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What A Cashless Society Would Look Like
Submitted by Erico Matias Tavares via Sinclair & Co.,
Calls by various mainstream economists to ban cash transactions seem to be getting ever more louder.
Bills and coins account for about 10% of M2 monetary aggregates (currency plus very liquid bank deposits) in the US and the Eurozone. Presumably the goal of this policy is to bring this percentage down to zero. In other words, eliminate your right to keep your purchasing power in paper currency.
By forcing people and companies to convert their paper money into bank deposits, the hope is that they can be persuaded (coerced?) to spend that money rather than save it because those deposits will carry considerable costs (negative interest rates and/or fees).
This in turn could boost consumption, GDP and inflation to pay for the massive debts we have accumulated (leaving aside the very controversial idea that citizens should now have to pay for the privilege of holding their hard earned money in a more liquid form, after it has already been taxed). So at long last we can finally get out of the current economic funk.
The US adopted a policy with similar goals in the 1930s, eliminating its citizens’ right to own gold so they could no longer “hoard” it. At that time the US was in the gold standard so the goal was to restrict gold. Now that we are all in a “paper” standard the goal is to restrict paper.
However, while some economic benefits may arguably accrue in the short-run, this needs to be balanced in relation to some serious distortions that could rapidly develop beyond that.
Pros and Cons
To be most effective, banning cash would most likely need to be coordinated between the US and the EU. Otherwise if only one of the two Western economic blocks were to do it, the citizens of that block might start using the paper currency of the other, thereby circumventing the restrictions of this policy. Can’t settle your purchase in paper euros? No problem, we’ll take US dollar bills.
This is just one aspect that can give us a glimpse of the wide ranging consequences this policy would have. Let’s quickly consider some pros and cons, as we see them:
Pros:
- Enhance the tax base, as most / all transactions in the economy could now be traced by the government;
- Substantially constrain the parallel economy, particularly in illicit activities;
- Force people to convert their savings into consumption and/or investment, thereby providing a boost to GDP and employment;
- Foster the adoption of new wireless / cashless technologies.
Cons:
- The government loses an important alternative to pay for its debts, namely by printing true-to-the-letter paper money. This is why Greece may have to leave the euro, since its inability or unwillingness to adopt more austerity measures, a precondition to secure more euro loans, will force it to print drachma bills to pay for its debts;
- Paper money costs you nothing to hold and carries no incremental risk (other than physical theft); converting it into bank deposits will cost you fees (and likely earn a negative interest) and expose you to a substantial loss if the bank goes under. After all, you are giving up currency directly backed by the central bank for currency backed by your local bank;
- This could have grave consequences for retirees, many of whom are incapable of transacting using plastic. Not to mention that they will disproportionately bear the costs of having to hold their liquid savings entirely in a (costly) bank account;
- Ditto for very poor people, many of whom don’t have access to the banking system; this will only make them more dependent, in fact exclusively dependent, on government handouts;
- We wonder if the banks would actually like to deal with the administrative hassle of handling millions of very small cash transactions and related customer queries;
- Illegal immigrants would be out of a job very quickly – a figure that can reach millions in the US, creating the risk for substantial social unrest;
- If there is an event that disrupts electronic transactions (e.g. extensive power outage, cyberattack, cascading bank failures) people in that economy will not be able to transact and everything will grind to a halt;
- Of course enforcing a government mandate to ban cash transactions must carry penalties. This in turns means more regulations, disclosure requirements and compliance costs, potentially exorbitant fees and even jail time;
- Banning cash transactions might even propel the demise of the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency. The share of US dollar bills held abroad has been estimated to be as high as 70% (according to a 1996 report by the US Federal Reserve). One thing is to limit the choices of your own citizens; another is trying to force this policy onto others, which is much harder. Foreigners would probably dump US dollar bills in a hurry and flock to whichever paper currency that can offer comparable liquidity.
In light of the foregoing does banning cash transactions make sense to you? Aren’t the risks at all levels of society just too large to be disregarded?
Unintended Consequences
Paper money can be thought of as a form of interest-free government borrowing and therefore as a saving to the taxpayer. Given the dire situation of Western government finances, probably the very last thing we should do right now is to ban cash transactions.
Think about it. If the government prints bills and coins to settle its debts, rather than issuing bonds, it does not add to its snowballing debt obligations. Of course the counterargument is that this might result in significant inflation once politicians put their hands directly on the printing press. But isn’t this what the mainstream economists are so desperately trying to do to avoid deflation?
And it’s not like people in the West have tons of cash under the mattress. Let’s do the math. If only 30% of US paper money is held by residents, this is only about 2% of GDP, and probably unevenly distributed. It is therefore very dubious that any boost to economic activity will be that significant. In fact there is no empirical evidence that demonstrates this policy will work as intended (not that this has ever stopped a mainstream economist)
Moreover, an economy’s ability to create money would be even more impaired if its banking system were to crash – exactly at the time when it would need it the most. In reality it could be hugely deflationary because there would be no other currency alternatives. Talk about unintended consequences.
As to who could replace the US in providing paper liquidity to the world, we don’t need to think too hard. China will surely not ban cash transactions given that almost a billion of its citizens are still quite poor and most have no access to banking services (plus it seems that their own economic advisors are much more sensible). Replacing the US in offshore cash transactions would create substantial demand for the Chinese yuan, at that stage without any real competition from other major economies as presumably none would be using paper.
It is therefore doubtful that US political leaders would ever endorse such a policy; they would be effectively giving up on an incredible advantage – the US dollar ATM, to the benefit of their main geopolitical competitors. However, given the considerable influence of mainstream economists in financial and political circles this cannot be ruled out, especially during a crisis.
