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Greece's New Leader Sends Germany A Loud Message With His First Act
Update:
Tsipras's first meeting with a foreign ambassador since being elected Greek PM was with Russia's Andrey Maslov #Greece #ekloges2015
— Nick Malkoutzis (@NickMalkoutzis) January 26, 2015
* * *
"Hi Angela, do you hear me now?"
First act as PM, #Tsipras visits Kaisariani rifle range where Nazis executed 200 Greeks on 1 May 1944 v/@dgatopoulos pic.twitter.com/a4CeNgsw66
— Damian Mac Con Uladh (@damomac) January 26, 2015
Among those executed in 1944 at Kaisariani firing range, where #Tsipras laid flowers today, was brother of Syriza MEP Manolis Glezos
— Damian Mac Con Uladh (@damomac) January 26, 2015
And perhaps on a related note, moments earlier:
- MERKEL SAYS AUSCHWITZ 'FILLS US WITH SHAME'
No shame, however, for switching the DEM with the EUR.
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OT Speaking of calling them as you see them. Congratulations Tylers- 152,000 hits on the U.S. soldier in the Ukraine. If the MSM keeps singing the company song- soon enough no one will be listening.
151,000 of them were deciding if the accent was Boston or Philly.
I finally resolved the issue by figuring out it was Mark Wahlberg playing Vince Papale in Invincible.
You're welcome!
"Calls em' as he sees em'"
Like Putin...which begs the question...when will Putin visit the new Communist leader of Greece? LOL...that is going to be fun...imagine the two forming an alliance!
Putin and this lesser of all douches couldn't be any more different. If Putin does meet with Tsipras, I doubt it'll be anything as honorable as a State visit - maybe among other European leaders inclined toward Russia.
Never trust anyone who is constantly broke to be trusted to do what is right, for they have absolutely nothing to lose.
- Larry Dallas
That would be the first thing i would have done....lol....
The first thing shoulda been to torch the nearest Deustch Bank.
Perhaps that's tomorrow.....you want to build to a crescendo.
The first thing I would have done was to declare all governments everywhere illegitimate and declare greece a free market zone where property ownership is absolute.
Oh he's trolling Merkel hard now.
Krýstallo-nýchta.
Yes, I think these are crocodile tears. If he was for real, he would have shot banksters.
Well, at least we now know his political credentials are in order.
Interesting to see what happens when the EU and ECB send in the auditors to check on the progress of Greece's financial reforms.
Yeah, I don't think the Greeks give a shit.
That facade was propped up by the ECB anyhow. It was a stop gap measure such that they could give the impression that "all is well". In fact, I would think it would be the last thing the EU and/or the ECB would do. It would expose thier own fraud and true lack of control in this situation.
There are no records to audit. All government offices were looted in 2012 and it hasn't gotten any better. No one paying taxes, either. That said, there may still be time to pull an Iceland, but the window is closing.
A political boot to the testicles, so to speak.
Yeah... a reminder at how they got their asses kicked the last time they defied Germany.
And when somebody else stepped up to save them, they ended up with a 5 decade long fzscist government.
like that was any better...
If I would live in Greece, I’d get the fuck out of there asap
.
If I would live in [CountryName], I’d get the fuck out of there asap
And go where, exactly?
Whatever time zone Simon Black has most recently set his Rochefocauld to naturally.
The cream of the crop has left already. Still standing are the old and the bureaucrats and other former or current public servants. Good luck building a nation without money and endless government promises, promises, promises.
If they're lucky Russia will step in and give them a hand. Probably their one and only hope which is why the PM went to see Russia's ambassador this morning.
I would imagine the Greeks are extremely grateful that you and the other fuckwit fascists posting here are not living there; they've had quite enough homegrown ones thank you very much.
European Union stuff at it’s best...
reminds me of that muslim crap where they justify their crap for something that happened over 500 years ago...
like this, you can always find a reason to turn you’re back to somebody or call for hate.
Agreed, this is childish and uncalled for. Nobody, not in the least the majority of today's Germans (most of whom weren't even born back then), dispute that what has happened some 70 years ago in Europe should never have happened. Tsipras should be dealing with today's problems, which are a common responsibility of the Troika-Kombinat and the Greeks. If he's so obsessed with fascism, he better keep an eye on Golden Dawn. Proportionately, the right wing extremists seem to better reperesented in Greece than in Germany.
Extremists? Lol... why do you call them that? Because the media calls them that? Think for yourself buddy... dont follow the Jew/NWO controlled media's narrative
Let's cut this crap short. Open the link to their own political program in English - no Jew/NWO controlled media narrative required.
http://golden-dawn-international-newsroom.blogspot.com/p/the-program-of-...
At times, it reads like Mein fucking Kampf.
Ever think that this is a set up to show how bad austerity is on the people and how much better it would be to stick with Europe?
Question everything.
Just like abe visiting war shrines
Check Mate Merkel.
I like this guy.
oh. my. goodness. as if Germans would be like Chinese protesting about the war memorials in Japan
plenty of Germans that pilgrim from one Nazi terror site to the other every year. that this is a middle finger pointed to Angela Merkel is... specious. he could have even asked her to come and she might have even come
Kaisariani was a war crime, done by war criminals. perhaps we should concentrate more on war crimes being committed now, instead of fostering false animosity between the governments of Greece and Germany... for the financial impetus this gives to markets and the "nice-feeling" of nihilism this kind of reporting gives
A war crime is an odd concept. I am a bit surprised you subscribe to that. War does not determine who is right, rather who is left. The war crime concept smacks of hindsight and very easy finger pointing by people who do not really know how they would have acted in the same situation. Moreover, we know who judges war crimes, the victors or the powerful. This only adds to the ambiguity of the concept.
the Germans and Italians are back again ...
this time economic wars. most probably the sons and garndsons of formers SS ... there is a score to settle
Poor Alexi is blowing up ghrodo's world view.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jiaU0xbOKs
Up next, the bankers keeping the "expirment" alive.
