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Russia Says Turkey's Attack On Jet Was "Planned Provocation" As Ankara Moves Tanks Near Syrian Border
On Tuesday evening, we took a close look at the circumstances surrounding Turkey’s decision to shoot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border. The incident was the most meaningful escalation in the conflict to date and marks the first time a Russian or Soviet plane has been downed by NATO since 1953.
The pilots ejected, one of whom was shot in his parachute by FSA-affiliated Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who subsequently celebrated over the body. About an hour later, the FSA's 1st Coastal Brigade used a US-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and rescue helicopter, killing one Russian marine.
For his part, Vladimir Putin called Erdogan a backstabber and proceeded to accuse Turkey of flying the black flag of ISIS and funding the Islamic State cause by facilitating the sale of illegal crude.
Miraculously, there were no further escalations overnight, but as we outlined in detail on Tuesday, something doesn’t add up about the story Ankara is telling. According to a letter Turkey sent to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and the 15 members of the UN Security Council, the Russian warplane, flying at 19,000 feet, “violated Turkish national airspace to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles in length for 17 seconds.” If you do the math on that, it means the Su-24 was basically flying at stall speed.
Journalists: Learn to do basic maths. Look at Turkey's statement to UN: 1.15 miles / 17 seconds x 60 x 60 = 243 miles/hour = 391 km/hour
— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) November 24, 2015
Here's how we summed up the situation:
It's important not to forget the context here. Ankara is fiercly anti-Assad and in addition to being generally displeased with Russia's efforts to support the regime, just four days ago, Turkey summoned Russian ambassador Andrey Karlov over the alleged bombing of Turkish villages near the border.
Of course Russia wasn't just bombing Turkish civilians for the sheer hell of it. It's likely Moscow was targeting the very same FSA-affiliated Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who shot and killed the parachuting Russian pilot.
In short, it looks like Ankara saw an opportunity to shoot down a Russian jet in retaliation for strikes on Turkish rebel fighters who are operating alongside anti-Assad forces.
With that in mind, note that on Wednesday, Sergei Lavrov (not known for holding his tongue or even for observing any semblance of diplomatic decorum) accused Ankara of conducting a pre-meditated strike. "We have serious doubts this was an unintended incident and believe this is a planned provocation,” Lavrov said, after a meeting with his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu. Lavrov also said he would back a plan to close the Turkish-Syrian border. "I think this is the right desicion. I hope President Hollande will tell us more about the issue tommorow. We would be ready to consider all measures that needed for this [closing the border]. By closing the border we will basically thwart the terrorist threat in Syria," he said.
Russia also said the Syrian army (so, Iran or Hezbollah) had retrieved the second pilot who is now "alive and well." Here's how French ambassador Alexandre Orlov summed up the situation in an interview with Europe 1 radio: “One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and killed in a savage way on the ground by the jihadists in the area. The other managed to escape and, according to the latest information, has been picked up by the Syrian army and should be going back to the Russian air force base.”
Note the difference in the way Russia and the US describes the FSA. For the US, they are a "moderate opposition group," for the Russians, they are "jihadists." Considering they are allied with al-Qaeda, and judging from the gruesome videos released by the group on Tuesday, you'd be forgiven if you're inclined to go with Moscow's characterization.
Meanwhile, Russia is set to deploy the S-400s. "Russia also said Wednesday it would take new measures in Syria to protect its aircraft, deploying powerful S-400 anti-air missile systems, which have a range of nearly 250 miles, to Russia’s Khmeimim airbase in northwestern Syria," WaPo reports, adding that "the airbase is located a little under 20 miles from the Turkish border, and has the potential to create headaches for Turkish and other aircraft in a U.S.-led coalition that are carrying out a separate airstrike campaign in Syria."
These are of course the same S-400s which the Western media claimed were already at Latakia earlier this month - a contention Russia denied at the time. Whether or not they were there is now immaterial - they'll be operational from this point on. As a reminder, here's what the systems look like:
What seems clear (as noted above and as discussed at length on Tuesday), is that Turkey is keen on protecting Alwiya al-Ashar and other anti-Assad forces operating near the Turkish border. Indeed, Sergei Lavrov said as much in a press briefing on Wednesday. "[The] question arises whether Turkey is defending Syria area to protect rebel infrastructure," Lavrov said at a press briefing in Moscow on Wednesday.