And it would be just the latest in a set of unprecedented economic policies:
“A depression is coming? Let’s put interest rates at zero. The economy is still in trouble? Let’s have the central bank print trillions in new securities. The banks are not lending? Let’s change the accounting rules and offer government guarantees and funds. People are still not spending? Let’s have negative interest rates. The economy is still in the tank? LET’S BAN CASH TRANSACTIONS!”
More Central Planning
The problem is that central planners never know how and where to stop. If a policy doesn’t work, they just find a way to tinker somewhere else – and with more vigor. Devolving the initiative back to the private sector is never an option.
Micromanagement of every single detail of our economic lives thus seems to be inevitable. And at that point there will be no more free markets. As pointed out by Friedrich von Hayek, “the more the state plans the more difficult planning becomes for the individual.”
Banning cash transactions seems like yet another excuse to postpone implementing real solutions to our financial problems. How can we have sustainable growth in the economy if:
- The banks are not solid enough to lend?
- Consumers are not solid enough to borrow?
- Overindebted municipalities, states and governments seek ever more tax revenues?
- An already overburdened private sector is underwriting the cost of every policy error?
The guys and gals who generate real wealth and employment need encouragement and support, not more penalties on how they choose to go about their business.
A cash ban does not address any substantive issues. What is needed is a sensible economic proposal and above all political courage to implement it, which so far seems to be lacking.
There are no free lunches in economics. A cashless society is promising to have very tangible costs to our liberties and future prosperity.
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But how will CIA sell their Afghani product?
All vice will become legal and taxed.
you're missing the point.
if it's all legal and taxed, how will the cia fund their black-budget ops?
CIA will roll out the new 'DopeAmericard'. They promise that all transactions will remain strictly between you and them.
gold...
TPTB hate that they can't shut down (or risk tipping of the sheep/slaves) the tiny subset of the population that figured out the FIAT money creation scam (and who subsequently buy/hoard PMs enmasse). So this is an incredible moment in history to acquire PMs and get rid of this fruadulent paper shit paraded as fucking 'money'. Ignore the daily price movements and just keep stackin. It's getting very close to judgement day now.
TPTB hate
Nailed it.
Would y'all bitchez please start behaving like proper goyim? If not -1 from secret jooo agent.
No secret. I junked you.
And your mama.
Das Rayciss.
If this happens, stick a fork in us; we're done. The Feral Gubmint gives feral animals a bad name. Personally, I will be blackmailing any feral gubmint official I can. Wife fell off of a cliff? Fuck you, pay me. Dog got run over? Fuck you, pay me. And I don't take credit/debit cards. The "Goodfellas" business model will reign. TPTB r robnume.
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Global Marxism
Cashless, schmashless. Ain't gonna happen folks. More fear mongering.
At this point, what diff? No one got any 'kin cash anyway.
"...Substantially constrain the parallel economy, particularly in illicit activities.."
This is exactly why it will never happen. Too much money being made laundering this illegal economy.
What the IRS did to the Tea Party is nothing compared to what the psychos in Fed Gov. will be able to do to you if they can control your access to digital "money". Anyone who challenges the system will have their ability to access funds cut off and then good luck to you after that. The only reason they are talking this up is because it will allow them to suppress political dissent. To those in FED Gov. the suppression of dissent is the only thing that matters.
This has been 100 years in the making.
How did the paperless society work out?
That was 20 years ago.
And my credit union now charges $2.12 a month for mailing me a statement.
Time to switch to a less greedy credit union.
Flat out refuse, reject, non participate in anything coming from Govt or banks.
Find away around it. Quit buying shit you don't need.
All you need is another flag folks.
Just put it up, have those with like mind live next to you and declare yourself a new country. That is all it takes, that's how the europeans stole thisfrom the Indians, they had no flags.
They brought fresh flags, sure.
But the Europeans also brought used blankets and new diseases.
I suspect the Owners can take THIS place back the same way, with more imported settlers from some other overcrowded, stinking hellhole. And they will bring plenty of free used blankets for the survivors, who are suddenly strapped for cash.
You realize the government wants to take your cash and your guns, right?
What do you ultimately get out of this deal?
Throw in the TPP and its effect on the working class.
What kind of an America are you leaving your children?
Do you want communism?
I see no one in Congress making the obvious connections.
Connect the dots people.
You realize the government wants to take your cash and your guns, right?
Yes...
They've already shown their true colors...think Operation Choke Point.
Imagine trying to buy guns or ammo in their cashless society.
Asymmetric warfare, coming to a town near you.
There is no opposition party in the government.
Until that is identified by more people, nothing is opposed.
It will happen.
You will be living in a communist state.
Mandatory use of banks where every card swipe is profit. Where does it end?
---
If you have money they will come after it, read Greece.
Buy a weapon and learn how to use it.
7,62X51 45ACP 9X19 molon labe
Take the economist/banksters suggesting this and jail them with hardened criminals for the rest of their natural lives. Problem solved.
Gumball machine with a card swipe?
Funny--right on. Milestones
You state "The US adopted a policy with similar goals in the 1930s, eliminating its citizens’ right to own gold so they could no longer “hoard” it."
The government wanted to stop the public from redeeming their paper gold certificates for actual gold in banks. It was a prelude to counterfeiting even more paper money by the Fed. By 1945 only 17% of dollars were backed by gold. After 1944 only foreign countries could redeem dollars for physical gold. Of course the criminals at the Fed kept right on counterfeiting the dollar.
The Fed is a criminal cabal of paper counterfeiters and their bluff was finally called in 1971 when they ran out of gold to redeem paper dollar claims on physical gold from foreign countries. Counterfeited paper currencies last about 40 years till they go to zero so we're about right on schedule.
