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"We Are Extremely Over-Retailed" Picturing The Death Of America's Malls
Starting in the mid-1990s, "the mall genie was out of the bottle," says one mall analyst, "and it was never going to come back." While about 80% of the country’s 1,200 malls are considered healthy (vacancy rates of 10% or less), that compares with 94% in 2006; and more than 30 million square feet of malls are more than 40% empty, a threshold that signals the beginning of what one one analyst called "the death spiral."
As The NY Times reports, like beached whales, dead malls draw fascination as well as dismay, "nobody ever thinks a mall is going to up and die," but as the following images show - dead or dying they are.
“It’s depressing,” Jill Kalata, 46, said as she tried on a few of the last sneakers for sale at the Athlete’s Foot, scheduled to close in a few weeks. “This place used to be packed. And Christmas, the lines were out the door. Now I’m surprised anything is still open.”
“I have no doubt some malls will survive, but major segments of our society have gotten sick of them,” said Mark Hinshaw, a Seattle architect, urban planner and author.
“It is very much a haves and have-nots situation,” said D. J. Busch, a senior analyst at Green Street. Affluent Americans “will keep going to Short Hills Mall in New Jersey or other properties aimed at the top 5 or 10 percent of consumers. But there’s been very little income growth in the belly of the economy.”
“We are extremely over-retailed,” said Christopher Zahas, a real estate economist and urban planner in Portland, Ore. “Filling a million square feet is a tall order.”
“Everybody has memories from childhood of going to the mall,” said Jack Thomas, 26, one of three partners who run the site in their spare time. “Nobody ever thinks a mall is going to up and die.”
Nearly 15 percent are 10 to 40 percent vacant, up from 5 percent in 2006. And 3.4 percent — representing more than 30 million square feet — are more than 40 percent empty, a threshold that signals the beginning of what Mr. Busch of Green Street calls “the death spiral.”
Industry executives freely admit that the mall business has undergone a profound bifurcation since the recession.
“Our business is more regional and high-end focused,” he said. “There are gradients of dead or dying or flat, but anything that’s caught in the middle of the market is problematic."
“The mall genie was out of the bottle,” Mr. Simmons said, “and it was never going to come back.”
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AMZNification killed the mall genie
Yes and no. Malls are inconvenient. Lots of aimless walking around, which is fine for bored teenagers and lazy housewives.
They also lost out to the big box stores where selection and price points are more predictable.
Does that mean I can finally skateboard inside the mall?
Yes you can, but due to anti-terrorist concern, taking picture is still not allowed.
That's funny, I'm 52 and still take the Santacruz out for a spin in the evenings all over the halls of the old mill where my shop is currently located.
Full Tracker trucks, Road Rider 6's Rad pads and all. I had to take the Sky hooks off, last time I used those on this rig was about 1985 or so.
@wesson: Math question:
If four duhmystik terrizz teenager skateboarders filmed three tricks in an abandoned mall with zero people around to give a hoot in a two-mile radius, what was the increase in the rate of donut consumption (donuts/hr) of the local PD that day?
@Duc888: I remember you mentioned your setup some time back - oldskool and rugged! Glad to see you still ride - it's one of the few remaining treats left for concrete dwellers. The act itself remains pure, though the 'industry' has been compromised by big players (Nike, Adidas, et al.). Skate gear will be highly valuable post-SHTF, in my opinion. Good stuff to stack up on.
Hey SB, didja geddit?
I did ORI, I'll get in touch soon.
Tell me about it.
UNDRILLED 32 inch Santa Cruz deck on EBAY sold for $810.00 For a piece of fucking wood.
I've seen RMI cut out decks sell upwards of $400 for a piece of oak.
I missed a bid on NOS "REAL" Road Rider 6's....they sold for $125 a pop. Kinda tough to shell out $500.00 for four pieces of urethane (no bearings).
Ouch.
I tell ya, Old synths, even up into the MID 1980's (if ya know what you're looking at) and REAL (not fake) NOS Skateboard stuff from the mid 70's to mid 80's is where it's at, investment wise.
If you mind getting shot 19 times by the private security, 'who thought they saw something shiny in your hand:".
At least the homeless will have somewhere to squat when they cant pay the mortgage.
Some of the small malls are becoming churches around DC metro area.
Can’t imagine around the nation.
Movie theater just moved to a bigger better location in a brand new outdoor mall. Old building is now one of those Church-in-a-Box places. Hope they kept the cushy seats.
Hmmm...
ARNHEM, Netherlands—Two dozen scruffy skateboarders launched perilous jumps in a soaring old church building here on a recent night, watched over by a mosaic likeness of Jesus and a solemn array of stone saints.
