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"We're All Frogs In Boiling Water" Santelli Says After Lacy Hunt Warns "This Is Far From Over"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Global debt has expanded by $35 trillion since the credit crisis and as Lacy Hunt exclaims, "that's a net negative, debt is an increase in current consumption in exchange for a decline in future spending and we are not going to solve this problem by taking on more and more debt." Santelli notes that debt will actually keep growth "squashed down" and points out the low rates in Europe questioning the ability of The ECB's actions to save the economy which Hunt confirms as "longer-term rates are excellent economic indicators" and that is not a good sign for Europe.   

 

"This process is far from over," Hunt concludes, "rates will move irregularly lower and will remain depressed for several years."

Santelli sums up perfectly, "we're all frogs in boiling water," as we await the consequences of central planning.

 

 

Full Hoisington note below:

Hoisington Q1 2015

 

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Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:03 | 6003649 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Look at the bright side...

You could have a job driving in Russia.

Driving while retarded seems to be the national pastime.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:10 | 6003691 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

Lacy Hunt exclaims, "that's a net negative, debt is an increase in current consumption in exchange for a decline in future spending"  I'm not sure how that statement could possibly be true.  Granted for an individual debt is a reduction in future spending, but for every debt there is an asset.  So if I lend you my consumption now for your consumption in the future, in a microeconomic sense I don't see how total consumption could possibly be affected.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:55 | 6003714 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

Depends on the assets that were bought! Most is consumption or assets that depreciate significantly. Greece don't have many 'assets' left but tons of debt! U.S. has got US$1T in liberal arts student loan 'assets!'

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 15:31 | 6004023 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

I feel like I'm talking to a rock.  Either A) You reduce your consumption to save currency and pay back the debt, in which case I increase my consumption by the same amount you reduce yours B) You default on the debt causing me not to consume any additional amount, and also relieving you of the need to reduce your consumption.  Where do you think the debt is going?  Do you imagine an alien vessel coming down to Earth, seizing a pile of assets and flying away again?  The assets and consumption all remain here.  The simple existence of the debt no matter what its nominal quantity does not have any effect on total net consumption.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 17:25 | 6004274 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

Dang it I think u just solved the Greek debt problem.

Hmmm just tell Germany when the Greeks default all that means is that they won't need to increase their consumption. Then tell the Greeks they won't have to reduce their consumption. Debt doesn't go into the spaceship like u said! Now everybodys happy & no middle finger needed for anybuddy! Woohoo! 

Damn yur smert! Did u win a bankin' nobel too? Now u got me thinkin' there wouldn't have been a credit crash in '08 if the banks had 5000% lending leverage & now the Greeks problem is they don't got enuf debt & need moar!!!? Dang it ... I do feel like an alien rock-head now ... expecially next to you the Rock of Gibralter!

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 20:04 | 6005004 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Level of debt, or rate of debt accumulation relative to income.  It is currently unsustainable.  Most balance sheets, including HH's would make most lenders cringe.  There isn't enough collateral to cover the exposure to unsecured risk.  Do we just continue adding zeros to your consumption today, loss of consumption tomorrow exchangers?  Like, $20,000 Trillion borrowed today against payback of $20,000 Trillion tomorrow.  Yeah, I don't see a problem here, fuck - it will all work out.  In a world of non manipulated interest rates - i.e - free markets, the level of debt was always commensurate with income.  Housing prices were always and forever about 3 times annual HH income.  Not the case now - is it.  Its not the level of debt that is the problem - in and of itself.  Its the level of debt being taken on relative to projected or expected income.  that is the problem.  And eventually, if not already - we have reached unsustainable levels.  Moreover, if it were really that simple, fuck why not take rates 1,000 basis points negative - so fuck everybody borrows, and NOBODY saves.  So long as your equilibrium remains were good right?  You feel like you're talking to a rock.  I'll take the rock over your insanity any day. 