We're being Harvested already? Wait I'm to young still
please kind sirs
A cashless publicly owned financial system run by open source software where anyone caught with over 10,000,000 gets sent to the pyramids, lit on fire and launched from the tops. And to set an example we start with existing banksters and existing CEOs before giving a grace period to liquidate all corporate assets into the hands of the people of the world (no more than 5,000,000 each). Financial perversion shall not be tolerated in the new society.
Do they really print bill and coins to settle debt? We have digital zeros.
This is NOT going to go over well. There's so much shit going on now it's almost unreal. I'm just about to the point of wanting a partial ww3 just to knock these fucks off their pedestals and take my gdm chances. Fuck this bullshit.
A cashless society is a fascist government and bankster wet dream.
There is a cash economy in the USA that the GREEDY banksters want control of: Rummage sales, farmers markets, Craig’s list, E-bay, cleaning lady, can collector, yard work, handyman, weed dealer, mechanic work and many others compose an undercurrent economy. The government fascist want tax and the banksters want total control of ALL markets and financial transactions.
A cashless society is a totalitarian fascist society. Bingo! The end of the gold and silver bugs and Bitcoin.
Baaa! Baaa! Welcome to your new world of Camden and Detroit at large or bring the bankster criminals to Justice.
No more open beggars or vagrants are one benefit.
Traceable accounts will curb elder abuse.
Don't the crooks in charge include hookers and drugs in the GDP? If cash is eliminated all this underground employment will be greatly reduced and perhaps the people doing these things (and I have no problem with any of it) will not have an income anymore, will not be subject to criminal charges for those activities, thus bail bondsmen, lawyers, prison industrial complexe, cops, etc. etc. will lose a large customer base. A huge part of the economy will evaporate and the GDP will plummet. They are stupid enough to do it and it will just push down on the yoke of USSA Airlines.
What am I supposed to pay for my poon-tang with,tins of smoked anchovies?
I'd stockpile penicillin variants.
You're gonna need them....
"Forcing people into bank deposits"? TPTB won't even consider photo ID required to vote as it would be a hardship for so many. How the hell are you going to get all of the people to open a bank account? Disconnect!
It's going to make PMs immediately attractive for illicit activities. And it's going to make people finally think about what money is. It would almost certainly backfire massively and reveal how clueless the oligarchs are about unintended consequences. How could it not? These clowns are like chess players who can only see one move ahead. What have they done lately that didn't have unforseen--by them--consequences????!!!
Bring it on I say.
I've just realised that there are several ways of literally growing your own money!
Obviously cannabis, (as good as cash & accepted by about 10-20% of young adults) but also there are other valuable plants...
If they ban cash, barter will likely become the new economy for poor people.
Right, we will be back to bartering for little pieces of copper and silver.
And rounds of ammo as barter.
I don't buy anything but groceries anymore, When I do buy extras it's on sale and when I am stocking up. Only a good sale will make me interested anymore. They want to watch my grocery list they can have at it.
For those with the time and bad attitude, go and buy ONE item, then the check stand. Get it bagged, put receipt in bag and go buy another item off your 27 item list and repeat above.
Wanta guess how long this crap will last?? Milestones
The cashless agenda is an act of war against the people. We are the government. Our public servants are not the government.
Does that mean illicit substances will no longer be...illicit? Seems like those same type of elitists are all in for medicinal whatever.
Ive followed the arguments about cashless, over many blogs, and all that strikes me is that the gov /ptb will find some way to gradually induce the society to go cashless .....yes, it started with anything over 10,000 in cash is obviously drug money and needs to be reported...and the banks dutifully complied....i don't know what the rest of the plan would be, other than it looks like a frog in slowly hotter water.
The facists will indemnify their own with a get out of jail card for their little transgressions, but in the end it is BIG BROTHER. I agree with some of these comments ...bring it on, and we'll have the final showdown as to who really has the power.
d'EBT arreddy be no cashes bruthahs...
Try 'cashless' in a pool hall.....they're just not hearing it.
Charities would collapse. Churches would crash. Flea markets collapse.
Fund raisers collapse. Kids would go penny less. Tooth fairy recipients would get coal instead.
We would create our own cash. Silver would be best.
Run, run! It's going to hurt!
Banning cash money means banning freedom.
This development seemes to be the direct result of gambling, Ponzi, greed, currency experiments and corrupption. It's kind of slavery - financial and poltical bosses own total control.
However this mind-game will end - it gives us an outlook of what will be reality in the medium- or (not too) long-term. Step by step.
And divorce rates skyrocketing. My wife is fine with me going to strippers on a 'guy trip' once a year. But if she see's a $900 bill at one, different story. I'll stick with cash. It works when there's no power, it works for kids mowing my lawn, it works for getting my food from local farmers.......Fuck our government, lets all use silver again.
Go Bitcoin!
As long as garage sales, unlicensed contractors, hookers, drug dealers, gamblers, contract workers, atm cash dispensers and people like me are around, don't worry, it won't happen.
Reportedly a utitlity here tried opening a cashless office to process payments. They had to end up accepting cash.
People like me stay away from banks as they are no longer to be trusted with your coin. Any .gov agency can seize or freeze an account. Happened to me once the day before payday when I had 35 employees to pay.
I have the government send me an old fashioned paper check for pension. They tried to get me into a bank account for direct deposit. I said screw you, it is my money and is there a law that says I need a bank account? The answer was there is no law. I told .gov I want it check or cash.
The big brother thing has gone way too far. I would be happy if they fire 3/4 of the government's employees as they don't do anything to help me with my life, just increase the burdens.
Thanks, I read it. How having a bank account or not will reduce poverty is beyond me.
They want people's money. Nothing is for nothing in this world. So you get a bank account and still make minimum wage so you won't be as poor, but you find out you still can't live like the person making $100 k a year.
