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China Increases Gold Holdings By 57% "In One Month" In First Official Update Since 2009
Back in April we wrote that "The Mystery Of China's Gold Holdings Is Coming To An End" as a result of China willingness to add the Yuan to the IMF's SDR currency basket which would require the disclosure of China's gold holding ahead of an IMF meeting on SDR composition which may be held in October.
By way of background, the reason why everyone has been so focused on Chinese official gold holdings is that there has been no official update to the gold inventory of the world's biggest nation, which have been fixed at 33.89 million oz since April 2009, a little over 1000 tons. In other words, the PBOC's gold inventory has been "unchanged" for over 6 years which is in stark contrast to the ravenous buying of physical gold China has been engaging in for the past 5 years.
As we further noted in April, "with China disclosing so little about its hoard, finding out how much the central bank has in its vaults is of increasing interest to traders. Confirmation of bigger holdings would signal the importance of the metal as a reserve asset and boost market sentiment, TD Securities’ Melek said. At a time when prices are languishing, the buying could give support, said Suki Cooper, director of commodities at Barclays Plc in New York."
In a rare comment on gold, Yi Gang, the central bank’s deputy governor, said in March 2013 that the country could only invest as much as 2 percent of its foreign-exchange holdings in gold because the market was too small. The press office of the People’s Bank of China in Beijing didn’t respond to a fax seeking comment sent on April 14.
Well, the long awaited moment has finally arrived and this morning, after a 6 year delay when, China finally admitted that it had been misrepresenting its gold holdings for a very long time, when it announced that its gold holdings had increased from 38.89 million to 53.31 million troy ounces, a 57% increase "in one month."
The amounts to a new grand total of 1658 metric tons, an increase of 604 tons from the 1054 reported last in 2009 and which according to the PBOC was also the May 2015 total.
What is surprising about this release are three things:
First, while we welcome some long overdue "transparency", the number is well below official expectations. This is what Bloomberg said previously: "The People’s Bank of China may have tripled holdings of bullion since it last updated them in April 2009, to 3,510 metric tons, says Bloomberg Intelligence, based on trade data, domestic output and China Gold Association figures. A stockpile that big would be second only to the 8,133.5 tons in the U.S."
Second, China has finally admitted that its official gold numbers were fabricated (alongside all other official data released from the communist country) as it is impossible the PBOC could have bought 600 tons of gold in the open market in June when the price of the yellow metal actually dropped by 2%.
Third, and perhaps most important, is the reasoning behind the increase. While in April it was expected that China will be focused on SDR acceptance of the Yuan, that was subsequently refuted when it became clear that the IMF has no intention of making such a decision any time soon. So why make the disclosure?
- PBOC SAYS GOLD RESERVE INCREASE AIMS TO ENSURE SECURITY
And from the PBOC:
Gold as a special asset, with multiple attributes financial and commodities, together with other assets to help regulate and optimize the overall risk-return characteristics of international reserves portfolio. From the perspective of long-term and strategic perspective, if necessary, dynamically adjusted international reserves portfolio allocation, safety, liquidity and increasing the value of international reserve assets.
In other words, China had to wait until its stock market was crashing to present the "systemic stability" bazooka: gold.
Because in revealing a surge in its gold holdings, the PBOC is hoping to finally provide that final missing link that will boost investor sentiment, and get people buying stocks all over again.
And now that the seal has been finally broken after so many years, and since today's update indicates that Chinese gold numbers are clearly goal-seeked with a specific policy purpose - to boost confidence - we await for the PBOC to start leaking incremental gold holding data every month (and especially in months when the market crashes) which will bring us ever closer to what China's true gold holdings are.
* * *
The SAFE's full accompanying Q&A statement with reporters on its latest reserves is below (google translated):
People's Bank of China, the State Administration of Foreign Exchange, the official answered reporters' questions on China's total foreign debts, foreign exchange reserves, gold reserves, etc.
To further enhance the quality and transparency of foreign data, fully reflects the outcome of the internationalization of RMB recently, People's Bank of China, the State Administration of Foreign Exchange SDDS according to IMF data (SDDS) announced the country's foreign exchange reserves, gold reserves, and other data, corresponding adjustment of the caliber of external debt data, published a full-bore renminbi debt, including the debt included. People's Bank of China, the State Administration of Foreign Exchange person in charge of related issues answered reporters' questions.
First, what SDDS is?
A: SDDS namely IMF (IMF) Special Data Dissemination Standard of, is an international standard on countries' economic and financial statistics published by IMF enacted in 1996, the English name Special Data Dissemination Standard, referred to as the SDDS.
In order to improve the transparency of the Member States of macroeconomic statistics, IMF has developed GDDS (GDDS) and Special Data Dissemination Standard (SDDS) two sets of data dissemination standards. Both the overall framework basically the same, but in actuality, SDDS for data coverage, publication frequency, timeliness released, data quality, and other aspects of the public can get more demanding. SDDS the countries need to adopt in accordance with the requirements of the standard, published data of the real economy, fiscal, monetary, foreign and socio-demographic and other five sectors.
Currently, there are 73 economies adopted SDDS, including all developed economies, as well as Russia, India, Brazil, South Africa and other major emerging market countries. GDDS country had been announced by macroeconomic data.
Second, why should the adoption of SDDS?
A: With the deepening of economic globalization, improve data quality, make up the data gaps and enhance data comparability and enhance data transparency become a consensus. China's proactive response and internationally accepted data standards initiative, in November 2014, the Chairman Xi Jinping at the G20 summit in Brisbane officially announced that China will adopt the IMF Special Data Dissemination Standard (SDDS). After a series of technical preparations, the current standard conditions according to SDDS data published ripe.
Adopted SDDS, in line with our needs further reform and expand opening-up, help to improve the transparency of macroeconomic statistics, reliability and international comparability, promote the improvement of statistical methods; to further find out the macroeconomic real situation, as the country's macroeconomic provide the basis for decision-making to prevent and defuse financial risks; conducive to China's active participation in global economic cooperation, enhance the international community and public confidence in the domestic economy.