Indeed, Ankara looks to be stepping up its military presence near the area where the Russian plane was shot down. "Turkey has moved 20 tanks from west of country to southern province of Gaziantep, bordering Syria, and increased number of F-16s flying patrols along border to 18 as of yesterday," state-run Anadolu Agency said today. Here's a visual that shows you where Gaziantep is in relation to Aleppo and to the Su-24 crash site:
The logical next question to ask here is how prepared Turkey is to defend FSA positions because it's only a matter of time before the IRGC and Hezbollah invade these areas on the ground and when that happens, you can expect Ankara to cry genocide against Syria's Turkmen miniority. What comes after that is anyone's guess.
In the meantime, Lavrov says Russia "is not going to war against Turkey," but remember what we said last month when Turkey shot down a Russian drone: "For now, it appears as though The Kremlin is going to take this one in stride, but that may be "strike one" so to speak, meaning NATO might have one or two more pot shots it can take before Erdogan gets a slightly less "neighborly" call from Moscow."
Tuesday was strike two.
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Try reading a 5th grade grammar textbook.
You might learn the difference between noun being possessive versus plural.
Helps in not looking like an uneducated idiot.
Its time for Turks to return to Turkmenistan. Anatolia belongs to Greeks, Armenians and Kurds.
I understand Turks picked an answer for that: molon labe
This is what Greeks used to answer to Asians. So do you mean that Turks would learn Greek to by allowed to stay?
lol. what I mean is that your grasp of the realities involved is definitely not similar to mine. I might be wrong, but I don't think so
And i suppose you would also think that expelling every American (North and South) of European ancestry is a good idea too.
Ok, then tell me what is a Turk? How do you identify one? What do you do with those that were once Greeks who converted to Islam 500 years ago and who were expelled from Greece in the early 20's like the rest of you lot?
People like you are the kind that think genocide is a fine idea.
And do you really think that I meant it completely seriously? Isn't it possible that I am just temporarly angry because what they did?
But now seriously, they should return property they have stolen during the genocide of Armenians and Greeks in the last century.
At least Bospor should be returned to Greeks and Hagia Sofia stolen by muslims should become a christian church again.
The back-stabbing Islamo-Kikes are backpedaling hard - Turkish foreign minister said they didn't know it was a Russian plane. Trust a Turk at your own risk
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151124/1030689898/turkey-denies-plane-na...
If Russia didn't trust their own instincts when it came to dealing with Turkey, they should have at least watched Midnight Express.
And paid close attention to the happy ending.
I'm pretty sure US and rest of EU would rather kick Turkey out of NATO or suspend it temporarily rather than risk a war with Russia over stupidity. Damn retards, Russia has always came to the rescue in the two biggest wars of the previous century like they do know with terrorists and they (Turkey) STILL try to get in a fight with them. Sure, Russia and Putin are no saint, but c'mon...
are you insane? NATO membership is one way of keeping Turkey, which occupies one of the most important bits of geostrategic real estate in the world, as a western asset.
Turkey is forgiven any and every indiscretion and disobedience. The USA might target the individuals of a particular regime of Turkey, but Turkey as a state is the absolute centre-piece of NATO power projection and geostrategic presence. Turkey will never, ever be 'expelled' from NATO, and arguably, would not be allowed to leave if it wanted to.
Exactly. Churchill sold entire Central and Eastern Europe + 50% of Yugoslavia for Turkey and Greece to Stalin, to close Russia in the Black Sea and prevent them from projecting power in Mediterranean.
As long as there is NATO as such (US ruled), Turkey will be in NATO.
Yes, no doubt a planned attack to draw Russia in to a NATO confrontation. Hopefully Putin isn't dumb enough to fall for it.
Obamas Thanksgiving address--Be thankfull the world has not yet burned up from global warming and praise my efforts to stop this urgent effort to combat the ill effects to the enviroment which is the primary reason for the bad economy. Please remember the family of the Chicago black youth mudered by the police and that the protesters get their Christmas shopping done quickly during the holiday protests and looting.
Assads Thanksgiving address--We have sovereign air space too. Any non-Syrian plane flying in our airspace is subject to being destroyed.
Putins Thanksgiving address--Be thankful for the sacrifice Gods son Jesus gave us on the cross and the sacrifice made recently by 2 Russian pilots. Please remember their families in your prayers. Be thankful Russia does not act as hasitily and murderously as the terrorist we are trying to fight in Syria who are being supplied arms by the United States. These arms are responsible for many Russian soldiers deaths. Pray for the leaders of that country to act with wisdom in trying to erradicate these radical terrorists.
Nuke em Vlad. Nuke em. Then on to SA and Israhell.
Fuck you with your nuke war. I am sorry but I do not want to play Fallout IV live.
Just stop importing shit from Turkey, stop going there for vacation and they will change their attitude soon.