That one makes sense.
There are a lot of unbanked or underbanked households.
The bottom line for many is income, period.
Many people have to exist out of the system. How often can you open a bank account without any money or pay for service fees when you are already stretched. I would rather have the service fee in my wallet.
This is a ploy to finance an industry which does nothing but suck people dry. They have automated everything pretty much inside the banks, putting people out of work. If you don't have a good credit rating, what kind of bullshit do they mean when they say financial services. It is just a waste of time asking a bank to loan you $500 as you are in a pinch. Fuck them.
I remember one teller being forced into tears as her clothes weren't good enough, she was a single mom who worked less that thrity six hours a week at the bank as the bank did not want to pay benefits while their top 'employee' made millions every year. Finally the managers wife took her out and bought her some clothes. I know as her boss was my ex.
They can stick it. I like convenience as much as the next person and banks used to open at 9 and close at 3 and never on the weekends. When you walked in the officers all thought they were God and looked down upon the lowly beggars. That attitude is still there in some places.
And let's not forget that very soon hookers and drugs will be included in the GDP, or some other number they need to make up to prop the markets for a little while longer
I think it's the best idea yet.
Get that left hand side of the bell curve fired up where most of the poor impulse control crowd lives and watch the fireworks.
The shock troops don't need to be too bright.
over half of the real economy is already cash only, and this would just drive it the rest of the way underground, there would be the official white no cash economy, and the black market cash only economy that supports the white one.....
well, it would look kind of like this
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Mark-Of-The-B...
nothing will change, just nazi-usa will come out.
I would like just once, to see a bank say no to the government, take it to the supreme court and win in respect to them reporting 'suspicious' transactions and more.
And no freezing an account without a court order and with you present to make sure it is legit.
It won't happen as the banks are traitors to their own customers.
banks= usa government
"It won't happen as the banks are traitors to their own customers."
We are not their customers.
We are their creditors
Would you defend your creditors in court?
I rememebr the days when EFTPOS first came in.....
I said to someone what is that?
Is that like....Greek for no cash?
You don't have to know history...
you just have to trust your gut.
I doubt they will just go to a cashless model. They are a lot more astute than what you may think. They will fool people with a crypto-currency like bitcoin or something else. When you know somebody is watching you are in a alert state. When you relax and "think" you are ok. Well thats when you play the game they want you to play.
Dear Sir, please educate yourself on what bitcoin is and why it is the last thing any authoritarian government would want. Thank you.
LOL !!! Herd : ) ) !!
hmmm...I give cold fusion a more likely occurance in my lifetime versus a cashless society. As several posters have commented, the underground economy (hell, the drug economy) would be seriously impaired...and that is not going to happen. There will be a woman in the White House first....er...
hmmm...I give cold fusion a more likely occurance in my lifetime versus a cashless society. As several posters have commented, the underground economy (hell, the drug economy) would be seriously impaired...and that is not going to happen. There will be a woman in the White House first....er...
There is a War on Cash being waged by the oligarchy all over the world. From Greece to Switzerland to the United States, governments are talking about outlawing the use of physical currency. This new reality might be closer than you think.
http://www.globaldeflationnews.com/governments-are-secretly-preparing-to...
For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Take away cash? Society will overnight become barterers. Something of value (stored labor) which might be anything from gold/silver to salt, wheat, corn or toilet paper. More likely the later examples first followed by standardized asset backing in precious metals. Regrets for those whose capital is then trapped in the system. Electronic digits that someone else uses for benefit without risk compensation to it's owners. The last leg that the Fed rests upon would be kicked out from under it. Banning cash will be their last act of supidity. Why end the Fed if the Fed is ending itself? Bring it on!
What people forget is that the attempt to ban cash is a one-shot deal. Once you go down that road there's no going back. Unless you are certain it will succeed, you risk losing it all. If, instead of 'corralling' your currency, you destroy it, all wealth IN that currency goes bye-bye. The wealthiest folks on the planet have SIGNIFICANT wealth in dollar-denominated things. That's a HUGE gamble, even for this crowd, and so these folks won't let you roll the dice on that without some very solid odds.
And the odds are not good, for any such ban will certainly fail. For many reasons, most listed here in this comment section. TPTB know this too, and so while they will engage in the mental masturbation of TALKING about a cashless economy, it will remain a pleasant distraction(for them).
And about the tax collection and crime issues? Don't kid yourself...although the money we're talking about is big, TPTB also know that the 'underground economy' is keeping alot of people from the kind of desperation that takes down regimes. In the absence of any realistic options for dealing with all these folks, TPTB have no choice but to leave things alone, for now anyway. There are too many to jail, too many to appease, so they'll leave the economy that keeps them quiet unmolested for the time being. They know damned well that they don't HAVE decent jobs for all those people. Nor can they afford to support all of them. As long as the 'underground economy' keeps them from rioting, it will be left alone. TPTB would much rather have crime and tax evasion than have to admit they HAVE no other options for people...it also gives them a scapegoat for covering up their own shortcomings-they can blame 'tax cheats' and other criminals for economic woes instead of having to admit their own policies have been utter failures.
In Orwell's 1984, the Party only enforced their strict rules upon its own members, and the proles had books and other things forbidden to Party members. As long as the proles kept to their areas and didn't cause trouble, they were monitored but left largely alone. Though Party rhetoric said the proles were incapable of rebellion (too 'sheeple-like') they also recognized the wisdom of appeasing them enough to keep them quiet. Their numbers were just too huge to risk open confrontation. Even if our modern day "Party" decides to push cashless, they too will have to allow for a vast "prole" economy to keep the masses from becoming restless and dangerous.
What a cashless society would look like: "Imagine a big red, white and blue dick fucking a human asshole, forever."