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 21:03 | 6005204 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

I think he's a loans officer at Fannie Mae?

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 17:22 | 6004450 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

It's not even true for an individual if the individual's income is rising. Same for nations.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:12 | 6003706 HopefulCynical
HopefulCynical's picture

Santelli notes that debt will actually keep growth "squashed down"...

Yes. It's all part of the plan. Humanity's ability to sustain itself must be destroyed, so the self-appointed Olympian bankster parasite psychopaths can own and operate the whole world.

Them or us, folks. Them or us. One's got to go.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:25 | 6003784 newsoutlet
newsoutlet's picture

poor poor russians have to live for 125$ for a month! not a day but month!

 

Her question, perhaps because it evokes the uncomfortable subject of pensioner poverty against the backdrop of much-criticized pension reform plans, was never selected.
 
Sirotkina's own pension amounts to $125 per month, half of which is spent on utilities.
 
With galloping inflation exacerbated by a Russian ban on food imports from some Western countries, she says she is forced to survive on a diet of bread and cheese spread.
 
Last July, the combative pensioner wrote a letter to Putin and had it delivered to the Kremlin through an aide to the Samara governor.
 
"No answer whatsoever, and in his speeches either," she sighs.

 

http://www.rferl.org/content/good-tsar-bad-tsar-complaining-doesnt-alway...

 

So economy where millions of people have to live with 125$ a MONTH will beat US?

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:27 | 6003789 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

Especially if the Kenyan sends them sum EBT card and free cell phones!

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:37 | 6003840 newsoutlet
newsoutlet's picture

 

"Three weeks after sending her letter to Putin, however, she received a note from the pension fund informing her that her monthly payments were being reduced by $14 -- 10 percent of her income.
 
The fund accused her of "illegally receiving extra money" in her pension, accrued for years spent studying at university while not working. Sirotkina insists Russian legislation entitles her to such payments.
 
"I totally collapsed," she says."

http://www.rferl.org/content/good-tsar-bad-tsar-complaining-doesnt-alway...

 

So now that person will one month for 111 $

How that's even possible?!

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:50 | 6003894 Itchy and Scratchy
Itchy and Scratchy's picture

That's $111 more than the under 40's will be getting from S.S.!

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:32 | 6003812 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture
Stands corrected: "All who hold fiat paper wealth are Frogs In Boiling Water"

 

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 14:35 | 6003828 snakedogs
snakedogs's picture

Krugman say's Print more, borrow more, spend more! The frogs of Central planning will figure it out later.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 15:10 | 6003962 tommylicious
tommylicious's picture

is he related to Lacey Underall?

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 15:18 | 6003980 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

AND what rhymes with Hunt? 

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 15:18 | 6003979 Chuck Knoblauch
Chuck Knoblauch's picture

Stay the course, young fools.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 15:31 | 6004024 yogibear
Fri, 04/17/2015 - 15:55 | 6004116 JailBank
JailBank's picture

Sorry to burst the bubble of all you couch economists, but just today THE Paulumus Krugmanus, Lord of Economies and Destroyer of Austerity told us we are doing it wrong. He is on his way to save Greece the same way he saved Japan.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 15:56 | 6004122 JailBank
JailBank's picture

PS

If $35 trillion is doing this well for us all imagine what $70 trillion could do?

Think about it.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 16:37 | 6004283 Bon Hagar
Bon Hagar's picture

The country's in the very best of hands.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 16:49 | 6004304 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

"We are not going to solve this problem by taking on more and more debt."

We are STUCK INSIDE MAD Money As Debt systems, that are way more CRIMINALLY INSANE than anybody making "money" inside of those MAD systems, (who appear to mostly still tend to continue to take those for granted), appears able and willing to consider!

In light of the metaphor that "We're All Frogs In Boiling Water," the on-going mass extinction of life forms on Earth at the present time, primarily due to human beings destroying their habitat, is particularly affecting amphibians such as frogs. Indeed, "This Is Far From Over," since the extinction of species of frogs is like a "canary in the coal mine" warning regarding what those trends would later mean to human beings.

