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Germany Struggles With Too Much Renewable Energy
Submitted by Gaurav Agnihotri via OilPrice.com,
Since the 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster, Germany has been one of the few countries that have successfully moved away from nuclear energy. Germany has so far successfully shut down its nine units that had the capacity of generating enough power for at least 20 million homes in Europe. In fact, the contribution of nuclear power in Germany’s electricity generation has now fallen to just 16 percent and renewables are now the preferred source of electricity generation in the country.
Image Source: GreenTechMedia
However, Germany and its neighbors are now facing an unusual problem. With the dramatic increase in green energy usage, Germany is generating so much electricity from renewables that it is finding it hard to handle it. The excess electricity that is generated is being spilled over to its neighboring countries, thereby increasing the threat of a power blackout should there be a sudden supply disruption.
How much should Germany invest to solve this problem?
Although Germany has increased its renewable energy generation by almost five times in the last decade, it has failed to invest in building the necessary infrastructure to carry this energy. The excess electricity that is being generated by Germany is spilling over to Poland and Czech Republic, two countries that are investing close to $180 million to shore up their grids from Germany’s power spillage.
“A huge accumulation of overflow increases the threat of a blackout. The root of the situation is allowing a huge amount of electricity to be generated regardless of the capacity of the grid,” said Zbynek Boldis of Czech grid CEPS AS. It is quite obvious that Germany needs to upgrade its network to accommodate the excess power. In fact, grid companies in Germany are set to invest close to $24 billion for upgrading their network and modify its existing high voltage power lines.
Is there a way that this excess power is stored?
Yes, there is an energy storage technology that has the capability of storing this excess power. The power to gas technology basically converts the excess electricity into gaseous energy by producing a zero carbon hydrogen gas. This gas can then be converted into renewable methane and used as an energy source in future. German auto giant Audi was the first to use this technology by setting up the world’s first 6 MW- ‘power to gas’ plant in its home country.
In fact, Audi’s E-gas plant is now directly contributing to the stabilization of the country’s power grid. German grid operators are welcoming players that can contribute to stabilize its fluctuating energy production. According to Germany’s second biggest grid operator, Tennet TSO GmbH, an energy-balance player must be capable of drawing close to 6MW power from the grid within a period of five minutes while operating on its standard load profile. Audi’s e-gas plant has been successful in meeting this criterion and has been able to produce more e-gas at the same time by increasing its targets.
What is the price of this power?
The balancing power market has created a tremendous buzz in Germany as several new players are entering this market where utilities can end up getting paid 400 times more than the wholesale electricity rates. However, the increase in the number of new players has reduced overall prices.
“More supply means lower prices and that means lower costs for German end users,” said Armasari Soetarto who is a spokeswoman of the Bonn based authority. According to data from Next Kraftwerke, the price of power capacity that is available in the span of five minutes has reduced to around $1232 per MWh from $1,877 per MWh in January 2015.
However the biggest price drop is for electricity capacity with the capability of reducing output within 15 minutes. Those prices have dropped to $401 per MWh from the earlier $1,794 per MWh in January 2015. In 2014, companies operating in the balancing power market got close to $1.1 billion through direct payments. As Germany tries to double its power output from renewables by 2034, the balancing power market is set to grow in the next few decades.
Can companies from neighboring countries gain from cheap German electricity?
Traders based in Austria have, in fact, gained at lot from cheap German electricity. These traders sell German electricity at higher prices to other countries at capacities that far exceed the planned figures. However, the German-Austrian market is now coming under scrutiny from European regulators and Austrian traders are now blocked from buying German power.
Cheap German electricity would indeed find a lot of takers, especially the companies and grid operators in neighboring countries Poland and Czech Republic. The price of German electricity is around 18 percent less than what is available in Poland, so it makes financial sense to buy cheaper electricity from Germany. “My boss keeps asking why we aren’t buying power from Germany, but this is practically impossible,” said Henryk Kalis who is an energy buyer for ZGH Boleslaw that is controlled by Arcellor Mittal.
In order to change this market outlook, it is extremely important that Germany invests in its energy infrastructure and brings it in line with its renewable energy generation. It is ironic that a country which produced around 78 percent of its power consumption from renewables in July 2015 still struggles to ship its cheap power from the northern region to its southern region.
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Funny how the auther spins "too much energy" as a bad thing. Berlin will be stoked to have the energy during the next oil shock.
Do you have ANY idea of how the grid works? Supply and demand must balance over milliseconds.
So this cheap German energy is too expensive for germans to use so they export it for next to nothing? Crap article.