Minorities and the poor can't get an ID to vote but they will be just fine in a cashless society?
I should be apparent to all that control is coming and will soon be mandated:
Item 0001 Cash is eliminated - Give them trouble and they cut your electronic money off...
Item 0002 Health care is centralized - They treat those who produce all others slowly die with little care…
Item 0003 Cars that drive themselves- Sorry to limit gas consumption your car is not programmed to drive to that location…
Item 0004 Electric Utility Usage - Due to global climate change we must shut down coal electric plants and limit your electricity usage (or raise your bill to unheard of rates)…
Item 0005 Water Utility Usage - To limit water usage you get XXX gallons a week then auto shut off (or sky high water bills)
…. …...
Item 8198 Total vegetarian diet - Item 4023 ending meat and fish so now all must eat only plant food
Item 8199 National Pot Plan - You will all be issued pot to keep you placated so you don’t riot because you have lost all Freedom from items 1 to 8198
And with these items inforced you will now live in America just like a detainee in a Federal prison while the .01% in the oligarchy has all of what you used to have.
sorry to be a dick, but the headline "cashless" reminded me of my college student. She aint go no cash. Except for the cash I front her.
Who really gives a shit today?
The negative interest rates and fees won't survive the first Congressional election after it was passed.
Your first 'pro' was your best:
Still 'going cashless' is like the saying "the game isn't worth the candle?"
We'll just have to wait until 'Big Brotherism' is moar firmly entrenched
A society without a currency creates one by consensus, because it's just so damn useful.
In Europe just after WWII the currency was packages of American cigarettes. In modern U.S. prisons, it is booklets of postage stamps, or tins of mackerel (Seriously - http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122290720439096481 ).
If the US were to try a cashless society, we'd all have pockets full of Canadian cash or car trunks full of Canadian Club in less than a month.
To have a cashless society is for everyone to have a bank account but you can't get an account unless you have a chip installed.... solution: you can always take one or more with you.
Bank of America and CNBC are doing their part to steer the herd.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102691954
Just ban any bills over $10 or maybe $20 and you leave charities and seniors and MickeyD's and school kids alone - but every major purchase or drug money or bribes will get tracked electronically or else will require a substantial stack of paper fiat.
A cashless society will not prevent the predation and societal leeches from taking advantage of the weak, sick & dying. A case in point, this family of psychopaths...
'Fake Cancer Charities Gave Sick Kids Expired Meds and Little Debbie Cakes'http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/19/fake-cancer-charities-g...
Never gonna happen. There are so many FRN's outside of the US, the Treasury runs commercials on overseas flights informing people that the old design $100's are just as good as the new design $100's. If they tried to go cashless, the dollar would crash overnight.
"What A Cashless Society Would Look Like"
Like this: Tyranny^2
A so-called cashless society can only be implemented from the barrel of a gun.
Liberty is a demand. Tyranny is submission.
Turn on the "No Vacancy" light in hell, guillotine all the banksters.
To all those who suggest banning cash I simply say "fuck off". But to really let them know how we feel we should pick a day in the near future to vote with our feet and our wallets on this issue.
I'm calling it "Fractional Reserve Day"! On Tuesday, May 28th we should all reload after the three day weekend with some fresh cash! I say anybody and everybody who has an ATM card and an extra hundred bucks in your account to pull it out on the same day. Heck, if just 25% of the population could pull it off it would rip $7.9B from the system.
It's time to kick this fiat bitch to the curb. Experiment OVER!
They do this and you'll see some creativity by those that oppose at the local substation. Want cashless? Power got fucked: now what genius? 72 hours and all hell would break loose.
Well, have the assholes decided if they are going to ban cars or what? Cars are another cash business and one that has caught my eye. So much so that I now have five cars but I am not too proud of the pile of shit I bought tonight at auction. I have been going to this monthly car auction event and seeing what is going on. I am a veteran of auctions but not for the purpose of flipping cars. Somehow I managed to buy my first car tonight, a 2002 Impala, with 18 trillion miles on it. I didn't even see that car out in the lot pre-sale and if I had, I would not have bought it. All I remember is that I bid $350 and I won the bid at $450. What? I must need a hearing aid in my old age or something. So $450 plus $195 sellers vig and $141.25 for the Fucking statists for tax, title and license. Uggh. "Why do I have to register the vehicle here?" I asked. "Do you have a dealer's license Sir?". "Well, no but I have about 50 other licenses" I said. They laughed. Aww fuck me.
If I am going to play this game then I need to learn more aboiut how I am going to play it if I want to make money fucking around with it. Here is the thing, it is all a cash business except if you are a dealer which at auction you really are not supposed to be a dealer. I need to learn more about that part. At rate, the car runs and drives and the reason I bought it was that it had brand new 16" Voxx wheels and brand new Firestone tires on it all the way around. Why anyone did that I have no idea. That has to be at least $600-$800 right there but the problem is that they are attached to the car which makes them worth far less. That means if I want to make some money then I have to find a set of tires and rims at the junkyard for Impala. That is doable because GM made a lot of those rims so they should be out there. How much though? It is worth it? Maybe.
The reason I am doing this is that I know my way around machines fairly well and can do much of my own mechanical work. I can't say that I love wrenching on shit but it is better than failing on facebook. In the end you really don't see any cars for sale that run and drive for less then $1500-$2000 so maybe not so bad? I would rather be a private seller for cash. I far as I am concerend that car can go tomorrow and we do have a prospective buyer already. I know five other folks who are looking for used cars of various types and I let some much better cars walk by me than I should have. That Mustang sort of hurts but I know myself that I would have kept it. I bid twice on it. I let it go over $50. There is no way to make money if you let your emotions take control and some people do let that happen. There is a limited market for certian types of vehicles.