People are making "money" within FUNDAMENTALLY FRAUDULENT FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING SYSTEMS! The international bankers were the best organized gangsters, that were able to apply the methods of organized crime to the political processes, in order to make and maintain the entrenched Money As Debt systems, in which NOTHING ELSE IS POSSIBLE THAN EXPONENTIALLY MORE DEBTS, until those runaway debt insanities provokes death insanities:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-11/meet-secretive-group-runs-world

Meet The Secretive Group That Runs The World

By and large, those who care about making "money" INSIDE the established systems have no interest in that system as a whole. After all, there is no "actionable intelligence" provided by comprehending the bigger picture that the political economy has become runaway criminal insanities. As those systems automatically generate numbers which become more blatantly obvious levels of debt insanities, more people are beginning to notice that. However, there are only relatively few, and politically insignificant, people who are looking at the bigger picture.

Here is an illustration of such an attempt to look at the bigger picture, although, as I will comment below, it too tends to stay too superficial regarding how to resolve the problems that are due to governments becoming the biggest forms of organized crime, which are controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, which currently happen to be the central banks, and those who control those banks:

http://www.doomsteaddiner.net/blog/2015/04/13/privare-to-deprive-to-take-to-rob/

Privare: To deprive, to take, to rob.

"... the dominant culture under which we are subjugated is neither sane nor rational. The dominant culture barely acknowledges the horrors it is leveling on the living beings of this world, and when it does acknowledge them, it both minimizes them and declares the solution to be more of its methodologies applied, not less. Examples of this are claims that “green capitalism” or technology or geo-engineering will save us. Somehow, more extraction, more consumption, and more domination are supposed to undo the damage done by extraction, consumption, and domination. ...

One of the manifestations of this flawed way of thinking and flawed understanding of ourselves, is the concept of private property. Private property is the idea that one human can deprive all other humans of access to a particular tract of the Earth, that this human can enforce this deprivation with lethal force — whether self applied or called down from the hierarchy in the form of police and courts — and that this particular human not only has sole access to this tract of land and what it contains, but that the land and all that lives upon it can be destroyed at the whim of this person.

... Of course, like any discussion of the need to radically adjust our social organizations, discussions about the exploitative nature of private property often cause “first world” people who have — or are working towards — meager holdings of property themselves to seize up. Cries — often contradictory — of fascism and communism quickly ring forth. People are so terrified that what’s being referenced is their property. They fear that what little they have worked hard for while “playing by the rules” will be sliced and diced and handed to five different families comprised of lazy people who want a handout. This generally renders the petty-owner rarely willing to explore the notion of private property and it’s global ramifications. ...

How does one come to “own” land? They buy it. As their labor afforded them the currency to do so, owners cling to their private property claim as a direct result of that toil. This is not unreasonable. But as to the logic of purchasing land, it must be asked, where does the seller get the right to sell it? Of course, usually the seller bought the land themselves from a previous seller, but extend this as far backwards as the chain of ownership goes. Who was the first owner? If ownership is valid today because current owners purchased from previous owners, then their ownership is an extension of the first claim to ownership, and is thus, only as valid.

This takes us to primitive accumulation, on which Marx states: “The whole purpose of primitive accumulation is to privatize the means of production,  so that the exploiting owners can make money from the  surplus labour of those who, lacking other means, must work for them.”

Again, land is the source of all the necessities of life, so further and further accumulation of land is in reality, an increasing rate at which the culture says one person has a right to deprive others of life. An “owner” holding claim to hundreds or thousands of acres of land while multitudes of people live in crowded slums who must labor for pittance, only to turn this pittance over to landlords and those who control the food supply, is a form of violence. It’s a hostage situation. Work for us, or starve. Work for us, or take your chances on the streets with the police. For surely, without the violence of the police or the owner, these huddled masses living in the mega slums of the world would span outwards. More accurately, many of these people wouldn’t be living in slums to begin with, as large portions of the global poor were subsistence farmers before their traditional lands were seized by transnational corporations and state governments. ...