This is the Arnhem Skate Hall, an uneasy reincarnation of the Church of St. Joseph, which once rang with the prayers of nearly 1,000 worshipers.
It is one of hundreds of churches, closed or threatened by plunging membership, that pose a question for communities, and even governments, across Western Europe: What to do with once-holy, now-empty buildings that increasingly mark the countryside from Britain to Denmark?
...the Roman Catholic Church, which still owns the building, is trying to sell it at a price they can’t afford.
Can I get an Amen!?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-empty-churches-go-on-sale-1420245359Nice 'burb of De'toilet and we've had churches in strip malls for at least a decade.
Don't doubt how far we have already fallen. I drive all over this state and the loss and devastation is heart-wrenching.
Government connected, unions, doing ok and spending. Some little guys trying to keep ahead by spending. Most are wondering how in the hell they can pay their cell phone and heating bills next month. Welfare/very low income momma's doing pretty well, spending baby daddy's/boyfriends checks right along side their EBT card at the Walmart, or local liquor store if they are true ghetto residents.
The minute the giant Ponzi in Washington and New York falters, we in the middle are going to go tits up fast. Faster than most can imagine.
Peace to you
yet iyr hits new highs every day
Tick tock
Welcome to the new tenament style housing. 30 bunk beds per store and many stores per mall. Many malls per city and just like that, two near future problems have been solved! Rental rates will probably even go up.
Many suburbs have turned to slums with few solid consumers actually shopping. Teens and thugs hang out there now. This has been happening for awhile now:
"It's been apparent for a number of years now that—due to widespread demographic and economic trends—the suburbs, once the idyllic home to upper middle class members and aspirants, are becoming the new slums. How's that trend developing? Just fine, thank you."
http://gawker.com/5853251/the-suburban-slum-era-has-arrived
You bring up a good point.
Violent change is at hand.
Small children will make a game out of crushing teeth searching for rare dental gold.
Another reason to stay home and shop online:
Our local mall doesn't allow concealed carry. Fuck 'em.
Exactly; whereas my home office and computer desk, do allow open carry; no contest.
I never have gone to malls and the wife won't go anymore because the little obama thugsters hang out there looking for trouble. Forward
Oh ffs just say niggerz and be done w it. EMBRACE the hood, dipshet.
Obama shopping malls, with lots of something for nothing Obama promises. The problem is that america is running out of young white people to pay for stuff and support welfare.
The fellows pushing their book today on NPR said there's a new 'white flight' happening; namely, whites movng back to the city for good paying jobs while they leave the multicultural suburbs behind.
I know at least two malls in the 'robust growth' area of Austin that have shut down due to soaring crime in them when I lived there a while back. I knew there was trouble when the police started to ride horses around the mall for fear of diverse peeples' riots. From what I read it's only gotten worse there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Mall
Finally, someone mentions the substantial black contribution to the malaise. Randall Mall, the biggest mall in the world when it was constructed near Cleveland in 1976, just officially closed. But even in the 80's, you knew never to use the bathrooms there because they were gang infested, and most of my friends stopped going there in the mid-80's when one of them got stabbed because he wouldn't move out of the way for some black teens. The blacks killed City Center in Columbus too, and Franklin Mall in Toledo, and so on, etc.
Holder says we are cowards because we don't talk about race in this country. He may be right as whenever we do, we get our heads kicked in while being called racists. Go figure. Blacks are not interested in resolving issues as they see the issues as their primary source of power.
sheeyit Highland Mall was always the fucking ghetto mall... now it's going to be ACC, which is a step up imho and better use for the property...
btw, anything and I mean anything that's built close to a Greyhound bus terminal is going to end up being seedy as fuck... you can set your watch to it... same goes for Amtrak...
>>>The problem is that america is running out of young white people to pay for stuff and support welfare.
For unknown reasons, they just aren't reproducing at replacement levels anymore. Can't really say I blame them, either.
If a younger-generation American asks me for my thoughts re jobs, the future etc., I just tell them to emigrate; this has irritated their parents a bit. I should have told 'em to go into politics, or "banking". Or maybe become a movie star.
Dumb white males watching TV, NFL, NCAA and NBA are chrring their extinction. Idiots.
To piggyback on "are we" and Dust: The white buyers, which included many middle aged white women and 30's whites with kids started to become afraid of the mall. (These were a segment who would go to the mall to shop a bit, have lunch and get out of the house in the middle of a weekday.) At first security fought to keep the atmosphere safe but the trouble element became more confrontative. Eating at the food court with their kids or a couple other women became unpleasant due to the new atmosphere, language and noise. When groups were kicked out for general attitude, noise and being a nuisance local news portrayed it as racism.
