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He Lived Through Hyperinflation, Devaluation And Confiscation: This Is His Advice

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Nearly four months ago, when bitcoin was still languishing in the low $200s, we explained why in the post-Yuan devaluation regime, where all Chinese capital outflows are now scrutizined through a microscope, bitcoin will inevitably see substantial appreciation as the local population scrambles to transfer funds out of China and into more traditional end markets, such as the US, Canada and western Europe, using such still largely unregulated mediums as bitcoin and other digital currencies.

Why not gold?

This is what we said in the beginning of September: "China's propensity for gold is well-known. We would not be surprised to see a surge of gold imports into China, only instead of going to the traditional Commodity Financing Deals we have written extensively about before, where gold is merely a commodity used to fund domestic carry trades, it ends up in domestic households. However, while gold has historically been the best store of value in history and has outlasted every currency known to man, it is problematic when it comes to transferring funds in and out of a nation - it tends to show up quite distinctly on X-rays."

Which is why we would not be surprised to see another push higher in the value of bitcoin: it was earlier this summer when the digital currency, which can bypass capital controls and national borders with the click of a button, surged on Grexit concerns and fears a Drachma return would crush the savings of an entire nation. Since then, BTC has dropped (in no small part as a result of the previously documented "forking" with Bitcoin XT), however if a few hundred million Chinese decide that the time has come to use bitcoin as the capital controls bypassing currency of choice, and decide to invest even a tiny fraction of the $22 trillion in Chinese deposits.

Two months after we wrote this, bitcoin more than doubled to $500 before retracing some of its recent gains, and has resumed its rise again.

Why? This time the answer is Argentina, where as we reported two days ago, the new president admitted that "there are no more dollars in rhe central bank" which means that the days of the country's capital controls are numbered, and because as Citi said president-elect Macri wants to unify the official and parallel exchange rates (~9.60 and 15.50 ARS/USD, respectively) that will entail a substantial devaluation. Just how overvalued is the peso, you ask? "Grossly."

In other words, another major currency collapse is in store for Argentina, its fourth major one in recent decades.

It also means that as yet another country is about to take currency warfare to the next level, bitcoin is posed for another sharp move higher (even as Chinese demand for the fiat alternative continues to grow).

And since the topic is Argentina's upcoming latest currency collapse, courtesy of Raoul Pal's RealVision, here is an interview by Dan Morehead, Ex-Head of Macro Trading at Tiger Management and now CEO of Bitcoin investment firm Pantera with Wences Casares, an Argentinian Founder of Xapo and one of the pioneers of bitcoin.

Wences, an Argentinian, has seen his family's wealth evaporate not once, not twice but three times due to hyperinflation, devalulation and confiscation and that has led him to bitcoin. His driving philosophy: "There are more people in the world who need a currency they can trust, than there are people in the world who can trust their currency."

More from the person who knows all about currency destruction in the excerpt below...

... and as usual, the full interview can be seen on the RealVision website (which boasts dozens of other interviews with financial luminaries) and where a bitcoin subscription discount is available.

 

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Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:07 | 6848174 coinhead
coinhead's picture

How was fonestar ever obnoxious???

And fonestar was tons more obnoxious than these trolls!!

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:15 | 6848440 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I dislike your cheerleading. I prefer contemplative and thoughtful comments, even if I agree with your conclusions.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:18 | 6848443 coinhead
coinhead's picture

sometimes coinhead does those ones too

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:54 | 6848533 seek
seek's picture

It was too over the top, which is obnoxious. You've mellowed in your age.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:09 | 6847975 joego1
joego1's picture

I think the next depression may be minus the internet for many folks in the world otherwise I think bitcoin is a great idea.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:14 | 6847989 argennco
argennco's picture

check it out at 2:27. the Flag 'WISE UP' is suddenly flashed (subliminally) for about a quarter second. Anyone care to comment. I mean, they're not selling popcorn here!

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:17 | 6847998 ghostzapper
ghostzapper's picture

The dumbest viewpoint in the history of finance:

BTC Is working its way through putting people to sleep absorbing the big move on huge volume with this healthy consolidation. Lots of "work" grinding out action at 313ish which was a 61.8% retrace level. Bounces off 340ish would be very good action as eventually that will pull in another volume surge.

Absent major changes to the TA high probability turned the corner and new uptrend is legit. In the $600's by February. This bull move should be multi-month and exceed 2.5x ATH and perhaps much, much higher than that.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:26 | 6848251 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

And then there's 'the halving' sometime during the middle of 2016.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:50 | 6848347 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

I'm buying and buying, and selling, and arbing, and I got a 400 handle, and I'm buying and selling, and buying. Yeah Bitchez I'm a Bitcoin trader. Trading and sleeping, trading, and sleeping all week long bitchez! Cutting edge trading platform lets me trade commodity futures real time using Bitcoins. I'm a trader Bitchez! Trading it. Yea.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:31 | 6848002 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Bitcoin is the saviour?   Hahahahahaha

So all bitheads, how do you buy bitcoin in Argentina? Or Venezuela?   The local currency Pesos or Bolivar are NOT exchangeable for dollars, or any other hard currency.   In Venezuela, people are limited to exchanging $180 dollars PER YEAR.  

Lets see what answers the geniuses have for that. 

 

I will add, that in Venezuela, there is bitcoin denominated in Venezuelan Bolivar.  Trouble is, it's worthless outside of Venezuela becaue nobody will exhange it.  Or they will, at the official exchange rate at 1/100th of the street rate used to buy that Bolivar bitcoin . 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:32 | 6848044 tmosley
tmosley's picture

What a fucking idiot.  Either you can buy bitcoin or you can't. If you can't, it's because it is too valuable and no-one wants to sell it to you for your shitty currency.