I hope Alexi does a 180 reverse on his "we want to keep the EUR" and employs Kamakazi economics, and then bailout using a Russian/Chinese parachute before impact.
Eat shit Herman van Rompuy.
an odd concept? I'll make an easy-to-understand example that has happened many times - roughly in one out of hundred cases in history
I am the commander of a siege. I offer to let everybody escape that siege, on my word of honour, for one full day, before the final assault
and then... I execute those who I promised to they'd be free. a classic war crime. a crime against military honour, too. (the ambiguity came later)
A war crime is only for those who lose.
Those who win are never guilty of war crimes.
the logic of total war. a war crime for itself
I think you missed the sarcasm there
did I? total war used to be regarded as the act of lunatics... until it became somehow... fashionable
Nope. It was always fashionable...for the victors.
Lunatics were the other guys.
you all seem to take the "total war" concept as something that defines all war in history, or something like that. or at least it looks so. interesting for itself
meanwhile, there is a proxy-war going on. it's a kind of "limited war". not limited in atrocities, but limited in the "containment of certain acts". anyway, bb
seem to...something like...it looks so...
lol.
You are the first one to mention "total war" here, without defining the concept. A lot of wars in history can fit that description.
Meanwhile, you are further confusing the matter by bringing in "a proxy-war". Why don't you fess up and just say what you really want to say. That might help the discussion.
.
the problem is that people, including yourself, are contaminating or confusing the meaning of the word crime. The concept crime has a certain meaning within a national legal system, and it is very difficult to extrapolate it to a war setting. And then you say crime against military honour, where by using it in allegorical way, you further confuse the term.
this "contamination" does not come from me. it's a result of the WWII settlement. the concept of war crime is way older then that, was very specific and much clearer then now
in the above example, executing the remaining garrison would have been... my right, in the older setup. but yes, it's bad enough that this could confuse some... is it? really?
nevertheless, there is a common agreement among all sovereign nations here in Europe on which are the "war crime sites". and the above is one. fair enough?
Contamination comes from the fact that you are using a very odd example. Why didn't you go for something less ambiguous...like executing civilians.
After all, that's what Kaisariani is all about.
because it would make the example even more... difficult to explain? before the 20th Century, the reason for the execution of civilians would have mattered. the context
nope, I give up. It was not my intention to discuss with strangers about this, I just wanted to point out that Tsipras is Not Sending A Loud Message To Germany With His First Act as suggested by the article
I personally find that Jew skin lamp shades give a very comfortable warm glow. It is absolutely the best light to read about the relative merits of "war crimes" in a historical context.
Since the first casualty of war is truth, the ambiguity is there right from the start.
'Natural Law makes no false judgements. Its decisions are true and just even when dreadful. The victor gets the gold and the land every time. He also gets the fairest maidens, the glory tributes. And why should it be otherwise? Why should the delights of life go to failures and cowards? Why should the spoils of battle belong to the unwarlike? That would be insanity-utterly unnatural and immoral."
--Ragnar Redbeard, MIGHT IS RIGHT
Judging by the arrows, looks like you suckered lots of weak - minded types with your sophist argument.
A "War Crime" is when an Entity (person or group of people) commits acts of egregious and excessive violence against a civilian population, which has nothing to do with winning a military battle, but is done out of wanton and unbridled lust -- to indulge the psychos and terrorize and decimate the enemy's civilian population.
I was able to define this in the time I wrote it, to show that it is not so difficult to do.
Any more stoic dung you want to shovel out?
stoic dung? judging by the arrows? sophist arguments? well, congrats on defining so well something many lawyers and lawgivers are still coping with
have a good day, you and ZH in general. over and out
So the allied fire-bombing of Dresden, Germany was a "war crime"?
It was, since it was an act of revenge with virtually no military advantage or war objective attaching to it. It was an act if utter barbarism. And I write as an Englishman, who though still young, was actually alive at that time. I have since seen extensive footage and read the forensic, scientific evidence of what actually occurred in terms of what happened to human beings in the resultant firestorm. We are an utter fucking plague on this planet, a species that professes ethics, claims moral virtue by dint of belief in fictitious beings, follows religions based on 'love'. There is nothing natural about what we have done to each other, indeed are still doing; no other animal behaves with such ferocity and directed wilful destructiveness. From a detached standpoint the sheer waste of resources deliberately destroyed and routinely consumed in near unbelievable quantities marks us out as beyond insane and beyond redemption.
I missed that: "War does not determine who is right, rather who is left. " no. most emphatically no. I wonder about you. that's exactly what brought us the Peace of Versailles and then WWII. that's total war as a concept, which, imho, is a war crime for itself
but I see that the whole thread is becoming a mumble-jumble of badly set points for all sides, so I'll retreat from here before I get even more misunderstood
wrong venue for such discussions, definitely so
Thanks as always for your answers anyways, Ghordius.
I will think about your points. We do not have to agree, as long as I can learn from you I am grateful.
Ghordius
How readily you parrot the Obama obfuscation of convenience
about "looking ahead, not back" when it comes to war crimes
and denigrating war crimes by honoring war criminals.