Three , according to the SDDS reserves data released specifically what?
A: The foreign exchange reserves, according to data released SDDS carried out, including the "official reserve assets" and "International Reserves and Foreign Currency Liquidity Data Template" in two parts. "Official Reserve Assets" includes the foreign exchange reserves, IMF reserve positions and special drawing rights (SDR), gold, other reserve assets of five projects, including "reserves" This project corresponds to the size of our country's foreign exchange reserves in the past announced ; "International Reserves and Foreign Currency Liquidity Data Template" includes four tables of official reserve assets and other foreign currency assets, the predetermined short-term net outflow of foreign currency assets and foreign currency assets or net outflow of short-term, memos.
On the publishing frequency, two pieces of data are released monthly, including "official reserve assets" not later than the seventh day of general release of the data at the beginning of each month on month, "International Reserves and Foreign Currency Liquidity Data Template" general release in the end of each month data. Since this is the first release, we have also released two pieces of data, to facilitate your control, according to the corresponding time in the future will be published separately requirements.
On statistical methods, in full accordance with IMF to carry out uniform standards relevant statistics.
Fourth, the comparative size of foreign exchange reserves in the past released the recently released data which points?
A: There are three main aspects:
- (1) This announcement is fully consistent with the country's reserves of foreign exchange reserves in the past announced the size of caliber. The size of our country's foreign exchange reserves in the past has been published in accordance with the relevant methods and standards of statistics in SDDS. As of the end of June 2015, China's foreign exchange reserves of $ 3.69 trillion.
- (2) new released other foreign currency assets. As of the end of June 2015, the Bank of other foreign currency assets of $ 232.9 billion.
- (3) adjusted by the size of its gold reserves. As of the end of June 2015, the scale of China's gold reserves to 53.32 million ounces (equivalent to 1,658 tons).
Five , gold reserves according to data released this time, compared with the scale of China's gold reserves since the end of April 2009 increased by 604 tons. Why should our holdings of gold reserves?
A: The gold reserve has been an important element of international reserve diversification countries constituted the majority of the central bank's international reserves have gold, country as well. Gold as a special asset, with multiple attributes financial and commodities, together with other assets to help regulate and optimize the overall risk-return characteristics of international reserves portfolio. From the perspective of long-term and strategic perspective, if necessary, dynamically adjusted international reserves portfolio allocation, safety, liquidity and increasing the value of international reserve assets.
Six , in recent years, international gold prices volatile, the current round of holdings of gold reserves is at what time what channel from holdings? Whether the future will continue to overweight?
A: With the prices of other commodities and financial assets, the international gold prices also ebb. Over the past few years, gold prices continued to rise to a record high, the gradual decline. Our asset-based valuation and price changes for gold analysis, under the premise of impact and influence in the right markets, at home and abroad through a variety of channels, this part of the gradual accumulation of gold reserves. Overweight channels including domestic miscellaneous gold purification, production Shouzhu, domestic and foreign market transactions and other means.
Gold has a special risk-return characteristics, at a particular time is a good investment products. But the capacity of the gold market is small compared with the scale of China's foreign exchange reserves, if a large number of short-term foreign exchange reserves to buy gold, easily affect the market. At present, China has become the world's largest gold producer, is also a big consumer of gold, "hidden gold to the people," the situation has been happening. The need to continue and consider the future of private investment demand and international reserve asset allocation, flexible operation.
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Gold star ( paper sorry).
Just numbers.... Means nothing.... ????
You are on a FINANCIAL Website.
If numbers mean nothing to you then you are in the wrong place.
lol it was a sarcastic comment.
I am referring to the complete and utter manipulation of every economic number out there, whether it be reported by the capitalist Chinese or communist Americans...
You could report that there is no gold left in any mine in the world and the price would still drop. Total utter load of crap.
topshelfstuff...
The fucking innumerate American does not understand percentages...
The percentage increase can be demonstrated by this formula
Percentage Increase = [(Final amt - Initial amt)/ Initial amt] X 100
Thus
[(53.31 - 38.89)/38.89 ] X 100 = 37%
The problem, and i have had this argument before on ZH, is that they do not understand the math of percentages. Actually it is very sad..
While 38.89 Million IS 73% of 53.31 Million it is not how much the initial amount increased.
So my guess is that this is a TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR rather than an error out of innumerate ignorance.
However '1658 metric tons, an increase of 604 tons from the 1054' , is a 57% increase.
The typographical error is the initial value of 38.89 million ounces. It should be 33.89 million ounces... a number that is found in the above.
There was a typo that resulted in 37%, the way it shows...BUT...I pasted the clip below, and where he wrote 38.89 million, the correct number is 33.89 million, so glad to say that 57% is correct
"""Well, the long awaited moment has finally arrived and this morning, after a 6 year delay when, China finally admitted that it had been misrepresenting its gold holdings for a very long time, when it announced that its gold holdings had increased from 38.89 million to 53.31 million troy ounces, a 57% increase "in one month.""""
Decisions, decisions, to have a gold back Yuan or a Yellen back buck?
1600 tonnes...
If that's the truth I am a Chinaman.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
Why are they stacking????? And should we be personally stacking too... you better believe it - if you're not already stacking - get to work on that right away !!!!
Our logic is simple. Save in gold bullion on a weekly/monthly basis. Karatbars produce LBMA good delivery gold bullion in 1g 2.5g and 5g weights at highly competitive prices! We are NOT speculating; we save physical gold for the long term as a protection of wealth.
www.teamramgold.com protect your future contact us today
I sure hope you are paying Tyler(s) for the advertising for your site.
I don't personally mind seeing it, but I won't click on it.
Karatbars! Worst premium over spot per ounce! Buy yours today!
Sorry Ramgold, no one is going to fall for that here. (And nobody is going to click your distributor revenue link.) There are too many GOOD REPUTABLE gold sellers out there to mess with your shit.
@goldeyedcat..