Dumping energy is easy. I could dump my entire household energy budget easily into eight or so hot-water heating elements. Use PWM controller at the micro level to dump the energy. At the macro level you'd use rectifying transformers to do that.
But storing the energy in hydrogen?
That is done through electrolysis.
Electrolysis AT BEST converts 10-15% of the energy to hydrogen...and then you have to capture and store the hydrogen.
10-15% efficient means 85-90% inefficient.
It would be more efficient to simply dump it.
Late to the discussion so maybe this was already mentioned, but Electric Cars are also a form of Energy Storage. Assuming Wind Energy is being generated (intermittently) 24/7 then some excess power can be stored overnight. Likewise if vehicles can be plugged in at city/home parking spots.
Musk's $4k Powerwall runs TV for 3 hrs - takes all day to recharge - WTF
More bullshit. TV's take very little power. Where do you get this bullshit from?
My 55 inch LCD uses 320 watts,,,
A 32 inch CRT TV used about 150 Watts.
My LED monitors and HDTV use 80 watts and 120 watts respectively
All my screens are LED which is different than LCD which uses MORE power.
My LED monitors and HDTV use 80 watts and 120 watts respectively
All my screens are LED which is different than LCD which uses MORE power.
Tell you what, why don't you take some time and view some YouTubes about peoples' home solar systems instead of spewing bullshit here.
Sorry HJ,,, As an owner of a solar system, not a seller, Solar is every bit the loser Bronson says it is and maybe more so. I'll be glad to debate it but live debates are impossible on ZH.
The proof in the pudding is government subsidies or more accurate, the theft of our money to make up the losses undertaken by the bamboozled solar / wind owners. If they were truly viable they would not need those 'subsidies'
The whole charade is to lend credence to the global warming, carbon nonsense.
I call bullshit on your claim to be owner of solar system.
Suggest you watch some YouTubes of people who actually have solar systems and how much they love it.
You must be one of the ROI guys.
One guy I know , got home built and had his whole system rolled into the mortgage. He has electric vehicles and NO electric bill whatsoever.
You can try blowing your smoke up someone elses ass.
Outback 3600 watt 48V Inverter VFX3648
Outback Flexmax 80
Outback System Controler and hub
Outback Flex net Charge monitor
Outback 120 / 240 transformer E229155
16 6 volt Trojan Batteries L16Re-B
12 Kyocera KD205GX-LP Panels with a Midnight DC Solar Disconnect.
And excuse me if I don't believe everything on youtube!
Entire system cost about $23000. most purchased from Northern Arizona Wind and Sun.
I also have a well with a Simple Pump run on 12vdc with 2 Kyocera Panels with a Morningstar ProStar 30 charge controller with 4- 6volt Trojan Golf Cart Batteries. Series Parallel.
You gonna call bullshit on that too.
Your a pretty sad case calling people you don't know liars.
I have nearly the same as you, except no 48V, no 120/240 trans., 12 solar specific batteries, 8 -190 watt panels ( cosmetic 2nds) and my well runs off a Grunfols 110V AC pump (powered by the house) which feeds a large pressure tank. But my well is less than 100 yds away. I shopped around extensively and spent around $13,500 on materials and another $2500 for expert installation help. I do not need AC, ever, but my appliances are normal household including frig/ dishwasher/washer/dryer ( gas), TV, computer, vacuum cleaner, etc. I have a 9000 W gasoline generator for the rare times I need it. I heat with passive solar and wood.
This article is flawed from the get go.
That chart is not what is generated, but what "capacity" has been constructed. That difference is EVERYTHING and without costs stated....useless mental masterbation.
The productive spectrum of renewable energies in Germany start and end with their hydro infrastucture. Past that, it is a failure of the grandest utopian kind.
Germany' renewable energy "plan" is, as has been noted by others, in a tailspin (except hydro) and is not a pathway forward.
The goal is, as it always has been, AFFORDABLE energy for Germany and that goal remains more elusive, not less. Solar and wind are both loosers of the highest order.
If Americans were confronted with the choices that the vast majority of Germans are in regard to enegy cost and usage, well, drill baby drill.
For those still struglling with all this, ALL the renewable energy CONSTRUCTED in the U.S. (not generated, never will generate capacity) is about 2% in the U.S.
''Solar and wind are both loosers of the highest order.;
Loose=opposite of tight
Lose=Opposite of win.
You are so full of shit. Ask anyone who has converted their home to solar.
and Learn to spell.
Gosh....I feel so.....so.....spelling challenged.
I talk to them all the time. Those living in desert areas have a view very different than those that don't.
Typical? 13 year payback, and you are left with a system that is a fraction of the efficiency of the newer system.
