Oregon Standoff: A Terrible Plan That We Might Be Stuck With
Submitted by Brandon Smith via Alt-Market.com,
Well, there is whole host of things wrong with this situation, which is why I never supported or endorsed "Operation Hammond Freedom" to begin with. There is a lot of misinformation out there at this time on the debacle in Oregon, and certain alternative media outlets seem to be conveniently overlooking particular facts. I suspect that some people in the movement simply want to "kick it off" (a second American revolution), and they don't care if the circumstances of that kick-off are favorable or terrible (I realize "favorable" is relative, but starting this fight from a much stronger position is more than possible). This attitude was prevalent among some at Bundy Ranch, as certain groups refused to dig in positions for a real fight in the hopes that they would be "martyred" for the cause. This, in case you were wondering, is idiotic.
Oath Keepers including founder Stewart Rhodes was the only organization to predict how Ammon Bundy's vague calls for action on the part of the Hammond Family would actually play out. They received a lot of ignorant attacks in response, and yet, they were absolutely right.
Ammon, apparently trying to recreate what cannot be recreated, is looking for another Bundy Ranch stand-off. First, I would point out that such events can't be artificially fabricated. They have to happen in an organic way. Whenever a group of people attempt to engineer a revolutionary moment, even if their underlying motivations are righteous, it usually ends up kicking them in the ass (Fort Sumter is a good example). Ammon's wingmen appear to be Blaine Cooper aka Stanley Blaine Hicks (a convicted felon), and Ryan Payne (who claimed falsely during the Bundy Ranch standoff that he was an Army Ranger and who worked diligently to cause divisions between involved parties on the ground). This was the first sign that nothing good was going to come from the Hammond protest.
I have watched extensive video from the event in Oregon and am privy to accounts from participants. From the information at my disposal, it would appear that Ammon and team did NOT make clear their intentions to occupy the federal wildlife refuge building except to a select few, inviting protesters to "take a hard stand" without revealing what this would entail until they were already in the middle of it all. OPSEC? No, I think not. Obviously the goal was to lure as many protesters to Oregon as possible to the event in the hopes that they would jump on board with the stand-off plan once they were more personally involved. Numerous protesters were rightly enraged once they discovered the ultimate motives behind the event.
The plan is basically this - use the Hammond family as a vehicle (yes, this is what is being done) even though they did not want any kind of standoff to result and specifically refused aid. Occupy federally owned buildings which have little to do with anything of importance and have no symbolic power as did Bundy Ranch. Elicit federal response. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Bundy Ranch had many positive elements going for it, which is why it ended the way it did. This standoff has none of the same elements. I suppose one could ask, though, why do I care?
It's true, these people have every right to make positively naive strategic errors and I don't have to participate directly if I don't like it. The problem, however, is that Ammon and friends have decided they want to be the "tip of the spear" (his words, not mine). I do not think they understand what this means, or they don't care. What it means is, even though I think the entire Oregon plan is ill conceived; literally the WORST possible way to launch a fight against federal corruption, if the federal government moves in a heavy handed manner to kill these people, I and many others will have to fight as well by default when a FAR better tactical and social position could have been achieved. My conscience simply will not allow the rationalization of the deaths of liberty minded people even if their stupidity brought about the circumstances. And frankly, that pisses me off.
As a student of asymmetrics, I understand that choosing the time, place and circumstances is 95% of the battle ahead against an advanced opponent. More organization is needed. More preparedness. More training. More public awareness. The Oregon standoff could steal away what little time we had left.
The Oregon standoff potentially forces the hand of the Liberty Movement, not the hand of corrupt government - the exact reverse of what should be happening.
Mike Vanderboegh has outlined similar thoughts expertly in this article. Everything he has written is exactly what was going through my own mind when I heard of the happenings in Oregon. Ammon Bundy and companions are not the tip of the spear. Not even close. What I do fear is that they are cannon fodder beckoning a nationwide government crackdown to which I and others will then be forced to personally respond to with equal f*cking measure. And all of this on the worst possible terms and at a very inconvenient time (executive actions on gun control mere weeks from now).