The karatbar product is first class...its LBMA, DNA and Holographic secured.. exact same as a kinebar.. (and still cheaper than a kinebar) so your argument that its shit is just slander.. the worst that can be said is that it's a bit expensive compared to OZ weight bars ... but look at the product and its market... ordinary joe's that cant afford OZ bars but can afford gram bars...And unless your a complete donkey you will know that as with everything the smaller the denomination the more expensive it becomes to produce.
That aside, the reason Im a champion for it, is that I have helped so many ordinary people acquire gold. people that knew fuck all about gold and the benefits it provides. These people weren't even saving in fiat.., so you will find that there is nothing wrong with what I do.
perhaps instead of bad mouthing something, maybe use that energy, help a few people get some AU that would otherwise have none.
Meh. You make money getting people to click on a distributor revenue link.
(Are you getting that sweet sweet 15% commission on the Karatbar gold affiliate package? It's cool if you are. We all gotta make a living. But ya gotta understand not everyone is going to be a fan. I personally like Maple Leafs, Buffalos and Eagles. Let's talk more about eagles!)
Karatbar = $61.89 for 1 gram (31.1034768 grams per troy ounce)
APMEX 1/10 ounce gold eagle = $130.55 (.1 troy ounce = 3.11 grams)
The Karatbar price for 3 grams would be $192.47 (vs $130 for the 1/10 eagle)
The Karatbar price for 7.775 grams would be $481.19 (vs $314.91 for the 1/4 eagle)
The Karatbar price for 15.55 grams would be $962.38 (vs $615.63 for the 1/2 eagle)
The Karatbar price for 31.1 grams would be $1924.77 (vs $1195.19 for the 1oz eagle) Yikes!
I know. I know. You offer a 5 gram Karatbar for $258.50. It's still the highest premium around. Lets see. Your best deal with the 5 gram Karatbar would be 15 grams for $775.5 versus the 15.5 gram 1/2 eagle for $615.63. And the 1/2 eagle is .5 grams more gold.
The fact is Karatbars are a horrible way to buy gold. And if a buyer can't afford a fractional eagle, they should be buying SILVER. Silver is awesome!
But sure, I'm slandering you. :p
*Edited to add* If I ever DID want to pay crazy fat premiums for gold, I'd buy thick 24k gold chains so I could stroll through airports looking like the girl version of Mister T. That would rock.
I think that the Chinese government is lying on the quantity of gold they hold . First of all , it must be said that China is one of the greatest producers of gold , but strangely enough it is not for sale , the government takes it all . So since 2009 when the China hold was about 1000 tons , the Chinese government has been accumulating about 400 ton of gold extracted from Chinese mines every year . http://www.mining.com/world-gold-production-2012-preliminary-results-71758/ So in the last 6 years ,in theory , the hold of gold of the Chinese government has increased by about 2400 tons of locally produced gold . Going on that estimate then and without counting purchases on the market , China would have about 3400 tons . So I think that for some reason , the Chinese government is understating the amount of gold in their possession .
If I read correctly
There is only 5oz of gold for every person on the planet
don't forget how much the CB's Hold (Claim) Guess 2oz for every person on the planet
Now how many peeps in China?????
Count your Oz of gold and for every 2oz above 2 you have it's thier share
Actually, it is only one ounce of gold (give or take) for every person on the planet.
Haha, each 400T annual left as Chinese Panda coins!!
OR
China discovers vast tunnel from China CB to India CB.
India says it is for research purposes only and is co-incident the tunnels go from bank to bank.
China this morning claims to have boosted gold reserves to 1658 metric tones from 1054 in 2009. If this is true it means they haven’t even bought up China’s gold production of 400 mt a year. If not, where did that excess production and all the gold imports go, because it never left China.
It must mean banks and individuals must hold far greater quantities of gold than supposed. Is the cabal storing their gold in Hong Kong and Shanghai? What is the basis for all the SGE China kilo bar trading? This reserve story doesn’t add up in the slightest. If true, gold has just had another currency, the Yuan, removed as competition.
When it comes to the kryptonite for central bankers everything you read in the media about gold is probably a lie. ZH and a few others are the rare exceptions.
Meanwhile the totally manipulated gold price is DOA.
Gold was the "kryptonite" until banksters decided that the currencies don't need gold backing anymore.
Cryptonite is the real deal.
It's time to remove your head from your ass, sir.
Just hold on to your dollars and other paper certificates real tight. You have a great future ahead of you.
“Cryptonite” - Like that! LOL.
Only problem with the <X>-coins and keeping their block chains consistent is the level of technological infrastructure required for them to operate. One Carrington level solar event ( http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2008/06may_carringt... ) would disrupt commerce for an extended period.
A carrington level event would affect every aspect of our life as everything runs on computers and electricity.
Bitcoin is a global decentralized system, it will continue as if nothing happened as soon as the infrastructure is restarted. (not so much the banking system).
Also, if electricity goes out for prolonged periods, money will be ammo, weapons and drugs.
BTW, Do you seriously think that the world will degrade to the dark ages and won't be electricity ever used again?
When I wrote commerce would be disrupted for an extended period - I'm thinking decades at a minimum, perhaps a century to fully recover.
"infrastructure is restarted"... may require a real world solution of which came first, the chicken or the egg? Repairing the infrastructure ( electrical generation, distribution, computing systems, communications, storage devices, etc... ) will required undamaged components.
Components that are made and transported by machines today.
The first generation recovery may be hand made discrete components hacked together to get some manufacturing lines operational in order to make higher quality and tighter tolerance components to get other lines operational which are used to start or improve other lines, a feedback loop eventually bringing us to the point where integrated circuits may once again be economically produced.
Fiat currencies are dependent on faith to operate, <X>-coins are dependent on an operating electrical, computing and communication infrastructure. Both are worthless to me as a means of storing wealth, however they are fine for short term use as long as one knows the underlying risks.
I disagree on money will be ammo, weapons and drugs. Barter items will be on the lower end of Maslow's needs - fresh water, food, shelter, etc... only the starving will part with defensive and medical supplies.
So, how come the CBs keep stacking?
How come Libya's Au vanished? Ukraine's? Malis? Where is Iraqs?