You will doubtless be joined by a chorus of those who will mouth the
deceptive lexicon of GWBush that
the concept of "war crimes" is "quaint",
and that war is war, so anything goes,
so all sides are "equally" bad, attacker and attacked,
torturer and tortured. (Except that since "god" is on our side, we are forgiven.)
are you sure you were reading carefully what I wrote? I'll rephrase:
Tsipras is not offending Germany by visiting a site dedicated to the remembrance of the victims of a horrible act during WWII
comparing me to Bush... well, at least I can laugh about it
re-read what I wrote
I compared the arguments of the expected chorus at ZH to GWB's arguments.
Further, my comment was directed at the rebuke of Tsipras for allegedly stirring up "false animosity" for crimes in the past.
Are you so certain Tsipras' message was not instead
that he intended to avoid Greece being victimized again, either by military
OR financial conquest?
"perhaps we should concentrate more on war crimes being committed now, instead of fostering false animosity "
Well said, Ghordius.
Not that prior crimes should be forgotten or swept under the rug.
I detest the 'let's just more forward' doctrine that has evolved into new administrations basically running cover for prior administrations with the understanding that the administration that follows will do the same for their new misdeeds and crimes.
Ford should have allowed Nixon to go to prison for the good of the country. ALL of the arguments that'the country could not bear the political strife amount to cowardice and resignation at best. Justice was not served by pardoning Nixon and the cycle of covering for the prior criminal acts of previous administrations has been implacably enshrined in the political landscape since.
You should consider the self-contradiction of what you say.
What is ambiguous or contradictory in desiring that crimes of the past and the present both be confronted?
I don't see a contradiction. Instead of just claiming there is one, why don't you point it out...
I read your full agreement with Ghordius' sweeping generalization about
the need to concentrate on current war crimes
because attention to PAST war crimes only stirs up "false animosity"
as contradicting
your statement that past crimes ought to be prosecuted
as well as on-going ones (in the future?).
Also, your "well said" to Ghordius' comment endorses his apparent rebuke of Chinese for protesting against Japan's honoration of war criminals
"as if Germans would be like Chinese protesting about the war memorials in Japan".
and contradicts what you wrote about not forgetting past crimes.
"Not that prior crimes should be forgotten or swept under the rug. " fully agree. strangely, my words are being misunderstood in some twenty directions of things I never said but somehow echo something other people say. can't talk about the Nixon case, I don't know enough about it
""Not that prior crimes should be forgotten or swept under the rug. " fully agree. strangely, my words are being misunderstood in some twenty directions of things I never said but somehow echo something other people say. can't talk about the Nixon case, I don't know enough about it "
I perceive a lot of knee jerk reactions from all sides. Emotions are running hot. Who wants to pay for another persons misdeeds or be forced to shoulder their debts by force? Creditors will always express that re-payment is a sacred obligation or a legal imperative no matter how ill conceived the lending was. Nazis, socialists, criminals masquerading as either to enjoy autonymity or freedom to act without moral or ethical or legal restraint under cover of expedience, political mandate, exigent circumstance, etc..: ALL running amok with and without popular sanction...
It's a bloody free for all.
IMHO, it's high time we got past the rough words and started with the rough deeds.
There is much crime, ancient and recent, to be punished.
There are odious debts that simply require default.
There are people that have been oppressed that should throw off their chains -and even some that I contend have the right to expropriate and or murder their oppressors.
Don't be too troubled by harsh words when heinous crimes are finally about to be punished, precious debt is finally about to be expunged, and oppressors are finally about to be thrown out of their seized offices of power and oppression -some to be led to the gallows to finally pay the proper price for their heartless savagery and insatiable greed.
Ghordius
while you are attempting to clarify,
please also clarify what you meant when you wrote:
"as if Germans would be like Chinese protesting about the war memorials in Japan".
Your statement appears to be praising the Germans for ...?
And rebuking the Chinese for objecting to Japan's honoration of war criminals ?
What "terror" sites are you speaking of? The sites where millions of Germans were starved to death after WWII? I know of no other "Nazi terror sites", especially considering that the Hollowco$t is really a Holohoax. Please don't believe the lies of the banking class. In other words, don't believe the lies of the Jews. They're the most despicable liars in all of history. Martin Luther even wrote a book about that very subject.
I think the most important reason for reminding people of this history is because Tsipras and his government intend to press the issue of the money Germany owes Greece due to the forced loan that Greece made to Germany during the occupation of Greece. People may wonder why other Greek leaders didn't press the issue. They were probably paid off by Germany. Why else would a country not seek repayment of a loan it made (unwillingly)? Unlike Greece, Germany was not too broke to pay it back.
What a stupid move. Given that his goal is to get more German money while not repaying the old loans, this is a pretty poor way to start.
Socialists will be socialists.
You don't have to do anything.....we'll drain your bank account for free.
We use to talking about paying debt off.....now it's all about bail-ins.
What we need to be talking about are defaults, debt jubilees, and one giant middle finger to the banksters.
You obviously haven't been listening for the last few years. All of the "aid" to Greece goes directly to the northern banks that hold Greek debt. None of it is going to the Greek citizens.
Most of their national debt was built up pre 2010 crisis... so Greek citizens had a jolly good time. It's only logical that "they" don't get "aid" after that spending binge.
True. I guess it pleased his right-wing chums.
I don't get why you're getting trashed. If what you surmise is true - that he's interested in German funds, then yes, he's a jackass for opening up more or less closed wounds.
My guess is he's either trying to play EU against Putin and see where he gets the best deal, or he's playing this up so Greeks can vent and get it off their chests, then he'll go to the EU hat in hand and full of 'apologies'. Or, neither........