Vehicles started being broken into and some shoppers were mugged or just assaulted in the parking lots. Followed by shoppers being shoved or forced to squeeze against the wall while a group might walk by. There were some fights or assaults on shoppers who stood up to the thugs within the mall. The thugs just beat the shopper down and took off. At that point a critical profit group left and did not return.
The group that was left did all the hanging out in the mall but instead of buying they steal and are entertained with vandalism and harrassing the lowly security staff. I even became uncomfortable walking out after dark.
Yes, yes , yes. See my comment above. If only these truths would work their way into the articles. Successful malls offer high end products because the scum can't buy them and they stay away (although my cousin in loss prevention at Nordstrom still apprehends many), a weird analogy to nice real estate markets that force upon the would be buyer the "black tax", forcing you to pay $30,000 to $50,000 more for a house to live in a "decent" neighborhood...that just coincidentally happens to be all white.
"Obamall's" the retail equivalent of Obamaville's.
I like that. We "Obamalled some joints"
The closing of malls (sad as it may be to some) is surely part of the creative destruction demanded by a free market.
The trend is a healthy one particularly if the consumer regains his first and foremost identity as a human being.
Perhaps these malls can be modified so as to cater for the homeless.
the creative destruction demanded by a free market.
A free market? Is that like a unicorn?
I guess several Silk Road style markets still exist on the Internet, so there's that. And there's always black marketing and smuggling going on, so there's that.
But a public, open free market? Forgetaboutit. Not permitted.
There has never been a totally free market, but a distinguishing feature of a freer market has always been to allow failures to take place.
How could there ever be a free market when a central bank controls the quantity of fiat and a corrupt government in bed with special interests makes bad legislation consistently resulting in moral hazard or unintended consequences at best. Free markets - Where? When? Free Markets are an Austrian School Therory
WestOaks Mall at the west side of Houston used to be ok until apartments were built around its perimeters. Then all the transient type people who never owned a thing in their life brought their culture to the place and people stopped coming.
I worked at the Galleria mall for 15 years in operations and we kept the place 1st class, then the property was sold to Simon Properties. The place looks like a filthy shithole now, though there is some remodeling going on.
With the way things are going on with oil and markets, I wonder if the job will be completed and if so, if the mall will generate enough revenue to make it worth it. I think it will be a ghost town in a year.
I feel safest at Memorial City and Katy Mills malls.
When I am home from Travel, I always go to an older mall where there is now loads of spent brass from Hi-Points to stock up on in the parking lot.
You bring up a good point. My former realtor said never buy a house near apartment complxes OR a mall OR a hospital. She said those areas usually turn to ghettoes serving the low paid employees who work as jantiors etc in the hospital, mall, etc.
Problem is many cities now force builders to add an aprtment complex [or two or three] to their development. It's getting much harder now to find a reasonably crime-free place to live, not to mention the overpricing on the house itself.
It's sad but this country still has a huge crime problem. I'm with the guy/gal above; I do 90% of my shopping online now.
I cant even remember when I was last at a shopping mall. I think 4 or 5 years ago ... and I bought nothing. Prior to that was 2 years inbetween.
Malls suck.
At least we got Valley Girl Talk from that era. Where would Moon Unit be if not for that?
Where the hell is Moon Unit now?
Diging a shelter in the Mare Imbrium.
Could it have something to do with the roaming gangs? The strolling heffers and baggy pants crowd?
buy the dip.
i see dead people!
well not really, these are just tomorrows warehouses for internet distribution centres.
succesful malls just need to co-ordinate the two (internet and physical shopping) preferably with robot shopping assistants and automatic credit card payments at the exits (no counters).
I love this idea. Instead of building new warehouses with 28-foot ceilings, why not buy a dead mall for $1 and turn it into an Amazon distribution center? You could even open up the food court for employees to visit on lunch break.
Eventually, employees will want a pharmacy, a book-store and perhaps a clothing outlet too ---- just for old time's sake!
I don't see the malls becoming warehouses for internet distribution. It is much cheaper to build a purpose built warehouse with huge clearspan floors and rows of racks to rack/stack pallets 9 high using computerised stock picking.
The problem isn't that the malls are outdated or the consumer is tapped out. The problem is that far too many were built. Australia is just as wealthy and westernised as America and we have one seventh the retail floor space per capita compared to some US states.
You could close half of your malls and big box stores and you would still have too many.
Yes; this is correct. Coming back here from Brisbane; where i originally went as a tourist, was one of the worst mistakes I made in my life. Surfers Paradise; outside Brisbane, wow. just wow.
