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Greece Invokes Nuclear Option: Tsipras Calls For Referendum
Update: Greek PM Alexis Tsipras has announced a referendum in a televised speech to the nation after another day of fractious negotiations with creditors closed without a deal.
The dramatic move comes after Athens rejected a proposal from the troika aimed at delivering some €16 billion in aid to Greece as part of an extension of the country's second bailout program.
- GREECE'S TSIPRAS SAYS CREDITORS POSED ULTIMATUM TO GOVT
- GREECE'S TSIPRAS SAYS CREDITORS PROPOSALS ARE AGAINST EU RULES
- TSIPRAS SAYS CREDITORS AIM TO HUMILIATE GREEK PEOPLE
- TSIPRAS SAYS WILL CALL REFERENDUM ON GREEK DEAL WITH CREDITORS
- TSIPRAS GREEK REFERENDUM WILL BE HELD ON JULY 5
- TSIPRAS SAYS HE NOTIFIED MERKEL, DRAGHI ON REFERENDUM PLAN
- TSIPRAS SAYS GREECE IS, AND WILL STAY PART OF EUROPE
- TSIPRAS SAYS GREECE NEEDS TO SEND DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE TO EU
Protothema now says the Greek parliament will meet on Saturday and a referendum will be called as early as next week. Whether this is simply a last minute attempt to put pressure on EU finance ministers ahead of Saturday's Eurogroup meeting remains to be seen, but one thing is for sure: Tsipras is playing a dangerous game with the ECB ahead of a difficult week that could very well see the imposition of capital controls.
???????? ????????? - ??????? ??? ?????????: ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ??????????? ?? ???? ????? http://t.co/J23WZiI8Cb
— ????? ???? (@protothema) June 26, 2015
More from Kathimerini:
The government is considering a referendum on the substance of the agreement, according to recent reports, during the enlarged meeting taking place from Friday night at the Maximos Mansion. The referendum is expected to be held next Sunday, while the prime minister has already informed the political leaders. The prime minister after returning from Brussels convened the extraordinary Governing Council at the Maximos Mansion, which after 23:00 turned into cabinet by attendance of ministers and party executives to discuss the latest developments and next steps in view of tomorrow's Eurogroup.
Earlier:
Protothema is reporting that Tsipras has confided in a fellow EU official that if the country's creditors insist on sticking to pension and VAT red lines and if Friday's bailout extension proposal (which the Greek government apparently views as a patronizing stopgap) is the troika's final offer, he is prepared to call for snap elections.
Via Protothema (Google translated):
The dramatic developments of the last few hours, following the government's move to reject the proposal of the creditors may conceal preparation for use of the popular verdict, a decision which is expected to be finalized in the next few hours if the lenders do not move from its rigid positions. According secure information protothema.gr, a few hours ago he Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras European leader confided in Eurozone member country adjacent friendly in Greece that the data are up to this moment is ready even to call early elections.
This revelation of thought by the Greek prime minister to the foreign leader can be interpreted in two ways: Either Mr. Tsipras is ready "plan B" if tomorrow the negotiation fails or leaked deliberately in order to exert indirect pressure on lenders to mitigate their requirements. Upon completion of the meeting Mr. Tsipras with Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande, the Greek side revealed that the Prime Minister pointed out to the leaders of Germany and France that does not understand why the institutions insist on so hard measures. The prime minister insisted his decision to reject the proposal of the creditors for a five-month extension of the existing agreement with a funding of 15.5 billion euros. "The proposal does not cover us, because the financial part of barely meets the needs for payment of installments to the lenders, not help anywhere else the economy," emphasized a close associate of Alexis Tsipras and adds: "We will not accept the proposal, as we said, we were waiting to bring us another proposal tomorrow."
Greece has rejected creditors' bailout extension proposal.
- GREECE SAID TO REJECT EU15.5B BAILOUT EXTENSION PROPOSAL: ANA
#Greece gov't rejects institutions' proposal for programme extension & funding of €15.5 bln (via @amna_news) #ec #ecb #imf #eurogroup
— Manos Giakoumis (@ManosGiakoumis) June 26, 2015
* * *
On Friday, the German press reported (and Bloomberg later confirmed) that Greece’s creditors had presented PM Alexis Tsipras with a document (essentially an outlining the following available funds that could theoretically be part of either an extension of the country’s second bailout or a third program (with the latter having been previously ruled out by the IMF and German lawmakers). The details are as follows:
- EU creditor proposal foresees EU8.7b in EFSF funds: official
- Creditor proposal foresees EU3.3b in SMP profits: EU official
- Creditor proposal foresees EU3.5b in IMF funds: EU official
As noted, if Greece receives €3.3 billion from SMP profits it will mean that the ECB has forfeited the money it made on the Greek bonds it purchased in the past, effectively allowing Athens to repay the central bank with its own money. Here's DB with some color:
There may be a more rapid disbursement option. EUR1.9bn of the EUR7.2bn stalled tranche is SMP profits. Releasing these funds might only involve a decision by finance ministers without necessarily consulting parliaments. Disbursing EFSF funds, on the other hand, requires the national approval process (e.g., the joint decision by the German Finance Minister and the Budget Committee, if not a full plenary vote). In other words, SMP profits could be disbursed at short notice. These would be sufficient to pay the EUR1.6bn owed to the IMF on Tuesday.
