This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
How Germany Is Blowing Up The European Union
Submitted by Raul Ilargi Meijer via The Automatic Earth blog,
As Germany is set to reject a Greek loan extension request (and no, international press, that is not the same as an extension of the bailout program), Steve Keen uses proprietary numbers issued by the OECD – which is supposed to be on Germany’s side?! – to show how dramatically austerity has failed in Europe- that is, if the recovery of the Greek and Spanish economies was ever the real target. It certainly failed the populations of the countries.
The problem is that nobody, not even the OECD can for Germany to answer to a report. But that does not make the case that is made, any less obvious, or bitter for that matter. Not many people remain ready to think that Greece will do what it has said it will, but I think they have been very consistent in their stated goals, and people get distracted too much by semantics at their own peril.
As Steve shows, and Syriza proclaims, more of the same is not on the table, for good reason. It will and can only make matters worse for Greece. Germany – and the ECB – choose to entirely ignore the consequences of their theories, in particular the humanitarian crisis they have caused in Greece. And any political union that ignores the misery it unloads upon its citizens has a short shelf life.
I see a majority voices out there claiming that Syriza is busy capitulating, but I don’t think that. They’ve always said they are willing to go far to reach consensus with Brussels in order to stay in the EU and eurozone. And that’s what they’re showing. In the world of political dealing and scheming, the Greeks have been remarkable consistent; so much so that this is itself leads people to claim they are not.
But I still wouldn’t rule out the possibility that Varoufakis has long come to the conclusion that the eurozone must and will implode no matter what anybody does, and that he’s simply jockeying for the best position when the time comes to leave the eurozone.
Germany’s bullying- which is how its actions are being perceived by fast growing numbers of people – will come back to hurt it. The eurozone is made up of independent nations, most with their own specific culture and their own language. Trying to browbeat them all into submission, and yes, that is where Germany’s stance is leading, will only lead to much bigger trouble.
But first, it’s still ‘merely’ and economic issue, and it’s therefore the economic ideas behind EU policies that need to be discussed and revised. Unleashing misery on entire nations is indefensible not only from a humanitarian point of view, but also from a historical one. Who in the present context would know that better than Germany?
What Germany holds in its hands, but does not at all realize, is the survival of the European common currency. It must realize that the euro will fail if it tries only to dictate all policies to everyone at every turn. If Germany insists on applying the kind of dictatorship to Europe that it has been doing, the euro is dead. Both for political and historical reasons – nobody will accept being bullied by the Germans for long – and for economic reasons, because Germany’s economic ideas are simply too damaging for other eurozone nations.
Germany – and Holland – are so full of themselves at present – both the politicians and the people – that they are busy blowing up the EU, their cash cow, without realizing this even one moment.
If Greece gives in, Germany will have won, but its bully status will come to bite it in the face. European nations don’t accept bullying, and certainly not from Germany. It’ll be a Pyrrhic victory: the beginning of the end. If Greece however stands firm in its demands, it’s also curtains for the EU. If Greece leaves, it won’t leave alone.
Only the third option, Germany caving to Greek demands, can save the EU. But Merkel and Schäuble have prepped their people to such an extent with the wasteful lazy Greeks narrative that they would have a hard time explaining why they want to give in. The EU may thus fall victim to its own propaganda. That would be funny, no matter how tragic it is at the same time. But it would be an open invitation to the far right as well.
Steve Keen:
For Greece And Many Others, Economic Reform Is Bad For Your Economic Health
A quick quiz: which four countries do you think have done the most to reform their economies over the last seven years? OK, who said Greece, Portugal, Ireland and Spain? No one? Actually, someone did: the OECD. Yes, I kid you not, according to the OECD, the country that has done the most to reform its economy over the last seven years—that is, from before the 2008 economic crisis until well after it—is Greece. Followed at some distance by Portugal, Ireland and Spain.
I saw this in a tweet, and I simply had to go searching to see for myself. And there it was, on page 111 of the OECD’s publication Going For Growth 2015, released on February 9. The top economic reformers were the basket cases of Europe and the world in general. Unemployment in Greece is 27%; in Portugal it’s 15%, Ireland 12%, and Spain 25%. Those are very, very sick economies. And yet they are also the OECD’s top reformers.
You are, I hope, wondering “how come? Isn’t reform supposed to be good for you?” Well, that’s the fairy story—sorry, theory: reform your economies according to our recommendations, and—whatever else happens—your economy will grow more rapidly and be more stable to boot. Unfortunately for those purveying this fairytale, they also developed metrics by which the degree of reform could be measured, so that a decade later, we can compare the fairy story to the reality.
