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Turkish F-16s Shoot Down Russian Su-24 Warplane Near Syria Border
Moments ago a big black geopolitical swan landed when newswires lit up with headlines that a Turkish F-16 shot down what was initially said to be an unidentified warplane near the Syrian border after it violated Turkey's airspace on Tuesday, a Turkish military official said, but the nationality of the downed aircraft was not immediately clear.
The Russian jet crashed in the mountainous Jabal Turkmen area of Latakia, where air strikes and fighting between rebels and Syrian government forces were reported earlier on Tuesday.
According to Reuters, Turkish F16s warned the jet repeatedly over the airspace violations before shooting it down.
A Russian Su024 aircraft goes down in Kizildag region of Turkey's
Hatay province, close to the Syrian border, on November 24, 2015
Footage from private broadcaster Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area, a long plume of smoke trailing behind it. The plane went down in area known by Turks as "Turkmen Mountain" in northern Syria near the Turkish border, Haberturk said.
Minutes later, the Turkish Lira sank like a rock while risk assets across Europe tumbled when the Turkish presidency confirmed that, as many had expected, the jet was a Russian fighter jet, which the Russian Defense Ministry later said was a Su-24. The Su-24 jet was warned after violating Turkish airspace and was then downed in line with Turkey’s rules of engagement, Anadolu says, citing officials at the presidency.
According to Todays' Szaman, in a statement, the Turkish military said a plane of unknown origin was shot down after it violated the Turkish airspace despite repeated warnings. The aircraft was warned 10 times in 5 minutes, the military said.
It said two Turkish F-16s were involved in the shooting down of the jet.
However, while moments ago the Russian defense ministry confirmed that the shot down plane was indeed one of its own in what will be deemed a clear act of aggression by a NATO-member country against Russia, the Russian defense ministry said it could prove the aircraft was over Syria for the entire flight.
The ministry added that the pilots ejected, according to preliminary info, and that Russia trying to determine their fates, Interfax reports. Interfax also adds that the plane was probably downed by fire from ground, and that it had been flying at flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters.
Meanwhile, Turkish media reported that either one or both of the pilots may have been captured by Turkmen forces located in the region.
- TURKMEN FORCES CAPTURE 2 PILOTS OF DOWNED RUSSIAN JET: AHABER
Although there is confusion whether both or just one pilot was captured
- SYRIA TURKMEN FORCES SAY 1 PILOT OF DOWNED PLANE CAPTURED: AA
Especially with a YouTube video spread showing what is alleged to be one of the pilots dead
More:
A CNN Türk reporter in Yaylada? said a helicopter was hovering over the scene of the crash, apparently to pick up the pilots, but that opposition fighters were preventing it. The reporter later said one of the pilots was at the hands of Turkmen opposition fighters.
Prime Minister Davuto?lu has been briefed by the General Staff and ordered the Turkish Foreign Ministry to contact NATO, UN and relevant countries about the downed plane.
This huge escalation in the Syrian proxy war, one where a NATO country has openly attacked a non-NATO country (if Russia is correct and it did not violate Turkish airspace), comes after Turkey called this week for a U.N. Security Council meeting to discuss attacks on Turkmens in neighboring Syria, and last week Ankara summoned the Russian ambassador to protest the bombing of their villages.
Ankara has traditionally expressed solidarity with Syrian Turkmens, who are Syrians of Turkish descent.
We await a formal reaction by Russia, one which we doubt will be calm, cool and collected and may in fact see the Turkish aggression as an act of war if indeed the Russian Su never entered Turkish territory.
Here is the official statement by Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov via Sputnik:
"So far, we have not heard the reason for the crash of our attack aircraft from the Defense Ministry. We know for sure that the aircraft was in Syrian airspace, over the territory of Syria," Peskov said, noting that the ministry's first statement on the crash was based on preliminary information.
"It would be wrong to make some kind of assumptions right now, to make any statements until we have the complete picture. Therefore, we just have to be patient. This is a very serious incident, but again, it is impossible to say anything without complete information," he added.
"It can be assumed that the president… will touch upon this issue during the talk with the king, and that there will be some kind of a reaction," Peskov told reporters when asked whether Putin would make a statement on the matter.
Elsewhere, the Turkish army released what it claims is a radar path analysis of the downed jet's flight path:
At first blush it is not clear how the airspace violating jet could have received "10 warnings" in the several seconds it took to cross what the Turks claim was the offending Turkish territory, especially since the plane ultimately crashed in Syrian territory.
Updates to follow.
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I guess the Kurds get new Russian equipment?