As land is the source of all wealth and survival, the massive application of force to maintain private property as it is currently understood and distributed, is tantamount an attempt to either snuff out or enslave the poor and the middle class by the wealthy. They hold privileged access to the source of all wealth and life, they claim the right to destroy what they hold at will for short sighted gains, and they claim the right to destroy the life giving ecological systems of the planet. This is a mode of thinking that needs vast reworking now. ...

Within the dominant culture, the common understanding of ownership is that an owner has a right to dispense with whatever it is they own in whatever manner they see fit. This view clearly creates a hierarchy of owner over owned. When slavery was legal (NOTE: Slavery is technically still legal, as far as prisoners are concerned) slave owners were seen as having the right to dispense with their slaves as they desired, whether this meant raping them, beating them, killing them, or merely working them to the bone. Slaves ceased to be people with a sentience and will all their own, but instead were reduced to being “property.” Of course, many people saw this arrangement as repugnant, and worked tirelessly to see it done away with. But always there were “owners” claiming their “rights” to the “property” they had “purchased.”

This reasoning is applied to land and all that lives upon land as well. Owners believe they have a right to dispense with their land as they so desire, whether that involves something positive like clearing invasive plants and seeding native flora, or something negative like clear cutting all of the trees present and bulldozing the top soil in an effort to strip mine for bitumen. When the right of the benevolent owner is defended, so is the right of the malevolent owner. ...

It takes a particular cultural way of thinking to believe that owning land is an objective reality. The dominant culture is striving to allow the private ownership of more and more, from public space, to public utilities, to ideas, to computer data, to DNA, to genes, and now even sunlight and rainfall. All of this is part of a cultural drive to dominate. The more that can be “owned” the more that the population can be controlled, as they will be dependent upon the owners for not only a place to sleep at night or food to eat, but water to drink and air to breath. ...

The cascading collapse of both civilization and the ecology of the planet are not likely to be stopped. As conditions worsen and become more stressful, there will be no shortage of false answers, again, usually claiming that we haven’t dominated enough, or controlled enough. What survival looks like will depend on our ability to adapt, and our ability to adapt will depend on our ability to shed vestigial ideas and modes of organization that have long grown malignant in our minds. I don’t expect this process to be anything other than horrifying, but if there is any hope it starts with us realizing which tools we need to put down."
____________________________________

... A relative good analysis, that stays within
false fundamental dichotomy paradigms,
and therefore, promotes impossible ideals.

I tended to promote radical transformations of us perceiving "we haven’t dominated enough, or controlled enough." Of course, there ARE alternatives. However, "hidden" in those methods are their alternative death controls! There MUST necessarily be some death control systems (which back up the debt controls). However, one of the consistent themes of the existing, as well as the proposed "alternative" systems, are that they BOTH tend to be deceitful, or to deliberately ignore and deny the ways that the death controls actually work, or would actually work, (if any "alternatives" were really implemented.)

The established systems are based on
the (short-term) social successes that
enable backing lies with violence.

Private property was always claims,
that became backed up by coercion.

Privare: To deprive, to take, to rob.

However, there are NO genuine resolutions
which do not directly address how and why
the world ended up being dominated by its
systems of legalized lies backed by violence.

As we tip past turning points of being able to
continue to strip-mine the planet exponentially,
debt insanities are provoking death insanities!

It continues to be the case that the ONLY genuine
resolutions will emerge out of death control systems.

Bogus "solutions" shall continue to be based on
false fundamental dichotomies, and their related
impossible ideals, so that those could NEVER be
presenting better ways for some NECESSARY
"dominated enough, or controlled enough."