To the contrary, it is a brilliant move.
He understands German politicians. They one thing you can count on them is their selfhate for being German and their biggest fear of being called a Nazi. To avoid that they are willing to do anything, even it is against the interest of their country and people.
So by going there he makes Merkel and Co. feel uneasy. They are more likely to give the money that way.
But it anyway doesn't matter, because EC wants to keep Greece at all costs. So given the Greek know that, they also know that they will get the money no matter what they do. So one could read this whole show as a "see I piss on you and you still will give me the money you looser" statement.
Time to remind them of the EUR 1tn in reparations the Greeks are owed. Should buy them another few years sunning their lazy hides.
"Dolce far niente" attitude is not lazyness. It's a way to enjoy life with or without money.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dolce_far_niente
National Socialism; good stuff, good stuff.
a communist, atheist and anti-oligarch. i'm sure the banker-bought media in the US will paint this guy as a terrorist. afterall, how dare he not bend over to the unelected (banker) officials in the Troika?!?!?!
No, they won't paint this guy as a terrorist unless he comes out against anti-Russian sanctions. This guy is pro-death (abortion) pro-gay (marriange, etc.), pro-EU (Brussels is Greece's vocation). He wants to belong to the club, just doesn't want to pay the membership fee. He's an utterly conventional leftist whose main goal appears to be debt relief.
Now, the fact that he has entered into coalition with Independent Greeks -- a moderate, Greek Orthodox, patriotic, anti-EU party, rather than concluding a deal with PASOK (the old-line socialist party, hopelessly corruport and pro-EU) indicates Tsipras might well give precedence to Greek national interests over and above the socialiy nihilistic elements of his agenda (abortion/gay stuff). If so, great; in that case, yes, it could just be a matter of time before he's labelled a terrorist. Any pro-Russian noises or moves would be the kiss of death.
Hahhaha, a conventional Leftist who wants a Free Ride.
So True.
If the Russian Orthodox Church has any political stroke in Russia, they'll try hard for Greece based on a purely historical perspective (St. Basil, St Cyril, etc.)
Depends. If Russia must choose between Turkey as an ally or Greece (apparently the two don't get along), I'd say Turkey.
But why not both, provided citizens can put their historical concerns behind them.
Sounds like you need a dose of doug Stanhope's foetus photo routine http://youtu.be/IkoPDkjNHKc
a communist, a muslim and a Kenyan walks into a bar...
Is he laying flowers in support of his fellow sociaists in the NAZI party, or for the Greeks murdered by the NAZIs? I'm confused.
Are you mixing up Syriza and Golden Dawn?
I can't see this working out for the Greeks in the short term but its about time someone stood up and said most of these debts (around the world) can't and won't be repaid. The world needs creative destruction.
Shot across the bow!
Really was not that long ago. US still deals with Slavery 150 years ago. Is there a statute of limitations on murder?
Much of the complaining here at ZH today is because
the complainers don't like the Tsipras visit because Tsipras is a "socialist",
and they reflexively don't like anything "socialists" do
even if it is the same as what they do.
Feel free to dispute my comment if you have denounced
the many, many "Pearl Harbor", "Bataan Death March"
and countless other war memorials in the US
as only serving to stir up "animosities".
Shots fired
Blaming Germany for Greece's woes must have the Rothschild banksters, who are the ones really responsible for Greece's problems, rolling in the aisles of their private jets with laughter. If we did not have a Rothschild controlled central bank in charge of the EU money supply what happened in Greece would have never occurred.
Yep, the Wizard pulling the leevers behind the curtains ( EU / ECB / NATO etc. ) has caused the rise of ...wait
.... the same old gaming of innocent people/Nations against other innocent people/Nations.
The ELITES at the TOP should be arrested and tried , for ...
A) Conspiracy to defraud the masses ( BigBanksters )
B) Personal Bribes which enables the fraud ( Politicians )
C) all the Lobbyists in Brussels who made out like bandits by selling the Frauds
D) last but not least .. THE MSM for the Goebbels-like Orchestration of the Illusion
That's my take anyway . oh wait , not just my take afterall ... Mike Hudson explains it all beautifully ....
... Neo-Feudalism is here ( to stay ) , unless we can stop it .....
http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/226067-great-recession-recovers-world/
Russia and China can have another country join it's coalition. Spain and Italy can also join.
The US puts people in the Ukraine, Russia can make a stand in countries where the New World Order bankers got carried away.
The man's a fool. Geeece voted for what? Poverty and freedom? They voted for niether and will get one without the other.
Aren't we all?
"Poverty and freedom? "
WTF is wrong with poverty and freedom?
With the freedom part intact one may conceivably be left unmolested to manage their own affairs, be creative, entrepreneureal, productive -and ultimately engineer one's own unique path out of poverty.
Without freedom can anyone with membership in organized criminal syndicate or oligarch by birth ever expect anything but poverty?
To hell with the inheritor/rentier class and the closed society of the gulag/company store.
If Tsipras is going to make a point of visiting all the places in Greece where Germans massacred Greeks during WW2 he's not going to have much time for anything else for the next few months.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Greece
"Adolf, I want to smoke that commie Tsipras guy."
"Not now, Benito. I have ...plans for our Red enemies. Now, don't go doing anything stupid like invading Greece. It would throw off the timetable for my Secret Plan."
"What is the Plan?"
"It is Secret."
"You won't tell Me, your partner in the Axis?"
"No. Now, did you hear me about Greece? Hello? Hello?"