You can take a little fallout in exchange for ridding the planet of the greatest pestilence ever known.
Or you can stay passive and suffer a much more exruciating death as the zio cancer spreads unchecked.
Your choice mate.
"Fuck you with your nuke war" no fuck you
he is not the one who will start a nuke war but turkey
and stop attacking zh members for no reason
I'm pretty sure that was a good enough reason to attack anyone actually. Nuke war? Please, nobody wins if it comes to that.
At least we know now it's a fact that the US/NATO alliance is ISIS/ISIL. This incident should leave no doubt. No apologies yet from our dear leader for the loss of these brave men who were fighting the "contained" Jayvee Team?
What I want to know is when does Syria run out of oil? Shell engineers told me in '04 there were only 4 years' worth of reserves left.
LOL - same guys doing climate change calculations now?
Good point, dex, but these were actual engineers and roughnecks on the scene there, not a bunch of stiffs back at HQ.
Russia does not want to provoke any action that would give Turkey an excuse to send its army across the border into Syria. As the author states, it will only be a matter of time before Syria clears this area. The 'revenge' will be multi-fold; every Turkish fighter near the border will be 'lit up' by the S400 radar (meaning suicide if they fire on Russian planes), Russia will close the border which will effectively stop the oil trade and the flow of weapons from Syria, and you can expect some price increases and disruptions in the flow of Russian natural gas to Turkey this winter. You will also see Russia work with Europe (France, etc) to pressure Turkey to pull back.
wonder if Russia has moved any nuclear devices into Syria.
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14645
ZH is fun, kinda like an International Enquirer, but John Helmer rocks. Moon of Alabama is excellent too.
The Two Versions Of The Latakia Plane Incidenthttp://www.moonofalabama.org/
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/11/the-fear-department-pushes-for-war....
Being a Citizen of the World, these days the face in the mirror isn't smiling knowing taxes I pay to the USSA are supporting NATO, the National Assh0les supporting Terrorists Organizations, any suggestions?
The only bumper sticker I have ever seen that I would sport on my car is, GET THE US OUT OF TEXAS, that might solve the problem ... getting the US out of Texas, not the bumper sticker. :-P
Texas tan line: https://www.etsy.com/listing/97696311/sun-tattoo-texas-tanline
Vote from the rooftops, eh?
Love it! Quintessential Texas!
Agreed Analog. Read them both
Here is my blog roll:
The Hedge first
Fort Russ, Dances with Bears (Helmer), MofA, Rt, Russia Insider, Sputnik, Club Orlov and off and on the Saker ( dont like his new webpage format)
Thanks Anunnaki. :-) If you return here: Helmer - always; Sputnik was good for a while after they started, but now infiltrated with MSM views; Club Orlov - Dmitry is so grumpy he's hilarious ... don't read him often 'cause no need to preach to the converted ... ; Saker can be good, but too emotonal; I read RI before ZH; Fort Russ - hmmm, will have to check that out! What is M of A?
Most of this guy's stuff is posted on NEO: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/
If you are interested in Greece specifically, or EU economics in general: http://www.theautomaticearth.com/ ; Illargi is back in Greece - great (very sad) stuff, here is the latest: http://www.theautomaticearth.com/2015/11/the-automatic-earth-finally-ret...
Pepe Escobar is my favoirte journalist on the planet, he posts here, (and on Sputnik, sometimes RT): http://atimes.com/ Peter Lee is good too, generally I like AT, but they post too much stuff from Reuters (which I don't bother to read).
forgot pepe and M of A = Moon of Alabama
I obviously can't know which side of the border that plane was on. And neither can anyone else here, no matter how certain some of you are of your own pet theories. But please stop using the weak-brained argument that the 17 second thing makes Turkey's version impossible. If the plane was heading for the Turkish border, this would have been spotted long before it got there. So they would send warnings of this kind:
"Russian plane, please observe that you are heading for Turkish airspace and will arrive there in five minutes. Change your course, or we will open fire at the border."
"Russian plane, you are now three minutes from the Turkish border. Change your course, or we will open fire."
And so on for a couple of warnings more. And then, if the plane didn't change course, they could shoot it down within seconds of having crossed into Turkish airspace, and still have given plenty of warning beforehand. It doesn't mean that the incident had to have been premeditated. (Doesn't mean that it wasn't, either, nor that it did in fact happen in Turkish airspace. We just can't know.)
The Russian's base is ten minutes away. Did they start warning them because their plane was pointing down the runway towards Turkey?
Turkey was working with the Turkmen rebels. Occam's razor.
