This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Russian Plane "Broke Apart In The Air," Officials Say As Investigators Frantically Search For "Clues"
Just when it seemed as though the conflict in Syria and the attendant ISIS saga couldn’t possibly get any more surreal, on Saturday a Russian passenger jet fell out of the sky over the Sinai Peninsula. Subsequently, ISIS claimed responsibility and released a video clip that purportedly depicts the mid-air explosion that brought the plane down.
All 224 people on board were killed including 17 children. It was the worst “accident” in the history of Russian aviation. Bodies are reportedly scattered as far as 8 kilometers from the crash site. "We found a three-year-old girl eight kilometres from the scene" of the main wreckage, one official told AFP. The picture shown below, which depicts Darina, a 10-month old girl killed in the crash staring at planes before flying to Egypt, has gone viral.
Now, as Russia mourns, authorities are scrambling to determine exactly what happened and more than a few observers contend that ISIS couldn’t possibly have shot the plane down given the altitude. Nevertheless, some international airlines have diverted traffic over the region which has been the site of clashes between the Egyptian government and militants.
Adding to the mystery, the plane’s co-pilot allegedly voiced concerns about the condition of the aircraft prior to the flight and while officials insist that it would be extraordinarily difficult for a terrorist group to hit a plane flying at 31,000 feet, Prime Minister Sherif Ismail says there’s “no evidence that anything unusual was happening on the plane before it crashed.”
Here’s more from Bloomberg:
Prime Minister Sherif Ismail said in a televised news conference on Saturday that it would be premature to speculate on the cause of the crash before the data on recorders were analyzed.
Conflicting reports have emerged about whether the pilot, who was flying at an altitude of 31,000 feet, indicated a technical problem. While Civil Aviation Minister Hossam Kamal said the pilot hadn’t radioed an SOS call, the Dubai-based Al-Arabiya satellite channel reported he had sought permission to land at a nearby airport.
“It is technically difficult to target a plane at that level,” Ismail said. “We have no evidence that anything unusual was happening on the plane before it crashed.”
Islamic State’s statement doesn’t specify how the plane was downed and the local affiliate may have jumped the gun to take credit, Mokhtar Awad, an analyst at the Center for American Progress, a research institute in Washington, said by e-mail. Russian Transportation Minister Maxim Sokolov said on state television that reports of a terrorist missile aren’t credible.
Former Israeli national security adviser Yaakov Amidror, an army reserves general, concurred that it was unlikely an Islamist group shot down the aircraft. But “other scenarios also have to be considered, especially the possibility that the plane was sabotaged at the airport before taking off,” Amidror said.
Preliminary investigations indicate the plane went down due to a technical problem, the state-run Ahram Gate website said, citing Egyptian security officials. The plane had reached cruising altitude before crashing in the remote
Al Hassana area of central Sinai, about 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of Al-Arish. Egyptian security forces have been waging a fierce campaign in the area against militants who have pledged allegiance to Islamic State.
Other experts claim that the plane's movements just prior to the crash seem to rule out a terrorist attack.
In its final seconds Saturday, the Metrojet plane was bucking wildly, abruptly climbing and descending before communication was lost, according to FlightRadar24.com, which tracks flight routes. At times it dropped as fast as 6,000 feet per minute, only to reverse and climb even faster, repeating that pattern several times. At other times, it slowed dangerously. About 24 seconds before losing contact, it dropped to 71 miles per hour from 470 miles, according to the data. Jetliners such as the Airbus 321 can’t stay aloft at such a speed.
If the FlightRadar24 data are correct, “it probably rules out sabotage,” said Paul Hayes, director of air safety and insurance at Ascend Worldwide. “It’s probably some sort of control problem.”
As a refresher, here's a look at the flight path and data:
RT @flightradar24: Looping playback of #7K9268. Last data recorded at 04:13:22 UTC https://t.co/YGvJ7T0VMG pic.twitter.com/vkMDw93yzX
— Eric Lewis (@SubEWL) October 31, 2015
The aircraft was descending rapidly at about 6,000 (2,000 meters) feet per minute before the signal was lost to air traffic control.
Speed / Alt plotted on graph. Speed (purple) drops off before we lost contact at 04:13:10z #7K9268 pic.twitter.com/yhJSZ1Dclw
— Plane Finder (@planefinder) October 31, 2015
Raw data shows plane EI-ETJ had entered a steep descent. #7K9268 Download here https://t.co/Un19KvW1re pic.twitter.com/hlQ4X9URVL
— Plane Finder (@planefinder) October 31, 2015
And here's a bit more color from Sputnik:
Experts from Egypt, Russia, and France have started analyzing the flight data recorders of the Russian airliner which crashed Saturday in Egypt killing 224, Egyptian media report.
The airliner's flight recorders were discovered on Saturday night. The Russian transportation minister said they had no significant damages.
"There is minor technical damage. But there was no thermal impact as the Egyptian representatives say," Maksim Sokolov said.
A Kogalymavia/Metrojet Airbus A321 en route to St. Petersburg from the resort city of Sharm El-Sheikh with 217 passengers and seven crew on board, crashed in the Sinai Peninsula, leaving no survivors. The Sinai air crash became the deadliest air accident in the history of Russian aviation, surpassing the 1985 disaster in Uzbekistan, where 200 people died.
And so, even as the "experts" claim that i) ISIS couldn't have shot the plane down, and ii) that the data seem to "rule out" sabotage, one can't help but note that Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was brought down by a missile over Ukraine and furthermore, it's not clear why "some sort of control problem" isn't compatible with someone either hitting the aircraft with a projectile or else detonating an explosive on board. That is, when planes explode in mid-flight, it tends to lead to "control problems." Indeed, Russian officials have confirmed that the plane "broke apart in the air":
#BREAKING Russian plane 'broke apart in the air': Russian aviation official
— Agence France-Presse (@AFP) November 1, 2015
"It is too early to draw conclusions," MAK executive director Viktor Sorochenko says. "Disintegration of the fuselage took place in the air, and the fragments are scattered around a large area [about 20 square kilometers]", the official added.