And then, if he has any flowers left he should trot up to Ukaine to commemorate the Greek dead that Stalin left behind:
From Genocide Watch
Case Study:
Stalin's Purges
Under the dictatorship of Joseph Stalin, tens of millions of ordinary individuals were executed or imprisoned in labour camps that were little more than death camps. Perceived political orientation was the key variable in these mass atrocities. But gender played an important role, and in many respects the Purge period of Soviet history can be considered the worst gendercide of the twentieth century. …
By the time Stalin's wrath descended on his countrymen and women, the USSR had already suffered a devastating decline in its cohort of younger adult males. World War I, the Russian Revolution, and the subsequent civil war that pitted "Reds" against "Whites," had inflicted its "heaviest" losses "in the age group 16-49, particularly in its male contingent," writes Richard Pipes, "of which it had eradicated by August 1920 -- that is, before the famine [of 1922] had done its work -- 29 percent." The monstrous famines of the early 1920s and early 1930s were indiscriminate in their impact on the afflicted populations. But the campaign of mass executions launched against the kulaks -- designated "wealthier" peasants -- also overwhelmingly targeted males. "In Kiev jail they are reported at this time [1929-30] shooting 70-120 men a night," reports Robert Conquest; a typical story "is of the Ukrainian village of Velyki Solontsi where, after 52 men had been removed as kulaks, their women and children were taken, dumped on a sandy stretch along the Vorskla River and left there." (Excerpts from Conquest, The Harvest of Sorrow.) The vast majority of "kulaks" imprisoned in the labour/death camps were also male (see the incarceration/death penalty case study). The gendered impact of the Purge period itself on Soviet society we now turn to consider.
As for Greeks, shouldn’t Tsipras, a former Communist, know this?
The gendering of the witch-hunt was cast into particularly sharp relief in those cases where most, sometimes almost all, adult males among a given population were rounded up for mass arrest and probable death. Writes Robert W. Thurston: "According to some reports, entire groups of men were taken in one swoop by the NKVD. 'Almost all the male inhabitants of the little Greek community where I lived [in the lower Ukraine] had been arrested,' recalled one émigré. Another reported that the NKVD took all males between the ages of seventeen and seventy from his village of German-Russians. ... In some stories, the police clearly knew they were arresting innocent people. For example, an order reportedly arrived in Tashkent to 'Send 200 [prisoners]!' The local NKVD was at its wits' end about who else to arrest, having exhausted all the obvious possibilities, until it learned that a band of 'gypsies' (Romany) had just camped in town. Police surrounded them and charged every male from seventeen to sixty with sabotage." In the city of Zherinka, "'Ivan Ivanovich' ... had his wife sew rubles [Soviet currency] into his coat because the NKVD was taking all the men in his town." (Thurston, Life and Terror in Stalin's Russia, 1934-1941 [New Haven: Yale University Press, 1996], pp. 79-80, 150.
As the above examples suggest, the campaigns were further fuelled by the "denunciation quotas"…
http://www.gendercide.org/case_stalin.html
He is another debt-slave leading his fellow debt-slaves until he finds a way to lead Greece out of the political-economic bankster system that keeps them in debt chains.
Like that other Orthodox guy.
Maybe he should make friends with that other Orthodox guy. Gosh they could be such good friends a few warm water naval bases could be built with 10000-year leases, creating Greek construciton jobs too.
Interesting observation re the Orthodox Church.
I'd go a step further and argue that the entire Western Christianity (Church of Rome and all its hundreds if Protestant spin-offs) has been corrupted and subjugated to the Church of Mammon, the Church of Usury.
The Muzzies and the Orthodox Churches are the holdouts or resistance fighters to the Church of Lucifer, and are therefore targeted by these Devils and their Army of Minions, by the United Satanists of America, so to speak.
Germany owes 162 billion in unpaid war reperations to Greece. Time to pay up.
http://www.sott.net/article/271102-Germany-owes-Greece-162-billion-in-WW...
Read this book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalingrad_%28book%29
Yes, please; it is an amazing book. The Tractor Works was a factory that manufactured tanks and during the battle of Stalingrad, the tanks would roll off the assembly line and go straight into battle, the Russians didn't even bother to paint them. After their shift was done, factory workers would go to the front lines to fight...This book is an epic tale of the Russian spirit and of amazing courage...
While one would like to dream that Greece will now show the EU the Finger, at the end of the day, isn't he still a marxist like the rest of the oligarchs? what's the difference between a marxist and a marxist? Guess only time will reveal the truth.
I thought that, too.
Maduro congrats Tsipras
If you do the RIGHT things, a nation can rise up from the ashes, Germany is a prime example; it is another amazing story...If the Greeks do the RIGHT things, they too can recover...., if not, the tragedy continues...
After WW2 there were no Nazi debts. They were jubileed by the Americans. The Germany economic miracle post WW2 was because there were an educated people with land and ability to create and produce. They did not have a debt burden, and hence their output vectored into production. They were also given markets for which to sell into.
Nazi economy was different than the “international gold/bankster” economy of that day. The prime reason for WW2 was Germany’s de-linking economically from world trade system. The parallels to Russia today are very profound.
Germany could no longer pay down Versailles debts and tried everything to re-negotiate said debts prior to Hitler in 1933. The Hyperinflation was due to an exchange rate collapse, as Germans were desperate to pay war debts with dollar/pounds/francs.
The Nazi economy built homes, built roads/bridges, built war material (secretly), and generally deployed their labor. They did not suffer a great depression between 1933 on, and in 1939 or so, Hitler was feted as Time’s man of the year. Why? Because the German economy was turning and burning, and the people were very happy. Again, they did not have a great depression like the rest of the world. This example to humanity had to be stopped.