If the Greeks used this kind of "logic", the the Turk air force would have been gone a long time ago. Erdogan is simply pissed off about what was done to his boy's oil biz. Too bad he wasn't in one of the trucks...
Yes, they were looking to profit from blackmailing Europe over the refugees. Now, the blackmail will have to replace some of the oil revenue from ISIS.
The Greeks and Turks have ancient enmities. I just hope the Greeks never become a world power.
The DWN says the Turks are lying. The SU-24 was shot down over Syria. This was confirmed by the US. They are calling for the US to bring Erdogan under control.
Even when the USSR shot down an CIA airliner they had recordings of all the attempts they made to change it's course.
Where are the 10 warnings the Turks gave to that bomber in that 17 seconds? Same place as those Nazi Ukrainian ATC tapes over that forgotten Malaysion airliner I imagine.
It is what Putin said: a sucker punch
Now Lemonhead gets to make lemons out of lemonade. S-400s in the game
Börjesson Damn all red's for a sane question, a green from me, wear the red's with proud, paying jobs depend on it ;)
If we supplies ISIS with TOW's then the Tanks Ankara are moving will be toast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhte7fxn1Yw
turkish tanks are moderate pro-isis forces.
they also have a special woolen skin applied.
Interesting to read: Modern Turkish Army Tanks, Vehicles and Artillery Since 1950 http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/turkish-army.asp
Who is fighting who.............
Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Putin's delight on a radioactive night
MINIMUM RAGE!!!!!! HEE-YAH!!! (whipcrack)
....and all this to SAVE the Syrian people from a terrible, horrible, despicable leader.
Whew!
Can you IMAGINE how many tricks they would all be pulling over there if it was actually about oil or something?
The more Russian assets in the middle-east, the less they have available for Crimea. WIll Turkic provocation cause them to move more? It already has.
I know they have a lot left in the motherland, but still. While the US pulls out, the Russians put in. More bodies for Poland, less for the Caucasus. There are lots of 'terrorists' just waiting around Russia's lengthy border. Just ask Head of Ingushetia, Yunus-Bek Yevkurov.
Expect Russia's 9/11... coming soon.
obama was in Ankara a few days ago, wonder what he told this fool erdagon and by the way, these lies are getting brazen by the days but of course the sheeple cant even do the maths, thanks zerohedge
http://tass.ru/en/politics/839164
MOSCOW, November 25. /TASS/. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov after talks with his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu said that Moscow isn't planning any war on Turkey.
"We are not planning to wage a war against Turkey, our attitude towards Turkish people has not changed," the minister said. "We have questions only to the Turkish leadership."
According to the diplomat, friendly relations between the peoples of Russia and Turkey do not depend on politicians, but the bilateral ties will be seriously revised after the plane downing incident.
The Russian leadership has no plans to pay visits to Turkey or receive its representatives in Moscow, the Foreign Minister Sergey said.
Lavrov noted that he was going to travel to Turkey to take part in a sessioin of the Russian-Turkish strategic planning council, which is a coordinating body of the interstate dialogue. "Of course, after the attack against our aircraft we have cancelled this session," the minister said.
"We have no plans so far to visit Turkey or receive our Turkish counterparts here," Lavrov said. "Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu expressed hope that we will be able to sit down and discuss everything calmly on the sidelines of some international events, in particular, the OSCE Ministerial Council, which will take place in Belgrade on December 3 and 4. I made no commitments, first of all, we should not discuss but understand all aspects of what has happened."
"We do not evade contacts, my conversation with minister Cavusoglu today proves that," Lavrov said.
Nevertheless, Russia is not willing to artificially create problems for Russian and Turkish companies and producers.
Memo to historians.
This is one of the most astounding examples of geopolitcal work maybe in history. Compare certain entities bringing democtacy to various countries around the world and leaving them in ruins (mission accomplished) Hell, when we "brought democracy" to New Orleans after the hurricane some years ago, it still lies in ruins. Or even Detroit or any number of places right here. We don't need Washington doing us favors anymore.
When the Ambassadors are expelled, it's WW III
Can someone please show some maturity in this situation? No one's interests in Syria are worth going to war over. Can we please just sit down, come to an agreement, and end this civil war? There are a lot of real costs to what is going on, and the potential costs are astronomical.
"No one's interests in Syria are worth going to war over."
Obviously quite wrong.
That's assuming that war isn't the ultimate interest.
Your threshold for extinguishing human life is obviously much lower than that of various nations' leaders. ie, you're not a psychopath.
Turkey, the USA and the West in general proudly flying the black flag of Al Qaeda.
We are all terrorists now.
Je suis ISIS.
CIA: Nous sommes ISIS, avec nôtres maîtres.