Yes, it "broke apart", which would appear to suggest that it in fact exploded. And so even as it will probably never be possible to definitively say whether or not the video released on Saturday is real or fake, we would note once again that if the footage is authentic, someone on the ground knew exactly when to start filming.
#????
????? #??????_????????? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? #???????_??????? ?? #????? pic.twitter.com/wxE4KRanht
— ???? (@iq2015_bgd) October 31, 2015
In any event, we'll await the "official" word, although reports indicate that it could take weeks, or even months to determine exactly what happened here. That said, if there's even a shred of credible evidence to corroborate the video shown above, don't expect The Kremlin to wait around on the full report as IS in Sinai may soon find themselves shooting at other Russian jets in the skies above Egypt - only these jets will be shooting back.
»
- 89886 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
I say YES....and this is getting real confusing. So we are sending troops into Syria that is being bombed by Russia? How will that go? Russia/Putin played this like a true master....(Tell me if I have this straight..?)
Russia/Putin opens up dialogue to Obama/US and says "We need to destroy ISIS, and you are already attacking ISIS...right?"
Obama/US "Yes...we are using everything we have to keep the war on terror away from our country.."
Russia/Putin "We agreee, we will help you destroy this terror threat.." (Knowing that the USA created this boogieman to keep endless wars going or distract the US public)
Obama/US "Ahhhhhhhhhhh....OK..." (Obama/US publicly can't say that ISIS or whatever is our BS ground war....so they can't saya thing..)
Russia/Putin then shows the US how to REALLY win a war if you are going in...Bombing the FUCK out of this shit hole....If you haven't watched this video...click on it...go full screen and volume up. This is how you Fuck up ISIS/US/OBAMA..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlJKiInKh6Y
.
This one...about 1 minute in...Putin shows again how to do it....NOTE:the shit landscape...and watch REAL fire power at work...against ISIS/US
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDdFFKTCYQ
.
So now that Obama/US have been called out....and Russia has done what we were "Supposed" to do.... (Which was all a lie) The US will send in 50 troops...HAHAHAHAHHAA Are you fucking kidding me? This has Flase Flag drag us in further written all over it.
.
Vlad.....well played my friend.
dlete
I wonder whether Putin will tell the Pentagon: "You best tell us where your embeded special ops guys are or we'll just hit everything.'
Pentagon "But but but then you'll know where all the moderate rebels are lurking. And all their lethal weapons."
Putin: "Take it or leave it."
Hello, US Soldier! Your Leaders are sending you on a Suicide Mission. May as well strap on a bomb vest and blow yourselves up.You are viciously being sacrificed by evil men under the control of International Zionism, which infests your running dog neo-imperialist government.
Go to a dictionary and look up a term we had in 'Nam: Fragging.
Did any of you read your Oath about "Domestic Enemies?"
If it was ISIS terrorism, this Russian operated civilian aircraft was chosen. If Putin was not in Syria, no planes go boom. See how easy it is to make connections. No Russian military killing Muslim faithful in Middle East - no Russian airliners losing planes to bombs.
IS doesn't have the means to shoot down a plane flying at 9000 metres. The only entity in the region with the means and opportunity to shoot down the plane is Israel. The motive of course is unclear, but not important. Israel routinely bombs other countries in the region without even a whisper of international condemnation. Perhaps it mistook the plane for a Syrian military plane.
That also explains why they are being so cautious in blaming anyone. Wait for them to slowly eliminate every other possibility before they reveal the incontrovertible evidence to prove that it was indeed Israel that shot it down. This will be the equivalent for Israel of what the invasion of Kuwait was for Iraq. It is only a matter of time before the UN imposes sanctions against Israel.
Everything's America's fault, isn't it? :-)
From change in altitude it looks like a control surface malfunction, could be a wing itself, an aileron, flap, spoiler, elevator, you name it. On top of that it could be a computer problem, fly-by-wire problem and so on. Need more data.
Curious if Russia aircraft have smae cockpit security that is seen in other countries? Could someone have entered the cockpit and a struggle ensued?
Back in the bad old days of Soviet Russia, not only were there armored cockpit doors, but both the cockpit and cabin crews had firearms and on occasion shot hijackers, in addition the pilots were trained to do a rendition of the vomit comet in case of serious disturbances in the cabin. I don't know the current specifics, but in order to fly internationally they have meet the current international specifications (which includes reinforced cockpit doors).
Unlike US pilots, I am confident Russkie pilots have pistols, knives, swords, brass knuckles and other assorted mayhem-producing gear in the cockpit.
A Russian plane says it all....they are not the best
Dude - it's an Airbus - the EU company that doesn't have Lithium battery explosions on its newest planes, and who just stomped Boeing on a big Chinese plane purchase - though Obama playing with a destroyer in his bathtub might have helped Airbus!
No, Airbus does not have problems with exploding batteries, which still allow the pilot to make an emergency landing.
Instead Airbus has a philosophy of the computer being the final decision maker.
In case of a problem with sensors or the computer itself all the pilot can do is sit there and scream,
I will fly a Boeing over Airbus anytime and actually do avoid Airbus planes unless it is really impossible,
they found the black box/f.r. in hours.
so where's the one from the Ukraine crash? Or the ATC tapes?
Or statements from ATC personnel?
How about All 4 Black Boxes from 9/11 Oh...those hit too hard..right? BUt they found a fully intact Passport on the ground after a plane hit....HAHAHAHAHA...Really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-QycTzwV7c
https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrTcX9bNjZW5fsAaZsunIl...
firefighter friend who has some firefighter friends in nyc said a couple of 'em SAW black boxes.
but of course that is hearsay, it'd have been inconvenient for 737 data to have been revealed.
Hahahahha, al-mossad went a lttle too far with that gag.