The EU program that Greece is currently refusing to continue implements part of what is known as the ”Stability and Growth Pact” or SGP—which a radio interviewer last week realized has (with just a slight rearrangement of the letters) a much more apt acronym of GASP. And the other countries that are also under the control of GASP include… Portugal, Ireland and Spain.
Greece is refusing to continue with this program, not because it is “refusing its medicine”, but because the medicine is actually poison. And Greece itself is not the proof of that: the other countries on this list are—especially Spain. Spain did everything that the GASP and mainstream economics recommended, not merely after the crisis but before it as well. The GASP required that member countries of the Eurozone have a government debt to GDP ratio of 60% or below, and run a maximum deficit of 3% or less of GDP.
Spain was doing both before the crisis. Its government debt ratio was below 60% from early 2000, and trending down—hitting a low of below 40% shortly after the crisis began.
Its deficit was even better—not only was it below 3% of GDP at the introduction of the Euro, by 2001 it was in surplus—hitting a peak of 2.5% of GDP in 2007.
Before the crisis hit, Spain was being lauded as a success story for the GASP, and superficially for good reason: not only was it following the GASP program by running surpluses, and reducing its government debt, its economy was booming. Unemployment, which had always been high, trended down from 12.5% at the start of the Euro to 8% by 2007. And then it all went pear-shaped.
This raises two questions, the answers to which cement the case that the EU’s austerity program should end everywhere—and not just in Greece. Firstly, how did Spain appear to be doing so well, and then collapse so badly? And did the EU’s policies contribute to Spain’s problems?
The answer to the first question involves what happened to the debt that GASP ignores (as do conventional economists everywhere): private debt. While the GASP imposed strict controls on government debt, it ignored the blowout in private debt on the erroneous argument that private debt is economically unimportant. Private debt rose from about 120% of GDP in early 2000 to over 200% by the time the crisis began, and peaked at 225% of GDP when the GASP’s austerity program kicked in, as Figure 5 shows.
The growth in private debt gave the economy an enormous boost as it financed Spain’s housing bubble, and the tax revenue from this bubble was the main reason that the government was in surplus from 2000 until the crisis hit. The rise in private debt dwarfed the decline in government debt, and the huge stimulus from private sector borrowing more than compensated for the drag on the economy from the government surplus. As the government was “salting away pennies”, the private sector was wallowing in new debt-financed spending.
But to do so, the private non-bank sector had to get more indebted to the banks—as Figure 5 shows. When growth in private debt turned around, the housing bubble collapsed and private sector borrowing went into free-fall. Then, and only then, did government debt rise—as increased government spending slightly compensated for the plunge in private debt-financed spending. Ultimately, by 2010, the stimulus from rising government spending slowed down the decline in private borrowing. But then austerity kicked in and the government stimulus stalled. Consequently the private sector went from mild deleveraging into heavy deleveraging—reducing its debt by as much as 20% of GDP per year.
Don’t get me wrong here: I am a critic of private debt financed spending when it finances Ponzi Schemes like Spain’s housing bubble, and I believe that sustained recovery will not happen until private debt levels are drastically reduced. But when a private debt bubble bursts, government spending attenuates the downturn. To limit the growth in the government deficit makes the crisis worse, without doing much to reduce private debt compared to GDP because GDP collapses along with the falling private debt.
So these crises—in the OECD’s pin-up countries of Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal—are the product of the EU’s policies. The only way out of the crisis is to end the policies themselves, as Greece is demanding now.
And if Syriza gives in and the EU’s policies are maintained? Then this will go from being an economic and social tragedy to a political one as well. If Syriza caves in, then the Greeks who voted for a left anti-austerity party will switch allegiance to a right anti-austerity party—the fascist Golden Dawn—because they will claim that only they have the balls to actually do in office what they promise in opposition.
»
- 40186 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
This is what the neo Bolsheviks in the Central Banks have wrought. A good idea, brought to be fouled by the bejewled, crooked fingers of the neo Bolssheviks.
The tragedy of Europe is that rather sooner than later some country wants to dominate it and wants to impose its system on the rest of the continent. A bit like the US doing to the rest of the world. It is called triumphalism. This never goes down well in Europe. Read the history books.
Germany might say that they don't want to dominate Europe because of WWI and WWII and mass extermination of people andsoforth but that is just bullshit. Just as they wanted to prove that they had left their past as a genocidal nation behind (which they did) by bombing the shit out of Yugoslavia (accusing it of being a genocidal nation) and carving that country up with the help of others, they are now trying to prove they don't dominate Europe while in fact they do.
Germany's domination of Europe is Helmut Kohl's Europe. Oh perhaps he meant well. You know, all for the 'common interest of Europe and its people'-ladida but that is just a symptom of triumphalism. It is projection. They think it is something that others want as well and in the end they will understand it. Very Freudian actually.