As for the EFSF funds, it's long been suggested that bank recap funds could be chanelled to Athens under the 'right' circumstances and apparently imminent default is as good an excuse as any. Citi has more on the EFSF funds:
The interim proposal would likely allow Greece to use part of the €10.9bn from the original Hellenic Financial Stability Fund (HFSF) designated for Greek bank recapitalization, and later transferred back to the EFSF/ESM. Various media outlets have reported on the possibility that around €9bn could be used for current expenditure, in line with our estimates of the financing needs of the Greek sovereign for 3Q. Although a unanimous agreement will be required at the ESM board level to redirect the resources away from its banking recapitalization objective, we believe that a deal is likely to be found. The release of such funds would allow an extension of the current programme for several months, while giving more time for creditors and the Greek authorities to complete the negotiations for a third aid programme. It could also convince the ECB to increase the T-bill ceiling and the SSM to raise the ceiling on the exposure of Greek banks’ to their sovereign. All this however remains conditional on the approval of the ‘interim’ package by the Greek Parliament as well as by various national parliaments (in Germany, the Netherlands and Finland among others).
German Chancellor Angela Merkel implored Tsipras to accept what she calls a “generous” offer and has been adamant that a deal must be struck by the time the market opens on Monday which effectively means that EU finance ministers will need to strike an agreement at tomorrow’s Eurogroup meeting which starts at 2 pm local time. “I spoke today about a very generous offer because we simply have moved a step toward Greece, also with respect to the February agreement,” Merkel said.
In the wake of this morning’s news, the rhetoric from Tsipras has only hardened with the Greek PM pledging to uphold the democratic values upon which the euro was founded and to not accept “blackmail” (which of course is rather ironic, considering Merkel said precisely the same thing with regard to the Greek on Thursday):
Document of proposals presented to the Greek side by the institutions is “worse than a memorandum,” ANA reports, citing Greek govt officials in Brussels.
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras says he will defend the European Union’s founding principles of “democracy, solidarity, equality, mutual respect” as he seeks an agreement with international creditors to unlock aid for the country.
“These principles were not based on blackmails and ultimatum, and especially in these crucial times no one has the right to put in danger these principles,” Tsipras tells reporters in Brussels after an EU summit
“The Greek government will continue decisively to give the fight in favor of these principles, to continue to give the fight on behalf of the European people and of course on behalf of the Greek people,” he says.
Source in #Greece negotiations: "Not going well... Greeks backtracking significantly. Measures not credible. Don't know if there'll be deal"
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) June 26, 2015
Big concerns among creditors that Greek measures both unambitious & growth unfriendly. Will def be document for eurogroup. May not be agreed
— Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky) June 26, 2015
For reference, here's a breakdown of what Greece's fiscal situation (i.e. budget deficit) looks like going forward:
* * *
Or, summarized:
»
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Excellent post TT.
Wilmot: "Greek economic policies are insane"
Some Dumb Bitch: "But everbody's doing it! We're all insane now!"
Wilmot: Yes I see...
You are participating in the insanity. It does not exonerate you that others are participating.
You cannot change their craziness. Pointing out their craziness without taking a look at your own, and CHANGING YOUR BEHAVIOR, is the epitome of hypocrisy...an arrogant hypocrisy at that.
So take that good look in the mirror and enjoy wealth created by others paid for with DEBT that you will repudiate yourself...because you are so damned exceptional and deserve your fraudulent gains.
Or you can STOP SPENDING bullshit worthless cash, except that spending which is needed for a spartan survival, ultimately eat the loss on the Notes which you have and have some dignity.
It will happen to you anyway, by either your own volition or by circumstantial forces.
And there will be no dignity when it is forced upon you.
Because the Credit Freeze II Sequel Show is going to open in a theater near you. And every night is Audience Participation Night in that flock. Hell...Greece is just the opening act.
Care to play a game of Old Maid, where you stick another with worthless currency while you walk away with their real wealth? Where is the dignity in that?
What on Earth does me using or not using fiat currency have to do with the merit of the Greek govermment's economic policy you silly bastard?
I'll give the benefit of the doubt and assume you're drunk (rather than nuts).
What on Earth does me using or not using fiat currency have to do with the merit of the Greek government's economic policy you silly bastard?
same money changers at the top dictating your livelihood. They sucked every ounce of blood from the Greeks until nothing was left. The $$$ we use provides life support for these parasites.
I know of several people in my family that did EXACTLY that and it works like a charm. Believe me.