If bitcoin was bad, you would ONLY be able to buy it with crumbling currencies, and no-one would give you strong ones for it.  But I can buy gold and silver with it directly at Amagi Metals, so it must be worth something.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:34 | 6848052 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

You didn't answer my question  HOW do you buy bitcoin with Argentinian pesos if you can't get dollars? 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:43 | 6848081 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

plenty of sellers listed on localbitcoins.com in Argentina accepting peso's.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:56 | 6848121 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Take a look at their limits.  1/2 a bitcoin to 4 bitcoins MAX (4 bitcoins with restrictions)  when purchasing with local currency. 

You can't use it to move much in the way of money out of the country like that.  

Like I said, great for buying coffee, but not for real financial transactions. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:18 | 6848219 mijev
mijev's picture

"Like I said, great for buying coffee, but not for real financial transactions. "

So what would you use instead for real transactions in venesuela or argentina? Would you prefer to walk into a bar and hold up a bunch of usd or a chunkof gold and ask if anyone wants to buy it? No one would trust that either the gold ot the usd weren't fake. The locals can trust bitcoins because they're a little more tough to fake.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:37 | 6848294 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

I can, and have gone to some of the most backwards shitholes in the world. 

Every time I hold up US dollars, there's never been a problem.  Those people KNOW how to spot forgeries, they check every bill.  Unlike the vast majority of sheeple in developed countries that never check and don't know what to look for. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:52 | 6848349 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Every time I hold up US dollars

Amazed you haven't been murdered. But then, I suspect that the extent of your travels has been "backwards shitholes" like Italy and maybe Turkey.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:01 | 6848390 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Worst shithole was Liberia several times from 3 to 5 years ago, just a couple years after their 18 year civil war. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:17 | 6848442 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I reiterate: I am amazed you haven't been murdered.

You might like having a currency that can't be taken off of your dead body.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 00:13 | 6848569 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Liberia doesn't have POWER never mind internet access.  The entire power grid, and ALL infrastructure was destroyed during the war.  The only power is what you can generate yourself. 

The ONLY internet access is through satellite uplinks, and you need a 12 foot diameter dish for a reliable connection. 4 foot dishes are in and out during the rainy season.  

There are cell phones, but NO data.  And the phone system also goes down every couple of days, for hours at a time when it rains, which is 6 months of the year. 

Tell me, how's bitcoin going to work?  Smoke signals?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:45 | 6848085 rapetrain
rapetrain's picture

You buy it from someone selling BTC for $ARS. There is a list on localbitcoins dot com. Put in your location as Argentina and see

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 09:53 | 6849119 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

The rates are ridiculous. 

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 14:49 | 6849992 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Of course the rates are ridiculous.   They are dealing in a black market currency, namely US dollars. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:47 | 6848093 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Meet a guy in a dark alley. My advice? Bring a pistol:

https://localbitcoins.com/country/VE

 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:00 | 6848383 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

"If you can't, it's because it is too valuable and no-one wants to sell it to you for your shitty currency."

Or maybe those people know it's a scam and run away... 

 

 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:33 | 6848046 mijev
mijev's picture

"So all bitheads, how do you buy bitcoin in Argentina? Or Venezuela? "

I was in argentina and colombia last year and it's the same as anywhere else. You use an exchange online or do a local bitcoin transaction in a coffeeshop. Great way to get to meet the locals. In the video he explains how he sent money from california to his friend in Argentina and the transaction took a few minutes which was how he got interested in bitcoins in the first place.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:37 | 6848058 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Oh wow, he'll be able to get enough money out of the country to buy a cup of coffee.  Wheeeeeee, he's rich.  

HOW do you use an "exchange online" if you DON'T HAVE HARD CURRENCY.  Which exchanges will accept Argentinian Pesos for international bitcoin?  (not local bitcoin) 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:44 | 6848083 mijev
mijev's picture

Argentina has a bunch of exchanges but for local people trying to buy bitcoins the 7-11 approach is probably easier. I don't speak spanish well enough to ask the how they buy online.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitpagos-brings-bitcoin-8000-convenience-stores-...

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 09:52 | 6849117 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

No, because venezuelan currency is worthless out of Venezuela. Quite worthless inside as well. No one wants it.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 09:56 | 6849110 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

"Great way to meet the locals"

Turns out im one of the locals. Wanna meet me? Thought so.

The locals will take you to the bush, rape and set you on fire while shooting at you. Thanks for the dollars gringo.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 16:11 | 6850311 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Living under the rule of a repressive state does tend to make people angry and desperate.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 06:02 | 6848901 Szabotoshi Nickamoto
Szabotoshi Nickamoto's picture

The street venders sell it, like they do dollars.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:23 | 6848008 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"...bitcoin will inevitably see substantial appreciation..."

Against fucking what!?

You're valuing it based on the central banks (and their co-conspirators...governments) counterfeiting fiat! 

WTF!?!?

Where is the original Tyler talking about digitized pallets of currency sitting in the ether to balance the VERY REAL ENORMOUS FUCKING NATIONAL DEBTS and how is BitShit any different from that in any tangible sense?

There is none.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:34 | 6848051 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How can you STILL be so ignorant?

There is no central issuing authority for bitcoin.  Pay some fucking attention, you are starting to look like a fucking Jew confetti shill faggot cocksucker.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:32 | 6848108 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

That's right, there is no issuing authority.  Just like there's zero backing, and there's almost zero liquidity.  When you want to SELL your bitcoin, the ONLY liquidity is someone who might want to buy your bitcoin for hard currency.

That's why a couple weeks ago when it went to $500, everyone went to "cash in" and it instantly crashed back to $300. Lots of people wanting to SELL bitcoin, but not many wanting to BUY bitcoin at $500. 

 

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 01:06 | 6848656 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

No, your statement is plain flat out false.

Bitcoin can be sold for cash, converted to a bank deposit, used to buy gold, go shopping online, etc.
It is liquid.