Of course, a vertical pyramid political structure has the seeds of its own destruction built in. No one man, or even a small group of men should lead a country, there is too much chance for psychopaths to drive man off a cliff.
Today, the U.S. and West, has a hidden vertical pyramid of money powers controlling things behind the scenes. And, I might add, they don’t give a damn about their populations - yet Hitler cared deeply about his people. Of course now we know this fallible man, like all men are, led his country off a cliff, - but not after giving them prosperity. Germany after being busted out by hyperinflation, elected a populist leader Hitler. Whenever there is extreme strife, people will follow a populist who can give them answers
We have our own evil hidden vertical pyramid of psychopaths, who are not answerable to the people. The real Nazi’s are Zionism and occultist thought control paradigms that have gripped man’s mind, and lead him astray.
Ironically, the Greeks and others are disparaging to Nazi’s and use this term to evoke emotional responses. The reality is that Nazi’s were standing up to Bolshevism and predatory international bankster system. German behavior was a function of being smashed with hyperinflation; from being put on a debt hook. The Greeks themselves are victims of the very same thing that created Nazism.
I find it interesting that the first targets in the Jewish population were the bourgeoisie, banks, shops, culture etc not the 'man on the street.
Hitler was no lover of the banksters of the time. From that perspective a bit like Putin when he took over.
Russia and China need to get the PIIGS into their political circle.
A free-for all.
Banksters vs the Communist.
But they are both the same.
One of Lenin's Big deals was a central bank.
STEP 1. Round up the previous Government, placing them under House Arrest, ready for Interrogation for Collaborating with the Goldman NeoCON Troika Bankster Merchants of Death for the Asset stripping and Financial Crimes. Build your Evidence for the TRIALS in anticipation of the PUBLIC HANGINGS.
Sure, exit the Euro, tough guy.
So does OPEC accept Green Stamps?
Time to be entertained.
Nailgun express...
Two incredibly stupid acts, what Tsipras did, what Merkel said. What he did doesn’t represent the Greek people; what Merkel said doesn’t represent the Germany people.
The key here is the Greek people. They have spoken regardless of what their officials do or say. The Greeks said, Enough! to the bankers. The Greek people voted against the bankers. And that’s what’s happening in eastern Ukraine. The people are opposing the bankers. The Separatists represent the people’s stance against tyranny, against the bankers.
Yesterday's vote doesn’t have to do with WWII; that’s not what the Separatists are about or the Greeks are doing. They are trying to stand up with what’s happening now.
In the meantime, as Tsipras trots around the Kaisariani rifle range, the banker-controlled American Zionist empire continues its scorched earth policy. How about that, Tsipras?
Mariupol, Donetsk, Frunza, Firing on The Civilian Population in East Ukraine. Poroshenko Responsible for Crimes Against Humanity
By George Eliason
Global Research, January 25, 2015
A little over a week ago Petro Poroshenko ordered an all out assault on Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics. Faced with massive losses during the first few days the Poroshenko regime has resorted unsuccessfully to get both republic’s listed as terrorist organizations by the EU and United Nations.
It started with the Volonavaha bus attack after which the bus driver states in an interview with the Korrespondent that a mine exploded and killed his passengers in Ukrainian controlled territory. Images from the scene taken by the Ukrainian army shows a soldier carrying what appears to be a claymore mine. Claymore mines are directional explosives that are set off remotely or by a trip wire.
Kiev is engaging in a game of escalating crimes against humanity. Each attack on civilian populations has been followed by an all out media blitz trying to place blame on the fledgling republics. …
Read the details…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/mariupol-donetsk-frunza-firing-on-the-civilian-population-in-east-ukraine-poroshenko-resp
Go JR!
Give 'em hell, with your usual, interesting info and research.
Good post, but I think you're naive to assume that Tsirpas doesn't represent the Greek's opinion.
Turkey has nicer beaches anyway.
What was on the table in Greece was a better chance for a better economy and better representative government. It wasn’t: Let’s poke the Germans in the eye. When you are out of work and you can’t find enough food for your family, your first reaction, if you’re a Greek, is not to attack the German people. Your first reaction is Let’s dump the politicians we have and get something better.
And, frankly, I think there’s a lot more hatred of the bankers in Greece than for the people of Germany.
The Germans don’t want their money going to the bankers via the Greeks and the Greeks don’t want their livelihoods destroyed by the bankers via austerity, leaving them jobless, foodless and homeless.
Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
--Sun Tzu
on a more contempoary note. WAR FOOTAGE UKRAINE...Are you military? Speak Russian? Ukrainian? i need some help with the analysis.WARNING GRAPHIC DEPICTIONS OF DESTRUCTION AND DEATH. Watch this from about 14:24 second mark - for perhaps a minute – Lots of English including the word “kindergarten.” WHAT ACCENT IS THAT? UNIFORM WEAPONS OR ORDINANCE TELL YOU ANYTHING?
Also, near the beginning when they still driving around in the van, there’s a $100 dollar bill (or replica of one) hanging from the rear view mirror
What’s that all about? Any Idea? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsfGH8JXprE
Wake me when he is returning assets to the greek people and the greek people get off their asses. Much like south central L.A. this needs to be fixed from within, period.
passions of man. : /
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnu5uW9No8g
Take 6 hours to hear Germany's side of the story. This documentary has changed my view of the world more than anything else. Everything that has happened since WWII makes A LOT more sense after seeing this. The man who made it, Dennis Wise, grew up in the UK but his father fought for Germany.