John Lear – Retired commercial airline pilot with over 19,000+ total hours flown in over 100 different types of planes for 10 different airlines in 60 different countries around the world. Flew for over 40 years. Holds every certificate ever offered by the FAA and has 23 different FAA type ratings. Held 17 world records including speed around the world in a Lear Jet Model 24, set in 1966. He was presented with the PATCO award for outstanding airmanship in 1968, and the Symons Wave memorial. Flight experience includes Boeing 707 and 727, McDonnell Douglas DC-8, Lockheed L-1011 and many others. Son of Bill Lear, founder of Lear Jet Corp:
Audio interview with Rob Balsamo 3/9/07: Regarding the Flight Data Recorder information for Flight 77, which allegedly hit the Pentagon, released by the NTSB,
John Lear: There's a lot things in that tape that came up, that if you're a pilot, you say, "Hey, wait a minute. That's bull****. That could never happen in a million years." ...
MH17 Black boxes were handed over to investigtors within days after the crash. ATC tapes and personnel is another story, I guess Ukrainan SBU knows exactly where they are.
I stand corrected. The black boxes were indeed recovered.
thanks!
And immediately handed over to the unimpeachably honest English technicians, never to be seen again.
The ATC tapes haven taken a little longer than expected to counterfeit. Queenie is ever so sorry.
also a good point. as you very often provide, mr. bid.
"Never let a good crisis go to waste"
some washington fucktard
Brought down or not , IsIs will become waswas for claiming it. Rooskies don't fook around
Agreed. That was the biggest and probably last ISIS/WASWAS mistake. Just for piling on they will be vaporized from the air and hunted down on land.
Yep.
Russia now has the the incentive, after church today, to let 10,000 missiles fly at ISIS, al Noostra, and, of course, the ever-so-moderate rebels.
Sabotage from the airport, very likely...by a "Western" asset.
It'd be ironic if a shiity plane started WWIII.
".....although the man in the surveillance video from the Egyptian airport resembles Bath House Barry, sources insist he was at the golf course at Andrews AFB at the time the aircraft exploded."
"Thanks, Wolf. In other news, Russian fighters bombed another 23 hospitals in Syria today. Back with more "news" after these messages..."
i'm curious if there was anyone on that flight that needed to be nailgunned
It's virtually impossible for a fully-laden jet airliner to "drop as fast as 6,000 feet per minute, only to reverse and climb even faster, repeating that pattern several times", what the data shows is it was operating outside of its normal parameters and there was a communication breakdown between the AC and the ground.
It definitely broke up, mid-air, due to explosive decompression but the reason is unclear (apart from a missile - there's no way anyone could get the required hardware into the demilitarised zone in that area).
Either it was a bomb onboard or bad maintenance.
There is an alternative with historical precedent of a Russian Airbus airliner entering rapid descent and reversing into a stall before crashing.
Fucking Airbus and their computer is the ultimate decision maker flight control philosophy.
I'm pretty sure most of us here , said something like this would happen this week..... And amazingly . It did.
I'm pretty sure that the madness of crowds operates with equal validity here as it does anyplace else. Particularly when their emotions are played upon by relentless trollery.
Thank god my nonconformist uniform is at the cleaners.
Saudi planted the bomb, but it was meant to go off over Turkey... one theory... thus damage Egypt tourism, scare Russians, hurt Russia's relations with Turkey... draw Russia in more.
OR more likely - Mossad planted the bomb to make it look like Saudi did it to draw Russia into a war.
Bomb materials could be Made in USA, or have some Saudi planted evidence
One must think like an evil satanist to keep up with zios to track their steps.
Sabotage need not involve a bomb, though.
If I'm Russia, I assume accident and try to rule it out.
However, a second accident I assume is the US and or Israel and I send my own message.
An unmistakable one.
let's hope it doesn't come to that and that this was indeed a tragic accident - but the timing and location are obviously suspicious.
See? Mossad.
That didn't take long.
who else...
Who else? I can think of many much more likely scenarios than your persistent and eager Blame Israel First For Everything worldview.
First off, it's a bunch of Russian mechanics working on an Airbus. Where are they getting the parts to maintain it? And they're RUSSIAN MECHANICS.
Okay, scenario 2. It's an Airbus, not some broken-down Tupolev that people refuse to fly in. But Airbus means modern computer-controlled avionics. So hacking of the controls is a possibility that would explain the bizarre dive-climb-dive thing. Haven't we recently seen white hat hackers demonstrate this vulnerability?
Scenario # 3. It's Egypt- filled with frustrated Islamists at all levels of government and society. It only takes one guy to turn his head while Achmed walks through Customs.
Scenario # 4. Cui Bono? There are only two real candidates for people who profit from this The first ones are obviously the anti-Assadists and the second ones are the Russian and/or Syrian governments. It could also be a fucked-up Airbus or fucked up Russian maintenance. Personally, I am reserving judgment on all possibilities until we see what the Russian reaction truly is. At the moment, they are playing the "we know nothing but what a terrible tragedy and here's some heart-rending pictures for you to view" card. Once they release a cause for the loss, we'll know more about where this is going.
You are very quick to claim that the US and Israeli governments are capable of such an act, and not surprisingly silent on the possibility that the Russian or Syrian regime is equally capable of such a cynical use of innocent lives to attain their geopolitical ends. But aircraft failure or maintenance errors are not completely discountable. It's an Airbus flying in desert conditions maintained by Russians who are embargoed on ordering replacements parts (so far as I know).
But you go ahead and stir the pot since it makes you feel happy on a Sunday morning.
funny - russian mechanics do a decent job on naval vessels, advanced jet fighter, cruise missiles, and the rockets the US space program relies on.
But I'm sure you're right, and as you always, without fail, argue - it can not possibly be Israel.
They'd never do such a thing, right?
it is exceedingly difficult to take such a tireless, unremitting apologist for all things Israel at all seriously.
But an apologist for all things Russian is a horse of a different color entirely.
Oh, and why are these particular Russian mechanics not working on Russian-built passenger jets? Surely with all the vast advantages conferred by their weakened currency, it would be far cheaper to buy and fly Tupolevs.
PS-- I did not say that it "can not possibly be Israel", only that it was much more likely to be other candidates and that Russia and Syria is just as likely to be capable of such an act as Israel and the US government.
Let me hear you say it: Russia and Syria are also capable of such outrages. Prove that you are a fair minded free agent and not some captured operator taking orders that you dare not deviate from.