There are some valid criticisms of Bitcoin, but what you say isn't one of them. Educate yourself about Bitcoin first, buy $1 worth and try using it, then you can make informed comments.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 14:46 | 6849980 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

You really are a moron.   There are NO CASH RESERVES backing bitcoin.  The ONLY cash you can get OUT of bitcoin is when someone else puts cash IN. 

That system can break down in an instant, all that has to happen is people stop puting cash INTO bitcoin (buying it)

Tell us, how then do you get your cash out? 

Mon, 11/30/2015 - 03:21 | 6855420 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

forget about "cash" you stupid pathetic loser.

i don't want any "cash" when i can get gold

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:52 | 6848159 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And you are starting to sound like those fucking scammer's Satoshi & dark pools of soros T-Boi.

YOU pay some fucking attention...SOMETHING-CREATED-BITCOIN...(yes or fucking no?) now what "authority" do you think that was?...knowing what you know now about ALL governments wanting to do away with ANYTHING physical?

It's not my problem that you're a greedy fiat bastard up to your tits trading back & forth (in THEIR MARKETS) from fiat to BitShit hoping to retire on fiat by scamming unsuspecting people, you're perfectly free to show your ass any way you want.

But never...ever...expect me to kiss it you fucking asshole.

///////

And now that I've had a chance to fume and think about what you said, you're actually a pretty vile cocksucker aren't you? 

Bitch you're mine.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:55 | 6848362 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

Hater.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:55 | 6848363 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Something created gold too you fucking moron.

Pull your head out of your ass or don't. You'll die either way. You'll just have less to give to your kids one way.

It's not my problem that you're a greedy fiat bastard up to your tits trading back & forth (in THEIR MARKETS) from fiat to BitShit hoping to retire on fiat by scamming unsuspecting people, you're perfectly free to show your ass any way you want.

I like how you have to make up shit to criticize me just like you have to make up shit to criticize crypto. You are completely pathetic and don't understand anything that you own.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:45 | 6848520 laisla
laisla's picture

You are funny and got balls tmos, i remember you here a few yrs ago telling Bob dabolina how retarded he was because he was calling for $28 silver when it was trading in the 40's. Who's the retard now and pls dont look in the mirror.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 00:06 | 6848560 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I was going to mention his pumping silver like some horny poodle on Bernankes-fiat leg but I thought it irrelevant to readers of ZH along with him pumping any other fiat manipulation to come down the pike.

If you don't know who and what he is by now (a fucking grifter) he will come back as a new internet persona for your "investing" pleasure.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 01:08 | 6848659 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"If he disagrees with me he's an $badthing."

Ok.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 18:40 | 6849074 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, lets start out the conversation with calling anyone & everyone ignorant who disagrees with you followed by "Pay some fucking attention, you are starting to look like a fucking Jew confetti shill faggot cocksucker." and then claim your SafePlace victimhood status among the Idiocracy with "he's a $badthing".

Right.

Now that we're all alone, just how many $'s have you lost holding this POS from $1,000 to $300 or have you gone long at $300 and just pumping this shit before you dump it? 

dark pools of soros admitted it...do you have "his integrity" to admit the same?

//////

I guess not, grifter.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 01:12 | 6848668 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Nice lie, faggot. I argued with that faggot, who I suspect is actually YOU because he shat all over silver as a long term investment.

I am on record since late 2010 BEFORE the big rise from $20 to $49, that silver would of necessity pass through $0 before it reached its ultimate value of $REF. I said it several times, then silver went up, and I was happy to be wrong for a while, then faggot trolls shat all over me as if I had never made the original prediction, which made anyone who followed it MILLIONS by now (ie I said the best trade was short paper, long physical, ie be a hedged coin shop).

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 01:39 | 6848704 laisla
laisla's picture

Short  papers long phys? How'd that work out for you Obama? Opp meant tmosley. Lol

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 06:04 | 6848905 Szabotoshi Nickamoto
Szabotoshi Nickamoto's picture

Do you worry Thomas Edison will turn off your light bulbs? he did invent them after all.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 16:13 | 6850319 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

tmosley, "I prefer contemplative and thoughtful comments, even if I agree with your conclusions."

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:39 | 6848067 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Well It already took a huge dump on the silver price when it smashed through that a couple of years ago and it's gonna take an even bigger dump on gold at some point. The Future , what a BTChhhh. The ZH Flat Earth brigade have been calling the death of BTC for the last 4 years now ,,,,,

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:53 | 6848097 Wow72
Wow72's picture

Bitcoin aside...I dont even want to get into why silver is one of the best investments long term.. You should look into the potential of silver.  Its more unique than people value/price it to be. Its finite and could run out in the near futue.  If its not already more rare than gold than it will be sooner than later.  It is desired for more uses than any other metal and it has remarkable healing properties.  Silver is really something if you look at it.  More than meets the eye and its taken for granted.  Silver and Gold are being manupulated by our "fair" government.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:00 | 6848146 Itsthetiming
Itsthetiming's picture

Stop talking shit.

There's more silver in weight out there than can be comprehended.

Save your argument for another 15 years and the. You might be onto something .

But hey buy your silver and watch it generate jack shit for the next 15 years.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:19 | 6848227 Wow72
Wow72's picture

Not sure where you guys come from but its obvious your on the other side.  Silver will do better than you think it will.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:28 | 6848264 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

No, it won't.   Because only 50% of silver is used industrially, that leaves a LOT of silver floating around doing nothing but sitting.     IF the price goes up?  That stored silver will come back into the market. 

It's happened before, it will happen again. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:41 | 6848287 Wow72
Wow72's picture

The difference is there is only about 10 to 15 yrs left of all silver and reserves are down Ive put all the stats up so many times Im not doing it again. It will come back at higher prices, believe me my silver is very comfortable where no one will be accessing it for some time? Get my drift? Its base money or wealth, its supposed to collect dust.  Who cares if the current price is nothing... Its physical presence is value.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:58 | 6848375 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Your "stats" are just as credible as the "stats" in the 1970's that said there was only 5 years left of oil on the planet before it all ran out.