Time to go on Netflix and watch George Romero's Dawn of the Dead, where zombies swarm a deserted shopping mall "because they sense that it was once a very important place for them".
The irony, China is building empty malls and cities.
and
Old American malls and cities are emptying.
The Malls got Mauled!
Nasty plastic cheap shite and that's just the FOOD.
' Athlete's Foot ' Indeedeeeeeeee YUCK
Malls will die the moment Walmart starts building 2 floor Super Duper Walmarts.
With the collapse of "consumerism" in America due to misguided govt policy and bankster fraud/corruption, it won't be long before Americans move on to the next phase: obsession with SEX, which I believe is pretty much the final stage of societal collapse.
But fear not, England is way ahead of you on this. What, with Prince Andrew allegedly having had sex with an underage girl, Prince Charles having been a close friend of the serial pedophile Jimmy Savile, MSM obsessed with all the variations of sexual proclivity, including gay marriage and EU countries including prostitution in their GDP, we are surely not far from an implosion.
Then the political elites can be purged and renewal can begin.
"Obamaramius, will you be at the vomitorium tonight?"
"Yes! Reg and I will be at the Homotorium first, though."
Once the game rooms closed it was all downhill.
I miss my pinball. And I was pretty damn good at Asteroids and Donkey Kong
If I could snag an Asteroids machine with a good buzz, I could play all day or until my Walkman batteries wore out.
And then I drove home in my best friend's red Firebird.
Those were the days.
+1 Same story - different game: Kickman. Loved it! Froze up several machines on $0.25. Misspent youth.
Spaced Invaders, ahhh, the memories...
Sounds familiar. Those were fun times. We used to play some games and then to go York Steak House to eat a cheap burger or chopped steak. We could get out of there for about $6.50 for a great meal. The maybe hit a matinee for about $3.50.
Odd that the Short Hills Mall is cited as successful.
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2014/11/released_surveillance_video_sh...
The place is a honey-hole for the Norwegians who can make a 15 minute dash back to Newark to enjoy thier booty. I had Taubman as a client and while they ran a nice looking place they cannot control the environment they operate in.
America's beginning to look a lot like China
Everywhere you go;
Take a look at Detroit & New Haven, crumbling once again
With Asian Aeroplanes and power plants aglow.
It's beginning to look a lot like China,
No toys in empty stores,
But the ugliest sight to see is the homeless that will be
On your own front doors
A pair of lace up boots and a pistol that shoots
Is the wish of America and Ben;
Dolls that will talk and will go for a walk
Is the hope of Janus and Satan;
And the Elite and Minions can hardly wait for the world to start again.
It's beginning to look a lot like China
Everywhere you go;
There's a tree in the Kabbalist Hotel, one in the Synagogue as well,
The sturdy kind that doesn't mind the nuclear snow.
It's beginning to look a lot like China;
Soon the bells will start,
And the thing that will make them ring is the tune that Saturnians sing
Right within their evil heart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9yfZBZdQaM
Fair post.
This is why Sears remains ‘dead man walking’. The only retail that can fill the vacuum is Wal-Mart.
Wal-Mart should take over the mall spaces of Sears. Put the hit on Macy’s & Nordstrom. Unload luxury goods to the masses. Why should we have to pay $50.00 for a bottle of cologne if Wal-Mart can bring it to us for $15.00?
We can all think of three good ideas for these unused spaces. However, they are left to rot. Those empty malls represent ‘negative’ interest rates, deflation, the coming war.
That's because about 99.9% of them are owned by Tribal members. They work the bankruptcy system through the courts, local governments and their bankster brothers. The towns suffer but they walk.
Why should we have to pay $50.00 for a bottle of cologne if Wal-Mart can bring it to us for $15.00?--
probably because wnat you get at Walmart is a cheap knock-off??
Malls represent centralization. I have always hated them. I'm glad they are in trouble, I hope they die off altogether.
I welcome ALL signs that people are rejecting things as they are. While big malls may not be able to hoover-up enough money to stay profitable, I'll bet those neighborhoods CAN support a handful of small, local businesses now.
Turn them into community-run space for local activities, or let locals open a 'market' where they can rent space cheap and have yard sales, or offer goods and services to their neighbors.
That way you put the properties to use so they don't deteriorate, and the communities benefit at a time they REALLY could use it.
Or they can carry on with the present course and continue to hound small entrepreneurs with their endless rules, regulations, fees and Byzantine tax laws, and let the empty malls rot where they stand.
