This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
The Economics Of Bernie Sanders
Submitted by William L Anderson via The Mises Institute,
As the political campaign of Hillary Clinton continues to run aground, Democrats are flocking to the campaign of Bernie Sanders, the self-described “socialist” US senator from Vermont, who has been a fixture in that state for more than three decades. Not unlike the presidential campaign of Ron Paul, Sanders is drawing large, enthusiastic crowds who are very receptive to his message of increased state control of the US economy.
Obviously, when a person running a campaign based upon socialist principles is drawing attention and big crowds, we might ask just what does Sanders mean by “socialist,” and what would he do if he were elected president of the United States? To better answer that question, I am taking a closer look at what we would call the “economics” of Bernie Sanders.
What Do We Mean by “Socialism”?
Before looking at Sanders’s platform, however, I believe it is important to note that when socialists speak of “victories” in the economy, they are not talking about actual results, but rather political achievements in the forms of laws being passed that mandate certain policies. Whether or not these policies actually achieve what socialists claim will be accomplished is another story altogether, but results are irrelevant to socialists.
This should surprise no one because, after all, socialism is based upon political control of the economy. True (or at least original) socialists believe that state agents via the “magic” of their authority should allocate all resources to where there is the greatest need for them. Political representatives, not surprisingly, determine what constitutes the greatest need. The state would take ownership of all factors of production and then wisely determine the needs and how production of goods would fulfill them.
Ludwig von Mises in 1920 in his short work, Socialism (three years later expanded into a book), exploded the socialist myth by pointing out that in a world of scarce resources, economies needed private ownership, prices, profits and losses to determine where resources should be directed. The early years of the “experiment” of the Soviet Union proved Mises correct, and socialists then sought to redefine what socialism actually meant.
In the USSR, and later in China and North Korea, the state took ownership of factors of production, but tried to create a parallel economy by using shadow prices and production functions via the mechanisms championed by Polish communist Oskar Lange, who admitted that Mises had pointed out serious flaws in the original plans of socialists. We also know how that “experiment” turned out, which is why there no longer is a USSR, China has abandoned much of the economics of Mao, and North Korea is a failed state where most people live in grinding poverty.
But people like Bernie Sanders, while maybe not rejecting the old socialism spiritually, nonetheless have embraced a “socialism” in which government takes ownership of large portions of what has been produced by private enterprise and transfers wealth from one group of people to another. A look at the Sanders website spells out his brand of “socialism” that he says is based upon what Nordic countries like Sweden, Denmark, and Norway have done, levying high taxes with governments using that funding for social programs like medical care and other public welfare initiatives.
Secondary Socialism
A number of people have pointed out that the Sanders “program” is not socialism per se, but rather is something based upon socializing the results of private enterprise, or what one might call secondary socialism. The Bernie Sanders regime would take control of some of the produce of private enterprise, as opposed to taking outright control of factors of production, which would remain in private hands. If this reminds one of the fascism of the 1930s, that is because Sanders is promoting a version of the governing models of Germany under Adolph Hitler and Italy under Benito Mussolini.
Of the two, Sanders certainly is closer to Mussolini. Like Sanders, Mussolini called himself a socialist and was a leader in the Italian Socialist Party. Like Sanders, Mussolini decried “profiteers” and the wealthy, and spoke out against political corruption. Like Sanders, Mussolini spoke of a larger “national purpose” and sought to harness nationalism as a political force. Like Sanders, Mussolini sought to impose more and more controls on Italian businesses in order to direct production in a way to satisfy political purposes. Like Sanders, Mussolini built political power by appealing to Italian voters by saying that other Italians were well-off because they had gained their wealth on the backs of the poor.
Having similar economic proposals to Hitler and Mussolini does not make Sanders either of those two men and it is important to emphasize that while Sanders regularly employs the powerful political tool of appealing to voter resentment of others, he is not advocating the kind of genocide that ultimately helped to characterize the fascism of Central Europe in the 1930s and 40s. Bernie Sanders is an economic nationalist, and economic nationalism was at the heart of European fascism, but we do not want to make unwarranted accusations against Sanders, either.
At the same time, I do not want to let Sanders off the hook. He promotes economic nationalism and has built his campaign upon resentment, the kind of which Henry Hazlitt wrote in 1966 in his famous, “Marxism in One Minute.” Hazlitt wrote:
The whole gospel of Karl Marx can be summed up in a single sentence: Hate the man who is better off than you are. Never under any circumstances admit that his success may be due to his own efforts, to the productive contribution he has made to the whole community. Always attribute his success to the exploitation, the cheating, the more or less open robbery of others. (Emphasis mine)
As one moves through the website for the Sanders campaign, there is plenty of resentment for others. First, there is the ubiquitous “One-Percent” that is the main focus of the typical Sanders stump speech:
This campaign is sending a message to the billionaire class: “you can’t have it all.” You can’t get huge tax breaks while children in this country go hungry. You can’t continue sending our jobs to China while millions are looking for work. You can’t hide your profits in the Cayman Islands and other tax havens, while there are massive unmet needs on every corner of this nation. Your greed has got to end. You cannot take advantage of all the benefits of America, if you refuse to accept your responsibilities as Americans.
While I would agree wholeheartedly that the US economy is in serious trouble, it is not because of the “greed” of billionaires. It is because the US government, through the Federal Reserve System, has created what David Stockman has called the “casino economy” that has substituted trading of sovereign debt and monetary manipulation for a real economy with interest rates that reflect actual economic fundamentals. Like the Bush and Clinton administrations before it, the Obama administration has promoted political entrepreneurship and demonized market entrepreneurship.