Mossad: Nous contrôlons le CIA, et nous aidons ISIS. Nous les traitons dans nos hôpitaux.
There is no way this shootdown ws done without US approval. None. The Russian diplomat was entirely correct.
Turkey is just a vassal state, whatever decisions they make are not their own and haven't been for quite some time.
Interview with Petraeus, published on 23rd November 2015. He suggests there should be some sort of a headquarters of a "joint task force" in Turkey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onk7P6jpFuU
Suppose they could put it conveniently next door to this...
Hakan Fidan, the head of Turkey's National Intelligence Organization, and Turkish President's staunchest ally, said: "...it is imperative that ISIS must set up a consulate or at least a political office in Istanbul."
http://www.awdnews.com/top-news/turkish-intelligence-chief-putin-s-inter...
Rescued crewman is talking...no warning and not in Turkey airspace.
Russia MOD has identified unit responsible of murdered Pilot.
Commander is Turk, has been identified with photos.
Turkey ' Grey Ghosts' left Turkey and inserted very recently, and posititioned with
the Turkmen rebels. There are other evidences also.
have a supporting link? Would like to share this info.
Who do you beleive: Stupid fucking Turks or a Russian RIO (What we used to call them in the Navy - Radar Intercept Officer) who happened to have graduated #1 from the Russian Topgun program
"The 39-year-old airman, who won the Top Navigator award at Russia’s biggest military flying competition last year, says he will ask to return to front-line service as soon as he is declared fit.
“I must ‘pay back’ the debt for my captain,” said Murakhtin."
https://www.rt.com/news/323431-saved-pilot-turkish-su24/
BOT TAK
search Rescued Russian crewman
just as I do now..l find: RT (US) breaking news Englsh
Anna News video of rescue posted hours ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umsp9wIjolY
many Russian sites
russiandefencenet (English) maybe in discussions there. Syria and Syria/Russian threads
many knowledgable guys there...
erdogan will press.
have to do business near some antionalists from there.
they think and live backstabbing as an art in daily life.
Is it not the Turks who stab each other in the ass (with a knife) as an insult?
Buy the dip...always works. Fed has your back. Easy money.
there is still a normal wording in germany roughly translated as "to turk something" which means some sort of nasty betrayal, dumb and easy ot detect but after all successfull.
not backstabbing in special more like faking everything around one
This all makes 'Bay of Pigs' look like a resounding success.
Congrats Oblowme... well conceived and executed.
Could be planning in place for the leaders of Turkey to cut their own throats,meaning that the Kurds will be given a homeland and Turkey possibly divided in two.
Its a pity that when the yankee top guns are deployed to murder women and children from high altitiude while high on meths when they are caught by the russians, standard US Airforce procedures wont be applied to them; Ie pickpocketed raped beheaded beaten murdered castrated eaten.... It would be extremely cathartic right now for the rest of the world to see standard US military procedures applied back on them for a change
Its a pity that when the yankee top guns are deployed to murder women and children from high altitiude while high on meths when they are caught by the russians, standard US Airforce procedures wont be applied to them; Ie pickpocketed raped beheaded beaten murdered castrated eaten.... It would be extremely cathartic right now for the rest of the world to see standard US military procedures applied back on them for a change
Another smart move on Putins part, they still haven't figured out that he is not playing checkers. Meanwhile the evil idiots continue to expose themselves for what they are. Even US hornet pilots have to be disgusted by this war crime as it has broken all rules of honor and decency. TPTB are making their claim of higher moral ground more preposterous by the day.
The powers controlling Turkey probably don't have to be defeated just give them enough rope to hang themselves, I would still cut off their gas though, with any luck the cold population will run Erdogan out of power. The Turkish will be better off for it in the long run.
Erdogan sounds like a wanna-be Mussolini.
Erdogan thinks he's the new Kissenger.
For sure he is no Kemal Ataturk.
do the stupid donkey turkeys even understand that erdogan is not turk but georgian of origin (with some jew gens mixed into)?
At this point, who the fuck cares!!!
i do beacue he is a foreighner, who dont cares about turkey but pretend to be one of them
(similar merkel who is from poland - this pattern only bring destruction, brainwash and agression to society and on finally spread over to a global scale)
So, leaders are not from the country they rule. That's Turkey, Germany and America. Explains a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rcc7xgD2dM
So, I am sitting here reading through the comments and not one, but two fighter jets, just blew over the top of our neighborhood. What a strange coincidence? And, yes, it is exceedingly rare to have that happen where I live.
You would not believe the shit flying around Texas these days. Reminiscent of the escalating Viet Nam era.