Diversify your bits niggas. ;)
precisely... thats why I have personally been stacking since the price came back after 2011/12. I cant claim to know whats going on no more than anybody else, but something is going on and gold seems to be the antidote...
www.teamramgold.com
Cmon guys, you're falling for a lowly spammer.
I am heavily invested in gold and solar
Solar Economics, less than 3 cents per kWH. Typical old school utilities charge 12 to 14. And your price stays locked in at that 3 cents for 30 years.
Any more no brainer stuff we need to go over?
Proof is here
http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/p/renewable-and-energy-efficiency.html
You conveniently forgot to mention solar economics is not equal in all locations.
Good luck trying to get that economy up in Buttfuck, ND where the sun may only appear for 5 days a month during the winter.
Yeah, I'm sure it's economical if you live in the Sonoran desert, but for most people, solar doesnt pay.
ROI on a solar system with install costs of $4/W and a competing electric rate of 20 cents/kWH will take 15 years. If you finance the install, your install costs will onky be higher.
My electric rate is 12 cents per kWH including generation and distribution, which only drives up the ROI.
After 20 years, the solar panels and batteries are worthless.
Hogwash.
First you relying on other peoples money to reduce the solar boondoggles cost and second most states are not as generous with the peoples money as Hawaii. Florida, for instance, the array must be installed by a 'professional' so now we have added installation costs. Besides the theft of OPM, the actual cost per KWH would be more than 5 times higher on a Grid Tie system and Ten times on a Off Grid system. Conservatively!
Next you actually use the debasement of the currency as a selling point.
Next most utilities don't pay the KWH they charge.
Next the efficiency of the inverter(s) are not 100% Usually about 92-94% but most lie and claim almost 97%
Then I am to assume those inverters will last the life of the panels? No way...
Next you have a useless system if you want back up power for outages. For that you will need good batteries and the associated equipment.
Next it appears you expect all sun and no clouds. I have twelve Kyocera 235 watt panels that at best give me 11-12 KW per usual partly cloudy day.
And finally you should pay Zero Hedge for the ad.
Would you admit openly how much gold you have? Thought not.
For the same reason the Chinese are scared to do the same. Why encourage some two-bit grunt of a country to come and invade yours? Remember what happened to Ukraine's gold??
Bubble, bubble, quite controuble
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and corporate shells
And tons of gold stacked in a hole
"A stockpile that big would be second only to the 8,133.5 tons in the U.S."
Riiiighttt ... the US actually has 8133.5 tons. That's why they can't return Germany's gold.
China has a smaller Physical stack, and the US has a larger Magical Invisible stack.
Jim Willie won't be happy. He thinks China has upwards of 20,000 tonnes. LOL
tb
He may not be far off the mark, though.
You believe what you want to believe depending on your bias of what you wish as shown countless times on ZH.
genuine question.. would you rather have a stack of phyzz or not?
www.teamramgold.com
@RAMGOLD
why would I want Gold at the moment when I can get 76 oz silver for the same money.
Educate yourself
No one should be buying Gold at the current GSR...................just silver
Shows how fucked up things are when ......................buy gold buy gold...................when peeps donot uderstand the GSR
Both are below the cost of production. Yes it's true that silver is a better buy right now but that does not negate the value of gold also.
@Latitude25
Who gives a fig about production costs!
The GSR is telling YOU...................Silver is the best Value to gold by 76 / 1
You can double your oz roughly every 5 years using gsr
If want to miss out on an extra 20% gain each year........................you go for it
With the recent declines in PM prices you may be losing a bit less with Silver....So there is no real gain,is there, when valued in FIAT?
Silver is not the best bet by 76 to 1 over Gold.
Let us suppose that we have a reversion to the mean to a GSR of 53 to 1, if my memory serves correct..
Then you will have picked up an average an extra Half Ounce of Silver for every ounce of Gold which you converted while GSR was 76 to 1. And that is not 76 to 1, but roughly, one and a half to one.
See my analysis below.
@xau xag... I wasn't seeking a personal insult... my education is just fine..
however i was interested in your position on PM and your take on owning silver is valid. Im a phyzz gold saver because of its storage convenience... while its not literally buried in my back garden, it not within the banking system. for me silver is just too bulky for that.
Also i dont think a few $$€€ either way on the GSR will make the blind bit of difference over the course of the next 15 years...
@ramgold2206
So you don't want to double your oz roughly every 5 years for free??
And over your 15 years that would be trebble??
Ie 50z of gold now you can get 3800oz silver
5 years 3800 you get 100z gold
5 yeras that 100z gets you 7600z silver
5 years 7600z gets you 200z
Whats not to like
And that is why no one should be buy Gold at present...................just silver
@ramgold2206
quote
Also i dont think a few $$€€ either way on the GSR will make the blind bit of difference over the course of the next 15 years...
As my post shows 50z Gold can turn into 200 oz in that time using the GSR
If you want to miss out that's your problem...................
ps in 20 years that then double to 400z
25 years 800z
30 years 1600z
35 years 3200z
40 years 6400z
etc etc etc
yes mathmatically that theory is possible but dang hard to apply becuase you are speculating on the GSR not focusing on the PM behind it. The GSR wont always stay at that rate and is much more volitile that the underlying PM as a store of wealth. if there was a serious economic event, that ratio could be flung widly out.. fucking up your componding (of course it could go the other way for you - and your living on a greek island) but again that speculation..
in my mind playing the GSR is like trying to reverse two trailers ..... it can be done but its fuckin hard!!!!
anyway i make commisssions getting ordinary people saving small weight gold bullion each week. so maybe im biased!!
www.teamramgold.com
@Ramgold2206
look up XAU in google
look up XAG
look at this chart
http://goldprice.org/charts/history/gold_all_data_silver.png
GSR is not speculation....................it tells you when you should be buying silver and when gold.
Swawp them at the bottoms and tops and you can have a free lunch.
That is why I had a pop..........................you are promoting GOLD (nothing wrong with that) at the wrong time................silver is now
It's what peeves me with the whole gold silver promoters........................but it is in their interest not to say only buy silver at this time.................they would not sell any gold LOL
@xau xag to be fair to you your a bright lad/lady ... and thank fuck a sense of humor too on a friday afternoonl; which is always appreciated!