"Germany – and Holland – are so full of themselves at present – both the politicians and the people"
Please leave the Dutch people out of this.
We voted AGAINST the EU and euro even at present !
Yep, bring back the guilder and D-mark fuck the USA and the FED.
No, we are full of ourselves but that does not have much to do with Greece. It has to do with the fact that we have it too good. Makes you arrogant. Makes one think it has everything to do with one's intelligence/hard work/etc. Fact is that both Germany and Holland are super-indebted, both the countries and their people. Really, all these countries that are full of themselves need a good crisis in order to make them see what is really important in life.
It makes no difference at all how the Greek debt question is resolved. The Greek government's debt to gdp has continued to rise, Greek gov't expeditures continue to rise (significantly more than most other EU gov'ts), even as its tax revenues continue to rise. Syriza is a just another band of lying politicians refusing to lead its people to anything but ruin.
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&p...
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&p...
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&p...
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&p...
Yeah but Greek GDP fell by 25% so no wonder that debt to gdp ratio goes up even though you are right that Greek government spending went up. But that wasn't really such a big problems for the banks that loaned them all that money until the moment the SHTF. Austerity (aka killing the competition) killed their SME.
That's a good point. GDP has spiraled down since the top circa 2006.
That kind of debt to GDP ratio with limited sources of income from tax and revenue is unsustainable and killing Greek recovery.
In all fairness, they collectively are responsible for that mess but everybody loaned them money. Then troubles started and the bank were bailed out. Nobody bails either you or me out when we make bad investments. Greek debts were socialized over European citizens while the banks said "thank you". Actually, not even a thank you.
My next big question why has Greek GDP continue to deteriorate so much compared to the EU.
Because of debt/death spiral. Austerity killed off their SME. Thousands of small businesses went belly up. And I guess their illegal drug and prostitution sector is not big enough to cover for the losses (you've heard about that EU accounting rule where you can add that to your GDP?). These lazy Greeks! They are not using enough drugs and go to the hookers enough! Not willing to do anything for their country!!1!
All kidding besides, not enough industry and no SME. Tourism, agriculture and fishery next to producing olives and Ouzo won't cut it.
How is this all of Germany's fault? The Greeks voted in Socialists and now Communists, to take other people's money and give away free stuff to their freeloaders. Germany is a productive country, and should be careful with its money, I think they don't want to spend good money after bad, is that so wrong?
So you think the Greeks deserve more free money and not have to pay it back? If so you are no better than those socialists in the unicorn crapping skittles utopia!
Same idiocy here in Amerika, where once productivity was glorified, and now it is villified!
The world is upside down, and I see people cheering? I am laughing so hard at the luncacy of it all, amazing!
Give it a rest people.
Yeah because Greece should have big car companies like Germany. YOu can only make and sell so much Olive Oil You are quite the moron, sonny.
Greece imports are roughly twice the size of its exports, although its balance of trades has been improving much of the past 5 years.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/balance-of-trade
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/greece/exports
I think Detroit is a decent analogy. Detroit city government is hobbled with growing debt for city services that aren't paid for by city residents...as the productive ones are an ever shrinking percentage shouldering an increasingly burdensome share. Detroit city politicians (in concert with state and federal pols) accuses the State of Michigan of austerity policies that injured the most 'vulnerable'...the ones using city services the most and contributing the least. Then the state of Michigan begs for more borrowed money from the federal gov't.
No one who challenges the robbery of the productive to swaddle the growing horde of unproductive can politically survive. An endless loop here and in Europe, seemingly until the end.
It's not 'the Germans', it's merely Deutsche Bank wihich had trillions of risk-exposure, and which is likely to go off the cliff if Greece leaves the lifestock-party.
As I said before about the lazy Greeks taking the money....
They = All them that are not us.
"...They should have never borrowed money..."
"They" the people had about as much say about what "Their" government did in "Their" name as "we" Americans have in changing what Obama(bush/clinton/bush....) have done in "OUR" name.
Someday, "Someone" might hold "us" responsible what "Our" Government did in "Our" interest.
One shouldn't get cocky, the wheel is still spinning.
"THEY", voted the azzhats in, so "THEY" did it to themselves. "WE" did this to ourselves too (in Amerika). I am not cocky, I am speaking the truth of the matter.
People given false choices will make bad decisions
WELL, THAT DIDN`T TAKE LONG! THE REAL PEOPLE THROWING THEIR WEIGHT AROUND IS THE HOLE EUROPEEN UNION! ANYWAYS! THE EMPHASIS HERE SHOULD BE MORE ALONG THE LINES OF: THE MASSIF TRADE DEFICIT GREECE HAS WITH THE REST OF EUROPE AND HOW ITS CORRUPT GOVERMENTS ARE DEPLETING ITS NATIONAL RESERVES AND STIFLING ITS PRIVATE SECTOR, THE FLAWS ON THESE WARPED SETTINGS ARE ABSURD!