Degradation rates approaching 3% per annum.
Average saved? $500...after rebates and tax benefits, etc. etc.
But 30 years down the road....everyone gets a pony!
But at parties they actually have something to talk about...to other solar home owners.
Even here in Northen Europe the latest panels are very efficient even on cloudy days.
I know you guys are behind in tech (as always).
We had wide screen flat panel TV's years before the USA did.
Also smart phones,
Even here in Northen Europe the latest panels are very efficient even on cloudy days.
I know you guys are behind in tech (as always).
We had wide screen flat panel TV's years before the USA did.
Also smart phones,
Even here in Northen Europe the latest panels are very efficient even on cloudy days.
I know you guys are behind in tech (as always).
We had wide screen flat panel TV's years before the USA did.
Also smart phones,
Even here in Northen Europe the latest panels are very efficient even on cloudy days.
I know you guys are behind in tech (as always).
We had wide screen flat panel TV's years before the USA did.
Also smart phones,
well,
well,
well,
http://www.theenergycollective.com/schalk-cloete/324836/effect-intermittent-renewables-electricity-prices-germany
well,
well,
well,
http://www.theenergycollective.com/schalk-cloete/324836/effect-intermittent-renewables-electricity-prices-germany
Its all relative kid, I have much more disposable income than I had when living in the USA.
So the price of electricity may be higher here but so are wages.
Its all relative kid, I have much more disposable income than I had when living in the USA.
So the price of electricity may be higher here but so are wages.
Its all relative kid, I have much more disposable income than I had when living in the USA.
So the price of electricity may be higher here but so are wages.
Its all relative kid, I have much more disposable income than I had when living in the USA.
So the price of electricity may be higher here but so are wages.
Its all relative kid, I have much more disposable income than I had when living in the USA.
So the price of electricity may be higher here but so are wages.
Dutch Boy 2015 gets a home makeover.
Heywood, Here's how the home solar panel scam works in the U.S.:
1. fedgov creates subsidyto faciliate sales and provides construction grants to subsidize lower contractor prices
2. fedgov creates regulation that gives solar home retail price for excess dumped on to grid.
3. fedgov's new rule dictates that those without home solar units will pay higher kwh to pay solar home unit.
E-Gas is derived from coal. Why this is called Renewable in the same sense as Solar / Wind is like calling Hamburger cooking at McD's manufacturing.
As a Solar power owner -[ 12kw Kyocera panels, Outback Inverter and charger and Trojan batteries]- I can tell you it is NOT anywhere close to efficient or green. Everything from the batteries to the panels to the inverters and associated equipment are made from oil in one form or another. And I don't care what panels you use, when the clouds roll in your power rolls out. On just a hazy day you will lose 50% power.I installed that system to prove they are not viable UNLESS you steal OPM via government handouts comically call subsidies.
Same goes for those green light bulbs that cost 500 to 1000% more than an incandescent. Yes in warm weather they add to the heat but make up for it in winter when you want the heat. Also artificial lighting is used way less in summer making the added heat and energy negligible The 'green' bulbs contain chemicals like mercury that are released when thrown in the dump. Yes you can mandate returning the bulbs for proper disposal but that is adding to the cost... yes? If cost means nothing, like some say, then why did the corporations move manufacturing to China and other slave labor states?
This article is so much bullshit. Outstanding propaganda though.
You are the one who is full of shit. Totally
I guess you Americans can't buy the latest LED bulbs. made by Philips
As for your solar system. you are a liar or the hundreds of YouTubes I watched of people who made solar systems are LIARS.
I suspect its YOU.
Hey clownboy, you have a MPPT controller or PWM?
monocrystalline or polychristanline?
SLA batteries or LiPo4?
pure sinewave inverter?
Hey clownboy, you have a MPPT controller or PWM?
monocrystalline or polychristanline?
SLA batteries or LiPo4?
pure sinewave inverter?
I wish I could give you more than one up, RJ. It costs a lot of money to keep windmills turning.
Stop telling the truth, it's revolutionary and will land you in a 'green' dungeon. ;0
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-08-18/indian-airport-first-i...
/car.
..
There are some big bullshit artists here. Like this clown who said it takes more oil to build solar panels etc.
These same kind of bufffons drive around in big UGLY SUV's. when its not necessary to have a car that big.
They are probably so goddam obese like most Americans they can't fit into a normal car.
Socialism in action, "we need to invest in accommodating excess superflous energy generation not already being used"
wut?
Ya that's what they said.
Germany has a excess expensive energy problem, they make more juice than they can sell, they're spending more to generate juice than they can sell the juice.
I know, invade Russia!