Sanders’s List of Recycled Twentieth-Century “Solutions”
Americans are not jobless because some people are not paying “their fair share” of taxes; they are jobless because the US government insists on directing resources from higher-valued uses to lower-valued uses, as determined by consumer choice. They are jobless because Washington insists on remaking the economy in its own image, and there is nothing in the entire Sanders campaign that would change any of the things that vex the US economy the most.
So, what does Sanders propose to “revitalize” the US economy? Here are some things listed on his website:
- Raise taxes on US corporations (ironically, corporate tax rates in the Nordic countries are substantially lower than current corporate taxes in the USA, something that has escaped Sanders’s notice);
- Raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour;
- Expand the reach of labor unions and vastly expand their membership;
- Make it illegal for US corporations to manufacture goods abroad, and then sell those goods in the USA;
- Impose new taxes on financial transactions;
- Spend at least a trillion dollars on building and repairing roads, bridges, and utilities;
- Create a “youth jobs program” in which unemployed young people are given government-sponsored jobs (Sanders sees no connection between high minimum wages and youth unemployment);
- Enact “equity pay” that will “guarantee” that women are paid the same as men for comparable work;
- Break up banks and financial institutions;
- Enact a Canada-style single-payer healthcare system;
- Provide free tuition for all public colleges and universities;
- Expand Social Security benefits;
- Require businesses to provide 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave, at least 10 days of paid vacation a year, and seven days per year of paid guaranteed sick leave.
Notice that there is nothing in the Sanders platform that calls for “nationalization” of the means of production, nor does he propose to do away with the price system. In other words, Sanders’s vision of socialism is not what Mao or Trotsky or Lenin proposed, yet there is not one thing in the entire platform that would reverse the dangerous economic trends of the past decade.
Instead, Sanders proposes to direct huge amounts of resources in the direction of constructing something akin to a European welfare state. To put it another way, Sanders wishes to “turn back the clock” to create or promote social and economic structures that already have been undermined by the modern “sharing” economy.
If one reads Sanders’s platform from another perspective, it would be the New Deal. Indeed, there is nothing Sanders has written or said from the stump that would not be reminiscent of a New Deal rally (with the possible exception in appealing to black Americans, which was not part of the Democratic Party agenda in the 1930s, as well as Sanders’s appeal to furthering the Sexual Revolution). Bernie Sanders pushes an economic agenda that is frozen in time.
The problem, economically speaking, is that Bernie Sanders proposes nothing that actually would enable entrepreneurs to help bring about a true economic recovery. In Sanders’s world, entrepreneurs are parasites and employers are oppressors who seek to harm their employees, and wealth is defined by how much governments have in their treasuries.
If I could put the economics of Bernie Sanders into a nutshell, it would be this: Burden private enterprise with one directive after another, and then demonize it when it ultimately falls down under the awful weight of taxes, higher costs, and mandates. While many people believe that instituting the Sanders economic agenda would help turn the USA into another Sweden or Denmark, the more likely outcome would be turning this country into another Venezuela.
»
- 41322 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
That's because assholes like you are here!
I am all for lowering bankers and ceo's maximum wage to 100 dollars an hour.
With the death penalty for all crimes more serious than a parking ticket.
Think of it as "the hand of the market" with a knife.
mr. anderson,
"economics" is a fiction. it was dreamed/created to
achieve maximum exploitation of the environment
and the labor of "lesser", honest men, you know the
sort, for the purpose of
aggrandizement and high living of the most violent
and aggressive families on earth, a softer parade
of cannibalism this "economics".
.
it worked for a time and then spun
off to useless and indescribable tangential projection
of biblical proportion meaninglessness.
now, everyone sounds like they are some captain speaking from
a higher moon beam, galactic space station where they see the
end from their perspective of ignorance.
.
just mashin' it up bro.
Actually Bernie isn't radical enough for me. I want a candidate who will hang bankers in the public square not just break up the big banks.
I am more for a Death Race reality TV show where banksters have to use their psychopathic traits in a last man standing event. Advertising dollars would go toward bankster victims.
Economic nationalism?
Yes please.
How'd NAFTA and the h1B program work out for the American middle and working classes, exactly?
Honestly - fuck MISES, simple academic fucks.
Bankers have demonstrated why un-regulated free markets are a utopian fantasy.
We de-regulated banks and trusted bankers and they rigged every market they could.
We removed the 1930s legislation designed to prevent another 1929 and they did it again in 2008.
We can thank the bankers for reminding us of the necessity of legislation and why it was enacted in the first place.
There is lots of financial regulation because bankers are incompetent, unscrupulous and entirely without morals.
What does Capitalism look like without regulation?
1) The appalling conditions in factories in the UK in the 19th Century.
2) Current Apple factories with suicide nets in China
I believe in freedom.
You have the right to rob me, and
I have the right to end you in return.