How did all those predictions pan out?  Hhahahahahahaha

 

Why don't you go to the PDAC conference sometime.  Among other things, it's the biggest market in the world for people selling new claims and discoveries to mining companies and mine developers.  There's NO SHORTAGE OF SILVER for hundreds of years.

Besides, the vast majority of silver doesn't come from silver mines.  It's a byproduct/coproduct of copper, tin, zinc, and lead mining.  

 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:10 | 6848417 Wow72
Wow72's picture

Your Quote:  "There's NO SHORTAGE OF SILVER for hundreds of years."

Here we go again.... If I have to post this shit again.

I would love to see your stats on that.. Here is an estimate:  http://www.visualcapitalist.com/forecast-when-well-run-out-of-each-metal/

 

Here is the demand for the last 10 years, there has been less silver produced than used for the last 9 out of 10 years.  This means our reserves are being used up.. It is estimated there is already less above ground silver than gold? https://www.silverinstitute.org/site/supply-demand/

 Pay attention to net deficit? WTF People are just fucking stupid when its sitting right there in front of u?

 

Where is the back up to your bullshit?  If copper mines start shutting down?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:17 | 6848438 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

If copper mines start shutting down?

And what happens when those copper mines start up again?  Oh, right, you didn't think that far ahead. 

You obvioulsy know SFA about mineral economics.  Go ahead, believe in your fairy tales and pretty graphs.  What you don't realize is the SAME types of graphs were made 40 years ago, that said we would run out of all those things TODAY.  (just like my example of oil running out).  .

In another 40 years, they will update those same graphs to show there's ANOTHER 40 years of supply. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:20 | 6848453 tmosley
tmosley's picture

And what happens when those copper mines start up again?

That would imply that the economy has started growing again.  Yeah, it's hard to think that far ahead. Long time until that happens, given the current state of pols around the world. Or maybe really quick and violent. Here's hoping my silver becomes worthless.  That is actually a literal jack off fantasy for me with all that that would imply. The fucking SINGULARITY.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 10:53 | 6848463 Wow72
Wow72's picture

Silver is a by-product of copper mines amoung other things and production will go further down while if you look at supply demand above...its only going to slow down so much...A least I have something to go on? you?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:26 | 6848255 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Most on here are too young to remember.   When Nelson Bunker Hunt tried to corner the silver market in the late 70's, buy buying it all up, he ran into a HUGE problem.   As soon as the price went up to $40++/oz, equal to what?  a hundred or so dollars an oz today?    The supply of silver coming into the market was massive.   It collapsed when they ran out of money to keep buying silver.  After that, the price collapsed, becase nobody was supporting the price. 

 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:40 | 6848311 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Some remember: How do you create a small fortune in Texas? Do like the Hunt brothers did and start with a large one.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:43 | 6848320 Wow72
Wow72's picture

The difference is we are really getting close to the end.. I blink and 10 years goes by? WTF? its going to run out.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:11 | 6848423 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Like I said, your predictions are just as valid as those from the 70's that said there was only 5 or 10 years of oil left.

Tell us, when's oil going to run out?  A LOT sooner than silver. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:13 | 6848435 GRDguy
GRDguy's picture

Anopheles:  Here's a better explanation:  They simply changed the rules in the middle of the game, like they do today.

But on January 7, 1980, in response to the Hunts' accumulation, the exchange rules regarding leverage were changed, whenCOMEX adopted "Silver Rule 7" placing heavy restrictions on the purchase of commodities on margin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Thursday


Sat, 11/28/2015 - 00:05 | 6848557 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

I know.  It crashed when the Hunt's didn't have enough money/credit to cover their $156 million (or therebouts) margin call, and defaulted. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:23 | 6848461 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Also helps to have all the exchanges change the rules on you with no warning.  There used to be a spot market for US silver coinage. That ended when the Fed destroyed the Hunts. Which market will be the next to die?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:57 | 6848371 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"Out there" meaning in asteroids, which won't come in to production for at least 15 years, far beyond the expiration date of the current system.

No, silver is a fine investment. That is why 99% of my wealth is in it. But I understand it, like I understand bitcoin, which makes up my other 1%.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:08 | 6848153 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

You guys have been brainwashed by the likes of Chris Duane and all the silver pumper dealers. Do some real research  you will see that silver can be replaced by alloys , ceramics and other metals which are more expensive than silver which is why they are not used today. But if the price of silver did do a moonshot you will very quickly see other materials come in to replace it which would drop the price. It's a pipedream to think silver will come back as money. The world is going cashless , it's way too expensive to store , transport , verify it's purity and secure. Great in the days of the sailing ship but in today's world it's next to useless. Try making a payment in bullion for an aircraft turbine located 7000 miles away where you need the part the next morning and you may get the idea , the metal mght get there by next Friday if your lucky , then it's gotta be verified for purity , weight , and have security , transport and customs duties and levies paid before it can be released. You imagine global trade could be powered like this ? Dream On.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:18 | 6848215 Wow72
Wow72's picture

None of that matters.. There are plenty of things that only silver can be used for and as for alloys, metals like zinc are running out totally.. its going to be interesting.  If you had any clue what silver really is you would understand, but you dont get that its really very rare and certain people will need it.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:25 | 6848246 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Read the whole post.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:51 | 6848272 Wow72
Wow72's picture

One of the reasons I like silver so much is because its not as easy to convert although more liquid than most any other asset on the planet.. In other words I dont need all my money on a hair trigger.. Personally for me its  a good thing.  Sure Ill want some on a hair trigger, but typically its much easier to spend? is that the point?  When its in my Hand I know its mine. 