History is always written by the victors. Currently it is ILLEGAL for Germans to denounce or even question their own history surrounding WWII. Since when does "truth" need to be protected by law?
This is my first post, but I've been following ZH for a long time. I've learned more about the global economy from reading the comments here than anything else. Many speak of the "tribe" and are aware of their influence over our world, The Greatest Story Never Told may show just how strong this influence is.
Thanks for that brief critique of "The Greatest Story Never Told" documentary. I have a copy of it on my system but haven't got round to watching it yet. Now I will during some free time coming up in a few weeks.
And welcome to ZH :-)
Great! It is very well made and the soundtrack is excellent. And thank you : )
The Greatest Story Never Told should be seen by every White Patriot. Others too.
this greek guy has bold moves
unfortunately he has no cash
Which PONZI SYSTEM has REAL ASSETS? The USSA is a broken ugly decaying EMPIRE as is the EU and UK. However, they SEEM to be MANAGING, DA?
Seems obvious. he is going to leverage German reparations to debt relief. GREAT!!!!!
Ha Ha. Adolph Merkel. Russia waiting with a counter offer and they know it. Greece goes straight from Euro-poodledom to Putin's Eurasian Economic Collective.
ZATO reaps what it sows!
Nothing like a little symbolism over substance to send a message. Mr.Panos says there's a new "Sheriff" in town, and we ain't paying no stinkin' debt to the Huns up North.
www.traderzoo.mobi
Death to all Nazis!*
*Nazis can make out cheques to
Office of the President
Presidential Palace
Athens, Greece
The Greeks are entitled to war repariations. Germany should pay off all their debts. Good Luck wit dat
I could care less what the Greek does. I care a whole lot more about House Frau Merkel Shaming her people, by groveling to the Tribe over what she and no one alive in her nation today, had Anything to do with. Considering what took place in the former Soviet Union, Mao Tse Tung's Great Leap Backward and the rape of Nanking by the Japs, the 'Nazi-war-crimes-Uber-Alles' meme is far beyond being 'long in the tooth'. It is a 'shameless' Propaganda tool that allows certain people to plunder behind the scenes, as they have done since the Treaty of Versailles.
My Uncle died in a camp. He fell out of the tower.
BIS was formed to "facilitate" reparation payments. Now it facilitates centralized world control of banking. Once the central bankers have control, thier leverage encompasses everything,
From Versailles reparations to Special Drawing Rights, the unbroken rainbow of the theft of the world’s currency has been directed by the FRB/ IMF/BIS/FSB (Financial Stability Board). These globalists work at night to destroy the peoples of the world, all international good intentions and the progress of humanity … for their own filthy, greedy global government.
The Bank of International Settlement (BIS) was formed in 1930 and originally was intended to facilitate reparation payments imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles after the First World War (Wikipedia) and “since 2004, the BIS has published its accounts in terms of Special Drawing Rights, or SDRs, replacing the Gold Franc as the bank's unit of account. As of March 2007[update] (end of month) the bank had total assets of $409.15 billion, given a dollar/SDR exchange rate of 1.51 for March 30, 2007. Included in that total is 150 tons of fine gold.”
(Germany made its last reparations payment for World War I on Oct. 3, 2010 settling its outstanding debt from the 1919 Versailles Treaty. )
The main actors in the establishment of the BIS were the then-Governor of the Rothschild-controlled Bank of England Montagu Norman, international financier, and his German counterpart Hjalmar Schacht, later Adolf Hitler's finance minister.
"The Versailles Dictate cannot be an eternal document, because not only its economic, but also its spiritual and moral premises, are wrong." -- Hjalmar Schacht
The BIS Board of Directors 1
Chairman: Christian Noyer, Paris
Mark Carney, London
Agustín Carstens, Mexico City
Luc Coene, Brussels
Jon Cunliffe, London
Andreas Dombret, Frankfurt am Main
Mario Draghi, Frankfurt am Main
William C Dudley, New York
Stefan Ingves, Stockholm
Thomas Jordan, Zurich
Klaas Knot, Amsterdam
Haruhiko Kuroda, Tokyo
Anne Le Lorier, Paris
Fabio Panetta, Rome
Stephen S Poloz, Ottawa
Raghuram Rajan, Mumbai
Alexandre A Tombini, Brasília
Ignazio Visco, Rome
Jens Weidmann, Frankfurt am Main
Janet L Yellen, Washington
Zhou Xiaochuan, Beijing
As for reparation plunder:
In a Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany signed on September 10, 1952, “reparations would become a decisive part of Israel's income, comprising as high as 87.5% of the state income in 1956,” according to Wikipedia.
Later, “on behalf of US citizens, the US Foreign Claims Settlement Commission reached agreements with the German government in 1998 and 1999 to compensate Holocaust victims who immigrated to the US after the war...
“In 2009, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz announced that he will demand a further 450 million to 1 billion Euros in reparations from Germany on behalf of some 30,000 Israeli forced labor survivors. Israel has also sought large discounts on the purchase of two German-built MEKO warships.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany
The U.S. Senate on November 20, 2010, approved, by unanimous consent, a measure to repeal the sunset of an exclusion from federal income tax for restitution received by Holocaust victims.
There were an estimated 88,000 Holocaust survivors in 2010 when the tax cut would have sunset. Exempting Holocaust payments will cost $3 million in federal tax revenues for 2012, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.
We see now that the holocaust industry is a rent seeking vehicle.
Humanity needs to reject rent-seeking in all its forms. Predators should not be allowed to steal in order to live on others. This is inherently parasitic behavior.