I hear you. Not unusual for us to see the occasional C-130 or 141 fly over, but not fighters, and certainly not as low as they seemed to be (windows in the house rattling hard). Could not get outside quick enough to see exactly what they were.
Half of ISIS funds come from oil it is said. The other half comes from Obama.
as long as they price the oil in dollars, ISIS will be supported by the US
The Saudis & Quatar are probably giving the largest share. After all, this is a Sunni/Shia oil and gas pipeline war.
I expect the Turkish Kurds to be recipients of some nice new shiny Russian AA capability among some other various and sundry military hardware.
I see no reason for Russia not to utilize a highly motivated anti-Turkish Govt. entity for it's own purposes.
Good point!
Just like the movies, "So be it, Jedi.." We're off to WW3 boys and girls.
I don't get what Tyler seems to gain from constantly claiming that the only ground forces in Syria were either Iraqi or Irani Shias, it is true there are big numbers of them in the country. But the Syrian Army has not disolved entirely there are still many Syrian men fighting for the country and ZH is doing them a great dishonour in portraying it as if all Syrians had deserted Assad and left for Europe, it's just not true!
Indeed, how many Russians are fighting among the ranks of the various Jihadist militias? Thousands.
I'll go with the theory that the shootdown happened when the Turks were p*ssed off ... after Russia bombed the ISIS oil tankers, That cut the flow of ISIS oil through Turkey, and cut off the extra revenue ($$) they were making on the oil. Probably Turkey was using the profits to bankroll their attacks on the Kurds. So the whole operation ground to a halt.
The eastern side of NATO looks much more like the Toilet Bowl.
I doubt that the Russians will let this "blow over". You know what they say. Revenge is a dish that is best served cold.
Can I offer a slight correction to your comment?
It appears those were Turkish tankers with Turkish drivers
a few observations:
Vlad is quite unwilling to hit back on demand. There has been such an effort to get him to go all-in in the Ukraine and he would not, even when the Russian "street" was willing. He refuses to give NATO/Poland their excuse. He did use the brouhaha to recover a rook, in Crimea, however. So, the 'what will he do' could involve an asset far from the current action. (Giving the western side of the Bosporus and the old city back to the Greeks would be interesting. It might justify all those German submarines in the Greek navy. The European "street" would be in awe, no doubt. And it would create a very small province more amenable for Syrian war refugees.)
The French hate the Turks, the Danes hate the Turks, the Italians hate the Turks so if guys at NATO headquarters in Brussels think that this "attack on an ally" ....the incursion, remember, not the downed plane, will rally Europe, they need to get out more.
Vlad is unlikely to wrangle directly with Turkey because that makes Russia a second-rate power, like Turkey. Vlad sees Russia as a Great Power. Great Powers solve international problems. They do things that lead to new equilibria, to trade and prosperity. To travel, feasting and games. So, no Vlad doesn't hit Turkey, he'll let Suliamani arrange it. But, clearly, an attack in the Sinai, an attack on the Turkish border, and an attack on infrastructure in Crimea, an escalation in Donetsk....this isn't sending messages. Someone is at war with Russia.
It's gotta be the OILigarchs! But who of them is a big question. Somebody isn't making any money or they're losing it big time. As discussed in a previous ZH article, when the tankers go, the flow of cash stops. Couldn't be the middlemen. Has to be ones controlling them. But WHO?? Who has those kind of connections that can orchestrate something like this?
The United States of Saudi-Israelia.
What is it with the Turks and leaders named Vlad?
Vlad is not correct dimunitive for Vladimir
to close people is Vova
Obama's Victoria Nuland and her cronnies are itching for a nuke war.
They think they'll survive it but they won't.
Vicky Nuland is just 'Itchin'...It's those Jewsish crabs...very hard to get rid of!
Important quote from above
"obama was in Ankara a few days ago, wonder what he told this fool erdagon and by the way, these lies are getting brazen by the days but of course the sheeple cant even do the math"
Like I said, Obama punks Putin
To be a fly on the wall of the Pentagon War Room
I hope it is not a trap for Russia since they appear to be trying to take out ISIS
Then again, it is probably much bigger than that
Big strategic moves coming
Your giving morons to much credit. we are good at making movies not war.
This is hilarious Russian propoganda. Turkey has been tellign the Russians for weeks to stop overflying Turkey, or bad things will happen. Does Russia listen? No.
Even the late pilots o this exact flight were warned 10 tie that they were closing in on the Turkish border, and should turn south, Did they listen? No.
And no the Russian go around jabbering about how it's everybody else's fault. Typical third-world behavior from the Russkies.