One of them owed like 12.000 € and they offered him a "friendly deal" of a one-time-payment of 2.000 and be done with it. He refused. Hahahahaha. Nothing to confiscate. Repo my a$$
Yes...
Let every man live at the expense of every other.
No one'll have to work.
It'll be perfect!
...wait.
Moral hazard is a real motherfucker....
Using the language and "laws" of the fascists against them... brilliant...
let's get this free-for-all started already!!!
It's DejaVu all over again. Stop the planet! I want to get off...
me first, asshole. no cutting in line. I wanted off first.
Paul Craig Roberts Warns Greek Government May Be Assassinated In This Crisis If They Pivot East To Stop World War III
Dr. Paul Craig Roberts: “The Greek people and the Greek government have before them the unique opportunity to prevent World War III. All the Greek government needs to do, if the Greek people will get behind the government, is to default on the loans, resign from the EU and from NATO, and accept the deal that the Russians have offered them….
This would begin the unraveling of NATO. Very quickly Spain and Italy would follow. So southern Europe would desert NATO and so would Austria, Hungary and the Czech Republic. NATO is the mechanism that Washington uses to cause conflict with Russia. So as the EU and NATO unravel, the ability of Washington to produce this conflict disappears.
http://kingworldnews.com/paul-craig-roberts-warns-greek-government-may-b...
Paul Craig is such an optimist.
he is the kind of genius who announce worldwide water is wet.
but not smart enought to realize what he says is an overkill.
not a single 1st rank politician in greece will die, but, familiy members in car accident or fire in the campaign house... this is another story...
wood is very dry there in the period of the year, an accident can be all of a sudden...
sure whatever, same as it ever was. The real genius still belongs to the con man who can sell sand to people living in the desert.
there cant be any WWIII in Europe, unless you think it would be nuclear. If it would be a conventional war, I can assure you that most people here in Europe are beginning to be so fed up with the USA and NATO that if they push us to war with Russia, we will simply flee to the other side. Like more and more Ukrainian soldiers (and even generals) are now defecting to the Russian side. I am sure that most Germans would defect to the Russian side, most Italians, most Slovaks, most Czechs etc. We are already too tired and most of all: we see the threat of muslim terrorists as far a greater threat to us and the USA does not seem to care, only Russia. I am speaking about those, who are not yet sure what is happening (I know about the banksters of course), but many people who were confused a while ago are now turning more and more towards Russia and China, because they are more and more afraid of hunger and terrorists. Some guy even said: "Why are the media scaring us about Russian agression? Is that worse than radical muslim agression? I dont even care anymore, just let Russia come and occupy us, I am OK with that - better than muslims anyway." Colleagues of my husband, who still were very anti-Russian recently, are starting to learn Russian now. Surprised?
This "defecting to the other side" by the common people, when they come to realise they've been living their lives under the Bankster boot, is why Team Russia has not pushed too hard on Ukraine. If they wait a little longer, they could win everything with the blood shed already in Ukraine being the extent of the conflict. Who but the brain washed wants to die for the Zino-Nazis?
Conservative elements within the Greek army should sieze Athens and pack off Tsipras and Co. (duly eunich-ized) to a nunnery, recall the King, and set about reconstructing what was once a functioning western society. But if that's not possible (I assume those elements within the army have been thoroughly purged since the last coup), then I'll take a foreign-sponsored coup as a booby prize - an EU-puppet regime would make at least some of the needed reforms, if for no other reason than they want Greece prosperous enough to repay its debts. But if you care at all about the well-being of the Greek people, the worst possible outcome is to allow them to continue to vote themselves into socialist oblivion, under the leadership of grotesque demogogues like Tsipras.
https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2015/06/25/warmongering-vs-econ...
Throughout recorded history the maximum life span of an empire has been about 250 years or 10 generations, see "The Fate of Empires" and "Search for Survival" by Sir John Glubb (Glubb Pasha). [Note: He was not familiar with China or Southeast Asia and did not include them.]
Israel gave up all of Sinai to Egypt in exchange for a peace treaty. That's hardly the action of a regional "wanna-be" Hegemon.
Yet your cited URL site claims Israel seeks to subjugate once again the Sinai AND Egypt at least to the Nile River, Lebanon, Norther Saudi Arabia-where the oil isn't!-and Syria and Iraq west of the Euphrates River. But, it offers no proof. Nor, does it seek to explain how Israel's tiny population would even want to make such a foolish attempt.
If the Muslims had done absolutely nothing warlike at the UN Partition they would have been far ahead of where they stand today.
Perhaps you and your Muslim masters could come up with something a little more plausible next time?
We Europeans should be ashamed that we left the Greeks alone against the bank. 11 million people doing the job of 500 million.
+1
The Spaniards, Italians, French and others hopefully are at least paying attention.
Iceland has laid the groundwork.
Progressively apply the "Iceland" solution to larger and larger entities.
Once Greece pulls an "Iceland", next apply to the next country in the line.
Watch the Banksters soil their 3000$ suits.