Business property should not be allowed to sit vacant. If it isn't being used, people in the area should be allowed to apply to use it in return for a very favorable rent, which can paid to the owner, or held in escrow pending a decision on who should get it. But the property, once physically abandoned by its owner, should, as business property, be immediately put back to business use for the good of the whole community. Both in having active businesses THERE, and in the revenue from business generated.
Not confiscated, let me be clear. But whatever issue the owner is having should be his problem to solve, it should never be allowed to hold everyone else back. The new user will pay him a fair amount while he decides what he wants to DO with the property. But as business property, it rightfully belongs to 'the commons' as far as its USE goes, and should be used as such. Not left vacant as an eyesore that drives property values down.
Comrade! Small Business is not allowed in Hillary's AmeriKan Soviet!
No soup for you today!
During the Asian Contagion of 1997, I read about malls in Thailand going bankrupt and peddlers paying $2/day to hock clothes in the parking lot. I guess letting them sell indoors would involve too many fixed costs -- AC, lighting, running water, insurance, debt payments...
As long as you let a building sit vacant, you can pretend it's worth $1000 a square foot. If you rent it out to local small business, you'll have a much more realistic measure of its value, which you don't want.
Ah I see, vacent malls are AAA+ rated assets.
Good catch Dave.
Mark-to-myth is so much more marketable than mark-to-market.
Ah but they will make excellent FEMA camps! Bread and Circus for everyone, oh and a free Obamaphone. Is it not insane that free phones are actually named after the first black President? It is almost as if it was planned...
haha, you beat me.
"Yes, Comrade, report to Sec. 124 down the way. They have the salt mine assignments."
Yep, the ole mall was now a cubicalized FEMA Center, with razor wire and rabid guards with the Bath House Logo patch.
The phone are in no way "free"
Check your phone statement chief, YOU are paying for those phones.
Pisses me off every GD month.
The phone program existed long before Obama.
http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline
Future adult daycare centers...
Excellent idea.
If the structural integrity of the buildings remain intact, cram the Baby Boomers into those spaces. We can’t have them wandering into roads.
Over advertised!
Wake up in the morning and turn on the radio and you have a 50/50 chance of a commercial playing.
Midnight to early AM hours these fools want me to get out of bed and call them right now for a deal of a lifetime.
At least radio is free. How about a 50% chance of turning the TV on to an advertisement for a channel as you're ready paying for in you $100 a month pay tv bill?
You mean Dinovite, Texas Super Food, Bravado, something to cure your already enlarged prostate, something to make your dick hard constantly, IRS threat commercials, loan sharks, pawn shops wanting your gold, PSA's that threaten you about seat belts and what not, ambulance chasers that sound like they are doing the world a favor, cars at 0% interest for 72 months, "retail is for suckers" ads that claim to nearly give away top-notch furniture, etc?
Oh, they sicken me. Especially first thing in the morning when all I want is a little weather report and some local news. I have turned my back on 99% of all media. It all sucks. Radio, TV, newspapers, internet, et. al. Horrible.
I think that Malls will still be prevalent. It is just that Macy's will be replaced by Goodwill...
It's really all the same shit they sell, Macy's - Goodwill, etc. The only difference is that of a new car to a 'pre-owned'.
Instead of Obama-Care, we could enforce Obama-Carrriers. Outlaw any non-government-owned delivery service. We'd be running back to the malls in no time flat.
Hmm. 2 day shipping from a warehouse in a low rent district to my door or hours spent trying to locate an item and then having the privilege of paying up for the experience to cover real estate and staffing costs of the 1980s time warp?
A mall has the potential to be a manufacturing, warehouse and distribution point. A 'Tech-Center' campus if you will.
Think KKD.
But I think so-called multiculturalism will fail and once the suburbs go over the falls, we’ll see vast wastelands run by warlords and tribes. Centralized humanitarian services will be offered in the cities, with bus routes! Ha Ha.
Stupid zoning laws and restrictions that prohibit small retail businesses in neighbourhoods.
You go to Europe, Mexico, Asia and see small produce stores everywhere right near houses. People buy bread, milk, meat every day.
In America, you have to drive 30 minutes to a big plaza with Costco, Sears, etc.
Doom porn.
I get it that many malls may close, especially the bad ones, BUT 3% of malls more than 40% empty is not exactly armageddon. 80% are 90% or more filled.
You tell ‘em. Detroit is on the verge of a comeback too.
Doom Porn:::…
Curtis Mayfield - Pusherman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCDAfa-NI-M
So; "Dead Man Walking" means you're an optimist ? don't have any time for "doom porn" ? uh-huh. one of us is confused.
I hereby christen the word, "MALLARIA" as meaning the mall killing disease spreading across the country and soon to affect a mall near you.
