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Russia Says It Has Evidence From Ukraine Military Defector Kiev Was Responsible For MH-17 Crash
Back in July it was all everyone could talk about: who shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH-17 flying over east Ukraine? A hurriedly-prepared official report (by Western authorities) quickly put the blame on Russia, ignoring any suggestion the downing may have been the result of a Ukraine fighter jet, and said the catastrophe was the result of a Russian-made missile shot by Russian separatists. Then the story promptly disappeared. Russia, however, continued digging, and overnight, Russia’s Investigative Committee says it has uncovered evidence Ukraine was involved in the crash citing a military defector from the Ukraine.
The RIC said, as summarized by Bloomberg, that it interrogated a Ukraine military defector who has evidence the Boeing jet shot down in July may have been targeted by Ukrainian military SU-25 plane, according to website statement. The witness claims to have spoken to SU-25’s pilot, according to whom the SU-25 in question was carrying R-60 air-to-air missiles. The SU-25 returned to base after flight without its missiles. The pilot summarized that "MH-17 was in wrong place at wrong time." Tell that to the families of over two hundred innocent casualties of war.
The Committee statement adds that Russia may provide witness state protection and that Russian investigators ready to share data with international crash investigators.
Some further details in AFP's coverage of the topic: "The witness, who was not named, worked at an airfield in the Ukrainian city of Dnipropetrovsk where he claimed to have seen a warplane take off on July 17 with air-to-air missiles and return without them. An Investigative Committee statement said the testimony of the man "is important proof that Ukrainian military was implicated in the crash of the Boeing-777".
The statement by investigators came the same day that Kiev and the separatists were to hold a new round of ceasefire talks, and shortly after Russian tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda published an interview with the "secret witness" who said he worked at the airport on the day the Boeing 777 was downed.
The man, who was filmed by the newspaper with his back to the camera and even the back of his head blurred, said he saw a Sukhoi-25 jet take off armed with air-to-air rockets and return to the base without them.
"[The plane's operator] could have launched them into the Boeing out of fear or revenge," the witness said, identifying the pilot of the jet as having the surname Voloshin. "Maybe he mistook it for another plane."
Komsomolskaya Pravda claimed the witness showed up at its office by himself and that his identity checks out, but did not identify him because his family is still in Ukraine.
The investigative committee said the man — who was now officially a witness — could be enrolled in a witness protection program.
Here is the full statement from the Investigative Committee, google translated:
Investigators last night they were able to meet with the Ukrainian military defector, who confirms that voluntarily left the military unit and moved into the territory of the Russian Federation.
He told investigators about the last days of service in one of the units of the Air Force of Ukraine. From the way he behaved, what facts the voice, the investigators did not have doubts in sincerity and awareness of the witness of the events that took place in the military unit.
From the testimony of the witness now, that in order to ensure its safety aliased, civil aircraft "Boeing 777" Flight MH-17 could be brought down by July 17 of this year, combat aircraft SU-25 Ukrainian Air Force, piloted by Captain Ukrainian Air Force pilot Voloshin. In this case, sortie was carried from the airport, stationed near the city of Dnipropetrovsk. it is at this airfield served as a witness. According to his testimony, he personally saw the plane before takeoff Voloshin was fused rockets "air-to-air" type R-60, which in normal conditions the implementation of sorties Su-25 do not fit. As the witness said, in a similar outfit aircraft simply was not necessary, as the representatives of the people's militia armed with no aviation.
The witness immediately noticed that on his return to the airfield aircraft missiles in the equipment of the aircraft has no, and then he distinctly heard the words of the pilot Voloshin, said one of his colleagues: "He - the plane - was not at the time and in the wrong place."
Those facts and information, which are located and which are clearly not being confused, the witness said, convince investigators that his testimony true, by the way, and confirmed research on polygraph. For the investigation of these readings are very important, and most importantly, that they coincide with the data that were available for investigators from other sources and confirm the fact of being in the air Ukrainian Su-25 during the crash "Boeing." In particular, from the testimony of several witnesses - Ukrainian citizens living in the area of impact "Boeing 777", it follows that shortly before the crash they saw in the sky in the vicinity of the passenger liner military aircraft.
Thus, the testimony of a witness are not the only one, but a very important proof that a collapse of the "Boeing" Ukrainian armed forces are involved.
As a witness may be in danger, the investigation decides whether to grant him state protection for the witness protection program.
Investigation Committee will be to continue to collect and analyze all the data about the crash. In this case, if the representatives of the international commission investigating the crash that actually interested in establishing the truth and turn to us, we are ready to provide all available materials.