What you are witnessing is the remnants of capitalism infected with a socialist virus, with the direct intent of destroying it and yielding complete and absolute tyranny of no specific ideology other than absolute power rules absolutely. Read any history and you will see how it is done. Everyone is looking for their ideal "system" that somehow changes the very nature of what it means to be human. People are weak and many will constantly seek shelter from the easiest and most compliant environment. Others will go to the other far extreme and look to the most difficult and distant locations for their security in the belief that few will follow them there to take it. No one is safe and those who seek to empower themselves through the manipulation of fear and sloth will be successful as they always have been, but it all is dependent upon theft, not productivity, and eventually runs out. This is when we see the breakdown occur and those who saw safety in remote and difficult areas are now under threat as the desperate and hungry reach these far out places. This is not something you can regulate. The regulations actually contribute to the breakdown as they become another point of infection of the corruption that ALL central control systems gravitate to. They become self aware and self empowering...like a cancer, except this cancer is in the brain.
Bankers have demonstrated why un-regulated free markets are a utopian fantasy
Bankers have demonstrated why regulated free markets are a utopian fantasy.
FTFY
Nice list of campaign initiatives, Bern. However, you forgot to ask yourself: What happens when business owners say "fuck that!", close their doors, and either retire or renounce their citizenship and take their companies elsewhere?
Socialists never look beyond the tips of their noses. Oh....and he forgot to add Give every citizen a Skittle-shitting unicorn.
I remember a tv interview years back where the reporter was talking to a conservative small business owner in Idaho, I believe it was a machining or metalworking shop.
They were talking about a small minumum wage increase at the time and the business owner said something along the lines of "If these business people are complaining about paying their labor a fair wage they need to stop pretending they are running a real business and go find something productive to do"
Just because you slap a business label on yourself does not mean you are competent.
No politician is 100%! Many of you want perfection, sorry...not going to happen. Even Trump undertsands the tax code favors the wealthy!! We need a new tax code. Anythig less is kicking the can. Sanders is at least on the path towards a more "fair" structure.
Fuck "fair" or "balanced" - what you want is favourable - ie not oppressive. Why do you have to care how well your neighbour is doing? Fuck envy. So long as the common man is not oppressed and prospers what difference does it matter?
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots."
- Victor von Doom
Just B.S.? Try the entire fucking Democrat party; kill the economy, kill babies, and kill cops. Liberalism is a mental disorder.
www.traderzoo.mobi
Well you have to admit that it is Democrats killing their unwanted children.
When you enemy is making a mistake don't interfere.
Well OK. I'm convinced. Democrat/leftist reproduction is something to be desired. You can never have too many thieves in a society.
If Democrats abort their children where will the next generation of thieves come from?
Thanks for the fair and balanced analysis!
While I would agree wholeheartedly that the US economy is in serious trouble, it is not because of the “greed” of billionaires. It is because the US government, through the Federal Reserve System, has created what David Stockman has called the “casino economy” that has substituted trading of sovereign debt and monetary manipulation for a real economy with interest rates that reflect actual economic fundamentals. Like the Bush and Clinton administrations before it, the Obama administration has promoted political entrepreneurship and demonized market entrepreneurship.
Is this guy for fucking real?
Don't get me wrong - gov't/politicians share in the blame, but to act as if corporations, banks and the ultra-wealthy don't have some part in all of this is just fucking as naive as thinking that there is no such thing as welfare fraud or that socialism will lead us to the promised land.
I don't know who's worse - austrian douche-tards like this that find any excuse they can to froth at the mouth about communism, or extreme liberals that think everything is rich people's fault.
On top of his idiotic and destructive plans to "help" Americans, he is 73 right now. He'd be 75 when he took the oath of office, and 79 at the end of his first term. President drool cup.
Additionally, he graduated from univ. with a poli-sci degree, went into activism, then straight into political office.(Sound Familiar?)
He has never worked in the private sector. He fancies himself a philosopher king that can intelligently shuffle finite resources. He would be a DISASTER.
every candidate running for office is a disaster.
Sanders seems to be the least worst to many people - not without reason. Hillary is more of the same, every gop candidate save trump is as well, and trump is an unknown quantity at the end of the day. That he wants to stop the flood of illegals sounds great, but apart from the general opposition he's short on details and where provided he sounds like a goddamned idiot.
Sanders is 100% establishment. The only reason he appears to be different is because his state is so deep blue that he can get away with his open socialist prescriptions and stay on the taxpayer gravy train. There is not one reason to believe that he would do anything but perpetuate the leviathon. He'd just have access to the cash to enrich his buds and the reins of power to punish his enemies, JUST LIKE OBAMA.
Besides he is a proponent of AGW. The largest hoax perpetuated in the history of the planet.
really - the independent, socialist from vermont is 'establishment'
Are you that obtuse for real?
I support Sanders because I want a fast-forward to full socialism, not this half-assed crap we have now. Thanks to Bernie's extreme generosity with the public fisc, the entire population of DC will be roasting rats and pigeons over burning piles of $100 bills. And thanks to his "black lives matter" pandering, gunless liberals will be getting massacred by the diversity they profess to love. What's the downside?
so who are you going to vote for?
Trump because of his strict no fat chicks policy?
Or his absurd let's get Mexico to build a fence to stop the only thing keeping Mexico from collapse?
BY all means lets use our limited water to save our neighbors burning house and let ours burn, especially since they have been flicking matches at us for years.
We gave them fucking NAFTA. We sent them our jobs and yet we still must absorb their remnants....all because they had a socialist revolution that burned their economy to the ground and left it to be ruled over by corrupt politicians of birth who are arm in arm with the only significant industry of their nation...illegal drugs.
Classic bleeding heart liberal without any ability to analyze anything beyond their "feelings".
well you're not very bright.
anyone who disagrees with you must be the other of two choices, huh?