The Risk should be applied to those who profited from the debt.
Viva Catalonia!
Best comment of the week. How true.
Shortsighted, western corporate outsourcing of middle class wealth producing jobs is THE central cause of ALL of this. And these same western corporate cretins (often with the skids greased by your OWN government) are STILL doing it.
When jobs leave, income does too.
That's followed by spending declines (once you're hocked up on easy credit), and all the warping "stimulus" games begin, culminating in collapse. Along the way we see bubbles blown, and incredible wealth gaps emerge, while we are constantly treated to recovery bullshit by the pile.
Then, instead of recognizing the actual problem, and realizing what has to really precede prosperity, we allow the very same bastards that blessed the mechanism of our demise to financially terrorize the victims.
Greece is by NO means perfect here either; their socialism has dramatically intensified their misery...and for that, THEY are responsible. Hopefully, these dark days will represent an urgent call to renounce their profligacy, and fundamentally change the way they think. If they can't or won't do this, I'll wash my hands of them too.
BUT...they are NOT alone in what everyone faces, and for the same original reason: outsourcing-decimated middle class incomes.
Jingoistic support of your individual governments, as they pound Greece, is really tantamount to handing them the hammer they'll someday use on YOU.
Think about who and what YOU support.
m
Someone just said water is wet. The concerns of any "middle class" weigh very little in the calculus getting played.
Would be a shame to finally sort out Greece and then the earth's population, except for the those who have taken shelter underground, is eradicated by a close encounter with a dwarf planet at the end of the year.
Please the odds of an "encounter with a dwarf planet at the end of the year" are about the same as a credit event that triggers all those CDS.
I knew it. We're all freakin' doomed.
it's all Greek to me (still).
Rejection meanwhile confirmed by MGMMD (Means of German mass media desinformation)
Democracy will always ultimately fail under fraud banking.
I vote to put more debt onto you. ...... and I don't even need your consent.
Why Banksters love to have us spreading democrazy around. The Ponzi needs new blood.
Now they have done it. They are stuck between a crock and a tard place.
In todays world that seems a little racist to me, Blackmailed, ever been Whitemailed.
Maybe it should ne PersonMailed or just Extortion
PersonOfColorMailed, if you please. White is a color too.
<<It's all funny money. Never really existed in the first place. Poof, and it's gone.>>
Yup. So if it absolutely never really existed, it does not have to repaid.
Unfortunately, a select few most certainly did, and still do, benefit from the printing/credit creation...
get long sharecropping, black markets and guillotines, beat the rush. One way or another there will most certainly be a "rebalancing" as that which cannot be sustained, won't be.
Lol, I guess Lady Lagarde is relieved and Juncker just wet his shoes...
This IS Sparta .
Pride comes before a fall.
I feel like I'm watching a boxing match....the "Hope-A-Dope"..
Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
Incubus, I started that on here ... then Ghordius wanted to know if I was a Black guy.,
We won't be Bankmailed.
there fixed it.
The perfect term. BANKMAILED.
Love this quote:
"...Greek measures both unambitious & growth unfriendly."
Good God, GROWTH UNFRIENDLY !!! KILL THEM.
In a system BASED on UNLIMITED growth, (yes in a finite world)
THAT is Heresy
"We won't be blackmailed! ..... a 709,434 th time!
Slow learners are better than never-learners... I guess?
Alexis: Don't you see that the misleading, never-ending troika offers-you-can't-accept are purposefully designed to fail, discredit you and your party, and foment public Greek unrest so western powers and banks can eventually install their own puppet government?
Envision Victorious Nuland handing out koulourakia, John McCain in Athens streets telling the protesters "I am with you, the Amerikan people are with you", followed by western-arranged mecenary sniper killings of several street people.
Imagine yourself fleeing to Russia as Yanukovych was forced to do, and maybe someday getting a headline of your own, that Interpol is after you too:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30777844
Time is not on your side...
Forewarned is forearmed.
As noted, if Greece receives €3.3 billion from SMP profits it will mean that the ECB has forfeited the money it made on the Greek bonds it purchased in the past, effectively allowing Athens to repay the central bank with its own money."
Well...bless their pointy little heads.
Aren't they the altruists today...
What does THAT do for Greece...beside dig them deeper in?
Nothing, with interest.
Greece: Get ready to really hurt for awhile. Consider it a necessary price to future financial freedom, BUT, tell the goddamned troika, Merkel, and especially that lifeless Schauble to go straight to hell.
UNLESS the EU and the rest of the troika jackals ACTUALLY develop AND deliver a comprehensive plan to STOP the bleeding of needed jobs and income to Asia (and elsewhere), and INSTEAD start demanding and facilitating the transfer of those jobs to hard hit areas like Greece (and the rest of the PIIGS), there is absolutely NO reason for any kind of deal.
Greece should assemble the parliment this weekend in, emergency session, to draft legislation exiting the country from that anethma known as the EU...and unless the above demand is a bona fide part of any further EU assistance plan, MEAN IT.
