This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Nuclear Specter Returns: "Threat of War Is Higher Than In The Cold War"
Authored by Markus Becker via Der Spiegel,
The Ukraine crisis has dramatically worsened relations between NATO and Russia. With cooperation on nuclear security now suspended and the lack of a "red telephone," experts at the Munich Security Conference warn any escalation in tensions could grow deadly.
The scientists had no idea that their experiment could spell the end of civilization. On Jan. 25, 1995, Norwegian and American researchers fired a rocket into the skies of northwestern Norway to study the Northern Lights. But the four-stage rocket flew directly through the same corridor that American Minuteman III missiles, equipped with nuclear warheads, would use to travel from the United States to Moscow.
The rocket's speed and flight pattern very closely matched what the Russians expected from a Trident missile that would be fired from a US submarine and detonated at high altitude, with the aim of blinding the Russian early-warning system to prepare for a large-scale nuclear attack by the United States. The Russian military was placed on high alert, and then President Boris Yeltsin activated the keys to launch nuclear weapons. He had less than 10 minutes to decide whether to issue the order to fire.
Yeltsin left the Russian missiles in their silos, probably in part because relations between Russian and the United States were relatively trusting in 1995. But if a similar incident occurred today, as US arms expert Theodore Postol warned recently, it could quite possibly lead to nuclear catastrophe.
Deep Mistrust
"Five or six minutes can be enough time, if you have trust, if you have communication and if you can put this machinery immediately to work," former Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov said on the sidelines of last weekend's Munich Security Conference. Unfortunately, he argued, this machinery works very poorly today, and there is great mistrust.
When asked what would happen today if the 1995 missile incident happened again, Ivanov responded, "I cannot be sure if the right decision would be taken."
Deep mistrust has developed between the West and Russia, and it is having a massive effect on cooperation on security matters.
In November 2014, the Russians announced that they would boycott the 2016 Nuclear Security Summit in the United States. In December, the US Congress voted, for the first time in 25 years, not to approve funding to safeguard nuclear materials in the Russian Federation. A few days later, the Russians terminated cooperation in almost all aspects of nuclear security. The two sides had cooperated successfully for almost two decades. But that is now a thing of the past.
Instead, Russia and the United States are investing giant sums of money to modernize their nuclear arsenals, and NATO recently announced that it was rethinking its nuclear strategy. At the same time, risky encounters between Eastern and Western troops, especially in the air, are becoming more and more common, a report by the European Leadership Network (ELN) recently concluded.
"Civilian pilots don't know how to deal with this," explains ELN Chair Des Browne, a former British defense minister. "One of these incidents could easily escalate. We need to find a mechanism in which we can talk at the highest level."
Brown, together with Ivanov and former US Senator Sam Nunn, the grandfather of international disarmament policy, published an analysis last week. The trio recommends "that reliable communication channels exist in the event of serious incidents." In other words, these channels currently do not exist. Recently Philip Breedlove, the head of NATO Allied Command Operations in Europe, even called for a new "red telephone," alluding to the direct teletype connection established in 1963 between the United States and the Soviet Union after the Cuban missile crisis. A direct line had been set up between NATO and the Russian military's general staff in February 2013, but it was cut as a result of the Ukraine crisis.
'A Very Dangerous Situation'
"Trust has been eroded to the point of almost being destroyed," said Nunn. "You got a war going on right in the middle of Europe. You got a breakdown of the conventional forces treaty, you got the INF (Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces) treaty under great strain, you got tactical nuclear weapons all over Europe. It's a very dangerous situation."
In late January, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists set its "Doomsday Clock" to three minutes to midnight. The last time it was set to that time was in 1983, "when US-Soviet relations were at their iciest point," as the group of scientists explained. The only other time when the situation was even worse was in 1953, when the clock was set to two minutes to midnight. Unchecked climate change and the "nuclear arms race resulting from modernization of huge arsenals" pose "extraordinary and undeniable threats to the continued existence of humanity," the group's statement read.
The current rhetoric coming from the rivals in the East and West seems poorly suited to reducing the threat. "The Russian aggression is a direct threat to NATO," British Defense Secretary Michael Fallon said at the Munich Security Conference.
The situation is made more complicated by the fact that Russia's actions in Ukraine are difficult to define. With camouflage, trickery and deception, the Russians are applying the full arsenal of so-called hybrid warfare, from propaganda to cyber warfare and funding the separatists right up to clandestine military operations.
In Munich, Norwegian Defense Minister Ine Marie Eriksen Søreide demanded that Russia's aggression should be clearly identified as such. "And it goes without saying," she said, "that Article 5 of the NATO Treaty applies to such aggression." This means that if Russia were to attack a NATO member, in the way it is now intervening in Ukraine, all other member states would be required to enter the war to defend that country.
Higher Risks with Hybrid Warfare
"It (hybrid warfare) makes everything more dangerous," said Nunn, "It makes tactical nuclear weapons more dangerous, and it makes weapons material more dangerous." It is common knowledge that some of these weapons are also stationed in Germany. Up to 20 B61 aerial bombs, now being updated at great expense, are stored at the Büchel Air Base in the Eifel region of western Germany. They are under US command, but German Tornado fighter jets would drop the bombs in the event of a war.
When asked if hybrid warfare could raise the danger of nuclear weapons being used, US diplomat Richard Burt -- who, in his role as chief negotiator, helped put together the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or START, between the United States and the Soviet Union -- answered in the affirmative. "The simple answer is yes. Both American and Russian nuclear arms are essentially on a kind of hair-trigger alert. Both sides have a nuclear posture where land-based missiles could be authorized for use in less than 15 minutes." In the situation of hybrid warfare, he warns, "that is a dangerous state of play."
"In the Cold War, we created mechanisms of security. A huge number of treaties and documents helped us to avoid a big and serious military crash," says former Foreign Minister Ivanov. "Now the threat of a war is higher than during the Cold War."