Governments are necessarily the biggest form of organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, while there are no better solutions than to do that better, because of the chronic political problems inherent in the nature of life. That will return to becoming much more intensely acute, as ability to exponentially strip-mine the planet runs into diminishing returns, showing up first and foremost through the functionalities of the fraudulent financial accounting.

Using more "UNITARY MECHANISMS" are the only realistic ways to cope with globalized electronic frauds backed by atomic bombs, which are attempting to cope with increasing environmental limits. Those UNITARY MECHANISMS apply to perceiving human beings as
entropic pumps of energy flows, that have developed methods to function as various systems of organized lies operating robberies, that develop dynamic equilibria between those various systems.

Indeed, private property is based on being able to back up claims with coercions, whose most abstract form became money is measurement backed by murder. However, to attempt to resolve those issues with over-simplistic notions of "unity," and especially the spurious unity by going to the WRONG pole of false fundamental dichotomies' bifurcations, shall continue to be the impossible ideals that will cause the opposite to then really happen.

Genuine solutions may emerge from enough people
understanding enough how human beings operated
according to the methods of organized crime,
because they were entropic pumps of energy.

That is the ONLY genuine "Unity" that should be
better appreciated, to develop better ways to be
"dominated enough, or controlled enough."

The SUBTRACTIONS and resulting ROBBERIES
behind ideas of some PRIVATE PROPERTY,
which includes any idea about MONEY,

are basic to the way human minds operate,
as entropic pumps of general energy flows.

Actual unity is due to the same energy,
through the dynamic equilibria of the
systems of lies operating robberies.

The runaway privatization of the planet is based upon greater and greater systems of ENFORCED FRAUDS. One of the symptoms of that are the creation of more "money" out of nothing as debts, driving there to develop numbers which have become debt insanities. As those debt insanities trend more and more towards provoking death insanities, the basic ways that private property was ALWAYS based on backing up claims with coercions, while money was ALWAYS based on measurement backed by murder, become MORE IMPORTANT.

WITHIN the currently established systems we ARE collectively like "Frogs In Boiling Water." There continues to be almost nothing but organized crime surrounded by controlled opposition groups. Meanwhile, people making "money" INSIDE those systems tend to deliberate ignore the overall consequences of their successfully participating in being able to back up measurements with murders.

However, in my view the correct response to that is NOT to continue to promote impossible ideals, but rather, to attempt to address those issues that money is NECESSARILY backed by murder, and that, therefore, the approaching death insanity situations, provoked by the runaway debt insanity numbers, shall require some radical rethinking of the meaning of those death control systems.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 17:17 | 6004428 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Enough with quantitative posting!

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 22:01 | 6005330 TheAnswerIs42
TheAnswerIs42's picture

Always with the quantitative posting!

 

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 16:49 | 6004324 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

we are not going to solve this problem by taking on more and more debt

wrong - cause Krugman says so.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 17:00 | 6004365 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Help!

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 17:50 | 6004561 deerhunter
deerhunter's picture

Since we went off the gold standard our dollars have only been accepted as payment because of perceived value. It's the reason you will nothing for them in barter when SHTF. Liquor, tampons and toilet paper. Soon to be common currency. Stack on .

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 19:07 | 6004836 I Write Code
I Write Code's picture

 

we are not going to solve this problem by taking on more and more debt

No, but isn't it fun trying!

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 20:48 | 6005158 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

is there an accounting of the amount of money that is to be paid to service existing debt to term?

 

existing loans, with all principal/interest to be paid to pay it off that is.

 

and is that number less than the amount held as cash?

 

if the answer is no, more debt will be needed and growth will not be possible without it, or default and use of that cash toward growth spending.

Fri, 04/17/2015 - 23:34 | 6005549 Magooo
Magooo's picture

Hey Rick I will let you use my copywrite protected phrase royalty free on cnBS so long as you say you got it from ZH:

 

WE ---- ARE ----- FUCKED

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!