A religion or thought construct that encourages and rewards parasitism should be rejected, as it encourages man to be an animal. All claims of superiority aside, it is anything but superior.
Here are the criteria for perpetual victimhood, this in order to steal and take rents of the energy and labor value of others:
http://www.jfcs.org/services/seniors/services-for-holocaust-survivors/reparation-and-financial-aid
What you referenced is incredible. The reparations that Germans pay to Jews are consistently being expanded to include more and more individuals, including babies in utero of their Jewish mothers at the time., i.e., an addttional generation of victims entitled to reparations. For some time now, the reparations have gone beyond the concentration camp categories to include factory workers and ghettos* dwellers throughout Europe, as far away as Budapest.
Here’s the list of the expanded qualifications that you referenced:
Reparations and Financial Aid | Jewish Families and Children’s Services of San Franciso, The Penisula, Marin and Sonoma Counties
JFCS continues to provide assistance with reparations applications to Holocaust survivors who may qualify for:
GG12: Claims Conference Home Care Program –Through this new fund, survivors may be eligible for home care services provided by JFCS' Seniors•At•Home program. Contact Seniors•At•Home intake department at 415-449-3700.
ZRBG Pension – Survivors who lived and worked in Nazi-controlled ghettos may be eligible for ongoing pensions from the German government. The definition of "work" is being broadly interpreted by the German courts. Survivors who prepared meals, swept streets, cleaned homes, worked in factories (outside of the ghetto but were forced to return to it at night), and performed other tasks are encouraged to apply. Widows and widowers of those who lived and worked in ghettos are also encouraged to apply.
GGWP Ghetto Compensation Fund – Ghetto survivors may be eligible for a one-time payment of 2,000 euros (about $2,500) for “non-coerced” work during the period they lived in Holocaust-era ghettos. The Shanghai Ghetto is included in this program, and the application is short. Germany has signed an order ending the prior deadline and will continue to allow survivors who did “voluntary” ghetto work to apply for compensation under the German Ghetto Work Program.
Hardship Fund –
Hardship Fund Area Expanded – A one-time 2,556 euros sum (about $3,200) may be paid by this Claims Conference-managed program for certain Jewish Nazi victims from Eastern Bloc countries meeting eligibility criteria. (Prior Hardship Fund recipients may not re-apply.)
As of January 1, 2012, victims who may now be eligible include those who fled between June 22, 1941, and January 27, 1944, from areas of the Soviet Union that were generally up to 100 kilometers from the most easterly advance of the German army (Wehrmacht) but were not later occupied by the Nazis. They include Jews who fled from Moscow and Stalingrad during these dates. Eligible victims also include those who fled Leningrad after June 22, 1941, but before the siege that commenced in September 1941.
Unborn Victims – Germany has clarified that the Hardship Fund will process applications from applicants who were in utero at the time of their mother’s persecution.
Article 2 Fund –
Article 2 Fund Liberalization – The Article 2 Fund is a Claims Conference-managed reparation fund providing ongoing monthly payments—paid quarterly—to eligible Holocaust survivors. The Claims Conference has again negotiated reduced eligibility requirements for receiving a monthly pension of 300 euros (about $380) through the Article 2 Fund. New rules now include victims who lived in ghettos, in hiding, or under false identity in Nazi-controlled areas for 12 months. It also includes Nazi victims who were in concentration camps for even very short periods.
New Article 2 Fund Category – Eligible survivors 75 years of age and older who were in a ghetto between three and 12 months may be entitled to a special monthly pension of 240 euros (about $300). This liberalization now allows inclusion of those who endured the Budapest Ghetto—the last major group of ghetto survivors who have yet to receive pensions.
Article 2 Fund programs are open to survivors who are not getting German B.E.G. fund payments (Wiedergutmachung) and meet eligibility guidelines.
Those previously denied should request a claim re-opening for re-evaluation under the new criteria.
Free application assistance is available, and survivors are encouraged to contact JFCS to obtain more information or to schedule an appointment for assistance. Our multilingual staff can provide assistance in English or Russian.
http://www.jfcs.org/services/seniors/services-for-holocaust-survivors/re... http://www.jfcs.org/services/seniors/services-for-holocaust-survivors/reparation-and-financial-aid’
*Jewish ghetto defined: A Jewish quarter is the area of a city traditionally inhabited by Jews in the diaspora. Jewish quarters, like the Jewish ghettos in Europe, were often the outgrowths of segregated ghettos instituted by the surrounding authorities.
Now individuals in utero to Jewish mothers are classified as holocaust victims to qualify for German reparations?
Now in utero individuals of German mothers during World War II will be paying reparations.'
It's a whole new generation of payers and payees. Is it because one group owns the Fed and one doesn't?
From an earlier post of yours, the board of BIS, originally founded to deal with reparations, includes Janet Yellen.
Russia not on the list.
I suppose one could argue that a nation that supports Neo-Nazis in the Ukraine could use a little cold water on the face.
Obama does the same thing by constantly stoking the fires of racial antagonism. Birds of a feather!
Vat a douche. A sozialist douche.
It's very simple: the Germans were trying to save us from our present predicament. The Greeks got in their way. . . thanks to the Italians.
One of the more moronic postings on ZH lately. What's the message? Greece's economic plight is/was caused by Nazis? Merkel is a Nazi because she prefers that borrowed money is actually paid back?
Any other global economic problems the Germans need to apologize for? How about Russia? What have they done for world prosperity lately?
Grow up Tyler and STOP this blatantly populist crap...
This is less about WWII and more about giving the finger to the predatory international banking cartel.