It won't be easy to reclaim youselves, and to rehab ways and philosophies that have damaged you from within, but you have to do something to restore a chance at a future against the clearly, never-ending shark assault from without.
You can't afford not to.
Be Spartan again.
Remember Sparta!
m
The only thing Greece is interested in, is free money. Unlimited. And no paying back. Those Ultra Left socialists over there think that free money is coming from the sky for them. It was, untill now.
I have to say bravo for Tsipras. Our politicians would have caved long long ago. Regardless of what I think about Socialist Malaka's like him or Greece, he is giving the EU a big FU.
We need more FUs.
As the Greek debt bailout talks grind on there's a groundswell of opinion insisting that Greece is in fact being blackmailed here. And in one sense that's entirely true: the economy is being sacrificed upon the altar of the euro and of the ever greater…
Latest:
http://tersee.com/#!q=greece&t=text
Funny all proposals are about how the Greeks get money funded by institutions that need it back.
Where is a healthy debt cut of let us say 40 % minimum to make it sustainable or is that already to much for bancrupt Europe?
40%?? Where's your imagination? Its all onerous.
Still waiting to see if Douche Bank gets creamed. Maybe one day in the not-too-distant future they'll look back and say: "We were really playing a great game right up until the point where we fucked up."
Does anyone have a link toa press release or something from D.Bank re the resignation of their 2 CEOs?
Douche Bank was used and abused like the piggy bank for the "dumb money" that it was.
Great to know both Merkel and Tspiras are above being blackmailed. While I did not know blackmail was so common in European politics it is still comforting to know neither of these pillars will submit.
....now... how was the blackmail going to work.....?
You got that right
Tap a jew bankers phone or ask the
nsa/irs/mossad/cia/fbi/kgb/bnd/mss/raw/mi5/mi6/dod/usn
/usaf/asis/dgse/fsb /isi/dhs/nyt/wfb/usb/citi/goldman/scia
or a honey pot whore?
Interesting lines but without context. The context scrolled up and away some tomd back.
It's over for the EU the second the Greeks realize they can say anything, do anything, spend on anything they want and the EU will accept it, the EU will agreee to anything to prevent Greece from leaving the EU.
The EU is a prison where the inmates run the place and control all the gates and doors and the guards have to pay the inmates to stay.
EU boots Greece---->Greece tariff rapes EU------>Greece pivots to China, Russia, India-----> EU eats shit---->EU raises EU taxes-----> Italy pivits to Greece Russia----
EU unwind is coming.
Deutche Bank will eat shit------>Ukraine War
Russia should bribe the German banks to publicly quit, 1 trillion ought to be worth it.
The EU doesn't know what shit is, smithers. They call is schiss.
Is the TEA PARTY standing up to the international bagmen? Hold your laughter.
Has the TEA PARTY defunded any wars or seriously tightened gov't spending? I'm trying to be serious.
The OATH KEEPERS promise not to take your guns during the next Katrin,a but have the OATH KEEPERS really changed law enforcement or the military?
I thought Greece said that they'll allow UN inspectors take a look at their nuke fuel rods and sign the deal not make nuclear weapons?
Respectfully,
Wrong enigma, I think...
m
Not the "B" word! What's the "NQP" turd think about that!
ZEROHEDGE - This is not a comment on the above story but about your website.
Tyler - please avoid putting those really obnoxious auto-starting video adverts at the bottom of the reports.
They are unstoppable and very very annoying...!!!
Brad
Ad blocker stops that
Word!
Like I give a flying fuck about ameritrades queer sales endeavors. lol
If I had any money I wouldn't be "wording" on zh I'd be out on the yacht banging whores snortin coke and thinking of the most retarded law of the day contest like the government tRAiTorS.
Can't help it...
Gotta give you +1 for that one.
Snortin coke...lol
m
Dude, you need to install AdBlock, it's very simple
If AdBlock doesn't work for you, you can also try to switch off FLASH by using "Spyware Blaster" - which does a few other cute things too and works with any browser. It's completely free.
The B to the G rejected by T.
WE MUST "STARVE THE BEAST"!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OslGwux9OA
ZEROHEDGE CAN YOU PLEASE MAKE YOUR SITE READABLE ON A PHONE WITHOUT IT MOVING ALL OVER THE PLACE
There's an android browser called free adblocker that works pretty well. Not perfect but not horrible.
IF Greece leaves euro its a decisive blow to the NWO/Banker oligarch.
It could be the domino that falls.
As another commentor pointed out recently, it will cost Germany and the EU much more to bail out Deutsche Bank than it would to just keep floating Greece.
Won't happen
Tsipras puts this up for referendum so the people "own" the outcome. If Tsipras surrenders, not only will has gov't fall it could be civil war.