Your CAPS Lock is on...
Some clowns are so stupid they don't realize that most people skip over ALL CAPS comments because they are difficult to read LOL
RE
We can only hope
Maybe it would be better if Germany left the euro and the EU. Then the other EU countries could not accuse them of being dictators and bullies.
Wow, could not disagree more. Germany is on the hook for something like 80 billion euros all told, and there is a very good chance that it may have to cancel this debt, blowing its own finances up in the process. This is about sending a message to demagogues and their movements that they cannot promise the world to their citizens by demonizing others just so that they can then make an ultimatum to the rest of the EU that they no longer will keep their word. If this scare tactic works then the other EU countries might ask themselves why should i honor my debts? I understand that the Greeks would rather see fault elsewhere, and there is no win win solution in the short term, but they threaten an economic block. Small Baltic and east block nations have also suffered heavily, But they pulled through. This is anything but bullying, complete garbage. The greeks are NOT victims - their own profligacy, corruption and bureacratic chaos got them here.
Fixed it for ya...
"The greeks are NOT victims - their own profligacy, corruption and bureacratic chaos got them here. "
The xgreeksx Americans, Russians, Chinese, Spanish, Italians... et al are NOT victims - their own profligacy, corruption and bureacratic chaos got them here.
bernake printed 80 billion euros (fuck exchange rates, it's close enough) for 12 months a year, for how many years?
it's peanuts. peanuts.
but - it does tell you how well the 'global recovery' has been going.
time for some banksters to stop trying to own everything.
all these countries produce enough food for the people to eat.
global first world citizens are not starving because they don't have enough food to eat.
THE QUESTION IS - how much do we all exchange for banker fiat.
THAT is the only question. they are trying to suck up all the wealth.
The only conclusion I can draw is that there is a market for op-eds predicting the demise of the euro.
The Rubicon and Mutti.... alea jacta est, for Eurozone.
And, what does Mr Lux-laundrymat do in the meantime as HEAD of Eurocommission?
When did Steve keen become a Keynesian?
Don't show me a VAT rate chart or anything. As if "austerity" has meant lower govt spending. Bullshit. It's meant higher taxes. But only a real Austrian would make the distinction.
Keen was always a Keynesian. Neo-Keynesian, to be precise.
next stop fascism
So what happend if Germany (and other creditors) forgive enough Greek debt to put Greece back on its feet? Surely the other nations of Portugal, Italy and Spain will demand the same. Perhaps all could debt forgiveness (no doubt after some "bailout" restructuring that just increase the debt load and kicks the can down the road) and then the EU could remain viable? Sort of a debt Jubilee type scenario? Of course there are big losers with that, private bondholders losing their savings... but I think those buying Greek or other PIGS bonds should have known it was junk bond status and that the 10+% interest also came with a big default risk.
All parties know this; this is one of several potential dominoes (i.e Ukraine, shale business, any number of balloon pops) and they also know there is no way out unless the Greeks do business as usual.
The Germans want this thing to end because they are holding up the whole enchilada and Germans actually like to save with interest & have over 5000 family owned business who like doing profitable business with Russia.
Notice the US is shifting more troops over to the German air-base; this will cause further tensions in the not to distant future.
Research 'Fractional Reserve Banking'.
Because you use debt for money, both national, and fractionally-reserved notional, no debt jubilee is possible without abolishing all the money in the world.
It would evaporate not just the debt, but also the wealth of the world.
Because the two are one and the same.
"And any political union that ignores the misery it unloads upon its citizens has a short shelf life." - Is 150 years considered short? Think US of A's
Hey Raul; come here because I got a secret to tell you; remember you said this - "What Germany holds in its hands, but does not at all realize, is the survival of the European common currency."
No kidding; the Germans are tired of holding the damn thing together and are ready to get the f*** out. You can't be that stupid.
I digress :)
Good title - shame about the content
Hey Raul; you also said this foolishness "If Greece gives in, Germany will have won, but its bully status will come to bite it in the face. European nations don’t accept bullying, and certainly not from Germany."
You need to quit drinking the Kool-aid and know the cultures; the Germans want this end. They have the foresight to see what the end will be eventually and do not want to be brought down with it.
Takes a lot more than just "Germany" to blow up the EU. Draghi comes to mind, US Central Banks come to mind, Russia & China come to mind, QE comes to mind - treason also comes to mind...let's throw in ISIS as well.
Greece is the victim of their own swindle and so is the Eurozone. If they stop the swindle now it means a catastrophe. If they let it go on it will mean a disaster. Let us hope they choose wisely.
so ... it's germany's fault that greeks are eye-deep in debt that they are not willing to pay back?