The cash for clunkers bullshit really elevated the prices for any operating vehicles. I have always been in the market for something decent but now it "Will the fucking thing go down the road or not?". You don't know that at auction. You have no idea what you will get other if it runs or not. Everyone is looking for cheap cars these days so I am not fucked per se. I guess I can't see where any vehicle that runs or drives is not worth at least 1K CASH. Still I wonder about some of my fucking "brilliant" ideas.;-) For all I know, it is probably somehow illegal for me to buy a car one day and sell it the next day.
That can't be right....
They keep telling us the economy is Improving, and each time it improves the Interest Rate drops. The reverse must also be true, when the Economy is doing really bad they put the Interest Rate up because they don't want to loan any more money into existance.
The way the economic prospects of the non Elite is fading fast, cashless won't have to be an edict.
Louisianna banned cash at garage sales. Bobby Jindal signed it into law in 2011.
http://www.naturalnews.com/033882_Louisiana_cash.html
Being all digital won't directly stop the govt from digitally printing.
Yes he did. However, it has never been enforced, not in any meaningful way. No one is patrolling yard sales and arresting people.
Because it is a STUPID and UNENFORCEABLE law, that's why! It 'makes a statement', and that's it.
The first time it is actually enforced, a lawsuit will be filed, and that will spell the end of Louisiana's anti-cash 'law'.
While it may be up to a particular seller to decide how he wants to be paid, no government has the right to 'ban' legal tender for ANY transactions, especially private ones.
But this is the thing about stupid laws...they can pass easily, but just TRY to enforce them. As long as you don't, you won't generate any challenges, and that stupid law will remain there until it IS challenged.
The fact that Louisiana has such a law on their books means nothing. Let's see what happens when they are challenged on it. (I'm betting it will NEVER be enforced, because lawmakers KNOW they will lose any challenge. The last thing an empty-threat maker wants is to have to back up his words...)
Cashless society:
1) you get your money on your welfare debit card if you vote right.
2) you can buy only certain products with it
3) you can buy only at certain malls with it
If governments ban cash, something parallel will sprout up. Since dawn of mankind people bought drugs, prostitution, gave bribes, gifts. People wouldn't like to have such transactions traced. If governments ban cash, people will use some other solid currency or metals to conduct such transactions and the country that bans cash lattest profits the most.
"If governments ban cash, something parallel will sprout up."
yep. That something is called "free market". Governements do hate them.
Apparently is spying people somehow unsatisfied for the government . So now they know exactly how you spent your money.
And gone is your privacy.
So what will happen ....? Everybody wants to own....rubles. Yes putin has backed his currency with gold.
Putin will open up his borders and will stimulate free trade, free markets, no TPP's, or TTIP's.
Thats is called competition !
Google Wallet The Real Money ©®
Coke The Real Thing ©®
Bitcoin is the only exit from the clusterfuck.
Cash is still just lowly fiat.
Pros:
Enhance tax base.
Taxing is immoral. it is done with force ! And thats a con !
Constraining a parallel economy is an other word for constraining free market ! And thats a con !
Forcing people to spent their money in a non profitable trade is immoral and will unbalance the economy further. And thats a con !
Big brother is fully uncapable to receive market signals to know which technologies should have to be developed, if there is no free market. If there is no free market their are no signals by wanted goods. And thats a con !
so .......
Working for Sinclair & Co is fun ?
In Europe there is no such things as personal checks. Not for at least 20 years. EVeryone must have a bank account or you are an illegal or vagrant.
This is for the guy who says he would demand to be paid in paper check.
We also have very few banks anymore with tellers. All closed to save money and now only branch offices with a couple of people to help you with other financial matters or to show you how to do it online.
ABN-Amro (my bank), Rabobank, ING . all Dutch banks all did this over 5 years ago.
German banks same thing.
To open an account here you need 3 pieces if ID, one biometric. They issue you a debit card for your current account (what americans call checking account) this is where all your salaries, rebates, wages are sent to., Also its used for Cash withdrawals at ATM's, Most banks give automatic 5000 euro overdraft in case you use your debit card for hotels , car rentals etc overseas. You only get a CREDIT card if you request it,
OH and before anyone asks. The ABN-AMRO debit card looks just like a credit card and can be used at ATM';s world wide.
Car rentals and hotels, etc, accepts it as a Credit card even though its a DEBIT CARD. so you are spending YOUR money, just as you would with a checking account.
+1 correct, the most usual card is a debit card, not a credit card, even when they look identical
you have forgotten to mention that in europe cash is used way more then in the US... even, or perhaps even particularly in countries that try to restrict the use of cash
See the hypocrisy? To open an account here you need 3 pieces if ID, one biometric.
Then you go to an ATM and pull cash for your needs.
They keep talking cashless but cash still exists.
I am glad I don't live in Europe. Sounds like they have no freedom there either. Sometimes being cutting age modern is actually sending a person back into the lines the germans liked to put people in during ww2
Finally, for those of us who prefer to do things cash only, why do they feel the need to push their will on us? Forcing us to choose between living well and barely living?
To fight terrorism, laundering?
Or to line their own pockets and insure that the hierarchy is still valid.
I will choose barely living over giving in.
HAHA, I assure you I am far more free here in Europe than in the USA and I lived in the USA for 35 years.
BTW, it is TOTALLY ILLEGAL here for the govt to put a hold on your bank account. Its a felony.
But I bet they would do it in the USA.
It still amazes me how many Americans think they know everything about Europe and spew bullshit here,
Most have never been outside of their COUNTY much less COUNTRY.
http://www.nu.nl/buitenland/4007483/belgische-supermarktketen-betaalde-z...
prepaid credit card was until recently obtainable in France without ID.