@ramgold2206
I am not bright.......................I just pick things up.
To be honest it has been a long time for me to get in a position for all silver. And have not pulled trigger yet as it may go higher.
I missed out last time due to being with the wrong gold and silver IE not CGT free! So i could not swawp without causeing major tax bill (It's a long story LOL)
Hopefully you can see why I object to buy GOLD / silver only advertisements and promotions.
To me it's like promoting buying the housing market at the top !
When there is a clear way of determining which to buy accept when it is at it's average.
Perhaps you will buy silver with your commision ?? LOL
Don't take it personal....................HTH
haha...your ok AXU if i took things personal in here i'd be throwing myself of the biggest cliff in Ireland, considering the abuse I take for promoting my karatbars website. Personally I'm delighted to have the engagement and conversation today, the day we stop learning is the day we stop living.
Personally my mission is to get some of the less informed people of the world saving in PM.. I choose karatbars because it was, for all its faults, the best solution for these people that I could find. they can get involved in the PM for relatively small money, get a bit of education, and perhaps get some AU. Personally own property, business, land and phyzz.. etc so its not just about the money for me.. i genuinely want to help people
There is an opportunity for more informed individuals such as yourself to profit from your knowledge by helping others... thats why im here to promote the oppotunity because for the model to work as it should the leaders need to informed.. and the cream always rises to the top...
haha...your ok AXU if i took things personal in here i'd be throwing myself of the biggest cliff in Ireland, considering the abuse I take for promoting my karatbars website. Personally I'm delighted to have the engagement and conversation today, the day we stop learning is the day we stop living.
Personally my mission is to get some of the less informed people of the world saving in PM.. I choose karatbars because it was, for all its faults, the best solution for these people that I could find. they can get involved in the PM for relatively small money, get a bit of education, and perhaps get some AU. Personally I own property, business, land and phyzz.. etc so its not just about the money for me.. i genuinely want to help people
There is an opportunity for more informed individuals such as yourself to profit from your knowledge by helping others... thats why im here to promote the oppotunity because for the model to work as it should the leaders need to informed.. and the cream always rises to the top...
Noble
The biggest heist in history will be the bail ins
Not sure when they are comming...............EU pushing some countries to get laws passed and introduced by Jan 2016
America, UK, Canada, Ausrtrailer I believe laws already passed.
It's Big......................they have not passed thease laws for no reason.
Take care
and..................................Got Silver!
Even though silver is now historically cheap realtive to gold, the absolute value of the gold-silver ratio is pretty irrelevant actually. As long as inflation expectations remain subdued and industrial commodities are under pressure due to the slowdown in China, the ratio will keep rising. It has been at 100 at one point (around 1993 if memory serves) and that can easily happen again. It could even go to 150, there is no law that says it cannot do that.
Transportability...storage...possibility of Deflationary environment.
Yes I understand the Gold Silver Ratio ((GSR).
But there are other reasons to buy Gold over that of Silver if one is not speculating a drop of the GSR to 50...to 30...and possibly even to 11 if you buy into Road to Roota Theory that Gold Inventories are massively underreported, while Silver Inventories are being massively overreported while, concurrently, being depleted.
Silver Inventories may be overreported. I will agree with that. I will also agree that Silver's application as an Indutrial Metal also serves to deplete World Inventories.
But the path of hyperdeflation versus that of hyperinflation has still not yet crystallized.
Gold is a core wealth preservation investment where as Silver is much more speculative.
During the Great Depression of the 1930s I could trade the ONE FIFTH OUNCE of Silver in a US Quarter Dollar and buy ONE TROY OUNCE of Silver. The price of Gold,on the other hand, appreciated.
I could have cashed in on that increase IF I had my Gold outside of the borders of the USA. FDR's Executive Order ONLY applied to DOMESTICALLY HELD Gold...not Gold that private citizens owned in Foreign Vaults. That loophole was intended for the wealthy after all, those with the Swiss Bank Accounts.
If that Deflationary Depression manifests then the DEMAND for industrial applications of Silver will plummet and you may even see unprecedented GSRs of over 100.
Now I do have a speculative position in Physical Silver as I personally believe that the Hyperinflationary Inferno is much more likely to develop rather than that of the Deflationary Meltdown. There is the Politics and they will need to destroy King Dollar as the World Reserve Currency before moving to the IMF's SDR.
Do not misunderstand me. I do follow Bix Weir and I do listen to what he has to say. Now I do not necessarily agree with everything that he reports. And watching him open up that crate of Gold from a Phillipine Cave was interesting.
But I am hedging both developments and I am more concerned with the preservation of wealth rather than profitting from the misery and suffering of countless millions, if not billions, of people.
'TT
I do not follow Bix Weir
Just look up GSR over last 50 yeras
Roughly every 5 years it swing from high to low and back.
If you are seriouse about PM's.......................GSR tells what to buy and when.....................forgetting the price
If you are serious about Silver then you ought to read Bix Weir.
He has some decent analysis.
I am very aware of the GSR.
I have employed it before, selling Silver to purchase Gold, when the GSR was low, and selling Gold to acquire Silver when the GSR was elevated, as it stands now.
But everything, at this point, is not about GAIN.
And as it currently stands we are on the precipice of an abyss. When that cataclysmic event happens, when we cross over that Event Horizon, what is considered as normal economic rules will no longer apply.
In fact we have already seen manifestations of the breakdown of long standing Economic Rules as I write this, and, with those empirical observations, we mave have already entered into the abyss from which there is no escape.
So at this point in the hazard filled journey I am more concerned with wealth preservation over that of gain.
@TT
I am using the GSR to protect and .....................gain my oz held.......................price excluded it's very simple.
Easiest free lunch and it's outside the banking system
@ramgold2206
I am waiting for your genuine answer??
ramgold2206 genuine question.. would you rather have a stack of phyzz or not?
-----
I will reply to you since you haven't been around very long. I don't post as much as I use to because it was getting old repeating myself. Here is my position that hasn't changed and for the most part I have been correct.