Langly, you guys have to try harder to make your arguments more justafiable.
Just say "TROLL ALERT" - Ignore them and they leave.
Kinda like Obama and Co calling anyone not wanting hordes of imported Muslims "racists?"
Do you know when Chicago will have that false-flag operation carried out; a time frame?
So far the Russian response has been quite measured. This bodes well for keeping us from Nuclear Armageddon...and Turkey is a NO GO zone for Russian Tourists (westerners would be smart to avoid it now, especially as ISIS is strangling people in Istanbul airport toilets and setting up a consulate there).
good responce
but remember
dogs are merely mortal
good luck with that.
Go to fortrussblogspot.com
Article on Russians banned from visiting Turkey. 12% of Turkey's tourism. Already compounded by major Western cancellations
Similar to Russia's counter sanctions on EU foodstuffs. This will make small business Turks furious at Erdogan bring pressure to bear
This is NATO's/US way of starting a war with Russia, by proxy including the further build up in the Ukraine. Turkey has played both sides of the fence when it comes to East and West...that never ends well, for both sides will see them as expendable when the time is right. Turkey's days are numbered imo.
I believe the Turkish leader will be out within 6 months willingly or in a body bag.
6 months?? I'd guess alot sooner Croc...and yes in a bodybag hopefully, I hope he meets the same end as Gadaffi...A broadsword up the ass, broadcast on Youtube for the whole world to see.
I'm itchin to crack my bottle of Courvoisier XO (as many regulars on here are aware) and a sword up Erdogans ass would do it for me.
N.B. I have another just in case Mcain has a heart attack and dies...or...Hillary contracts AIDS.
I would agree it was planed because of previous Russian violations. The, "next time" finally came around. As far as who's weapon does what you have to realize that every country that makes weapons has a buyer in the Mid East. Kalashnikov for example is not an American name I am sure and you don't hear America screaming Russian rifle every time an American trooper is killed by one.
I also agree that Turkey was protecting it's interests on the ground in Syria just like Russia is supporting It's interests on the ground in Syria.
Welcome to the sandy, bloody arm pit of the world, Mr Pootin. If you feel violated you should be either visiting the UN with a complaint or nuking Ankara.
"Kalashnikov for example is not an American name I am sure and you don't hear America screaming Russian rifle every time an American trooper is killed by one."
Err, BUK missile??
Yes, fired by Russian backed rebels and probably operated by a Russian. Also and most important the weapon shot down a civilian plane.
...and yet 18 months on still no proof?
Strange?!?!
Yes, if you are a Pootin lover/America hater. I love His excuse that he didn't present his "evidence" because he would not get a fair shake at the UN. Gawd I wish Obama would use that just to see the Medieval rants on ZH.
Putin has options. The UN is a farce and nuking Ankara, for now, is off the table. Turkey gets some of it's fuel from Russia. At a guess, that arrangement may change. If I were Putin, I would cut the American cables to Europe, cut fuel to Turkey and Europe and say nothing.
"I would agree it was planed because of previous Russian violations."
lol, that's your argument?... what about more than 1000 Turk violations of Greece border since 2014?
should they be visiting UN too?
keep crapping your bullshit :-P
Gerald Celente says, "When people have nothing to lose, they lose it". The French didn't have their revolution until they had nothing to lose. I'm assuming we will do nothing about our government until we have nothing to lose. Too bad. A lot of decent people will die before then.
There's a few ways this could go down, my hope is as follows;
There's an emergency gathering of the U.N. where Putin shows evidence of Turkey's involvment with arming and funding ISIS.
The U.N. takes a vote on sanctioning Turkey (U.K. will abstain - pussies and U.S./Israel will vote against - Fucktards) but the majority of countries will say 'Yes'.
Erdogan himself will be implicated in what construes to War Crimes, and he will start to spill the beans on anyone and everyone involved (He's hardly A Delta Force/S.A.S tough guy, this little bitch would blab as soon as looked at)
All the countries he implicates will go into self-defence mode, covering their own backs and blaming each other.
The outcome will be Turkey, Saudi, Qatar and possibly Kuwait/Ukraine (Depending on how much he blabs) will all be sanctioned.
The price of oil will shoot up (Taking these big oil producers out of the game) and Russia will reap the benefits of all that extra income.
Russia will then start trading oil and gas in either Rubles, Yuan or Gold (Maybe even Euros)
The petrodollar will be finished.
Mass civil unrest will take place in many of the countries involved in this; U.S.A Saudi, Qatar, U.A.E Ukraine and maybe a few European countries.