- 29848 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -


Reviving a nuclear confrontation with the Russians has been a primary Neocunt project for over a decade.
After learning about the history of the ussr, I'm curious if the old game against the leaders of it, versus the leaders of Russia proper (actual Russians) won't work anymore.
I was in Omaha earlier in the week and caught a glimpse of an E-4B in a descent toward Offut. It's routine, I know, but it still gave me the heebie-jeebies. Perhaps I'll be back there when WWIII begins and be vaporized before I know what's happening.
Fucking stupidity
As if anyone could ever "win" a nuclear war..
just shut the fuck up..with this fucking bull shit
You are blinded by your concept of "winning". It is not a universally shared concept. There are people blowing themselves up to kill another, to make a point, that think they are winning.
If your aim is to reduce the global population to 500million I don't see how you "win" by any other means.
Why didn't they do it in 1945?
No international journalism. No internet. No cellphone cameras.
Why did they wait?
They needed to see whether Consumerist National Socialism or Communist Socialism was the better method for mass control. 1945-1990 was one big psychological experiment.
Now they know.
That's the scariest thought I've ever read on here.
Stopped reading after nuclear war was compared to unchecked climate change. Bunch of pseudo scientists gone nutzo if you ask me.
The American idiot better wake up soon!
If we don't have the collective will to volunteer and show up at the White House and the Capitol Building to show our discontent at a "game of chicken" that's never been played before those "6 minute" scenario(s) are all too real a probability of occurring.
Why?..
I said in an earlier post on GWs history lessons of our greatest ally that did the unthinkable to it's mentor and benefactor that in the 60's and 70's we may have hated the Soviet Union because of their strengths in opposition to our own, but that there was always respect. But no longer. I don't think that there are too many readers here that disagree with my assessment that what we did with Ukraine last year was unthinkable given where we've been and what we've already done in the Middle East in the last 14 years. This country and more importantly it's leaders are the most corrupt incompetent and maniacally dangerous of governments on the planet ever ! If we continue to give our passive approval through our collective silence the worst can and will happen!
Russia is rested, rebuilt and capable which is something the U.S. military can most definitely say is not it's strongest suit with the morale and bankruptcy of it's handlers. Remember Don Rumsfeld line about accepting the Army you have not the Army you want?... And that was 9 years ago when he uttered those words of how bad things were getting then! To make matters far worse. What the U.S. did in overthrowing it's cousin's government and annihilating it with American made weapons and "proxies" has only given them resolve and brought the Russians together unlike anything anybody has seen in the past 70 years.
America. God Night and Good Luck! You'll be needing it along with some rosary beads!
It is difficult to have a restful night if you are a child and read and hear of this nuclear weapon stuff in the news. There is terror and nightmares.
During the eaarly sixties I was about 12 when the Cuban missile crisis played out. That was the predominant worry for many, nuclear war. We had air raid warning sirens going off so we could practice what do when a nuke came our way. We were shown and told how destructive they can be. People were building bomb shelters.
As a kid, I took the threat seriously and was worried.
It is bad enough to worry about some clown walking around with a knife or gun looking to kill, at least a person has a chance. With nukes there is no mercy.
As a kid, I took the threat seriously and was worried.
CP
Ditto on your words. I'm the son of an F-8 Crusader pilot Vietnam era that said the two bodies of water you never wanted to buzz was either the Baltic or the Black and instilled in me at a very early age of how dangerous those threats were following the Cuban Missile crisis...
Just to show you how circus the atmosphere has gotten in the Nation's Capital?.. A famous Italian restaurant in Georgetown Cafe Milano is having a celebration next weekend... Not for the Academy Awards but for the actors in the movie "American Sniper". Yes you read that correctly... Because of it's box office appeal and nostalgia are so high for a psychopathic sharp shooter who just happened to also be a pathological liar in a war zone and occupation that his government created based on "lies" that indiscriminately killed millions in that Country.. All of Washington wants to celebrate with the star of that movie!...
Any "Chris Kyle" wannabes gettin ready for what the sequel to "American Sniper" will look like in the Donbass given our successes in Afghanistan and Iraq? If you catch my drift!
We've gone completely bat shit crazy in this Country!
i remember in '75 or '76... delivering the morning papers and reading the headlines about the cold war. it really harshed a person's mellow to read about the threat of nukes.
All I know is that, back in the '60's we were taught to hide under our desks. Even at six years old I knew that was ridiculous.
My most frightening moment of the 60's (when my dad was in his second year in Viet Nam) was the arrival of our ashen-faced school principal to our class room. I'd seen this before in Texas, California, Colorado, and now, again, in California. The principal came to the front of the class, walked down my row and came to my chair. (My heart stopped beating) Then turned to the kid next to me.
A month later he was forced to accept his father's medal of honor. (He had been an Air Force pilot that stayed with his plane to avoid an elementary school.)
My second most frightening was when some jackass decided to soil my undies at Lowrey AFB in Aurora/Denver Colorado. I was riding my bike to little league (I think I was about eight) across a field of bunkers when the tops slid back, an alarm started, and God knows how many missles rose up about five feet. To me there were thousands, but it was probably less than a dozen. I knew that the blast from those taking off would turn me into toast in seconds. All I could do was keep peddling that banana-seat Schwinn.
Got to the little league field on base and put it all behind me as a good little fascist.
Dad was a top flight mechanic...remember going to work with him at Buckley Field and he would tell the others what to prepare for. Alerons shot through, engines shot, tail section failure...all by the sound as they arrived. (Can't hear a fucking thing these days without hearing aids).
Back in the 60's there was a short list of about 12 people that were automatically activated to go to where the fuck ever. Dad and my "Uncle" Ray were on that list, Ray was a pilot (he still hasn't told me what he normally delivered, though he talks about supplies and shit. We, wife and I, monitor and actively check on him to make sure he's safe and not getting fucked over. He's 93, vet of WWII, Korea and Viet Nam officially, God knows what else he's a Vet of.) I've known this man my entire life (I'm 55) and he's told my wife of my pissing on him while he changed my diapers in Hawaii.