I do have some physical, but only a small portion. I expect and have expected and predicted the price of PMs to continue to decline. This was based off of historical occurrences of the the Great Depression. All commodities collapsed back then because of several factors which include declining demand and declining inudustrial output and declining GDP's around the globe. And secondly, most people had to sell assets for basic necessities which means people even sold their PMs when they had to get cash to get food, clothing and shelter. That leads to my other prediction that cash (US dollar) wil be king until it finally collapses because people will need those dollars to service debts and buy basic necessities. Those have been my main premises. Of course I've given a few other predictions I have been totally wrong on such as beef prices. I f'ed up on that one. But I am one of the few that was willing to make such predictions and also admit when I was wrong.
So basically I do have some PMs. I don't recommend more then 20% of what you can afford to invest. I am looking for silver to eventially break $10/oz and gold to break 1000/oz. Then I would suggest it is a tremendous buy and I want to have the cash to be buying it up from all the people that had to sell because they bought it at higher prices.
There will be a dangerous curve to round. You have to consider the possibility that so many parties are waiting for this capitulation you describe, "chomping at the bit" to get in on the cheap and easy. Too many people at the "Buy" gates could trigger a hell of a squeeze that TPTB may not be able to get in enough naked shorts in time, thereby triggering bullish-moving events. Furthermore, insane simultaneous demand could also delay you getting your phyzz, assuming that's how you roll in this game. (For me, it's strictly a 100% phyzz, delivered and put in the vault outside of Bank$ter control) Yes, I strongly agree there will be those who bet the whole ranch on one oversized basket. It's a gamble that might "make" them, yet history shows it will likely break them.
I'm in Harry Dent's camp to the extent that PM's and EVERYTHING shall encounter a deflationary pause. I differ as I predict the event will not be an extended one (not years, but months at the most) and believe that many who capitulate needlessly shall regret it and may never forget it, spare forgiving themselves for allowing their emotions to overload their arses. As you, I already have some $$ outside of the banking system. As Greece, I fully expect more banking controls and banking holidays to reach American shores. Desperate governments do desperate things, more often overdoing or underdoing depending on the class of Sheeple being affected. I believe you have a very sound plan going. If more did as you, the overall aftershocks won't be near as painful.
My only regret is not having warned anyone interested about the beef situation. Living in cattle country as I do, my area was absolutely baked with three years of severe drought. So many cattle were slaughtered and prices were nice, but I saw a lot of rebuilding to take place once the weather changed. Finally, green grasses late last year and this area has above-normal rainfall. Futures are still bullish (literally and figuratively) but the pendulum will swing too far where a balance will come about after the wiggles. Such are these markets. To nail the next one? Learn how to analyze the agri reports each day (I tune in religiously) and from time to time, talk with the cowboys at the sale barns and feed lots in the know.
Where's the 4000 tonnes everyone talks about?
Prob spread about China................................Citizens buy gold!
How many peeps in China?
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-population/
Each Celestial has 1oz, so, a Billion ozs!!!
Never trust a leftist
China clearly does not want to rock the boat, that's a very low figure for an 6 year period.
Gold aside how far can silver drop till it's going to cause a problem, it's so cheap and getting cheaper.
76:1 and climbing is starting to look like a screaming value buy.
It's been a SCREAMING VALUE (emphasis mine) for some time now. Too many will wait and wait, a bottom will set, then it's suddenly "too high" in terms of fiat dollars or other currencies to finally get in the lifeboat. Tsk, tsk, tsk... (fart)
Stackers as myself will get the last laugh. There are alternate plans for many of us who aren't at all worried about cashing to a fiat currency. I'll leave it at that and wave the middle finger of enlightenment down the road when the super Reserve Currency Freeway finally runs out and the oversized tin can which our Dear Leaders continue kicking simply cannot travel any farther. Their "Bridge to Nowhere" bandaids already have less effect as the spring much be further tightened inward. It's less effect in regard that the costs given to continue the Ponzi gets higher and higher. These being printed out of nowhere will carry a hefty price in the future as these same bank$ters won't want to grant a Debt Jubilee. Such a phrase is verboten anywhere in their house!
Meanwhile, the river which said Dear Leaders have sold us further down and downward is about to run out in the Sea. The Market shall make that decision for each of us, likely collectively and simultaneously as their Black Boxes allow. It will be a matter of which side of the trade you're on.
It's economic schadenfreude when the fat lady on stage finally hits that sweet note. Her rehearsals are already done. You stackin' yet?
So, they let out just enough of an increase officially to stabilize their markets.
Later, more ounces will dribble out.
I had thought they would join the SDR this Fall.
One thing is apparent: they do seem to be accumulating barbarous relics.
China is telling the truth about how much gold its central bank has.
The additional truth is that there is probably another Chinese government entity or entities that also have large gold hoards.
They will disclose the truth incrementally as the need arises and as it suits them.
They bought what they could buy without breaking stuff. Global gold production is overstated. Eeryone is lying about everything in gold space to protect fraud. And that is the only truth.
China: 1054 to 1658 (+604 tonnes)
Russia: 532 to 1250 (+718 tonnes)
http://www.bullionbaron.com/2015/07/china-updates-gold-reserves-first-ti...
The transfer of gold holdings from the west to Asia. A cuurency backed by gold soon.
Bernanke's relic gold will eventually kill the dollar.
China is being patient again and has a long-term plan, whereas the US and Europe are partying Zimbabwe style.
I think the gold is IN China, but it doesn't belong to China. It belongs to rotten Rothschild.
C'mon... 1000s here we come.
57% , no way Jose.
China is a True Paper Tiger! They got less gold then Fucking FRANCE!!! Time to take some Hemlock! UUUHHH!!!
AND
the price of gold is STILL FALLING
despite the continuous stream of "YOU *MUST* BUY GOLD" hype
The gold fanatics are just as psycho as the equity fanatics.
They are stacked with dollars and U.S. debt obligations. Gold is an archaic sideshow for them. At this point, they can buy any fucking thing they want.