New governments will be installed that are not pyschopathic, warmongering, evil little cunts.
The world will enter a phase of peacefulness, economic growth and stability.
We (us serfs) will live happily ever after.
The final scene is Hillary putting a gun in her mouth and pulling the trigger.
Fade to black, roll credits, and it's a huge success.
Probably wrong, but I've had a few drinks and I don't care.
Hey Pliskin! Send me a bottle...I'm desperate! Great post....superior gonads.
I think he is now washing the mess off his hands in the bathroom
Hey DSTY when will you and your brethren come to realize that us ZH'ers are immune to your DC, CIA, Latvian, Ukranian, Estonian bullshit? Post what you will, it's a free space, but no-one here belives you, and everyone here knows what, and where you come from. Why don't you head on over to Sky News (Snigger) or Fox (Snortle) and post your shit there? Those are the Sheeple that will buy into your bullshit.
Good luck.
Snake.
I see
anyone who disagrees with your comments is a troll
who you trolling for?
This site does not belong to zioparanoia
They just love to hang out here
" I don't give a fuck about your war...or your President."
---Snake Plissken, NY Maximum Security Penitentiary
I've had a few bongrips:
Putin should release the intel on how 9/11 was a co sponsored Israeli Neocon job
The Russians aren't going to "war" because they had their hand called (Multiple airspace violations). Opinion is very narrow to this specific event.
Turkey has 'deep state' ties to ISIS, but so does Assad's govt., as well as Iran and by association Russia. All the parties directly involved apparently are throughly infused w/ Machavellian machinations since the 'ISIS' oil infrustructure and revenues have been off the target list. There are no good guys.
Do you deny that Assad's gov't is purchasing ISIS petroleum?
how can you see out of that tiny hole?
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.672599
https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2015/11/17/embarrassed-by-putin-us-mili...
Anyone else impressed with the restraint Russia has shown?
They are currenty looking like the world's sole, honorable leader to anyone with an IQ north of 100.
'The Russians saddle their horses slowly, but ride fast'
-Otto von Bismarck-
Speak vaguely, and carry a big piñata.
George W Bush
'anyone with an IQ north of 100.'
So that rules out Yomutti, Falconflight, DTSY, Alphahammer...
Right, gotcha!
those total not 100 yet...
Ohhh I get it! So those oil tankers were turkish. Gotcha!!
Erdogans Son controls the smuggling of stolen Syrian oil.
Erdoghan has got a huge price tag new palace with 1150 rooms (!) just being completed for him to inhabit. It would really piss him off if it fell down one night, and provided it was videotaped would be a good watch on youtube.
Not to mention Turkey is going broke.
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11660864/Turkey-becomes-first-domi...
It's interesting how political egos rise in proportion to debt and peak at the time of economic collapse.
Broken link
FACT: Russia Federation has violated Turkey airspace many times
Russia admits violating Turkish airspace; NATO says it happened twice
Turkey has warned Russia Federation to stop violating Turkey airspace
Turkey warns Russia over airspace violation
So did NATO
NATO warns Russia over airspace violations as Syria airstrikes widen
But Russia ignored it and Turkey finally responded to those violations with force as other measures where not effective.
Turkey shoots down Russian jet it says violated its airspace
So it's not appropriate to call Turkey as traitors and accuse Turkey for backstabbing Russia Federation if Turkey and NATO has warned Russia Federation many times - not to violate Turkey / NATO airspace but Russians ignored it anyway.
Yeah but Turkey has invaded other countries air space like its enemy Greece over a hundred times so not buying that.
By not even looking at what you claim is true – are you saying that Turkey has no legit right to defend it’s airspace anymore?
NO, he's saying that Turkey has invaded Greece' airspace over a hundred timed this year, and none of their jets have been shot down! Maybe time for a change, Turkish jet enters Greek airspace ... shoot it down..fair game, eh?
So, you admit Turkey has legit right to defend it's airspace - which is what they did. Now, moving to Greece and Turkey - you are aware that both countries are member of NATO and NATO shares common airspace?
Here is what Turks had to say 3 years ago, when their airplane was downed in Syrian airspace:
"Air space violations are incidents that happen almost every day, and are resolved in a matter of minutes within international law," the Turkish General Staff said in a statement. Six airplanes violated Turkish airspace last week alone, the General Staff said, of which none were shot down and left Turkey's airspace after they were warned by Turkish personnel.
A violation of one to two kilometers is accepted as "natural" given the speed of aircraft, the statement said. This year's violations of Turkish airspace lasted between 20 seconds and nine minutes, which showed "airspace violations can be resolved by warning and interceptions," the statement said.