My Dad was overseas EVERY year of my youth. I was the most programmed, patriotic, blinded, enthusiatic supporter of our War Criminal Government from birth until 2008. (yeah, I didn't do LSD or any other drug in the 60's because they were anti-government per what I was told....and still don't do any because my drug of choice is a shitload of alcohol.)
This rant boils down to one thing, though. We have a War Criminal Government. It MUST be eradicated. Those involved MUST be executed. And we need to reinstitute the Constitution AS WRITTEN with a few modifications for Slavery.
Old Phart,
True that. 61 I am, and sometimes I believe we are damned. Greed is a need, that many feed. Hat off, bend to cough. Lights on, drones phoned. Buttons pushed, lives crushed. Nothing to see here, move on.
who needs a red telephone when you're 24/7 tapping the shit out of everything
Holy duplicate post Batman!
... except the communications of 'terrorists' such as the Copenhagen 'terrorist' - apparently.
"Unchecked climate change and the "nuclear arms race" lol....
You just can't kill this thing.... Now why do you suppose this was included in an article about the possibility of a nuclear confrontation? It has no connection to the article. Backdoor propaganda?
I guess we are supposed to fear global warming as much as nuclear winter. These assholes just won't have it any other way.
The entire article reeks of propaganda. Fear is a great motivator and the truth of this situation is unknown.
Just because something can be, means it should be.
Like the gas chambers built for holocaust. Bombs, artillery, germs that kill, rail guns, missiles, nukes and more, the sole purpose of all these devices is to kill human beings, many of them, instant genocide.
If one country had nukes and one didn't and they went to war and the country that had nukes used a few, at least one country's population may have an opportunity to survive. If neither had them, there is hope for both countries.
It is about time the people of this world demanded and had some sort of means to determine that all nukes and WMDs are destroyed, everywhere, now.
That would include USA, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Israel and which ever other country or entity may possess them. Screw the politicians and generals and their justifications and bullshit rationales.
Do you know what the big secret with nukes is? It's not how to build them. It is the fact that they work, and that cat is out of the bag. Given the types that rise to government given a long enough time of that government existing, that makes eradicating them something that is not going to happen as long as we have industrial civilization. Eradicate them all, and some psycho fuck will get dreams of dominating neighbors or the world or whatever with a new superweapon. We need to figure out how to live with them because of this.
I
m bankster
Latina lover? kisses
Do the church bells ring 15 minutes before the nukes hit, would like to put a final coffee on before getting under the table in the kitchen.
Nubian Lesbian? Sparx
You hate boyz/
Jesus.
To each their own
I enjoy watching a " Man & Woman" make love.
Love is special. I respect that feeling
lol. Well, I meant it like GEEzus...the comments here..and we are at the same place we were at when I was in high school. Even then I read the news and in my adolescent mind decided that we were not going to survive much longer so why get 'A's when you can have some fun whilst you can? Bad decision back then, I will never make that again. No matter what, "God"-Jesus-Buddha whatever you want to call it is watching every move you make.
I take comfort in that even though I mess up all the time.
have some fun whilst you can? Bad decision back then, I will never make that again. No matter what, "God"-Jesus-Buddha whatever you want to call it is watching every move you make.
I take comfort in that even though I mess up all the time.
You're misdirected.
I guess you're lucky.
A lot of us only have the comfort that NSA is fulfilling that role.
People can put Jesus down, but what they wrote about him describing the human condition and the Apocoplypse is a little too close to home. A century ago, mass murder was unthinkable on the scale possible by nukes. Because of that, probably many thought the Apocolypse being precipitated by humanity was impossible.
Now we know it is possible and maybe probable.
It is not well reported but Russia recently lost two Oko-1 (Eyes) satellites losing most of its missile early warning system. The Russian early warning system only works for 3 hours a day. It is hoped that Russia will replace its missile early warning system this summer. Think about it, Russia does not have an effective missile early warning system. http://www.russia-ic.com/society_politics/politics/2687/
That would make them even more trigger happy .... than during the KAL 007 days !
I believe they still have OTH Radar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIlOY8-XYkM
kinda interestin' revelation if not disinfo. wouldn' that offer window to west?
Those cockroaches in DC would thrive after a nuke attack, all those corpses to gnaw on and all. They've had enough practice.
ALL of this stems from the actions and designs of US NeoCons, who appear to making decisions, not Obama. They pose the greatest threat ever to humanity's survival. Almost everyone who is running for Pres. in 2012 is even more beholden to the NeoCons. Fear is justified.
bingo! the oligarchs/neocons and other elites have convinced themselves they alone will survive this madness and are the foundation of a new civilization. they must be eradicated before they get the rest of us vaporized.
The irony is that the oligarchs in New York and DC will be the prime targets. They are concentrated in a few zip codes. Those who created this unstable and irresponsible system will perish first.
I suspect that the same people who frontrun the markets probably can do the same for a spasm war.
I do feel bad for their maids and gardeners and security staff at the metropolitan residence.
I seriously considered running for public office..but couldn't stand working with such people.
Unfortunately, I'm not a psycopath.
I believe there are countless millions that have my mindset.
I'd vote for any one of them if they ever ran.
I, however, have no interest in telling anyone else how to run their lives. Nor do I have any desire to be cordial to people I work with that should have their throats slit.
So I'm not a politician.
(That and an FBI agent showed up on my doorstep over a posting that posed a question of who should be killed first, bankers or politicians.)
Yep, actually happened.
Done with fuckedbook effective 1/1/2015.