And here's the best part; those of us who remain critical of the clinically retarded maneuver being executed here are going to be called cowards and "keyboard warriors"; it's a given. We are all ready to fight for the future of this country, we have been training diligently for it and helping many others along the way. But, because we do not support two dimensional planning there are those that will say - "Now we find out who the real patriots are!"
Against stupid plan = coward against freedom and action. Just watch.
If the Feds use brutality to handle the Oregon conflict, it will indeed "kick-off". There wont be any way to stop it. Just don't get too excited, folks. This is no Lexington or Concord. I really don't know what to call it...
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Really would you condemn a child to a life knowing what is coming?
Thinks people who are angry are on crazy pills. Really?
Have you taken a look at what is happening to the working and middle class in this country
since the manufacturing base was outsourced? Not everyone can be a stock broker brother!
Go marry a China Doll, bet you already have.
1 in 4 'merican cunts are on crazy pills.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1098023
And what is coming!?
I cannot see the future, but have read the protocols of zion. Have you?
And I have zero kids, and would never marry a stuck up dragon woman chi-com.
Thats disgusting.
Dude WTF is wrong with you? Do you hate women so badly cus none of them will have sex with you?
'Merican women are beautiful garbage like their mothers
I am thinking of Ukraine.
http://youtu.be/UzWHE32IxUc
5 weeks and 6 days. You are a newby agitator. A troll. You offer nothing of substance in your posts. Why are you here? Are getting a little stir crazy in that basement?
Dude... you just linked 90's hack lenny fucking kravitz?! really?!
~ Not looking for any credibility around here, are you?
Great comments Diogenes. Women are totally fucked up in this country. Why would anyone marry one? I married an Asian, they're easier to get along with, they look better, they fuck better, they're easy to keep skinny, and they make good (non-entitled) mothers. That'll do me.
"Great comments Diogenes. Women are totally fucked up in this country. Why would anyone marry one? I married an Asian, they're easier to get along with, they look better, they fuck better, they're easy to keep skinny, and they make good (non-entitled) mothers. That'll do me."
Asian chicks are more feminine than any other race of female.
Very forgiving and kind.
I ate one out one time, and after unscrewing the top of my penis from the shaft, whilst coaxing the semen out, with muscles I didn't know existed in her vagina, gave me some mouthwash.
(Sex with asian chicks is no joke man, they learn how to control over their vaginas)
I rest my case.
China Dolls who are unaware of who you are. You seek them because they don't know you
are OUR losers. Weak males who fail in their own culture.
thanks
Actually I have banged Koreans not Chinese.
I have had all types of females come on to me.
But 'merican women are garbage.
You cunts on here prove my point.
Yeah, you're probably right, Dakota. That would be why so many successful men in the US marry Asian women. And why you fat white chicks just NEVER get pissed off about it.
Nah, you lose Dakota. Can you cook? When I wuz single, every guy I knew was a good cook. Of the women I knew....only Asians. One (fat, white and bitter) chick told me she refused to cook as a political statement. Congratulations on cutting off your fucking nose, your face is duly pissed off. It was a good way to nail Asians, actually, cook them a decent meal.
But we're just a bunch of losers. That's why we're so unhappy.
They age horribly though.
White women are angry mostly because they find out way too late that feminism is a pack of lies and that being a good mother and wife is a million times more fulfilling than being a career woman and consumer.
S.B.
Two thumbs up!
BT
Problem is, they cant admit they were wrong. thus the anger.
Were I the brother of your wife, I would beat the dog shit out of you, and maybe just disappear you into a local bayou.
You may hate Americans, but Americans hate wife-beaters more than just about anything. Watch your back, fuckstick.