Something tells me the next russian planes to venture up there will be the SU27 or Su35 variety with heavy hitter pilots. This could get out of hand.
Don't worry bro's, Zero will fix this situation. After all, look at his track record... completely further destabilizing the Middle East.
Al Nusra claim to have machine-gunned the pilots as they descended by parachute. So moderate.
The finger of Turkish territory is about 3 km wide. The Turks claim to have warned the Russian aircraft 10 times, then targetted and launched a missile withing to 20 seconds of so the aircraft was in Turkish airspace. It sounds like a pre-meditated setup.
I guess this means that the Turkish Stream project is dead?
Greece’s Ministry of Defense did not respond to a request for information and comment, but according to statistics collected by Christos Kollias, a Greek defense economist at the University of Thessaly, last year Turkish military helicopters and planes violated Greek-claimed airspace 2,244 times. For this May, Kollias recorded 361 Turkish incursions into Greek airspace.
http://www.politico.eu/article/turkey-buzzes-weakened-greece-military-ai...
Greece take note. You can definitely shoot down Turkish planes and please do
Goodbye coalition.
Its true. Nobody will stand with Putin now. Well maybe Asswad will try and sit on Putins lap a while longer, but thats about it...
Vladimir Putin is so smart and patient. So, the arms companies have to kill enough Russian people, while still remaining coy, that the Russian people demand a solution.
So glad I never signed up for the military. Must suck to be them today.
There almost had to be a C-135 or similar command aircraft airborne in the region giving vectors to the Turkish F-16 and assurances it was not a French or US aircraft, if not a direct order to fire. I hope it was not a USAF C-135 but not too many nations have such aircraft.
I just pissed on my Turkish neighbor's Mercedes Benz.
Chairman = finally someone with some common sense.
Your neighbor drives a Mercedes. You ride a 100cc Chinese made scooter called the "Ill Wind"...
BBBWWWWAAAAAHHHHAAA!!!!!
125CC, Ex wife #2 got my Mercedes. I have 5 more years of Alimony for Ex wife #3.
I would not fly
Turkish Airlines for a while.
Why the poor timing of Turkey issues the week of Thanksgiving? The horror...the horror...
Because we eat turkey on Thanksgiving....and them mooslims have no one to be thankful to.
Can't see the EuroPeon North Amerikan Terror Organ limp dicks of NATO going down in flames with Third World fried Turkey for this Erdogan act of bravado.
This of course allows Russia basically to do anything it now decides with USSA'S head chopping liver eating mutts in Syria and beyond.
Onward to the war to end all wars.....finally.
When will a Counterpunch et. al. article appear claiming it was a Jooo false flag? The Russians surely were testing the Turks for months.
States of peace, doing their peace stuff.
I have a vision. I see a bear mooning a turkey and letting fly about 6 kilos of watery shit.
Where do we sign up for the Russian army to crush the evil... we need some red army brigades on this side of the pond
TPTB really have weird sense of irony - Turkey starting this thing right around USA Thanksgiving.
were all fuked
DeathCon 111
Timesup
Turkey has a conscription army. To my knowledge, so does Russia.
The senior NCO's and experienced officers run the show, as the average conscript is usually not very well trained.
I honestly don't see Russia throwing bodies into Turkey. That'd just bolster Turkish nationalism, and turn into a patriotic war. Russia is smarter than that.
The Kurdish PKK will most likely get lots of new toys and training though, and make life pretty miserable for the Turkish population, and why shouldn't they at this point?
This would provide the excuse for Turkey to enter Northern Syria...they aren't smart enough to not fall for this, and get sucked into a prolonged slaughter on Russian ally turf.
And lets not forget the famed Turkish fighting history. During the Korean war, the Turks were the only group really feared by the NKs and the Chinese. The Turks fought a "total war" whereby they killed the enemy rats, birds, dogs, Koreans, Chinese and even enemy buildings. They took no prisoners and left nothing standing.
Don't fuck with the Turks on the ground. Apparently not in the air either...
Sure, they are really tough, they genocided 1.5 million of us unarmed Armenians in WW1.
Fuck the Turks and their Western axis friends.
Sorry man. It's one thing to fight the PLA in the 1950'S, and quite another to fight the Russian Army in 2015.
My anecdotal experience in dealing with the Turkish Army tells me they are going to take a big bite from a shit sandwich.
The Romanians and the Poles had a way of dealing with the Ottomans in the past.
If you do not know what I am referring to check
out what Vlad Dracul was famous for.