Still the case ?
ahhh....so the "Ye will neither buy nor sell without the mark" .gov finds you offencive and they put a hold on your CC/Debit account
So if this totalitarian bankster scam gets enforced all our kids (not to mention geriatrics) will be walking around with debit or credit cards every time they make a "transaction" at the candy store of which the bankster filth will get their cut? No no you say..."We'll chip the little bastards from birth and then the banksters will control the human product and its derivatives from the get go".
Sure and the €uromercan mob will go along with all this garbage without so much as a whimper. Dream on....
Another unintended consequence:
Loss of tourism. Many tourists from South America and Asia come with cash that they changed in their own country. It is much cheaper to convert cash in a currency exchange shop that to pay the banking fees.
ex: if I go to NY from Paris on holidays and I pay the hotel in USD with my French credit card, I must pay exchange fees of 10% to the bank.
ex2: if I change my EUR in a currency exchange shop I will pay less than 1% fees.
Totally WRONG pure bullshit., you get the best rates at an ATM in the country you are visiting.
I know about these things because I draw my Social Security every month at my corner ATM. NO fees and I get the interbank rate,
This is another myth that keeps being spread.
Do NOT ever change money at airport currency exchanges, you get the WORST rates.,
You make think I am lying but check it out for yourself.
You do not know what you are talking about. Anyway. Let the idiots lose money. I cannot care less.
I don't know what I am talking about? HAHA. says the clueless Bozo .
Tell you what, kid. Why don't you try and debunk what I just posted.
You won't because its YOU that doesn't know shit from Shinola.
Again, you are so full of shit. The ATM's give you the interbank rate updated every 5 seconds.
Like I said, Bozo,. I get paid in both dollars and Euros so I know what I am talking about.
BTW, I sit here with a currency rate widget on my PC Desktop and sometimes I wait half a day before going to my ATM to with draw ALL my SS at once. Sometimes I make an extra 10 euros by waiting a couple of hours.
And I did the maths and the rate I got at the ATM was exactly what is quoted at Oanda rates.
btw. I never talked about airport currency shop that will rip you off.
You know why I get pissed off at people like you? Because you post bullshit and are doing a disservice to people who don't know.
You are such an ignorant. It is painful.
I was trying to transfer money from Soc Gen to BOFA. From EURO to USD. The bid ask spread is more than 15%. Do you even know what a bid ask spread is?
Then I checked all the currencies shop in center Manhattan. The bid ask spread is less than 2%. Check by yourself moron.
I can transfer that right from my goddam smart phone you fucking MORON.
Simple and get the best rate. all you needis the IBAN number.
Geez what a fucking retard you are. living in the 20th century. this is the 21st century.
You are a true retard. I know how fucktards like you think. You think the USA is the big boy on the block and always right.
Fact is, MORON, you don't know a goddam thing about international banking.
I can buy and sell stocks and do all World wide exchanges from my ABN-AMRO Android APP.
all that is necessary is an IBAN number and BIC number of any bank. (easily found using Google).
Now piss off, and THAT is your lesson for the day.
Get up to date, Bozo!!!!!!!
Ban cash is to trap the citizens, so they can't escape out of the country.
????????????
WTF are you talking about?
I can get on a plane and go anywhere in the world with Zero cash, Get off the plane and walk over to an ATM and get CASH in local currency at the BEST bank rates.
Do not EVER change your money in your own country or at an airport.
As someone who has been to 73 countries and travelled for a living, I know what I am talking about.
But feel free to try and DEBUNK my assertions.
Banks are so nice. Waw. They provide services for free. Even to idiots who don't know how to count.
What a great society we live in.
Banks are so nice. Waw. They provide services for free. Even to idiots who don't know how to count.
What a great society we live in.
You are a moron. American banks fuck people . You don't listen to what I am saying and always you Americans think you know better.
Idiots.
Sorry I forgot that ABN and ING were the most virtous banks in the world.
Listen, Dumbo. How long have you iived in either USA or Europe? I have lived 35 years in the USA and now 27 years in Europe.
American banks Fleece and FUck people by nickel and diming them to death.
I pay 3 euros quarterly for my debit card which allows me to do virtually ANY transaction world wide from my SMARTPHONE.
The interest rate they charge if I dip into my 5000 euro overdraft is 11 percent.
American banks MUCH higher. OH and BTW I do have an American bank also in Chicago MB financial. It doesn't have near the services that ABN-AMRO or ING has. And they also charge all kinds of add-on fees,
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
no, european banks aren't virtuos at all
the difference between the way citizens are treated by banks in the US and the EU is something that needs great fortitude to admit: regulations
and it's in great part US regulations that were scrapped in 1999 which make the difference
this Great Scrapping Of Banking Regulations of 1999 changed the european megabank landscape, too, but left our retail banking landscape relatively unscathed
NO bank is virtous. A necessary evil. However, I have read enough horror stories about Americans and American bankers.
They fleece and fuck people.
Here in Europe, that banks are much better regulated and if they tried the crap that like Americans do they would be shut down quite quickly.
This guy I am arguing with is someone who doesn't want to learn anything. Simply not worth discussing REAL things with him. Waste of time.
https://www.abnamro.nl/en/personal/index.html
Americans will have a huge bill to pay when the waiter brings the check. Anyone 100 miles near Canadian border is likely to be questioned should they cross paths with officials. It's pretty freaky.
https://soundcloud.com/entheogen-3/sets/wake-up
KIlluminati - Mind Control
Prudentlady
"My entire family are US citizens, and never had a problem entering Canada. The problem is returning to the US. The last time we were returning from visiting my relatives in Toronto, we were detained at the Detroit border by US homeland security and questioned. The agents were very rude and arrogant. They told us to get out of the car, and go into the building where they locked us up in some kind of holding room. None of us have ever been subjects of a criminal investigation, but we sure felt like we were treated as dangerous criminals.