Well, yes. That's what it is exactly. Do you think those big German banks will ever get around to thanking the Greek populace for bailing them out?
A bit OT but:
Nuland planning session.
http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/02/german-newspaper-bild-gets-inside-us...
Guys...don't you see...there is no more go-go in the MoJo.
Got it ?
Fiat is paper IOU.
Hey...the market is waking up now.
"The EU may thus fall victim to its own propaganda."
- Every civilization carries the seeds of its own destruction, and the same cycle shows in them all. The Republic is born, flourishes, decays into plutocracy, and is captured by the shoemaker whom the mercenaries and millionaires make into a king. The people invent their oppressors, and the oppressors serve the function for which they are invented. - Mark Twain
Couple of brief points FROM SOMEONE WHO IS NOT GERMAN BUT WHO DOES BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ALL OVER THE WORLD and chooses to live in Germany part-time as my European Hqs:
1. The ONLY people who have ANYTHING of ANY value to contribute to this discussion are those people who have ACTUALLY GONE TO LIVE & WORK IN GREECE AND START AND RUN A BUSINESS THERE - UNLESS YOU HAVE DONE THIS, YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY ZERO KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE HORRIFICALLY CORRUPT, INTENTIONALLY BYZANTINE HYPER-BLOATED MAKE-WORK-GOVERNMENT JOBS ANTI-ENTREPRENEUR HYPER-SOCIALIST PARASITE GOVERNMENT AND SOCIETY IN GREECE. ALL OF YOU WHO HAVE NOT DONE THIS AND HAVE ANTI-BANK RELIGION/DISEASE SHOULD KEEP YOUR MOUTHS SHUT AND YOUR HEADS UP YOUR IDEOLOGICAL ASSES.
2. The Greeks repeatedly democratically elected socialist governments who promised abundant freebies and who borrowed other people's money like drug addicts on a binge - the Greeks never exercised their democratic power to vote these socialist entitlement gift givers out of office while the Greeks were receiving absurdly unsustainable payments for every imaginable socialist program, SO THE GREEK PEOPLE DESERVE THE DEBT CESSPOOL THAT THEY CREATED. LIVING ON ONLY WHAT YOU ACTUALLY EARN INSTEAD OF STOLEN MONEY IS NOT "AUSTERITY", IT IS *** REALITY ***. THE GREEKS MUST EITHER PAY BACK THE LOANS OR DEFAULT AND LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES.
3. The Greeks should lern to make things that other people will pay to buy - AS THE GERMANS HAVE DONE SO WELL.
The Greeks are not the only ones in this SELF-IMPOSED debt cesspool - the Americans and many others are racing to exceed them. Let Greece be a lesson to all the socialist parasites of the consequences of living on debt instead of only on what you actually earn.
Couldnt have said it better myself. Spot on.
I guess you don't understand this situation nor basic economics. You have those talking points and sticking to them. Throwing -isms and -ists around mask an unimaginable ignorance.
Fiat allowed all of this society, and all the corruption to occur. The 8 Billion people and modern society is greatest ever, but the corruption is even worse.
What follows and occurs after fiat is bad politics.
The bad politics their people's problem, but fiat allowed it. The finance, the banks, the banksters, the revolving politician-bankers...and banksters.
Fiat and the finance from fiat allows this to occur.
If there was true value in fiat (like a backed currency) then the politicians and corrupt would have no way to exercise their crafty ways upon the public.
The only way to fund should be much less corrupt than pure fiat.
In our US Consitution, Article 1, Section 10, the Contracts Clause:
That is the point we are mostly trying to make here at ZH...not 'blame' which is petty, but why the corruption and downfall.
If we had only capital running the markets there would be far less corruption, in any political spectrum.
Good ideas here.
1) Re Greece I'll take your word for it, and comment if I like, thank you.
2) What the fuck are the frugal/intelligent Germans/EU doing lending them money then?
3) Over capitalisation makes no more a point.
Malaka
Funny the nonsense that comes out of an otherwise decent source when it comes to this Greek situation. Not sure what ideology is blinding ZH to the realities here.
They have to do it. due to ass impalement comming. BBC: says it, see min. 5:20
The Super-Rich and Us BBC Documentary 2015
http://youtu.be/8Xa8b9bm45M
The BBC said it, therefore it must be factually correct and impartial..........................................yawn
double post sorry
The theory of European Unification was that you could add together the people of Europe and achieve a positive result.
Zeroes, when added, are still zero. The deadbeats, layabouts, and thieves had something to gain in the Euro, put fiction into a sausage-grinder and cranked out clean books. Fraud is an effort that pays off only when someone responds to the fraud.