I've been done with Facefuck for a few years now. I still have an account, but the amount of time since I've logged into it is measured in years. And I believe that you had the FBI show up. You wouldn't be the first to have them show up because of that. One guy claims that he got a call from his local SO telling him to call some agent from the FBI to set up an interview appointment and that maybe he'd avoid a raid on his house because he posted something on facefuck that did not advocate a revolution, bur rather that he thought that one was coming. He said that they had his entire facefuck posting history.
And +1 on the not running for office. I would like to set things right, and If I really thought I could do it through political office I'd run, I've seen how politics works, I've talked to politicians who are actually decent who got out because of the BS, and have come to the conclusion that, even if it once had some virtues, it does not today.
It's important to understand the ramifixations of wedlock.
The IRS will make you pay taxes. Anywhere
Victoria Nukeland's time.
Life would go on .... we lost the dinosaurs .... life went on .... if only a few Ecoli and Ebola survived .... evolution would start all over .... we might get it right .... next time !
Wrong. Life requires input.
Quit being a pussy. Have some kids for me to tease?
Girls are a dime a dozen. Love is special
Putin input ?
You're drunk, aren't you?
My wife asked me to take February off. She took January off drinking.
You're pathetic. Get some rest.
Be thankful you're wife is leaving you. Any Children?
ETs don't allow newks anymore so that argument is mute. They will allow limited casuaties so long as the aftermath includes increased slavery of the population...and there's nothing any human can do about it. Sorry :(
Minus infinity for truth down voterz
it was Cheney and his new Nato policy which turned the heat, the missilies in those new Nato countries are ostensibly to defeat terrorist missiles from ISIS? they are nukes aimed at Moscows command and control, and they can reach their target in a few minutes. sure Putin is nervous. i am also certain that a missile strike on Moscow is less effective than a missle strike on DC, we have a lot more to lose.Russia is a big place and not dependent on instant communications and a unitary decider to make the country work. we have much more to lose. and Europe which is downwind.basically the rest of the world would be anxious to avoid a major escalation, so they would do their best to keep the initial damage to a minimum. the first strike would be a minor first event aimed at command and control, obomber and putin taking out each others capital. so you dont like whats going on washington? what me worry?.
More Muslims would die .... if Mossy Cow .... was bombed !
please tell me that ain't 2 guys in your avitar
I have never seens this guy/gay here before. He has two weeks under his belt. I wonder who he is trolling for.
H-A-S-B-A-R-A
A-D H-O-M-I-N-E-M A-T-T-A-C-K
Seems like you don't understand the meaning of the term. If anything it's a strawman, were it not blaringly true.
Is calling a garbage man "garbage man", a personal attack? What's his argument other than trolling?
The "A-D H-O-M-I-N-E-M A-T-T-A-C-K" argument is political correctness. "Oh, you are becoming personal now, how indecent". It is usually used by people who are losing the argument and need to find a way out.
Don't like personal confrontation? I suggest you don't debate then. We are on ZH, not on Oprah.
Fifty Shades of Stupid. ^
Stupid is as stupid does.
Listen, if someone gets 'personal' and calls you names and everything then that person shows he is a weak debater and already has lost the debate. But whining and say "A-D H-O-M-I-N-E-M A-T-T-A-C-K" is a sign of weakness as well. What do you want? That ZH moderators come and rescue and protect you from A-D H-O-M-I-N-E-M A-T-T-A-C-Ks? You want your mommy? Just ignore it.
How long should someone have to be a member before they are entitled to express an opinion other than yours?
They can say whatever they want. And so can I.
Don't you find it curious that there are people commenting on ZH only on matters related to Ukraine and that only have several weeks of ZH membership?
Newbees can make valuable contributions but trolls from either side are active here. There are other places for that such as CNN, RT and BI.
another *sshole heard from. you are the one on the bottom in your avatar. no doubt about that lmao
People don't seem to understand that the beauty of nukes is their ability to bypass the pawns and take out the king, queen and bishop. The clash of vast armies is now entirely irrelevant. In fact, only about half of the military bases in the U.S. would be relevant targets, the others which are merely glorified jobs corps centers would be ignored. In contrast, all U.S. bases outside the continental U.S. would be very high value targets due to their effective control of the nations in which they are placed as are all naval vessels.
There would be no point or reason at all for Russia to attempt a mass slaughter of U.S. civilians. All this nonsense about mass annihilation of civilian populations is just scare propaganda to condition the average joe in Peoria or Tulsa to support the oligarchy's war machine. The average taxpayer in the flyover areas of the U.S. has very little to fear, unlike those who live in Manhattan, around the DC beltway and a dozen or so other high impact zip codes in which the olgarchs who have stirred up this Russophobic storm live, work and play.
The war party in the U.S. consists of a small fraction of the population highly concentrated in specific areas. Russia and China know where they are.
On the other hand the U.S. oligarchs might perhaps be hate filled enough to attempt to slaughter the population of Russia. And while our U.S. oligarchs deserve to be targeted and I am certain that they are, I am equally certain that they think they can impose the duty of dying for ones country on the peasantry as in the past, and that they, somehow, will escape the cruel fire that awaits them.
I think the time has come for Siberia to become an independent state or to be taken under the wing of some other nation than Russia. It is a vast treasure house that is sucked dry. The people of Siberia should be the wealthiest inhabitants on the planet, but they clearly are not. So it is time for them to be under new management so they can finally achieve their rightful destiny.
no mate, this time they're going to fall on your hell hole the ussa.
it's about time a little blood was spillt amongst you exceptional amis.
you've been slaughtering people wholesale for a lot of years.
it's payback time. go f*ck yourself.
My post above presupposes rational Russian or Chinese military planning that above all else minimizes global radioactive fallout. Their objective would be to vaporize the existing power structure, including media, financial and political, and spare the rest. In effect, vaporizing the power structure would liberate all of the flyover areas - those states that would like to secede from the Union. The 99 percent only support our many wars because they are victims of massive propaganda and lies. But nothing quite clears the mind like the sight of nukes clearing the choice coastal properties where power is centered.