"
Were I the brother of your wife, I would beat the dog shit out of you, and maybe just disappear you into a local bayou.
You may hate Americans, but Americans hate wife-beaters more than just about anything. Watch your back, fuckstick."
You said it. American men are spineless pussies who fight in bullshit wars and let women control the country.
You are part of the problem.
I bet you are a cuckhold christian.
@ Chris Dakota If I'm not mistaken you just indirectly told U.S. men to own up to their responsibility and part of the failed marriage. You also seemed to indirectly compare them to a big group of abused housewives and their husbands (U.S. government) they refuse to divorce is repeatedly beating them to a pulp and you're telling them to get a divorce. Bless the females on ZH.
I'd like to see you and HonestAnn work over a crowd of U.S. men. You'd put them to shame. Show them what it means to have some cahones.
However, IMHO. No violence. Not needed or necessary. It can all be done lawfully with the right support. And violence would only serve the globalist criminals and their agenda. I have bent over backwards to give them every opportunity to surrender.
Thank you for being wise enough to understand my metaphor.
Women: We see the underlying influences and we are able to see in the dark by the light of the moon.
Which is why we are the perfect mate for the male Sun warrior.
When he fails, we pick up the sword to protect our home.
That is exactly what is occurring right now.
Forgive me for being deep, but I have an exalted Moon 4th that is very deep, intuitive and standing at the door to my cave at every hour.
The latest greatest says "The brains of men and women aren’t really that different"
http://news.sciencemag.org/brain-behavior/2015/11/brains-men-and-women-aren-t-really-different-study-finds
An old study done long ago found that women are just as likely to commit domestic abuse as men - 50/50. The police just made it a policy to always arrest the male period.
http://time.com/2921491/hope-solo-women-violence/
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/19133-women-more-likely-to-commit-domestic-violence-studies-show
http://jezebel.com/5509717/domestic-violence-are-women-as-abusive-as-men
http://www.mediaradar.org/research.php
http://www.zurinstitute.com/female_clinicalupdate.html
I have been attacked by a girlfiriend before. She became pregnant and wanted to abort it. I wanted the child and argued passionately against an abortion. I used every type of argument. I begged, I demanded, Ithreated to leave and finally in desperation I shamed her. Well she didnt like feeling guilty about killing our baby and punched me strait in the face hard without warning.
Women wanted equality you have it from me. Next girl punches me in the face will get a taste of equal alright.
For the record I have never struck a woman - Not even my ex when I caught her cheating red handed ..when it would have been understood if not kosher. My life expeirence is in direct opposition to your uh feelings. Women will lie, cheat, steal and initiate violence. Many destroy their husbands and kids too just to get more money. Divorce is the new "job" for to many American woman no matter the cost to "loved ones".
Would it really surprise anyone if women were really bigger abusers than men? I mean think about it. If I could rob a bank knowning 100% my ex would take the blame. The man cant even say anything without being ridiculed. Hmmmm sounds like the perfect crime. The victim wont speak about it and if he did HE would go to jail.
Oh I forgot. Afterward tmosley will come attack too because he believes women are inferior and helpless well if he can spare the time from saving the females fighting ISIS/Turkey/Saudi/US/ad frikin nauseum.
Can we talk about something besides punching pregnant chicks right now. Our country is collapsing and shit storm is picking up.
That is so wrong.
Men's and women's brains are in FACT physiologically different, but that's fine.
If you read the book "LEFT BRAIN, RIGHT BRAIN" (that I read in the 90s), you'd learn about the similarities and differences. Interesting and cool, how Nature had us evolve in COMPLEMENTARY fashion.
The Alamo. In the basement.
"I have no idea if these guys are legit or just another psyop."
That is going to be hard to determine with this one. If it is legit you will have disinfo everywhere saying that it is an op. The MSMs handling of it should be a tell. After watching the ISIS and mass shooting pattern all this time, it should reveal itself in a similar fashion. If this isn't an op expect one involving "home growns" shortly due to the gun legislation.