No part of your comment here was coherent. Trump's plan to build a wall paid for by mexico isn't going to happen netiher is deporting 15 million people.
That was my point.
Your tirade indicates someone with a mind far too lazy to take the time to read to understand.
A sanders run GOV will be the embodiment of the one portrayed in Atlas Shrugged.
I will turn sanders back into a chicken peddling Kentucky colonel!
Vote Deez Nuts 2016!
love me some Bernie. #FeelTheBern 2016!
What if Bernie wins and Congress is GOP run? That would be a hoot.
America today is all about SOCIALISM FOR THE 1%. The market economy has been dead for a while. A quick dose of socialism for the working man would not be a bad thing right now for an economy that relies on consumer spending. As for restoring the market, it's probably going to take a near total collapse.
Another positive for Sanders notwithstanding his statism, is as president, he might well veto a lot - that means Congress passing fewer laws with all sorts of crazy riders.
That's a good thing.
People who are convinced they have an absolute right to the property of others, aren’t interested in reason, debate, or compromise, and are willing to use the violence of the State to carry out their will, are only degrees away from resorting to violence on their own. That’s what you saw in Ferguson and Baltimore, and Bernie Sanders means to create armies of these incoherent radicals from coast to coast.
Von Mises: I am smart, so I get everything, you'r not not smart then you are fucket!
If the von Mises Institute wishes to maintain any kind of credibility, it should refrain from writing this amateurish attempt at a political smear. Comparing Sanders to Hitler and Mussolini is ridiculous to the point of silliness. I am confident that ZH readers are aware of this nonsense and reject it. Let's stick to America in 2016 and look objectively at what it needs. Doing so will reveal that Sanders has done a far better job of identifying what needs to be done than any other candidate. What he needs to do is to enlist the support of congressional candidates to ensure that his ideas find practical expression.
Glad that someone else called them on their bullshit too. This is article is pure garbage, meant to incense a reaction.
Reminds me of the saying about a sucker being born every minute.
Doing so will reveal that Sanders has done a far better job of identifying what needs to be done than any other candidate. What he needs to do is to enlist the support of congressional candidates to ensure that his ideas find practical expression.
Of course! Of course! Let's enlist the people causing the problem. That's a great idea.
FUCK YOU! OK? JUST FUCK YOU and your psuedo-intellectual opinion that is shit like you're so called intellect. Sanders is the only thinking candidate in the whole culsterfuck called an election, and you have the fucking nerve to denigrate him.......fuck you cocksucker! TRAITOROUS BITCH!
wow...take it easy Mr Krugman....
Trump Troll Tourette's is everyone's problem.
Sanders wouldn’t appoint former banksters or CEOs. He’d likely look at economists and labor advocates, actual experts in the field they would oversee. Sanders mentioned three good names when Jake Tapper asked him on CNN’s State of the Union: Paul Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, and Robert Reich. Sanders said that each one is doing a “great” or “fantastic” job.
Just LOL...
Krugman is right 0% of the time, Stiglitz 50% of the time (which is not bad for an economist) but the other 50% gives everyone an Aflaac Duck moment, and Reich was an apologist for NAFTA under Clinton so has no credibility.
Sanders needs to stop reading the NY Times, it will rot your brain.
This article is bullshit. Socialism does not involve the 'taking over of all production by the state', that is communism. Socialsim, as practiced in the Nordic countries is about distribution.
"The goal of socialism is communism." -VI Lenin
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/v/vladimirle136421.html
Indeed it does involve the 'taking over of all production by the state' and/OR shades/degrees thereof.
The only difference between socialism (a "PC" construct to soften the sound of communism) and outright communism is that socialism is patient in its transformation into communism.
Yes, socialism is all throughout the blonde states, but if you go to live there, you will experience extreme sticker shock..
That is but one price of communism/socialism.
The other costs you may like even less. May I usher you to go live in the socialist utopia of Venezuela, where they "control the distribution"? You'll see lines close to a mile long and only get a portion of what you need. Such is the destiny of any socialist utopia you think will work. NONE of them will because of TWO universal constant that cannot be changed.
1) There is a finite time limit as to how long you an run on someone elses' money.
2) HUMAN NATURE.
Thats why it is even worse than communism. In communism government is de facto job creator and maintainer of everything so they have a full control. Socialism in "democratic" society is even worse because you cant force businesses to participate, at some point they may say "its enough" and leave. So while socialism really does not take over production, thats exactly why it is even worse.
You can either have a free capitalism that promote innovation at the cost of less social security, or straight communism that will even dictate you what color your clothes should be. Anything between is actually even worse. Example today, after minimum wage hike certain businesses reduced number of working hours - it was just reported here on ZH few days ago. It will get worse dont worry.
As for certain Nordic countries, they are not necessarily that great either. Only reason why they shine today is because US went to such a downhill. Otherwise it would be them taking example from US not vice versa. There is a reason why all those nordic great minds like Linus Torvalds or Bjarne Stroustrup ended up in US and created something great there and not in their country.
Sorry Bernie, Barry beat you to it.
I mean c'mon...those delerious black chicks kicked Bernie off of his own stage. Bernie then immediately upgraded their SNAP cards to get free wireless in their homes.
Bernie Sanders is either stupid or evil. Or both.
Marxism is the religion of psychopathy.