Hey; let's trademark that, and write an i-app. for it !!! let's get together with the Venture Captial guys for a power lunch.
Where are the Chinese central planners?
If they were running this these would have been remodeled ghost malls.
People,
I just don't how much this actually has to do with our economy. I am 51 and have never liked nor shopped at any mall anywhere. I take the kids there when it rains. Other than that, I think millions of other people do not have any use for a mall. Wait, I do occasionally go to a movie there. Why go to Dillards, Nordstroms or whoever when you can go to their clearance stores and pay pennies on the dollar for the same stuff they are selling in their stores in the mall? It's not the economies fault if we don't need malls. Why can't a mall go through the same cycles as any other business. When you're hot you're hot when you're not you're not. Just another example as to why the government and Fed should go back to the theory of sometimes you win sometimes you loose. Not sometimes you win other times you get bailed out. The financial idiots are learning that there are very few, if any, assets that should be financed for more than 15 years. That's where we are headed.
The Salvation Army thrift stores are crowded.
Go on Craigslist and you'll find plenty of great deals.
Some almost new furniture for practically free.
Baby boomers are trying to empty their homes and downsize.
The buying stuff days are over.
Bedbugs actually free.
i never go to thrift places...
i think it is strange to go there unless u r really poor or something
then yes that is the place
bothers me when ppl have decent income and shop there
huh, why there ?
looks like you just outed yourself as the 10% and/or someone who wants to waste money
Mow 'em all down if it comes to that. Plant some trees, dig out a sandbox and enjoy a few wide-open acres of ~real~ Fun. Cheap maintenance too comparatively speaking, to a mall.
Malls are dying because thats where the middle class use to shop.
Yes...when we had a middle class.
Why do abandoned things always have old tires laying around? Who goes out of their way to drive to the mall just for the sake of dumping used tires?
Excellent question. I have no answer but often wonder.
The same people who get in fist fights in the parking lots of cowboy bars on Friday nights; people you don't want to know.
Boomers be selling, not buying, and the peoples coming up behind them don't hve the numbers or the quality jobs to take their place
i got a mall for sale anyone want to buy it. or I will trade for a beagle and a hot cup of coffe
All kidding aside, American shopping malls will go for one Gold Eagle.
Only if the owner can find an extremely dim guy with a Gold Eagle.
Green shoots
Why are you even need malls? You have stocks and paper gold... stupid yankins are thinking about malls xD
So it would seem that NY Times wants to take as many businesses as possible with it when dead tree newsprint goes byebye.
I guess that it is time to get rid of my GGP stock.
Just thinking on the fly, my first thought is that it might be most appropriate at this time for enterprising developers to start rethinking purposes here, and turn many of these growing ghost-markets into intentional-community arcologies, say, like prepper enclaves that would have enough room to grow all their own food indoors in structures that already come with easily secured entrances, a fitness center, and a cinemaplex or two, etc., etc. I bet it would be far easier to sell shares in corresponding "survivalist" co-ops today than many believe, even at this late date. After all, we can't all afford to live in condominiumized missil silos at a $million or so a pop. Let's not kid ourselves. 2015 is going to scare the pants off a whole mess of people.
Any takers? I claim dibs on first choice for occupancy! : )
Hmm...survivalist communes, eh? Intriguing concept, although the regulatory or taxing oversight from any bureaucrats would likely destroy the project.
It would also have the potential of becoming a real life Dawn of the Dead scenario in a SHTF reality. The starving hordes would know where the food is, and they would show up.
.
I'm thinking that's maybe too hollywood a scenario. In the final analysis, starving people are much too weak to take on the additional stress of conflict in large numbers. Normal security measures remain in force.
However, given that most malls are in a suburban environment, a great many previously valuable things in potential trade for food would/will most certainly come out of the woodwork. I guess there's some irony in that, given that the mall would remain a potential marketplace --for the very reason that it collapsed as one in the first place.
Good food for thought.
People involved also put a bullseye on themselves. You do not want to advertise that you are a prepper or join a community like that.
Some of these comments about repurposeing these malls is really stupid. The middle class died. It is not coming back any time soon if ever. The USA is morphing into something like Brazil.
The malls are almost like Detroit. Not needed, serves no purpose, better off turned into prarie land.
I hate malls. Never gone to one in at least 10 years. Parking lots are dangerous and gang members hang out in malls and have shootouts. They should all be bulldozed.
"They should all be bulldozed."---The Malls, or the gang members ? Personally, I'm all in favor of bulldozing the gang members; solve several problems at once.
What to do with dead malls?
CHARTER SCHOOLS! Every little store becomes a classroom. Big stores become gyms and auditoriums.