The timing is the most suspicious part of this really.
Oh really, Sully?
Glad to hear you're posting this from your mobile on your way to support them!
What a fucking joke this fiasco is. No plan, no strategy. Gives TPTB more fuel to take away guns, and restrict freedoms. This is no substantative rebellion. It's a stupid publicity stunt. I'm just surprised they haven't been smacked down already. Goes to show how seriously they're being taken, ROFL.
"Gives TPTB more fuel to take away guns, and restrict freedoms"
As if they arent going to do that anyway.
http://www.thenational.ae/uae/a-closer-look-at-the-fire-damage-sustained...
Pull it baby
Why is that tower still standing ? With all that furniture burnt it should have been rubble by now...
when the brutality starts it will be hard to stop
Trump should get in on it...
" I really don't know what to call it..." A "clusterfuck" would be a good start.
Beginning of the end, THANK GOD !!!!!!!
If the family does not want help leave them alone. They have a right to deal with their problems,,, their way. We may not understand or agree with their motives but it's their business. I agree with Oathkeepers on this one.
Go away, crawl into a hole and eat a dick you mo-ron.
Are you a cunt woman or a clueless man with a vagina?
I cannot figure it out.
You mean the hole you crawled out of? Another 5 weeks and change guy.
Who the fuck are you? And who told all you assholes this was a good place to spew your vitriolic nonsense?
All I read from your ignorant posts is plain stupidity.
From the biography GhostOfDiogenes "Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anyones' feelings"
ah ha ha I love ZH trolls.
Here's one of those non-thinking, reflexive, emotional believe vs reason chumps that I spoke of in my prior post.
"Here's one of those non-thinking, reflexive, emotional believe vs reason chumps that I spoke of in my prior post. "
Ah yes. Makes sense.
The borg collective.
I think I have pissed one of them off.
They attack in groups like cowards.
This has nothing to do with this borg and everything to do with you just being another useless internet asshole.
"Ohh yeah, but you're one too!".?
That is the emotional and reflexive response that I am talking about.
I down voted the rest of you comments ghost , but this one your right on. This guy is a pussy.
I see a trend with your posts. You REALLY despise women. Are you a militant gay?
I think none of them will fuck him.
"I think"
I highly doubt that.
"
I see a trend with your posts. You REALLY despise women. Are you a militant gay?"
Nope. Millitant misogynist, I think thats what the feminists call me.
It comes from long experience dealing with dumb evil jezebel cunts.
The US pumps them out like it is going out of style.
You mean like a conveyor belt?
Snipers on every other rooftop/advantage point, the most disenchanted with a terminal illness packed full of explosives walking into all the popular bankster, .Gov, lobbyist eateries/ private clubs in DC, Manhattan; suicide IPO ventures. Group funding to support families left behind.
Let's be serious there is never a Right Time and the inaction breeds an even greater contempt from these twisted sociopaths.
It's a fact of life, if you give the bully an inch, he'll stick 3 up your ass the next day.
For every smart cookie we need 100 Taliban Freedom Fighters
Waaaarrrrrrrrrriors come out to PlllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaY .
Strangest thing, though, even the most useless creature in the 'soft underbelly' of the Western World seeks a long , albeit, miserable Shelf Life; and therein lies the crux.
In a way the family has little to do with this. It all about the govt charging regular people as terrorists for common low level crimes. If the Hammonds want to be left alone fine. But the govt needs to be called out on its complete bullshit before speeding becomes a terrorist act. Obviously there has been waaaaayyyy to much creep in this law already! Accidentally starting a little fire in buttfuck nowhere is defintely a terrorist act. They have been convicted already for terrorism and are going to jail for the sentencing phase. WTF
When I was a kid I accidentally started a fire in the woods behind my house with fireworks. The fire dept put it out easy. Am I a terrorist too?