Russia and Syria are absolutely capable of such outrages.
but here - the US/Israel are more likely [if indeed malfeasance occurred] than either.
And, in turn, I will say that the US and Israeli governments are also capable of such outrages.
But I don't know what happened over there and am thus not wasting my time worrying about it. Once the "official" reports come out and the official talking points get going, we'll know more about what is going on. But it will still be just a guess.
The whole tent is going to come down one way or the other and I don't worry that much about fixing responsibility for who cut the first guy line. It is a universal madness and people need to look to their own lifeboats and stop worrying about lawyeristic fixations of responsbility.
Survive the avalanche. Don't worry about who triggered it because ultimately everyone did it in concert. Best of luck to you.
You're alright by me - fair enough, and same to you and yours.
I would not pick on Tupolev planes too much, Their big problem is that they are old and maintenance might not have been the best.
However compare the same age Tupolev to an Being and I the Txx is the more stought of the two.
I also doubt that replacement parts for civilian airplanes are under sanctions. They could be and if that is the case and this jet crashed because the airline had to use 3rd source parts for repair / maintenance due to the EU sanctions this will cause a major PR blowback and you can bet that the Russian government will use it to maximum advantage.
israel has such a reputation. arming, training, creating Muslim terror organizations, Abu Nidals and Palestinian "terrorists" who are owned by Mossad. when Islamic terrorism seems to just happen to benefit them it isn't such a surprise people jump to them 1st
Don't ya just hate that? People predicting future actions based on past behavior? It's racist and antisemitic I tells ya
Russian mechanics adhere to service manuals issued by both Airbus and Boeing. Smaller companies outsource maintenance tasks to larger Russian airlines who have their own mainentance crews or to companies outside Russia who provide such services on a contract basis. Spare parts are provided by certified suppliers. "Russian mechanics" is just prejudice and has nothing to do with reality when it comes to aircraft maintenance.
Personal blog of a Russian aircraft mechanic (in Russian, with pics): lx-photos.livejournal.com
Logic of this crowd:
My milk went bad overnight - Mossad.
I stubbed my toe on my desk in the middle of the night - Mossad agent broke in and moved it.
My Coke changed to Pepsi - Mossad.
Neighbor's dog barked all night long and disturbed my Neo Nazi website browsing - Mossad.
Internet went out in mom's basement - Mossad.
The David Duke/Protocoler/Rus troll sewer that is the ZH comment thread is full of unimaginative dullards.
Amen to that.
I wonder how the Russian people feel about their money being spent on propaganda that only persuades the dregs of American society? Oh wait, it doesn't matter. The only person in Russia who gets a vote is Vlad-o.
are you fellas all in the same room? how about a selfie?
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/10/us-stopped-syria-air-strikes-while-...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/10/us-invasion-of-syria-begins.ht...
http://www.thesleuthjournal.com/syria-another-zionist-war-for-suckers-vi...
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/04/us-israel-wage-war-on-iran-in-...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/12/us-caught-faking-it-in-syria/
It appears as though the langely trolls are experiencing a very bizarre form of insanity. Given their close relations with known ziopedophiles, it is clearly being caused by syphilis. There is no explanations better than this. It should be nuked from space and cleansed with fire, lest the ziopedophiles infect our precious chirren with syphillis. Do it for the chillren.....clease langley from the clutches of this horrible disease before they do further damage to this countries credibility.
I didn't know Syphilis could be spread via the digestive tract.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=baby+dies+of+herpes+after+circumci...
I have noticed in my absence the comments here now make me feel that I am on infowars lol. Still it is a free fire zone. Free speech and all that. I got banned from dailykos by mentioning The Plagiarizer and his Butt Buddy he was so proud of that he gave him a shout out would make a fine president and vice president candidate.
Interesting that Tyler bans guys like TruthInSunshine yet lets the Latvian Potato guy run wild trolling here on ZH.
Pretty fucking ridiculous, as most here are Americans, Canadians and Western Europeans, not Russians.
seems like its pretty hard to get banned, given the various racial epithets and the like tossed about too and fro.
Europe doesn't really have "free speech" and its getting worse
French Supreme Court Makes Free Speech Illegal If It Concerns Israel
http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2015/10/french-supreme-court-makes-free-speec...
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/02/france_and_the_bds_movem...
I presume ZH has to worry about the more restrictive laws in Europe as well. And Europe is rapidly becoming an Orwellian dystopia - for more than a few reasons.
*****
http://celticanglopress.tumblr.com/post/47433261983/the-coudenhove-kaler...
That topic has been discussed some time ago. Apparently Zero Hedge is hosted on servers in Europe (Switzerland if I remember correctly) and have to worry about their laws,
Commander Ralph Kolstad, U.S. Navy (ret) – Retired commercial airline captain with 27 years experience. Aircraft flown: Boeing 727, 757 and 767, McDonnell Douglas MD-80, and Fokker F-100. Retired fighter pilot. Former Air Combat Instructor, U.S. Navy Fighter Weapons School (Topgun). 20-year Navy career. Aircraft flown: McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk, and Grumman F-14 Tomcat. 23,000+ total hours flown:
"At the Pentagon, the pilot of the Boeing 757 did quite a feat of flying. I have 6,000 hours of flight time in Boeing 757’s and 767’s and could not have flown it the way the flight path was described."
Then why are you here? Oh yeah, everyone needs a job. But this is a terrible job for you, man. Do something else already.
It's not easy making Pepsi. First you have to find an abortionist.
Welcome to Occam's new and improved razor.
Mossad- the boogeyman every Muslim mother and father tell their children will get them if they fail while doing Jihad.
The Boogie Mossad.
Oh, you think like an evil satanist, all right. The devil doesn't care who you hate, just that you hate somebody without letup. That opens the door for him to whisper in your ear.
A muslim somewhere had something to do with this. If SA is involved so is Islam. Why did you not mention the faith of the terrorist but the faith of others?
Has all the hallmarks of a bomb on board.
Agree. We think of bombs blowing apart the plane, or zapping an engine, but it only takes a small bomb to knock out the controls. And it's hard to imagine that ISIS does not have some recruits that work as employees in Egyptian airports - which makes you wonder where all those military aged single Muslim refugee men flooding the EU and the U.S. will end up working!