Too bad Solar and wind don't last indefinitely, it might make sense.
When the sun goes out, we will all be dead.
Have you ever read your own comments? Talk about gibberish!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no such thing as "Too Much Renewable Energy"
unless you sell nukes or fossil fuel
You are totally ignorant of grid operation.
But I will give you a hint: power generation has to always match power use over very short time periods. Milliseconds. With some short tem allowance for short term (tens of milliseconds) imbalances of 1% or so.
http://protonboron.com/portal/power-grid-frequency-meter/
Perhaps, but....
1. You do the same thing three times in a row.
2. http://www.theenergycollective.com/schalk-cloete/324836/effect-intermittent-renewables-electricity-prices-germany
funny
Funny Tyler you omitted the price graph
The artcle is missing the point entirely. The energy excess is not the problem. Let us even put the prices of renewables aside.
The problem is rather instability and unpredictability of the power generation in time. In particular energy generated from solar and wind. Both have to be backed up by conventional sources up and running. The BMW is a good try but thousand times smaller than necessary in germany.
For example, according to Wikipedia, Germany had 34,6 GW of installed wind power while generating 53,4 TWh of energy in 2013. It makes only 17,6% effectivity in time!. Such a source is really difficult to use and incorporate in the grid.
When I lived in Germany in he mid 90s. Eifel region lots of hills, there was a call for investors for a wind farm in the region. I didn't get in on it but the people who did are getting nice dividends now. Lots of private companies in Germany. Same with solar. One company ''rents'' your roof if its the right angles and people can become part of a private grid.
Watch about it here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
When I lived in Germany in he mid 90s. Eifel region lots of hills, there was a call for investors for a wind farm in the region. I didn't get in on it but the people who did are getting nice dividends now. Lots of private companies in Germany. Same with solar. One company ''rents'' your roof if its the right angles and people can become part of a private grid.
Watch about it here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr-grdspEWQ
The article also mentions the storage problem but in Germany and in test sites in the Med there are sites where excess electricity is converted into hydrogen gas or other gasses that can be reconverted into electricity again. With conversion losses of course. You can also use the electricity to pump water into reservoirs and reuse that later for generating electricity.
But good on you Germany. You lead the way.
And the base load cannot rely upon renewables, so the fossil fuel infrastructure must be built and maintained. Anyone read about the birds being burned alive flying over solar panel farms?
If the U.S. had put such effort into renewable energy and into developing its own energy resources, we could get out of the Middle East entirely. This would let the People of the Middle East go back to doing what they do best - which is killing each other -- and let the United States go back to doing what made it great - which is selling arms to both sides of every war!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq0f6FXjyMk
"...storing this excess power..."
You don't store power...
How do you start your car?
How do you start your car?
With stored energy....
The question about subsidies is simple how much per KWh?
It is a low number for burnables. It is a high number for renewables.
It is funny - a site devoted (mostly) to economics and no one is talking rates. Just amounts. Stupid. No wonder the banksters are winning.
The energy to hydrogen deal is not so good. Round trip losses run to 50%.
I'm surprised that this is not well known.
There was a time when this site had a good amount of people who knew things. Now what I mostly see in the comments is people with anger.
And ya know. Wars begin with popular anger. And funny enough the sentiment here is supposedly anti-war. I don't believe it.
What the fuck is a renewable energy?
It is a fantasy created to enable a bunch of parasite businesses to loot consumers who are forced by government to buy their substandard product (electricity available at random times, not when you want it) at prices much higher than quality electricity.
Average price per Kwh in the US is just shy of .12 cents. Anyone read about the millions of birds dying by wind farm "ecocrucifix?"
The German Solar Disaster: 21 Billion Euros Burned
http://www.thegwpf.com/german-solar-disaster-21-billion-euros-burned/
Spain’s disastrous attempt to replace fossil fuels with Solar Photovoltaics
http://energyskeptic.com/2013/tilting-at-windmills-spains-solar-pv/
Solar – After Hundreds of Billions of Dollars of Subsidies and R&D and this is what we get?
http://reneweconomy.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/bernstein-energy-supply.jpg
Ten Reasons Intermittent Renewables (Wind and Solar PV) are a Problem
http://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/01/21/ten-reasons-intermittent-renewables-wind-and-solar-pv-are-a-problem/
Britain, Germany, Italy, Japan and France burned more coal between 2009 and 2013 and demanded poor countries slash their carbon emissions
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/08/five-g7-nations-incre...
This is a non-problem.
Here's an obvious low-tech, highly scalable solution that the Germans are more than capable of implementing:
http://euanmearns.com/flat-land-large-scale-electricity-storage-fles/