And for those of you saying that we already have socialism for the 0.01%, you're almost correct. We have crony corporatism for the 0.01%, and this is a natural result of Marxist ideals being implemented - anywhere.
The answer is not to go full retard socialist and hand out free shit tickets to everybody, but to take the free shit tickets away from the oligarchy.
The cure for drinking poison is not to fucking drink more of it.
What is it with socialism, it's like food poisoning. No matter what you do it still keeps reoccurring.
You can send donations of toilet paper here, help people in need....
www.asswipeforhugo.com
Tip: Stop worrying about socialism! Better worry why your holy unregulated Capitalism has failed. You shouldn't waste your time worrying about socialism or looking into history books to cite where and how socialism has failed. It's irrelevant. It's YOUR country that is going to ***ts right now, right before your eyes. Right now. Worry about those things and ask yourself what's wrong with this Capitalism instead that it came to this. Ask yourself why 70% of Americans today are poor and why some people need to work three jobs to barely get by. Ask yourself why the cost of living has gone up while wages have stagnated...and how this is supposed to work? Ask yourself how it's possible that families can go bankrupt if someone gets ill...and then worry about socialism and where in history it has failed and why.
the language of those who like the status quo. Why change as its all good today!
hahaha! Scratch the surface and you see the truth.
Libertarian soup.
Demonise the opposition. Period.
Where's the debate? Its all dogma based on prejudice. FDR was a Socialist. Period.
How come you don't like JPM and unlimited capitalistic freedom?
Von Mises go worship Hayek.
If they didn't do that, they'd need to come up with an actual platform instead of harkening back to a time that never really existed or a brave new future dystopia to be determined by mob rule.
Bernie is a dottering old fool who sounds deranged on a daily basis.
We live in a relativistic political universe.
You can say all sorts of bad things about Sanders, and be spot on, but still manage to miss the larger point that he remains a better option than Hillary or Biden, or certainly any of the GOP crowd not named Trump and probably including Trump.
Sanders has had the same left wing commie vision for decades.
Trump is an egoist whose has and likely will change positions for reasons having little to do with what's best for the country.
Of course, in the end, the Deep State has most of the power.
Regardless of who runs for president, each party has its backers and in many cases the true owners of the country will finance both sides of the so-called election.
The base issue is the consolidated power of big corporate and banks in writing and passing policy and the executive which enforces it.
This is the whole picking of winners and losers in the next phase of Amerika's de-evolution.
It is worth reading personal stories of business people far and wide in Europe form the 20's, 30's and 40's.
The march of Fascism and Nazism (Stalin and Mao too) might manifest their history in books, but there is a point where the rubber meets the road, where businesses are choked form capital, legislation is re-written to favor one group over another.
The creation of Russia's Oligarchs was crafted out of Harvard and Wall Street - not the Kremlin and the Comintern.
Dear Bernie, Biden would be President before you.
True is, Sanders is not that different from H. Clinton. Both are socialists, both believe in government wealth redistributions and both have no clue.
What a load of Crap-pola! Go Bernie Go
I'm voting for Bernie. I'm all for corporations and the 1% paying their fair share of taxes. I'm all for incentives to create jobs in America. I'm all for a single payer health option and cutting out the corrupt insurance comapnies altogether. I'm all for pegging the minimum wage to the rate of inflation. I'm all for rebuilding our infrastructure. And, most of all, I'm all for investing in our PEOPLE. None of this sounds unreasonable to me. If you look at this mans record, you will find that he is extremely consistent. I may not agree with him 100% but he has made it clear that "trickle down" economics is a complete fallacy (unless you count the 1% them pissing on you). If we do not set things straight, this country will experience significant social unrest as the middle class continues to waste away and more and more people fall into poverty. Something must be done to restore this country to it's former greatness. The status quo of catering to the 1% and ignoring WE THE PEOPLE simply cannot continue or there will be a revolution as history has shown time and again when extreme wealth inequality occurs. I would rather have it done peacefully as a revolution does not guarantee things will get better... it only guarantees a power vaccume and we could end up with something much worse than we have today.
The 1% would have you believe it's the poorest among us leeching the system to death. Nothing could be farther from the truth. All that money the government created did not go to the poverty stricken. It went to refinance and reward Wall St. banksters. The 1% are destroying and corrupting this country with open bribery. The law doesn't even apply to them. It's not the poor who is our enemy. It is the very powerful few who are destroying this country for their own greed and profit. I would like to see that stopped.
Just like the stimulus bill of 2008 was for infrastructure right? $800+ BILLION and less than 10% went to actual stimulus projects, and a great percentage of those were just wealth transfers to donors. Yeah we need more of that.
You are only validating my point that the 1% has completely corrupted this country for their own personal gain. It starts with limiting all campaign finance to $250 per voter. No special interests, foreign or domestic, can fund any federal election in any way. This must be priority number 1. Only the voters should have a say. When billionaires buy the candidates from both parties before the election ever occurs, what we are left with is a selection.
So far, Bernie refuses special interest donations. He only accepts small donations from the voters. His record is very consistent.
Obama is a hypocrite and has betrayed the American people by rewarding Wall St., closing the doors with TPP, allowing corporate inversions to continue, preventing a single payer system ultimately rewarding the health insurance cartel and driving them to record profits (all while health care costs RISE), and most of all, by allowing indefinite detention of American citizens without charge or trial via NDAA and betraying the constitution via authorizing blanket NSA surveillance of US citizens without probable cause or a warrant. And let us not forget his failure to pardon Edward Snowden who sacrificed all for the American people. When it comes to the two party system, they really aren't all that different. They both cater to the 1%. One of them is up front about that and the other is a party of hypocrites. This is not speculation or conjecture. Just go to www.opensecrets.org and see for yourself. Follow the money.