If they do this right, they can re-assemble the parts of the airliner in a hangar. It will take a while, but it would reveal the truth, also considering explosive residue would be discovered.
Maybe it was oxygen generators, or lithium batteries, or....
It could well be a CIA bomb. After all, they claim "the right to kill", don't they? And they have not the slightest compunction about killing foreigners.
http://barlowscayman.blogspot.com/2015/10/the-right-to-kill.html
It's not too far a stretch to go from bombing a wedding party or a hospital to get a few terrorists to bombing a commercial airliner for same.
How many pictures have we seen of the Russian military killing ISIS? You do realize that ISIS and Sunni be one and the same? Syria and Shia and Putin just caught a an act of Sunni terrorism. But Putin has clean hands.
SAA is all Shia, Sunni and other fighting what ever the terrorist invaders
are called this week...
Shia vs Sunni is way oversimple
but you are a simple sort...
"Shia vs Sunni is way oversimple"
Red Team, Blue Team. Same thing.
Intelligent Muslims get that.
I'm sure the Russians are pretty sure this was no accident. However, I don't blame them for making no accusations at this stage in case they are very much mistaken.
One reason is that the Kremlin may consider Sinai Israel's sphere of influence. Russian operations that plant troops at the gates of Israel might cause her to lose her nerve and reconsider joining Russia as an ally. By contrast, MH17 was a terrorist act undertaken over Russian territory.
Once Riyadh is made short work of, Israel can clean the mess up in the Sinai just as easily as Russia can.
Russia doesn't need Israel as an ally. And Israel would be wise not to test the limits of Ivan's patience.
www.thesleuthjournal.com/syria-another-zionist-war-for-suckers-video/
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/04/us-israel-wage-war-on-iran-in-...
I know you're a hasbara troll, but you should try to remaijn within the ambit of sensible commentary.
Israel couldn't handle Hezbollah.
Short work in sinai?
Think again.
Israel hates to fight when the opponent can fight back. That's what Uncle Sugar is for.
and MH-17?
http://orientalreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/MH17map.jpg
Are you a liar or just stupid?
shot down over Ukraine, after which the black boxes and ATC tapes were hidden from the world, it is very likely that Kolomoisky the Jewish oligarch with ties to Mossad shot that down.
Hezbollah- a group of serious faggot little boy lovers.
tough talk out of you, considering the ass kicking they gave israel with a tiny fraction of the hardware.
lol.
fuck Israel and Hezbollah
fuck Sunni- Shia religious wars by proxie
fuck Putin and his crappy house of cards based upon hydrocarbon extraction and distribution
fuck them all because it is all really about oil
But when the USA engages in Hydrocarbon geopolitcal justifications they are evil.
And the world wants to set up a system that lets planes be controlled from the ground - to override a pilot - yet we cannot protect credit cards, banks, porn dating sites, CIA directors emails, or government employee data from hackers?
This won't take long the evidence of an explosion will be obvious. My money is on a bomb, no Manpad systems can reach 30k unless something more exotic was used, who knows. I imagine the Russains already know the cause of the crash and they have a good idea who did it.
Last week I saw two news story's of engine fires on passenger jets. I put those in the back of my head in file 13. Lets see how this plays out.
Those were alciaduh practice runs before the Big Game.
The good Muslims did it because Putin is helping the bad Muslims. This war within Islam for control of the faith, the Sunni Shia fuckfest can never be mentioned as a contributing factor to the spread of violence in the niddle east.
Putin went to Syria (shia) and an airplane was brought down by an explosion(sunni). Now way could it be terrorism. Never have they attacked passanger jets.(S)
Putin might be been responsible to the degree anyone who takes sides in the Shia Sunni war is responsible.
Welocme to the shit hole Soviets
SAA incudes Sunni also
you need back away from simple this is Shia Sunni exclusive
I count at least 4 points on the graph where i would have call "mayday, mayday" if i was the pilot.
When you're in the middle of a car accident you don't scream for help until after its all over. The pilots were faced with a severe emergency and were most likely focused on the emergency, not messing around with the radio. Stuff was happening in micro seconds. They were reacting. Probably didn't know they were dead until the plane broke apart. Then it was wide eyed emotion until impact.
So you don't think that the chorus of screams from 200 passengers will be heard and picked up by the 'black box' through the cockpit door?
Interesting.
In these kind of moments it is usually silence that grips people.
Sounds like the pilot was trying to shake off one of those giant Sinai aero-squids, look for the two-foot sucker marks on the fuselage.
What I wouldn't give to see the NYSE after the Russian's make the announcement that they are recalling all of their foreign service staff from Washington D.C., London and Tel Aviv back home, and expelling all of the U.S., British and Israeli foreign service from Moscow!...
Getting closer to that reality coming to fruition than one might think!
Pulling out of Tel Aviv would be a mistake. Russia has no actual quarrel with Israel. On the contrary, they are natural allies in the fight against Islam. Israel, on the front line of the battle, actually takes the Muslim problem seriously.
Breaking off relations with DC and London should have been done a long time ago.
what about in the fight against Likudnik Zionism?
www.thesleuthjournal.com/syria-another-zionist-war-for-suckers-video/
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2015/04/us-israel-wage-war-on-iran-in-...
Niall
The gas refinement deals between Russia and Israel isn't nearly big enough... Besides Israel was instrumental in fucking to hell Russia's closest business associate in Syria that has killed more than 1/4 million and scattered nearly 8 million to Jordan, Turkey Iran and Europe. Too much enmity has accumulated over time with too much controlled opposition, dragnet surveillance, coercion and idle threats by the Americans, Israelis and Saudis. Plus the fact we're forgetting what Tribe did to Ukraine and the use of the Chechen's inside Russia since the 90's that led to Belsan and Volgograd!
We both know the cabal has their differences on what they mutually agree is most important in terms of their pet project(s) but at the end of the day that petrodollar thing is the "glue" holding that relationship together and when it evaporates completely they know they won't have a friend in the World to extricate there asses from the "fire"!