You do not need that space and the middle class died so you do not need charter schools.
Symptoms of dying micro- economies not supported by the .01%. I've been pointing this out for a whiile, this gangrenous spread of dying retail and commercial "at the edges." Once they're gone, they won't be "repositioned." They just won't come back. Entire towns whose main economic activity is collecting government checks and waiting for their demise. It's all around you once you leave the big cities and their affluent suburbs. It looks like Mad Max.
Are you kidding? Thank Amazon. I have Prime and not driven to a mall in 2 years, the gas money paid for the service fee, plus you get rock bottom pricing EVERY TIME. The question for this forum is what is going to Amazon Amazon... that's the place to make your bets. Although I think putting your money in the bankrupt bank at ZIRP is also a good deal:)
Amazon is full of counterfeit goods, whether you know it or not, and merchants pony up 15% fee so its really never the best deal. I enjoy researching products on Amazon (to a certain extent) but avoid purchasing because you can almost always get it for less from the manufacturer, who is happy you found them because Amazsn's 15%.
i agree with you
i don't think amazon is that cheap... esp when u research around
i always find a different places that sell for less
ppl think they are getting a deal there
suckers
is all i can say.
See you in barter town...
Where I'll be running a well-organized, and well guarded, store selling basic foodstuffs for Silver Coins. Silver; don't leave home without it.
We mauled some folks...
How's a fat person going to drive around in a cart and look for food items. Certainly can't forage off those grounds.
It's the DEEtroit cancer, metastisizing to a location near you, and to many parts of the terminally-indebted country. And its spreading to the smaller strip centers, all of which in our desert cities CA area are in the 10-40% vacant category, and some 70-90% vacant: The new 'anchor' tenant in one of our 2008-built nearby strip centers on the main highway is the small H&R Block office, the only remaining business in the 12 store otherwise empty center. Most of the newly built strip centers here began in 2009 to lose new tenants before the centers were 50% rented.
And the 4 year vacant Sam's Club, next to the barely surviving Wal*Mart, in our largest big-box center, along with the nearby and still-empty Circuit City, BestBuy, Cadillac, Buick and several regional bank and restaurant locations, give a 'swiss cheese' appearance to shoppers, like, which store is the next empty hole to display a new 'For Lease' sign on the window.
Thrift stores are thriving: Goodwill builds a new storage wing and expands the store, the failed Ace Hardware is finally occupied by another thrift, the local police station is vacated to save rent and the force moves into empty space in the overbuilt and largely unoccupied city hall, Kroger closes the only grocery within 4 miles, postal annexes close on weekends and restaurants reduce hours to save labor costs: you don't need radar to see the retail, debt and spending contraction creeping into all areas of town, federal gov't. waste, overspending and borrowing notwithstanding.
Franzpick; helluva screen name. famous quote; "Bonds are instruments of guaranteed confistication". "No one could have seen this coming"---Ha, Ha. Shit. Greed goeth before a fall; well the greed part was fun; the fall part, probably not so much.
Use them for sports. Boxing, wrestling, tennis, basketball, etc etc etc.
Starting in the mid-1990s, "the mall genie was out of the bottle,"
Interesting, the Mall of America was completed in 1992. At the time it was the second largest mall in the US by area and largest by number of stores (the area will soon to be doubled with hotels and a bass-pro shop and maybe a spa or two).
The grandest structures are built right before the crash. But for the MOA it helps to build right next to an airport, two interstates and a location where snow can be on the ground six months out of the year.
It's not without it's troubles. Please see link:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/story/2011-12-27/...
The grandest structures are built right before the crash.
Maybe it's a longstanding human frailty: us investors in the 1970s-80s silicon valley prelude joked that when Hewlett Packard, Memorex, Varion and others announced the building of a new plant expansion, it was time to sell the stock, and the timing was right.
Jesus was born in a Mall or was it a Stall? Waz always useless at histowy.
Municipalities love these for taxes. When they close down and are bulldozed they lose revenue.
They'll have to charge higher taxes on everyone else for the fat government pensions and pay.
The Malls used to be a great place to sell drugs
Finally a solution to close GitMo!
Are those Drones in Pic.2 or where Alfred Hitchcock filmed . . ?
The Randall Park Mall outside of Cleveland has been vacant for many years. It is currently being torn down. This place was a very nice mall before the ghetto completely encroached:
http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/30/news/worlds-biggest-mall-randall-demolit...
We've got a gargantuan mall catering to affluent. King of Prussia
Don't dare be seen in there without your North Face coat and your Ugg boots
Also helps if you can speak Chinese. That seems to make up half their customers, but dollar may be killing that bonanza
They have been doing well and surrounding malls are dying. Some malls bringing in restaurants and medical services
But KOP getting cocky now, adding another 155k square feet after adding/converting about 50-60 a year ago.