The Greek voters must do what' the people they thought they elected refuse to do: be accountable one way or another
Greece will NOT be allowed to crash the EU and let Putin benefit from the Eurotard's own goal
Before that happens Peace Prize will release his economic Hitmen to pull a 60's style army coup
Guard the amories.
Some detail on the remaining differences:
Pensions – In a major concession to creditors, Greece has agreed to raise retirement age to 67 by 2022. Bear in mind that the initial target date set by the Greek government was 2036. However, Athens still wants to increase employer contributions for main pensions and insists on replacing – not scrapping, as demanded by the institutions – a solidarity grant for pensioners.
VAT – The Greek government is now pledging to raise an additional 0.93% of GDP per year from VAT reform, up from 0.74% in its previous proposal. This is closer to 1% demanded by the institutions. Athens also appears to have agreed to increase VAT for restaurants to 23%, but now wants to keep the 30% VAT discount for islands. The latter is a red line for ANEL – the right-wing coalition partner of Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras – but is something the institutions want to scrap. Disagreement also remains over the VAT rate for hotels. The Greek government wants 13%, the institutions 23%. However, it looks like the institutions have agreed to keep a super-reduced VAT rate of 6% for pharmaceuticals, books and theatres.
Taxation – The Greek government has agreed to limit the increase in corporate tax to 28%, as suggested by the institutions. However, Athens still wants to apply a one-off 12% levy on corporate profits exceeding €0.5 million this year – something the institutions are not keen on.
Military spending – The Greek government is pledging to cut military spending by €200 million. The institutions are demanding €400 million. This is another issue that could create a rift within Greece’s ruling coalition
More detail in http://openeurope.org.uk/blog/all-you-need-to-know-heading-into-a-crucia...
Is Greece in some sort of financial pickle? The hell you say!
Schiss! Schuld!
STARVE THE BEAST
Be strong and be of good courage; be not afraid,
neither be thou dismayed:
Joshua 1:9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OslGwux9OA
democracy
In the west, democracy is now a lie. Although elections are held, and votes cast, the entire exercise is predetermined before hand by members of the Deep State, and their bribed government officials. They decide who may be on the ballots, they count the votes. They control the entire media message to the people. They use campaign contributions to reward the most compliant candidates once in office.
If you call that democracy, then it is a warped form of it. When was the last time genuine ordinary Americans sought federal offices?
we'd be much better off with president, congress, and court members all picked randomly from the adult population, like jury duty
I concur. However, based on my interactions with recent high school graduates, perhaps a minimum competency test would be in order.
Better still, how about a direct democracy where all laws, treaties, tax increases, policies, etc., are subject to a referendum/vote by the people.
That's how it was done in most of New England when I was young. Town Hall Meeting in the high school gym for a few nights a year to decide everything.
I agree Thought of that exact same thing the other day. We could hold elections to remove them before their term came up their constituents were not satisfied with their representation. Could pay them 125 percent of what they were currently making. Then out. Solves term limits and special interest money flow.
The best in US demcoracy are the two following surprise effects:
the system has now entered an endless loop. nobody want to press control-c or control-z to end it. nobody wants to do a kill -9 <process id> ... cpu and memory are both overwhelmed although IO is down .... it needs a reboot but nobody has the guts to call the decision ... well, not yet but it will come
after the reboot its going to also need much better virus protection software
needs a reformat and NEW OS, more like it.
Too bad nobody wants Austrian Libertarian Linux
That's because all the mainstream operating systems these days, including Linux, are shit.
Lots of folks might just switch back to DOS and get back to enjoying life again. Others may write something completely new and fresh.
http://www.templeos.org/
All the Linux versions were bought by big, mainstream tech companies, so now by default, they all for example, "phone home" when they boot up.
Suzie went to Norton
Red Hat became a service you buy.
Corruption v Democracy
I guess we will see who wins on 1st July.
Just take Turkey as an example - doh!
If Greece €xits it will be HUGE!!!!
Not economically but geopolitically.
First it will prove that EU is a false structure.
Secondly, Greece -who is an historical alliance of Brits and later Americans- will be in a place where americans and other policy makers have never predicted or planned to be.
Third it will prove that Germany cannot lead in a region where Americans want the Germans to lead.
Ok it is more complicated, and will be an unpredictable situation, but is going to be huge. And here we are, so close to actually happen.
I believe that after 5-10 years it will not be the Greeks who will regreting the GR€XIT but someone else.
Greece will be just as fucked up and corrupt as it is now.
There may be a few more empty tits.
They have pitchforks!
"If Greece €xits it will be HUGE!!!!"
That's why Germany and the Eurocrats won't let it happen.
Greece is in charge of this mess.
Soooo...Greece sells itself into chattel slavery to the oppressive slave master who, with drool running, wood swelling and lips licked, readily agrees to the sale. The slave master demands the slave do as its told just like all the other slaves on the EU Plantation. But the slave has a change of heart after realizing slavery is just that - chains, confiscation, lack of freedom, no rights, etc..and declares itself not a slave. The master says "you're still a slave!" and cracks the whip. Slave says to stop cracking the whip and calls the whip blackmail. The master says the slave is the one who is blackmailing (but how the slave can blackmail the master is not clear, unless Greece has pictures of Merkel, Draghi and Hollande in a 3some or with animals - then again..).