People who cannot take care of themselves have nothing to add to society. They can only subtract.
Corrupt oligarchs, are not Hercules. They do not survive by their own might, but by luck, fraud, and murder. They wield power through intimidation, not strength. When common people tolerate or encourage them, they become their own first victims. Because the thief you empower will rob you first.
Let those determined to play during the sowing season starve. They must inevitably reap what they sew. It is ultimately a choice they made for themselves.
For a Greek to receive money he did not earn, a German must be chained in a work-gang where he must spend a portion of his life in labor in return for nothing.
If the non-productive remain in the Euro with the Germans, the Germans will steadly sink to the lowest common denominator, or be ground away on the wheel of uncompensated labor.
How in the world could someone still be peddling the "lazy Greek" bullshit? My god man! Turn off your fucking radio and start paying attention. The whole Greek bailout was big German and French banks being bailout by the Greek citizenry. The socialization of private debt. Who was really being unproductive here?
I didn't see "lazy greek" anywhere? I think he is simply pointing out an (absolutely factual) accounting process and a natural action/reaction scenario. You can fill in whichever name you want on whichever side. You did, and put words in his mouth?
[QUOTE]For a Greek to receive money he did not earn, a German must be chained in a work-gang where he must spend a portion of his life in labor in return for nothing.
If the non-productive remain in the Euro with the Germans, the Germans will steadly sink to the lowest common denominator, or be ground away on the wheel of uncompensated labor.[/QUOTE]
Baloney.
Because the Eurozone contains weak economies, the value of the Euro has been anchored which means that all of Gunthers exports remain competitively priced. As a result Germany has been booming since the Euro's inception.
When fraudulent books and threats pay better than productivity, men will all become frauds and thieves.
Utter nonsense. If those populist nutcases in Greece have their way, the euro is dead. Not tomorrow, but finally yes. Schaueble might not be the most sympathetic guy on earth, but he is right.
Price inflation has many sources, but only one cause: Money for Nothing.
Said another way, a stable currency, even gold, that is backed by less productivity has a lower real value.
Money for nothing turns the motivation for productivity on its head. For one man to receive money for nothing, another must receive nothing for something.
Production is always a risk. Producer's bet a portion of their lives in the hope of reciprocity.
But theft and fraud always pay off, nothing is ventured, but sometimes something is gained.
Once the productive realize the risk/reward ratio is better being a fraud or thief, they steadily move to the fraud camp.
Then everyone starves together.
Justice is not just a value. Without justice there can be no mercy.
I'd happily sit and talk to you gcjohns, I like your brain.
gcjohns1971
Isn't that the definition of a Ponzi Maneuver?
Hey, postings by Freedom123 are gone. Can't find him as a user either.
Perhaps he said something forbidden about a certain ethnic/religious group.
Perhaps he wanted his posts taken down now that all the dust has settled.
Really?
You must be the man on the moon.
The dust hasn't begun to settle here on earth.
(cough cough)
As a matter of fact it seems a little dustier today.
Can't find him as a user either
Very strange, BigJim. A month or two ago I couldn't find Viedoklis as a user either.
I hope your wallet and watch aren't missing along with Viedoklis and freedom123
Strange?
Only strange for those of us who occasionally pretend not to know the lay of the land. :o|
I see plenty of that going around here inspite of the ban on that. I don't think he ever made any remarks in that direction.Too bad. He was a source of entertainment.
Not to worry.
If he doesn't come back as Viedoklis, he'll be back as something else 123.
But what ever he comes back as, his god-given stupidity will give him away.
What an infantile analysis. The author doesn't even begin to ponder what "survival of the EU" in the context of "Greece winning" means, what it will lead to. Germany is being the "bully" because it sees the potential for the EU to move in a direction it doesn't want - direction that the poorer, less competitive Mediterranean nations most certainly want it to move. The current setup of the EU and the EZ has been profitable for Germany, but is a "United States of Europe", with northern European taxpayers subsidizing the south even more, desireable? Is it worth it? Is it worth giving Bryssels a lot more budgetary power? And is it even politically feasible to push forward the constitutional changes that this requires?
They were all WARNED that the euro couldn't work without full political union but they still went ahead and did it. Germany France are to blame as much as the rest.
the big joke is Japan and the US. The Greek finance minister is saying realistically, we cant really pay the principal back so lets basically QE it (central bank buys holds it write it off) and then maintain a surplus (small one) and end the tax avoidence / corruption and get economy going, so sounds reasonable and a good idea. The lenders messed up as much as the borrower, and for Germany to QE greek debt will lead to softer Euro and stronger society.
Japans debt is 240% much higher than greece and there defict (improved ) is 380 bill USD for 2015, not including interest (closer to 500 bill with interest) and its set to get worse.
yet they want to set rates at sub 0.5% for 10ys.