Always the Jew. You think more money solves all problems and it's a baked in proposition from centuries of lending money that Eastern Europeans and Asians simply don't understand!
Remember South Ossetia?
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1834785,00.html
amazing how pervasive they are, eh?
what fucking idiotic hasbara horseshit. LOL.
Fuck Israel, by the way.
And fuck you, too.
The # 1 New York Times best seller the Israeli foreign intelligence agency The Mossad tried to ban. The making of a Mossad officer is the true story of an officer in Israel's most secret agency. The first time the Mossad came calling, they wanted Victor Ostrovsky for their assassination unit, the kidon. He turned them down. The next time, he agreed to enter the grueling three-year training program to become a katsa, or intelligence case officer, for the legendary Israeli spy organization. By Way of Deception is the explosive chronicle of his experiences in the Mossad, and of two decades of their frightening and often ruthless covert activities around the world. Penetrating far deeper than the bestselling Every Spy a Prince, it is an insider's account of Mossad tactics and exploits. In chilling detail, Ostrovsky asserts that the Mossad refused to share critical knowledge of a planned suicide mission in Beirut, leading to the death of hundreds of U.S. Marines and French troops. He tells how they tracked Yasser Arafat by recruiting his driver and bodyguard; how they withheld information on the whereabouts of American hostages, paving the way for the Iran-Contra scandal; and how their intervention into secret UN negotiations led to the sudden resignation of ambassador Andrew Young and the downfall of his career. By Way of Deception describes the shocking scope and depth of the Mossad's influence, disclosing how Jewish communities in the U.S., Europe, and South America are armed and trained by the organization in secret ?self-defense? units, and how Mossad agents facilitate the drug trade in order to pay the enormous costs of its far-flung, clandestine operation. And it portrays a network that has grown dangerously out of control, as internal squabbles have led to the escape of terrorists and the pursuit of policies completely at odds with the interests of the state of Israel. This document is possibly the most important and controversial book of its kind since Spycatcher.
I'd be on my way to the liquer store for a big buy.
More speculation, this time you're pushing it too far, Tylers, you sound as if you want it to be a terrorist attack or sabotage.
Anyways, Russian media quoting CNN report that the aircraft in question received tail damage during landing in 2001 in Cairo.
Yeah sure, tail damage from 14 years ago caused the crash. That sounds plausible...., lol.
I never said or implied that tail damage the aircraft recieved during operation was the cause of the accident.
Mmmaybe. Metal fatigue ya know. The tail assy usually survives a crash because it is built solid which means areas that are not easily accessible to inspection. There are borescopes, x-ray, ultrasound and other NDI tools I am unaware of but how ardently does this company follow pahsed inspections? Just saying, it is possible. Occam says it was a bomb.
That incident was 14 years ago and maybe hundreds of flights ago. This "accident" occurred during Halloween, in the Middle East, to a Russian jet, while Russia was blowing up Western assets and strategy within Syria and the greater Middle East. The conclusion is that the Russians believe NATO and U.S. dominance are no longer viable. The repercussions to U.S. influence and continued dominance are enormous. Once we are seen as weak enough, the barbarians will be circling the gates.
What's so special about an incident occurring on Halloween? Planes can't crash on Halloween by design or what? As to tail damage, look no further than Japan Airlines Flight 123 which crashed due to defective aft pressure bulkhead. The aircraft in question had a tailstrike incident seven years before the crash. The result of the failure of the bulkhead was explosive decompression.
Here's my position on Kogalymavia Flight 9268:
Maybe some goblins were sucked into the engines.
If they had flown over Israel .... they'd be home right now, Vlad the Bad .... preparing for Christmas .... which is now legal in the ex-Soviet Union ?
"one can't help but note that Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was brought down by a missile over Ukraine"
Photo evidence of the wreckage clearly shows that this is NOT true. It was brought down by large caliber machine gun fire into the cockpit. There is again clear radar evidence of at least one, and possibly two, Ukrainian fighters near the plane just before it came down. Maybe not coincidentally, the plane had been diverted by Ukrainian air traffic control. Lastly, there were ZERO confirmed sightings of the missile trails which would have been clearly visible from the surface to the impact. It seems that this was nothing less than attempted false flag utilizing Ukrainian resources and the media controlled by the criminals who call themselves US government.
In this case we need to also pay attention to the clear evidence and ignore all of the initial reports in the hours after the event, aside from trying to understand what lies the criminals want us to believe.
I don't concur with this fella, at this time, as he always far too quick to blame Israel, but, food for thought:
http://rehmat1.com/2015/11/01/did-israel-just-shot-down-a-russian-passen...
The claim in that article about altitude is bull.
The A321 flies at 31,000ft without a problem.
See: A321 at 31,000
Scattered body parts 8 km apart .... indicates a break up high above the Sinai "kitty litter" box .... not an engine failure, etc. .... without visible missle contrail .... my guess is on board bomb .... with timer .... altitude fuse would have gone off as soon as they reached trigger altitude .... whatever it would have been .... Monedian Logic ?
The little girl at the window = little boy on the beach = wag the dog.
I guess I am a cold hearted bastard. Because I am not buying it.
Wag the Toddler.
watching the US-MSM-OTA talk shows as I type this. Lots of Duping Delight on the faces of "experts"
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/31/did-accident-from-14-ye...
that, ronron is the main possible...
imagining inspection is able to find every damage is not reality
Probably this was just the normal incompetent Russian maintence. MOstly like the boys in the hangar were drinking the de-icing fluid again.
Or the brake fluid. No way in hell I'm getting on a Russian airplane.
Putin lovers must be downvoting like hell. This is going to be the most likely case, Russian maintenance.
Unless it's proven that it was sabotage, this will not bode well for Airbus.
Recall that Merkel was in China only 3 days ago, selling them 100 A320's and an option for 30 A330 planes. Interesting coincidence, to say the least.
Boeing is licking its chops.
That is nonsense. Both Boeing and Airbus have impeccable safety records. But an airline must of course maintain its planes.
PRAYERS for all of the families involved.