I don't put Bernie in the same category as the others. He has always been an independent. He has chosen the Democratic party in order to increase his chances and obviously the Republican party would have nothing to do with him.
Way too old. Sorry. Older than Reagan was.
Real Family Values. More free stuff! WOOOOOO!
So far, Bernie refuses special interest donations. He only accepts small donations from the voters.
That is not true. Look at opensecrets. Bernie is a big union guy. He takes tons of money from the workers, er, I mean International Brotherhoods.
The only difference in this Statist shitbag is that he will tell you ahead of time how he will fuck you over....and then carry through with it.
So, in fact, he is "honest" in his approach. An honest shit bag.
I do not need a "leader".
I'm holding my nose and voting for Bernie.
Because overall, right now, he is the least worst.
Trump belongs back on Celebrity Apprentice, far, far from the nuke codes.
I'm holding my nose and voting for Bernie.
That's the wrong orifice.
Just another one of Zion's "Sheeple Census 2016" boogeymen.
LOL
Zion is a scheme, not an ethnicity.
"2016: 'Enabling' the Neocons."
There is no shortage of fools on this thread who think government can be reformed with the right people. That idea has been floating around for centuries. It's about as fruitless as trying to convert a leapord into a vegetarian.
These elections have no more significance than a clown circus. This political system we're stuck with deserves to collapse under the weight of criminal stupidity. I do my best to stay out of their way. And I recommend you do the same. Whoever he or she is, the next president will be a total and complete moron. Guaranteed.
what she said!
+ 1,000
Zion is a scheme, not an ethnicity.
Burning down Main Stream Media corporate broadcasting centers and protecting your heroes from an assassin's bullet is all that is required. First thing an invading army does is take over and control the flow of information. All the dead journalists and presidents have already been provided. They were there to stop this. You did not protect them, Secret Service, CIA, FBI, the rest of the Boy's in Diapers Club who were paid handsomely to do one thing - KEEP OUR LEADER ALIVE, failed. The enemy is not hard to find THEY ARE DUAL CITIZENS and their loyalties lie elsewhere. The courts is a good place to begin.
ISRAEL IS THE ENEMY OF THE AMERICANS and the world. Get the fucking dual citizens out of your government, because there is no other country on earth which would allow such a stupid and reckless maneuver with a nuclear armed state of miserable envous bastards who are record stating their disdain for America. Dismantling the central banks, blowing the cover off the men who wear tuxeodoes for lunch, and seizing their wealth would result and somewhere in that pile of human waste, a coward making a plea would point fingers, name names. NSA has this information but NSA is workign for Israel.
I don't know - it seems like Obama has re-formed the United States into a more racially divided, genderly divided, welfare state. Bernie could change it even more - if he had control of Congress too. But I agree, it will be hard to 'reform' government - as it exists to hand out other people's money.
Ask not for good men to lead the government. There is no such thing. Ask instead for the happy coincidence of having your interests in line with the ruling class, thereby profitting and prospering due to their selfishness.
I'd bet on that kind of a system bringing home the goods any day of the week - good men leading us - not so much. It's the government peoples, not the parties. Everyone in this game is rotten.
"My greatest flaw. I surround myself with idiots."
- Victor von Doom
In the long term its all about demographics. In the short term a Chavez-like moron can destroy everything fast.
One of the many hilarious ironies of B.S. is he whines about the police state and yet ADVOCATES the police state when it comes to people who earn more than average income. Mr. B.S. says NOTHING about the FEDERAL RESERVE scam/monoploy, the printing of "free" money, the misallocation of capital it creates, etc. etc. No, he only whines about wealthy people, not the SYSTEM problems that had lead to economic strife.
Mr. B.S. is a statist, he believe the STATE is the solution, not freedom. He stands for maintining the greatest and most destructive elements to the economic system we have while adding on his own cash-grabbing policies directed at wealthy people. He offers no real solutions, only populist rhetoric that has been disproven in spectacular fashion time and time again.
Lol sanders has a stick up his butt about the Koch Brothers.... probably the least corrupt people of all the corrupt people in corporate America hes a nazi statist... who will do nothing but serve special interests.... the only difference between him and the rest is he has a different set of special interests than them.... different owners from the looks of it....
If he's a politican telling every corporate he'll slap their a$$ silly with taxes for offshoring and hiring H1B from China...you'd have NO idea what a dramatic change for the economy that would result in. The only "freedom" that would be threated would be the insane unlimited freedom for corporates to do *everything* as long as it serves profit, modern slavery basically. And TBH...I can entirely live with if THAT "freedom" is limited. Yes, the big wigs would scream because then they cannot hire Khalim from India any longer and they can't have Shi Zhen making an iPhone for $0.10/hr. Cry me a river. Imagine that our money and jobs would actually stay IN the country...
Mr. B.S. is a Statist. In no way does he support real individual freedom. His "solutions" all come from government mandates and "class warfare" rhetoric.
Exactly, its easy to blame the rich.
Its not easy to get up infront of an electorate and tell them the only reason they are poor is because they are lazy to fight for meaningful change.
If you tell people its their fault... they will not vote for you.