My base money or the base of my wealth.  It literally creates a rock solid base...Just like John Exters pyramid..  Most "Good" money managers including Ray Dalio recommend 10% gold? I happen to really like silver because of its uses and the fact it gets used up? I cant believe people have such a hard time following this idea its investing 101?  Some days I have a hard time figuring out what planet I ended up on here?

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 09:39 | 6849099 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

I used silver bars as a down payment on a used van, and, I'm using more silver to finance part of the purchase.

Does that count?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:55 | 6848361 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

I could wear 10k$ worth of gold out of China on my wrist. That much sliver and my manservant would have to help me with my suitcase.

Silver will crash right along with the other white metals as the industries that use them go into recession.

The advantage of silver is that its price is supported by 'investors' and industry.

The disadvantage of silver is that half of the demand could vanish in bad times.

Gold on the other hand has only one use... as a monetary metal. That one use will increase as faith in currencies dies.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:19 | 6848224 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Platinum is already starting to be replaced with MUCH cheaper alloys that behave the same, in things like catalytic converters. 

Silver is cheap, and as you say, it's not worth replacing it right now.  But if the price goes up?  Then it WILL be replaced. 

Just like a couple years ago when copper was very expensive, I started to see wiring what was copper coated aluminum instead of solid copper.  

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:36 | 6848292 gcjohns1971
gcjohns1971's picture

You miss the conceptual difference between currency and money.

Before you decide with which currency to pay you should look into Gresham's Law.

The highest quality money is not what you use to pay for things...it is what you don't, but could.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:23 | 6848016 Ms No
Ms No's picture

It's worth it to have a little Bitcoin for short to medium term.  You may lose some money but if rockets like it did back when we all poopood it and people got crazy rich of small amounts we will have missed out.  Besides, if that happens ever again you can sell Bitcoin and buy gold.  It doesn't hurt to have a little.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:00 | 6848379 Scooby Dooby Doo
Scooby Dooby Doo's picture

Careful, DoChungsBearings committed suicide because of this.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:25 | 6848023 Stanley Lord
Stanley Lord's picture

   Saw Wences at the Grant's Seminar at the Plaza back in October, (along with Stanley Druckenmiller who said gold at $1080 was done going down for the intermediate term) made a nice, but unconvincing presentation, says Bitcoin will one day go to $1M per Bitcoin.

  First question from the audience "how you do know there is not a backdoor written in?" Wence's answer, "play Bitcoin like you play the lottery"

 

 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:51 | 6848107 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

To your point:

 

The unnverving part of Bitcoin is its digital; nothing in the digital realm is completely safe from tampering, even if said secrets are secured with state of the art hardware-based security (although smart cards do employ such technology and are nearly bulletproof). If the secret is valuable enough (and control of a world's money supply is), it will be compromised.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:12 | 6848428 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

the only 'money' that's NOT digital at this point are PMs and some paper fiat.  you should be more unnerved by the amount of your personal wealth you haven't converted into paper fiat, PMs, or other hard asset, because that wealth represented by ones and zeroes is a hell of a lot less secure than any which might be represented by bitcoin ones & zeroes.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 06:13 | 6848911 Szabotoshi Nickamoto
Szabotoshi Nickamoto's picture

Bitcoin itself has no secrets. The secrets are the individual wallet keys, which are stored by each bitcoin owner in various different ways. There's no central point to attack in bitcoin, that's the point.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 09:23 | 6849083 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

They can personally attack you.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 16:23 | 6850349 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

They can, but they can do that to get at anything. If you keep your crypto stash in a multi-sig vault with a built-in time delay for withdrawls, they'll have to be pretty commited to pull it off though, especially if one of the keys for the multi-sig is held by people with lots of guns.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 17:11 | 6850489 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

So its your guns against their guns?

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 18:41 | 6850797 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

It could be, but it doesn't have to be. With a multi-sig 'vault' you can add as many co-signers as you're comfortable with, in as many different places as you'd like, and that in itself makes your funds difficult to attack (but also more difficult for you to access). There's no such thing as perfect security, all security is really just about making theft more risky or time consuming, but bitcoin does a pretty good job of giving you those options even without the guns. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:26 | 6848028 Czar of Defenes...
Czar of Defenestration's picture

Bitcoin = the  perfect "money" when REAL CURRENCY doesn't matter anymore (and there are, like, NEVER any internet-control or EMP problems...).

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:41 | 6848070 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

BitCoin - a chance for you to try to convince someone, someplace, that you really used to own 'something'!

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:31 | 6848474 ersatz007
ersatz007's picture

for all the folks worried about EMP or 'internet control' issues - do you think your debit card is going to work?  think your bank will be open to make a withdrawal of paper fiat? again, if we are hit with an EMP capable of wiping out bitcoin holdings around the globe, then we probably have some much bigger issues to worry about than 'money'.  besides, ANY and ALL wealth that you didn't convert into cold hard cash, PMs or other meaningful asset BEFORE the EMP will be POOF, gone.........

 

 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:41 | 6848071 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

my problem (just one of many) is that Bitcoin (cryptos) requires you to have a;

computer, $

internet access, $/mo.

and power supply. $/mo.

2/3 of the nessecary platform to engage in Bitcoin

are not controlled by you. at all.

whereas PM's just sit there,

lookin' all pretty 'n' such, even with the power out.

best yet, waterproof.

 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:48 | 6848095 rapetrain
rapetrain's picture

Why would you have a problem with it? Real people with real things to do need a way to pay for services, often across the globe. BitCoin is a fantastic implementation. Surely not the last. You can even buy amazon, home depot, cinema, etc., gift cards with it

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:49 | 6848099 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Actually you can interract with the bitcoin blockchain with a 15 dollar pay as you go cellphone and a solar panel , 5/6th of the world's population now have a cellphone , solar chargers are available for peanuts and can be shared. BTC has a much lower barrier to entry than PM's do.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:19 | 6848228 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

iOS -> breadwallet

Android -> Mycelium

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:59 | 6848377 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Kindle and solar panel solve the $/month all on theri own, nevermind free wifi/charging stations.