It does look like some sort of structural problem, or problems with the controls. It certainly looks like the pilots were fighting to stabilize the aircraft and get it under control. they got it stable after the first rapid descent, but tragically the aircraft did not stay controllable.
As my hobby I also film airplanes that suddenly explode. Do you really think that clip is real?
the clip is as fake as Hillary Clinton's concern for the workingman - but you don't have to fool everyone, just 80% or so, maybe less, will do it.
Think of how stupid the average person is.
Now consider that, by definition, about half of the population is dumber than that.
Excerted from http://jimstonefreelance.com
snip-
When anything big happens, such as the U.S./Israeli/whoever shootdown of a Russian airliner, troll teams test the water in think tanks trying to dream up whatever lie works. The two big lies are mechanical failure, and "tail strike damage" resulting in the tail falling off and causing the crash. Let's slay those quickly here . . . . . .
1. How can the tail falling off rupture all forward mounted fuel tanks, spray fuel all over the cabin and cause the plane to fall to the ground in a flaming mess, with pieces scattered everywhere? The reality in the wreckage proves a missile strike, if the tail fell off there would be two big pieces on the ground showing almost all of an airplane in the two, not two big pieces with a bunch of little pieces that have been burned to smithereens scattered across a 5 KM radius.
And the other big lie being told was : 2. The plane was a hunk-o-junk the pilot complained about all the time, and he even radioed in a malfunction (during some gray period near the end that is never defined). And I'll tell you why it was never defined: Because the plane went from cruising speed to terminal falling velocity in a fraction of a minute, and if the pilot did get word out of a malfunction, he did so while experiencing no less than 2 g's of deceleration as the fragments of the plane caught the wind and the wires ripped out of the radio. There was no time to assess what happened, and since missile strikes are not on everyone's mind when they go for a ride, he figured something happened with the plane.
Well, the plane was NOT a hunk - o - junk. France made it. It was inspected regularly and still within its service life. The fact the pilots were not happy with it because it was hard to start is irrelevant, if a car won't start easily it does not mean that the back doors are going to fall off on the highway all by themselves.
And "the tail blew out" lie really irks me, because: It is based upon a single incident where a different airplane did not get a proper inspection after it struck it's tail on the ground during landing, and a big piece blew out of it in flight. This happened ONE TIME in all of aviation history, and now we are supposed to believe that a Russian airline with no history of tail strikes suffered the exact same fate "just because" while it was flying near very hostile territory? Figure the odds, the white wash crew just chaps me.
All of the so-called anomalies, such as seam failures and GEE, look at how this ripped out here" are EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN A MISSILE STRIKE WHEN THE WIND CATCHES ON A RIPPED OPEN CABIN, pointing at damage caused by wind shredding the plane after a blast ripped it open and then saying Oh, that's what caused it all is FRAUD pure and simple. The key piece of info that proves a missile strike is the flaming wreckage, having the tail fall off won't rip the fuel tanks open, spray fuel all over the cabin and then magically light it all on fire somehow. But they won't mention that. They just gotta bury this, and it might work for the couch potatoes but Russia is not stupid.
UPDATE: Unconfirmed: There are rumors that Russia is going to go nuclear in Syria over the plane shoot down, however, I sort of doubt this rumor because it would cause too much of a damage to benefit ratio.UPDATE: CONFIRMED: Russia announced (after this plane shoot down) that absolutely no foreign troops would be allowed in Syria without Assad's consent. This announcement means that Russia will now take direct action against American troops. THAT CINCHES IT, RUSSIA KNOWS * WELL WHO SHOT THAT PLANE DOWN and even if the political whitewash machine won't hang that fact out on the clothesline, Russia's subsequent action says it all. MAIN REPORT FOLLOWS, THIS ONE IS A DOOZIE:
SUSPICIOUS: Russian passenger jet goes down with 224 aboard over the Sinai close to Israeli border UPDATE: CONFIRMED: PLANE SHOT DOWN BY MISSILE WHILE AT CRUISING ALTITUDE NO MATTER WHAT THE WHITEWASH IS, THEY WILL NEVER WIGGLE OUT OF THIS ONEHere is why: The plane, which "suddenly fell like a rock" was cruising at 30,000 feet right before it did, AND BODIES WERE FOUND OVER A FIVE KILOMETER RADIUS. Folks, there is only ONE WAY this can happen, and that is if an intelligent missile sought the plane's center of mass, exploded, and threw bodies in all directions from far far up. That is the only way they could possibly be spread out over a five kilometer radius. A bomb in the cargo bay would have to get a lucky shot to do that, and be absolutely HUGE. Not probable. NO MATTER THE WHITE WASH, CASE CLOSED.
Now Egypt's "ISIS" is claiming responsibility. This means Israel or the U.S. did it. Since this happened within missile strike range of Israel, well, what do you think? This plane had only Russians aboard, which virtually assures it was only important people aboard because normal flights have people from more than one country on them. Who would know that before blowing this plane up? Certainly not ISIS, if ISIS was the rag tag band claimed, they would be clueless about what they were shooting at. How would they bag the perfect Russian aircraft, and where did such a missile come from?
Forget the "engine problem" whitewash, it is unrelated and I looked into this, the crew only had problems starting the engines, once running they were fine and did not have a history of blowing people out of the airplane over a 5 KM radius . . . . . . which would be impossible anyway, an engine is not even able to get shrapnel into the passenger cabin, they are tested for that and France built the aircraft.
Update: Israel has stated they had intelligence assets on the ground where the plane went down. This is likely to ruin any investigation and could actually be the cause of the crash to begin with.
A Russian Airbus A321 went off radar while over the sinai peninsula 23 minutes after takeoff with 217 Russian passengers and 7 Russian crew. RT has reported the plane had tourists aboard, but in addition to this the plane had only Russians aboard, which strongly indicates this was a very important aircraft flown out of Egypt for a purpose with important people aboard. Most likely they were either important to Russia's government and/or Russian defense or business, this is the only probable way both the passengers and crew were entirely Russian. If the plane was not flown for a specific official purpose, the passengers would have most likely been of mixed origin.