I sympathize with your sentiments, but I would suggest that nuclear strategy is very much about "killing the king" rather than "capturing the king" as both Sun Tsu and Clausewitz put forth as the ultimate objective of war.
Where do you think most of the Minuteman and other U.S. ground-based nuke silos were built and are still maintained today albeit in much lower numbers than at their height in the mid-80s?
Obviously, minute man silos are among the "relevant" military targets in the U.S. However these fixed targets, though hardened, are very vulnerable to bunker buster war heads with enough kinetic energy to penetrate deep into the ground. Fixed silos are a destabilizing factor because you either use them immediately on the slightest provocation or lose them, thus provoking a nuclear exchange in ways the mobile missiles and subs would not. Recognize however that these fixed missile silos are located away from towns and cities and can be destroyed without extensive civilian casualties.
You seem to miss the point that even a hand full of nukes would shut down the grid. No grid no cities.
The fragility of the grid, and the ensuing chaos its failure would create, is a potential asset to any nuclear attacker which essentially eliminates any need to use city busters beyond the few cities in which the media, financial and political power structures reside. I am sure that this is factored into their strategy.
Nice to see a treatment of "hybrid war", a treatment that is accurate and that discusses the most important implications.
Russia's invention of hybrid war is ingenous. They've studied the US and NATO carefully, watched them wage war, watched their defenses, and came up with a war strategy that exploits their weaknesses.
Love Putin or hate him, you have to give him credit for strategic and tactical military genious and for sticking it to the hypocrites that wage war of all kinds all over the planet but howl like stuck pigs whenever Russia pushes back and does so in a way they can't deal with effectively.
So if Putin goes after other states, maybe NATO members, like he's done in Ukraine, you can be sure he'll deny them the smokimg gun they need - he'll use proxies like he's done in Ukraine, special ops, etc and NATO will have a hard damn time justifying any war on Russia.
That's not to say such a war won't happen - I think it's inevitable. But The US and NATO have had their way for decades - now they're being warred upon in a way they can't handle.
Putin holds an important trump card which are the ethnic Russian minorities not only in Ukraine but in other Eastern European states as well. I don't think he really cares about them that much. They are just very useful and serve as a buffer and way to destabalize these countries over there. A full scale invasion is the last thing Vlad will do. He will just play covert games in these places. Not yet though, first this needs to play out in Ukraine. Actually, a permanent peace or autonomy/partition is not in his favor at this moment.
This is all theatre. You know darned good and well Putin, Obama, Merkel, and all the other fucktards probably are laughing their asses off over cocktails. Nuclear war isn't going to happen. Not now. Not ever. A whole lot of power and money being concentrated into the hands of World Rulers. The fuckers dont' want to enjoy their lives a Superstars and Celebrities in a fucking bunker.
You got it. Full scale nuclear war is bad for business. Like you said, theatre
Why don't you ask the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki it it won't ever happen.
Life must go on ? I thought there were millions of other Earth like planets ! I would rather see life end .... than to live in a Caliphate .... a true Planet of the Apes !
It's hard to imagine there not being jillions of Earth-like planets out there, but it's harder to imagine reaching even the closest among them considering no human has ever made it more than 400 miles from the earth's surface (apologies, Apollo fans).
I think everyone ought to welcome our newest zio-troll - Monetas. He has been with us for two weeks. Ahlan Monetas!
Watch it goy! Make believe he has us fooled, the zionist ego is a very fragile one.
Go long Russia. NWO can't do a damn thing. If they try same thing as in the 50s--toast. With the concentration of wealth the way it is in the West Russia and/or China only need hit under a hundred people and they've won.
My bets are all on Russia at this point. And, if I'm wrong YeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaa it won't matter anyhow bitchez.
Have you ever seen how Russians drive ?
huh wever never even seen your high school diploma....your ALLEGED HSD
"With the concentration of wealth the way it is in the West Russia and/or China only need hit under a hundred people and they've won."
Finally!!! A poster who gets it!!!
Actually it is closer to about 50k if you add in the administrative layer that runs the "machine" that the Oligarchs rule over. But again, a tiny fraction of the U.S. population that is concentrated in relatively few locations, but with considerable "collateral damage" to innocent populations in and around those areas.
Think of nuclear war as carefully targeted droning but with very big and powerful weapons.
But but but.....they told me when I was a kid back in the 60's that I had to get under my WOODEN desk if russia nukes us. My desk would protect me! They probably scared the crap out of the other classmates, but I was under my desk flirting with the girl next to me (her name was Mary), and teliing her we should kiss before we die...
It actually worked but I got in lots of trouble because of it.
If nuclear armed powers, especially China and Russia, openly announced that Israel would be the first nuked in retaliation for any nuke strike upon them from any and all sources, that would be the end of the specter of nuclear war.
The banksters need to repay us.
China and Russia have great respect for Israel .... it's a world class technological economy .... they would boycott Palestine .... but the Palestinians don't really make anything !
A high tech criminal syndicate.
A Russian bank was just hacked for $300 - $900 million bucks .... are you accusing my Joos .... thanks for the compliment ! LOL
A Russian bank was just hacked for $300 - $900 million bucks .... are you accusing my Joos .... thanks for the compliment ! LOL
Monetas<I'm calling you out? I call bullshit on your claims!
COME PLAY WITH ME mONETAS!
i TELL THE TRUTH!
No they are not smart enough-it was probably the CIA --- gotta link or you are lying
Yes -made high tech by stealing an d plundering the best America has to be stolen. The Zionists and International banksters own Wall Street, all three branches of our federal government and almost the entirety of the mainstream media. This has created a very dangerous situation as these criminals now believe they are in a position to take it all on their way to their NWO. Madmen -Luciferians.