So who is making more sense Greece or Japan. Which bonds are prperly valued Greece at 9.5% or Japan at 0.4% (which the BOJ thinks is too high and might require more easing to keep down..
the Germans should let Greece get 6 months and then properly restructure / QE the debt away while maintaining a 1.5% surplus (well done Greece) and Europe will show the US/Japan how to deal with debt and balance budgets.
They have the budget surplus thats the hard part now restructure the debt.
lets see Japan and US get a 1.5-5% budget surplus... impossible
Two choices as far as I see it.
1) File all .gov crap and most other 'mail' in the bin, don't (or minimise) contract with corporates, shop locally, have a milkman, take cash or anything of value in payment for labour.
2) Wait, moan, sell your kids and grandkids to the fuckers also.
How easy it is to conflate the disparate interests of politicians, bankers and the middle-class paying for this fuckarow by hiding behind the concept of a "country" or even better, a "union". This Euro end-game graphically illustrates that patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. Good thing the history of Europe is not written in blood.
The currency union was established on a dream of coming the Federal Europe. Politics over rid sound economic principles when the union needing more mussel at the establishment stage accepted Italy´s cooked national accounts. Ever since everything has run along the same guide lines. The debt rose by 50% since gfc and managing the burden by increased growth became documented fairy tale. Keeping several dead horses harnessed together to improve dead horse´s performance is unlike to lead into a new dazzling success and printing press will create a "sustainable" recovery similar to Fed´s catch 22. Germany´s unrepented stand is understandable, because concessions to Greece would open a flood of demands from other troubled economies. The nein however seems to result into the same game over. Why not to throw the towel now, because it may be cheapest for most of the parties involved.
ve have vays of blowink thinks UP!
Germany must raise an army, quickly.
After the U.S. cities are nuked they’re defenseless.
Mostly for my own benefit, let's review the state-of-play:
in the misty dark ages, Russia builds pipelines from their gasfields across Ukraine to Germany. Germany and Russia agree to a price, sign contract with handshakes and vodka. US fumes about Germany and Russia playing footsy under the table. Brzezinski, father and daughter, become the darlings of US administrations Red and Blue.
Ukraine sees opportunity to get free nat gas from their rich cousins...East and West, by syphoning gas. Germany complains about short deliveries, Russia demurs. Neither wants to deal with the Okrina. Germany suggests it will lend the money to Ukraine, and Russia will send enough for Ukraine and Germany. Nat Gas flows, Russia gets paid, buys gold. Austrian banks make loans, earns interest. Germany gets energy and makes cars for Calif. Eastern Ukraine continues to work, but factories are old and lots of deferred maintenance. Western Ukraine, whose mafia is nasty business, does not invest or grow...so loan repayments are not going to ever be possiible. Fast forward to.....
....Russia refuses to abandon Assad, repositions aircraft carrier so that US planes coming from Spain must overfly, then offers BHO assistance in removing Syrian chemical weapons. Bibi blows a gasket.
BHO offers Stanley Fischer the second-in-command at the FED in order to direct the financial campaign against Iran from the FED rather than BOI. Suddenly sanctions against RUssia are also possible because..... *Ukraine*. It's a two-fer: get Russia out of Syria AND Germany sees a clear opportunity to renegotiate the nat gas contract's Ukraine clause.
Putin suggests Russia won't continue to use SWIFT if the sanctions continue. He needs German market but decides Germany won't get all of Ukraine, question is where to draw the border. He knows someone will have to govern the ungovernable province. Starts training a local militia.
Greece sees Germany in the awkard position of either....going to war (Americans like this option for weapon sales. Israel likes this option because it changes the balance in Syria) or forgiving Ukraine debt, resetting the debt meter setting up a friendlier government.
Greece sees Merkel evaluating a debt writedown/buyout of Ukraine and decides that they have had enough of this austerity and playing nice. Greece won't ever get a better time to renegotiate, and turns to the Soros Party.
Everybody laughs at Joe Biden, who thinks he can set his son up among the Okrina as "imperial legate of praetorian rank."
Merkel flies all around talking. She looks very tired. The FT starts the drumbeat for war, with Gideon Rachman leading the outrage, the Western protector of the Ukrainian civil order, liberty, freedom. Okrina pimps chuckle, "we are heroes", pass around the vodka.
Eastern Ukrainian refugees in Kiev discover that the chocolate king is nasty business and there is no money to support refugees. They go home to Eastern Ukraine.
SO, the Ukrainians lost this long ago, right after the big war when they chose the Ughorod mafia/drugs and prostitution over the hard work of nation building. It's just that the free nat gas has stopped. Putin has the goods but it is not clear if he has time on his side. He thinks he does. He needs his market though. He can't walk away, and he doesn't really want to strengthen China. The winter has been long and cold and the border across mid-Ukraine is becoming more clear.