The full interview that took place on Komsomolskaya Pravda with the alleged defector, along with supporting materials, can be found here. Sadly in the end this is just more verbal allegations and more "he said, she said" accusations, in what will almost surely remain an unresolved crash in which over 200 innocent people were the now deceased pawns in a lethal realpolitik game in which the cost of a human life is nothing.
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If it was a BUK explain why no one saw or photographed the launch or heard it. Also because the plane was flying at the limit of where a BUK could reach the area where the BUK could have been launched from is pretty narrowly defined as MH17 made a sharp turn when it was hit. Where it was hit is relatively accurately located being the intersection of the line of the wreckage and it's original course. (this is all covered in a paper linked from the Saker website compiled from publically available information) Explain why it was ordered to lower it's altitude by Kiev putting it within the ceiling of the SU-25 (and the BUK). Also explain why it was directed over the danger zone well North of it's normal course (of course if there were other civil flights in the same area and altitude then this point is moot). If it was hit by BUK explain the cause of bullet holes seen in the photos of the cockpit area. The BUK launch keys are held at the highest levels of seniority (you can't steal one, point it and press a button). It takes 17or so highly trained operators to work it and it has several vehicles including the radar (not something easily hidden).
What you need is some actual FACTS. They are widely available. All these questions of yours have been covered a million times over. If you're truly interested you could find out. I'll start you off for free:
The sharp turn was not caused by what angle the missile hit it from. The sharp turn happened from the fact that the left engine got hit, fan blades got broken and sucked into the engine, which stopped (as it is designed to). So the right side is being pushed forwards, the left one is not, obviously it turns to the left.
It does not take 17 highly trained people to operate a BUK. GET REAL. It i possible to link up 3 or 4 units with a command unit, have them share their radar results and be fired from the central post, yes. And a lot of other combinations. But each unit ALONE has its own radar and is fully capable of being used alone...need ONE person once the missiles are loaded.
MH17 was not ordered to lower altitude -- it was simply refused permission to go higher, because where it wanted to go was being used by AN ONCOMING PLANE...not good idea o share with.
Not one of people on ground saw BUK.
many witnesses testify ukraine aircraft
better you find and view videos of BUK launch, track and trail.
Explain why after seeing the first Russian photoshop job that bellingcat.com ripped to pieces we now see a new try at this. I know Russia has hired an army of trolls (hopefully at a better salary than the original of 2500 roubles) but give me a break. A scripted confession and maybe a better photoshop than the SU-25 that suddenly developed swept back wings over a 2012 Google map location at a Boeing that didn't have the "Malaysia" in the correct place on the fuselage. This guy saw it all. Yep And now with a new flat and a shiney BMW it all came back.
Why you? Not explain about the six satellites orbiting the right space at the right time not RELEASE all pictures were taken in intervals...
Bellingcat also has pictures and dates of the missle launcher in question in Ukraine being moved with a missing missle after that date. We have Putin zealots that have come to this website and are turning it into a bash west, love east mentaility. Don't get me wrong, Obama does his crap but only bash west when Putin's shit does stink as well only turns this website into a bash west site that loses any objectivity.
Ukrainian of that crew has come forward.
Old news.
Learn research before repeating old false from sources already proven liars.
You are easy.
Checked out bellingcat. I didn't see any "investigative" reporting about US actions throughout the world.
Nice propaganda site, though.
Who told you the photoshop job was "Russian?"
Eliot Higgins, who cherry-picks evidence from youtube and facebook, and doesn't speak Russian or Arabic?
The guy whose partner on the Ghoula massacre [almost certainly not done by Assad] was outed as a fraud by an MIT professor?
Come... come on, dude.
I do agree that in fairness one can not simply presume this alleged defector is reliable, either, but skepticism should go both ways.
bellingcat is bs site
proof of nothing is nothing
Petrodollar Warfare and Russia
Why would Ukraine's pilot shoot down a Boeing? He could not have done it by mistake because those separatists don't have aviation. False flag? Why would Ukraine authorities take such immense risks, basically risk everything if the truth is revealed? While separatists had shot down a lot of Ukraine planes in weeks preceeding the Boeing accident. The simplest explanation is that they shot it down by mistake having taken it for another Ukraine war plane. What's so difficut about this logic? :)
Why you? Not explain about the six satellites orbiting the right space at the right time not RELEASE all pictures were taken in intervals…
May be Watching this if you have time clarified everything in your Brain..
{http://bit.ly/1pMCQv5 }
To finish:
{http://bit.ly/1oaLi2B }
Saludos...
