smart enough to know it can't work with a gold standard,,, exactly why this fantasy was released last month ahead of this referendumb. It worked!
I'm sure the results would be the same in the ussa as a gold based system would require more responsibility from everyone and responsibility is a four letter word these days. People are savvy enought to know all the freebies cannot continue unless the banksters continue printing. Everybody is scamming these days including We the People in a concerted effort to put off responsible behavior as long as possible.
Judgement day is coming and there is nothing we can do other than put it off for awhile. Soon we will hear these same irresponsible people crying about the increased prices and reduced opportunities. They will forget the chances they had to put things right again.
Isn't it amazing what humans will do, and more, what they will give up in order to be spoon fed and diapered from birth to death.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/11/27/switzerland-basic-income-guarante...
A tonne of gold in the hand is worth 2 tonnes of gold at the Fed.
I think you're grossly underestimating how leveraged up paper gold is
It was for the sake of expression. The gold leverage is monumental; bank held bars sold to moultiple leasees, gold ETFs with empty vaults, Central Banks with empty vaults, gold sold on exchanges (COMEX, LBMA) with no thought of delivery, all this and then we could start talking about leveraged derivatives....
I know. Mine too.
Switzerland is a videocracy, not a democracy.
They were happily voting for their own demise.
This is not a surprise to any of us here. The results were known long before this morning. You think gold, silver tanked because of the carnage in oil pricing. Have you noticed that not one commentator talked about the lower costs for producing gold, silver if oil stays at these levels and the increased profit margin for the miners. Have you seen any articles about the lower profits coming for our multitude of international companies due to the strength of the useless dollar. Nope, not one. Just carry on with deficits, higher stock prices and buy backs. We all know how this will end, we just do not know when.
Picked up more miners on Friday and will again Monday as I think we will open a lot lower and maybe the lows will be in on Monday. I just stand in disbelief at how clueless most Americans are about what is transpiring in this country. And the Swiss, who I thought were much more aware of this deceit by all governments are just as stupid as US>.
So, exactly how long until until it all burns down? I think we have a year max.
I think I heard the same forecast in 2009. I will probably hear it again in 2020, if I haven't blown my brains out by then.
Goldman's $1060 target likely to be hit in a few days or weeks. We could be seeing in the new year with sub-$1000 gold. $ index likely to hit 90+ by New Year's Day. S&P to new record highs. Is this the bottom or do we continue on down? $900? $800? $500? $100? Down, down, down even as CB's print, print, print.
You'd like that wouldn't you....
Reality doesn't care about what we like or don't like, as the last few years have shown us.
So basically you are a complicit trader who is playing the slave card and in actuality help it along by becoming invested in our collective demise. Hope you do well and get to pick out a nice cell better than the rest of us.
Nope. Just another hapless and jaded member of ZH. Disillusioned nad going down with the ship like the rest of us here.
So jaded you almost cheer our demise....gotcha.
BTW, I don't junk, I engage.
Yep. I'm passed the point of depression and now verging on insanity. Its much nicer here.
Cheering the demise of corruption is a good thing IR. There is no saving it. I celebrate the destruction of dishonesty, fraud, and corruption.
Yes I cheer it on.
Gold at $20. Yeah!
Gold/Silver = Limit down
No trading limits on Crimex gold. Let's see if the algos drive the price to zero tomorrow.
and the slaughter begins
Wonder if those who shorted gold ( knowing from inside info) that refernendum would not pass will suddenly flood the market tomorrow to buy physical, and then ooops, suddenly the price rebounds?
Put another way, were shorts dumped on the market in order to drve the price of gold down ahead of the referndum vote? What if suddenly the tipping point has been reached and they want delivery?
(Just finished listening to Harvey Organ interview about the COMEX needle running on empty.)
This stuff is too screwed up to be real.
My thoughts exactly Hubbs. "IF" tptb were behind the rampant shorting in order to assist with this vote then we should see a rebound. "IF" the shorting was a result of real market forces then the price could go either way and may still trend down. That being said, not sure how the price stays down here "IF" the physical offtake is anywhere near what is being reported by alternative news sources? It just doesn't make sense?
I think the gold market is so opaque that it is impossible for us commoners to get a good read on it. They (gov't,etc) have fudged every indicator so badly that we are essentially "flying blind" without any instrumentation to rely upon. It could be that the alternative news sites are relying on bad data as well, so it's really impossible to know if we are being played or are seeing something that gives us a leg up on the averagel joe that is unaware of the gold rigging (assuming it's being rigged)?
As I've stated before, I've seen enough gov't interference and lies to know that something is wrong. I've watched various markets do things that should not have occurred and without explanation. I just do not have any faith in anything the gov't says or does. I don't have faith in the dollar or any other currency. I don't really have any faith that gold/silver aren't manipulated as I think that they are. I just have to believe that eventually this corrupt monetary system will fail and/or the printing of trillions of dollars will result in a massive devaluation. I'm mentally OK with holding a lot of my wealth in metals but I will admit to being increasingly unsure of what is really going on. It appears that logic may not be the best way to game what these crazy fuckers are up too. At this point, it's a grudge match for me, I'm not selling my gold/silver and don't give a fuck what the price does.
To speak ill of gold is to speak ill of 5,000 years of collective human wisdom. Despite all machinations that ridicule gold, I would say the 5,000 year old trend is your friend... Creating money out of thin air [our fractional-reserve banking system] and receiving sustenance for doing/contributing nothing [the FSA] are not sustainable trends...
Didn't you read the Citi article from last week? Gold is in a 6000-yr bubble and its about to burst. CBs know more than 6000 years of human history does, apparently.
Yep, just like crude oil is in a 150 year bubble and it's about to burst!
At least you can always head to the nearest cemetary if you need to sell, since that's where most of the believers are.
A good deal of that "collective human wisdom" was convinced the Earth was flat, and that diseases were caused by spirits and best cured by bloodletting. Beliefs change.
Any asset can have its day, but the trick is to match your blink of an eye above ground to what the common faith is while you are there.
Gold to explode to the upside. Nothing left to short for the thugs, only take profits.
/sarc
but maybe not.
I'm going to boycott Swiss cheese in protest.
Let's call it Liberty cheese.......and Freedom Fries.
The Russians are buying Swiss cheese with moar fervor than they are buying gold...
And if the referendum had passed - you would be able to afford Swiss cheese anymore, unless you were willing to part with your gold.
Stuff's a ripoff anyway with all those holes in it.
Maybe now they'll vote yes to the 2,600 CHF living wage!
A chicken in every pot and a shackle on every ankle!!!!!