Greece is just playing the best card they have: ports and stability in the Eastern Med. "No, the new pipeline from Syria may not be any more reliable than dealing with the Okrina. The Eastern Med is a warzone." And the US is not really in this unless the new US Congress gets behind the Ukie war. Queue Benjamin Netanyahu in front of the US Congress on March 3rd?? Is he overplaying his hand?
Replacing old debt with new debt isn't a solution for insolvency.
Germany knows this.
Greece knows this.
But it's not just the Gerries. Those Dutch fuckwits and Austrian fuckwits are also cheerleaders for austerity.
I hope the Eurzone dies because it deserves to.
Nothing can save the EU
It seems that the author of this article does not always attach importance to facts and lacks a little bit about knowledge related to the real "mental" background in Germany in terms of what we euphemistically call "crisis".
Citation: "Only the third option, Germany caving to Greek demands, can save the EU. But Merkel and Schäuble have prepped their people to such an extent with the wasteful lazy Greeks narrative that they would have a hard time explaining why they want to give in. The EU may thus fall victim to its own propaganda."
By no means. In Germany there has been a very low governmental tendency to disparage the Greek people. To the contrary: Our government has been subject to fierce criticism for a allegedly lack of finding the "right" words with regard to the Greek attitude. Regardless of affronts and provocation Berlin never tired to claim friendship and working to foster understanding - although Athen never fulfilled austerity demands.
Sad but true: The other way round there have been a lot of politicians and movements out there calling my generation "Nazis' and torturers - including the Syrzia party.
Citation: "Trying to browbeat them all into submission, and yes, that is where Germany’s stance is leading, will only lead to much bigger trouble."
By giving a bailout a new interpretation as "submission" Greece sadly fulfills some prejudices which are out there among admonishers. Beside of this in Greece itself there are doubts if an Eurozone led by Hellenic 'anarchy', obvious prodigality, sanctity of contracts, disorganization, corruption, usages and pennilessness would last with less trouble. And it's not a typical German point of view country living in the social hammock funded by the EZB can't be taken serious as solution of present problems.
Citation: "What Germany holds in its hands, but does not at all realize, is the survival of the European common currency."
The German government is well aware about the situation and risks - but a "common currency" can't mean printing coupons for wealth & neighbors goods for free. Even if a government is acting like Tsirpas & Co.
Citation: "Germany’s bullying- which is how its actions are being perceived by fast growing numbers of people – will come back to hurt it"
After bailing Greece out twice and and with more then 100 billion Dollars tax money in the "Greek fire" German taxpayers - bashed as Nazis by the Greek government - are not very amused to be blamed for Greek prodigality and incapacity.
Especially the campaign goodies of the Greek government are a stumbling block, a tremendous provocation. One among many election gifts expected to be funded by the German taxpayers is the plan of Mr. Tsirpas to reward Greek tax debtors (e. g. yacht-owners) by cancelling 90% of their tax debt when prepared to pay 10 percent. We are talking about a total tax debt mountain of around 90 billion dollars and a tax abatement about 80 billions dollars. I think it's not a German issue in a narrow sense to be not amused about generous usages (or should I call it provocations?) like this in time of empty pockets. Solidarity means something else.
Citation: "Steve Keen uses proprietary numbers issued by the OECD – which is supposed to be on Germany’s side?! – to show how dramatically austerity has failed in Europe"
Fact is: Until today Greece failed to comply with 90 percent of the repeatedly negotiated and signed austerity-agreements. So the answer if austerity-measures are suitable to regain competitiveness remains unanswered. Looking to Portugal we observe fast progress. Remember: From 2000-2008 the average Greek net incomes shot up over 40 percent (at the same period net earnings in Germany decreased) - but from 2010-2015 Greek incomes decreased by only seven percent. Why should Slovaks with an average monthly income about 400 Euro support Greek indignation to realize their own economic realities? The foreseeability of this problems was the reason why Germany was never supporting the Greek accession to the Eurozone. It was Athen forcing itself into the club with false numbers, worthless agreements, clamors, drogues and...of course...Nazi slogans.
92% of this 'bail-out' money (from the EU, not solely Germany) went to European banks? The Greek people only received 8%?
Athens didn't "force herself into the club with false numbers"! Goldman Sachs (paid by ECB) massaged her books for her. They also made a small fortune selling 'dirivatives' on Greek stock?
Goldman Sachs also performed the same trick, earlier, on Italy, when Draghi was chancellor, he went on to higher things; 1st in Goldman Sachs, then as head of ECB, where he still sits? With out this trick, we'd have no Euro?