The commodity currencies are rising
Only becuase Israel keeps stealing more and more of their land. Cant set up an industry, if you are bulldozed off it in a month
"In Munich, Norwegian Defense Minister Ine Marie Eriksen Søreide demanded that Russia's aggression should be clearly identified as such. "And it goes without saying," she said, "that Article 5 of the NATO Treaty applies to such aggression."
Reminds me of some dialogue in an old western,
"Bold talk for a one eyed fat man." Or Fat Frau in this case.
hey Ine, go home, raise a family, cook your family a nice meal. get the f*ck out of things you don't understand.
"This means that if Russia were to attack a NATO member, in the way it is now intervening in Ukraine, all other member states would be required to enter the war to defend that country."
Planners of false flag operations already know this.
Dont be so stupid-it is the US and EU who are meddling in the Ukraine-how can you be so goddamn dumb?
I think you need to re-read and rethink my post.
Will the human race ever learn from history?
War just does not work out for the 99%, it only works for the evil war profiteers and banksters who start them.
Can't we all just get along?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGpwKQo5_Z0
Not until the banksters are put down. They will never stop voluntarily, that much is clear.
Preach it, sistah.
The war has already started, in Denmark...another 2 jihady style showdowns followed by a manhunt.
#Copenhagen Terror Attack 2 dead
One shot dead at freedom of speech event Another killed at Jewish temple Man killed by police ‘was behind both attacks’ Danish PM: ‘a cynical act of terror against Denmark’ Read the latest summary Full report: Danish police kill man after two deadly…
latest:
http://tersee.com/#!q=Copenhagen&t=text
It is forbidden to picture The Prophet.
Most folks know this is why Muslims have created beautiful tile and geometric art works. You can even see them in Spain in the South, and in S. America, where many soldiers had been recruited from southern provinces. However, the west has a Free Press history. Muslims do not have to look at artwork or cartoons if they do not want to. To establish this censorship in the west is wrong.
Islam has many prohibitions along these lines. The intent is to prevent idol (false gods) worship and the conflating of Rasulallah (PBUH) with Allah (SWT). Likenesses of anyone are not permitted where prayer is conducted.
I would argue the West has long lost respect for anything or respect from anyone.
Sam Nunn is no idiot, so this is disconcerting.
The question is why are EU leaders allowing the US to place Europe in danger of WW3, without raising a whimper of protest? In Britain, Prime Minister Cameron is pushing for war with his agressive approach to Russia, but there is no opposition. Are all our politicians insane, cowards or just blackmail victims?
The people can no longer influence their leaders who are deep in the pockets of the corporate banking criminals. Will no-one speak up for peace?
Cameron is full of shit. The UK is no threat to Russia, the navy doesn't exist anymore, the army has been cut to 80k and the RAF is relegated to stopping Russian bombers entering UK air space. The UK nuclear deterent (TRIDENT) can't even be launched without US permission.
Because it is easy, like some punk in a fight begging his friends to "hold me back so I don't kill this fool". When in reality he's scared shitless. So too is all of Europe.
The U.S. is the provocateur of this escalation/war from across the other side of the Atlantic. Meanwhile the Ukranians and European nations are being used as chattel and fodder.
Like all wars the common man (now woman as well) is the one who is used to kill each other for the pleasure of the Elites over some contrived cause.
When will people get it? The elites supply, arm, and fund both sides and profit mightily from it including gaining the whole of the earth from this global game of three card Monty.
I traveled pretty extensively and I have found that all people are basically /want the same things in life so It would seem to me that the greatest manner in which humanity could achieve a vibrant and lasting peace is to rid their own country and all of the world of the Elites and all of their genetic lines. For as long as they shall exist there will be no peace.
There is certainly a breakdown in trust between NATO and Russia and as the author says this could lead to a disasterous nuke war. But he fails to assign responsibility for this dangerous state of affairs, so it is just another article describing the problems but failing to assign blame for them.
Who is responsible for this breakdown? Not Russia. Who instigated the violent coup in Ukraine? Not Russia. Who had feet on the ground in Kiev to stir it all up? Not Russia. Who employed snipers to kill innocent people? Not Russia. Who parachuted in a puppet fascist government in Ukraine? Not Russia. Which countries want to install NATO in Ukraine to line up missile batteries on its border with Russia? Obviously not Russia. Who shot down MH-17? Not Russia. Who repeatedly presents falsified evidence of Russia's so-called invasion of Ukraine with columns of tanks and foot soldiers? Obviously not Russia. It goes on and on.
There is a systematic program being rolled out to demonise Putin/Russia to justify ever more draconian sanctions to destroy its economy and prepare the way for overthrowing Putin.
Whichever which way this Ukraine mess is cut, full blame for it lies in Washington (CIA & State, including neo-con dual passport holders who appear to be running American foreign policy)/Westminster/EU-Brussels and NATO (now run by the mad dog Stoltenberg).
It is a crises of THEIR making and deliberately so. There is clearly a deliberate intention to throw away all the safety mechanisms of trust between Russia and the West and create a new Cold War. Or worse; ratcheting up the tensions with Russia in preparation for undermining Putin and stirring up yet another fake "color-revolution" to carry out regime change, parachute in yet another puppet to seize control of its natural resources wealth, impose the corrupt Western banking system (Wall Street & Bolshevik Revolution II anybody?) and to absorb Russia before the Anglo-American Empire and its Master move on to the ultimate target: China.
Putin & Russia are doing what any government would do, faced with such grave threats to its security and very existence from outside adversaries.
You would think each side would have learned from the collosal economic waste of 80s and the warheads buildup along with all of the money either side wasted on new delivery and targeting systems along with new launch platforms. U.S. projections are a tad over $350B on the nuclear arsenal over the next ten years and that is just the stuff officially on the books. Unbelievable waste of time, money, and incredibly smart people.
Because each side has burned through their "peace dividend", and they've picked their people's pockets dry. Got to get another Cold War going...
The first Cold War followed on after WWII. All the senior officials really understood what serious war meant and the likely consequences for themselves and their families of any misjudgement that triggered a war.