Fact-based analysis and conclusions:
1. The Russian plane was shot down by Turkish planes, NOT Turkish ground-to-air missiles.
2. Turkey has nothing to fear from any aircraft from any of the groups fighting in Syria that has aircraft, eg Syrians, Russians, French, Jordanians, Americans, etc.
3. The Turkish planes could have very easily just visually engaged with the foreign non-responding plane and escorted it out of Turkish airspace instead of shooting it down.
Therefore I must conclude that the Turks very intentionally chose to shoot down the foreign plane and acted with reckless emotional stupidity, probably because the Turkish regime hates the Russians attacking the Turkish-backed rebels fighting against the Assad regime, especially the Syrian Turkmen.
How do you know thats what happened?
Perhaps the Turks warned the Russians over common squak. Then the warned with an intercept. Then they warned again over the radio. At that point, the Russian would be shot down.
The Turks have warned Russia time and time AND time again to not violate their airpsace. The Russians knew exactly what they were doing and paid the price.
9 seconds.
I know because I was a project manager in the development of automated warfare systems, including combat air-surveillance/traffic control, and I know the procedures that air forces follow - if the Turks wanted to be careful, respectful and courteous to the many foreign air forces operating in the area, then they would have ordered their pilots to close on the foreign aircraft, make visual contact, and signal the foreign pilots to leave Turkish airspace, escorted by the Turkish fighters. This is the routine practice.
This is the major difference between fighter interception, ie human pilots who can make visual identification and take commands to exercise discretionary maneuvers, vs ground-to-air missiles, which cannot.
This shoot down was UNNECESSARY.
The Turks wanted to send a hard signal to Putin about the Russian involvement in Syria.
But I do believe that Putin should not be in Syria proping up the Assad regime - Russia is on the wrong side of the mess there.
You didn't answer the question!
I asked you how you know what happened. The point is NONE OF US at this point know exactly what happened!
You backfilled your thesis with a bunch of ancedotal stuff without knowing what the Turkish F16s actually did.
Bottom line. The Turks may have done EVERY thing they need to warn the Russians before shooting them down. Nobody knows yet, so your statement of it being uneccesary is premature.
You may be 100% correct. But we do not know yet.
Read this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-24/russian-jet-s-downing-...
The Turks acted excessively aggressive in violation of established protocols and practices.
Two Russians are dead who should have returned safely to base.
Tensions have increased for no rational reason to no good.
You are wrong. Russia is on the right side.
Have you not seen what happened to Iraq and Libya after their strongmen where taken out.
All were secular.
Unlike Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
So, Turkey claims they didn't know the nationality of the aircraft SUPPOSEDLY in their airspace, yet they shot it down anyway?
Does anyone believe Turkey would risk shooting down a USSA or fellow NATO aircraft? Not in a million years. Therefore, they KNEW they were shooting at a Russian aircraft, and lied about knowing.
Boy are the jerks in Turkey stoopid to blindly (and obviously) follow orders like these from the USSA.
Also, I recall reading a ZH story a month or so ago that said recently Turkey recently made a completely bogus and unilateral claim that the turd extruding down from Turkey territory (where the airplane supposedly flew through) is part of Turkey... when in fact it is not Turkey territory. Unless I'm mistaken about which turd that article was about (which is possible), this is a typical USSA-like behavior where you simply claim something is true that is blatantly false, then act hurt when anyone points out you lie. Insane behavior typical of neo-con-jobs.
Now I read the FSA has shot down a Russian rescue helicopter with a US TOW missile. https://www.rt.com/news/323306-video-russia-helicopter-syria/
Yeah...that was really low....
Actually it's more than that, it's an act of war. BTW ISIS has thousands of these TOW missiles supplied by the US.
Please...
We now have "rebels" using Russian Kornet and the Iranian knock off to attack Syrian and Russian armor.
We now have Russian Kalishnakovs and Russian ammunition to attack Syrian and Russian forces.
We now have Russian made RPGs being used on Syrian and Russian made tanks and armor.
This entire TOW "debate" is complete bullshit.
10sec.? turkish officials began warning, when the plane was 30km from the border and consequently flied in their direction. simple
Tyler Durden: You don't reverse-check images before posting them do you?
TinEye Reverse Image Search
TinEye Firefox Plugin
Image #7 from the top is from an August 28th article in the Daily Mail:
UN say 43 of their peacekeepers have been detained by an 'armed group' at Syria-Israel crossing recently claimed by Al Qaeda-linked fighters
It's the 7th image down in that article too.
Some good reading here too:
http://www.theverge.com/2015/11/23/9772824/commenter-defamation-lawsuit-...
Off topic but still good.
Especially for you Sandusky types lurking out there.