Another argument bites the dust.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:46 | 6848090 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Is anyone foolish enough to believe that BitCoin servers will not be located and seized by the governments around the world under the guise that 'terrorists' may be using BitCoin?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:59 | 6848143 Buster Cherry
Buster Cherry's picture

Shit, what about if a rat chews thru a cable somewhere?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:13 | 6848200 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Governments don't even have to do that.   They simply say to banks and exchanges that it's illegal to buy or sell bitcoin.  

That leaves people to exchange their bitcoin in back alleys....  Probably the same guy who's also selling dope. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:20 | 6848233 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

"BitCoin servers", LOL.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:54 | 6848342 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

There's a company called 21 that's making cheap bitcoin miners based on the very cheap Raspberry Pi platform. Eventually, they'd like to embed mining chips into anything that uses electricicty and can make use of the waste heat - like water heaters. Mining is already distributed all over the world, and if efforts like 21's succeed, it will become even more so.

A few governments might try to do what you're imagining, but not all of them will, and bitcoin miners can move to where the cheap power and friendly governments are. And even if all of them were taken out, new ones would come on line. Miners use specialized ASIC chips, but if those computers all disappeared tomorrow, people could just load the software onto laptops or GPU's, and mine bitcoin that way, like they did four or five years ago.

The network periodically adjusts the hashing difficulty to the available computing power that's mining, so the Bitcoin network would just keep on chugging along.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:00 | 6848385 tmosley
tmosley's picture

We've got Ted Stevens here. Everyone give a hand ot Ted Stevens, Senator from Alaska. Ted "Series of Tubes" Stevens, knows all there is to know about them internets and bitcoins.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 16:26 | 6848431 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Just as long as Iceland doesn't "tip over" from the weight of all the miners sucking down that cheap hydrothermal energy, I think we'll be okay.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 06:14 | 6848913 Szabotoshi Nickamoto
Szabotoshi Nickamoto's picture

There are no bitcoin servers.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:54 | 6848116 Itsthetiming
Itsthetiming's picture

Only idiots would think Bitcoin is worth anything. It's worthless. I might as well create 22 billion codes and say "no more" and we all play bullshit.

However most people are idiots, ergo Bitcoin WILL rise in value because idiots think it's worth something.

The smart ones will cash out and Bitcoin will crash leaving idiots with losses.

Bitcoin is t even a fiat currency - it's garbage.

When people want value they will put their money where it generates cash. Gold and Bitcoin don't.

Bitcoin belongs on the China stock exchange because it's value - like Chinese stocks isn't based on fundamentals but the whims of...idiots .

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:27 | 6848258 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

The free market seems to think otherwise ....

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:38 | 6848300 Itsthetiming
Itsthetiming's picture

You're wrong. Idiots think it's great.

Goldman Sachs of up Morgan could buy all the Bitcoin in the world tomorrow and they don't.

And when they won't even enter a small market to route it, you know it's really shit.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 00:47 | 6848374 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Not at these prices, they can't. You understand how supply and demand effect price, right? The supply is capped, so big increases in demand - like an open order for all existing bitcoin, would spike the prices to the point where that would be unaffordable (and illogical - a currency that's only owned by one entity has a pretty small value).

There are also a number of people who hold bitcoin for philosophical reasons as well as financial (which is true of gold and silver holders as well), and they're not likely to sell the bulk of their stash until the prices are much, much higher.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:15 | 6848394 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Proof you know nothing about bitcoin. If the banks started buying up all the bitcoin tomorrow it would create a short squeeze and it's price would moonshot , they can buy 1 from me for 1 million dollars , that's my price , take it or leave it. You can bet your left nut the banks and institutions are buying it slowly and in small amounts so they don't moonshot the price. This market now truly is BTFD.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:02 | 6848393 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Replace "bitcoin" with "gold" then kill yourself for being so fucking ignorant yet preaching like you know a single thing about which you speak.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 21:55 | 6848125 Buster Cherry
Buster Cherry's picture
[First Man:] I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think.

[Establishment:] Of course you are my bright little star,
I've miles
And miles
Of files
Pretty files of your forefather's fruit
and now to suit our
great computer,
You're magnetic ink.

[First Man:] I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.

[Inner Man:] There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles
And piles
Of trials
With smiles.
It riles them to believe
that you perceive
the web they weave
And keep on thinking free.
Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:04 | 6848160 Itsthetiming
Itsthetiming's picture

I wish to point out ZH wants us to take advice from a guy who has been repeatedly screwed.

Thanks.

Guess his Bitcoin options came due and he needs some dickheads to buy it up so he gets his money back yeah?

Fuck off.

And ZH, why you bothering with this garbage?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:14 | 6848204 Spiritof42
Spiritof42's picture

Gold and silver are simple to understand. They are indestructible. They are portable. Physical possession gives you full control. They have a long historical record. They offer privacy like no other asset. I'll stay with what I know.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:23 | 6848241 Itsthetiming
Itsthetiming's picture

Yeah true, but things have changed.

Gold is gold. It's value is dropping partly because if we all went back to gold there's nothing backing the gold - it has little use in industrial applications versus other metals.

Technically there are other metals that ARE useful that have actually true value more so than gold and silver (although silver is more used than gold so it's pretty good).

Palladium, platinum, rhodium and other rare or metals that are vital to some industrial applications would be far better than gold.

This may actually happen one day, and I suspect some hoarding is going on with these metals.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:06 | 6848412 Spiritof42
Spiritof42's picture

I went all the way with silver because of its commercial value.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:33 | 6848488 kev the bev
kev the bev's picture

You`re a fuckin idiot and I can`t believe i`m replying to such an idiotic/stupid post. I`ve never heard such a lot of bollox in my life. You`re almost as stupid as this retarded reporter, shes only slightly more retarded (if that`s possible) than you because she made the same claim on TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiXIs3bbETA

With idiots like you it`s not even worth entering into logical disscussion.