Now the West is governed by people who have no sense of that, and in most cases no personal experiece of being in combat. They think it is some sort of game or movie and you and your country can't really get killed.
Cold War II is likely to be more dangerous that Cold War I.
"They think it is some sort of game or movie and you and your country can't really get killed."
Bingo!!
Well if we go nuclear, it will be time to prove that Aliens exist or not.
Those same Aliens saying that will stop and deactivate with their advanced technologies any nuclear warhead before launching...
If not, just pray.
Look like John Titor's prediction will come true after all...
Aliens... Humans have a funny and timeless habit of creating mythologies to explain that which they cannot fully fathom.
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes , Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died
In a very perverse way- Gruber was right... while they are not any smarter or more reasoned, and they are handicapped by their egotism, they do, however, know (possesses awareness) of far more than the useless idiots they created, and this impacts both their reason and their dialogue.
A while back I need to know how to correctly spell some guy's name - rather than dig through countless dusty file boxes of papers too ancient to be maintained in proper file cabinets, I went to the Google-bot and plugged in my name correctly spelled, his name how I though it was spelled, and bunch of keywords to reduce the irrelevant garbage. What did the Google-bot kick back? -- the very first link was from Wikileaks - and diplomatic cable from some backwoods shithole to the Ministry of Peace (which is actually much larger than the Ministry of Truth) about some how some local shit was going to play out over the next few years in that backwoods shithole. Everybody knows that every time we sit down with a Diplomat or Spook-- shit gets run up the line, that's the way the game is played, but Everybody plays it every day, and the volume of "knowledge" that is fed into the beast 24/7/365 was almost unfathomable, even before the NSA's budget and analytical abilities exploded in the 21st century.
Truth can be esoteric, but that does not mean that Truth cannot be attained without initiation.
Forget everything you know (or don't know) about Hegelian and Marxist dialectics, because there is a far more relevant dialectic to 20th and 21st century human civilization - the Elite Dialectic.
The Elite Dialectic is also a synthesis, but it is a synthesis of two distinct, divergent and dialogic discussions- the initiated/elite discussion and the uninitiated/public discussion. The Elite Dialectic most often occurs in the realms of finance, foreign and military policy interactions and dialogue. Everybody knows the Elite Dialectic, even if only subconsciously or by a different name (perhaps Diplo-speak, but fluency is an order of magnitude above proficiency, and even in one's mother tongue, not everyone can fully fathom Bacon or Goethe).
Go back and read Berspankme's Congressional testimony - the warnings to politicians regarding fiscal policy and the limitations of monetary policy are all there. They may be ignored, but his ass is covered. Go back and read Putin's major speeches since the colored revolutions and the 2008 Ukrainian and Georgian crises. Go back and read US-Iranian sanctions statutes, regulations, and announcements since 1984, the reasons and excuses given to the public evolve time from state-sponsorship of terrorism to nuclear power/weapons containment, but the mechanisms and substance are all about economic containment, isolation, and wealth transfer and control, the same as Ukraine and Georgia and the FRB.
Everybody knows it's actually a very big Club.
If it bleeds, we can kill it.
We are soooo screwed.
Got so damn angry, I double posted
Reading these comments, people just feed right into this bullshit. There's NOT going to be a nuclear war, EVER. Just keeping the fear factor as high as possible, with ZH doing its part whenever it can. They're all on the same team. How bout we talk about that instead? Ya know, something that really matters and should be occupying space in our brains, not fake nukes.
Take it easy bro, it's just the daily click bait to bring out the paranoids and doomers.
You're an idiot.
Go fuck yourself, you empty headed stooge.
Sure thing sport. Lord knows I've dished out my share of GFYs on this site.
Frikkin Cheese on Christmas.
The "Smartest guys in the world" are going to pop off a 4 stage rocket next to Russia and nobody thought a phone call to the Kremlin first might be a good idea?
Not only are we overdue for a near extinction event, we damn well deserve one.
FALS FLAGS,....a dangerous game
A few hours of research on Charlie Hebdo makes it glaringly apparent that the deep state was involved. The film footage of the police officer supposedly shot in the head at point blank, while lying on the sidewalk, was quickly extirpated by the mainstream media. With millions of views on YouTube in just two days, it was censored. In the West, our masters have learned that the alternative press is like low grade interference. It is too scattered and diffuse to cause critical mass. But when something like the censored Charlie Hebdo hoax assassination goes viral in a matter of hours, then it can become a threat to the official narrative, and often gets censored. On alternative websites, it’s still there. Break out the popcorn and beer, boys and girls, and watch crisis actors help dupe the world.
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/
I marvel at the speed with which the anti-USSR hysteria of a generation ago has been resurrected, Lazarus-like, over the last 18 months or so. All of a sudden the West is filled with bellicose anti-Russian chickenhawks. Hell hath no fury like a non-combatant. Don't these Boobus armchair warriors have any draft age children? In a world where alternative media trumps MSM propaganda (but I repeat myself) seven ways from Sunday I really wonder how they manage to maintain the feeling that they're not being played. I know Cog Dis would have a cogent explanation but it wouldn't make me feel any better about humanity in its present state. I am concerned about the world into which I've brought children, one of them nearing draft age.
We're all goin' to die eventually, so what difference does it make? Nuk, nuk, nuk....
I think there is a ways to go before nukes start being thrown. A long way. I remember being taught to dive under my skool desk for safety.
The stupid n*gger in the White House may just destroy everything. The hell of it is, it will likely survive. The brown and black countries will likewise survive, as no one would waste a nuke on them.
The Magic Negro, if it's any comfort, doesn't make any of the real decisions. He's the good-looking front man for Wall Street whose rolecwas to get low-information females to vote for him in the hope that they would sleep with him.
The brown and black countries will be decimated by the breakdown of industrial civilization as well. Their population explosion was the result of gifts from the white man, and will collapse when the gifts are taken away. Nothing will grow in Africa during a nuclear winter either.