Agreed. The fact that the US gov tendered grainy images from a 3rd party satellite as proof, when even on its face it was proof of nothing at all, while failing to show anything from its own skynet - is fucking absurd. As is the unreleased control tower tapes, exclusion of Malaysia from the investigation ( !! ), and failure to release cockpit recordings.
Sometimes the lack of evidence which should be available, but is not, is the strongest evidence of all.
witness told the pilot returned was shook, said about event wrong plane
pilot mislead/mistaked about mission
I have from airforce source this is credible witness
witness now in Russia under heavy security
see the video that is circulating internet
Is it bad that I don't give a shit?
They are all liars. The passengers are still all dead. The war is coming. In the end they might as well have put Archduke Fuckface on the plane.
Down with Oceania.
Truth depends on ones personal standpoint, as is clearly shown by this example. There ain't no deeper truth than the lies we choose to believe in, folks ...
The people that died on that plane were the victim of geopolitical games and these games are continued being played over their dead bodies. The evidence of who done it is out there but is being played out.
I've been Russia's/Putin's biggest fan and tell everyone that he's the good guy, we are the bad guys(our leaders of course.) But come on man, I am about to chang Putin's name to PUSSin. When the fuck is he going to stand up and do something? If he continues to let NATO/Murica infiltrate and use Ukraine to destroy Russia, it's all over for Russia. How about take a stand and fucking do something bro? You ain't done fucking SHIT!!!!
The chess anallogy is a little hackneyed, but maybe the judo one is not.
Besides, he's already being blamed for shit he hasn't done - the western press and Washington's puppet regimes will all be convinced Putin is trying to recreate the USSR even if he merely stops neonazi militias, armed by the US, from bombing ethnic Russian civilians... notice how the US press went silent on all that?
Right now the US/NATO is the aggressor, and while they also largely control the narrative for those dependent on a largely corporate and neocon-managed media, the ascertainable truth of the matter is quite different.
Not attacking is not the same thing as not preparing.
De-dollarization proceeds apace.
I voted positive, because of the last phrase was a Killer, at least for me.
Saludos and Happy Christmas…
You need to pay more attention
Putin is patient -i.e.-working with the Chinese and BRICS to replace dollar hegemony -he will likely get the past laugh -unless the crazies in the shadow government who really run things decide to nuke Russia out of desparation. Putin will be attending Chritian Orthodox services on Chritmas Eve while Obama is out kissing the Mennorah on the white house lawn while calling Bibi to wish him a happy Hannakah - again.
Putin is running a marathon, not a sprint. Bombing things is for Hollywood and the Pentagon.
"The Russians are slow to saddle their horses, but ride fast"
-Otto Von Bismarck-
At this point, what difference does it make.
~Hillary Clinton
Does everyone remember 2008?
Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili eats his tie
Classic video!
Yup, one for the files. The propaganda war sounds like 2008, too.
I wonder if Poroshenko likes ties.
Anyway - I think there's some good evidence Kiev shot the plane down, but there's certainly no smoking gun.
I think of this differently - some of you are no doubt with me though.... the press, the president, congress with its bullshit resolution - all accused Russia, i.e. Putin - of having shot the plane down.
It is absolutely, positively clear that they all did so with nothing even approaching proof of their claim. That suggest propaganda, and that, in turn, suggests a false flag.
For goodness sake, we had the attempted false flag in Syria [See Seymour Hersh's "who's Sarin" and "The Rat line"], we have US allies supporting ISIS, we had a bullshit excuse to intervene in Libya, we had Jewish neocons in the OSP in the Pentagon fabricating intel to lie us into an Iraq war so long desired by the Jewish neocons, we had the laptop of death and that absurd plot to kill the Saudi ambassador, we had the fake movie the Benghazi assault was blamed on, no doubt cooked up as a cover for the attack on the CIA gun running facility.... the Lavon Affair, USS Liberty, both efforts to kill British and/or Americans and blame Egypt, we have dancing Israeli spies on 9/11 talking gibberish about Palestinians..
I mean, even if you think the Eastern Ukrainian separatists, novorussyns shot it down, how could you possibly claim that there is dispositive evidence of that notion, and how could you not concede that another "false flag" is not only possible but probable?
War would come before even a hint of admission from the U.S./Kiev regime of culpability in this act. Anything that implied, with credible evidence, that the U.S. was in any way, shape or form, involved this incident, would basically seal the fate of the U.S. for good. Trade relations or cooperation on any level would, for all intents & purposes, cease. The U.S. would be forced to either impose its will militarily, or implode economically. Dissolution of U.S. government would rapidly follow, with all the ensuing chaos that goes along with such an event.