They refused to answer and question, but stated that they did not have to give an explanation, and that they had a right to. There should be an explanation as to why they locked us up for hours, including my young daughter and cousin. We all had our US passports, none of us have a criminal history, we are hard working taxpayers, yet we were treated like common criminals.
"When they decided to let us go after almost 4 hours, my car was totally ransacked. My car was 1 year old, and they had ripped the bottom cover from my car (I think it is a splash guard) that protect the bottom of the car. It was dragging as we drove off, and I had to stop and take it off completely. My husband arrived late at work, and I was not able to go to work that day. In addition, the two children were traumatized, and kept telling everyone that we were locked up by the police and that they were very scared. To date, no explanation was given.
Where is our right to free passage as written on our passports? Does those rights only pertain to other countries security at border crossings? How is it right that US citizens are prevented from re-entering their country freely? Even criminals are told why they are being arrested and given the right to representation. Yet, we were not even given the right to make a phone call, as they kept all our belongings including cellphones in the car. We were sent inside, and did not see when they searched my car, but it was a total mess when we returned to it"
'
Jun. 21 2014 06:23 PMhttp://www.onthemedia.org/story/my-detainment-story-or-how-i-learned-sto...Even years ago you could tell you were coming back in the USA at Detroit , Sarnia or Niagara Falls crossings.
Dirty delapidated buildings, potholed roads. It was totally obvious.
So, when is the lawsuit going to be filed? When it happens, link to it so we can see how it works out.
I would think there'd be some kind of legal action after this.
I no longer believe most of what I read anymore. Stories about abuse like this are very common, yet there are so few actual lawsuits filed. If something like that happened to me, I'd be haunting lawyers offices, the ACLU, the media, anyone and anything. I would also have said nothing to those agents but, "I want my lawyer, now!...I want my lawyer, now!...I want my lawyer NOW!"
Often, it turns out there is more to the story than is being told...
Unfortunately, our Supreme Court Jurisprudence is Well Settled on these issues:
Upon ENTRY at the Borders or via Air Travel, Broad Powers are Granted, which actually exceed that which Law Enforcement has within the Nation.
This was Settled Law Long Before September 11.
Basically, upon ENTRY ONLY the 4th Amendment does NOT apply.
"Substantially constrain the parallel economy, particularly in illicit activities;"
Lol. Depends on your definition of illicit. The corporatists' definition is probably any activity that isn't flowing through their tollbooth economies. So I would link the "cashless society" propaganda to that recent report about a State that hopes to ban the use of cash in selling second hand goods, i.e. they want to "monetize" all our activities for their own rentier needs.
Got anything good to barter?
I will give you 2 year old Galaxy S4 smartphone for your debit card and pin code.
Just upgraded to the S6.
Its rooted, and Custom ROM installed Lollipop 5.02 loaded with 135 apps many paid apps.
Regardless of the propaganda, the benefit of a cashless system resides solely with those in control.
The reason Economists want to outlaw cash is because they believe they know what to do with your money better than you do, and would like to steal it so that they can.
Hubris and fraud, shortly.
The irony is that when you understand the structure of fractional reserve banking, in which all so-called 'savings' is actually loaned out on a fractional reserve basis, the loans used to buy things, it is 100% clear that banning cash will have zero effect on spending.
The money is going to be spent whether you 'save' it in a bank account or not, and in fact requires an act of Federal Spending to come into existence in the first place.
Going 'cashless' is simply to enable the conversion of prison world's population into full chattel...which is to say to facilitate arbitrary confiscation.
What a load of rubbish. LOL
Its not going cashless perhaps smaller denominations of notes but not totally cashless.
BTW, Worlds biggest Prison is the USA Thats whey they call them 'cell phones' in the USA.
No where in the world do they call them that, Mostly called 'mobiles' or in Germany they have been called ''Handies'' for about 30 years. I was texting in Germany in 1994 LONG before Americans even knew what it was.
Do you have any children or grandchildren living on that wonderful continent with you? Or are you alone in paradise?
My wonderful wife and grown daugher who is an attorney living in London.
Good for them, probably safer there. Were not invaded and occupied (in a traditional sense) in recent history.
Which point is rubbish?
Do you deny that 'cash' is created by central banks when governments spend more than their tax receipts and issue a bond? With the bond occupying the CB's 'Asset' side of the transaction, while the newly issued cash occupies the 'Liabilities' column for the same transaction? Do you dispute this is how money is created under the CB system?
Do you deny that banks loan out deposits upto their reserve ratio? (Or point of fact, beyond their reserve ratio - hence all the 'dark pools'?)
Do you deny that loans are taken for the sole purpose of spending? Or that lacking a desire to spend there is no reason to take a loan?
Do you deny therefore, that cash will be spent under such a system regardless of whether or not it is 'saved'...because savings is loaned out on a fractional reserve basis - rehypothecated?
Do you deny that economists say they desire to outlaw cash because they believe it will improve the tools to deal with recessions?
Do you deny that outlawing cash only could possibly provide better tools to deal with recessions if the the lack of physical cash gave economists or otherwise the users of said tools the ability to spend your money in a way that you would not choose on your own? Or why would the tool require the absence of cash?
Do you deny that spending money in a way which the owner would not choose, and is unable to prevent, is in fact theft?
Do you deny that the presumption that one person knows how to spend all others' money better than they, without knowing the specific requirements of their lives, is at best arrogance and hubris, and at worst goal-seeking without regard for consequence?
Do you deny that a person who entirely lacks control of the fruits of their labor - money - is by definition chattel?
If you deny none of these (because, frankly you can't...they are facts) then the object of your appelation of 'rubbish' is unclear.