Niall, he's also the very carefuly chosen "Fall Guy".
Was reading comic book last night. Wtachman from 1986. Comedian references that the nuclear bombs will be flying within 30 years, It all a joke, Subliminals have always been here. We are fucked. Big joke. :(
The return to a balance of power OUT IN THE OPEN can NEVER make a world more dangerous for long.
What was dangerous was the Pax Americana play in UNILATERAL hubris that created the malignant cancer in the ME as elsewhere, of Oligarchy inspired rampage enslaving an "outsourced to slave labour arbitration world" tied to a rotten and financialised 0.1% profit making cabal, under the "big stick" MIC umbrella of its political minions.
The emergence of a counter empire and of an alternative geo-politcal construct is a healthy thing in this unhealthy world.
But, that this emergence is done in the context of a race to bottom by competing corrupt Oligarchies is the SIGN OF THE TIMES. However, the limiting factor to the underlying "Dr Strangelove conundrum" in this ominous and sinister evolution is the "no survivors" reach of Oppenheimer's toy. You play with Doomsday machines at your own risk!
The fact that the game in now NOT unilateral and it is more and more OUT IN THE OPEN is a healthy thing.
As the world can see now under the eye of the Internet the hype and lies that each side invents to protect its vested interest. We all have to be first and foremost PRO FACTS and pro Transparent acts with accountability for the Elected of "democratic" first world.
Transparency and whistle blowing stays common Man's only weapon today for democracy to be meaningful.
But Tomorrow if they Censure the Net and stifle the whistle blower, we will have truly regressed into autocracy.
Oligarchy obscurantism or State obscurantism is not dead, far from it, if anything it grows and is the twin challenge to this century's children, along with Planet destruction of a corrupt industrial hyper consumerist paradigm.
We need an age of new heroes.
Or is the US analogous to Saddam (with the analgous world approaching a precipice of "global Balkanization") in the wake of our undoing via unwitted conquest?
Now remember children, "We didn't build them to not use them". Don't recall the idiot that said that but pretty sure he's from the US, lol.
Gotta love the nuclear scientists and their "Bulletin" with the clock set to nearly midnight. They are the assholes who have devoted their whole lives to inventing nuclear weapons in the first place.
Time to watch the classic movie "Dr. Strangelove, or How I learned to stopped worrying and love The Bomb."
Great humor/satire about the cold war era, loaded with irony! An all-star cast, too.
These are the facts:
Everyone meddled in Ukraine: US, Russia, and the EU. EVERYONE.
Or what do you think Yanukovich's agreement to enter the Commonwealth after RUNNING ON THE PROMISE NOT TO DO SO was all about?
Everyone meddled in Ukraine. Everyone had their reasons. Everyone has their justifications.
It is about control of Europe through energy. Europe has been trying to diversify their energy supplies to reduce the influence of each. They know that a 'United States of Europe' is not viable if someone can crash their economy at will. This is what Nabucco, and a wide variety of pipeline arrangements over the last 15 years have been about.
Russia sees this as a threat. Their production cost is high, and they don't want to compete. They see energy sales to Russia as a their sovereign privilege and Europes' desire for options as a threat to Russian security.
If Russia can control - CONTROL not influence - the Black Sea basin then there are no potential routes for cheap energy to reach Europe, and Russia can set the price of energy in Europe - and effective wealth transfer mechanism from those who build in Germany and France to those who pump in Russia and central Asia.
Europe knows this, hence the repeated and growing calls for an EU Army (which would in fact replace NATO). Hence EU meddling in Ukraine.
The US knows this, and knows its status - as well as stable world wide trade, and competition via non-violent means as opposed to violent means - are dependent on Europe NOT re-arming. Hence 'Fuck the EU'. Hence, choosing a parade-leader to lead the Ukrainian Maidan Parade, and funding them such that they can remain at the head of the Ukrainian pack.
Saudi Arabia and the gulf countries know this, and are the primary alternate energy suppliers to Europe - hence the Syria, Libya, and ISIS fiascos, as well as 'low oil' - because it hurts Russia more than it hurts SA, Europe or the US. They get to kill two birds with one stone... both their peer production competitors Russian energy AND the US alternative oil industry.
The US's best position SHOULD have been to shrug and let Eurasia tear itself apart. Given the low birth rate, and the INEVITABLE RESULTING MASSIVE WAR IN EUROPE, the Chinese and North Africans would then take over Europe. The US would then be in a position to play nice-nice with both.
How stupid to you have to be to step between a suicide and the gun he points at his own head? Down the roads chosen by both the EU and Russia there is no EU or Russia. The birth rate is too low to kill off their young in a war and still survive as societies.
Why did they intefere in the suicide? Tradition... and excessive control of the US elites by the Rothschilds and their allies through the banking establishment.
This viewpoint so many present, pretending that one or two sides are irredeemable devils, while the other the purest angels is not reality, and has never been reality for any conflict anywhere at any time in all of human history. It is a cartoon for blinding children's minds to the truth.
It doesn't really matter who you think the angels are, Russian angels, American angels, European angels, Arab angels, or Israeli angels.
Men are not angels. If they were there would be no reason to make up such children's stories.
How do you identify a Japanese at an airport?
Turn out the lights.
What is Japanese shine.
Maybe in a few months all shine.
hehe.
The world needs a "re-set"...
Is this for real or a psy-op?
Kolomoysky: Sorry about the MH17 – but it is a trifle – ENG SUBShttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrfKZUttEwE
It seems remarkable if it is true.
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/13/russian-war-propaganda-threatens-i...
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/13/lithuanian-leader-minsk-much-worse...
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/02/14/minsk-wests-useful-idiots/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact
80 years later the history is repeating: Russia invades neighbouring countries and signs treaties to keep the territories. This is only a pause in its territorial expansion.