Master gets angry at slave and turns to the US Supreme Court for guidance who says don't worry about the pictures, soon anyone will be able to marry anyone or group or animal or even objects, which Ginsburg specified in the majority opinion is what REALLY gets her wet (although she did clarify in a separate statement that her river actually hasn't flowed since she was alone 100 years ago in a dark corner of her law school library making sexytime with her copy of Das Kapital).
Master then turns to its TRUE Master, and Goldman says "just pull it". Master pulls down pants in anticipation, but is corrected by Goldman saying that "pull it" is code (last used 9/11) for letting the slave rot and collapse. Merkel gets wet hearing such music, but Draghi and Hollande still don't get it, drop their tighty whities and start "pulling it" anyway. Meanwhile, Greece rots and dies while Angela keeps asking Goldman to tell her moar and moar and...oh, God, don't stop...oh God.
Postscript: Based on further counsel from Goldman, Draghi and Hollande declare "All national flags must be removed from courthouses and monuments and replaced with the EU flag, which in the spirit of "pulling it" proudly depicts 12 stars in a sacred, unified circle jerk."
IMF head Lagarde is no stranger to lying. When she was French Finance Minister during the financial system meltdown, she told the NY Fed that French law would make it a crime for a French bank to accept anything less than a 100% bailout on its swaps. This was a bald-faced lie, of course. But that's one of the main reasons the Fed did not force banks to take a haircut.
Now she's lying again when she says Greece can handle austerity and repay its debts.
"The proposal does not cover us, because the financial part of barely meets the needs for payment of installments to the lenders, not help anywhere else the economy,"
Proving, once more, that the Troika's only concern is bailing out Euro banks, not Greeks.
This is really such nonsense.
The only ones getting fracked here are the Greeks.
Money is printed out of nothing every day.
Why do the Greeks have to borrow money just to give it back to the banks?
Cant the banks just fudge the numbers some more and lie just as they have been?
Why is it OK to lie about everything else but not lie about what Greece borrowed
and or payed back at interest?
Enquiring minds want to know!
Fudging is only OK if it benefits the fudgers. Ask Obola. He's an expert.
Fudging is only OK if it benefits the fudgers. Ask Obola. He's an expert.
In a sense, didn't similar crap play out between the Dems and the Republicans over the US budget and then we had this drama of a fiscal lockdown. A few days of closure of parks and then suddenly some magic fiscal compromise between the two sides - all was well again and all that the sheeples cared about was that their National Parks were open again, the country be damned. Hurrah. And that was the end of that.
So June 30th will come and go, both sides will stick to their guns. We'll talk about default everywhere, then suddenly, a resolution just to show that nobody gave in BEFORE the deadline but was OK to give in AFTER the deadline...and all the bankers' summer vacation plans are back on track.
Episode 603 of the Greek soap opera "As the Can is Kicked". In this episode Tsipras is offended and threatens snap elections. Meanwhile, Christine buys herself a dress and some new jewelry.
Sorry, but you have to wait till episode 12,671 to see whether the Fat Lady will sing. And even then, you won't be able to find out what song she is going to sing for another 371 episodes.
Future pyschologists and social scientists will be studying this event for decades to gain insite on the mechanisms of mass delusion.
its all so confusing. Whats an algo to do?
aid my ass.
You want aid? Educate the dumb masses. Give them jobs that make meaningful things; give them access to information.
INFORMATION IS LIBERATION.
Or you can act, as a country, not unlike that of a beggar, with hand outstretched for "aid."
Fuck that shit. Stand up and become what you should be. Tear the leeches away.
LOL, the Eurocrats are stuck bailing out Greece indefinitely.
Merkel, bend over and do what the Greeks say.
I think Tsipras has hit on the smart thing to do. If the Greek people are willing to prostitute themselves to Brussels, they should be given the choice to do so rather than it being imposed on them. Let's hope that they are sensible and reject it.
They will vote for "more crack" but "a good butt fucking" seems to be polling a close second while "endure some pain but live free" is in the basement and has no shot at winning.
Time for us Greeks to make things right: LETS START WITH A 7-DAY DOWN RUN OF ALL THE MARKETS UNTIL NEXT SUNDAY. AND THEN A HUGE "NO" TO THE REFERENDUM...
IMF and EU Bankers will respond propably by escalating things by cutting Greek banks of any money lending. We can live for 1 week without banks...Can they live with their markets falling for a week? And then for more?
This is GREECE!!!
Athenian lawmaker Solon, some interesting paralles. https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Solon
The little mouse that roared.
Damn they're going to pull an Ireland. Greece is saved. No default. BTFD.
Yeah have an election.
That will fix everything.