@ Prober ... LOL ... that made my morning ... hard to counter your argument ... they say your psycho if you get on your own nerves!! im annoying the fuck out of myself all morning ... so maybe!!!
anyway.. buy gold NOW!!! before the ass falls out of the world
www.teamramgold.com
Gold WILL surge in price ONLY WHEN there are serious major threats to global monetary & financial system - that WILL happen eventually - BUT not for many many more years of extend and pretend.
Between now and then, investing in gold is wasteful.
Hey youall, send me your fiat. I will then buy gold with it and hold it for you. Thanks.
I've often wondered, when the currency of a country was a precious metal currency, how did the currency get recycled back into the economy after it was hoovered up by the oligarchs? Did they spend it all back into the economy (as consumers)? Or did they always keep some from the till, basically hoarding it? Because if they hoarded it, then the amount in circulation would have decreased, causing deflation. Of course this would have been offset by any newly minted currency, but I'm curious what the oligarchs were doing. Cheers!
People don't have much fucking use for gold. They would rather exchange paper notes for useful shit. And if you have useful shit to sell, you are more than happy to take paper notes if you know the next guy will do the same from you and you won't get caught holding the bag if the paper note loses all value. A dollar today is worth all the shit you can buy with it today. Having gold available in banks for exchange doesn't help or change anything.
They would lend it out, would they not?
I wonder what this lbma presentation from the chairman of the China gold association was all about?
Its saying 9,816 tonnes at the end of 2014.
http://www.lbma.org.uk/assets/events/BMF2015/Zhang%20Bingnan_EN1.pdf
Never trust a leftist and never trust anyone talking their 'book'.
Answer: https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/koos-jansen/how-much-are-chinese-gold-...
thanks.
So who is holding the price down – Europeans or Israelites are the only two choices. LOL
Looks like the monkey found a bigger hammer.
What is easier? Making gold illegal and confiscating it's? Or making gold undesirable and having people beg you to take it off your hands for a song. It is similar to the sheep who are tortured endlessly as they open their brokerage statement during a relentless bear market, ( back in the old days when they were allowed), until they capitulated, sold out and didn't have to face that monthly statement again. Always a buy signal.
So many amateurish opinions about speculation I'm shocked. You think that missing out on the greatest Bull Run in stocks and watching gold remain completely flat for the last six years would've taught people something… But nope! I would be wrong.
"It's way easier to sweep in here since they got rid of all those bars" - Ft. Knox Janitor
Those vaults are supposed to be sealed. Arrest that Janitor!!!
Well below my expectations. And well below their purchasing powers if they really wanted to stack lots of gold.
So can it be China causing gold shorts in order to pick up cheap when it has purchased such an ordinary amount since 2009?
Why release these figures which they should know are way below everybody's expectations? It isn't impressive at all.
Maybe they are trying another method of softening the gold market?
There has not been a bull run in stocks, a bull run in QE
What is this 8133 tons in the U.S.S.A that you speak of???....
With platinum at 1000, gold should be at 900, this news might do it finally...
I doubt that the US has much gold left...See the leaked NWO/Annunaki website..
http://revelation12.ca/?p=2089
Well it certainly had an immediate affect on gold price.
Maybe they will have a few more ounces after today.
China's #'s are most likely fraudulent. Why would we expect their gold #'s to be any more real than the other #'s
Gold drops $15 after the announcement?
That doesn't make sense to me.
The market has been heavily manipulated down. What better time to buy it on discount?
ANd so what if it pushes price up, it revalues it current holdings, and not as though it costs them a whole to buy it in comparison to their reserves.
It all sounds like bullshit to me
The PBOC, Wall St and the City of London are working together to make sure China gets gold at the lowest price possible, just as the central bank heads of the Axis powers countries and Allied powers countries worked side by side at the BIS during WWII. The finance community is above conflict, their role is much too solemn and important to be involved in such pettiness, as central banking is as sublime and immutable as air and water. All 3 parties in their moral clarity and objective wisdom agree that WWIII is absolutely neccessary to protect this vital and essential institution and will coordinate to protect their finacial institutions during the conflict as they goad and direct their government underlings to smash and thrash each other for the flag for awhile. It truly is hilarious witnessing the delicate dance the western press must perform of gloating over China's stock troubles while at the same time continuing the "great unstoppable Chinese economy that will save us all" promotion.
China doesn't release official figures, especially something they haven't revealed for 6 years, without a purpose.
So why did they reveal these figures now? Softent he Yuan, cheapen gold, affect rates?
Quite fankly China could have said it had 6,000 tons and it would have been believed, and no way for it to be checked. But they decided on a below expectation figure.
Back in 2008 I came to the conclusion that gold and silver are nothing without/until steel and lead. You don't get to win against a central bank like Soros did anymore. The Daily Bell suggested that he was only allowed to win for the price of becoming a lefty statist, and I believe it. And I believe that if Buffett announced he bought a lot of physical gold or silver he would very quickly succomb to a heart attack, plane crash, car crash or indictment.
No Au and Ag until Pb. The fundamentals don't matter. Furthermore, global central bank coordination and finance community unity is so fluid that there is likely a plan somewhere to get all the gold in the world in one place and nuke it or sink it in the deepest part of the ocean.
Why do people care one way or the other about how much fiat you can trade it for one day? What the eff is 10 Gs an ounce if 10 Gs is the price of a loaf of bread? Obsessing over the price of Au in fiat sounds like what you really want is to get that old thing back. Au and Ag is for when you've finally let it go, you know, in your mind. If you're dreaming of the day it's 50 grand an ounce, you don't get it. Once again, claiming to be resistance but playing by their rules. As long as you discuss the price of gold in dollars and think of it's value in dollars, they win.
@ceomegaglobalcorp... thats a fuckin awsome post and mindset you have... bravo...
It's a way of generically measuring the value of PMs. Otherwise you're talking about the number of loaves of bread for an ounce, or number of men's suits it'll buy. How else would you do it?