This is small potatoes compared to the dramatic nosedive JFK Jr's plane took into the Atlantic.
You've never seen bullshit deeper than this:
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Legacy-II-John-Kennedy/dp/B00JRZ14UO/perhaps the pilot thought he was shooting down Putin's IL-96, although my understanding is his plane would not have been over Ukrainian airspace... so that seems doubtful. I imagine it was accidental, and immediately seized upon as a chance to Orwellize the event and blame Putin, or was deliberately done to do so ab initio.
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/malaysia-airlines-...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/Aeroflot_Il-96-300_R...
As it was yesterday, and will be tomorros, the more I understand, the less I know.
'Forget it, freres. It's Chinatown.'
More confusion fodder. Like JFK, 9/11 everything's a conspiracy theory now. Sadly few will pay attention.
Ukraine is a psy-op
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Russia’s Imperious Group Invests in Ukranian Startup
Ukraine To Import Electricity From Russia
Foreign Bankers Rape Ukraine
Ukraine Supplies Helicopter Engines to Russia On Schedule
Russia Signed Nuclear Agreements With….Ukraine
Psy-op? Hardly...it's a cross between a circle-jerk and a cluster-fuck!
Don't trust Putinski. He's a crypto-zionist, a pied piper that will sacrifice his own country. He has gone to the Unholy land, visited the holohoax museum in Israhell and paid homage to Nutteryahoo. Odious p.erfidity worse than Beria and Stalin
nonsense. I wonder if you actually believe it. He is a politician, in a country with dozens of wealthy dual citizens, and Russia, as it should, has diplomatic ties with an Israel that has around 900k Russian immigrants... not all of them actually "Jewish," by the way.
Worse than Beria and Stalin? Now, you're just being obtuse.
useless talkings
Why do I get the distinct impression that Zero Hedge is pro Russian? I wasn't sure but this is an article by Tyler. Odd for a U.S. based web site. It's good to keep an open mind and it's possible they're right about this airliner. But Zero Hedge seems pro Russian.
They are no more pro-russian than I am. The Tylers are just tired of DC's bullsh!t. I don't blame them. 97% of what DC tells us is a lie. Weapons of Mass Destruction? Unemployment figures? Inflation less than 2%? Slipping in a $300 Trillion bill for derivatives on the taxpayer's already overburdened backs? You can keep your doctor? We tortured some folks? Hillary vs Jeb Bush in 2016? Guns 'R' Us to Mexican drug cartels? Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran? This is a madhouse!
This country that I dearly love has gone right down the toilet.
ZH is pro-Truth. How many false flags and lies do we have to be subjected to from the criminals who run the government, media and Wall Street before some of you will quit blindly cheerleading for the bad guys? We are an occupied nation that needs to be freed from the tyranny of those who seek to enslave us -just as they seek to enslave Russia -if they don't destroy her first. The evidence I have seen strongly suggests that the Ukranian minions of the US, who were installed after a blatant coup though out a democratically elected government (corrupt though it was) were responsible for redirecting and then shooting down that plane, so it could be blamed on Putin and the Russian Ukranians.
One doesn't need to be pro-Russian to wonder why, after examining the black boxes and saying they were not tampered with, the Dutch never releaed the recordings.
ZH on right side of history.
I'm not cheerleading for Vlad, but this whole mess stinks to high heaven. I know in my heart that Mordor on the Potomac is lying, and I'm sure that Russia is also playing the propaganda game (and much better than DC). This is like watching two nuclear powered little kids in a pissing contest. The bad part is that they are going take all of us down with them. Freaking idiots!
So when does evidence matter? If you believed in the evidence, you'd have to conclude 911 was an inside job. Only nuts are concerned about evidence. Nobody cares about the evidence anymore. Why does ZH waste our time with such stories?
This won't be allowed to be true.
Where is the Spanish air traffic controller who was tweeting live as the event took place that the Ukrainian fighter was taking down the airliner and describing how minutes later the Ukrainian security forces came into the control center and confiscated all rellevant records? He and his familly seem to be missing.
We disappeared some folks.
And bubonic plague, and the Fukushima tsunami, and.... Consider the source.
Its more plausable that it was a) an accident or b) they duped some pilot into shooting a target that he didnt know was civil and they did, than anything else i have heard so far.
The Dutch, said CANNON fire...hope the Russian Ukranians kill those Nazis bitches...
I really don't undestand the blame that Russia is responsible simply because the alleged misslie was made in Russia, if that is how the world works now then all those millions killed over the last 10 years with US weapons and ISIS with its US vehicles and weapons are all the United States fault.
So the US is responsible for millions of deaths, I guess Obama will resign now.