Surely this is a top
There are two mega mixed use "villages" within 5 miles that have been struggling to get 5% complete since last RE bubble. After years of legal wrangling and money struggles, both are mostly empty lots just sitting for years graded with a Wegmans and some occasional work on infrastructure. ZIRP is the only thing keeping them out of BK
The owner of the King of Prussia Mall unveiled its expansion plans yesterday. Simon Property Group announced details and showed off renderings of the already-underway expansion that will connect the two malls at King of Prussia, The Court and The Plaza.
The 155,000-square-foot expansion, which will be fully enclosed, is scheduled to be completed in the fall of 2016. The mall will also add a new parking garage “with speed ramps, space location technology and valet service.”
Trending: Here’s Why You Should Save Your Money and Skip Tory Burch’s New Fitbit Accessories“The expansion of King of Prussia Mall will further enhance the shopping and dining experience of one of the nation’s largest and most compelling retail destinations,” Simon president David J. Contis said in a release. “Based on the success of luxury retailers like Cartier, Tiffany & Co., Hermes and Louis Vuitton, we’re seeing a strong interest from other luxury brands to join the King of Prussia roster of retailers. Interest by national and Philadelphia-area restaurants is also high.”
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When the expansion is completed, King of Prussia will have more than 450 retail shops and dining options in 2.86 million square feet of space. Simon is also renovating the former Franklin Mills in Far Northeast Philadelphia, now named Philadelphia Mills.
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/shoppist/2014/11/19/king-prussia-mall-unveils-e...
I'm shorting Simon Property Group immediately; they're crazy; thanks for the tip.
Up here in Armpitville, NY (Rochester), Wilmorite Corp recently got a sweetheart deal from NYS to build a casino in a shithole town out towards Syracuse. Methinks the well-connected Wilmot family are reading their tea leaves, and know bricks and mortar retail is dead (they own several malls, here and elsewhere). So just pay off some corrupt NYS assholes, and get inti the casino husiness.
Problem solved. Build a casino, dump a few malls within 5 years.
Certainly not the case in the NYC metro area or in eastern Mass. On Long Island, try finding a parking space at the Roosevelt field mall during any weekend (not including the holidays ) or at Garden State Plaze in Northern NJ.. Even the stores in these so called 'mini' or strip malls are packed.. In eastern Mass near Boston Assembly row just opened in Medford MA and something that is so much the antithesis of 'mall culture' there is a new T stop right nearby.. Now these places are so called outdoor 'lifestyle centers' (great idea when the high temperature is under 50 degrees at least 6 months out of the yaer BUT of course all these 20 somethings who are supposedly so broke are wearing their $700 Canadian Goose coats... These people in New England & Long Island LIVE for shopping even if they are paying $10,000 or more a year in property taxes on their 50 year old home -- seriously some of the most vapid , materialistic peop;le in this area who judge others by what they wear & car they drive.
$10,000 a year in property taxes--" thank you Jesus for not letting me be born stupid. What's wrong with these people ? That's not a tax, that's rent.
Look at me.
Look at me!
Those look like they'd be fun places to bash my traxxas around now!
FEMA just solved its anicipated overflow problems with its camps. Only thing missing are the crematoriums.
It's a mixed bag here in Los Angeles, one overflowing mall is five miles from an abandoned mall, and it doesn't seem directly related to the immediately surrounding neighborhoods or the availability of parking or much of anything.
The mid-level malls are having the most problems, it seems, and let's see how even the hot malls do coming into 2015. Retail continues a downtrend, but cheaper gas may help - or not, if people just use it to buy new smartphones to shop on.
It's called the Internet and it may be here to stay.
Maybe if we outlawed UPS and FedEx, it would help the malls.
Any Marylanders here? Almost all of those pictures are from my home state. NSA probably knows this, but I once lived maybe ¼ mile from that mall.
I'm done with all the big brick and mortar stores in our area. Went towsontown center to get some shopping done. Walked all 4 floors and only really looked in 2 stores, only buying anything in 1. Couldn't find a good leather jacket anywhere, so decided to go to burlington coat factory in hunt valley mall. First time being in a burlington coat factory, you can understand my bewilderment at finding that their men's coat section is, literally, just 2 racks with not a single real leather coat to be found. I know because I walked the place twice just muttering to myself. 5 fucking aisles of housewares, but only 2 racks of men's coats at burlington COAT factory. I vowed then and there to just buy everything online.
Wonder who's paying the taxes now?