If you tell people they are victims and that they should vote for you so you can save them from the boogie man... its an easy win because people are that stupid . . . at which point when they are elected.... they go to the boogie man and collect bribes to keep the angry mobs off them and maintain the statusquo.
As always... thats what politics are all about.... vote for your favorite wrestler... he will spew the bs you want to hear for one or two terms while changing nothing and pocketing money along the way... till he leaves and some other lottery winner gets his/her chance.
Obama has been in there the better part of a decade already, and the only thing he has changed is the name of Mount McKinley ^^...
There is actually nothing wrong with government mandates, even if the thought alone seems to be the ultimate nightmare for many Americans :) There is nothing wrong about laws and regulations THAT MAKE SENSE and which limit some some of the atrocities going on currently, speaking of off-shoring, importing H1B, 3rld world manufacturing etc. Such regulations in place (taxes etc.) are better than letting the entire country bleed out FOR the profit of 0.1%. There is only one demographics who is afraid of such regulations: Yes, those exact 0.1%. Because they're afraid they cannot have Indians or Chinese working for them for pennies any longer. But, hint: America is more than the 0.1%. America is 300M people, and 299.9M people would benefit from jobs and and economy going on IN the USA, rather than in Shenzen, China. A Kindergartner should be able to understand that.
I guess that you think Trump's emotional voter-catching nonsense and preventing "Mexican rapists" coming to the country by building a wall is a solution for America's problems... Much luck with that. You will likely need it for the next 4 or 8 years even. As I said elsewhere, it will probably require 70% of Americans literally eating garbage off the streets until some of you realize that the current system is defunct.
"Americans are not jobless because some people are not paying “their fair share” of taxes; they are jobless because the US government insists on directing resources from higher-valued uses to lower-valued uses, as determined by consumer choice."
Utter nonsense
I agree. They're jobless because your car is made in Mexico, your clothes made in Sri Lanka and your iphone in China, rather than here. It's really very simple. Look at Detroit. Prime example and doesn't require rocket science.
Impossible to keep a trade deficit forever without a global reserve currency,
Insignificant countries like Venezuela cannot have a trade deficit. If they dont earn money through exports, they starve. And now they are communists they have banned both exports (except oil) and imports. Like in Gaza, only voluntarily.
Sanders is another Obama.
You want change and success?
Exempt the bottom 90% from all taxes for 10 years, the parasite govt/corporate economy would die and home-brew economies would flourish... spreading wealth and jobs all over.
Taxation and Govt interference + central banking are the only things destroying the economy, there are no other anchors attached to the economy.... the labor force is there unemployed ready to build whatever economic demand calls for.... the food is there, the energy ... there, the empty homes for people to live in... there.... the businesses to hire everyone???? they would be there if
-They weren't burdened by high health care costs govt created
-They weren't burdened by high taxes govt demands be paid
-They weren't burdened by a low savings rate and high debt load central banks promote and force them into
-They weren't being crushed competitively by corrupt laws govts create to boost profits of special interests
Thats the truth.
If the banks failed in 2008, FDIC did what it was made for.... the debt bubble would of imploded, debts would of been extinguished and growth would of resumed.... but govt stepped in, saved the debt over-lords from the consequences of their own wrong-doing, and empowered them.
The banks are slave lords..... nothing more nothing less... the govt sided with the slave masters instead of with the people they were elected to protect and serve ... all for maintaining a system no one believes in..... but the most evil people the world has ever seen.
The ONLY way that the minority of Americans who have intelligence & morality, who value individual liberty & freedom vs coercive collectivism, and who cherish the RIGHT to keep ALL of what what they earn and own vs being allotted only a fraction of it by overlords,
is for Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton to get into the White House and the socialists to once again control Congress, and ramp up even more entitlement programs and earnings redistribution,
because ONLY then will that minority of Americans get enough anger and balls to go to WADC and take back control of their lives and government by force of arms -
it is IMPOSSIBLE through the ballot box because the parasites vastly outnumber the producers.
Capitalism rewards the winners but it also punishes the losers. If you want the right to keep what you earn, then it is only moral that you also must give up what you lose. Not get billions in tax loopholes, bailouts, and favorable legislation from your crony politicians. As long as those at the top are getting redistribution, people at the bottom will want it too.
This is NOT that a 0.1% can keep what they earn vs. "entitlement" and being "allotted".
Ths issue is that the 0.1% make profit on the backs of 99,9% since THIS system obviously only works when a few take advantage of many. This system RELIES on that some dumbo works 8hrs for low wage so that an individual or an entity (corporate etc.) makes profit. You are hired BECAUSE you make someone profit which shall greatly outweigh they cost of your work.
It's justified that I question the right of someone "to keep what they earn" when this is only achieved by starving and suffering someone/multiple others. The prime example here people working retail, in manufacturing or wherever where their hourly wage does NOT even satisfy paying for the necessities (roof over your head, doctors etc.)...while they're literally working your a$$ off so that a corporate can make billions and the CEO getting his third Ferrari?
Good example here the current debate about min. wage. Go and increase min. wage, say in Fast Food or for restaurant workers. What happens is that WITHOUT QUESTION you will be ending up having to pay more for your burger or your dish since (in America) no corporate would sacrifice their profits (when they would have to inc. min wage)....but than rather increase prices for their goods to make up for this "loss". The irony here is that VERY WELL McD or whatever could say they accept, say, 20% less profit..but then paying their employees a fair wage. Of course this won't ever happen since in this culture, the profit of McD has a higher priority than anything else. THIS is the problem here. A few corporate entities and CEOs and their profit are more important than 300M Americans? Give me a break. This is a system destined to fail and we can see this fail going on for decades already. Give it 20 more years and ALL American cities will be "Detroits"....because the country is being bled out by corporates and their greed.