Please, don`t have children.

 

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 01:08 | 6848660 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Actually, he's right and you're the idiot.  

The only thing "backing" gold is the 12% used industrially, then there's the 88% that's ONLY backed by sentiment, desire and greed.   No different than tulip bulbs. 

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:18 | 6848220 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

I still prefer gold.www.bitgold.com just got its 500,000 th customer

and you need to substitute "bitcoin" for "tulip"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Tulip mania or tulipomania (Dutch names include: tulpenmanie, tulpomanie, tulpenwoede, tulpengekte and bollengekte) was a period in the Dutch Golden Age during which contract prices for bulbs of the recently introduced tulip reached extraordinarily high levels and then suddenly collapsed.

At the peak of tulip mania, in March 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble (or economic bubble), although some researchers have noted that the Kipper- und Wipperzeit episode in 1619–22, a Europe-wide chain of debasement of the metal content of coins to fund warfare, featured mania-like similarities to a bubble. The term "tulip mania" is now often used metaphorically to refer to any large economic bubble (when asset prices deviate from intrinsic values)

And four hundredth speculative bubble for "first recorded speculative bubble"

I think you can eat tulip bulbs though :)

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:24 | 6848245 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Tulips can be reproduced indefinitely. Do you see what's the problem with your claim?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:17 | 6848411 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

And they're also not durable or divisible. People who bring up tulip bubbles are advertising that they don't really know anything about Bitcoin.

It's not that bitcoin doesn't experience price bubbles - it does. That's normal for any new and speculative investment. The difference is what happens *after* each bubble pops. Bitcoin has survived multiple bubble-like price appreciation cycles, and it just keeps on going with more and more transactions happening every day.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:44 | 6848512 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

not sure whats to stop people mining bitcoin using 8GL computers until the scam is fully perpetrated, then up the limit as is done with fiat money, then have someone forge bitcoin clearing systems or offer another ten thousand alternative crypto currencies..

better the fiat currency you know that you cant trust, than the fiat currency that is subject to the whims of individuals and thefts by others (ncluding overnments) where no crime is committed, because the wealth did not exist in the first place...

i will stick to gold for a ten year view of another gain of a few hundred percent in any currency over the next ten years, plus multiple thousand years of proven demand in any economic environment

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 00:40 | 6848613 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

What's an 8GL computer? Mining is distributed, and any change to the code would have to be supported by a consensus of the developers, the miners, and the end users. And since that consensus making process is very visible, any attempt to do something like what you suggest would just create an unpopular hard fork in the Bitcoin code base. End users would vote with their market behavior, and the price of the miner manipulated fork would crash, while the value of the non-forked bitcoins would increase.

Remember, horses were popular for transportation for thousands of years too - until we invented a better option. Cryptocurrencies are just a better idea for how to do the currency/store of value thing. Satoshi is to legacy stores of wealth as Ford was to the horse-drawn carriage.

Both of their innovations allow us to get rid of a lot of horse shit that we used to have to tolerate.

Just because something has been valuable for a very long time, that doesn't mean it will retain that value when something better comes along.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 00:54 | 6848637 Anopheles
Anopheles's picture

Mining is distributed? HAhahahahahaha. All you need is a quantum computer and you will have 100% of all mining, instantly. 

As it is, one outfit has recently exceeded 50% of all mining.  If they complete the calcs before someone else, they get the coin/reward and the other miners are shut out, regardless of of how much "effort" they put into their incomplete calculations.  

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 01:49 | 6848699 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

If quantum computing does ever threaten proof of work, developer, miner, and end user consensus can (and will, because it's in their self interest) fork the code to use a different type of proof of work algo that can't be exploited by them. Quantum computers are just computers, they aren't magical 'solve every type of problem instantly' machines.

Some crypto currencies already use proof of work algo's that can't be more quickly solved by GPU's or ASIC's, so this is a 'problem' that developers already have a lot of experience with.

There are a few large pools in China that together control more than 50% of the hash-power, but they'll never shut out other miners, because the correct solutions to the proof of work are arrived at by random trial (lots of random trials, performed at an amazingly fast rate). So you can expect those pools to collect about half of the rewards, as they should, since they represent about half of the power on the network, but everyone else will (and does) get their share also.

If you want to collect 100% of the rewards, then you have to control 100% of the hash-power on the network (or be very, very lucky).

Any other misconceptions I can help clear up? This has been kind of fun.

Bitcoin isn't perfect, but its weak points tend to coincide with the places where humans are involved - like developer decision-making and exchange/bank security. Thing is, fiat currencies are made up of nothing but human intervention, and they don't work very well over generational time-spans, so minimizing those points of human influence seems like a good idea to me.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 09:15 | 6849077 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

And bitcoin works over generations?

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 16:38 | 6850381 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

It won't be debased over generational time scales like fiat is. Once the supply hits 21 million, no new coins will enter circulation. Governments have been debasing and collapsing currencies for thousands of years - even back when most money was minted precious metals.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 17:10 | 6850486 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

There a finite supply of original manuscripts by Leonardo DaVinci. Maybe we could cut them up and use as script.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 18:47 | 6850819 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

I suppose you could if you could come up with a way to easily and quickly verify that very small fragments weren't counterfeits. But why bother, when crypto's are available?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:45 | 6848516 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

black tulips cant, and neither can tulip bulbs have infinite supply without satsifying demand.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 00:44 | 6848626 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

But they're not durable, divisible, or particularly scarce, so they're not money. They are probably tough to counterfeit though. 