Because the price right now is artificial. First let's see what the real market price is, then we can talk about what it will do in hyperinflation. In other words, it doesn't require additional monetary inflation or general price inflation for gold to go to say, $3,000, $5,000 or $10,000 per oz--just a free undistorted market, a breaking of fiat master's deathgrip. That is why many of us care about the fiat "price" of gold, a fundamental economic lie.
Yes, if the price of precious metals have been manipulated for any length of time, then the ubiquitous "when gold is $50,000 an ounce then a loaf of bread will go up in the EXACT same proportion" meme is incorrect. When the true price is established by the free market, then gold and silver should see an increase their purchasing power.
Empty, empty, meaningless bullshit disinfo piece. All I know is that the faster the precious paper price drops, the closer we are to the announcement of a force majeure. The banks know they will ultimately have to settle all accounts in an outright cash settlement, so they are trying to push the price down as far as possible beforehand.
The irony in all this? The only opposing force to pushing the price down to, say, a $buck --are the clueless hordes who have been drinking the kool-aid and still believe they are buying actual gold and silver.
Like playing "chicken" on a greasy hi-way.
suckers
EDIT: AI on the way. Gold, silver, oil, humans <-- won't be needed so much.
The report is a crock of shit- I reject it.
They are coordinating with the western banks, they also issue fiat currency, they are even worse liars than our own ratbastard banktards. Now they can continue the suckage at the lowest prices.
Should be a good enough reason for yet another smackdown.
Maybe Germany can get it gold back, then .... if it's so easy for the Chinese to find some spare gold ?
A live media event, open to the global press and a few independent auditors from outside nations. That event doesn't come however, until the U.S. economy is already on its knees.
How did you like Obama's .... end of Ramadan gift to Allah .... the urgently signed "Iran Deal" .... the ink dried .... before the plaster in Kerry's cast ?
The Chinese people are the Numero Uno buyers of gold coins so it would be interesting to know how much they have in their closets, mattresses, etc...which, of course we will never know. Asians -- Pakis, Chinese, Indians, Cambodians, etc -- buy gold both as a store of wealth and a SECRET store of wealth.
Last time in Asia I stayed on Yaowarat (street of gold) in Bangkok so I could poke around.
Those Asians are serious about the stuff. Dozens if not hundreds of shops, one after the other, all posting their morning and pm spot prices on the glass windows. In each shop were hundreds of gold chains hanging around and virtually everything is 97% Thai gold.
Didn't see coins in the gold shops though. Heard you can get some at select banks but I didn't have time to see.
So, is this the total China gold reserves? If it is, it is a big bust. Since 2009 they have increased their holdings by only this much? How embarrassing for China.
Very embarrassing. At this rate they need 70 years to have as much gold as the US. By then I'm already dead.
Well that explains why PM's keep dropping. /sarcasm
I am /sure that the FED is transparent and honest enough to allow audits and release US gold holdings when the DOW and S&P start to crash.
Oh so that's why the Gold price is falling like a rock today !!!
Way under expectations, no wonder gold is headed to zero.
Less than zero! I will charge you $20/oz to put it back in the ground.
On the China news, I just bought another 40 Gold Eagles this morning...
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So on this day, the big announcement, that nobody really believes is the actually amount the filthy Chinese are holding, somebody dumps 1.4 billion in gold futures?
Uh-huh…
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-17/silver-slammed-someone-dumps-14...
How much gold does China actually have?
Perhaps as much as 30,000 tons.
Perhaps as little as 0 tons.
Like the USSA & others, China is not showing.
And like the USSA & others, much may now be sold or leased.
All major governments are absolute, complete, total liars & frauds.
Can't you guys emphasize this China gold story by digging up one of your old photos of a crowded gold shop in China?
So they've been buying just over 8 tons a months for the past 6 years? WTF? That's less than a number of third world dumps. That puts them to shame compared to their big enemies India.
but at least no dangerous tea-party Amish type guy went nutso and shot up any recruiting centers or military bases.
China is doing what you should have been doing.
Fools.
Oh, how the useful idiots are going to suffer.
LOL
This particular Tyler is reaching for witticism at the expense of deep anaysis when claiming this figure and anncement was intended to boost condifence and help the Chinese stock market. If anything, this joke of a figure lessens confidence because it's such a big lie from the their true horde, and even if someone were to take the figure seriously, it's still not a lot of gold in the grand scheme of things and at current prices relative to the overall massive bloat in the Chinese credit system.
I have bought more gold than that. Ridiculous figure....
This isn't about the stock market, it's about yuan depreciation. China's forex reserves are falling and the yuan drops everytime forex reserves stop growing, let alone contract.
Why Did China Announce Its Gold Reserves? Yuan Depreciation PressureGold ultrashort GLL about to spike soon, that's gonna hurt
Gold at new post-2011 ATH low
The translation of this item leaves something to be desired. Why is the reported increase less than the speculation? Keep in mind that the Chinese public is permitted to hold gold, and is, in fact, encouraged to do so. Another interesting item is the fact that the exchange rate dollar/yuan has remained very close to 6.20 for many months now. This indicates that, even though the yuan is theoretically "free floating," its exchange rates are controlled by the Chinese authorities. Effectively, it is pegged to the dollar at the moment. My guess as to the reason for this is their desire to slow down any massive capital movements based on exchange rates. While it wishes to give the yuan international status, it also wants to demonstrate its stability.
you say
and we see from another relative zh article today that while China was buying gold, they were also selling US Treasuries.
Obviously, they were buying gold in March, April and May, from the proceeds of the UST sales and in June, too. BUT THEY DID NOT ANNOUNCE TO THE WORLD THAT THEY WERE INCREASING THEIR HOLDINGS OF GOLD BY PUBLISHING THE AMOUNT OBTAINED IN THOSE MONTHS.
So they kept the holdings for March, April, and May the same.
ONLY A STUPID, FUCKED UP ASSHOLE WOULD ANNOUNCE TO THE WORLD HE WAS BUYING A COMMODITY TO LET THE CARL ICAHNS OF THE SEWERS START A BIDDING AND RAISE THE COSTS OF ACCUMULATING IT.
this is zh dude. wake up.
avergaing down from $1900 again