And...whether you like it or not...only a certain "pinch of socialism" can end this! Anything else is agreeing that it's ok that 0,1% starve the rest, that it's ok that a corporate moves all jobs to China, etc..etc.. What is more important to you? The wellbeing of everyone - or the wellbeing of those few Elites who are ALREADY wealthy? What do you think is the problem of America currently? Do you think the current problems affect anyone of the 0,1%? They don't. All the problems, immigration, unemployment, social security etc. affect the vast majority of people, many of them poor.
Unfortunately, I have never heard a capitalist make a mature and intelligent comment on socialism.
If we are to defeat socialism, we must take it seriously, and not make moronic claims like idiot Fukuyama saying its the end of history because democratic capitalism has won.
Not that simple.
We need to do better than saying socialism means "Hate the man who is better off than you are. Never under any circumstances admit that his success may be due to his own efforts..."
Give intelligent reasons not childish hyperbole to dislike socialism. And lets learn some history. Please!!
Big industrialists loved the fascists because they attacked socialists, communists and anarchists. Industrialists funded Hitler and Muss.
The DuPonts, Ford, Brown Bros, IBM supported the Nazis. Industrialist Thyssen welcomed the suppression of the communists, social Democrats and trade unions. IG Farben was in close partnership with the Nazis.
American industrialists sent out a man named Gerry Mcguire to Europe to study various right-wing groups, which might serve as a model for an American version. It would then be led by a General (they chose the most popular marine in history Smedley Butler). This was all confirmed in congressional testimony.
It's the billioniares who will make common cause with right-wing bigots. Fisrt they will go after blacks, muslims, gays and liberals, then they will go after everybody else. Billionaires are willing to risk a savage dictatorship in order to maintain the status quo.
Until capitalists are serious about learning history and talking intelligently about socialism it will always be a threat.
Are we capitalists so stupid, we don't know that wall street and corporations and billionaires own government. Have you not heard of the revolving door between business, academia and government. Socialists and liberals can and do make hay out of this. That's part of the reason they are so effective.
If you hate government, you hate big business. Liberals see this pretty easy, and it undermines capitalists claims.
Please respond with FACTS.
Wobblie: I agree with your points for the most part. I suppose with entrenched monopolies and governments it's sort of the chicken or the egg question. The monopolies would not be where they are without the monopoly of violence of the government. One thing I like to tell people is, "I will know I live in a free market system when I can go to the end of my driveway and sell whatever I please."
Oh, it's going to be a FUN election. We have Sanders in one corner who will burden the economy to smithereens, and Trump in the other, who makes people lovingly recall Hitler.
Oh, what a fun election it is going to be!
I'm amazed by how many dumb fucks in this country can't properly define socialism. Not that I ultimately agree with it--but it helps to at least get it right.
A poly sci major who has never had a job in his life is probably the LAST person I'd go to for expertise on economics... Or anything, for that matter.
There is *nothing* wrong with 'socialism' modeled after Scandinavian countries such as Norway or Sweden, heck you could even call countries such as Germany 'socialist', if you will. (My US American and very conservative inlaws do). Not that I, as an European, feel in any way as living in a 'socialist' society where I would be limited in any way. (And yes this includes building my own personal wealth, say by being an entrepreneur).
Saying that employers are 'oppressors' would insofar be justified if we see how (some) employers go through lengths to employ people at the lowest wage, with minimum off/sick times, no health insurance etc. You live in a society where employers, the 0.1% have more liberties than the rest of folks, Bernie is the one actually spelling it out because no, such a system can not be sustained.
Sanders is also the only candidate I have seen so far not only adressing the most pressing problems (such as off-shoring, 3rld world manufacturing etc.) and actually proposing changes which COULD, if implemented, recover America. Obviously if you're "against" those things you think it's ok to give corporates the freedom to offshore aka "move jobs out of the country". You don't see this being a problem? Do you think corporates would voluntarely stop off-shoring and manufacturing your car, clothes and iPods in China or Pakistan? Of course they won't! This is why there *need* to be regulations, whether you call this 'socialism' or not. And there is nothing wrong with this. Jobs need to be in THIS country, and not jobs (and money) moved abroad.
As someone observing the state of the US right now I think it's hideous that many people obviously don't see where the actual problems are and instead believe in distracting nonsense like that spread by Trump who wants to make people believe the main problem is ra.pists coming in from Mexico and similar nonsense while corporates just down the street outsource their entire manufacturing to Swasiland or India.
The question here however is whether America is 'ready' for this urgently needed 'socialism'. Maybe it needs even more poor, a point where, say, 70% of Americans are not just needing to work three jobs but literally living off garbage off the streets until they realize that the current system does *indeed* not work. I have no doubt that this point in time *will* come looking at the other 'candidates' you have there who are merely interested in keeping up the current Status Quo, and yes this includes Trump.
The world is essentially darwinian down to the quarks and will always be. If your side is backed by a strong army it could enforce its will in the long term, be it socialism or else. Other than that, any talk of what is intrinsically "good or bad" raises the question: Good or bad for what or whom?