So Greece will get her chance to say the Great No of her son Cavafy, the most celebrated Greek fag of modern times. How appropriate on the day fag marriage was forced down the throats of Americans in all 50 states.
The king of the fags have spoken. The men in Greece's army know what they have to do to save Greece for Christian Greeks.
They will be overwhelmingly in favor of the Euro. Because faggotry was invented there too.
And now we will all have final proof of what a bunch of natural born slaves and idiots the Greeks are. Expect more than 70% in favor of the Euro, the EU subsequently steam rolling them into a something out of 1980's Latin America. Not that they don't deserve it.
If they held these negotiations in Detroit instead of some palace in Brussels these negotiations would have been settled last year.
Think about it!
Or in Paducah, Kentucky? They would have found a solution in 2 hour!
Yes, remember the Dayton Accords? All it took to settle the Bosnia problem was to imprison the principle negotiators in America's most BORING rust-belt city and force them to eat the local (All-American, no Mexican, and damned little Chinese) food and drink the radioactive-contaminated water (Dayton in 1995 HAD no wine by European standards) until they reached an agreement. The entire conference took only 20 days to finish a war that had been simmering for a century.
I remember!
Imagine Lagarde's horror at the thought!
We should force negotiations to be held in Riyad.
The Greek finance minister is a master of game play. He has the Troika backed up against its own existence. The EU faces a referendums in the UK and the other little piglets are keenly absorbing all the details. Greece is the tip of the iceberg. The EU is a bad lender and it should pay the price like any miscreant lender. Write down the debt and make EU taxpayers pay the bill, and that means even more dissent.
The Greek finance minister is a fool. He and his idiot prime minister have been gambling with the livihood of the Greek people.
Dumb and Dumber have destroyed Greece.
Greece are responsible for creating this mess...years of fiscal negligence, credit fuelled growth, housing bubbles and rampant political corruption had to eventually take its toll.
This is really getting boring now though, just default or revolt aleady !
And America are responsible for creating the mess that the world is in.
you think the Greeks will be punished for defaulting on their debt but the Americans will not be punished for their vile foreign policy?
May I say ho ho
Okay, so it's pony-up time in the Hellenic Peninsula.
Syriza has made, and is making, its campaign pitch to the people. All to be decided on Sunday next.
Does anybody doubt that the EU will be campaigning as well?
Their most-effective platform is likely to be one where they say that a "Yes" vote means that the Greek banks will be recapitalized and able to reopen for business on the Monday afterwards.
Until then, ELA is suspended and the Greek banks are, alas, out of currency.
The ATM runs this weekend ought to be huge and completely drain the system even without fully satisfying demand.
Then comes Monday with no more money forthcoming from ELA until the matter is resolved.
Happy voting to all.
Yes, but they Greeks have a joker up their sleeve and a decent number of troops.
http://www.bankofgreece.gr/Pages/en/Bank/Organization/buildings/IETA.aspx
Seems they have a printing press in a fairly accessible location. I see no need for the ATM's to run dry.
Greece can have its cake and eat it too, and if things get really nasty Greece can play the "D" card.
Deportations-along with creditor debts, they could even sell deporation liability rights to israelis and have a dog fight.
I wonder what will be the points that the Greeks will vote for
Hopefully Tyler will provide this for our knowledge so Z Her's can have its own referundum and see if it matches the Greeks.
To ACCEPT the Ultimatum or NOT.
That's the question.
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but Greece just effectively delivered a default notice to the IMF - unless they've got $1.6 large lying around somewhere.
This is my understanding as well.
You can say that again
This is my understanding as well.
This is my understanding as well.
Greece has no choice. It must let the people decide on the next step as the people will be carrying the burden, one way or the other.
The US should do a referendum on a few things as well, including removing that ghastly TPP and CIA among other things.
Maybe make it possible for an ordinary American to run for office without having to steal a billion.
Here you go, as one commenter alluded to, Greece agrees not to build a nuclear weapon and the US pays all Greek debts, now and forever. Greece gets as much additional money from Germany as they like. The US just brings a few more printing presses on line and indebts a few more generations of US kids. Brilliant.
boom.... you hear that ... thats the sound of people getting poorer as the euro project comes closer to meltdown.. unless of course your in the BULLION.... Oh and yes this effects the dollar in equal bad
get some bullion into your paws now... www.teamramgold.com
The US Fed is once again trying to bail out the old world similar to Pound/$ swaps after WWI so Britain could claim pound parity with gold prior to WWI.
The world's rising power has a huge real estate stock market debt bubble that is hitting headwinds, as well as the US.
The US Fed is doing its utmost to maintain fiction value of paper assets to prices prior to the 2007 bubble.
And a
Creditanstaltis close at hand.
History may not repeat, but it definitely rhymes.
Its crazy, the "vote" was to end AUSTERITY.
Stay in the Euro was a "survey" of Greeks - the scam US Fed and Financial markets rely on, instead of hard facts and data, to drive asset prices.