RT has reported that the crew complained of engine problems before takeoff, and that they requested to land in Cairo, HOWEVER, the crash characteristics match a missile strike and not engine problems for the following reason - obvious complete structural failure of the airframe caused the plane to drop like a rock IN FLAMES after it hit cruising altitude at 30,000 feet. A plane cannot just fall out of the sky from 30,000 feet like this one did unless the wings are missing, if this was an engine failure it would have taken this aircraft a half hour to crash from that altitude, with full dialog from the pilots all the way down.
Instead, radar tracked this plane falling like a rock, with no communication from the pilots while it did so, until it vanished from radar at 5,000 feet and fell in the mountains. There are survivors this time, so there will be stories told if any of them make it. This plane crashed in Egypt, which means the Israelis will be hindered in killing survivors to prevent testimony if they did shoot this plane down.
UPDATE: Early rescue teams heard voices in the main wreckage, but are now reporting no survivors. THAT is suspicious. . . . . For now, Russia is playing it cool saying the plane went down due to an engine failure, but this simply does not wash, if it hit 30,000 feet it could have landed in Israel, Egypt, Jordan and possibly other places before it ran out of altitude, or at worst even in the ocean to improve it's chances if it still had it's wings. This one is suspicious to say the least and I would not doubt Israel did this one to settle a Syria grudge and will remain suspicious no matter what the "official story" ends up being. If the black boxes have bad news aboard, this could easily be the spark that does world war 3. If Israel did shoot this plane down, it will be a wrestling match between Israel and Russia for these black boxes, even if via Israeli infiltrators in Egypt's investigation if Egypt does the investigation. The best possible course is for Russia to get there ASAP and handle this one because no one can be trusted to do this type of investigation anymore. If Israel shot this plane down, it would end up being be another "suicide pilot" story if Russia does not handle this correctly.
https://chronicle.fanack.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/10/israel_I...
Was “Haji Qassem on that plane?
Some interesting theories there but I don't see why you claim it was a missile and not an explosive device planted on board.
Examination of the wreckage should reveal whether an explosion happened from inside or outside the plane.
Add: I don't buy the theory that this plane had VIPs on board. If it did, that would have been a coincidence. It was a Russian charter flight full of holidaymakers returning home. I'm sure there are lots of holiday charter flights all day/every day with only nationals of the home country on board. eg: Monarch Airlines in the UK carries mostly Brits to/from European resorts, very few forriners.
The mistake that jim stone makes in that article is that he claims it must have been a missile. At this time I doubt it. But it does not have to have been a single large bomb. This was done by massad/CIA not some hacks. They would have planned and inserted people to gain access to the plane and then had the time to plant smaller explosives at key points to cause it to break up in flight. Maybe use thermite again like the may have done for 9/11. That would just melt the metal a key places, no explosive evidence and the melted metal could be covered up with the fire.
I have seen comments this was a chartered flight. That might have taken it out of the usual system and made it easier to access.
I am not sure we will ever know about this. Currently it appears that Putin is trying to cover it up as an accident just as hard as the msm. Putin does not want the public know he is afraid of confronting massad/US. The ISIS group taking credit was probably a fall back explanation should Russia go public with evidence it was a covert operation by someone.
Putin's ability to be bullied and his fear of confronting what occured will not be igored. They will continue to keep him moving backwards unless he responds very effectively. His reponse can also be thinly disguised covert activity, but it must be larger than the initial event.
If Putin is the master chess player he already had a plan for this and it will happen very quickly.
Having only Russian on board means nothing.
The plane was back to St. Petersburg Russia.
If is not some hub that people from other countries use to travel the world and Russia is not exactly full of foreign nationals.
There are some, but percentage is extremely small compared to Western Europe or the US.
Also, a small bomb with right explosives could do huge amounts of damage. These places are not made to withstand internal explosions.
Jim Stone also blames Fukashima on Mossad, claiming that cameras placed in the reactor buildings were actually bombs. Is he objective or obsessed?
"Yes, it "broke apart", which would appear to suggest that it in fact exploded."
That is one of the possibilities but it also could have broken apart due to the forces on the plane if it went into an uncontrollable stall.
"Broke Apart In The Air,"
Did GM make the product?
Nope, the feckless eurotrash. And the feckless rus "maintained" it. Couldn't pay me to fly on that.
VW and now this.
Being flooded with Immigrants and the two main industrial employers get exposed. Race war ingredients. Stir well.
Bwahahaha!!!
That's a very good point. I was aware of the US war on Germany through Volkswagen but it never occurred to me the string of recent Airbus "accidents" might be down to the very same thing - Anglo-America's war on major European industries to ensure Pax Britannica+Pax Americana remains Numero Uno.
It is Franco-Russian incompetence until proven otherwise. Still it is interesting to follow. After Hillary's Libyan War and Benghazi SAM buying operation are there still a few loose anti aircraft missiles?
"[...] it's not clear why "some sort of control problem" isn't compatible with someone either hitting the aircraft with a projectile or else detonating an explosive on board. That is, when planes explode in mid-flight, it tends to lead to "control problems." "
My guess is that it suffered an explosion on board - possibly in the hold or anywhere - which seriously damaged the control systems and weakened/cracked the fuselage to the point it broke up. In the moments before it broke into two, it was careering up/down and pitching and rolling as reported.
This implies an explosive device was put onto the plane on the ground before it took off _or_ an explosive device was inside a piece of luggage. Was it timed to go off at a certain time or at a certain altitude or was it manually triggered by a passenger?
IS ground crew 5th column.
no russian hospitals that can be bombed so an airplane full of russians is just as well. i wonder who was on tht plane?
we will know what russia knows when we see putin's reaction to it.
The list of passengers was released yesterday by Russian EMERCOM.
anyone of real import?
Loss of life is always a tragedy, so saying that no one important died is cynical, but if you mean public figures, then no, no public figures were on that plane.
whining about loss of life in war is too late and a selfish act. war is death. get used to it unless you actually do something to stop it if that is what you want. i am nothing but a guy trying to be on the right side of the ship when it sinks but war is war. rationalizing the humanity of war is just a convenience.
Divorce lawyer?
With everyone "hating the Russians",...Technical difficulties my ass..