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 08:59 | 6849055 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

Bitcoin can be reproduced by creating new forms of bitcoin. Such as Dogecoin.

http://dogecoin.com/

 

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 16:39 | 6850385 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

Only it has "REPRODUCTION" or "COPYCAT" written all over it. It's clear which is which.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 16:41 | 6850392 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

That's like saying you can create more USD by printing more GBP, or by printing your own "Benjamins." Dogecoin isn't Bitcoin. Each alt coin has its own valuation, arrived at by market based price discovery.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 17:34 | 6850481 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

And why would a bitcoin be more valuable than a dogecoin? These are all backed by encryption, no? Well encryption is not a scarce resource.

The issue here is that you look as money as a form of information, and then all that matters is to secure the information. But fiat monet isnt just information, it is violent control. The violence is key.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 18:59 | 6850847 BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Market based price discovery. Dogecoin and Bitcoin are similar in that they're both currencies based on cryptography and the blockchain, but Dogecoin isn't capped, and there are already a lot more of them than there will ever be of bitcoin, so the market has decided to give each one different relative values. There's a really scarce coin called Unobtanium, which is capped at 250,000 units, iirc - but like Dogecoin, it also trades at a fraction of the value of Bitcoin because the wisdom of the market says it does (based on various reasons, not worth going into here). That wisdom may change at some point, but welcome to the market - that's how things work.

You can have a marketplace or you can have a queue. One implies freedom of choice, and the other implies control.

I like freedom, don't you?

Of course debt based fiat is about violence and control. There are two ways I can think of to get someone to clean a fast-food restaurant bathroom for a living. The first is to litterally hold a gun to their head, and the second is to set up an economy where the choice for a particular economic class of people is to clean the bathroom or starve. Economic force is less expensive than physical force, so that's why it's come to be the preferred model of enslavement over the past few centuries.

But slavery in any form is less efficient than freedom, so over the long-run, my expectation is that freedom will win.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:33 | 6848278 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

We will look for all sorts of ways to skip over the reality of the situation, and the mindset of those who jump at play money is the same mindset that got us here.

You are in fact dangerous...

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:33 | 6848282 Itsthetiming
Itsthetiming's picture

Well put.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:33 | 6848280 GRDguy
GRDguy's picture

I'd really like to know what it is that makes Argentina such an easy, repetitive target for financial sociopaths. It is that the people are that naive, or is it that they're kept under the thumbs of each goverment they "elect," or what?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:35 | 6848288 Itsthetiming
Itsthetiming's picture

We have bad governments , Argentina have governments you can openly buy.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:48 | 6848339 GRDguy
GRDguy's picture

Good point. Perhaps the whole country is like Bridgeport, CONnecticut.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-27/dirty-connecticut-mayor-sentenc...

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:33 | 6848281 exartizo
exartizo's picture

The Central Banks look at digital currencies as toys to play with or destroy at their collective whims.

Nothing more.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 22:43 | 6848321 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Bitcoin has its place and uses, like anything else.  It's not complicated. Even a Caveman gets it.  But not half the ZH population, it seems.

Ever notice that the Crypto-currencies crowd has no problem with PM, but that many in the PM crowd just can't handle anything other than PM?

Look, as long as a growing number of people use any Asset or Medium other than fiat currency, they are helping the Parallel/Libertarian Economy. Many gold bugs just don't get that.

"The enemy of my enemy is my ally. For now" -Kirk

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:02 | 6848391 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"It's not complicated"

No, Kirk, it's very complicated.

"Ever notice that the Crypto-currencies crowd has no problem with PM, but that many in the PM crowd just can't handle anything other than PM?"

It's complicated most by too many of you who deduce the game into such an argument, with reckless disregard for the underlying forces in play.

"The enemy of my enemy is my ally. For now" -Kirk

Get off your high horse, Kirk... the greatest enemy is ignorance.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:07 | 6848414 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It's complicated most by too many of you who deduce the game into such an argument, with reckless disregard for the underlying forces in play.

I'm certain you have a deep and thorough understanding of all those forces since you and your ilk can't even tell the fucking difference between bitcoin and fiat currency.

You should automatically discard LITERALLY EVERYTHING that anyone who makes that statement has to say about ANYTHING. They are fucking stupid and talking out of their cum drizzling assholes.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:21 | 6848454 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

No, I can very much tell the difference between bitcoin and fiat currency.

One is a pipe dream pretending to circumvent control, the other is a manifestation of control.

The only assholes involved are those who pretend a way out.

I know you to be animated... you a pretender too?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:25 | 6848466 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"No, I can very much tell the difference between bitcoin and fiat currency."

Pop quiz hotshot. What's the difference?

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:41 | 6848503 kev the bev
kev the bev's picture

You can wipe your ass on fiat currency!

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 01:15 | 6848671 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Try wiping your ass with the 1s and 0s in your bank account.

Try again.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 08:56 | 6849054 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

Bitcoin is also a bunch of 1s and 0s. Fiat is backed with violence. Violence always wins.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 11:42 | 6849396 crazytechnician
crazytechnician's picture

Tell that to the scientsist and engineers who cracked the enigma codes. In that case a bunch of 1's and 0's destroyed the entire Naazi war machine.

Sat, 11/28/2015 - 12:51 | 6849589 Benjamin123
Benjamin123's picture

Ill just point at the obvious and say that science and mathematics are great multipliers of violence. Everyone knows a warrior backed by a scientist fights better than a warrior alone, but it is the violence at the end, and not the science, what ultimately wins.

Fri, 11/27/2015 - 23:21 | 6848433 Wow72
Wow72's picture

Your Quote: "Ever notice that the Crypto-currencies crowd has no problem with PM, but that many in the PM crowd just can't handle anything other than PM?"

I was thinking exactly the opposite? I actually bought bitcoin even though I hate it?  I wasnt a PM guy till I started looking at this market? When you realize your standing in a hall of mirrors, gold looks good! These guys think silver is a bad investment? Its real fucking money? Its not bad to have some?  To even compare the two is complete bullshit.. If people want bitcoin to be succesful dont compare it to gold, its not even close.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!